#210 - Is this Gold’s Gym Innovator the Architect of the Health and Fitness Craze in America?

Speaker A: They were, you know, uh, injecting, uh, just a ridiculous amount of, uh, you know, synthetic chemicals into their body. And you really don't think that that caused everything from heart disease to organ failure to cancer to. No. I mean. Really? Yeah, really.

Speaker B: I. Wow. Yeah, back. Back then, you know, uh, steroids were legal back then. I mean, they were, they were on the training table.

Speaker A: Yeah, but, so, but heroin was legal. Heroin was legal and sold in Sears and Robok. I mean, so. I mean, so.

Speaker B: But, uh, but I mean, they, you know, they were, they were taking steroids under doctor supervision. Your. But your body is naturally.

Speaker A: Those guys weren't taking steroids under a doctor's supervision.

Speaker B: Yes, they. Yes, they were. I knew the doctors.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: All right, I'll give you some books to read.

Speaker A: Uh, see, again, so I knew I'd lose this debate. All right. For me, success is continuing to fulfill my potential. So it's always something I'm looking toward,

Speaker B: not something I've achieved. To me, success is doing something that you love to do that allows you to be of service to others and

Speaker A: it gives you a sense of fulfillment in your heart.

Speaker C: I think I chased success so much that I put happiness on hold for 20 years. And now I realize if I put happiness first, the success chases me.

Speaker B: Success is being able to have the control of your day to day, of your life, of having a freedom, financial independence.

Speaker A: If you're doing it on your own schedule, that's success.

Speaker C: In essence, the fulfillment of knowing that you've done your best is my definition of success.

Speaker A: This is the Alden Report. Foreign.

Speaker C: I'm super excited about our latest program. Look, we've been on television for close to 20 years, literally selling hundreds of millions of dollars worth of products and services that have had a positive impact on people's lives. We've created millionaires. If you've ever watched television, you've most likely seen me on television. Not dressed like this, but in a suit and a tie. Listen, we've re engineered the process. We're allowing people, a small group of people, whether you're an author, whether you're a business coach, whether you're an entrepreneur, whether you have a program or service that you feel as though that can have a positive impact on people's lives and you want to uplevel your game. You know, you're tired of what's going on on social media. You're tired of AI is not kicking in. You're tired of all the money that you're spent and you're not seeing any return. You're tired of all these fraudsters out there that tell you they're going to put you in Huffington Post or USA Today or Forbes and it's nothing just but a joke. You want to be in front of millions of people every single day all over the country. Folks, we've been doing it for 20 years. We've re engineered the process. We've made it possible for the average everyday person to participate in this. If you want to uplevel your game, if you truly want to build your profile, if you truly want to get in front of millions of people every single day, send me a direct message. Ike Alden. See it on the bottom of the screen at Michael. Put TV in the message and I will get back to you personally and see if you're a good fit for us. Again, send me a direct message at Mike Alden. Send me the message tv and we'll see if you're a good fit.

Speaker A: This is the Alden Report. All right, well, my name is Mike Alden. We are here in Blue Bay Studios. Almost pulled my microphone off the stand.

Speaker C: That's okay.

Speaker A: I got my 99 cent glasses and I'm, uh, rocking the shirt that from a visual standpoint for cameras, it might be a little wacky, but I really don't care because it's an XL and I haven't worn an XL and I don't know how long. I'm super excited for my next s. My next guest is literally, um, I would call, I don't know, he calls himself this, but he is one of the pioneers in the entire fitness industry. And that's a pretty broad statement. It's a pretty big thing to say. But he is also one of the founders of the iconic Gold Gym. He's also the author of the book, the three muscle tears, the Story of Gold's Gym, the birth of an industry and how and how fitness culture was reshaped worldwide. There it is. He's holding it up right now. His name is Ed Connors. Ed, thanks so much for being here, man. I'm excited to have you on Foreign.

Speaker B: It's good to be here, Mike. Thank you.

Speaker A: So, uh, we met, uh, uh, I don't know, about six months ago through a friend of mine, Greg Como, who, uh, is, um, uh, you know, he's a bodybuilder, competed in a bunch of shows, uh, you're really kind of been in around an industry. He's worked with some of the, you know, biggest celebrities in the world and training them and things like that. And he introduced me to you and your book. And I was just blown away by one, like what you've done, uh, in the industry. And then now that I know you, because we've talked, you know, offline before, I didn't realize kind of like, you know, how big of a deal you really are, man. Like, you really are an icon in, in the, in what is now an industry that, who knows? Like, I don't know that you would have seen it when you, when you started, uh, you know, 30, 40 years ago. Um, but you are, you're like the guy, you know, I mean, like, tell us, tell us about how did you get involved in the whole fitness industry because you're also an architect. Um, we'll talk a little bit about that. But what was the beginnings of you getting involved in, in the fitness industry?

Speaker B: I was a fat kid growing up in Omaha, Nebraska. And uh, uh, I knew I was going to be. I went off to Berkeley, UC Berkeley to school, and I knew I was going to be drafted for Vietnam. So I joined a gym, uh, to lose weight. I was 250 pounds at 5:11. And uh, ah, so that was my first experience with, you know, you know, joining a, what was back then a jackal lane European health spa. And it was a very, it was a bad experience. And I think in the back of my mind I, I must have thought if ever I had a chance to change this, I would. And um, ironically or uh, several, you know, years later, I was uh, able to do that by. I opened up the first gym franchise in America 43 years ago. Ah.

Speaker A: And that was what? Jim Gold's Gym. Uh, and that gym still stands today, right? I mean there's still are, there's still Gold's gyms all over the world still, right? I mean it's not as big as what it used to be, but they still exist, right?

Speaker B: Well, actually there, there are more gyms overseas now than there are in the US there are uh, 680 Gold's gyms worldwide. 400 of them are overseas. Uh, we have a hundred and over, 100 in Japan, over 100 in India right now. So I didn't start Gold's Gym. That was Joe Gold in 1965, but my two partners and I bought it in 1979. And a, uh, year after, a year and a half after we bought it, I opened up the first franchise. It was a, it was called a license at the time, but it was the first franchise licensed gym in America.

Speaker A: And you know, when, you know, I watch like documentaries like Pumping Iron and I think of like Venice beach and kind of the origins of like, you know, Arnold and Ferrigno and some of these guys that, that I know, um, I don't know a ton of guys in the bodybuilding space, but those guys, you know, that people, I think a lot of, you know, everybody knows Arnold, but those guys were training at Gold's Gym, right? This is, that was like their mecca. Right.

