Stijn Oyen - Design Hotels | Selective by Design, Independence at Scale & The Marriott Partnership

What's going on everybody? Welcome back to the smack hospitality podcast with an episode that was recorded live at The Up Next Hospitality Festival here in Berlin and this episode features Mr. Steen Oyen, managing director of design hotels. And Steen and I talked about how Klaus Sennlinger idea from back in ninety-three transpired To what it is today three hundred plus hotels sixty different countries and especially How they're managing two balance between being part of Marriott and maintaining their individuality in everything they do.

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Hello, everyone! Welcome to the podcast... Oh this is a lot more comfortable than I had envisioned. All right hello everyone.

welcome to the podcasts. before i get going with Steen There is obviously the chance for you guys to participate in this podcast. So if you have any questions and please do keep them, we'll save some time at the end To make sure that you can ask whatever it's worth asking. The good news, Stina I'm gonna start very quickly because the timer isn't running yet.

so basically We're not on the clock yet. That's how the rules are. until somebody presses go on the timer. It's been great to have you, thank you for being here.

Design Hotels Manager, we've just had a chat behind the scenes from small little idea many years ago what it is today. Can you give me the brief rundown of design hotels very quickly right off the bat? How many hotels are we, We just talked about a team that's grown substantially as well. The office, the head office proudly so still here in Berlin.

Give me quick and brief run down. where do stand at this moment with Design Hotels? Absolutely Fritz. First of all good afternoon to everyone.

Thank You for joining And thank you For having Me. It is great To be Here. I was thinking were going. start as we said, a Belgian and German on stage.

I thought you were gonna grill me... We'll come to that! on the World Cup at the start. so please keep that out because it's not going well.

but go into design hotels like what Klaus founded over thirty-five years ago where currently three hundred fifty member hotels in fifty eight countries are. Roots obviously are here in Berlin and the majority of our members Are? In Europe. so about just over two hundred in Europe.

we've Just hit to the milestone of a hundred hotels in The Americas, and We've got about fifty members in Asia Pacific. So that's how were set up. We have our headquarters year. We celebrated yesterday Our one-year anniversary into our new office just opposite the the station of oscroids here, great space we're all together.

We are about a hundred thirty in there and then we have our satellite offices Singapore for APEC I would say between London PR & Communications New York and LA For The Americas. Yeah an old ground on that original idea bringing independent boutique hotels together bringing their vision alive. A couple years ago something happened, a lot of things happen. but one thing that happened was obviously Starwood came into the conversation and then very shortly after Marriott enough has been said about this part.

I don't want to dwell too deep on it If you look back and granted, obviously. You were not with the company at that time but... you've worked in a couple of Marriott properties previously as a GM And we'll come to Steen's career for another second As I was briefed from Chefs to MD. So what will get into it?

But tell me what happens. or has anything changed? you know, being part now of a big giant like the Bonvoy machine. You said to me previously when we had that conversation...

you're still very proudly taking decisions by yourself and it's important for you. but how has this gone? When you came into the company did you feel any of those? That yes were design hotels where trying to stay who they are while becoming part of Big M?

Yeah, I think that's obviously a great question. I worked many years actually for Starwood and then the merger happened. so... I'd seen some of the evolution of design hotels from kind-of like the starwood side working on hotels operating seeing how Starwood got involved with design And then off course you know full takeover with Merritt I think what we're really seeing now is that it brings us in a position where, you know one...

We have our design hotels headquarters here at Berlin. That hasn't changed and i think we are at the point of knowing very well how Design Hotels works within the bigger M so to speak. The beauty about this model. All of our hotels are unique and they take a stand.

They're all different, so it's not like cookie cutter model that the big M tries to throw at you or explode And grow very heavily. I do think... It gives us that balance. That is really kind of sweet spot.

where we were in now. We've historically always been good Having our creative community having these most amazing visionary properties that are just different, very design-led. You know boutique independent minded with a visionary behind which is the person That really sets us out. Maybe has an interesting stat sixty percent of our owners Of the hotels first time hotel owners because they're often projects.

if you would have been You know, working in hotels or you would have been a hotel for many years. Maybe it wouldn't even come to life and I think that's the stat that really connects to that. but at the same time It is great to be on our own To represent these visions of originals But we also have additional commercial power. That helps us.

