Make People Feel Something: Leadership with Kevin Paul Scott

Speaker A: I have a friend who's a police officer in inner city Atlanta in a challenging area, the area around Mercedes Benz Stadium. And I made a statement to him one time that I ended up regretting. I said, man, I bet you deal with some rough folks. And I'll never forget what he said. He said, kevin, most of the time I deal with good people on their worst days. He understood a principle that, ah Zig Ziglar used to say that the way we see people is the way we treat them.

Speaker B: Welcome back to the Wake Up Eager podcast where we focus on helping you build a high commitment, low drama, Wake Up Eager workplace, and a life you cannot wait to wake up to. I'm Susie Price, the founder of Priceless Professional Development and the producer and host of this podcast. And this is episode 155. The title is Making Guests Feel How Leaders Create Experiences People Want to Return to. And it is with Kevin Paul Scott. The show notes for today's episode can be found@prelessprofessional.com KevinPaul Scott pricelessprofessional.com KevinPaul Scott and that's with Scott with two T's. So what makes someone feel genuinely seen, not managed, not processed or impressed, but truly valued? Today's guest, Kevin Paul Scott believes that making people feel something is the starting point for meaningful connection and action. But this is not about manufactured emotion, polished leadership techniques, or simply just being really nice. It is about us bringing authenticity and intentionality to our meetings with others. And when we bring both of those together, there's a difference that happens in the relationship. Kevin is a world traveled author, speaker, entrepreneur and leadership expert whose work has taken him around the world. He, uh, does reside here in Georgia, where I'm from, I'm in North Georgia, he's in Atlanta. He and his team have created leadership programs for organizations like Chick Fil? A and Coca Cola. And he has a gift for turning big ideas into practical actions. And you'll see that in our conversation today. We talk about why everything speaks. So I like that. Talks about that everything speaks. So the way you show up, the way you interact, your vibe, why you listen, speaks to the individuals around you and determines your relationship with them long term. And so this is a conversation about how leaders can balance results with relationships, how challenging that could be, and how to figure out that right balance, uh, why accountability can be an act of care. So having those tough, straightforward conversations takes a lot of work and it's sometimes challenging and leaders can sometimes shy away from it. But if you take the time to do that. You're giving somebody a gift because you're letting them know that they need to be accountable for something in particular.

Speaker C: And if you don't share it, they

Speaker B: might lose their job or they'll never learn to make it different. And so accountability really is an act of care. And to begin seeing it like that so that we can become better leaders and the small, uh, things that we can do that make people feel seen and remembered. We also had fun exploring Kevin's Talent Insights assessment results. He and his team use the Talent Insights assessment in their business, I think with clients. And that is covered in our Wake Up, Bigger Strengths segment that we typically have with guests. And we're going to look at how his natural communication style and motivators shape the work he was really built to do. He's such a good match for the good work he's doing. So I found this conversation thoughtful, practical, and full of moments that you're going to want to carry into your own leadership and relationships. I've always been a fan of Kevin Paul Scott. I'm so glad he was on the podcast and I'm eager to share it with you. So we're going to focus on waking up eager and we're going to focus on learning how to help people feel something. Let's go to the episode now.

Speaker C: All right. Kevin, it is so good to see you.

Speaker A: It's great to see you too. This is great. We're not that far from each other. We should have felt like we should be in person right now.

Speaker C: Virtual works, too. When you're in Atlanta, Georgia, the travel is a lot longer than it would seem, right?

Speaker A: That is true.

Speaker C: So let's jump right in. You've got an amazing career in business. You've inspired me, and you do every time I read one of your newsletters or see what you're doing. So we're honored to have you here today. You've worked all over the world, been to, I think, a hundred countries. You've written five books. You've got leadership academies that you've built for well known names like Chick Fil A and Coca Cola and more. Where did all this begin for you? And then was there a moment when you realized the subject of our topic today, which is how we make people feel shapes, what happens next? So talk a little bit about your beginning and comments around that.

Speaker A: Yeah, Susie, it's interesting because I would have probably two weeks ago, I would have answered this question. I would have started back when I was 23 or 24, kind, uh, of early in my career. But about a week ago, I spoke to the school system that I graduated from. And so I started in the process of that, going back further in time. And I found something that was pivotal in my career and I shared with them. So I'm going to go back further with you for that one. When I was in middle school, I was a high potential student, but not a high performer. Like, I had the ability, but I didn't put in the work I needed to a lot. And there was, um, a teacher in eighth grade. Her name was Margaret Wingate. She's since passed away, but she just had a profound impact on my life. And I found a paper that I had saved. It was a paper on the Vietnam War, and I had a 70 on it, but my grade was reduced from a 70 to a 60 because I had turned it in late, which was typical of things that I did at that time. And she wrote this narrative, this paragraph on the bottom of the paper. She returned to me and she said this. She said, um, kevin, if you ever realize your full potential and you actually apply yourself, there will be no stopping you. And that word, she spoke into my life, really, it started to change the way that I saw myself and I saw what, what I wanted to do. But here's what's interesting. The words were important, but really the reason she had the ability to say those words and speak into my life is because of the relationship she had built with me throughout the course of the year. Because anybody else can say that. My parents told me all the time how you had, uh, potential, why don't you apply yourself? But when you can create a connection with somebody where they feel something, you then have the opportunity to speak into their life in a way that is totally different. And I think the best leaders do this with their employees. The best brands do this even with their customers. They create connections. And for me, it really started way back then. And that journey that I've been on is, how do you leverage those relationships to help inspire people?

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: She looked into you and saw your possibility, not just the present, which is amazing. Um, my was a music teacher, Mrs. Fant. I was in fifth grade, and she picked me to play Jiminy Cricket. And it's like, why did she think that I could be in front of people? You know?

Speaker A: Why?

Speaker C: You know, my parents are really proud of that.

Speaker B: Even today.

Speaker C: Well, they're not living, but if they were, they would even talk about it. But it's interesting. Yes. Seeing into who you are, not exactly what you're doing in the moment.

Speaker A: That's so true.

Speaker C: That is so beautiful.

Speaker A: It's so true.

Speaker C: So talk a little bit more about how making people feel something. Share a little bit more about what that means to you, and just talk about that.

