The Singles: The hot hits of June with The World Cup, Spotify, Brew Dog & The Lotto

Speaker A: Welcome to that's what I Call Marketing, the podcast we hear from the leading lights in the marketing world and listen to their unique insights. Well, we are back with another episode of the Singles. Yes, the Singles are the shorter episodes where along with the team at Tracksuit, we take some of the big marketing stories and we dig deep. We go behind the headlines and find out what the data from Tracksuit Dashboard is telling us about these brands. And it's really interesting and insightful because we get to look at the category they're operating in, the competitive landscape they're working in, and really see why they're doing what they're doing. If you would like to find out more about Tracksuit, you can go directly to gotracksuit.com you can reach out to Ed or Bella or Dan or Jasper or any of the team at Tracksuit who will be willing to show you how the platform works. The power of the data. You're getting, the power of the insights. I'm more than happy to make introductions as well, and I've done that for a number of people. And again, it just gets you into the detail. We talk a lot about the data here, but they actually show you the dashboard. And I have that actually sitting in front of me. If you're watching, you kind of see me looking to the left. It's where I'm looking at the data coming out of the dashboard that gets us real deep insights into the stories that we cover here on the Singles. So listen, let's get right into it with another episode of the Singles with Ed and Bella from Tracksuit. Bella, Ed, great to see you. Another episode of the Singles we've allowed to talk about today. But before we do, I just want to remind people I talked about it, uh, a couple of weeks ago in my episode. Alessandro Manfredi, XCMO of Dove. Oh, wow, what an amazing guy. But it have brought out Tracksuit University and it's incredible. It's connecting marketing, what we talk about and what finance and, um, C Suite talk about and trying to create a shared language. It must be quite exciting for you guys in Tracksuit to see Tracksuit University out in the world.

Speaker B: Absolutely. It's something that we hear almost every day from marketers, which is that they're losing the brand budget argument in the boardroom or with CFOs. So having something that can help equip them with the tools, the talk tracks the templates they need to help communicate the value of brand in a finance friendly way is definitely something that we're excited to get in front of people.

Speaker A: Yeah it's brilliant. And like people after in the course people end up with a one page CFO ready document. So it's really, it's got the theory, it's got the great James Herman who's just enjoyable to watch and be educated by. And like thanks to Tracksuit because you've given a uh 20% discount code for that's what I call marketing audiences. So when people are checking out that's what I call marketing in the discount code space and you get 20% off. So go check it out. It is university got tracksuit.com and I'll stick that in the show notes as well. So well done. Great stuff to see more education for marketers. I love it. I love it. So listen, let's get started. We we'll start with the World Cup I guess unsurprising. Probably one of the biggest events in the world. They've got like 480 teams in the World Cup. So many teams like and England seem to be getting on okay. I think there's a couple angles we can look at it from right point being around how what it's doing for soccer in the US just as a brand, MLS and soccer. So what's kind of some of the data telling us about. About that?

Speaker B: Yeah, definitely. It's going to take me a minute or two to get used to saying soccer instead of football. Yeah, yeah. Just like even just taking a look through my notes I felt awkward typing it. So yeah, football, soccer. Yeah. Really interesting credibility inflection point because it's the league in the United States has been growing over time and the opportunity that the FIFA World Cups in North America over the next five weeks is just amazing for them to be able to try and ride that wave and get soccer or football in front of more people. In terms of the data like their they're at an interesting point because we're tracking the brand in the national sports league in America. So we've gone out to US consumers, asked them if they're watching or engaging with national sports leagues and tracking them alongside brands like the NBA, the NFL, um, MLB, um and interestingly Major League Soccer sits at 49% aided awareness. So just around one in two people who engage with national sports leagues know what it is when you sit that next to NFL at 90%, the NBA 83%, MLB at 82%. The awareness gap is pretty hefty. But awareness not necessarily the main story for them because five months ago, before this year obviously going into the World cup in America and Canada hosting Major League Soccer's ability to convert consumers from being aware of the league to considering even watching the league was at 31% and that's climbed over the past five months to 34% and that was just before the World cup kicked off. It's pretty impressive climb from a conversion standpoint and yeah, something that an always on tracker is always very helpful in catching throughout the year too. So yeah, now the World Cup's underway, I expect hopefully that awareness number to be driving upwards. But also from a, from a conversion standpoint, something that can really engage more people and get more people watching.