A lot are people who you know, to my opinion I have a number of them that approach me and people are all looking for different experiences. And i think thats where. surely when Klaus back in the day had vision it was very early days what movement actually just started off independent boutique hotels. now obviously we also see where luxury is really trending a lot.

Would you say that the last couple of years, how travel has developed especially here in Europe? Where there's still a lot of independent hotels and that travel reflects... That would you say the last year this secluded luxury maybe even helped you was close ahead at his time when travel demand is going because people are perhaps less interested. no offense but The Big Ritz Carlton versus your more boutique experiences?

I think absolutely, Glaus was way ahead of the time and very much a visionary. And that's also what we're keeping alive today is so important. these fundamental pillars. right now We still go back to our book, we see it again in magazines or community events.

Yeah, and that is exactly what we're seeing right? We had the feedback the other day from the editor-in-chief of Conde Nast And a number of other. you know references out there in In the travel world at that. You don't people less and less traveled to places That leave them untouched.

then you might like them more. you might have less liked him less. you want To connect your locality. you wanted it to be individualized than its you know.

if one more I believe you know, there's more and more traveller out there that goes away from Golden Chandeliers in Marble to really an immersive experience. And a lot of these words have been overused and it is experimental hospitality etc., but we are seeing what has been representing for all this years. I think its one the main reasons why were at such a sweet spot.

What do you do to keep that? Because now, as I said it's three hundred hotels. When the idea first started with design hotels It was probably pretty easy-to-do. is a handpicked selection of hotels.

Now we have a team up one hundred and thirty people. There are teams looking at selecting properties to join. I'm sure there will be no shortage of applications or interest For those of that might not know what do you do to select a hotel? That gets the opportunity to join design hotels.

Yeah, I think first of all as a starting point in two thousand nineteen. just before covered we had exactly three hundred forty six members. So it kind off from there. yeah dip and then And then obviously some parts of the world were closed for quite sometime and We did lose a number of members maybe combined with some of the unsettling times that we had.

So now, back at that number and it's not quote for growth... It is all about our community! The people who represent us are much more than what hotels really are. But but yeah, we I mean We do have a team in place and house with us In design hotels.

to give you the idea. We get more or less four hundred applications A year. wow okay off which close two five percent. Make it make sure that's not You know.

because this don't get me wrong There's no arrogance on that. That is just how? How the process isn't yet And how it works. and that's also the important part of our You know, of our brand.

Of what we do... of our community is just so important that it sits right. So really look around on one. We want to bring destinations That are maybe a little bit off the beaten track.

I think originally when we merged with Merit or there was takeover We brought about ninety new destinations. To you know The portfolio One of the biggest out there. So it shows you that we would often be in places where they are maybe not fully discovered yet, or off-the-normal usual path. so I think thats part and obviously theres a lot creative projects out there which is really want to make sure that we connect these people into our community A lot what we do also connecting and feeding That community of our owners, or consumers if you can call that way.

Of the design hotels enthusiasts who look for properties because they look... For an experience which doesn't leave them untouched. If we look at Europe Because obviously that's where we are at the moment. I know you just came back from China not so long ago and will talk about APAC in a second if We look at Europe, ii Know That Thats Where The Story Began It Still Where You Have Most Hotels.

So Its A Truly Crucial Market For You. Guys Can You Tell Me What You've Seen In Europe And The Past Of The Ways? And Im Talking More Here About Demand Flows geopolitical uncertainties in some parts of the world, everybody was hyped to say at least about Euro summer. Is that what you guys have seen?

I know you've got quite a few properties also on the mountain. so as winter approaches it's something that is quite relevant. Give me your insights and what you see in Europe. And perhaps there are other some part of the Marriott executive team who are jealous because most of their hotels aren't in Europe.