Speaker A: Oh, uh, there's so many areas here. Uh, let me start with this. So our business called Atto Addo is the Latin word for inspire. And we launched, really, out of a program that we created for Chick Fil? A called Chick Fil? A Leader Academy. It's a, ah, way that their local restaurants are able to impact high school students. And we developed it on the back of a methodology we call Engage, Expose, Equip, Engage. People is about connecting with them, meeting them, um, where they are. Then you expose them to a principle or a practice or a methodology, and then you equip them to put it into practice. And what I kept finding over the years is the people that do what you do, the people who train, who speak to audiences, who develop leaders, who pour into organizations, Some of them are so good at their content, but they don't ever connect on the first part of how somebody feels. And making somebody feel something really is the prerequisite to moving them to action. And you can apply that in a lot of different ways. Let's apply it internally in organizations. There's a report by the UNC Kenan Flagler School of Business about why people are leaving for other companies. And most of it is not about compensation. It's about, do they feel seen? Do they feel valued? Do they feel appreciated? When you look at businesses, we do a lot with Chick Fil? A. I love the Chick Fil? A sandwich. I'm not telling you it's the best in the world. It may be, it may not be. But one of the things they've done well is they have consistently helped people feel cared for at scale. And so the journey we've been on lately as a business is how do we help people better connect with the audiences they want to serve? And you cannot connect authentically without connecting emotionally. And so if you're going to connect emotionally, somebody's got to feel something. And by the way, when I say that, I think especially we're talking about Chick Fil? A. A lot of times people, Susie, think about these warm, fuzzy feelings. But as I've been diving into it, really, a lot of different emotions drive behavior. So there is happiness, there's humor that makes people feel something. But sometimes sadness makes you feel something. You've seen a commercial that Publix has, like the tearjerker commercials. In the south, anger. In politics, they use a lot of anger now, but you get mad enough about something, you'll move to action. So I think making somebody feel something is about leveraging emotion. Not in a manipulative way, but in an authentic way that helps connect with people with the goal of moving them to action.

Speaker C: Uh, I like it. It's the emotion, it's the authenticity.

Speaker A: Remember, um, Maya Angelou said people will forget what you said, they'll forget what you did, but they'll never forget how you made them feel?

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, that's it.

Speaker A: People say that over and over because it's true.

Speaker C: Ask a group of people who their best boss was and the conversation will be pretty mild. Ask them who their worst boss was and wow, boy, do they remember. They remember the specifics because they remember how that person made them feel and it was not good. So you tie authenticity with this, and I love that quote, how you make them feel. People will never forget that. It is shared a lot, but it is so true. Talk about emotions that shouldn't be manufactured and staying authentic.

Speaker A: It can't be manipulative. So I'm writing a new book on this and I'm going to tell you the Beauthentic here. It's a struggle because you can manufacture the way that you try to connect with people. I mean, I know people that have for years. You ever interact with somebody, it's like they read the book how to Win Friends and Influence people, and on paper they've done everything you're supposed to do, but you interact with them and you feel like, oh, I need to take a bath or something after it. What I say is that those people are intentional, but they're not authentic. And because of that, we feel manipulated. On the other end of the spectrum, you can be authentic. So we can be genuine in our motives, but not intentional in the way we connect with people. And we can leave people frustrated. This is in the South. We're both in South. You'd say, well, bless their heart, or something like, you know, that their motives are good, but they didn't put in the work. And I believe that real connection happens at the intersection of authenticity and intentionality. Authenticity is about your motives. Intentionality is about the effort, and you can't disconnect the two. So when you say what kind of emotions, you gotta consistently check yourself and say, okay, today when I speak to my team out here, I'm at our office. If I'm speaking to our team, I want to leverage emotion to help them buy into something. But I've got to continually run it through a filter. Um, of. Is my motive in the right place for this?

Speaker C: I think the thing that has helped me over the years, because I'm naturally a pretty energetic person.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker C: But that can come across as inauthentic. You know, when I'm friendly. I mean, I have a lot of friends and I like a lot of people. And it has to do with a little bit of my communication style and, you know, all of that, you know, some of the overuse of a strength. But what really got me to what you're talking about, about being, uh, intentional and authentic, was to really know how much it mattered that you put people first.

Speaker A: It's interesting. It's. In the time that I've known you, you will occasionally respond to one of my emails or say something. I always felt you have a natural gift of encouragement, but it comes across authentic. But I can hear what you're saying. People, if they don't know you, they may think, well, she's just saying that. And so it's important.

Speaker C: Yeah. And actually doing it over the years, as I have matured, I'm not getting old, I'm just maturing. I am older, though. It's the idea of the hierarchy and the Hartman stuff. Uh, Robert Hartman work around part one, part of our assessment where it's intrinsic, is greater than extrinsic, is greater than systemic. So how people being with people is greater than the doing is greater than the rule, though all three matter.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker C: Knowing that and then also paying attention to what's happening within me. Am I just saying this because it's easy for me to say, or do I really feel it?

Speaker A: It's almost like we need a checklist. Yeah. Because I would say this. When we say intentional and authentic, I think at different times we lean different ways. Sometimes we're being authentic, and then we're not putting in the intentionality. Some people say, well, it's just who I am. Yeah. Well, we've got to be intentional. But then when we move too far into that direction of being intentional, where it almost feels calculated, we've got to then evaluate, is it real?

Speaker C: Oh, that is good.

Speaker A: I would just. And I'm thinking this out loud as you're saying it. If there's a spectrum of authenticity, intentionality, we've got to always evaluate where we are and be making a, uh, point to move toward the middle.

Speaker C: Yeah. So you can be a very intentional salesperson and think, oh, dollar signs in my eyes as I speak to this person who's the head of XYZ organization. But you gotta dial that back and say, let me be present. That's the other thing is working on trying to be present. That's authenticity. Being present with yourself and present with the person in front of you. And I think becoming a better listener and caring more about what they think than what I want to say is. Is also a big piece of it.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Uh, there's no doubt presence is key.

Speaker C: Presence is key. All right, so let's talk about that, because presence is probably a part of this next part, which is Everything Speaks, which is a great article that you've written, one of your many great articles. Talking about small details, communicate things bigger than what we think sometimes, and we're communicating without realizing it and how to be attentive to those moments. And that ties in with what we were just talking about. What else would you share?

