Lily Wecker - Aethos | Human-to-Human Hospitality, Building for Connection & Owner's Mindset

Hi, I'm Lily Wecker. I am CEO of Ethos and this is my SMAC hospitality episode. Welcome to the SMAC Hospitality podcast! In this episode i sit down with Lilly Wecker, CEO of ethos.

we recorded this conversation at IGF BMA in Berlin And it's one that stays with you...we talk about what means build a brand. people genuinely want to belong Why community and human connection are at the heart of everything E-Flusters, And what it takes to hold onto that as a company scales. I'm Florian Montag and enjoy this show!

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Lily, It's so great to have you on the podcast and welcome for an audience which maybe don't know yet your CEO of ethos. Could you just share a bit more about yourself in a couple sentences? And also about ethos and the brand. Yeah Of course.

Thank You For Having Me Here Florian. Ethos is pan-European experiential lifestyle hospitality company. I joined the company having worked in management consulting, and private equity ,and a luxury owner operator group. And Ethos is really special for its mission.

it has a mission to bring more purposeful and soulful connections And I myself had some health challenges in the past few years that forced me to connect more with mind-body, practice mindfulness exercises and do more introspection. That journey has really brought me to this point where I genuinely see myself serving the mission of ethos, bringing more genuine connection this experiential lifestyle to a wider audience. That's so fascinating and so much to unpack in our conversation.

You do not have typical hospitality background as you mentioned. it came from management consulting. get into hospitality, what attracted you from hospitality? Yeah I've always been a people person.

I fell in love with real estate at business school. so i was originally consulting for realistic clients out of London but pan-European and when I discovered hospitality it was actually during Covid. So COVID is the time where people started really looking for new experiences, mindfulness practice well-being. Having more attention to well being and lifestyle.

it's that during that period I discovered hospitality having a best mix of both human aspects in what i love about built environment. You know, we're working in this wonderfully operationally complex place with full of people. But having the opportunity to create something special both integrated into nature but was something that is man-made and I think it's just wonderful. And ethos quite a young brand up and coming as you said already very much touching themes which may be more younger generation.

also our talk to what, how old is the brand? How did that come together? where does a brand come from. Yeah The brand has roughly seven years old right it's...

the fundamental philosophy of ethos Is very much around like I said earlier creating That genuine meaningful set Of connections with yourself, with your loved ones. With their community and ultimately also it's nature was the environment that you're in. where this comes from is really fundamentally around I believe addressing modern loneliness right? In current generation we all know this Gen Z in general they are socializing less dating less are drinking less, right?

And I believe what we have observed is this hunger for connections. Ethos has not built only for Gen Z but yes today over half of our guests are under forty years old and i believe it's more that we provide a sense of belonging in the sense community that gen z folks seek. When you think about traditional hotels, especially more in the luxury segment that you would think of. Especially Europe I don't know.

great food, great wines and lavish lifestyle. how's that interpreted differently at ethos? And bringing people together not. is it also through F&B or as a proof?

How do bring people to get around on that side? yeah absolutely Traditional luxury and there's absolutely a space for traditional luxury operators, right? Traditional luxury tends to focus on the products. They try to build social status like it is...

The idea behind vavelan goods that when you increase the price demand also goes up. Why? It because own something and it implies a certain hierarchical status that you are better than the next person, or you own more of X then an ex-person. We believe very narrow view of luxury.

when ESOS talks about Luxury we see Time being present at the present moment and connection in the depth of a connection. When you're able to foster real genuine meaningful connections with each other The the chandelier, the the brick-and-mortar. A big bathtub Marbles that part kind of it's. it's a lot less important, because you have the soul.

You had to soulful connection and then kind of goes back to what I mentioned earlier about modern loneliness. It is also that we see as being quite rare And very much appreciated Very practical. How do you create at end-of-the-day? If say if don't want too much exclusivity Because people feel part How do you create this human connection?