Speaker A: And the US is like it's such a big broad market so there could be a match in L A or Atlanta or wherever and the rest of the country may not be aware of it. So it'll be interesting to even see over time how you might even find pockets of the states getting more engaged, getting more aware.

Speaker B: Yeah, we absolutely see that already. It's obviously m a massive country so it's very difficult to be able to drive engagement across the whole country. But in terms of the demographics, we're definitely seeing stronger skews towards younger audiences. So 18s to 34 year olds in that kind of region, they convert much higher, I think 12 points higher than the overall demographic in terms of being aware to actually considering engaging or watching the league preference scores is where it gets quite interesting. Preference for the league is much higher among affluent consumers. So on higher household incomes, but also those on the Pacific coast where you've got a heap of teams, you've got LA Galaxy, you've got lafc, you've got San Diego fc, a handful more of teams on that coast preference in that region tracks versus the 16% category average. So there's definitely a bit more of a skew towards that kind of premium, urban, culturally curious, whatever you want to call it, consumer that is engaging and actually going all the way through the brand funnel for the MLS and that is really interesting.

Speaker A: Like that kind of even the the word over indexes and those household incomes over 100 like because in a lot of markets, football, soccer is historically a working class sport and still probably is in lots of ways and lots of pockets of the globe. It's really interesting that they' finding more success in slightly more affluent areas.

Speaker B: When we look at that feeling of relevance and the league actually being for people like me, that's where we see a few interesting things too. I think the most striking one is that among the people that would consider watching the league being for people like me jumps has jumped 12 percentage points in the last three months. So that's a really interesting kind of point that the league is obviously getting to the point where they're making people feel like it's more for them. And I wonder if that's to do with the World Cup. But also before the World cup they did. The MLS is back with the Call campaign which featured Magic Johnson, it featured Celine Depp. So some really kind of big names in the industry. So I wonder if they're maybe cutting through to more people there. Yeah, but that's, uh, that relevance piece is really strong for this category of national sports leagues. If a league, uh, feels like it's for people like you, then you are, uh, technically 8.4 times more likely to convert from being again aware of a league to considering a league and considering engaging with the league. So it's really about trying to make, make people feel like it's for them. I really liked what Radhika Dougl, who's the chief marketing officer of Major League Soccer, she said to Marketing Brew a few weeks ago. It was all around that people fall in love with like other people when they're engaging with a brand and their goal is all about making sure that the players aren't just seen as football players, but they're seen as people. And that was a really interesting point where I guess getting people to engage with the personal brand of these professional footballers is going to really help drive relevance in the category. Um, I think about Jude Bellingham, you think about Leah Williamson. Probably more for me. Like in rugby, you think about Henry Pollock. Like there are these big names and players where learning more about them as people and engaging with them on a more personal level helps build that relevance and gets buy in for the sport.

Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. I wonder, will they go for like a drive to survive type thing?

Speaker B: Oh, that'd be cool. That would be cool. I mean, like, look how much that worked for Formula One. Right. It's something that people could really buy into the teams, people could buy into the, to the, obviously the drivers. And that drove engagement significantly.

Speaker C: Quite scary because they get a lot of backlash, don't they, to like let themselves into your personal life? It's like unlike any other sport. Right. It just must be terrifying. Think of like David Beckham and his documentary and stuff like that. I don't think I'd want to do it.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Ah,

Speaker A: you keep the money.