Speaker A: Well, yeah, uh, everything we do communicates. That's the premise behind Everything Speaks. Our body language makes a difference. I had a mentor, a professor, back when I was in college that made a, um, statement to me. She said, kevin, when you are interested in something, when you're excited about something your team is doing, she says that enthusiasm is contagious. They can tell you're excited and so mad, like, shoulders are going back. M. I'm getting excited. I'm like, man, she's. She is speaking truth into me here about just the power of that energy. And then she reminded me that the converse is also true. She's like, you are not good at this. Is like, whatever you're feeling is here. So when you're disinterested or you're not into it, your whole body language responds in that way. And she says sometimes it's unintentional. Your mind may be somewhere else. But she's like, that can be so deflating and discouraging to a team. So again, we're going back to this. Authenticity, intentionality. It's got to be genuine, but we need to be intentional about that. Let me give you. I sent an email to our team this morning about how we email people. Uh, because this got on my nerves a little bit. I love. I have used AI recently to refine an email to structure it. It's. I can get wordy, so I get verbose. And I'm saying, simplify it, shorten it, get to the point, make it punchier. It's a great tool, but I can tell a lot of times it's very easy for me to get an email and be like, this was not written by a human. And it makes me want to delete it. One of the ways is the space at the top of the email. They haven't reformatted it, so it, like, enters down. So I sent an email this morning saying everything speaks. If we want to say we're authentic, that doesn't mean we're not going to use AI. We are going to use AI to the fullest extent, but we need to make sure that we are communicating in a way. And so the whole principle behind this is if we're going to connect authentically, we've got to understand that connection is more than just what we say. It's our body language. It's the way we write. It's the way this thing is distracting us. Or not when we're with somebody. I heard somebody a couple years ago, my friend Ike Reichard, talk about this principle of stop, look and listen. His strategy for everything to speak is. He says that when, um, if you go back to when they were like school, crossing guards, he says there were three steps for them. You're going to get somebody safely across the road. Stop, look and listen. He usually jokes and says, it's not stop, drop and roll. That's a good way to get out of a fire, but not a good way to get across the street. So he says, stop. Stop is just pause, just stop, look is actually looking in the eye, looking up from your phone and then listening. Just actually trying to do. It's so simple, but it's so profound in the way that allows us to connect.

Speaker C: Yeah, listen, listen, listen, listen. But stop, look and listen.

Speaker A: Yes. Yeah.

Speaker C: Ah, perfect. So in your message to your team, what are your tips with AI? Because everybody's wrestling with this now. I'll tell you, I know what I do, which is reread it and then say, does this me? And take everything out, Because I am verbose as well. So I'm like, okay, let's tighten it up for me.

Speaker A: And there is potential. I want to be real clear on that. So I sent a, uh, I'm. I'm trying to pull it up right now. What I sent to them.

Speaker C: I didn't know if you have any tips.

Speaker A: Well, I gave them three. And this is like, not even our bigger team. It's my smaller team that works on the stuff with my speaking and stuff. And I said, I want to challenge you to do three things with email. And there's an AI piece in here. Number one, speed.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: I want us to respond within a day. Even if the response is, I received this, I'M working on it. I'm not just speed. Second is style. And I said, sound like a human. And this one said, use AI as an assistant, not a replacement. So. Right. Conversationally. I used to love EM M dashes. The little dashes in there. I use those.

Speaker C: Yeah. But now, you know, that's AI.

Speaker A: I know. I use them for their AI now it's like, okay, well, so limit EM M dashes, make edits that sound like you. And then the third was substance. So speed, style and substance. Substance. I said, we've got to respect their time. Put myself in their shoes receiving it. What would make life easier for that person. That was kind of how I challenged them today. You know, when I say challenge them, I was really challenging myself and sending it to the team as accountability.

Speaker C: It's putting what they're looking for as most important. We know that people before tasks, before systems, but then we also know we. What is it that they want? You know, so sometimes it's like connect and then bluff. You've probably heard that bottom line up front.

Speaker B: Uh-huh.

Speaker C: That's also a good one.

Speaker A: I love that as a receiver because I have a short attention span.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: I appreciate when somebody is going to give me a long context and they say, all right, here's the bottom line up front, and then here's all the details that helps me. And then I'm actually more likely to read all the details.

Speaker C: I actually was talking to our vendor that you and I mutually know, and I said, okay, when you record something for us and I can't attend, don't just send me the video. Send me a summary.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker C: What we covered, because that's the world we live in right now. Don't send me a video because I didn't attend your meeting because I couldn't, you know, and so I'm probably not going to sit and watch your video, and no one else is either. So I was trying to, like, help them kind of buy into the fact that everybody's moving fast today. Even people who like to go at a steadier pace are moving faster.

Speaker A: So.

Speaker C: Yeah, that's really, really good. Really good. I like that you did that message today.

Speaker A: Yeah, we'll see how that goes.

Speaker C: Yeah, well, it's good. It's good reminder for everybody to stay on the same page and how you communicate. It's so important. And we all need reminders because we're all under pressure and busy, so. Hartman is, uh, one of the creators of the science of axiology and the trimetrics, assessment and Here's a quote that he talked about, and I want to get your take on it because it goes into our next section that we're going to cover. But he wrote that each individual person as infinite as the whole space, time, universe itself. So we're infinite. In other words, infinite potential. There's infinite to us, to who we are, our past, our present, our future. And I like it because it helps us remember that a person is so much more than their role. That role is within who we are and our performance and our numbers. So that takes us to the next question, which is where we have to as a business focus on efficiency and execution and results. So it's a challenge because how do we keep people from becoming secondary to here's your role and here's the rule or the process or the system without lowering standards. It's hard sometimes for people to make that balance or to avoid hard decisions. Sometimes the most humane thing you can do is have a real conversation with people. But people get that mixed up with. Am m I being judgy? Am I actually putting people first Talk about all of that?

Speaker A: Oh, there's a lot. Let me start. So one, I want to respond to that quote. I think that I'd not heard that. I think it's so powerful. One of our core values in our business is people. And we use this tagline afterwards. Every number has a name, every name has a story. And every story matters because we're trying to remind us that, especially as we scale, that, yes, we got to hit all these metrics, but each one of these fields in salesforce is actually a person that has value. So I think that quote is awesome. I'm, um, going to talk about what this tension of what I would describe in response to you as results and relationships. And I fell for many years at one end of the spectrum. So started ATTO in 2011, 2018, 2019 and 2020. My business partner kind of stepped away. And so I led the business day to day in those years. Two of those three, we were number one on the best place to work list in Atlanta. Now this sounds great. The co founder of the business, I'm running the business, we're best place to work. Everything feels pretty good. And then somebody recommended we do a 360 assessment. And for people who haven't done that, it's just you're getting evaluated by everybody around you. And here's what I learned, Susie. I learned that the lowest performers in our business, they loved me. They thought I was amazing. They knew that I believed the best in them. I wanted the best for them. We are clear about our purpose and our culture, all those kind of things. And then something in that 360, though, really shocked me. I learned that my highest performers were frustrated with me. Some of these who are like my closest friends, and they had not said this to me out loud, or if they did, I wasn't listening. But they wrote in there essentially this, We're a great place to work because we're a great place not to have to work sometimes that because I would rather be liked than be effective. I had an unwillingness to hold our low performers accountable. So in the disc thing, my eye was going really high and I'm pretty naturally high D. But that was going down pretty low there because I was orienting to just that side of it. And here's what I thought was kindness toward those people was actually doing a disservice to other people on our team. I had made their job more difficult because they're picking up the slack. Our results for clients was not as consistent as it needed to be. And so what you said, sometimes the kindest thing you can do is have a tough conversation. I think we've got to hold intention in a business. Results and relationships. And I would say that everybody listening to this podcast is oriented toward one or the other more. And so we've got to acknowledge where we sit and work to make up for it. So in my camp, I've got to go to my team and say, hey, guys, you guys know I care about you and you know, I'm not great at the tough conversations, but we've got to be willing to have one now because as much we like each other, we can't do business together. For those that are more relationship oriented, they've got to be able to go to people and say, you know, hey, I know I didn't ask you how your weekend was. You know, I'm oriented to results, but I need to be. I'm trying to be better at relationships. I just think they both matter. I would say this to the person listening that is a hard, charging, results oriented, numbers focused person. I get it. We need those in our business. The guy we've hired to run our business is that his name's Bart. He's amazing. But we always remind each other internally. Albert Einstein, who is a mathematician, it's important. Mathematician said, not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts. And so it is good to just remind ourselves that there are some intangibles.

