The Bad Apple Theory

Speaker A: The worst business decisions get made in times of desperation. And usually in a situation like this, we keep people around longer than we should, knowing we should let them go because we feel like we need them. And that's not a great business strategy. Welcome back to the Elite Business Advice Podcast. My name is Chris Moore, the founder of Elite Business Advisors, your host here of the podcast. And don't forget, We've got our 2026 Elite Business Retreat coming up here, July 22nd, 23rd, and VIP Day on Friday, July 24th, here in St. Louis, Missouri. This is by far one of my favorite few days of the entire year. I get to hang out with all of my friends, some great human beings, some industry experts, thought leaders, get to see a lot of our clients. I get to meet some. Some new people that come to the event that may not be clients of ours, which is great. It's not exclusive to our clients. Um, and it's just a fun, awesome few days. I spend 10 months out of the year planning this event. And so to execute, to show up, to have fun, um, I'm stoked for it. I'm stoked for the content lineup. We have, the speakers. Um, I'm always very humbled and grateful every time, every year when I'm putting this together. And we just, uh, released, like, the. The content lineup of what topics, what speakers are talking about and stuff. And I'm always humbled whenever I work on that because I realize that all of these individuals are traveling in. We don't pay any of them to be here, by the way. Like, I want to make that point super clear. We don't pay anybody that's on that lineup. We, uh, are paying our VIP speaker on Friday. Um, but everybody else is coming in to support, to pour in to the 70 painting contractors in that room, um, because they, they love us. They love what we do, and they want to just be an advocate for elevating this industry. And so, um, come join us. We got 10 to 15 tickets left. Um, for it. I want to just get these knocked out so I can just turn my focus to executing the event, make sure everything goes flawlessly, um, and is the best couple of days we could possibly have. So, that being said, my question for you today is this. What happens when you put a bad apple that's starting to rot right next to a perfectly good apple? Maybe you've never experimented with fruit before. It is one way you can get avocados to ripen a little quicker when you need them quickly. And they're hard as a rock. Um, but typically it does a lot more harm than good. Uh, if you've never done this before, if you take a really rotten, you know, piece of fruit and you put it next to another one, that's perfectly fine, within a day or two, that perfectly fine fruit is no longer going to be perfectly fine. Okay, the follow up question I have for you, and I'm setting you up on this one, I'll tell you that ahead of time. What happens when you put a negative, toxic, underperforming employee next to a rockstar employee? What happens? The exact same thing with the fruit. Just in case you didn't put those two analogies together here. So as we get into busy season, I want this to serve as a reminder to you to protect your team, protect your culture, protect your rock stars, and don't let one bad apple tank the whole bunch that you depend on for the livelihood of your business. So I hope it helps. Thanks for plugging in. This is the elite business advice guest. So there was a saying early on when I was in the industry, and it sounds a lot worse than what I think it's intended to be, but it's arguably probably one of the most important philosophies you can have when it comes to managing and hiring and dealing with people in your company. And it's four words. Hire fast, fire faster. Now that might seem ruthless, that might seem like, whoa, like they have no regard for humanity and people's lives and emotions. No, not the case. From a strategy point of view, you should always hire fast and you should always fire faster if they're not the right fit. Okay, Right. Fit can be a lot of things. It can be, it can be job performance, it can be, you know, KPIs, you know, their inability to show up and do what you hired them for. Um, more times than not, it's typically an attitude thing. It's a, um, I'm gonna say personality thing. But it's like there's a lot more to it than just job performance. Okay? And when we're talking painting, painting is not rocket science. Now somebody can maybe not be coachable, okay? So they're not going to develop. That's a whole different conversation. That's a personality thing. Um, but more times than not, we see that these bad apples are not just performance, it's really more intangible characteristics, um, things that probably aren't going to be fixed. Right? If you're not good at rolling out walls, but you're coachable, you guys know you can teach them to be better if they're coachable and willing to learn and willing to work on it and pay attention to detail and improve. If they're not coachable, they're still going to suck at rolling walls eight months from now. Right. So why are we going to keep them around? So that's where the higher, fast, fire faster thing comes into play. But the other side of it is, what I kind of shared a little bit in the intro is, you know, you hire somebody that's maybe not a good culture fit in your company. Okay. Culture is kind of a buzzword. I understand that. Um, I use it loosely and probably throw it around and add to that. So, um, my bad. But if you have somebody that's negative, you have somebody that your team doesn't love working around, they're not a hungry human being. They don't maybe share some of the core values within your company. Not maybe that they're really far off morally, legally, ethically. Right. But you. But they just, like, aren't the core values of your company. Again, what's going to happen when you put them around people that are that. Right. Sometimes that person will rise up and meet everybody else's. Other times, we know what happens. The apple analogy that we let off with, they're going to bring everybody else down to their level. Okay. I. I talked in a social post recently about letting your culture be the hedge of protection for your business. I've seen this with events, I've seen this with organizations. Um, you know, there's a lot of, you know, events out there that, um. Like, for example, uh, I know Nick Slavic's retreat. Um, like, the culture at those events is so solid that if there's somebody that maybe could be on the fence, um, or we're not, you know, not sure how they are as a person