Speaker C: Yeah, they make enough. Anyway.

Speaker A: The other interesting piece end up with the World cup, obviously, is the brands that are involved with the World cup and sponsorships and um, it is always interesting. I love as much the brands that aren't official sponsors and what I see them do, like any night, Pepsi, whatever. But the brands that are sponsored, you guys have some data on kind of how they're that connection to the World Cup?

Speaker B: Yeah, definitely. I just want to go like before, I think it was Dan Oates and Leah Spears who had run the marketing team at Paddy Power, they did the Paddy Power campaign with. It was like this huge balloon in the shape of pants or for our American viewers, in the shape of underwear. And it's all about how ticket prices are pants. And they did it right over the Hollywood sign. And like that is just fantastic. Doing something like that, that challenges something that really like hits you in the field and you agree with and can really resonate with and something that out there. Ah, so they've done a cool job doing that.

Speaker A: Sorry, just generally they've done some. They've done some really interesting stuff. So they're. They've done the batter billboard for Scotland. So they created a huge billboard and it's covered in batter. So an Irish agency called Oranges and Lemons were part of that. So that's to support Scotland.

Speaker B: Then here.

Speaker A: It's so good. And then in Dublin airport they had a. They have a huge billboard in Dublin airport and saying, we took, we paid for this billboard months ago thinking Ireland would get in. Thanks, Dan, for marketing. And it's just like they're so. So Paul Mallon is the head of marketing there and um, Michelle Spilan is Maryland. But constantly they get the tonality just so right, don't they? It's a great brand.

Speaker C: It's such a fun industry. I think all the advertising and branding in that industry is so fun. We're speaking to a company called Dabble the other day who did a Peter Crouch campaign where it was like everybody who looks like Peter Crouch and how long can they crouch for? And somebody crouched like eight hours. And it was brilliant. So many people got involved.

Speaker A: Oh.

Speaker B: But back to the sponsorship. So we've, yeah, we've been tracking the sponsors from the World cup, looking at audiences who say they're going to be watching and asking those audiences what they think and feel about these brands. And the date tells a really nice story from. In terms of like long term marketing and those long term marketers are going to love it. And the fact that you've got Coca Cola, uh, you've got Adidas and you've got McDonald's, like three brands that have been sponsoring the World cup for, uh, I think Coca Cola and Adidas since the 70s, McDonald's since the 90s. So they're obviously been doing it for so long. And they are the top three brands that are holding top spots for awareness, consideration and preference. That's a really nice way to show that compounding brand investment really shows up in the brand funnel. And then you've got the Chinese dairy brand among you. I don't know if I've pronounced that correctly.

Speaker A: You did a better job than I would have done. Let me just say that beforehand I was like, no. So I'm going to give it to

Speaker B: you, uh, a couple of Googles to help get me there. But yeah, Chinese dairy brand that obviously China didn't even qualify for the World Cup. So that's an interesting move anyway. But they are lowest in terms of overall awareness. But they leave the whole category on being a brand that people like more because they've sponsored the FIFA World Cup. So 46% of people feel that way ahead of brands like Adidas and Coca Cola, where only around 30% of those people feel that way in terms of liking them more because they're sponsoring. So despite the lower overall awareness, that sponsorship generating I guess a real warmth or. Yeah. Affinity towards the brand because of that sponsorship.

Speaker A: Yeah. I'd be honest, I didn't know they were one of the sponsors and partners. But yeah, know, for example, lays huge in the States, but like they're huge in Europe as well and they're activating really well against it. So the brilliant Johnny Cahill is CMO of their international business. So listen, another Irish guy, I mean just aim for Cape Verde, do marketing in America. All the good ones leave.

Speaker C: Didn't make it into the World cup though.