Speaker C: Yes. And Talk a little bit about this is kind of an add on to that. How you would hold someone accountable. They made a mistake. How you would hold them accountable without reducing them to the mistake they made. And you even could give an example, maybe someone like, it's almost like how your teacher treated you, you know, like you weren't really following up. But.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: How would you do that in business?

Speaker A: Well, I think there are a few ways. I will tell you. There's some of these questions that you're asking Susie that I'm like, oh, I feel great at. Uh, I'll just admit, transparently, like, this is if my team. Because if anybody on my team listens to this podcast, I want them to not think that I am being inauthentic. It's not an area I'm always great with. I think two challenges I would say is I like the way that Adam Grant and think again. He talked about the difference in task conflict and relational conflict. Relational conflict is, you and I have an issue. Task conflict is about this issue. I have liked using that terminology because if you and I have a problem, I can say, hey, this isn't about me and you. It's about this. It's about this mistake. So this is not personal. It's about this. That's one. And the second thing I would say is the willingness to handle it directly. I've seen far too many leaders that created some new rule for the entire company because they didn't want to address one thing directly.

Speaker C: Yep.

Speaker A: So now why the policy manual is so long is because we've created rules for all these mistakes people have made instead of just having a conversation about it.

Speaker C: Yep. And, you know, I would say you saying, well, um, this isn't my greatest strength. You and about 90% of all leaders would probably say that, Uh, I think everybody kind of struggles with it. Here's a little model that we use. Wpsa. So how to actually have a conversation, Just throw it out there. Warm open. Even if it's a tough, really tough conversation. Warm open is, you know, we work together for a long time, and I appreciate how well you, you know, whatever, whatever. Something warm that's authentic. And then the very next thing is, this is the hardest part. And if you coach anybody through it, it takes them a while to get to what the problem is because it's stacked up. Because it's been a really long time before they've addressed the things that they need to. But you do the problem statement. Here's something I want to talk to about. And you Pick one thing, not 800, uh, what's the one thing that's going to be the biggest leverage? Because you know, and usually we have to brainstorm because it's like this and this and this and this. And then you say, have a really good problem statement and then you say, tell me what you think about that. You get them involved and then you start to have a conversation and they'll say, well, you know, I didn't do that, or whatever. You can have a conversation and then it's like, okay, so let's come up with solutions. What do you think we ought to do? And you put them on the hot seat. It works every time. But it's amazing how people are so hesitant to use it.

Speaker A: It works. And that solution thing, when you ask them that, some people are hesitant to do that because they're like, well, I've already got the solution. But people, they will help implement what they help create.

Speaker B: Before we continue, I want to share a resource that connects directly to what Kevin and I are discussing and that is the Talent Insights assessment.

Speaker C: One of the many things that I

Speaker B: love about this assessment is that it gives people language for what they already sense about themselves and about other people, but they don't know how to explain it or to express it. Talent Insights combines disc, which looks at how you naturally communicate and respond. And in the car analogy that we always use, it's how you like to drive around, it's your preferred behaviors, it's very visible. Sometimes people over apply it because they can see it, but it is not the whole of people, but it does tell us some keen insight about how they like to communicate and interact. DISC is one thing that's measured in talent insights and the second thing is motivators which help explain what drives you and energizes you. And in the car analogy we call that what puts gas in your tank. It's what you're most interested in, it's how you want to spend your time, it's your motivators, it's your drivers. And you can use this Talent Insights assessment for your own development. You can use it with a new hire in onboarding. You can use it with someone you work closely with across an entire team, with family members. We can also create this side by side collaboration report and team reports which helps people see each other's results so that everybody can understand their similarities, their differences, their strengths and understand where misunderstandings may occur because we do have those differences and so those misunderstandings can turn into full blown conflict and we see it all the time in the U.S. employees spend about three hours every week

Speaker C: stuck in workplace conflict.

Speaker B: So that's three weeks of work time every year for every person. Right. That's a lot of time dealing with misunderstandings, personality differences, frustration, communication breakdown instead of getting work done. So what if people understood themselves and each other better? That's what the Talent Insights assessment does. And this is not about labeling people. It is about creating better understanding, stronger communication, and more productive working relationships. Understanding disc and motivators gives you a model to understand yourself, understand others, and understand the differences and begin to appreciate the differences. So to see a sample Talent Insights assessment and learn m more about a team workshop, go to pricelessprofessional.com TalentInsightSWorkshop PricelessProfessional.com TalentInsightSworkshop we're back with Kevin Paul Scott talking about the small but meaningful ways leaders create experiences people want to return to.

Speaker C: So let's talk about a story or a leader or an organization that changed the experiences that people were having. And it wasn't a huge program necessarily. Maybe they didn't bring an incentive company in or anything like that, but it was totally related to. We've decided to pay closer attention to people.

