#207 - Marketing Legally with Robert Freund: Insights on Social Media Advertising and E-Commerce

Speaker A: Just curious if there's something that you know, you, you see that's common or something that you could just be like, hey, you know what, do this or don't do that.

Speaker B: Yeah, I guess there would be a couple of things other than like get, get legal uh, advice sooner than later is stay up to speed on the news in your area. Because a lot of times like I don't just read the legal channels. I'll, I'll subscribe to blogs and pay attention to different marketing newsletters. Sometimes they'll cover like, hey, the regulators are getting more serious about X issue or so and so has been sued for this. Like staying up to speed on the news about what's going on in your industry can at least help alert you to potential issues like hm, I wonder if that's a problem. Maybe I should ask a lawyer about that.

Speaker C: All right. For me, success is continuing to fulfill my potential.

Speaker A: So it's always something I'm looking toward, not something I've achieved.

Speaker B: To me, success is doing something that you love to do that allows you to be of service to others and it gives you a sense of fulfillment in your heart. I think I chased success so much that I put happiness on hold for 20 years. And now I realize if I put happiness first, the success chases me.

Speaker A: Success is being able to have the

Speaker C: control of your day to day of

Speaker A: your life, of having a freedom, financial independence. If you're doing it on your own schedule, that's success.

Speaker C: In essence, the fulfillment of knowing that you've done your best is my definition of success.

Speaker A: This is the Alden Report.

Speaker C: I'm super excited about our latest program. Look, we've been on television for close to 20 years, literally selling hundreds of millions of dollars worth products and services that have had a positive impact on people's lives. We've created millionaires. If you've ever watched television, you've most likely seen me on television not dressed like this, but in a suit and a tie. Listen, we've re engineered the process. We're allowing people, a small group of people, whether you're an author, whether you're a business coach, whether you're an entrepreneur, whether you have a program or service that you feel as though that could have a positive impact on people's lives and you want to up level your game. You know, you're tired of what's going on on social media, you're tired of AI is not kicking in. You're tired of all the money that you're spent and you're not seeing any return. You're tired of all these fraudsters out there that tell you they're going to put you in Huffington Post or USA Today or Forbes, and it's nothing just but a joke. You want to be in front of millions of people every single day all over the country. Folks, we've been doing it for 20 years. We've re engineered the process. We've made it possible for the average

Speaker A: everyday person to participate in this.

Speaker C: If you want to upload your game, if you truly want to build your profile, if you truly want to get in front of millions of people every single day, send me a direct message, Ike Alden. See it on the bottom of the screen. Ike Alden. Put TV in the message and I will get back to you personally and see if you're a good fit for us. Again, send me a direct message at Mike Alden. Send me the message tv, and we'll

Speaker A: see if you're a good fit. This is the Alden Report. All right, my name is Mike Alden.

Speaker C: We are kidding.

Speaker A: Here in Blue Vase Studios. Uh, I am. Where are my 99 cent glasses? I'm right. I got my 99 cent glasses and, uh. Hold on, wait a minute. My nine cent glasses. I thought I had my wicked happy hat on, but I don't. Garrett. All right, we'll get the wicked happy hat on. Um, sorry about that. Wicked happy hat. Listen, um, there's a reason why I did this. It wasn't. That was a setup, as you could probably tell. But, um, I'm wicked excited for my next guest. You know, uh, for those of you who've been following the alderman report for a while, you probably know that I'm still, uh, a licensed attorney here in Massachusetts. Kind, um, of grew up in the world of advertising law, uh, more specifically on television and, uh, as the world of social media continues to evolve. And when I was really active as an attorney, it really wasn't a thing. Um, but now it is really a thing. And I was on Instagram and this guy came across my feedback. And I've seen a lot of lawyers that are doing this, but I was really interested in kind of how he was doing and the advice that he was giving. I even commented on some of his, uh, some of his stuff. Um, and the, uh, advice that he's giving is really, really sound advice. But I also had some questions with, uh, about the advice that he is giving and, uh, and how that really impacts his business. Um, please help me welcome Robert Freund, an attorney out of California. What's up, brother?

Speaker B: How's it going? Happy to be here. Thanks for inviting me.

Speaker A: Turning. So, you know, I, uh, I was gonna wear my suit and everything, but uh, decided. Decided not to because I don't do that really anymore. Um, you know, uh, let's just jump into it. I saw one of your ads. Uh, no, it wasn't even that. You just came across. I don't even know if you run ads. But you came. I came across my feed. I've seen your stuff before and I think I commented, might have commented on a couple things, but I commented on uh, a provision in um, in one of the agreements, uh, that we talk about, which uh, is an indemnification provision. So I want to talk about that in a second. But before we do, tell us all your background, man. So where'd you go to law school? Everybody wants to know, where'd you go to law school? Where'd you go to undergrad? Where'd you go to law school? When did you graduate? How many times you take the bar exam? All that stuff that, uh, people really act like they care about but shouldn't.

Speaker B: Sure, yeah. I grew up in Virginia, in Virginia Beach. I went to college at the College of William and Mary. I went to law School at UC Davis in Northern California, graduated in 2012, moved to LA right after and started working at a large firm called Greenberg Traug. Um, I did commercial litigation there for close to seven years. A lot of what I was doing there was defending big companies against advertising, um, class actions. And the advertising related subject matter is a lot more interesting to me than the other areas that I had exposure to. I did some real estate litigation, some financial services stuff, um, and a lot of this advertising class action work. And uh, when for a variety of reasons, I decided that continuing life at a large firm was not for me. And I came to the conclusion that starting my own firm was the movement. Um, I wanted to focus on the advertising area and E commerce related issues as well because like I said, it's the most personally interesting to me. I can read about some of this stuff just because I want to and not necessarily because I'm on the clock. It's inherently interesting to me. And um, some of the clients we had at my previous firm would come to us for sort of like outside general counsel work that was um, like litigation avoidance is how I would describe it. For example, a big video game publisher might be running a campaign for a game that's coming out and say, hey, before this goes live, can you look at this? Can you tell us what we if there's anything we definitely shouldn't do, there's something that's risky. Can you propose something that's more in line with our risk tolerance? Can you tell us how our competitors have gotten in trouble for this sort of thing? And I like that work a lot more than the litigation piece. So my goal was, when I, when I launched my firm in 2019, um, eventually move away from litigating and just doing that sort of compliance and related transactional work exclusively. And now I'm at that point, and so that's what I do. So my clients are primarily direct to consumer brands, marketing agencies, talent agencies, and then some individual talent and creators as well.