Speaker B: Well, that's, that's how different the world was back then. Uh, Arnold Schwarzenegger 50 years ago, had to go from Graz, Austria to Venice, California to get a workout. You know, now, now there are gyms, you know, every, in every mile in urban America. There are probably a half dozen choices at least before the pandemic. So, yeah, it was a completely different world. I mean that, that movie, I Contend, Pumping Iron and uh, Weeder and Gold's Gym transformed fitness in America. We made it popular, it became a thing. We changed the culture really.

Speaker A: Um, I think too, when people think of, you know, so when I was a kid, I used to work out at a World's Gym, uh, here, uh, uh, I don't know the history between the two. Maybe we can get into that. But I remember, you know, being at working out at a World gym versus working out at like a health club here in my town is a, literally just a, It's a cultural. Just the disparity is just, it's just night and day. Um, World's Gym, you had, you know, bodybuilders, uh, you had power lifters. Um, you know, they were, uh, I've learned this term, there were guys running gear, which means they were doing steroids and stuff. Um, but it was just a different, it was a different environment. And I gotta be honest, it was kind of a scary environment early on, uh, for you, uh, in kind of growing out the Golds franchise, was it, was it hard and difficult to, um. Because fitness today is a lot different than it was then. Was it hard to, to, to get average, normal people into a Gold Gym even because of that documentary? Because when you watch that documentary you just see, you know, jacked up dudes lifting tons of weight, you know, half naked and um, but you didn't see just normal, average everyday people, you know, working out. Was it, was it, was there, Was there a hard, um, kind of. Was it hard to market that? I guess is what I was getting, what I'm getting at.

Speaker B: That was somewhat of a challenge. Uh, we were, um, uh, you know, you could be intimidated or you could be inspired walking into in a Gold's Gym I think the Gold Gym, Venice was amazing because it became such a family that I think people always, no matter where they were coming from, they felt comfortable in that environment. We had a lot of celebrities training at the gym, uh, mixing with bodybuild, hardcore bodybuilders, big guys. And uh, but we, we were, you know, we were always conscious of that stigma and we, we were, you know, we did everything we could to include more uh, people including you know, we basically women. We were the, we, we ah, had the first women's bodybuilding contest back in, in 1979. And uh, we brought aerobics into the gym when it was failing to uh, stand by itself alone. Uh, Jane Fonda was a member of our gym. She was, she had a trainer but she pioneered women's aerobics and we brought it into the gyms and uh, we also brought bikes. When I bought Gold Gym with my two partners, there wasn't one bike in the gym. Cardio was non existent. So we brought that into the gym and uh, you know, we, we tried to uh, be on top of where it was going and, and recognize the new trends to get more people involved.

Speaker A: You know, a lot of people, um, you know, they hear the word visionary and I think some people, anybody who calls themselves a visionary, unless, unless they're someone like you, I think are, but you truly are a visionary. You uh, uh, you've seen trends and even now you're seeing trends. We're going to talk a little bit about kind of what you're doing and your um, journey now even you know, years later in um, trying to uh, and you are you know, changing even the current fitness industry, um, today. But back then, uh, when you know, you introduced cardio into the gym, um, was it, was uh, that like a big deal, you know, where people like, did they see these m. See. And the reason why I asked that question too is because like I remember being at the gym, I mean I'm 47, so I mean I didn't start really hitting gyms until like the like late 80s. And I do remember seeing like new equipment coming into the gym and like, and just staring at it and like not knowing what to do with it. But if, if there was no cardio in your gyms ever. And then all of a sudden you introduce bikes. How do you get people to do it? Because I don't know, they might. Do they feel different? Like how does that work?

Speaker B: Well, I think people saw uh, people, big guys riding bikes in the gym and they thought, well you know, this is Something that we should investigate. And initially we put the bikes on top of the maintenance shed in the uh, first room of Gulch and Venice, along, uh, with bikes, uh, on top of the restrooms in the room so that people could look down and sort of be entertained. I mean this was before bikes had TVs in front of them. This was, this was uh, the gym was entertainment. And so I think uh, the way we placed them actually was fortuitous because I think people would then go there to ride a bike and they would look down at what was going on in the gym floor and I think they would learn a lot about what, how to use various pieces of equipment. We pioneered a lot of uh, equipment lines. We, we would invite equipment companies into our gym to uh, try out their equipment. If we liked it, we kept it. If we didn't like it, we sent it back. Um, so it was a, that was a time, you know, the 80s were the beginning of major uh, equipment companies and, and they were uh, they were on the forefront of new ways to exercise and get results.

Speaker A: Again, we're on with Ed Connors, uh, truly a visionary and a pioneer in the fitness industry not only here in the United States, but worldwide. He's also the author of the best selling the Three Muscle Tears, the story of Gold's Gym, the birth of an Industry and how fitness culture was reshaped worldwide. And by the way, the fourth in the book is written by a guy that you may know, I think most people know, John Cena. We're going to talk a little bit about um, uh, how that happened and Ed's role in the trajectory of um, John Cena, which by the way, uh, I played football with and uh, um, uh, at Springfield College. So if you'd like some more information about Ed, you can just go to his website, which is edconnors.com uh, where you can pick up his book, uh, you can also pick up his book wherever books are available. But if you're in the fitness world, uh, if you're thinking about getting fit, which you should, uh, or if you're just interested in history and how one man, not just the only guy, but how he had an impact on an entire industry that is a trillion dollar industry worldwide. This guy was there from the very, very beginning. The story is super interesting. All of the, all of the big names that you have heard of, and I'll use Arnold Schwarzenegger because everybody knows and John Cena, Ed Connors, uh, is, is the guy that was behind it or, and, or in front of it and knows all these people as well. So go to edconnors.com um, it's ed c o n N O R S. So let's talk about some of the, like the, the celebrities you mentioned. Jane Fonda. Everybody knows Jane Fonda. I talk about Arnold. So when you're there in the early days, Venice beach, because that's where you mainly were, right? I mean I know Gold was everywhere. That was like your main kind of headquarters.

Speaker B: I spent half my life in Venice Beach. Yeah. So they, we, everyone calls it Venice. I think only out of staters call it Venice Beach.

Speaker A: Okay, well I'm out of stater. All right. Venice. Excuse me, I've been to Venice, Italy. Right?

Speaker B: Yeah, right, yeah.