Speaker A: Oh, I'm going to use one that I think is it's one that I've probably been so fascinated by by the last year. And it was that underpinning of that conference we created called Make Guests Feel Something that we talked about. So Brian Chesky is the CEO of Airbnb, and he was watching a documentary on the creation of Snow White and how they had storyboarded the entire thing. You know, this is back before all the technology we have. So they walked through it and he had this idea to storyboard what the customer experience journey for both Airbnb hosts and visitors, our guests. And they brought in a guy named Nick Sung, S N G, who is a former Pixar artist. And they created Just think about the painstaking details of, like, when a host goes to put something on Airbnb, they're probably like, what is every step of that journey for a host? And what is every. And they did the host on one line and the customer on the other. And they documented how they could make that better. And this is just what I found. They realized that all of the traditional business analysis they had done had completely missed the thing that mattered most in those interactions. And so what they found is that most companies that try to make things better focus on eliminating friction. They don't always just Design for Delight. And so through the storyboarding process, they found ways to. This is kind of a nerdy way to say it. I want to say it like, most companies focus on reducing negative variance. How do I solve the problems? They focus on increasing positive variance. How do we take the good parts and make them even better? And it's been transformational. Their company, they're not a client. We don't earn a part of it. So I'm just giving you somebody else. But if you Google, like, um, Brian Chesky, Project Snow White or Airbnb, Project Snow White, it's a fascinating case study of how they did that.

Speaker C: And what I love about that is in some ways, you're doing that when you're thinking about sending that email to your team, you're storyboarding. Who's everybody on my team and how are they going to receive this message? Or when you prepare for a talk, when you came to the organization that I first heard you and where you go, you're storyboarding, or I think about something I just did with my favorite client, who I just love so much. So much. I love the people so much. And so I just fret and fret and fret over everything I do because I just care about them. Um, and we work together. You know, I, uh, storyboard kind of in my mind as to what are they going to ask, what do they need from me, and that's putting them first.

Speaker A: I love that. That's so good. It's a great practice to do.

Speaker C: I, uh, love that. Okay, so that is a really great takeaway. So paying attention to people, other thoughts you have around paying attention to people, anything about that leaders struggle with or that you see?

Speaker A: I would say internally, uh, you know, a culture, I find, and I don't know if this is just me, but I find that I'm pretty good at naturally doing that for customers because they're paying the bills. I'm pretty good at paying attention to them and getting less frustrated. But sometimes internally, especially the little things that are important. So I would encourage people to do that internally. I believe firmly that cared for people, care for people, you got to start there. We have started to do something inside of our business where we've got five core values. And we have a tendency to only reward and recognize when people hit, uh, financial metrics or operational metrics. But we now do awards every year based on our five values. We have people nominate those, and I think it's a way for us to celebrate the things that maybe get overlooked, but they're the Things that really help create a culture of care inside of a business.

Speaker C: Yes. Oh, uh, that's great. That's an organizational way. Anything else you could think of about? Just the one on, uh, one, you know, the story of the storyboard and what you're doing with the values and just the way you think about your team. You can tell you care about your team. You're saying that, oh, I maybe don't do that as well, but I am thinking you really do because you're being modest and you have a high bar for yourself. What are some things that people can do where people do feel valued and they're not being processed or they're not only valued for their. What are some things that you see or people have done for you that made you feel that way?

Speaker A: I would tell you a couple things there. One, I think when people take an interest in you beyond just the value you create at work. So understanding them, figuring out, uh, what are they passionate about, what are their hopes and dreams. I am recording this interview after Come back. We have five new team members who have started in the last month here. And I just had lunch with this group of five people and I asked each of them, tell me about your last job. Tell me about your favorite part of that job and your least favorite part. And part of that is I'm learning their story, but I also am, um, learning when they say something about the reason they left that last company that was prestigious and a great company and they were well commented. Why did they leave that to come here? That is telling for me and it allows me to, hopefully, if I'm intentional about it, to care for them in a different way. So figuring out what makes them tick.

Speaker C: Ah.

Speaker A: What do they really care about, and then following up and remembering enough to ask about that.

Speaker C: Yeah, that can be tricky when people are really busy.

Speaker A: I would say this when people are really busy. So here's the conversation. You and I are here and it's like somebody's listening to this now and they're like, great idea. Do you know what's on my to do list today? I got a lot of things going on.

Speaker C: I know, I know.

Speaker A: So to drill down to what you said, I would give you some real practical things. One, I have this problem of being add, so I am people oriented, but I may remember a bunch of things about you, but then I forgot your name. So I am trying to. One tactic is saying their name in conversation multiple times. Yeah. Hey, Susie. It's great to see you, Susie. Remind me this, like, it just that Repetition is important. Asking curious questions. Not just saying yes or no or, hey, your story reminds me about this story about me that I actually want to tell you.

Speaker C: That's a real one that people need to get away from if you. Yeah, they do.

Speaker A: Oh, yeah, yeah. Let me tell you. And they're trying to relate, so asking even just this question. Okay, tell me more about that. Tell me a little more about that and go in a level deeper. And then I think a thing that I'm just trying to get better at is a personal check before meeting. So, like, that lunch that I was running into, I was going, like a few minutes late for, but I still spent like 30 seconds before I went in just to say, all right, what do I hope to get out of this? What do I hope to share with them? Um, how do I want to show up? And I'm not telling you, I'm always good at it, but when I do that. Yeah, that makes a huge difference.

Speaker C: Yeah, that's part of that intentional that you're talking about, too. You know, so often we get ourselves so scheduled, we're flying in by the seat of our pants, and it does happen, but we have more control over that than we think we do. And like you, you took 30 seconds and it was enough. You'd already thought about the meeting before you ever arrived anyway. You didn't just think about it just then. You probably looked at your calendar at the start of the week, knew that was coming, already had some thoughts.

Speaker A: So, yes, that's so true.

Speaker C: It made me think of something. You're prompting all kinds of thoughts for me. Twenty years ago, I wrote an article for a famous author that was coming to speak with a organization that I was volunteering for. And I wrote the article. I was very proud of the article. And it got published in something. And the author is there, everybody's surrounded. You know, before he speaks, he's out in the meeting place, and somebody brings me up to him and says, this is Susie. She wrote your article that you commented on. And he didn't have much time, but I remember I'm talking about it right now. He spent about 20 seconds, looked right at me and said, that was a really good article. I really appreciate you doing that.

Speaker A: Wow.

Speaker C: And of course, you know, I was trying to be a good writer. And, you know, it was like, what, uh, you know, was all he to do. He didn't have to do much. It was authentic. It was intentional. And I remember it 20 years later.

Speaker A: It's incredible. That, to me, is a good reminder of the power of our words and our interactions.

Speaker C: And it's that thing we were talking about earlier. Two things. Intentional and being present.

Speaker A: Yes. It's gotta be both.

Speaker C: So we're talking one on, ah, one a bit. We're talking about big organization, but creating the culture of care. Oftentimes we have charismatic leaders that are running the organization and people really look up to them. And that's kind of where the heartbeat is. I just did a, uh, podcast interview with somebody who worked for Ted Turner, and he said everybody felt like they worked for Ted, you know, well, Ted told me this. You know, I work for Ted. And so I'm sure they had to when he retired, you know, create a different culture around that. But what kind of habits, expectations? What are you seeing as you're helping leaders do this better?