Speaker A: Awesome. Well, you know, thanks for, for that. You know, kind of bringing us up to speed or what you've done and where you're at. I said I was going to ask that question about the indemnity indemnification clause, but, you know, maybe we'll get on to that later because, um, you said a lot of different things there. And as an attorney for myself, Garrett, what, 18 years. Garrett's also a lawyer. What am I. Uh, when I was. In 2004, I think, for me. Um, so how many years is that? That's right. Um, so, you know, I played high, uh, school football, college football, and in high school I played the, uh, offensive line. Um, and the, uh, only time I ever got noticed. Right. Is when I missed. When I missed a block.

Speaker B: Right. Uh, right.

Speaker C: And.

Speaker A: And, you know, talk a little bit about the importance of having a lawyer involved early on, even if you don't think you need one. Uh, and, and, and why that's so important versus having to get one.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: Um, and then also, uh, talk. Talk a little bit about, uh, how. I think there's a. I've seen it. There are some lawyers that do have a bad reputation for this, where they ultimately, they have no idea about business, they have no idea about marketing, and they're just like. They're just gatekeepers, and the gate's never gonna. Never gonna open. So I want you to also kind of dispel, um, that there are lawyers like you that actually understand marketing. That'll show the marketers, hey, I hear you. Let me show you how to do it the right way. So I guess we get two questions.

Speaker B: The first one, like why. Why it's beneficial to have a lawyer before you're in trouble. If you're in business long enough, you are going to get sued or someone is going to threaten to sue you whether you've done anything wrong or not. It's, it's a fact of life. And the first time is usually the scariest and, and people tend to be intimidated and more thrown off their game the first time it happens. But it will happen sooner or later. If it hasn't happened to you yet, that's good for you. It probably means that you're doing it the right way, but it's coming. Eventually someone will send you a letter or you'll get served with something that says you got to appear somewhere. So almost across. I, uh, don't want to say always because, you know, lawyers don't like to say that, but it's generally a hell of a lot more expensive and stressful and distracting to deal with, uh, piece of litigation rather than investing the money up front and taking the time to safeguard yourself to the extent you can from that situation in the first place. So just like an easy example, paying somebody for a few hours of time to draft a services agreement for your agency is a hell of a lot cheaper than even responding to any lawsuit about a breach of that contract or anything else. So, uh, having somebody on your team that's proactive, and that doesn't necessarily mean, you know, hiring a huge international law firm to look over absolutely everything you're doing all day because they can and will run up a disgusting, uh, bill for you gladly. But it does mean, like, thinking strategically about what are my areas of risk, or helping you, somebody help. Having someone help you identify that and getting your ducks in a row in terms of the fundamentals, like, if you're starting out, have your business set up the right way, make sure that you have the right operating agreement. If you have people you're in business with, um, have your employment agreements and everything set up, because that's, that's the kind of risk, at least in California, that can be devastating. Whatever standard agreements you're sending out to your customers or clients, have those tightened up. If you're selling things to consumers, have terms of service that you can enforce, things like that, it's really is worth the upfront time to make sure that if something goes wrong, it's going to be a lot less expensive, hopefully, than having to deal with it after the fact. Um, the second question was about, like, don't. About how some lawyers will just say no to everything that has any amount of risk. Uh, like you said, people don't like that. If I said no to everything that a marketer or a brand wanted to put out in their advertising, very few campaigns would get run. If I'm saying no if there's any risk at all. So what I try to do, and what most good lawyers in their respective fields try to do, is say some things are a hard no and they just have to be. But there's far more things that are. This is the risk. If you take this course of action, here's what's happened to other people who have done it, and then it's a business decision about how much risk is this client willing to take on with knowledge of what they're getting into. You can't really make that risk assessment if you don't know what the risks are. But hopefully there's a creative solution. Or even if there's not and you're comfortable with that legal risk in your business judgment, then you at least understand the cost benefit that you're getting into when you do it, rather than just having someone say no that potentially could get you in trouble with X. And so the answer is no.

Speaker A: Yeah, again, great explanation. Um, again, we've been on with Rob Bryant. Uh, he's an attorney out of California, practices, I believe, all over the country. I think you're admitted federally as well. So, um, look, the reason why we're having him on is because, as most of you know, I'm also an attorney. Um, I practiced for, I think, I don't know, 17, 18 years.

Speaker B: Forget.

Speaker A: Uh, and. But I'm also a marketer as well. Um, and, um, I see the importance. In fact, in my last book, Blueprint the Business, which we'll talk about a little bit. This isn't about me. I spent a lot of time talking about how to avoid some of the pitfalls or simple mistakes that marketers make, uh, you know, uh, in that book. So, again, if you'd like some more information about Rob, uh, just go to his Instagram. From there, you can also go to his website. Um, and he let me do this. Uh, again, if you're listening right now and you have a business, you're starting a business, maybe you've been in the business a little while and you're not quite sure about all the things you're doing, this is the type of guy that knows what he's doing. Because one, he's, uh, he has his finger on the pelt, so to speak. He's not just an attorney who's just sitting behind a desk. He's out there, he's posting videos. That's how I saw him. So he actually understands marketing as well. So, again, you can check out his Instagram. It's Robert F R E U N D Law, uh, uh, on Instagram and again uh, right when you go to his website. So in my opening uh, for those who are still here with us, I had, I threw my hat here, uh, which is a brand called Wicked Happy, uh, which uh, I helped uh, found. And uh, you know uh, uh, it is a registered trademark I believe a couple different ways.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker A: Garrett, uh, uh, more than just the words. But the idea came to me uh, uh, based off of a statement that I said and Garrett was over there, uh, uh, who helped uh, and runs the whole business as well. He's also a lawyer as I said, um, he said I think that's a brand. And we're from Boston and you guys say work it out there too. It's a little bit different but we're from Boston and before. And we're marketers and before we did anything we did a couple of different things. One we said well let's see if we can get the domain even before the trademark because we want to see

Speaker B: if that was available.

Speaker A: And uh, then we filed for the mark and then we didn't do anything. We didn't put anything into the stream of commerce. And so at least we had it registered. Uh, and we thought it was going to actually it was, it was out for publication. We were pretty sure we were going to get it. The reason why I bring this up, all this stuff up guys, and I want. I can't wait to hear what you have to say about it. I know what you're probably going to say is that, and I preach this all the time. I'm sure you do as well. And I think you have some videos about it. Intellectual property for, especially for uh, you know, young entrepreneurs. They might not know it on day one, but it could be, if not will be their most valuable asset. And if they don't do it right, if they infringe on someone else's or they fail to actually uh, essentially get uh, to the trademark office before someone else, they could have all host of issues. So let's jump into intellectual property and you know you talk about uh, copyrights and as it relates to music and um, TikTok and some of the things I've seen some of your articles. Let's go to. Let's talk about. Why don't you give us a quick little law 101 really, in the world of social media and media, what are the real kind of important forms of intellectual property that people should understand?