Obviously, to start with we have one member hotel in Dubai. So obviously those recent geopolitical challenges you know... have not affected us that much directly. We see some movements where destinations like the Maldives..

we see that those hubs like Doha and Dubai Have had some effect on different markets. I originally thought obviously that Europe was gonna be like crazy, but going through the roof Yeah. But then I hadn't realized how much The petrol price would with them be affected and How our flight flight price? Would go up.

so then we were kind of a bit more conservative. But now as we roll into in to full summer it's actually. It's actually very very healthy And i think its combination you know, of that attractiveness off the hotels and the destinations. That are there.

so we're actually very positive about summer and the remainder year. And I think it's again... The resilience of our sector comes out and really also the fact something has fundamentally changed after COVID. How do you look at Europe in terms of what?

You're seeing when an addict and your portfolio. if we If we look it where you have your hotels right now like you said It's a you know, you're looking to add places that are little bit off the beat-and-track In line with demand. Can you give us some other insights on What you guys are up to across the European continent? And and what's coming?

there was a recent announcement not too long ago in America With Pali society were you added sixteen properties in one run. so yeah Give me gimme The rundown on what we can what we could expect from here anything you can tease question Mark. Of course, always! I think first of all about seventy percent of any new project or vision that we look at comes from our existing creative networks.

so they're either existing owners. there are designers or architects that have contact with in different destinations. Maybe to touch quickly on Pali society, which we just announced. Which brings us about, you know, sixteen new members mainly in the West Coast and US.

I had a pleasure of staying at few their properties The one in Melrose And Pali LA. But this again was a conversation they're making for last ten years Because some point i think it's two thousand fifteen or sixteen. Klaus and Avi, the founder of Pali society. And his wife Kirsten were together on stage at La Miami.

It wasn't a time back then but that conversation never went away. They just do amazing neighborhood hospitality as we would say. Apart from that We opened yesterday a beautiful new member, Iremito in Milos on the island of Milos with our original Calia and Antones. We have a property...

A beautiful property with them at the beach in Santorini and a beautiful property in Paros. And now we've just opened Milos There's something really exciting coming in London. The list goes on. Yeah, the list does go but again it's very much created in a natural way.

It is really making sure that our super power and community are the base of everything we do. If you look at your career those who don't know and correct me if I'm wrong You know one thing or two about kitchen If I'm not misinformed, that's how it started. Then you spent your time as a GM. You've worked in a couple of places one including for the Arabella group Not too long ago.

who? Yes Which I know that Karl Heinz was here as well and then kind of moved into Into The Design Hotel role That you're now if we look at that trajectory tell me this Are there some of the things that you've seen specifically as a GM when in your roles, and perhaps also before you became a GM? That you still look at while traveling around. I'm sure you're still walking to hotel in the evenings...

Uh-oh! That's not how it should be. Still think our headquarters here on Berlin is like the lobby for hotels. every morning i arrive my team knows so well go do full round If you would be a GM and you'd walk to the lobby, meet your guests.

We're in people's business right? For me from when I was small every kind of tile at my mom's place as a young boy... I saw it on fire but just cooking one way or another. That is how we ended up working in kitchens My first experience to a restaurant and it ended up being connected with a hotel.

And that's how I ended in the hotel, so still love cooking at home but probably can't teach you a trick or two anymore. some really basic stuff. for when my daughters ask me about B&S sauce of the days I was in The Kitchen. It wasn't always an easy environment, so it humbled you out very quickly.

Very quickly! It's all about teamwork and being together... Everything had to be perfect right? Otherwise the play just wouldn't go out.

And i think that is the basics you know, of a lot what we do in hospitality. I just think it has really evolved. where especially at hotels having the basics for products or have the best possible bed etc., those are really that's given.

and now its really about how to bring on top of them? How can you treat me, keep connected with others make sure i leave as better person you know, how do I connect? How do i live like a local in the place where I go. How do I learn new skill?

and I think that after today we're so connected online. there's much movement of... There is so much on line. at same time were all longing for more offline as well And thats really what was seeing in travel but want to do meaningful travel.