Speaker A: I naturally resist systems. We need systems. What's celebrated is repeated. And so if your culture is contingent on one person who's the force of personality, you're not building something that's sustainable long term. So I just encourage people. We talked about the values awards we do as a business. Finding ways to put in a system. That celebration and seeing people, it's a part of the workings of the organization.

Speaker C: Maybe there's reminders built in, kind of like what you do with the email today. If you have your executive team, there's probably reminders. But are there things people could do in meetings that demonstrate people first?

Speaker A: So Mondays normally don't have this much reference material. This just happened to be a Monday that I had a new team member lunch. I sent that email and then we do. What's a quarter? A state of the company meeting. So our whole team was gathered here this morning, and as part of that, we are sharing financial metrics, we're sharing our goals. We implement a system called EOS here, entrepreneurial operating system. So we're sharing our rocks and our goals. But as part of that, we make sure that every time we are sharing wins of the past quarter. And they cannot just be metrics, they've got to be stories of client successes and stories of wins for our team. Even little things like we'll start meetings with what's your personal and professional best over the last 30 days? Because so many times we're reduced to just who we are at work. And I think we want to make sure we know people beyond that.

Speaker C: Yeah, that's great. So we talked, you mentioned it earlier about leader moving fast, and I'm going to circle back around to it for just a minute and then we'll go on to our next section, but top practical things that people can begin doing tomorrow to make people feel something and create an experience that people want to return to. Which is our title and subtitle of this.

Speaker A: I had two parts of it. One, you may have heard me share the story. I have a friend who's a police officer in inner city Atlanta in a challenging area. The area around Mercedes Benz Stadium. It's for those not familiar there. It's high crime, high poverty. They've done a lot, but it's still challenging. And I made a statement to him one time that I ended up regretting. I said, man, I bet you deal with some rough folks. And I'll never forget what he said. He said, kevin, most of the time, I deal with good people on their worst days. He understood a principle that, uh, Zig Ziglar used to say that the way we see people is the way we treat them. And so the first thing I challenge people to do is to change the way you see them. How we view things changes how we do things. We've got to start with seeing them not just as a cog in a machine, but of somebody. As the quote you said earlier, of infinite value. So that's one. It starts with how you see them, and then if you see them, you'll find those ways to treat them differently. It's different for different ones of us. Some of it is we need to stop, look and listen. Some of it is we need to remember their name. Some of it is you've got to figure out maybe what your greatest gap is. You find yourself glossing over and say, I want to see this person in a way that they're valuable. And then every time I interact with them, I want to do this one thing. It may not be all the things, but if you can just find some of those intentional things, you can do it make a huge difference.

Speaker C: It's kind of like how that author did 20 seconds. Tune in for 20 seconds to this little girl who's saying, I wrote an article.

Speaker A: Yeah, that's so true.

Speaker C: That's great. Okay. I love that everything you shared has been wonderful and interesting, and we're going to wrap it up and go towards talking about, um, moving from the lens of how other people feel to lens towards you and help them understand some of your natural strengths, because they've probably already experienced them during the conversation. So I have your assessment pulled up and you revisited it. It's the trimetrics talent insights version. And, uh, what stands out as most true about you around how you naturally show up.

Speaker A: Oh, wow. This is. I feel like this is gonna be a little bit of therapy we're gonna do here. I think a couple things that are interesting. Can I go disc first? Let's go. Behaviors.

Speaker C: Yeah, you can go wherever you want.

Speaker A: So I am like, if, you know, like, I hope you don't show the chart on the screen because on my natural, I at a 100 and a D at a 94. So very high. My S is a 22. My blue is a 5. My C is a 5.

Speaker C: There are no bad scores in this.

Speaker A: I know, I know there's no bad scores.

Speaker C: But my money has different strengths.

Speaker A: And, you know, these outsized strengths can become something that was really helpful to me in a training a few years ago. I always focused on the ones above the line of my strengths. But I remember somebody helping me understand that really looking at things that are furthest away from the midline is important, depending on if you're looking vertically or horizontally. So, yes, my D at 94 is important, but the 5 at a C is also pretty telling too, about what I'm going to be interested and what I'm going to do. So here's the thing that I found interesting in, uh, my adapted style, my, uh, dominance drops what would still be considered high for a lot of people to 76, but almost 20 points.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: And so in our environment, I am kind of the inspirational leader and there is somebody who is more of the tactical leader of that. So I get to lean into that high I, which I love doing. Here's what I'm aware of. That everything is fine and good until times get really stressful. And then that adapted dominance reverts back in a hurry. And people can experience that very abruptly because they're not accustomed. They don't see that I hide that dominant side a lot. And when it comes out when I'm frustrated, it's a shock. So that's the one I'm thinking of as I'm looking at. I haven't looked at this report in like a year.

Speaker C: So I agree with everything you said about our strengths can be overused, but people don't remember what their strengths are sometimes. And so your strength, according, uh, to the disc style, is personable, warm, direct will be have the direct conversations. Moves at a fast pace. Below the energy line is what we call it, not low is that you're just moving a fast pace. And then the C, uh, being below the energy line is like, I don't really want to manage spreadsheets. I'm going to work independently and I'm going to be the ideal person and say, let's go, let's go, let's go. Somebody else can kind of keep everybody systemically straightened out.

Speaker A: Yes, for sure.

Speaker C: But you also, you know, your motivators, according to the assessment, is the individualistic political, which is the visionary pointing the way to what can be. And so that's, you know, you on stage. And then the traditional regulatory is doing the right thing, helping people follow and of course, the rules bringing structure in a way of what's right and what's true.

Speaker B: And it's beautiful.

Speaker C: I can totally see that in everything

Speaker A: that you are and do something that is fascinating. Just real quick for me, I started this business 15 years ago with a guy that has almost the exact same DISC assessment as me. Like, scary similar. The guy who did our first assessment, talent Insights, he looked at both of us and he said, you guys need somebody with a, uh, stronger C in your organization or you guys are going to be doing prison ministry from the inside. Behaviorally, we were so similar, but I found we were so different philosophically about things. For about five years, we had only done disc, and then we did the motivators, the values, the driving forces piece. And I began to see, oh, that's why he cares about this piece that I don't care anything about. And while I get so frustrated on this and he could care less. So I think the full color of those two pictures is so helpful.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: So to me, it's like, of course he does. When I looked at your assessment, of course he's doing this. This is his ministry. So you're going to lead people, you're going to help them understand a vision of life that can make it better. And you love to serve people. That altruistic is high too.