Speaker B: Yeah. If we're talking about content on social media and what the risks are from an Intellectual property perspective. The things that I see come up over and over again have to do with copyright infringement and violating.

Speaker A: Uh, do me a favor before that. What is a copyright? Because I think people, people hear it and they think, okay, they know, but what is a copyright? What does it apply to? And why should. Pretty much anybody who is, uh, creating anything should, should pay attention to.

Speaker B: Yeah. A copyright refers to the someone's right to display, copy, publish, distribute or reproduce. Ah, creative work that's fixed in a tangible medium is the way that it's expressed in the law. So basically anything that has some creative element to it that you create, whether you're taking a photo or shooting a video or writing a screenplay, the copyright protects creators from having their work just ripped off, basically. And so anytime that you, uh, at the time you create one of those works, like the minute I press the button on my camera, I own the copyright in that work by default.

Speaker A: Some people get confused, like, well, I want to cut you off. Um, by the way, I interrupt all the time. Sorry, man. The reason. Well, no, no, no. The reason why is because I think there's a. You're going to get to something. But there's a distinction there because you hear the, what I call jailhouse laws of hey, mail it to yourself, and therefore it's protected. But talk about really what that means. Essentially when you're taking that published work or you're taking that work and you're putting in the stream of comm. Because you said, what you said was, is that it's. There is a certain level of copyright protection, but there's another level that most people don't also understand. So talk about the distinction between the two essentially types of copyright protection.

Speaker B: Sure. So you own the copyright by default when you create the work. In order to exercise certain rights and enforce those rights, there's an additional step that you need to take and you have a limited time to do it, and that step is registering your work with the U.S. copyright Office. If you do not do that, and within a certain amount of time, then you forfeit the ability to sue someone for copyright infringement, which is kind of a harsh rule. But that's the way it is. So let's say I take a picture and I publish it online. I upload it to my Instagram. It's still true that I own the copyright in that image. I don't grant, I don't lose copyright or anything by putting something on a social media platform, at least according to the terms of those platforms as they're currently written. If Somebody else rips it off. I need to have registered if I want to sue them for copyright infringement. Somebody else reposts it or takes it or tries to sell it or whatever. And I don't like that. I want to sue them for infringement. I have 90 days from the first date that I publish that work to obtain copyright registration and then sue the person for it. So if you miss that window, you're out of luck in terms of accessing the courts to try to enforce your rights into copyright. There's other things that you can do, but, um, it's a big one that you're missing out on. If you don't have your work registered, you cannot sue for infringement without registration.

Speaker A: So it's 90 days, uh, from the date that you create the work. It's not 90 days from when you become aware of the infringement.

Speaker B: It's 90 days either from the. For published works, meaning you've shown it somewhere and that's not just private to you, it's 90 days from the date of publication. Or for unpublished works, like, let's say I've written a screenplay, uh, down, but no one else has seen it, it's in my desk drawer, and then somehow it gets ripped off by somebody who had access to it. In that situation, you have 90 days from the date you became aware of the infringing use. But for social media purposes, by upload something on my Instagram page, I have published it. And it doesn't matter that I don't find out that someone has reproduced it on their page or ran an ad with it, uh, until sometime later.

Speaker A: So, um, this is something that I don't know the answer to, and I know you do because I've seen some of your videos, but I don't know that I haven't watched the video that's going to cover this question. So, um, I post videos all the time as you do, uh, on Instagram. Um, you're. You're most active on Instagram. Again, it's Robert F R E U N D Law at Insta at ig. Uh, we'll put that, we'll put the link down there in the notes as well. Um, I post a video on Instagram, I make it. I, uh, create it. It's me. Uh, by the way, there is a trademark on Michael Alden as well, too. Right. Um, do I own it if it's on Instagram?

Speaker B: Yes, by default, you do. You own it. Instagram doesn't obtain ownership in anything that you upload, and that's a common misconception. That I hear from people, they're like, well, you know, it's on my public facing page. So it's in the public domain, which is not true. So it's up for grabs and there's nothing I can do. That's not how it works. You, you, by uploading on Instagram, you're granting the platform a limited license to do very limited things with what you post, but you're not giving any rights to anyone else and you're not losing ownership at all.

Speaker A: Thank you for giving that explanation, because I see it as you do. Probably, probably drives you a little crazy. You'll see these people post. I'm pretty sure it's universal amongst all of the social media platforms. Um, but, uh, you know, we'll see the post and they'll say it's almost like chain mail. And they're just reposting it, saying that, hey, you do not have any rights to my, to me, my name like this image, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Speaker B: Like, well, right.

Speaker A: Just, it's just a little like a chain, just chain mail. So to make people feel comfortable, it's just restate. I post a picture, a video content meaning, uh, work like words or any sort of work on Instagram, on Facebook, on TikTok, on, on Snapchat. What else? YouTube. Um, for all intents and purposes. Again, I guess I'm painting a pretty broad brush now, hitting all of these. I still, I own this stuff, right?

Speaker B: Ah, assuming you have ownership of it in the first place. Like if I, if I create a video that has 20 seconds of a Disney film in it. Like, I don't own that part of it because that's not mine in the first place. But if I, if, if I'm shooting a video like I do, that's just me speaking into my computer and upload it. That's, that is mine on any platform that I uploaded to. I'm not, I'm not losing ownership in that content by doing so. Um,

Speaker A: but yet you'll see on Instagram them enforcing, uh, essentially taking down people's videos that other people might have grabbed and repurposed. So what's going on there in that scenario? So if someone just, uh, and you. And there are huge accounts that still continue to do this. Uh, so let's say someone takes, just takes a screen grab of your, of your video, takes it, post it on, post it on their Instagram page. Um, what am I, if I, if you know, what do you do in that scenario? How do we stop them? What happens? What are the Repercussions. Why does Instagram even care? Why are they getting involved?

Speaker B: They care because they, they're required to care because you, as the person who owns that, uh, whatever the work is, can submit a DMCA takedown notice, the Digital Millennium Copyright act notice, to Instagram. And they are, assuming you satisfy the requirements. Instagram has their own form. Like, uh, if you, they have a process where you can report content for IP infringement. If you click on like copyright problem, they'll ask you a series of questions. And when you hit submit, that effectively is sending them a DMCA notice. You can also have a lawyer write one up and send it on letterhead or whatever. But if you can establish to the extent you have to for DMCA that you own, that, that that's your content and someone else is using it without your permission, then Instagram is obligated to take that content down. And the reason is, uh, the DMCA safe harbor allows them to operate if they're liable for every piece of copyright infringement media on a platform like that, they could not operate because they can't control at the time of uploading, like who owns what. So to allow them to still operate, the DMCA provides that, hey, if a user reports infringing content on your platform, you have to take it down. The person who did the alleged infringement has an opportunity to submit a counter notification. And then, uh, if things escalate, they can move into court. But that's the first thing. If you're unhappy that somebody has stolen your content and you're not interested in starting out with like federal litigation over copyright infringement, the first step is just reporting it through Instagram's forums, which works pretty well. And they, that's why they have that process built out on the platform.