Speaker A: Uh, and by the way, just on a side note, I tried to do the um, you know, outside of Venice beach or Venice, the uh, Gold Gym there, they have those, um, uh, what are those? They're like almost like swing sets. What are those things? They hold up the rings. Right. And I said, where you see the guys doing that? You don't realize how, how strong you actually have to be to do that. I almost tore my shoulder up trying to do that. But so, okay, so early on you get Jane Fonda, who was a celebrity then, Arnold was certainly a celebrity then. Um, but people walking through the doors like talk about some of the other people that maybe that the average everyday people would know, you know, like Franco Colombo or some of these other people that just walk through the door, your gym in and what your first impression was in some of your interactions. Because it's super interesting.

Speaker B: We had a lot of celebrity. Well, celebrity training all started with Jake Steinfeld. Body by Jake, who was working at the Universal, uh, studios in, in Universal City in the Valley in la. Uh, stars would come up to him and, and say, you know, how do you, how do you look like that? How do you get like that? What do you do? And he would invite them down to, you know, the Gold's gym to train. So I think, I mean that was when uh, personal training was born. This is, you know, in the early 1980s. Uh, Ted Turner, who was starting CNN back then, had uh, gave him a show called Body by Jake on his network, which really, uh, jump started his career. But I think a lot of people then got uh, into personal training. People would say there's no money in bodybuilding and there's not a lot and it's for a very limited few. But there are now tens of thousands of men and women all over America, uh, doing personal training. So obviously people looking at some of these bodies in the gym, they would say, well, my God, if you can do that to your body, what could you do to mine? So I think having a great physique was a, was a, a, uh, way of, you know, makes basically marketing yourself, getting attention. Uh, Jimmy Khan was probably one of my favorite, uh, members. Uh, he had a personal trainer, Rick Valenti, who was a house guest of mine. And, uh, uh, but all the actors were great. Um, you know, Jimmy Khan just died. Uh, Ray Liotta was a regular Keanu, uh, Reeves, M. Marky, uh, Mark, Mark Wahlberg, uh, Matt Damon, uh, all the, all the celebrities were, were nice. I mean, I think if you can't be a great celebrity in Hollywood, if you're a jerk or, you know, you

Speaker A: know, you hear about places, um, like Gold, um, where celebrities will come in, I think, even today. Um, but when someone like James Kahn walks in, you call him Jimmy, um, walks into the gym at that time. And at that time was probably, if I had to guess, you know, he probably, I don't know. But you know, it's kind of like the peak of his career, like when he was like a megastar, you know, he walks into the gym. How is he treated? Is everybody mobbing him or are they staring at him? They try. I mean, there was no camera phone, so no one's really taking pictures. Um, are they, are they going up to him? Are they just letting him do his thing?

Speaker B: We were, we were lucky, I mean, in fact, that all the years that I was one of the owners, there were no camera phones. That would be a nightmare to deal with. But I think that's what people really appreciate about Gold Zero. I guess because you're in la, uh, there's more respect for people's space and, uh, I don't remember any complaints from celebrities of being bothered. But I think they knew we gave all of them comp. Membership. So I think they understood that in exchange for a free membership, they perhaps would have to give some time to people who came up and pestered them for an autograph or a photo. And most of them actually love that. I mean, they like being recognized. And as long as you're not really intruding, uh, and whatever they're doing, I, mostly I, I, again, I don't remember one problem. And some of them, some of them, you know, I, I mean, I, I didn't watch a lot of TV or, or, uh, no, no, maybe the music scene, but I mean, I, I didn't even recognize, you know, half of them myself. But our front desk people would, and they would call me, you know, up or one of the managers and say, so and so's in the gym. 50 cents in the gym, you know, got, huh. Someone once told me, well, there's 50 cents. And I, I thought there was some money on the floor. I mean, yeah, pick it up. But our, our front desk staff was great and they would, they would signal, you know, get these people and we'd give them a membership. We, we gave away about 80 grand a month in free memberships and clothes. And that was our way of, we, it was kind of our way of being influencers or, you know, uh, getting influencers. Back in the day when there was no social media with the magazines made Gold's Gym and my house guests contributed to that. You know, if I could get, um, if I could get people wearing our clothes being shot in our gym, uh, and then published for free in the magazines, that was Golden. There was, you couldn't take, couldn't take a photo in Gold's Gym without seeing the logo and the name in the background.

Speaker A: That was, that was going to be my next question. You know, um, you're not only, uh, a great businessman, again, you're an architect as well. We'll talk about that a little bit. Um, but, um, you're a great marketer and, but I don't know, I don't really know, um, what impact. I mean, you just kind of touch upon it. But how important to you was, um, the apparel and the logo itself? Because it wasn't just, I, I, I, I have the vision of the classic kind of tank where, where it's just really thin in the back. And so you, it's almost like, it's almost like you're wearing nothing and it says Gold on the front. And, and I had one of those, you know, uh, when I was a kid. I probably shouldn't have worn it because I was probably, you know, it wasn't, I don't know. But, um, but I, but I had one and it was, and this is. Okay, so, you know, not that long ago, um, how important was the branding of the name Gold's Gym on other stuff. Uh, could you also directly attribute the growth of that, of the logo and its apparel line to the growth of the gym itself?

Speaker B: Undoubtedly more people have worn Gold Gym clothing than have trained in the gym. So the clothing was huge. In fact, I write in my book that, um, by the end of the 1980s, we were really a clothing company masquerading as a gym chain. And as you mentioned, you know, the, the tank tops were huge, uh, T shirts and sweats. But we had, we had some real winners there. We had, you know, we would see trends on Venice beach and like, baggy pants or fanny packs or cotton lycra shorts. Uh, and those became real successes for us and, and, uh, boosted our sales. In fact, I think the biggest mistake we ever made was to license it out because nobody did it better than ourselves. Uh, unfortunately, we outgrew our lines of credit with the bank. And we also, uh, back. Back then, there was really a shortage of T shirts. Everything was us made pretty much in the Southeast. There wasn't all the overseas production. There weren't, there weren't a lot of, uh, brand major brands like there are now. It's, it's just totally glutted. But, um, no, it was, it was, it was key to our success. So people were wearing the shirt from

Speaker A: a revenue standpoint before you guys license it out. Um, where did that stand, uh, as far as the revenue and the, and the clothing line versus, uh, the gyms themselves? Was it, was it close or was it. It was.

Speaker B: It wasn't. It wasn't even close. No. Uh, you know, the clothing was, um, the clothing was huge. I mean, we would buy a T shirt screen for 225, sell it to our gym owners for 450, and they would sell it for 995. So everybody, Keystone, everybody made money.

Speaker A: So you're saying. So just. All clear. So, so the clothing and the apparel was bigger than the actual gym business itself, right?

Speaker B: For us, it was, yes.