Speaker A: Yes. Yeah.

Speaker C: So. And you don't really necessarily want to stop and smell the roses. You enjoy working.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: Being, uh, on this ministry.

Speaker A: There's a girl on our team, Elizabeth, who's worked with me for, um, 12, 10 or 12 years now. She's amazing. One of the things I found is we are about opposite on our behavioral style, but she's one of the people I respect more than anybody else. And I find that our driving force, our motivators, are so similar. And so there's a foundation of trust there. And then the way that we bring those to life behaviorally is very different in our strengths.

Speaker C: Yeah, there we go. So well said. And, you know, these days we start with the motivator.

Speaker A: I love that I Wish people would have started with that back in the day.

Speaker C: It's your why, you know, and there's no wrong answer there either. It's like, those are nature, nurture. They were formed in us when we came in, and we were also shaped by our environment. And so when you ask people their history, and the funny thing is, is you ask who Most influenced you? 99%. That's a good icebreaker to do with your team next time, who most influenced you? And 99% of the time, it will show up in their motivators or their driving forces.

Speaker B: Okay, 99%.

Speaker C: So who most influenced you? Somebody probably who had rules and structure. I mean, was there somebody in your life that was in the ministry or military or very structured and also somebody who is very much a spokesperson?

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I would say my dad was a firefighter. And so you just get that.

Speaker C: Oh, yeah, there we.

Speaker A: Can you get all of that in there?

Speaker C: So, yeah, I see that with assessments. We work with a bunch of cities and we see the altruistic. Yeah, so you get that.

Speaker B: Honest. That's so beautiful.

Speaker C: I love it. And so how do you think that your strengths in your style and your motivators have helped you with your business? That you were the visionary for the business? That's the first start. What else?

Speaker A: I think optimism. I mean, I think to be an entrepreneur, you've got to kind of have this ability to see what's possible and get it excited about it. And like we've talked about, sometimes a strength overplayed can become a weakness. I've needed to learn sometime that you've got to pair enthusiasm with some discipline and intentionality. So I see that. I think me understanding. We all like to read these assessments because we want to learn more about ourselves. That's my favorite thing to read about, is me. But I think it also has helped me appreciate the strengths of other people who I have found I need them, um, to accomplish it. If God's put something on my heart that I feel like I need to accomplish, and he's uniquely gifted me, I also need people that he's uniquely gifted in areas he has not gifted me and being able to learn to appreciate them.

Speaker C: So well said. It's so well said. Yeah. We learn it about ourselves, and then we can start looking out like, oh, wait a minute. We help each other. We might, you know, with understanding and with this framework, you can actually begin to appreciate the differences. And like, okay, we are our greatest helpers. The people that are on the opposite side.

Speaker A: Yeah, I like that.

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. And it's a couple of the things that it said on your strengths page. Willing to talk to naysayers about conforming to the system or structure. Is that true for you?

Speaker A: That I am willing to do that?

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Yeah, I think so. It's interesting to see this over time. I think the assessment I sent you, which is probably the third or fourth one I took, but it was from 2018, and I feel like there are seasons where I'm better at that than others.

Speaker C: Yeah, okay. But you have such a vision and you're so inspirational. You'll go into the den and, you know, share the vision, even if you don't know whether they're bought in or not.

Speaker A: I think I take joy in trying to win them over.

Speaker C: Yeah, that's what I was thinking. That's what I was thinking. It's like, oh, yeah, he finds a way. Yes, he does. I love that. So do you think that your strengths are, uh, what led you to this business and everything you did before? Can you see all tie ins?

Speaker A: Oh, there's no doubt. Yeah. You can just see how you're uniquely wired. And I can also see that when I am in certain roles, even within my business that accentuate and amplify my strengths, I am a lot happier. You know, I told you about that time where we are best place to work best, but we hadn't held people accountable. Well, that was true. But one of the reasons that I didn't love that season is that that s. And specifically that c. I was having to deal with accountants and taxes and lawyers and HR people that had a lot more of those compliance oriented questions. And I'm like, can we just dream about where we're going? Why do we have to do all this stuff so well, it had to

Speaker C: do with your style, but even more by your motiv. It's because you were built. That teacher saw you and saw all the charisma that you have and all the bright light that just show was beaming out of you. There is no doubt in my mind that that's what that was and that you were righteous. I can see that. So, you know, when you're talking to the account, it's not that they're not righteous, but they're not talking about being a visionary. They don't want visions and new ideas. They want like I got, which is also very important. But yeah, yeah. One of the things it says on the ideal environment. Environment to express ideas, to influence people.

Speaker A: Oh, that's exactly. That's when I feel most excited. The accountants don't aren't excited about being influenced as much.

Speaker C: Their job is to not be influenced.

Speaker A: That's right, yeah.

Speaker C: Oh, that's so fun. All right, so great discussion there and so fun. Thank you for being so sharing of your, of who you are and uh, what your assessment said and your insights. But you're a visionary. You're meant to do this and so much more.

Speaker A: Well, thank you for that. That's very encouraging.

Speaker C: If you could put a billboard anywhere you want to influence leaders or influence other people, be who you are, what would you say and where would you put it?

Speaker A: I wish I had a great strong answer to this question. I think the thing that I'm hyper aware of now, I've got a son who's got a birthday tomorrow, he turns 8. And you know, I'm not a very money driven person, but I do feel like when you got kids and you're married, you're trying to figure out how you do that. And um, I remember somebody when I was younger was telling me, you'll run out of time before you run out of money. And I'm like, that's easy for you to say. I'm broke right now. But I think that's what I would want people, I just remind people of how short that time is and that we use it well. This is not political at all, but I've just been seeing, uh, lately there's a lot of stuff in the news about Ben Sasse, who is a former senator from Nebraska, president, University of Florida, who's got stage four pancreatic cancer. And it's three kids. And just listening to him talk about the amount of time we have and even his regrets of what he would have done differently. I need a better statement. But the reminder of that time is our most valuable resource. The Bible says this. It tells us to teach us to number our days that we may gain a heart of wisdom. And so I think that's what I'm focused on right now.

Speaker C: I love that. No regrets. Yeah, no regrets. What are the ages of your children? You have three, I got three and

Speaker A: another one on the way. I don't know if we've.

Speaker C: Oh, no, that's amazing.

Speaker A: I've got one that turns eight tomorrow. A boy, a daughter who's five, a boy who's three, and we have a little girl coming in October, so. Oh my goodness, we're going to be busy.

Speaker C: Yes, you are. You already are busy. That's.

Speaker A: This is true. This is true.