Speaker B: I wasn't going to do it. I wasn't going to do,

Speaker A: uh. I did walk into it, didn't I? Didn't I? Well listen, we'll move on from World cup and we'll talk a bit about one of the things in this month that just threw marketers into an absolute. Well, maybe more than marketers might be a little bit unfair, but we definitely. Marketing had a bit of a hissy fit about the Spotify 20th anniversary logo and a changing for. Well it was meant to be a couple of weeks. I think it ended up. Might have been a couple of days. I thought this was in like mad, like people lost their about this.

Speaker C: It went viral. I'm of the same opinion. It was. I think the reaction was pretty brutal and as you said, it was really quick. Like it was meant to be on there for a bit longer and it got taken down early and people called it hideous. They called it AI Slop. They said that they couldn't find their app on their phone anymore, which is funny because it's where it's always been. I think people were a wee bit dramatic about it. And it's interesting because a lot of the criticism was around it being AI Slop. And then it turned out that it was actually like 23% of the criticism online was through AI bots. So it's AI bots criticizing AI slop, which is just, like, weird in itself. But despite the controversy, it was quite a success. Like, it went viral and everybody was speaking about it, uh, to the point where they even said maybe Spotify did it on purpose and were controversial. Uh, on purpose. And like, the brands I. Huge brands like KitKat, Notion, Duolingo, they all jumped on it and made, like, disco bowl logos, which was fun and I'm loving that side of marketing at the moment. We spoke about it with KitKat a couple of weeks ago, where brands are kind of taking the mick out of each other in a really playful way, which I'm really enjoying. But, yeah, everyone was talking about it. Uh, so it was a success. I'm of the opinion that I didn't really understand the backlash.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: Um, I thought that maybe. I think that brands are kind of, especially like, tech brands are kind of showing up in the same way and doing something distinctive and making yourself more memorable is actually a really good thing. We're seeing a lot of the same logos or, like, similar. Uh, a lot of the same branding. There's a lot of black and white, and I just think, change it up. Do something different. We don't want to all look the same. You want to be remembered, don't you? What do you guys think?

Speaker A: Like, so I saw and I was m. I was immediately going, uh, what is it? Like, what's going on for Spotify? I knew, like, in my head, I was like, there have. They have to be celebrating something that has to be marking something, or so I immediately was. I knew it was Spotify. So, like. Yeah, because all the elements of the brand were there. It felt different, disruptive. So I wanted to know. I was curious then to know it was. And then I went in and saw. When did I first play the song Spotify? What was my first song like? All that. I was like, that's so. It was so cool. So I was really. I was. I'm here for it. Like, it was.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: And I don't know if you saw Andrew Tindall's. I think he was in Australia at an event. Did you see his thing about all the other apps on phones?

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: Yes. The gum hole report you can't argue with was brilliant.

Speaker A: I was like, that is so funny.

Speaker B: I was one of those people that couldn't find it and like, couldn't find the. I don't know what. Maybe it's like a. The way your brain's wired. But I. Yeah, you go to open it up and you're like, where is it? And it's. You're right, it's in exactly the same space. But I think because it was maybe a little bit darker that you think, oh, uh, is it like, does it need downloading again or something?

Speaker C: But yeah, that's so funny. Of course you couldn't find it. Ad. I think the thing is as well, like, it's Spotify, they've earned, um, the right to do something like this. They have huge brand equity and like looking at the Tracksuit metrics, they have 88% awareness, which is like the number one leader of the category. I think there are 11% ahead of Apple Music. They completely dominate it. So why not do something different? Like they've earned this brand equity. Use it, do something like.

Speaker A: Yeah, that's what I was looking. Yeah. When I was looking the data as well, I was like, like they have such strong awareness and they were probably looking at it going like at this level of awareness, like they're not fundamentally changing it, they were keeping it. So. Yeah. Like some of them are stats though, that are really interesting. Like where they're like the conversion is incredible from into consideration, isn't it?