So it's density is something we talk about a lot. Density in the sense of both physical and emotional density, when look at our new site or project We designed actively proactively buildings that are clustered together communal areas That people can hang out and meet and discover serendipity. So members club is one type of programming. We do member's programing, but we also do guest programming where you can have morning yoga a silent meditation walk listening sessions and we do community barbecue across all of our properties.

And it's through these activations of spaces that you create the emotional density Where effectively your... You can build that sense of belonging in very organic way. And you mentioned already in the beginning that more European style of hospitality, peer-to-peer. What would say from European culture as a driver which creates a savorvivre or savoretre at ethos?

Yeah, ethos is ethos! It's very much... Everybody's born equal. All right, men women employees guests and members.

okay When you visit certain luxury properties today, You tend to have that idea of putting the guests on a pedestal. Sometimes they say guest are gods and that implies very vertical hierarchical relationship. essentially Ethos employees Are very much human beings And embrace our guests like equals. It's about inviting people into our worlds cultural exchanges to really bond on a human being, into human-being level.

It also helps I believe broaden the horizon right? There are lot of employees that are remembered by our guests for few years from, you know later. I spoke to somebody in New York last week was one of the AI giants uh...in-in New York and she mentioned that she visited Ethos Saragano three years ago And She still remembers The name Of the GM and the wine she had and That just indicates such a strong powerful memory.

A moment they shared. Uh..that goes beyond. You Know the beds and the bath tubs.

How do you trade? Employees on that? because of course you did mean that. You look at very different way on how you hire.

How would train? How are you enable your staff? Yeah, absolutely so. EQ like emotional intelligence is key There.

a lot of great SOPs out there protocols and obviously a lot groups also have scripts. in A certain kind number of minutes you need to hit, two do one service versus the other. ESO's focus is much more on training our teams on listening and engaging in a conversation. so as simple example it's in rooming for instance The focus of a rooming exercise not about showing guests where the light switches are It's much more around.

Hey, what are you interested in? Where're you from?" What are you here to do? And then linking this active listening, right.

Linking what they share... to the environment that we're in. Sharing a story about East London for instance and about shortage. all of our artworks are sourced locally.

so sharing something if the guest is interested in the topic-sharing something about art work or our mini fridge has locally brewed kombucha. So making the rooming exercise at point engagement very much on a, you know again human to human level is key. And it does take time and lot of work but something that we want keep investing in. How's with your guests today?

Always embrace like every guest who books at ethos knows what ethos is. they really booked for the purpose behind or do say okay yeah that die hearts and really love it. And then there's also some who just booked a beautiful hotel or cool design? Yeah, so in twenty-twenty five over sixty percent of our bookings were directs Repeat customers.

So there is that diehard group you're describing accused coming back and trying different properties And experiencing different cultures in the micro locations, of course a lot of people also. this we are still quite new. so a lot Of people also discover us from social media from online channels. We try to really Welcome everybody's so kind of come as you our type of philosophy.

often time when someone is away from the day-to-day routine, you see guests and members much more open to a new aperture of experiences. When they're not in your home city right? And that's when we kind of swoop in but also don't force it on them. if you want quiet peace We will leave you be, and that's very much the philosophy.

So what would your perfect guest in that sense? Is there a perfect... let say not necessarily guessed on age gender etc., is it maybe mindset or any kind of attributes where we say if they hit these two free nails then they just love their ethos experience?

so its interesting to ask about guests because our perfect guests and perfect members and perfect employees all share the same qualities. And it's very much around this idea of being curious, being conscious, being present and being open-minded - being free! You know? This...

I don't want to limit it only to Europe but there is an idea of inclusivity in ability to listen and learn these growth mindsets And that's very much when I see the most engaged guests. That is also what we are seeing in our most-engaged employees. It's a way of thinking and these values, which look at geopolitical world etc., it's exactly where you need more of.