Speaker A: Um, so competitors, uh, the next one that comes to mind is World's Gym.

Speaker C: I don't know.

Speaker A: The, the timing of Worlds was world's first before Gold, but, um, you know, to me it reminds me of, you know, burger King and McDonald's. Um, you, you would have, uh, you know, not exactly the same, but you'd have, you know, kind of two similar, um, cultures or two similar concepts. Um, when did goals have a real impact? Uh, I mean. Excuse me. Did Worlds have a real impact on goals?

Speaker B: Well, the fact that you're saying Worlds, Jim, and not World Gym shows you how people would confuse the two. Um, Joe Gold started gold gym in 1965, but then he sold it in 1970. He was only an owner for five years. He was emergency man, a Korean War veteran. He went out, uh, to the sea again, and then came back and regretted having sold his business and his name. So he opened up World Gym, and Arnold had trained, uh, at the Original Gold's Gym that he started and had fond memories. That's the one you see in Pumping Iron. So uh, Joe came up with the name World Gym when they, he had a gorilla, um, on their logo rather than um, the, the bald headed man. So Arnold, uh, trained, was very loyal to Joe Gold and trained there all the time. He, he would still occasionally go to Gold's Gym but you know, he wanted to go back to his roots. Arnold was, I would say, very loyal and that's where Franco Colombo and others from the movie Pumping Iron would train. But when he died in 04, he, he had 600 members. We had, we had 12, 000. So it was a whole different setup. His gym was more like a private club. Ours was for everybody. I mean our, our motto was serious fitness for everybody.

Speaker A: Um, thanks for uh, thanks for embarrassing me, Ed. You know, you're the first guy that's ever embarrassed me. But yeah, I said I, I, I vote Mark. Did you, I gotta wait. Didn't you always consider it worlds, Mark? I always thought it was with an

Speaker B: S. You're not alone. Everybody, everybody says World's Gym. Okay.

Speaker A: All right. Okay. So I'm not the only one. Okay, good. All right. Okay.

Speaker B: Because that just shows you how. I mean people would swear to me they'd been in a Gold's Gym and in fact I would have to prove them no they'd gone to a World's Gym. But our, our models were very similar. In fact they copied. I don't think Joe could have had such a tight clubish, uh, atmosphere in Vet in Venice if, if we, he hadn't copied our franchise program. So uh, they had several hundred World Gym franchises which allowed him to uh, basically not worry about membership in his, his facility in, in la.

Speaker A: So I have a ton of questions uh, for you about, about it. You know, I've, you know, I've been working out, you know, pretty, pretty much my whole life and have been to a lot of different gyms and seen the, seen the evolution of a lot of the gyms and I want to talk um, to you about, you know, the business of the gy. Uh, a moment again, again, we've been on with Ed Connors. Um, Ed, uh, is a visionary, in fact is, I don't know if he says it about himself. He probably doesn't because he's a humble guy. Um, he is a pioneer in the fitness industry. He's also the author of the Three Muscle Tears, um, the Story of Gold's Gym. You know, um, it's also The Forward was written by John Cena, which we'll get into as well. But this isn't necessarily just a book about the gym industry, uh, and the fitness industry. It's a book about building a brand, building a massive brand, building a worldwide brand and, and how, and how it's done. If you're interested in growing a brand, if you want to learn about, you know, what, you know, a guy like Ed and his partners have done, um, go to edconnors.com you can pick up the book there. You could also just pick up the book where, wherever books are available. Uh, the story is interesting and he's, and by the way, um, he's still active in, in, in, in this space. I think you were just Arnold Classic or, or the Olympia. I mean you were deputy. I think you're definitely there somewhere. And this guy's still out there doing it. He continues to do it years, years later. We're going to talk about uh, what he's doing now as well in, in, in the um, in this space. So the, the model itself. Right. Um, there's, there's. I mean, I don't know that it's changed too, too much as far as like the financial side of it, but generally you have a monthly membership, then also you have the people, you know, then you could. That some of these gyms did, uh, you know, the lifetime membership and I think that was a colossal failure for most of them. Um, then you know, you could have, you know, quarterly and things like that. So that part I kind of get. I think most people do. But um, what I've been told is, is ah, the juice bar. Right, the protein stuff. Um, talk about that. How important was that? Was there big margins, there were people making a lot of money there, or was that just, just a waste of time?

Speaker B: I never saw anyone making money in a juice bar. I, I uh, I didn't have them in any. I was involved in 37 separate gold franchises in seven states. And uh, we didn't have a juice bar. Well, we, my one in Portland tried selling coffee but that couldn't, that couldn't work. I mean we're not uh, we couldn't be Starbucks, I think because we uh, we didn't have the constant traffic flow. So I'm totally, uh, I would not recommend putting a juice bar in a gym.

Speaker A: Um, by the way, for those of you watching, I'm actually eating right now. I've never done this before. Um, the reason why I'm eating because I'm eating 97% lean beef I even told Ed what I'm doing. Um, but, uh, I'm on a bit of a fitness journey myself at 47 years old, having worked out my whole life. Um, so I'm on a schedule. I got to eat. So, um, Ed doesn't mind because he's, he's been dealing with us his whole life. Um, okay. The reason why I was also asking about the juice bar is, um, the other part of it, of what was in, uh, the. The juice, uh, uh, bars. Um, and I'm, I'm using juice as in, you know, real juice, not the juice that the guys are using to grow their muscles, but, um, the supplement industry. And, and, um, you know, the, The. The kind of. The proliferation of that early on. Tell me a little bit about that and what that was like for guys because, you know, now you can go to a convenience store and you can get muscle milk, um, you know, everywhere. But back then, there weren't GNCs.

Speaker B: There weren't.

Speaker A: There weren't stores like that. Really. The only place that I'm aware of, I think you could even buy that stuff would be a gym. So were you guys. Were you guys selling supplements? Were you selling protein? Was that a part of your business? And if the answer is no, that's fine. But, um, talk about the, The. The impact that the supplement industry had on the fitness industry.

Speaker B: Well, that was one of the biggest changes I've seen, uh, over the years. You know, back in the day, uh, Joe Weider's, uh, products were, Were probably the, the biggest line, and he, of course, he used his magazines to promote them. But back then, people need to understand that what was on the label necessarily wasn't. Was in the can. It didn't mix well and it didn't taste well. So it was a whole different world. Now there's incredible stuff over the counter. You can get it supplement stores. So no, it's, uh. That's changed tremendously in, in the past 45 years.

Speaker A: And did you ever get involved in that industry at all, uh, in your.