Speaker C: Yeah, it's. 66% of people who are aware of Spotify are converted into considering Spotify, which is huge and like considerations really where it's at with that because once you start considering, you're more likely to move down. Yeah. I think that they are just an amazing brand and they've done enough work so they can get away with stuff like this. If it was maybe a different brand, the reaction, maybe they couldn't get away with something like that. But I'm all, let's do something different. Let's shake it up a bit and make it a bit more interesting. But I guess the other side of it is people, whether they know it or not, have an emotional attachment to things. Yeah, logos. Even if you don't know that you

Speaker A: do you take a look at. Do you remember what your first song on Spotify was? Did you check it out?

Speaker C: I didn't. I don't know why I didn't, but I can tell you it'd be Justin Bieber.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker C: What was yours?

Speaker A: It was Radiohead. Karma Police.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Ed, do you know you didn't, you couldn't find the app. Have you found it since?

Speaker B: I still not found it. Yeah, I've converted to Apple Music. Cool.

Speaker A: Well, listen, we move on to our next story and it's about, it's kind of Brew Dog and we've talked about, we talked about Brew Dog a couple times, the singles before and just kind of how it was like such a strong brand and then just kind of in decline.

Speaker B: Uh, I think it was September last year. You spoke about it with Dan and Jasper. Yeah, uh, the date wasn't looking fantastic at that time and I think obviously a lot has changed since then. It was sold to Tilray Brands, 33 million back in March. And that's, yeah, it's tough to hear for a brand that was once valued at 2 billion. So it's a 98% collapse in value over five years, which is really tough. 500 jobs gone. So, yeah, really devastating for the brand and the team. And obviously since James Wat has announced the launch of uh, a new brand, second best, a new beer brand that if you were uh, uh, if you had Brewdog, if you were Brewdog, Equity punk is I think how they referred them, the people who were investing in Brewdog at the time. He's now offered them the exact same percentage equity stake that they held in Brewdog for the new brand. So he's kind of transferred that over. But before we get into that and a little bit more on that, yeah, the brand metrics were kind of tough. I think when we looked at the last 12 months of data it kind of confirms that the trajectory that they were on was just continuing to nosedive. Really. Awareness held up. Around 65% of people are aware of the brand. But a fifth of the brand's consideration base had uh, dropped in the last 12 months. A third of users, a third of people buying the product had gone and then preference nearly halved. So really tough metrics to be looking at from a brand perspective. And a lot of the uh, I think the biggest die dip that we saw in usage and preference coincided with the time that they were sold off to Tilray, which was, yeah, pretty tough to see as well.

Speaker A: It's bad because like the product itself hasn't, like it hasn't changed, it hasn't decreased in quality. Like it's Just a re. It's pure, it's a brand story, isn't it really?

Speaker B: It is. And you can really start digging into that and the why behind that. When you think about trust and relevance and building relevance, they had such a niche target audience like that kind of very much punk behavior. The people that were kind of not afraid to kind of, I don't know, like just not afraid to challenge the kind of corporate norms. It was really about like that kind of audience. But I think they just lost a lot of that. Only 21 of people who were aware of Brewdog said that it was for people like them. So it's already quite a narrow group of people. And then when you look at that specific audience as well, they ended up decreasing in terms of the relevance for that specific audience. And that is one of those things. That relevance in a beer category is 2.6 times more likely to get someone to actually consider buying a beer. So if you're starting to lose that with that core audience that you kind of have built your business on, it's a really tough thing to, to be able to uh, to work through.

Speaker A: Yeah. It's gonna be interesting to see now what happens then with this new brand that's being launched by the founder. Right. Like obviously kind of going, I'm gonna go again. Oh well he is going again. But like, you know, he's looking probably at the mistakes maybe he made. They made like it's fascinating.