Speaker C: Well, I'm glad there's people like you having A big family like that, that's wonderful.

Speaker A: Well, thank you.

Speaker C: No regrets. And happy birthday to your son.

Speaker A: Thank you. Thank you.

Speaker C: Eight years old is a big deal.

Speaker A: That is true.

Speaker C: Okay, so wrap it up. When people finish this conversation, what is one idea that you hope they'll carry with them as they're leading others? You know how they are going to treat people?

Speaker A: I think it kind of summarizes what we just talked about and what we talked about at the very beginning is that I think the real riches in or relationships. Look, I love the idea of helping people connect authentically people. And here's what I believe. When you do it, you'll have more employee loyalty. So your business is going to run better. You're going to have more customer engagement. So if you do this the right way, if you make people feel something, there is going to be more business results than you could ever imagine. All the things that you're chasing after are probably going to be there. And what I find is that you'll experience more success and that success that you are chasing will end up becoming less important even though you're achieving it because you realize that the ability, the opportunity to connect with people really is what it's all about. So this is not some fluffy thing like you'll sell more stuff and you'll have more success. All that'll come and it'll just become less important. You may even succeed financially, but the greatest riches will be the relationships you build along the way. Spoken like a true I. Right? Hi. I.

Speaker C: Well, and spoken like Hartman, who was probably not a I.

Speaker A: That's true.

Speaker C: You know, there's so many other things that are so much bigger than our style. But your style is. You're good at sharing it, but it is infinite. The love that's a form of love, the love you feel with people does not change. That author gave me love in 20 seconds.

Speaker A: Wow. Yeah, it's very. So true.

Speaker C: It's so true. So it's infinite. That's infinite. Meaning it stays with you. It's rich and deep. I love what you share. Reminding people that if you do this, you will get the business that you want, but you'll feel richer than just the dollar signs. That's awesome.

Speaker A: I love it.

Speaker C: So where can people learn more about you? We'll put links to everything in the show notes. But what would be your favorite things to share with people to find you?

Speaker A: KevinPaul Scott.com is my website. It's just my name. Everywhere you find me, it's three names and people are always Asking me, do you have a double name? Do you call me Kevin Paul? No, it's just Kevin Scott was too common. So two first names weren't enough and he did three. So Kevin Paul Scott. I mean, I, I do a Tuesday. Uh, you've referenced this. Every Tuesday morning at 7am Eastern, I send out a weekly post. Not selling anybody anything or any of that. It's just, um, people used to criticize Zig Ziglar back in the day about motivation. They would say, motivation doesn't last. And Zig would say, well, neither does bathing. That's why we recommend it daily. And so for me, this isn't daily, it's weekly. But it's just supposed to be like a shot of inspiration espresso that hopefully will help, uh, apply to life or work. So that's the best way to say and touch me. I'm writing a new book on this topic that'll come out May of 2027 and we're going to talk about the intersection of authenticity and intentionality, how you apply it personally and professionally. So I don't even have a title yet. We'll wait till the publisher. We go back and forth on that, but would love for people to follow along on that journey.

Speaker C: All right. You have to connect with Kevin. He's amazing and his work is amazing. So thank you for taking time with us today.

Speaker A: Thank you for having me and thank you for what you do and just being an encouragement and, uh, so great at what you do. So thanks, Susie. This has been a gift.

Speaker C: All right, thank you. Take care.

Speaker A: See you.

Speaker C: Bye.

Speaker A: Bye.

Speaker C: Okay.

Speaker B: I want to thank Kevin for this conversation and for the reminder that the real riches in life are found in relationships. And isn't that so true? I was thinking that today as I was doing my normal things I appreciate list and thinking about how many relationships

Speaker C: I've built over the years and how

Speaker B: fortunate I have been to have friends and new connections and long term connections. Um, Robert S. Hartman, the father of axiology, the science that we use in our acumen assessment, taught this. He said, people hold the highest level of value. People matter more than things, tasks, systems or ideas. So people are greater than those things, the value of them. And yet at work, it can be surprisingly easy to lose sight of the person sitting across from us. Because we've got things to do, we're under pressure, we love ideas, we love creating systems. And uh, all of that matters, all of it matters. But if people matter more, then we need to prioritize that and make sure we keep all in Play, but prioritize the people side of what we're doing as well. Well, so that might be one reason, because at work, we get caught up in the we got to get this

Speaker C: done and we got to get this

Speaker B: idea, and it's more important than you as a human. That might be why we spend nearly three hours every week with workplace conflict. What would change if we got better at understanding ourselves and understanding the people around us? Um, so one of my favorite ideas from our discussion today is that the way we see people shapes the way we treat them. So if we don't prioritize them or if we assume that people are less than or these people are smarter than other people and judgment comes in, we don't mean to do it, but it's a very human thing to do. But when we see someone only as a role or a number or a problem or a task, our behavior will follow. So it doesn't mean we don't address the problem, but we're addressing it to a human, not a person with a problem. That kind of changes how we have the conversation. We can still be straightforward and direct, but there are ways to have conversations that are not demeaning to people, but are still direct. So. But when we remember that every person has a name, a story, and infinite value, that's what Hartman taught. Infinite value. People are infinite in their value. We begin to lead differently. And I think that's the true essence of Hartman's work. And we can see how we score in axiology. Do we put the people dimension higher than the doing and the thinking? So Kevin also gave us a wonderfully practical challenge step, which is to stop, look, and listen. That would cause you to pause and remember, okay, people are important. I'm going to tune into this person in front of me. We're going to pause long enough to be present. We're going to look up and truly see the person there in front of us. And then we're going to do everything we can to listen with curiosity instead of simply waiting for your opportunity to speak. Sage advice from Kevin Paul Scott. The show notes for today's episode are@prelessprofessional.com Kevin Paul Scott. We always have favorite quotes there. We have his contact information. We have practical action steps. So you can also subscribe to his Tuesday insights and follow the progress of his upcoming book@KevinPaulScott.com you know, I'm a big fan of its newsletter. I stop and read that newsletter every time it comes in because it's personable and it's actionable, so we'll include all of that in the show notes. Again, it's@prelessprofessional.com KevinPaul Scott and that's Scott with two T's. Thank you for spending time with us. If this episode encouraged you, please share it with a leader, colleague, or friend who would appreciate it. And be sure to subscribe to the Wake a Beaker podcast so you don't miss future conversations. Until next time, Remember how you see people, influences how you treat them, and how you make them feel will probably stay with them much longer than you realize. Let's wake up eager. Let's see the person, not just the role, and help people feel something worth remembering. I know you can do that. I'm, um, focused on it too. Take care. We'll see you on the next episode.