Speaker B: Um, we did, and we, we weren't. Well, we licensed that out too, like the clothing, which was probably another mistake. But, uh, we did get involved in it. But again, uh, getting, uh, production was, wasn't. It was difficult in those early days. We were kind of always ahead of the curve. Uh, I think had. Had the production sources, uh, been better, we would not have gotten out of that business. But, uh, getting product was. Was not easy. Uh, the supply lines weren't as, as good. Again, it was a whole new area. I mean there were no, there were no uh, you know, healthy health bars. There were, that was, you know, that was, that was non existent. There was. We, we actually pioneered having egg whites for sale in the gym. Uh, that was the one food product that we, we started with. Uh, but no, it's uh, um, I, but I had 20 some house guests who started supplement companies, probably did a billion dollars last year. So it takes, I think, somebody passionate, knowing uh, what they're doing about the product. And there are a lot of good fitness people today involved in that. That. It's, it's their particular insight and passion that makes, makes it work. We didn't have that. We were, we were too corporate I think by then.

Speaker A: Now you mentioned Joe Weider. Um, I believe he was the one that brought Arnold here from Austria. Um, Joe Weider was, I mean, was he kind of like the first guy that was really, that really, uh, made supplements big and nutrition big? Um, and I would say, yeah, I

Speaker B: would say in my book, I more or less say that Joe Weider, Arnold and Gold's Gym changed the culture. And I, I do believe that his magazines influence millions around the world. And of course they were, they had so much advertising in them, mainly for supplements, that they were considered at one point by the postal service to be a, uh, not a legitimate magazine, but an advertising flyer. So he actually had to increase the content in, in his magazines. But uh, no, I would, I would stand in the lobby at Gold's Gym Venice sometimes and ask people why, why were, why were they in our. Why were they coming to our gym? And the answer, you know, the majority was a, uh, Joe Weider magazine. They had seen someone on a cover or opened a magazine and read an article and got interested and they were visiting Southern California and they wanted to, they wanted to see Gold's Gym. We were, we were a big tourist attraction.

Speaker A: Um, and um, so the evolution of the, um, the actual training itself in the gym, you know, when, when people look at pumping iron, you see barbells, dumbbells, and you have like the early stages of like the universal machine where you're doing lat pull downs and stuff like that. But there, that was pretty much it. There wasn't really anything there. What was like the first, you had mentioned, um, you know, companies would test some of their products in there. But what was like the first breakthrough, um, uh, I guess, uh, line of machines or what have you, that you were like, whoa, this is different, this is changing things. And we're going to put these in our gym Was there one in particular, like, I think of like Nautilus or.

Speaker B: I would credit Nautilus as being a pioneer, sure. But actually Joe Gold and George Vipasik, a friend of his, built the equipment for the original Goldstein that you see in Pumping Iron. And I, I bought some of that for my first franchise in San Francisco. But, uh, there were only a. Carrying Inflex were two other companies that were new back then. But, uh, Nautilus was definitely pioneer. And they're still in the gyms. I mean, they're still around. Uh, that was Arthur Jones out of Florida and.

Speaker A: Okay, so let's jump ahead. I get, well, we'll jump around a little bit. But, um, now, you know, in the gyms, you know, you have the Nautilus machines, you have hammer strength, um, you know, you have all these different, you have now this, kettlebells are everywhere. All this other stuff, um, other than, other than Nautilus, um, and then now also you have this whole CrossFit industry. Everything, everything seems to be changing. I think you, I think you, I, I don't think you like the CrossFit, uh, industry because you and I think talked about this a little bit. Um, but, um, you know, I, I guess, I guess what I'm trying to get at is I, I, I see all these different things and I see all these different fads and trends. Like what is one thing that since the beginning of time, since you've been in the industry, that has remained the same and will always remain the same?

Speaker B: I think, I think walking, walking is great.

Speaker A: Is it?

Speaker B: I mean, uh, that's certainly a, one constant. I mean if you can work, if you can walk 10,000 steps a day, I mean you're doing, you're doing your body a lot of good. I think especially now with people sitting so much, they, When I was writing my book, I, I mean I spent probably eight hours a day for a year, but I then would go out walking for four hours to try and get 10,000 steps in at least maybe 20. So that, that actually probably relieved my potential back pain by, by that combination. So if you can't do anything else, just at least walk. And of course nowadays in a lot of cities you can't walk easily or the weather I'm in, I'm in Texas right now where they've had five months of 100 degree heat. So then you join a gym and start with the treadmill or then moved on to the trans, you know, one of the other machines. But, uh, I would, I would encourage people and that's why I don't like CrossFit. You know, it's intimidating people get hurt. It's a boon for chiropractors. Just start. Don't just jump into a gym with, you know, and start lifting weights. Uh, start walking.

Speaker A: Let's talk a little bit about the dark side of the bodybuilding world. Um, you know, steroids. Uh, right. So, um, I don't, I don't call

Speaker B: them so dark in my book. I, uh, I really believe. I mean, they are the fountain of youth for many. Um, and I write in my book that after now 45 years around this, I don't know anyone who I could legitimately say, honestly say was, Was, uh, hurt taking steroids. And, uh, it's the other things and, and, uh, that, you know, you. We all know about that, that people die from the, the fentanyl posing. Fentanyl right now is a huge killer because it's.

Speaker C: Wait a minute.

Speaker A: What about that guy there? Um, the football player for the Raiders?

Speaker B: Um, Lyle Ozato?

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: I believe he died from aids.

Speaker A: Oh, m. That makes sense. I mean, he was shooting, right?

Speaker B: Well, I grew up. Yeah, I grew up and, you know, I stood. My first gym in San Francisco happened to be the, the dawn of age in America, and I.

Speaker A: What about, what about the more recent one, Rich Pena?

Speaker B: Well, Rich probably died from, you know, some, Some form of synthol poisoning.

Speaker A: But you don't, but you don't think that he just overdid it and just, just, Just juiced himself up so much that, that he ultimately just caused organ failure?

Speaker B: You know, we, I don't think there's so many reasons why he might have died. I don't think we really know. But he lived life. I mean, I don't. He died, I think, around 46 years old, your age. But, um, I think so many people in America or the world, they'll. They'll die never having lived. That won't be Rich Piano. You know, God bless him. I mean, he, he inspired a lot of people. Like ultimate warrior. He died in his 50s. You know, was it steroids or was it his lifestyle? But I mean, his grandfather and his father died in their 50s, so I would call it genetics.