A bit of serendipity or quiet, really people wanting to learn and engage with others. You have different properties, right? Like a different type of property from London to South Europe. Does that impact on experiences?

because in London I would not think about it as being kind of relaxed and calm at the same time? Absolutely! So before we build anything... We first look for sites with micro locations.

from research perspective Is there enough cultural depth? is There an element of nature or activation. so the local community and all that is also something which you embrace correct, So each property region is different absolutely. That's by design.

for instance I wouldn't want to go through a location where there's absolutely no culture, no history and we just create something. Europe is at least the great place to start! Europe has a lot of cultural history. but so that step one is really research that particular location especially for our hotels in Italy.

majority are in fact embedded into a local village. It's not even a local location, it is a village! They have their own food culture and wine culture of course history architecture and aesthetics. so we first research that location then build our offering or products around them individually.

each ethos hotel members club completely unique That something that is coherent and consistent across, it's a sense of feeling. It's this sense of community And thats very hard to keep and maintain and grow right? But its very much something we are delivering now. I think you mentioned the great point here about growing and scaling up brand.

We're at international hospital investment forum. Its all about what are new sites how things evolving For a brand like you and in the concept, what are your key elements to focus on? To make sure that you don't just scale the brand. The short-term value but really making sure it keeps community values at the core.

I see this as twofolds. First aspect is about people and maintaining that tight-knit sense of company culture where we are working towards a bigger purpose, very mission driven way of working. That is absolutely critical. as we grow We also want to make sure we retain our talents And allow them to progress their career As our company grows.

So cross property staffing cluster opportunities, and then of course moving within the portfolio as employees mature. That's one aspect so that people in culture is key when it comes to growing something almost like art right? So creative and new. The second aspects for me are discipline.

Actually, it's the courage to say no. There are a lot of destinations that... We don't need to name those but they're very much geared towards loud luxury right? The bling luxury.

you know It is all about champagne and gold and chandelier And how big your room is etc. And in those markets, you can definitely even within four months... in a seasonal destination. You're going to make very high return and high NOI and great noise..

you get a lot of attention but that is something from my perspective ethos would like to avoid. Ethos wants I want stay true the company needs to say true our DNA this authenticity kind of cultural richness bit. And if you give way to something that is loud and shiny, now then you'd lose your soul. Everything else that you built previously would also be diluted.

So in a sense of being the destination builder? That's right. You're not always looking for that TRA location. in terms of tourism flow towards that direction.

but culture... Is there enough experiences, right? To give you an example yesterday we talked about Lanzarote. the island is with obviously all their sports activities hiking mountain biking.

They also make wine and have local food culture. That's an example where Yes The market is growing as well. so great but that's an example were okay. We first research What experiences we can offer and what kind of real genuine story.

We can tell before we decide, okay do we enter this market? Which asset would look at? uh... And then how we build it.

so does development team looked different because not just a real estate people in finance people but actually really also like more storytellers that brand People who come together with you and select new locations. Yeah, so our company by its buy design is very mission-driven purpose led and because of that reason everybody on the across marketing sales operations, and of course development. We work very much closely together. I looked at an asset in Berlin recently And our operations team ourselves a marketing evaluated the opportunity to gather with my Development Team as an example.

so there's very much this sense shared mission and how can we all lean in to help our development colleague, uh...to make that kill right? To make the deal work for us as a company. And I think spirit is quite rare.

it's something i very much want to retain. you mentioned forty percent direct bookings sixty percent so sixty percent direct booking community building on. How important is, let's say maybe a less sexy topic but data about your guests and the community? Or it more about?

you're creating these experiences. So how do they come back? Is that just experience also really understanding your guest then being able to promote them all through right experiences at the right time? So if you think about everything that we do activity-wise, there's obviously the main booking system of property management.

There is also FNB like what you consume to prefer sparkling water or still water? There is spa and gym activation. There are programming so experiences Booking and then there is also membership activation. So membership is another set of data, right?

We're currently working on integrating everything into one. obviously they all exist And it's our data. capture rate across the board is actually we're aiming for ninety percent this year But it's already very high last year. but this year The priority is very much about integrating these various data points and You know to on the discussion of AI earlier today very much around making informed.

decisions or informed recommendations to our guests, while also keeping that curious mindset. Because I mentioned earlier the best ethos guests are employees and members. they're curious people their intellectually curious and adventurous right? And if you think you know everything about this person based on all these data points then you lose the open-mindedness You don't really listen anymore.