Speaker A: Rob, what about, um, these scammers that, um, it's almost like, uh, you know, you've made it. When someone creates a fake page, uh, of yours, uh, you see them everywhere and there's definitely been one of me a couple times. And, uh, they're pretty obvious to. Well, actually for some people might not be so obvious. What about those accounts? Because, you know, now we're talking wholesale infringement all over the place. We're talking impersonation. If the person is a celebrity, there are also some different rights. And also if you're not a celebrity, there are other rights. Let's talk about that. Because it seems to be pervasive and a real problem. And the reason why I'm even, you can tell I'm escalating my voice a little bit is Instagram doesn't seem like they fucking care because, uh, I don't see them getting taken down.

Speaker B: Yeah, and this is one where I, you know, I wish I had a better answer for you. I've had a couple accounts try to impersonate me for whatever reason. Feel like a lawyer would be one of the last people I would choose to.

Speaker A: Well, you're entertaining. You're entertaining, man. And, and you're providing good, valuable content. That's how. Well, that's how I found you. So that's probably why. So, you know.

Speaker B: Yeah, I guess so.

Speaker A: Giving yourself a little compliment there, you know.

Speaker B: But, uh, yeah, I mean, Instagram is not great about dealing with fake accounts. And the, the only advice I can give is what everybody else does when they get, uh, when they identify them is like, hey, everyone, please report this account. And it's. The most important person to have reported is the person who's being impersonated. Like, when I go and submit that report and click the little thing that says it's me being impersonated, that's supposed to carry more weight with Instagram. But that's the, the trick is, like, the tricky part is, is this scammer breaking some laws outside of, like, Instagram's terms of service? Probably, yes. But how am I going to identify that person? How am I, if, if I can even undiscover, um, what their identity is, which you can do, but it's. It's expensive. Let's say I do identify them, and then I'm somehow able to identify where they are in the world and serve them with a lawsuit. What happens if they don't respond? What happens if, then I get a default judgment against them and they're in, uh, Romania or something? How am I then going to get a judgment in Romania? With the money brought back to the US Locating their accounts, it can be done, but it's a hell of a lot of work and it's certainly not a simple process. So I, I don't have great advice other than just report the accounts and hope that Instagram deals with it, even though I am fully aware and I'm frustrated by the fact that their responses to various reports are, like, arbitrary at best, or at least it seems that way. Like, some content that's obviously, uh, explicit will remain up, whereas content that's not seemingly violating community guidelines will get taken down. It's. It's hard to understand how they make those decisions and on what basis.

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, obviously, I'm super interested in this Stuff. And again, if you're listening right now, if you're an entrepreneur, if you're in business, if you work for somebody, if you are on this planet and you are, uh, probably most likely watching this on one of the social media platforms, uh, this is something that we all need to pay attention to. Uh, there are so many implications as it relates to ip like we said earlier, which is intellectual property. Uh, but we're also talking a little bit about advertising and marketing and how to do it properly. Uh, again, I found attorney Robert Freund, uh, on Instagram, uh, because I saw some of his videos. I commented on some of his videos. It was pretty obvious that he knew what he was talking about because I've had some attorneys actually say shit or people act like they're lawyers and they have no idea what they're talking about. And some people might think that they are and those people drive me crazy. Uh, but this guy is not one of them. He's been an attorney for a good amount of time. He's actually what we would say here from Boston, wicked smart. If you look at his CV or resume. Uh, you know, the guy's done some pretty big things and went uh, to some great law schools. I mean I went to a decent law school in Boston. But uh, this guy also, what people don't understand, he's in California. I know this because I've taken the bar exam twice. Uh, the bar exam, uh, the most difficult state in the union is California. Uh, and he's uh, and he's licensed there. So if uh, you'd like some more information about Robert, Attorney, uh, Robert Freund, you can just check him out on Instagram. He's got a link tree there. Go right to his uh, go right to his website and if you're thinking about doing anything, filing for a trademark, uh, doing a trademark search, filing a copyright, which is actually fairly simple but you, you know, you could screw it up as well if you don't know what you're doing. Uh, if you're concerned about your copy, maybe you want to be preemptive. All the stuff that a lot of people forget about, the non sexy stuff I call it, which is critical for your business. This guy can actually do it all for you. Check out his uh, again, check out his Instagram @robin F R E U F R E U N D Law and one last thing he did say he will give a discount on his uh, on the first consult for you if you mention the other report. So um, that was a long break there I forgot what I was going to ask. Uh. Oh. So the. All right. I wanted to get to music. Um, I'm actually a member of bni. Excuse me, bmi. Um, because we've been on television for years, we actually created our own music. We learned that we could actually make money, um, if we created our own music. And this is years ago. Um, but talk about music specifically as it relates to TikTok, as it relates to Facebook, Instagram. Why is it that I can't bring in my music that's on my iPhone, uh, versus the stuff that's already there? Why is it that some music isn't there? Why is it when I search for Ice Ice Baby, I find something else? Um, what's going on there? If you could kind of explain to people, you know, kind of the whole world. And also, uh, why is it that uh, my stuff gets muted sometimes because of music, uh, in the background.