or whatever, like, the culture is either gonna help shape them into becoming the person they want to be, um, or it's gonna be pretty obvious that they don't fit in with the culture of that. Right. And so. And I'm not just using Nick's event as an example. I just know that, like, the culture there is so cool to, to see and be a part of. Um, that it's almost like its own little hedge of protection. And I think it's the same thing in our businesses that, you know, when your culture is good, if you've got two or three really good employees that are bought in core values, everything. Yeah, that. That negative, that bad apple can erode them and bring them down a little bit. But when the culture's so good. Number one, there's a chance that it's going to pull that person up. Or two, it's just going to make it really obvious and really easy for you to let that person go. Cause it's going to be pretty obvious that they just don't fit right now, Again, I don't mean fit is in. Like, they're weird, they're kooky. Right? I think this is where culture becomes a buzzword. It's like, if I'm being honest, if I had an entire team of people that were exactly like me, uh, uh, I don't know that our business would be thriving the way that it is, if I'm being honest. Like, we need balance, right? We need everybody to be a little bit different. We need, you know, people that have different opinions and stuff. Right? Like, it's a good, healthy thing. I don't need everybody on the team to be exactly like me. Um, that's really scary to think about. I'm sure my wife probably has nightmares if that was the case. But my point being, we have to understand that there's a difference between culture fit in a business sense, and, like, personal, um, style, personal characteristics. Right. Um, now, not everybody has to be exactly like you. Like, at one point, we had a team of people. This is actually hilarious. Cause they're not here anymore. But early on, we had a team of people that, like, they weren't sports people. That's okay. It was different. I had to learn how to connect with them. Again, it's really funny because they're not here anymore. So, um, I'm rethinking a lot about the culture in our business. I'm gonna. I'll process that after I finish recording this. Um, but, like, we don't need everybody to be exactly like we are. We don't need everybody to like what we like. We don't need everybody to talk about what we talk about. Um, we need them to be good employees that can show up, that are coachable and follow processes and pay attention to detail. Right? So just be mindful of that. When we talk about culture, it's not like the personality fit or the personal interests and. And that type of thing. Um, it's more on the work characteristics of it. Okay. Um, so let's talk about letting people go. Okay. Um. Your culture's made it obvious we have to let a bad apple go more times than not. What we see is that productivity increases, the morale definitely increases, and sometimes things get produced at a better level than when the person was there. Right? Um, I know for a fact that. That I've never had a client regret letting a bad apple go. They've never came to me six months later and be like, man, you know who I still wish was here? John. Whoever the name is, Right? Um. Man, we really wish John was still around. No, your employees don't regret John not being there anymore. I'm sorry if your name's John listening to this. All right? Nobody regrets that. Okay. Um, a lot of times we're going to see productivity increase. And, you know, I firmly believe this. The worst business decisions get made in times of desperation. And usually in a situation like this, we keep people around longer than we should, knowing we should let them go because we feel like we need them. And that's not a great business strategy. Okay, um, In. As I talk about this again, usually it's like, well, yeah, but we've got all this backlog of work, and we need to get this done. And, you know all these things, and you're right. But sometimes what we find is you let that bad apple go, and your team produces the same amount of work. Right, with one less person. And so we think we're doing the right thing. We think we need this person because we have to get this work done. We have to hit our numbers, right? We have a. You know, our north star metric is 80k a month. We have to produce that. If I let this person go, we're down a person, or maybe we're already down one, so now we're down two, and I have to keep this person here. And I would argue you actually don't. And if you get really good at hiring fast and recruiting people, like, you're going to make the decisions you easily need to make, because you're not making it for the wrong reasons, Right? You're not making it in a time of desperation because you have people that you can recruit. You have a list of 10 people that you've already talked to, kind of vetted that maybe one or two of them can start in the next three weeks. I know that sounds crazy, but I see painters that do it. They have a list, eight to 10 to 15 people that they've kind of screened. You know, maybe they've recruited and gone through and said, hey, we're not hiring right now, but at some point we're gonna be. I bet you one or two of them might jump, right? So here's what I want to say. If you're in that situation where you have to produce X amount of dollars, because that's what you have to do to be profitable. And you've got a couple people on your team that you know aren't the right long term fit. Okay, Here, I want to give you a plan on what you can do to solve this. I never just come with problems and then not try to provide some thoughts or solutions. Uh, number one, in the meantime, isolate the bad apples as best as you can. Find a way for them to be an asset in your company any way possible. Um, and have them negatively influence the least amount of people. Right? Sometimes we get lucky. And these bad apples are actually pretty good at working by themselves. Well, guess what? Guess who's going and knocking out all the two bedroom projects, right? Or the bedroom and bathroom or like the little projects right now. Again, if they can work independent, if they can, you know, represent and make the customers happy. You know, we've, I've seen this before where people just aren't good with other people in the team. But customers like them and they can do stuff great. Find a way. If they can be an asset, some way shape or form in the meantime. Um, and again, don't just justify them being an asset. Make sure they're actually