Speaker B: Yeah, they already got 10, I think it's 10,000 people signed up for the equity that they had previously. And I think on the one hand that sounds like a good number. On the other hand, like if you've lost your equity and Brewdog and you can transfer that over to second best, like it's a no brainer if. I'm sure there's some rogue tax implications somewhere along the line. But apart from that it's free money that you're going to just transfer over to a new brand. So it's a bit of a no brainer to do it if you were uh, uh, an equity punk. But I guess the naming is an interesting one too. I want to dig into that. Like best, it's the most anti marketing, anti corporate name that you can probably have. And I think what he's trying to do there is like maybe disarming the. Is it just brewdog 2.0 before anyone else can have a go at it?

Speaker A: Yeah, like second best is you're saying you're not good by being second best, but then what was it? Is it Avis had the famous ads in the 60s. I don't, I wasn't there. I didn't see them but like I know of them. M. Big, huge billboards were. We're second. So we try harder.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker A: I don't know if there's something in that where they're gonna go with that,

Speaker C: but I love it. I think if you own it, it's so much more powerful. Like, yeah, you made him or you made mistakes or whatever. It's not, it didn't work out. Own that, uh, and come back stronger.

Speaker B: Yeah, I'm really interested in just other like quite founder led brands now as well because like it raises a really interesting point which is does that challenge a brand DNA that James built Brewdog on, Does that travel with him? Does that go over to second best to people follow that. Do they trust him? Do they kind of, do they feel like they've still got that um, equity in the brand through him or does that stay behind with Brewdog? And now it's almost like starting from scratch again. It's really interesting around community marketing, like can you build a really strong community of people? Is that through the founder? Is that through the brand? And does it carry with you? So now I've got my eyes on Tom Holland with Bero, like Sergeant Ratcliffe with Ineos, like the actions of a founder and how does that impact. Yeah. The performance of a brand and yeah, very interesting to see how that takes shape.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And we've talked before on the things about Musk and the impact that was having on Tesla. Again he's, he stepped back into the business because I think he recognized, he probably listened to the singles and was like, oh wow, my tracksuit data is not good. I bet you he did. I bet you that's what happened 100%. Well listen, we go on to our last story which is kind of a, an Ireland, New Zealand story connection. Bit like tracksuit. And that's what I call marketing really. And it's not about tracks and that's what I call marketing but a bit uh, of probably ad line controversy. I think people outside Outland won't be looking at this work going. I've seen people, people watch this ad and go, I just don't like it. That's a very different thing to what, what happened. So the Irish National Lottery released a new ad in the last couple of weeks and caused a bit of furore because it was taken from a New Zealand ad, uh, from 2018 or 2019, scene for scene. So the brief to the agency was create this ad exactly the same. No, not, don't. No, not to be inspired by it. It's not like, I love this, uh, we all do references like, I like this work, I like that work. Let's be inspired by that. It was like, just do the ad scene by scene. Now, uh, that's caused a big conversation around kind of just integrity, creative ideation. Do you value an agency when you're asking them to do that? Probably the agency situation where they're in kind of going, well, like, what do we do here? Because it's a client to the big client. The National Lottery is like the biggest client probably in this country. And so what do you do? So it's a really interesting kind of. It's more of a philosophical debate then, but you got a brand that's really strong. Right. It has a monopoly in this market here. And we. Museum lottery work is actually always really good. I'd often look at it and go, that's a great ad. And so where, like, yeah, I'd love to get your guys take on it not being in the market. So you've no spin in the game

Speaker C: if you're gonna copy like for, like, and have the same script and have the same everything. Well, I just don't think you should. I think you can copy and you can change it slightly without just changing the accents of the actors in the advert. Like put your own little spin on it or, I don't know, own the fact that you've copied it and make a statement, small jokey reference to it. Yeah, or something. I think if you're going to do that, then, yeah, you need to make it your own in some way. Otherwise it's just perceived as kind of lazy. People on the other side were saying, well, it worked in New Zealand, so why not use it? And I agree. I thought. I actually really liked the ad. I thought it was as two men who speak about, like, what they would do if they won the lottery. And that's so relatable. Like, I've spoken to Ed about that probably 100 times at the pub. I've spoken to probably everyone in my life about that and it's so deeply personal that I think it's just automatically got that emotional feel to it, to the ad. So it was a good ad and I see why they'd want to use it, but do something a little bit differently, I think.