Speaker B: Right, So a couple things there. Let's, let's talk about Instagram and tick tock. Um, TikTok has a. Or I'll just refer to TikTok. The same ideas apply. TikTok has, if you are, have an individual account, a pretty big music library filled with songs that people recognize that are popular, that you can find on Spotify, here on the radio and so forth. If you have a business account, and I believe also if you have a creator account, you get access only to a different library that TikTok, I think calls the commercial music library and that does not have any tracks that you would recognize. It has like royalty free tracks that are not by popular artists and that uh, are not going to give you as much reach in your videos because people don't recognize the music. The reason for that is because TikTok has access to this popular trunk, these popular tracks in this sort of public library because they have licensing arrangements with the big record labels that allow TikTok to offer that music for people to include in content, but not for commercial purposes. And they have that separate library because those record labels do not want people running music in ads because it's a big money maker for them and they don't want to just have that open to everybody. So the way that this comes up and more recently has come up in probably half a dozen lawsuits that I can think of is where a brand will either post content on TikTok on their own page directly that uses a popular music track, or they'll contract with some influencers to post content on their pages that uses popular music. And Sony, UMG and Warner have been very aggressive going after a few larger brands who are doing both of those things for both of those things. So, um, Bang Energy has been sued by two of them. There's a makeup brand in the UK that's currently being sued. Gymshark was sued for this. And the idea is, look, the TikTok as a platform does not give you a license to use their music in that public facing database for commercial purposes. And when you post content on a brand page, that's a commercial purpose. No matter if it's. If you're running ad dollars behind it or not even a like so called Organic TikTok on a brand's page, that's a commercial use. Same thing with any influencer sponsored content. Even if they're just posting it on their own pages, there's a connection with a brand behind that post that is a commercial use as well. And that's where the trouble is. And to your question about why do some of my tracks get muted? The platforms, I don't know the details like technically of how this works, but they have software help that will allow them to essentially cross reference what has been uploaded against the tracks that are in their library that they only have limited licenses to use or that will recognize. Like, hey, if this gets posted, it's going to infringe, um, on the rights of the copyright holder in that track. So we're going to preemptively mute it to just avoid the issue early. So that's sort of why that's there. Um,

Speaker A: yeah. Um, so does it, you know, we're talking about commercial purposes. People understand. I think people get with it. Some people may not as you're making money with, with the content and if you're using someone else's music, there's an issue with that. But does the water get murky? It has to. And I'm sure you, you got, you know, you're probably in the forefront. So I'm interested to hear what you have to say because I don't know that it's been fully vetted. Maybe it has. I haven't really looked into it. We'll find out. Uh, okay, so I'm a big influencer. Not me, but I'm just, I'm m. Let's talk about. Oh, you are. I'm not. But let's talk about, let's talk. So using and using. I'm as in, as in the royal. I'm, I'm a big influencer. Uh, I have millions of followers. I'm on TikTok. Um, I, you know, I can, I can make money now through subscriptions. I can make money now through tipping, through, you know, through digital, uh, you know, digital tipping. Uh, I can make money also just, just regular tipping.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: If you're watching these tick tock videos now. Right. It's amazing, by the way. I'm fascinated with that whole world. Okay, so that scenario, uh, I am not promoting a brand necessarily. Uh, I'm not selling a brand particular. I'm just on TikTok, going live, talking or even I post a video. I post a video. I'm an influencer who can essentially make money just like, like on, just like how people do on YouTube. I have that music in there. Is it, I mean, is it, is it black and white? Is it, is it murky? Are we, Are we? Are we. Has this been fully vetted? Do we know the answer?

Speaker B: That that is not black and white. And there has not been any litigation that I'm aware of where, uh, a rights holder in music has sued. Because just because someone has an audience that they monetize in some way. And the difficulty in bringing that kind of case is exactly what you identified. Like, just because there are revenue streams that I get, because I have an audience does not necessarily convert everything that I ever do into commercial content. Certainly not branded content. If I'm not promoting a supplement line or whatever the case may be, if it's just me and people and I have like a Patreon or something or a subscription, people pay me money and uh, they just like my personality or whatever. Probably that's not going to be a problem in terms of how the licenses on the platforms work. If I use the big library and have like a Doja Cat song or something in my videos and people like that, my, you know, if I had to bet that that that's not a problem, I haven't seen it come up. Which is maybe indicative of the fact that that's how some of those record labels are seeing it as well. Um, but yeah, it's not like just because I make money online, everything that I do as an individual suddenly becomes commercial content. But let's say that I, because of my channel's popularity, I have my own line of like, let's just say sports drinks. If I'm promoting my own brand in my video, there's no question that that becomes commercial content because I'm endorsing a brand, I have a connection with that brand as an endorser. And that's clearly both branded content in terms of the platform's terms and a commercial Purpose for the content. It's advertising at that point. So I think the reason it took me a while to get through the answer to that question, and why it's a good question is because you're right, not all of this has been defined. Certainly not in the statutes sometimes. Uh, and as far as I'm aware, like, not completely fleshed out by the courts interpreting what's going on.

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, um, you know, our forefathers. Right. They say, didn't anticipate TikTok.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: Or, you know, they didn't anticipate, you know, either. Right. So for the second memory. So, um, there's just a lot of things and, you know, it all has to work out a lot of times through the legislative process, whether it be local, excuse me, state or federal level. Um, you know, again, I find this stuff super interesting. If you're listening again right now, um, and you're in business, you work for a business, you probably do. And you know, and whatever, whatever capacity, um, we're talking about things that are really important to businesses. Um, as an attorney myself, I've seen businesses, ultimately, they've been put out of business because of really simple mistakes that just got worse and worse and worse and worse and worse. And then all of a sudden, a subpoena comes from the federal government, uh, and you're in your shutdown. You know, uh, you may be good people, but the government doesn't necessarily, uh, believe that. So again, if you want to. More information, uh, about attorney Robert Freund and what he's doing, uh, you know, we've added this guy a little bit, right? A little bit. Check them out. So I'm on Instagram, uh, and I want to talk a little bit about, uh, his Instagram and what he's doing as well. But so check him out at Robert F R E U N D Law. Right from there, the link tree, you can check them out, see what he's doing, some additional things, and if you want to, you know, get on the phone with him, um, uh, it's not free. Okay. Uh, this is not. This guy gets paid for his time. He works for big companies. He's been doing this stuff for a long time. But he did say he'll give you a discount if you mention the, uh, Alden report. And just so everyone's clear, I'm not making any money off of this thing or just something that he's doing, um, for the viewers and listeners. Um, so I worry, I think sometimes as a lawyer, uh, well, one. Sometimes, you heard me, kind of get. I hear. I cringe, but I cringe when I hear people give legal advice that aren't lawyers. Okay. Because there's a lot of. That. There's a lot of stuff going on up there.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: But then there's you, who is a licensed attorney. I'm guessing you're also licensed federally, uh, as well, um, in California. And you've been practicing long enough where you can swear in and probably every state, which they would stand. Uh, what is Garrett? Ad hoc Viche, uh, is actually the, um. I called it ad hoc vice at one point, but. So you, uh. And your content is interesting to me. There's a couple other attorneys that do this, and they do a good job, too.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: This one woman, she goes back and forth with herself about terms, uh, and conditions and stuff. A lot of times, um, you give legal advice, you know, on your. On your page. Do you worry about that? Uh, do you worry about if you're wrong? I'm just talking to you as, like, an individual.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Do you ever worry about if you're wrong? Have you ever posted anything like, oh, you know what? That might not be accurate? You know, do you worry about that? Stuff is, I don't think anybody's going to sue you, but I just don't like being wrong, I guess, is what I'm asking.