Speaker A: Well, okay, um, this, this. We're going to have a little debate here. I think so, uh, and I'll probably lose because you know better than me. But, but, but. So, okay, um, back then, I don't think. I'm pretty sure this didn't exist. So back then there was an hrt, hormone replacement therapy. There wasn't TRT where you can go to a doctor, and whether that. Whether that's good or bad, I'm not really sure, you know, because most doctors still, you know, but you could go under. Under the care of a doctor, and you can get. Because I did it, uh, ten years ago. Uh, I think I told you I was 38. My testosterone was at, like, 204. Um, and I just felt horrible. I went to a doctor, was on it for six months. Um. Ah. I didn't get jacked and big or anything like that, but it was done in a way that was basically just to get my testosterone to a point where I was essentially a man again. Right, but then you have the guys that were, in fact, at Gold's Gym and World Gym and all these other gyms were. They were, you know, uh, injecting, uh, just a ridiculous amount of, uh, you know, synthetic chemicals into their body. And you really don't think that that caused everything from heart disease to organ failure to cancer to. No. I mean. Really? Yeah, really.

Speaker B: I. Wow.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Back. Back then, you know, steroids were legal back then. I mean, they were. They were on the training team.

Speaker A: Yeah, but.

Speaker C: So.

Speaker A: But heroin was legal. Heroin was legal and sold in Sears and Roebuck. I mean, so. I mean, so.

Speaker C: But, uh.

Speaker B: But I mean, they, you know, they were. They were taking steroids under doctor supervision. You're. But your body is naturally.

Speaker A: Those guys weren't taking steroids under a doctor's supervision.

Speaker B: Oh, yes, they. Well, yes, they were. I knew the doctors.

Speaker A: Yeah, but. Okay, all right, okay, I'll give you.

Speaker B: I'll give you some books to read.

Speaker A: See, again, So I knew I'd lose this debate.

Speaker B: But So, I mean, I. It. It has gotten out of hand now nowadays.

Speaker A: Well, you think it's got out of hand now, or was it out of hand then?

Speaker B: Was not out of hand then. No. Well, because.

Speaker A: Okay, so. All right, so it was legal. Okay, so if it was legal then, uh. Because. I don't know, because I wasn't even alive. Uh, Well, I was 75. But, um, where were people getting the steroids?

Speaker B: Well, they. Again, it was legal.

Speaker A: I know, but where would they get it? And where do you. So back in. In the. In the 70s or 80s, I don't know, when they became illegal, where would you go and buy steroids? You just go to the pharmacy.

Speaker B: Oh, you'd have to go. You could go to a pharmacy in Tijuana. You could go to Mexico and. And get steroids down there if you didn't want to see a doctor. But, uh, there were doctors in LA who would prescribe steroids? Sure,

Speaker A: man. I don't know. I, you know, I think that's a, uh. By the way, this is going to be the highlight reel. Because we do a highlight reel, uh, of. Of this. Um, I, I think we go back. Like, I don't disagree with what you kind of said as far as it being, you know, the fountain of youth. I know that, you know, um, um, growth hormone is definitely that too. Um, okay, so let me ask you this question. Today I'm 18 years old, I have a shot at playing D1, right? But I know everyone else is going to do Winstrol, they're going to do Anadrol, they're going to do all these other things. Um, what should I do?

Speaker B: Well, first off, I would say that any teenager who's contemplating taking steroids should wait until at least they're 21 or 22. I mean, you've got to let your own natural, uh, your body produce naturally and get to that point. Your body stops growing at 21 or 22. So don't, don't do anything before that time. I mean, unfortunately, a lot of guys do, but. No, that would be my recommendation. Don't start until you're. Until later.

Speaker A: I'm looking at your backdrop, right? And, uh, for those watching, and there's a bunch of guys all, of course, with the gold gem, uh, attire on there. And if I had to guess, I'd say 90 of them, uh, were doing steroids. Is that, Is that accurate?

Speaker B: I would, I would say yes. Yeah.

Speaker A: Okay. And so. And um. And so if in, in of those people that are behind there, uh, today, uh, you again, you, you're. What you're saying is, is what you've said is, is that you're not aware of those guys or gals, uh, that had any sort of complications and died as a result of the steroid use. You think it was something else?

Speaker B: I can't, I can't honestly say that any one of them or the 535 house guests I've had, I can't. And 60 some have died. I can't honestly say that, that steroids caused their death. Um, in fact, the majority of the people I know that died, they died in car wrecks.

Speaker C: Do you think?

Speaker B: Um.

Speaker A: Okay, what are you. I know that you don't spend a ton of time on this, on your book, but I think it's just interesting because, um, you know, when you think about baseball, you know, uh, and you know, Mark McGuire and Barry Bonds and that was such A big deal. What are your thoughts on peds performance enhancing drugs in professional sports? Should we just legalize them? Should we legalize them to a certain degree? Should we regulate them? What are your thoughts on this? And then my next question is, um, did you do steroids? Uh, and if you did, what was your experience?

Speaker B: I've never done steroids because again, I don't have the genetics to be a great bodybuilder. I know I don't have it. I can see it in others, but I've never touched steroids. Uh, uh, you know, I'm just, I think I've got good. I mean, I'm 78 years old. My dad just died at 96. Again, I. So much is genetics. Uh, but no, I.

Speaker A: What are your thoughts on it as it relates to professional sports or even like the higher level, like D1 sports? Because let me tell you my opinion before you take. I played Division 2 football and uh, with John Cena. Um, and um, I mean, I don't know this for as a fact, so it's just my opinion, but I would say 80% of my team was doing some sort of steroids. And, and I wasn't. I was the big strong kid, period. But what I did notice and what frustrated me was I could not compete, uh, with those, with those kids, they're bigger, faster, stronger. It's not natural. Um, and, and in my, uh, opinion in that scenario, I, um, think it would be considered cheating, so to speak. But, but same time, I don't disagree with kids or guys, men and, or women now, that have a shot of going D1 and then becoming a professional athlete. Like, I, I get that in a way. Um, I get that risk. So what are your thoughts? Do you have an opinion on financing?

Speaker B: I disagree with women taking things that are not natural for females, uh, for the men. Why? Because it, it turns them into freaks.

Speaker A: Hold on a second. You hold on a second. So, uh, you know, Flex Wheeler or Ronnie Coleman or these guys, like, they're not freaks on stage, you know what I mean? You, you, your body naturally cannot be 330 pounds with 4% body fat. That's not, that's a freak. Yeah.