So it's very important that while we gather all this data what you like in terms of water or food. I also want to keep and maintain this culture of curiosity, just active listening engaging with the guests and talk them as human beings peer-to-peer As a brand. we need stand out right? And build your community.

There's something that our conversations previously which stood brand campaigns and how you position yourself on your website, then to the outside world. You know? You could argue doesn't necessarily always hundred percent reflect that values in you put because like super sexy it's about really bringing lifestyle out there. How come do guys deserve?

did you choose using this kind of brand language an imagery for ethos? Yeah, yeah. The brand campaign I think that you're referring to is the rules are different here and i think we go back to the beginning of the conversation where the brand stands for this open-mindedness this adventurous spirit in being free. it reflects a lot about being free.

It's this brand campaign, many of us in the company myself included. we have worked at other larger hotel companies before coming to Ethos and I think that alot came to ethos wanting do things differently Wanting explore experiment break a few rules right? And i think the Brand Campaign very much is an expression rebellion Like, it's us trying to say we can do things differently and we could be avant-garde or bold. This bold energy is what the brand campaign wants to communicate.

Obviously sensuality... That is a form of freedom as well. It's not the only form, and I want to emphasize that ethos itself it very life-friendly. We have guest at our Gen Z from millennial.

also all generations effect people who came to us when they're single, ready-to-mingle. They are now coming back as a married couple with children and their experiencing the same property in different ways there...they have different you know experiences that they sign up too. but I still enjoy ethos just this much.

And so that spirit of you know come SUR and just experiments. i think it's something precious Something That I want To continue. And then one kind of concept behind the rule breakers. You know, this idea of setting a slogan and rules are different here.

it's also because you know back in the nineteenth century do remember who their biggest rulebreakers were? Back then I'm not sure The Impressionists Right? Impressionism When they started painting when Manny started painting daily life day to day live normal average Joe. It was a scandal in the arts community, right?

They were rejected by the salon and people made fun of them And they're very controversial Today. oppressionism is one of the most celebrated innovations. I'm not saying our brand campaign will be so impressionist. You're putting yourself up there, but...

But i think that's energy like the idea you can break free and experiment in. it is something very proud of and want to continue as a company. You are quite young leader building and being in charge of ethos game changer. what has influenced you in your career to be taking these bold decisions and driving a new brand forward.

What has influenced you, in your leadership style? So I mentioned the reason why I joined Ethos. right it's a purposeful move for me, purpose driven movement personally but what have helped along my way? It's very much this relentless optimism, so to speak.

I am an incurable optimist and... I tend to see the world full of wonders and opportunities even if there is a lot of uncertainty in real life challenges And no matter how difficult things get or challenging situation it is.. I tend be able to see light at end of tunnel And I think that very much has brought me to, you know go through the various challenges including health challenges in my life and have grown as a person over time. Right?

Helped me grow moment in time when I discovered ethos, and there's an opportunity to bring ethos into a wider audience before they have their meltdown. Before the physical challenges is a privilege for me. so i took this on. What can you share with younger professionals listening through podcasts or aspiring leaders?

having setbacks in life and you know, what was like a mantra or something which kept your going? Or how did you approach these challenges. Yeah not a mantra but as I think discipline is very much owner's mindset I remember this one evening when I was late night with my analyst looking at the underwriting model for ICII, second round investment committee. And that late night I caught a mistake where there's a cost line To the wrong sale and when you correct it for its, It's a flip.

The case upside down essentially Um. And then I that moment i looked at the analyst his face and his expression and I could tell he was about to break down right? It can't be anything worse. Anybody who worked with long axle models and stuff like that, it's the worst one ever!

To realize that right? Like roughly twenty-four hours before... Typically a ways at the end And I know he has been working on back to back deals He is really smashed. I looked at it and in that very moment, I think it crystallized for me my belief that i should be the one responsible.

I am the one presenting to IC. So, i decided at that point... I'm going to own a mistake for IC to say excuse us we made a mistake. so now model doesn't work anymore.