That´s why we are connecting with each other. Tell me this, obviously if we look at the last couple of three or five years there's some competitors have arisen. There are new brands out there and they're something that has been competing in your space for a while and brightly. so how do you view it?

Because you will forever be able to say We were the first one, so sit down. But how do you view that there's a lot... Whether it is handwritten collection from our core or in other brands as well? There are also some individuals trying to replicate the business model which you guys have.

Is this conversation that we even had at the head office? Are you focusing on your way and thats what we run? I would say very much focus on on our path and really stay true to what our values are, not just trying go into any little trend. And I think that's why it has brought us where we are today.

Of course there is a lot of competition. i think its great. We really welcome that. It makes you makes you better, right?

I was just in the last few days watching the Netflix series on Nadal and there's like this rivalry with Nadal. And Federer. it made them both so much better when they both thought then there is Djokovic coming along... You know i think its pretty similar.

we all need that to bring you know, the best of yourself out. But while saying that I do think in our space it's very... You know? It is usually quite obvious where certain properties might fall.

Yeah and how a certain vision or project falls into connection with what we are doing what we can bring them. We're really partners and advisors rather than, you know...we don't run these hotels. so I think it actually works in your favor yeah but also very healthy competition by the way.

follow the man on LinkedIn. It's a good place to read up on some trends. I know you just came back from Asia, You Just Came Back From China A Market That Traditionally had been very strong for Europe a market that is not back the way That it has been. could you give me your impressions of that trip just out?

Of pure curiosity in terms of know what you're seeing? and And I realize there's probably more topic four hotels, and big capital cities in Europe. But the reality as you know The Chinese traveler the Chinese middle class that we were bragging about between the years whatever twenty Seventeen to twenty nineteen. Hasn't come back post-the pandemic.

What was that? Was the conversations like that you thought you had while you where they are? Yeah, so first of all we had We've always had some hotels in greater China. We lost All our members in mainland China actually over COVID.

So when I joined design now three years ago kind of you know looked at how would go back and so i have been a number times now And each time was impressed with with the creative community, how much they're ahead in a lot of things. For example? Well compared to us on anything I would maybe give a stupid example... I took the high-speed train from Beijing to Shanghai which is the fastest train strip.

The bullet train thing yeah. And you sit there and someone passing through all time cleaning. suddenly we see like the train stops, I think four or five times and you know it's set up in that way. That can basically pre-order your food from any place you want.

then comes to next station. they bring them onto a train for which is small detail but i'm still waiting. when we'll have... I hope don't expect that from Deutsche Bahn because there are far bigger problems here.

That's a different, I'm not sure if they were sponsored maybe in the next couple of years. Maybe you could let them know about this? Okay yeah. so aside from that any other Chinese...

The Belgian version is it's not much better. It's no much better okay that's ok. then You just feel right as these. I always was with their perception.

obviously there has been different periods and i think it felt like what we would do but wouldn't have to say quality Completely gone. we see some of them. Some of our most amazing projects are coming to life. You know I was just so.

you know, you go from Chang'ai To Liyang and then it's a four-hour drive on her. So we have hotel there on Arcadia place which is on three thousand two hundred meters height Absolutely stunning surrounded by this massive massive lake, you know they're for whole community art production and creation, I mean absolutely mind-blowing what they do. The way that it involves you with the local culture... You know?

They take you out there to get involved in the local communities. Absolutely fantastic! We see a lot of potential at the moment. so we signed our first hotel again last year.

by the end of this year, we will probably have fifteen members back in Mainland China. Yeah just in the interest of time Esteem can I ask two more things from you? Number one and then if you have any questions guys i'll take a question or two for Esteen. number One If You Had to Bet on Something In The Hospitality Business And Then Next Let's Say Two Years Or So It can be a trend, it could something that you see happening.