Speaker A: Yeah, like that insight is an. Is a great insight and it's actually an insight that they kind of used for one of the Other ads which was husband and wife slightly talking about that, but so it's kind of there. And they could have unlocked the inside and they could have put those people in any other situation. That's the bit where I was like, like exactly the same. Like you could follow the structure of the story, but put them on a, uh, like a train going to work. And to your point, I think they could have just made some changes, be inspired by the work and the insight and then. Yeah, it just seemed bizarre. Ed, do you disagree with us?

Speaker B: I think when. Especially because of AI and how easy it is to create things these days, like, distinctiveness is a real super power for brands and you want to be distinctive. You want to be like no other. You want to stand out from the crowd. And that also helps you be memorable. You should try and be distinct from other brands, from other entities out there. So, yeah, I feel like it's just a bit of a shortcut and a bit of a laziness to marketing.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: It's not like budgets weren't an issue. Like, because production values are high, Creativity not an issue. Like the team in that agency, like, I know them and they're really good. Like, they're really creative people. They do the amazing bank of Ireland work. That's just come out. That's where I'm kind of confused. Like, you have budgets, you have talent, and you went down this route. It just seemed a bit odd.

Speaker C: They've got the resources and it's interesting. We do track, obviously a lot of different brands across the different. A load of different categories and two of the biggest drivers to make people convert and start considering you is being like no other and really standing for something. They drive people through the funnel and that's really important. So, yeah, you do need to be like no other. It's. It's important across categories, across markets to. Everyone agrees on that. So, yeah, I think we should have done something a bit differently.

Speaker A: Yeah, look. What's that saying? Yesterday's newspaper is today's chip wrapping. Like, it's. It'll be dead and buried soon. I don't think you can legally use paper as chip wrapping anymore, but they used to back in the day. Well, not saying I wasn't around for the start of that thing either, just to be clear. Yeah, yeah, Uh, I need to stop these old, uh, isms. But yeah, it's just. Yeah, it'll be a story that moves on. But do you know what, the bit for me as well, I would imagine, again, probably I'm thinking about the agency because, like, I spent a lot of time at agencies and I understand the challenge there because you're looking at the budget, the production budget, when you're thinking about the sustainability of your agency. But I'm sure that hurt and I'm sure as well they were. The backlash hurt even more because I'm sure they were hoping it wouldn't happen. And people from other agencies have come out, like Ken Robinson from the 10th man, who do a lot of actually, the amazing Padi power work we talked about. He's come out and said, nah, like, that's not cool. He shouldn't have done it. So, yeah, I'm sure it'll move on, but it's. Look, it's not easy being a marketer, it's not easy being an agency. But I think when you have the privilege of the budgets and the expertise they have, I think they could have done. They could have done more Practit University.

Speaker C: Good timing.

Speaker B: Very good,

Speaker A: guys. Well, thanks a million. And speaking of tracks at university. Yeah. Don't forget to go check it out. It is, of course, neither of you need to check it out. University.gotracksuit.com and 20 discount for. That's what I call marketing. Audiences just put in. That's what I call marketing into the checkout discount code area. And again, it's such a brilliant thing from Tracksuit and leveraging the amazing James Herman and all his knowledge and his new book, Future Demand is out. So, yeah, uh, brilliant. Listen, guys, thank you so much as always. Thoroughly enjoyed it. We'll be back next month with another episode of the Singles.

Speaker C: Thank you.

Speaker A: Cheers. If you want to find out more about TrackSuit, go to gotraxu.com and find out how they can be your affordable, always on brand tracking dashboard.