being an asset. Producing, you know, and making, making you money for your business. So sometimes we can isolate them apart. Right? Maybe it's two guys. And you put those two guys together. And again, assuming customer service and quality is there. Great. We're just gonna let that be while you're isolating the bad apples. Right? Again, think back to the fruit analogy. If you have an apple that's rotting and you keep it five feet away from any other fruit in your house, that fruit's probably going to be okay. Right? Um, so in the meantime, while you're isolating the bad apples, start recruiting yesterday, okay? Get names, get people, get interviews lined up, start making moves. And I understand that this isn't just like an overnight thing, but probably one of the best things you're gonna do is you're gonna let these people go and you're gonna bring in some fresh people that your good culture can take with them and they can write up with them. Okay? So start recruiting, isolate the bad apples, and what I would then say is start kind of a termination plan for these people. Like if we know this is where it's going to. Okay, we need to kind of have a termination plan in place. We're going to hope that we can just kind of drive them out and get them to quit. That's always the best bet, right? For unemployment, for every reason. We just want to get them to quit. So we're going to, you know, put them by themselves, give them the crappy jobs, maybe have a realistic conversation like, hey, like, you know, is this really like where you want to be at, like long term? Are you enjoying this? Blah, blah, blah. Sometimes I'm like, ah, uh, you're right. You know, don't fire them. See if you can get them to quit. But in the meantime, what I, uh, want you guys to do, and if you don't already have some of this in place, get it in place. Um, if you have some of this in place, this is where you would need to utilize it. This is where having employee agreements, employment agreements, employee agreements, employee handbooks, comes in key. Okay. This is where we need to document things and have an HR and write people up for when they violate the things in their employment agreement, their employee handbook, etc. Right. Showing up on time, right. They're 20 minutes late. Great. There's a write up, right? We can start documenting these things. This also is helpful too. Again, if they do file unemployment against you, um, it's good to have where you should have an employee file with every employee you have and any issues, reviews, everything goes in there. Um, so again, if you don't have this, get it in place, have everybody, you have to have them sign a copy that they've received the handbook and reviewed it, whatever. But then you can start kind of holding them accountable. Right? And this is where you're not going to sit there with the stopwatch. And they showed up at 8:01 instead. 8:00 clock, and like you're late, right? I'm talking the like, obvious things. We're not trying to be a jerk about this, but here's why this is so important. Um, typically, not always, but typically, you've got somebody that's a bad apple in your company and they're negative and they're grumpy and they're miserable and nobody wants to be around them. They don't always go away the easiest. Okay, Sometimes they do again. Sometimes you can get them to quit. Sometimes I was like, yeah, you know what? I'm out of here. See ya. But we want to make sure we got all of our, you know, I's dotted and T's crossed. Right? Want to make sure that they don't feel like you ever, you know, let them go unfairly or discriminated against them or whatever it is. I, I've heard stupid stories. Just about all of them turned out fine, by the way. But I want documentation, I want proof I don't want them to be able to go file unemployment against me. Because again, if they're really not a great apple, they usually don't just go away easily. Right. Think back to like, somebody that would be a great culture fit and you let them go, they usually just kind of move on with their lives. Cause they're mature, right? There was just maybe some reason you had to let them go. When you got somebody that's just not 100 mature, they don't usually go away easily. So let's document, let's do everything properly. Let's make sure we have that in place. Again, if you don't have these things, try to do it soon. Um, but if nothing else, have it for future things. Okay? So the last thing I'm gonna say, I think your crew will actually thank you. And I've had this happen before with clients that we finally got them to let somebody go that we've known for a while needed to go. They just couldn't get themselves to do it. And I respect that. Their, um, crew actually ends up being like, thank you. Thank you for caring about us. Thank you for taking care of us. Thank you for making us, you know, not making us work with them again, whatever it is. And that's always hilarious to me, right? Because we think like, oh, ah, this person's probably, probably not doing good. But we don't think like they're doing damage. That's why I wanted to bring the apple analogy into this episode. Because we think like, ah, uh, they're not like, not crushing it for us, but like, at the end of the day, like, they're still doing some paint jobs and doing stuff. You don't realize what they may be doing to the culture. They might, how they, their attitude is rubbing off on everybody else. Okay? So protect your people, protect your culture, protect the reputation you've worked so tirelessly to build, and don't let one bad apple create a ripple effect throughout your organization. Thanks for plugging into this week's episode. I hope you're able to take a few nuggets away from it to implement into your business. Remember, knowledge without implementation is useless. If you're curious about what we do and how we help painting contractors all over North America, schedule a free business analysis meeting with us at www.elitebusinessadvisors.com. our entire team of advisors have ran and managed painting companies just like myself and are here to help support you on your journey. We have packages available for contractors at every stage of business, from flying solo and just starting out all the way to multimillion dollar businesses. And lastly, if you love this episode, please leave us a rating and a review. It helps others on the platform find our podcast and it could be the best blessing that's ever happened to them. Thanks to you. Thanks for plugging in and we'll see you back for next week's episode. M.