Speaker B: Ah, but for, I mean, for a woman, it's, it's being a freak. For a man, it's taking it to an extreme. Uh, and they become freaks. I mean, I don't, that's why I don't like the current state of bodybuilding, because it's too freakish. Yeah, Regular people, I want people, I want to see people on Stage who people can look at and say boy, that's incredible. I'd love to look like that or at least, you know, get healthier or better looking. It's so much about self esteem and that's the business. It's, we're in, we're, we're in the people business and people want to feel better about how they look and America is, you know, one of the most obese countries in the world. We've got a real major problem. So uh, if, if these people can be role models to, to get people, you know, working out or moving, so be it. But um, no, I, I can't really uh, uh, I can't really say that. That I don't, I can't say that it's good to have, you know, let's steroids, uh, loose in, in all sports, ah, activities. Um, I mean that's a philosophical uh, discussion that uh, I don't think I'm qualified to.

Speaker C: I.

Speaker A: Hold on. I think you're totally qualified but we actually, we don't have a, we don't have all day. But I, I just think it's interesting um, because you know, not only uh, not only are we talking about steroids but the, the evolution of the fitness industry, um, in addition to the training methodologies and the, the, the supplementation and how people eat and how people like again as I'm talking to you, I'm eating because I'm like, I'm on a schedule. Um, you know, I'm trying to be, you know, trying to follow a certain regiment. Um, I, I just think, I just think the whole, the whole, the whole, the whole thing is uh, is interesting in this, in the science behind it. Again, we've been on with Ed Connors. We went down a little bit of a rabbit hole with him. He probably didn't expect him. We're talking about steroids and things like that. But this guy is literally uh, he was there at the beginning, the beginning of an industry that's a multi trillion dollar industry that has affected people worldwide, that has changed people's lives worldwide. He is responsible, We're m going to get into that next for finding guys like John Cena. In fact, John Cena wrote the forward to his book and I want to, I'll give you a little bit of a spoiler alert but at the end of that, that uh, that forward, it said if it wasn't for Ed Connors they would not be John Cena. So if you'd like some more information about Ed, if you want to learn about the fitness industry, where it's been, where it's going and also what he's doing. And also if you want to learn about growing a brand new, uh, a worldwide brand and how to do it, and also the peaks and valleys and all the things that happens in between and all the characters as well, then uh, go to edconnors.com you can pick up his book, the, the Three Muscle Tears. It's also available, uh, where books are sold. Um, you know, I don't know that we've really had anybody that has had an impact on an industry as much as Ed has. And um, and I'll just tell you this, Ed, I was uh, so I'm training with a guy, um, so I didn't tell you this, we haven't talked in a while, but I decided at 47 that I'm going to compete in a men's physique show. And I was training with, with I, I got a coach now locally, uh, who's competed in Mr. Olympia. He's a PhD actually in physical therapy. And I said, hey, uh, do you know Ed Connors? Is like, of course I know Ed Connors and everybody that I know that's in this space, uh, knows exactly who you are. And there's a reason, there's a reason for that because of your impact on it and you've, you've had such a great impact on people. So um, uh, you know, the, the state of the industry now and uh, and where it is, um, what are your thoughts on the state of the industry and what are you doing now that you believe uh, is, is going to, to have a larger impact on the fitness world?

Speaker B: The pandemic. The pandemic has changed everything, especially in the fitness industry. I mean it's changing restaurants, movie theaters, you name it. And uh, before the pandemic, I would never have advised, encourage anyone to go say open a gym because it's a very different, it's a simple business, but a difficult business. But after the pandemic, uh, it's all changed and now it's possible. I think it's like back to the Future. Suddenly the smaller hardcore gyms, personal training gyms that were popular back in the early 80s are now, now working because rents are lower. People are afraid to go to big open spaces. The baby boomers are not coming back in quantity. So the whole fitness industry is different. I just came back from a two week trip to LA where I toured 64 gyms and I was shocked at what I saw. It was such a throwback to the past. And, uh, you know, many of them are just buying themselves a living or buying themselves a job, but some are going to make it. So in terms of traditional gyms, that's all changing. I personally am working on a gym using technology, uh, that would be more, uh, acceptable or friendly or familiar to, uh, millennials and Gen Z. So I would use technology. I don't. Right. Like in the past four years, I mean, the past year, four companies have come out with AI Assisted personal training for, with equipment. So, uh, there's all sorts of things that are happening in the technology, in technology that could really affect and create a better gym experience for the 80% of Americans that don't know what to do when they go into a gym. You know, you're, you're different. You are more like the, the guys in the 80s or nine early 90s, but people like you don't exist in any great number right now.

Speaker A: Well, listen, I mean, it's obvious. I mean, if you're looking right now, I mean, of course there are, there's only one me. Someone said that to me earlier. There's only one me. All right, let's get into some cool stuff. I know you don't have a ton of time. Um, okay. John Cena wrote the four to you book. You m. Mentioned, you know, some of your house guests. Before we get into the John Cena story, um, tell us about some of the, some of the people that have literally, you know, you had stay your home and their impact on the world and, and kind of who they are. You know, I know there's been a bunch of, like, celebrities, uh, not just fitness celebrities, but actual, you know, movie stars and things that, that have stayed with you. Tell us, Give us, give us some of the stories that are, that are in the book or maybe some of the stuff that's not in the book. Maybe the stuff, I don't know, maybe stuff that you haven't told. I want to hear some of these stories.

Speaker B: Well, I, I guess I would. I had a gift for seeing potential in people. Maybe it was my architectural background, but I, I could see like when I, when I met. Saw John Cena at Gold's Gym, he was out in spring break. He looked like Matt Damon or Mark Wahlberg, who had just been in our gym. And uh, but he was a big, he was a big guy. He had big arms. And I just said, you know, have you ever thought about pro wrestling? And he said it would be his dream. And he said, but I could never make that happen. I said, Well I could, I could, I could help you. And you know, 18 months later he had a contract to be. And back then wrestling, pro wrestling was a big deal. Vince McMahon tried to buy Gold's Gym at one point and I said, you know, I have a problem with a lot of your talent. They don't, they don't have the right physique for what they're doing, uh, on stage. And so he said, well, you know, send me people. So I sent him over 20 people in the following years and many of them became some of their best wrestlers, the most, most well known.