We're gonna go back to sell side renegotiate and make it work. It's ownership mindset Also providing, I think psychological safety because the analyst was not fired. Obviously he panicked but it was not a fire and we made sure that deal is closed. It's delayed But in the end they were signed close.

And i think that idea of really owning your actions being accountable for what happens even if you didn't make all decisions around helps me be a little bit more courageous, you know? And being able to just take it and do the best we possibly can. Also let team experiment make mistakes grow learn from them. I think this is really inspirational myself coming form an entrepreneurial background especially when building up new companies You need as leader in my opinion To become great leaders.

give room for your teams fail And not fail and blame, but actually as you say take that responsibility. So because if people will try to go today limit they'll always stay in the safe space. You won't be able build something great Absolutely. And I believe so even more now with the kind of AI and a lot of efficiencies in productivities gained across the board, right?

I think that ability to think creatively, to experiment and then fail make mistakes will be really the future competitive advantage. We're getting to end off podcast. there's two last things I would love to ask you before we get into our game in a second about Book by Bulldoze, all of our listeners who listen to us smack regularly know the game. But looking at future closing question on that if ethos gets it right over next five or ten years what's your biggest hope?

that you guys have changed or impacted? if we could kind of select one theme. I believe ethos is part of this broader movement away from materialistic goods, materialistic ownership towards experiences and genuine connections right? Today at the very moment experiential luxury topic.

It's known and accessible to majority ultra high net worth individuals, and hospitality specialists. you know in five years time I dream of a day right where this ability to speak and connect on a human level, have genuine connection in moments of meaningful exchange. That ability is shared by the mass public that everybody knows. they had option not be isolated or lonely being able to connect socially personally also with nature their body.

when we reached at day then I believe ethos has served its mission. So now let's get to the game. For a game, we have chosen activities which you can book by bulldoze for your next property. maybe You can pitch quickly in one sentence where it is going to be and what makes it unique.

And then for that property We have three activities Bookable, I want to buy this for my whole group or definitely not gonna be part of our offering bulldoze. Okay we're opening a hotel in Lisbon next year. it's a Hotel and Private Members Club very much the first hotel where a real kind of full property hotel guest and members only operations. So the minute you walk into The Gates, You're in this urban oasis with multiple buildings an historic villa green space around you infinity pool Of course rooftop yoga!

Of course And already surrounded by people In the community Because everybody on property will be either a guest or member. And I think that's the first property where we're doing it, and we are doing in big way because its full of activations. We have whole floor just wellness well-being area and ultimately Lisbon is very much destination also full culture food And you're definitely a great salesperson. I was just there last week, so fresh every time we speak and just like okay after go to the website and check out when i can actually go there with my wife.

but um So let's get into game. Okay You Can Book Buy Bulldoze Meditation Garden Tree Planting Experience Or Virtual Reality Dining. Okay, so virtual reality dine definitely a bogus. No virtual reality dining.

I want real dining real food. And what's the other two? It's meditation garden tree planting experience. So interestingly we all of ethos properties We call it a meditation corner.

So all Isos properties today already have a meditation component weaved into our product design. in resort locations, you tend to have Meditation Garden indeed. so that's I guess the buy. and in city locations we mandate as a brand requirement, Brand Standard, we mandate dedicated area for meditation and experiences around mindfulness practice And then tree planting activity.

We also currently offer it's bookable in Saragano, in Umbria. So we have a property in Uumbria. obviously you need to be in the location with trees. Yeah In London right?

There are trees harder to access that my bookable and It actually is in Saragono. The way they did their Tree Planting Is just behind hotel That You Have A Name attached to it. And a tree planting activity is only done on New Year's Day, so its like the beginning of new years. That really...

It's really wonderful and you can go back to check out your trees. So we thought were little bit creative with tree-planting exercise but even went already in next level. that why you guys are professionals. You're welcome to visit us Lily thankyou for joining me pleasure having you and a real inspiration.

And looking forward to catching up in the few years on another podcast, I'm talking about all of great lives that have changed and how it impacted hospitality. Thank You Lily! Thank you Florian. Thanks for Having Me.

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