Speaker B: Yeah, I. I don't, um. The way I see it, I don't give legal advice. I'm giving legal information. Legal advice is something specific to a situation someone is having. If I'm articulating what the law is in a way that people can understand, or I'm, um, commenting on a case that's in the news, or I'm, um, assessing what went wrong for somebody or what a risk is. Generally that's legal information. And I'm pretty clear with people who. Because sometimes I'll get in the comments like, hey, I'm being sued by this person. What should I do? And I'll say, like, this is not the forum for that. Like, if you want, we can have a consultation or get a referral or whatever. Um, worrying about being wrong about what I've said, I don't remember what it was. I think I might have overstated something once. I think I made one post where I was kind of fired up, and I said, no case has ever held X. And there was a lawyer in the comment that was like, well, this state court trial decision suggests. And I was like, okay, fine. So I. I very rarely ever say, like, no case has ever, because I can't, uh, I, I mean, I always

Speaker A: say you gotta listen, you always gotta. You always got to give yourself out as a lawyer. I say it all the time. Like, yeah, that's what, you know, it's like, you know, we did a lot of supplement stuff, and at the end of every study, no matter how good it would be, you know, how great it was, and double blind, triple blood doesn't even matter. Greatest studies in the world done by the Mayo Clinic. The end would always say, however, there's still room for more research, you know, no matter.

Speaker B: Yeah. Uh, but the idea of that does keep me up at night. And I try to do as thorough a job as I can do to ensure that I'm auditing my own stuff to make sure that if I were to go dig. Am I right? Is everything I'm saying accurate about my recitation of whatever I'm trying to get across, what happened in the case, what I think risks are, and so forth. So not to pat myself on the back, but, like, because that does give me anxiety, the idea that I might post something and then have one of my colleagues say, like, this is a, uh, ass backwards or something. I would hate to have that happen. So I, I try to be pretty careful and thorough before I post something.

Speaker A: There's a lot of thought going into your videos, which is more so probably than others. And again, I think about it even just for the stuff I'm always doing, stuff about, you know, marketing and publishing books and stuff. And, you know, I've had people say, you know, things, but the other part, too, that people need to understand. And it's kind of a joke amongst, you know, practicing law or practicing law. Um, you know, look, there's a bunch of lawyers for a reason. Sometimes they're bad reasons, a lot of times they're good reasons. Uh, sometimes things just aren't cut and dry, no matter what. You know, like you said, they're. You know, your. Your colleague found a case and, you know, uh, in some local, you know, some state court and, you know, a state that no one's ever even heard of. Okay, all right, okay. I was wrong there. But my point for those listening watching right now is, um, it's not always cut and dry. And if you don't know the answer, consult with an attorney.

Speaker B: And I would also say consult with an attorney that practices in whatever the issue is. Like.

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker B: Uh, so like employment law, for example, it's so risky to do business and hire employees in California. And the, uh, stakes are so high that. Yeah, could I give sort of general Advice about employment matters. If I researched it, maybe. But if I'm the client, that's not what I would want. I want to talk to the guy that only does that all day. So I'll refer it out to that same thing for practice areas like patent, uh, work. Patent attorneys are in their own world. They have their own bar exam.

Speaker A: Um, a lot of them are, like, engineers, too. Like undergrad and stuff. Yeah.

Speaker B: Yeah. So if I'm a fan of finding people who are specialists in whatever your issue is, like, sometimes if you're a big enough company, it can make sense to hire that national law firm that has a presence in every state and does everything because you get an efficiency, even though their rates are higher by just having one stop for everything. But commonly, it's like the guy who writes your will probably should not be reviewing your ad copy. And there's. Even if you're paying a little bit higher rate for the person who does each of those things, uh, exclusively, it's going to be worth it from probably an expertise standpoint and also just your peace of mind that, okay, this person really is the expert in the area and not someone who's trying to wing it a little bit or recall what they saw at a different firm or something like that. So I'm a fan of using specialists.

Speaker A: Yeah. You know, I think there is a big misconception, uh, for people that. Who aren't lawyers. And I know it's happened to me all the time. You know, uh, when I. When I practice, you know, I basically did the exact same thing you've been. You were doing. Just, uh, social media really wasn't a thing, uh, was. Most of us was this television, radio, prints, uh, direct mail, things like that. Uh, you know, and I have people. People, you know, reach out to me about a real estate matter or a probate matter or your family law matter. I'm like, I don't know. It's a social. Social, uh, security. Uh, it's all. Could I research it and learn it pretty quickly? Sure. A lot of people don't understand. Lawyers are also held to an ethical standard where in order for us to actually give the advice, we actually have to be competent in the matter in which we are giving advice on. I think that's what.

Speaker C: Garrett. What.

Speaker A: What rule is that? That's right. I don't know. But it is a rule amongst the lawyers, despite what people. Despite what people think.

Speaker B: Um, and despite what some people do.

Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. So, uh, you know, thanks for spending the time. I hope you have a little bit More time because I think that this stuff is just super, super, super important. Again, if you want some more information about attorney, uh, Robert Freund, just check them out on Instagram. It's Robert F R E U N D Law on Instagram. From there he's got a uh, link tree. You uh, can check out what he's doing. Mention the other report. If you, if you decide you want to call him, he'll give you a discount off, off of his rate. Um, so let's talk about you. We talked about lawsuits earlier. Uh, you know, when I practiced, uh, actively I was general counsel of a company. And, and I mean people who read my books kind of know the story. The story is insane. And being thrown in the fire is an understatement. But it was a great education as a lawyer. But what I learned as a young lawyer at the time too, we had outside counsel of course. Um, but um, was one, litigation just sucks. Nobody wins. It's so, so emotional and just, just taxing on just your site. Everything, I just, I hated it, everything about it. Um, but the other part too that I realized there's a couple things, a lot of the stuff could have been avoided just by consulting with an attorney, uh, actor. But when you get that, let's talk about just a traditional, traditional civil lawsuit, one litigant versus the other. I get served, uh, you know, I don't have a lawyer. You know, what's the first thing I need to do?