Speaker A: So give me some. Let's, let's hear some names like the

Speaker B: Ultimate Warrior, uh, Kurt Angle, uh, Randy Orton, uh, you know, John Cena. We talked about, uh, Chris Masters, Chris the Masterpiece. Um, these were people who were, you know, tall or big or had a great look. Uh, one of them, um, Evan Marriott was six, uh, five and he had a great look. So while he was staying in my house going to wrestling school, I said, why don't you try out for some auditions, uh, for you know, a TV series or whatever. He became Joe Millionaire. He was the first, um, uh, what do you call it, reality, uh, TV star. 43 million people saw his last episode. I watched, I watched it in the bedroom where he had stayed for two years. But during that series they were talking about him as this unemployed, a contractor and instead he's staying in a, you know, multi million dollar beach home. Uh, but, but uh, so there were people like him, uh, Jay Cutler, who is m, you know, Mr. Olympia, uh, I met at 19, like, like Lee Priest, I met him at 20. Lee went on to be, uh, and still a great bodybuilder at age 50. Uh, so I would, I would help people because you know, the big challenge for a lot of Americans is being able to move and get out of their space. Only, only 1 in 10Americans ever lives outside 100m mile radius of where they were born. That's how captive they are to their own environment. So people would come to la, but back then, I mean for most of my house guests it was their first time on a plane. Um, they had never traveled anywhere. You know, it could be intimidating and LA was not, not as expensive as it is now, but it's still, uh, it would cost a few thousand dollars to relocate and get settled. So the, the time in my home would give them the break to, to start a new life in, in California, which really LA back then and maybe even now a little bit is still a land of incredible opportunity. I I got my first job as an architect designing the Neiman Market store in Beverly hills at age 30. That would not have happened in any other city in the world. 30 years old, I'm given a $16 million budget to design a store for Neiman Marcus in Wilshire Boulevard in Beverly Hills.

Speaker A: You're, as we, uh, would say, uh, here in Boston, wicked smart. Uh, Ed, um, before I let you go, Arnold Schwarzenegger, um, you have a relationship with him. You've had a relationship with him. What's that like? What was that like? You know, to, I mean, obviously, I mean, I guess it's almost probably similar to the trajectory of John Cena. But, um, you know, tell us about your relationship when you met him. Um, you know, how often do you interact with him? Um, and you know, just kind of like, what's that like? Because, I mean, you know, he's, he's as big as it gets.

Speaker B: Yeah, he is. I mean he's uh, I, I met him, uh, during the time they were filming Pumping Iron and, and uh, I had seen pictures of, in the magazines and I came up to him and I said, you know, uh, what do you want to do? And he said, I want to be rich, I want to marry well and I want to be famous. And I, I didn't doubt him for one minute. And if you had told me he was going to be governor of California, I could say, I can believe that. I could see that. So, um, I would see him, I would take my house guests who were Catholic to church, uh, every Sunday at the 9:30 Mass at St. Monica's knowing that he would be there with Maria and the kids. And he would be very gracious in spending, uh, time with the guys or gals and tell him how great they looked and signing autographs or taking pictures. So he's just a class act. I mean, he's uh, he's in another world I can't really relate to, but he is, um, I, I'm, I, I, I love the fact he hasn't forgotten his roots. You know, he, uh, he credits bodybuilding with his, with his success. And, and uh, you know, if you were to, if you were to walk into a room and you didn't know who he was, you would know that that was somebody that had a certain charisma. Like, well, I remember, um, seeing Ted, uh, Kennedy walk into a room in L. A and you knew he was someone, um, you know, someone different, someone special. And Arnold has that, that look now. And uh, he's, he's training in gold's gym a lot these days with his, uh, son, uh, Joe, the, the, the kid he had with his housekeeper. Uh, um, so it's, it's wonderful to see that he's, he's really kept Gold's Gym alive because Google owns the building now, and, uh, they want to make it all part of their Venice campus. But Arnold, I think, has kept them at bay. So Gold's Gym owes a lot to, uh, Arnold.

Speaker A: Well, Ed, um, again, your, your history, uh, is remarkable. Um, you know, there's a lot to cover. Uh, you know, I know we didn't have a ton of time with you, but I, uh, just think it's, um, it's, uh, it's really interesting what you've done and what you continue to do and continue to change this industry. You know, you said, I think you said, you say you're 78. They said 78 years old. This guy's, uh, I mean, he's traveling all over the place. He's, he's at all these events, and everybody knows who he is. Everybody, Everybody that I know, they know. I'm not even talking about famous guys. They know who Ed Connors is for a reason, because of his impact on the fitness world, not just bodybuilding, but. So if you're, if you're working out, if you're training, if you want to look good, if you're an Instagram model, um, you have Ed Connors, uh, to thank for, uh, whatever, whatever food you're putting in your belly, whatever money you're putting in your bank account. This guy literally was there at the very, very beginning and has created it and continues to help, uh, impact that industry. And he's, and he's revolutionized, revolutionizing it as we speak. If you'd like some more information about Ed, um, go to edconnors.com, pick up the book. Again, it's an interesting story about history within this space, but it's not even just about the history of it and the characters in, in between, but it's also about building a brand. You know, as marketer, myself, and a business person, uh, I'm always interested in people like Ed that have done huge things, continue to do things, and by the way, we can talk about it, but, you know, it hasn't been easy. You know, there's been a lot of ups and downs and peaks and valleys. This guy's taking a lot of risks. He's taken a lot of hits. Uh, but he's also done a lot of great things as well. And he continues, uh, to do it. And he, uh, he's been gracious enough to spend some time with us. And thank you so much for being here. My name is Michael Alvin, that's Ed Connors, and we'll see you soon.

Speaker C: I'm super excited about our latest program. Look, we've been on television for close to 20 years, literally selling hundreds of millions of dollars worth of products and services that have had a positive impact on people's lives. We've created millionaires. If you've ever watched television, you've most likely seen me on television. Not dressed like this, but in a suit and a tie. Listen, we've re engineered the process. We're allowing people, a small group of people, whether you're an author, whether you're a business coach, whether you're an entrepreneur, whether you have a program or service that you feel as though that could have a positive impact on people's lives and you want to uplevel your game. You know, you're tired of what's going on on social media. You're tired of AI is not kicking in. You're tired of all the money that you're spent and you're not seeing any return. You're tired of all these fraudsters out there that tell you they're going to put you in Huffington Post or USA Today or Forbes and it's nothing just but a joke. You want to be in front of millions of people every single day all over the country. Folks, we've been doing it for 20 years. We've re engineered the process. We've made it possible for the average everyday person to participate in this. If you want to up level your game, if you truly want to build your profile, if you truly want to get in front of millions of people every single day, send me a direct message. Ike Alden. See it on the bottom of the screen at Mike Alden. Put TV in the message and I will get back to you personally and see if you're a good fit for us again. Send me a direct message at Mike Alden. Send me the message TV and we'll see if you're a good f.

Speaker A: Sam.