Something doesn't necessarily have to relate directly to design hotels and the wider demand flow. Give me some thing. if we meet two years from now for beer in Belgium or Germany I'm fine with both. What would give as year-and-a-half?

Two years from? know what do think? yeah If i had the bet on today thats probably gonna happen. Probably two things I think.

the part of individualization will go to next level. There'll be more movements for sure with private membership clubs in somewhere connected, and actually there's more mergers coming one way or another. but... luxury more and more will move into that direction of what we talked about before, these bespoke experiences on individuality.

Making you feel a different person one or the other way right? You might like it less but be more bespoke rather than this is... Here you've got a box which will replicate in many different many different places. Yeah, and then I'm personally curious what will happen with you know there's obviously this testing going on in the famous Sydney-London flight...

The Sunshine Project? Yep! Twenty two hours like that would be a game changer. I would anticipate that, yeah.

Soho House Design Hotels Members Club? Is it something we can announce today or is too early to say? Okay second question before we come closer and i want play a game with you at the very end scene on Smack. Second question from your travels in last six months because i know you travel frequently.

Can you give me moment which stood out for us can be on the flight, in a hotel cafe around the corner. Give me a moment and... A true hospitality moment where you thought either goddamn this is cool. or what the hell?

One boy with cancelled flights! And delays. I think one of my most special moments was we were out. We spent some time at Bali after further east so November and then from there went to the island, you know I hadn't been anywhere further than kind of like Bali.

so we went to Sumba and Lombok. And in Sumba we have a member hotel which is owned by even Fabrice their Parisian couple. they fell in love with this place. Back then, I'd actually never heard of Sumba before.

So it's double the size or valley but a fifth of the population and they found their favorite spot there ended up. you know They originally connected to that community And they really felt so strongly off doing something where they would connect with people. absolutely a mind-blowing hotel to start with. But secondly, it has this additional layering.

so they originally had like eight hundred of the local people that joined them in different blessing ceremonies and get involved. They do you know local culture presentations where You're connecting and going out into the different parts of the island. They have the best, obviously with my chef background. The best farm to table I've ever seen.

they have this massive beautifully well-done farm but there's about twenty people working in it and do everything themselves. so you can go spend your time learn about historic techniques new techniques then combine that with a monthly turning over chef's table, where every month the chef kind of changes. And they have this beautiful typical industrial kitchen. but we're like the chefs working tables stops there is a table that connects to it directly and thats when you sit.

I mean obviously being crazy gastronomic lover. its very connected. It changes everyone what they do on farm. I've never seen it that well integrated.

So, there was definitely a special moment yet apart from the long flights together. Okay, fair enough! Yeah just like that, see thirty-five minutes have passed so we had a game to play on smack which I teased you beforehand but don't know what's coming and it is called Book Buy Bulldoze. So i'm going give three brands And this no way representative of Steen's design hotel opinion.

It says very personal opinion Just to disclaim That...So ill give you three. We've obviously customed these two What You Do A Little Bit The Three. I'd Like You To Book One for stay with your family.

You get to buy one integrated into design and you get to kill the other, okay? So I'll give you three. Soho House Okay Leading Hotels of The World And Relay & Chateau. This is going to be published live just so you know.

yeah Oh i'm enjoying this. Maybe we can talk about football now. I thought of giving you three Marriott brands, but i didn't want to risk that because your PR lady is standing there so i would have probably been waving the red flag... Okay let's tackle this!

So i would buy Relay Chateau? Oh wow okay it was my first job and they do a great job at Buksoho House. Yeah, and leading is unfortunately... Well I wouldn't bulldoze them but it's yeah!

You've got to choose one though? I gotta chose one right. so that's the number with... Very good.

Steen thank you very much. round of applause for Steen. everyone Thankyou! That's it for this episode.

everybody thanks for tuning in. don't forget share your thoughts on this episode everything else going on at Smack With Us by checking out our website at smack.media or connect with us on LinkedIn, YouTube and Instagram. We'll see you next time!