Speaker B: The first thing you need to do is get a lawyer. And I, that might, that might sound self serving, like oh, I just want somebody to hire a lawyer. But the reason why that you have to do that, like even if you're like, this is a case, I can ignore it. The things that you think are, might not be. I've had people who ignore uh, copyright infringement demand letters and then next thing you know you're in federal court about it or TCPA violations. I had a client who ignored a letter about that because they thought this, this is probably spam. And like, yeah, those plaintiffs firms do send out hundreds if not thousands of letters if they find like something to pick at, like, like text messaging violations a few years ago. But you ignore a demand letter and you can bet that you're going to find yourself in court where the settlement demand has suddenly gone up at least double because they've had to go through the expensive filing a lawsuit against you. So if you get a demand letter first, do not ignore it, even if you think it is bullshit. Have a lawyer assess whether it Is in fact bs and in the very, very rare case, merits just ignoring it, at least sending a letter back like, hey, this is why what you just sent me is bullshit. Uh, essentially, letter from an attorney is, is critical. But especially if you have been sued, there's a window of time for you to respond before a court can say you lost because you didn't show up.

Speaker A: What do you, uh, we talked about, uh, you know, specialists. Right? So, um, you know, we're in Massachusetts. You know, we can use this wonderful thing called Google. Uh, you know, and just a bunch of lawyers that are also smart at marketing or maybe they hired a marketing firm. Um, okay, so I'm at that stage, I don't have a lawyer. And let's say it's a, you know, I don't know. Yeah, so let's say it's a copyright infringement complaint. Um, that's, that's been filed. How do I, how do I find the right lawyer? How do I know, like, what was, uh, what's the process? Like, what do I, what do I do when we say, okay, we need a lawyer, but okay, cool, I can get on Google, I get that. But how do I find the right firm?

Speaker B: So the first thing you do is you look at the lawsuit and see what court it was filed in. Uh, it'll say it front and center on the first page. You then, so now you know, like, where you need to find a lawyer who's licensed. So if you've been, if the case says Central District of California, probably la, is where you're going to be looking for an attorney. If it's a copyright case, you know that you're going to look for a copyright litigator. You want somebody with significant litigation experience, ideally somebody who only does that, meaning, like, they're not, uh, copyright litigation. IP litigation is their focus. And if you are in a position, like, let's say you have a relationship with a lawyer who maybe does something else, but you, you trust that person, you have a good relationship. Ask them if they have a referral for, uh, an IP litigator in California. If you don't have that, like, ask people who are in business with you, like, hey, have you ever gotten one of these types of lawsuits? Who did you use? Did you like them? And if that person can't represent you, they can probably get a good referral for you. So I like to try to exhaust like, whatever avenues for referrals you might have before resorting to Google because it can be hard, especially for a layperson, to try to figure out, like, does this person know what they're talking about? Are they the right fit for my kind of case? And so on.

Speaker A: But I find it, by the way, I think that, I think that, ah, you've been giving great advice. Of course, that's why you're here. But I, uh, that's that just in business for anything. I think that's the best way to do it. Right. You know. Yeah, go to, go to people that you know like, and trust. Ask them who they know like and trust.

Speaker B: Absolutely.

Speaker A: Uh, more likely than not, you're gonna find, you know, the person. Uh, I just had a, um. I, uh, had a friend reach out. It was a, um, um, a DUI scenario. That's, you know, it's not what I do. But, you know, in about 10 minutes, um, you know, I found the best attorney in, uh, the area. That's all this guy did. And you know, it took me a little while. I talked to a couple attorneys. Uh, the other part too is right, you get on the. So at some point too, you get on the phone and you also, you see if you, if, if, if you guys, you know, drive. Some attorneys are just. Yeah.

Speaker B: And how responsive are they exactly? Did they get back to you? Did they seem like they were distracted on the call? Things like that? Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker A: Um, so, um, when you decided for you as a brand, right. So, um, you're building the brand of you, and I'm interested in that. You know, um, what was the thought process as an attorney, um, in a state that is highly, highly litigious. Um, you know, uh, also the regulatory framework is even worse than Massachusetts. Um, you guys have agencies I've never even heard of. Um, so, um, when you decided that you were going to kind of put yourself out there, uh, why'd you do it? And if you could maybe, maybe, uh, there's some attorneys listening and maybe tell some stories, some experiences, uh, that have been, um, helpful for you or maybe even some mistakes that you've made. Uh, in the beginning.

Speaker B: Yeah. So when I decided that the move from the firm I was at was going to be to start my own thing, I knew that I wasn't going to be able to take any clients with me from that firm. It just wasn't. As a senior associate, you very rarely have the opportunity to get your own clients. Like I'm working with in house lawyer number 600 at Walmart, for example, was the last thing I worked on there. Like, I'm not going to take Walmart with me as a client. Be amazing. But it's not going to happen.

Speaker A: Although. Although, uh, what? People don't understand that there's a whole process. It does happen, you know. It does, but. Yeah, but you have to be, you know, probably a partner or something like that. I mean, and it's, it's not done, uh, in a way that everybody likes it. Let's just leave it at that. So. Oh, did we lose you? Oh, there you are. Can I hear you? Did we lose you? All right, okay, cool. Where do we left off? I was just saying that it does happen sometimes. Um, but, okay, so we're talking about why you, uh, an attorney and a brand, decided to get on social and do what you're doing.

Speaker B: Yeah. So like I was saying, no portable book because of the way it was realized I needed to get good at business development. Not something I had done before it started. The Instagram thing started with, uh, I was at some, um, networking type event and somebody asked me what I did. I was talking about how I'm focusing on online advertising thing and social media stuff. And he was like, oh, let me see your Instagram. And I was like, well, it's just a placeholder. I don't have any content on it. And he's like, well, you need to fix that. Look at this guy. This guy's a CPA. There's a guy named Tyler McBroom. He's got like a million followers now. He had a hundred thousand when I first looked at him. And my friend was like, this guy posts one minute videos about common tax issues that come up for business owners. Do that for legal issues that come up a lot. And I thought that's a really good idea. And uh, being on camera is not something that I had ever done before. It's, it's weird at first and then it becomes less weird. You just kind of have to do it. So I got consistent about posting videos. I tried to do a few a week. Um, over time, like you, you figure out what works and um, you get better at it. And the combination of being consistent about posting stuff online and then also, even though I don't really like or I didn't really like doing it, going to in person events leads to getting invited to speak at stuff and getting invited to speak at conferences led me to a handful of chance meetings that I can think of with people who have very, very big Instagram followings. And if your content is good, they'll share it without you asking. And that's what happened with me. And that created like a, uh, foundational, uh, mass of followers and Then that leads to more people sharing because they saw so and so shared it. So a combination of like, consistency and then a dash of luck, uh, has helped me rely on social media for like I'd say 95% of my marketing. And it doesn't cost me anything, which is great. Like my marketing budget or my marketing expenses last year were zero, which is great.

Speaker A: Yeah, that's amazing. And again, I think you're a great testament to uh, pretty much anybody can do it. And especially when you're in a profession like yours as an attorney that is held to a higher standard for a whole host of reasons. There's tons of case law that's gone all the way out to the Supreme Court as it relates to marketing for attorneys and things like that too. So uh, it's a, it's a bit of a, um, a slippery slope. Sometimes lawyers, uh, like to say, uh, advertising, um, as an attorney, um, but

Speaker B: I'm not, I'm not putting dollars behind it. And I have, I've never paid anybody to recommend me in a post or give a shout out or anything like that. So all, all the times where someone has either recommended someone follows me or check it out. I'm not running into any of those ethics issues because it's not my advertising because I didn't ask for it and I'm not paying anybody. So that's how I, I'm a very risk averse person with my own business. And so I've thought about, you know, it'd be nice if I could just pay so and so whatever to get a shout out to their 10 million followers. But the, it's pretty much a no go is where I landed on it.

Speaker A: Sure, sure.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Again we, that's a whole rabbit hole. We could go down and we could reminisce. Law school cases, right? Ambulance, ambulance chases, showing up at, you know, bomb bomb sites and stuff. Um, listen man, I, I'm, I'm, I'm psyched to have uh, you know, met you, uh, first on Instagram here face to face. I think what you're doing is great. I think it's important, um, as somebody who has m. Read out of the gate, uh, dealt with some pretty high stakes, um, cases in federal court that you know, ultimately put business people out of business and some people actually in jail, uh, for just simple mistakes that probably could have been avoided. I am a little bit biased. Uh, but you know, as you could probably tell, I'm not your typical lawyer as well. So I want to thank you for doing what you're doing before I do let you go after all the stuff that we've been talking about. Um, you know, do you have any advice for, for entrepreneurs that are in fact online other than just the standard hire lawyer? Is there something that kind of always comes top of mind that mistake, a common mistake that you know, people seem to make that are pretty easy to uh, to avoid and m. You know, you might be uh, you know, might be, you know, cutting yourself out of a job, but just curious if there's something that you know, you, you see that's common or something that you could just be like, hey, you know what, do this or don't do that.

Speaker B: Yeah, I guess there'd be a couple of things other than like get, get legal advice, uh, sooner than later is stay up to speed on the news in your area. Because a lot of times like I don't just read the legal channels. I'll, I'll subscribe to blogs and pay attention to different marketing newsletters. Sometimes they'll cover like, hey this. Regulators are getting more serious about X issue or so and so has been sued for this. Like, staying up to speed on the news about what's going on in your industry can at least help alert you to potential issues like hm, I wonder if that's a problem. Maybe I should ask a lawyer about this. The other thing is kind uh, of a simple one and I don't mean it to sound like demeaning or anything, but read contracts like make sure you understand what you're assigning before you sign them. And if anybody that you're trying to do business with says hey, really need you to sign this today, that's not appropriate. And I've had many, uh, clients and like potential clients, especially individuals, say I, I felt as though I couldn't ask for more time or I felt as though I couldn't ask if they're willing to budge on this or else I'd lose the deal. That is bs. Like no one is going to pressure you to sign anything important within a day. And it's completely appropriate to ask for more time and say hey, I need to get my legal team to look at this real quick. And so many mistakes and unfortunate situations have happened because someone has signed something they didn't really understand what it was and now they've given up something they didn't mean to give up or they're obligated to do something they didn't realize they were obligated to do. So read and understand your contracts. Don't get pressured into signing something Too quick, man.

Speaker A: Um, guys, if you got to this point and you just listened to what he said, uh, again, I, I cannot, um, put a bigger exclamation point on what he just said. One, uh, of the things, I think the misconceptions about lawyers, uh, is that people think that lawyers kill deals. That's not, that's not the case. I put together some of the, you know, $100 million deals that are high stakes, and that did happen pretty quickly. And I've also done, you know, $10,000 deals. Deals do not get killed by lawyers. You, uh, have some lawyers that are assholes. That's true. This guy isn't one of them. Uh, he understands marketing, he understands business. And, uh, these are the types of people that I like to talk to, especially if I'm actually seeking advice, because they say a lawyer who represents himself, uh, has a fool for a client. So I even, I have, uh, lawyers here and, and outside as well. Read your contracts, do your due diligence, do all the stuff you're supposed to do, and you'll avoid a lot of the stuff and you'll never know that something bad didn't happen. And that's actually the greatest thing. So, again, we've been on with attorney Robert Freund. Um, I was just super impressed with what he said. Uh, we originally talked about a clause in an agreement. Uh, we just talked about agreement. Uh, it's called indemnification. We're gonna have to have him back. We'll talk about that later. Or you can even check out his video on there about indemnification in my comments, uh, as well. So again, if you'd like some more information about attorney Robert Freund, it's Robert F R E U N D Law on Instagram. That's where he's the most active. That's where his content is. It's not only is it entertaining, that's informative, it's not legal advice, but it's certainly going to lead you in the right direction. And lastly, uh, again, if you do want to reach out to him and you have, you want to have a conversation with him, this, uh, guy is a professional attorney. I don't know if he has any other lawyers that works with him or not. But how he gets paid ultimately is for his time and for his knowledge and experience. So if you do want to reach out to him, you can. And also mention the Alden report and he'll give you, you, uh, know, a discount. We're not really sure what that is, but we know it's going to be less than what he normally charges. So my name is Mike Alden, that's Robert Bruin and we'll see you soon.

Speaker C: I'm, um, sorry, super excited about our latest program. Look, we've been on television for close to 20 years, literally selling hundreds of millions of dollars worth products and services that have had a positive impact on people's lives. We've created millionaires. If you've ever watched television, you've most likely seen me on television. Not dressed like this, but in a suit and a tie. Listen, we've re engineered the process. We're allowing people, a small group of people, whether you're an author, whether you're a business coach, whether you're an entrepreneur, whether you have a program or service that you feel as though that could have a positive impact on people's lives and you want to uplevel your game. You know, you're tired of what's going on on social media. You're tired of AI's not kicking in. You're tired of all the money that you're spent and you're not seeing any return. You're tired of all these fraudsters out there that tell you they're going to put you in Huffington Post or USA Today or Forbes and it's nothing just but a joke. You want to be in front of millions of people, people every single day all over the country. Folks. We've been doing it for 20 years. We've re engineered the process. We've made it possible for the average

Speaker A: everyday person to participate in this.

Speaker C: If you want to uplover your game, if you truly want to build your profile, if you truly want to get in front of millions of people every single day, send me a direct message at Mike Alden. See it on the bottom of the screen. Ike Alden, Put TV in the message and I will get back to you personally and see if you're a good fit for us again. Send me a direct message at Mike Alden. Send me the message TV and we'll

Speaker A: see if you're a good fit.