Amy Kadomatsu’s Rise to CEO and Now Boards

Speaker A: Welcome to Shesess Unplugged, the podcast where we dive deep into the world of female leadership in the private equity SaaS industry. I'm your host, Christine Maslin, and I'm on a mission to spotlight the incredible female CEOs who, uh, are making waves in our industry. Join us, uh, as we embark on a journey to explore the triumphs, challenges and pivotal moments in the careers of 12 extraordinary female leaders. Over the course of 12 episodes, you'll hear firsthand from these trailblazers as they share their insights, experiences and the secrets to their success.

Speaker B: Today I'm joined by Amy Kadamatsu, who most recently served as, uh, CEO of Comply, a fast scaling SaaS business backed by Vista Equity Partners. Now Amy, I know that I've been on your case for the best part of a year, so I'm so happy that we're finally making this happen. Welcome to Sheetsas Unplugged.

Speaker C: Thank you so much and thank you for having me. I mean, you know, it's one of those things where, as I was saying previously, I'm just me. And so it's always a pleasure and a delight to be asked.

Speaker B: Wonderful. And you know, that's one of the reasons why it's so impactful to hear your story. Right. And to humanize the very few female leaders, female CEOs, I should say that there are. So, yeah, thank you once again for joining us. Uh, perhaps to start, starts off, you can tell us a bit about your, your background and how your path has led you to leading a fast scaling SaaS business.

Speaker C: Yeah, thank you. And I guess I would say just since people probably who are listening to this don't know, kind of, I gone from a Chief Product Officer to a CEO, then I turned into a CEO and now a board director. And this path, while it is my lived experience, I realize that it's something that is a little bit unusual. And so I'd love to share that and hopefully to inspire other people to aspire and reach towards that, especially young girls who might be able to listen to this at some point. And so as I look back, I think that I was a natural leader. Since I was a child, it's easier to look back with 2020 hindsight and say, and to connect the dots in this particular way. But when I think about my earliest memories, when my mom would tell me, oh, you, you said that you wanted to be a business person. I had no definition about what that would be, but it was always towards business and thinking about my career, I don't really See it as a series of titles per se, but a series of experiences. So I had this idea, this idea that I wanted to lead, that I wanted to do more. I had gone to undergrad, I went to investment banking, then I went to school. And coming out of business school, this idea that I would go and start things, drive organizations, build teams, those were all, uh, things that I found so fulfilling. And that's what then drove me to think broader and bigger. And I had mentors in my life who, um, were able to help me to do that. Um, but at each juncture it was this question of, okay, what is it that the organization is doing? What is it that I can bring to the table? Are there other things that I could be doing that might be beyond my title but would help the organization go forward? And so because of the fact that I had, I had gone to startups right after business school, I think that I immediately was pushed into this ownership mindset which I think then served me so well as I continued in my career and into high growth SaaS, companies with private equity firms. Um, this idea, and if people aren't familiar with the owner's mindset, it's this idea that treating the company or project as if they were my own, as if it was my dollar being spent for every single thing. And there have been instances in which, you know, I obviously started my own company, all of these co founded with other people. But this idea that every decision and taking off your, let's say chief product officer's hat and putting on the owner's hat is so valuable and such a huge skill set that I think that people should think about in their context because it leads you to interesting conversations. So as an example, when I was the CEO and um, the president, then I ended up actually giving away teams that reported to me because I was like, okay, this is not serving the organization any longer. It is now up and running. I've developed it, somebody else can take it on, to move it forward, to take that to the next level and understanding the value that you bring to the table and not having this kind of wall, creating walls or creating fiefdoms within an organization is something that you do when you have an owner's mindset. Because you're not trying to build up yourself, you're trying to build up the organization in whatever way that you think is the best that you can. And so I think that having that perspective has been really beneficial. And then in those experiences, I think that's where then it was not just product innovation and Scaling. Right. That was obviously that's kind of like table stakes for being a Chief Product Officer. If you're not doing that then I'm not sure what you're doing. But definitely building the organization from that perspective. But then participating in things like fundraising and closing and M and A, all of those pieces were different pieces. As I thought about becoming then the CEO, thinking about compensation plans, being involved, thinking beyond just product was hugely valuable to becoming a CEO. And then now as I think about being a board member on the other side advising CEOs, it's about taking all of those, you know, perspectives and bringing them to bear to be able to have that operator's mindset alongside the CEO. And that's very different from then the private equity teams that, who might come to the table who are really much more deal oriented.

Speaker B: Yeah, I mean really interesting. I love, I love that perspective, that kind of sense of ownership. Think and act like the business is your business and spend every dollar, um, like it's your own. You know, I think it um, opens opportunities, it makes, makes you think more broadly across the organization as a whole and um, you know, genuinely acting in the best interest of, of the business. I've never quite heard, heard it put like that before. So um, that's yeah really interesting. Thank you for sharing that. And you touched on, you know, your route has been really through the Chief Product Officer uh, role. You know, you come up through that kind of product background. It's not every day that you see a woman leader, uh, with either a product or an engineering background in the group CEO role. So you know, I'm curious, I know you studied at Harvard. I couldn't see what you studied. So I'm interested to understand what did you study and how that shaped your path into product leadership roles like the Chief Product Officer role.

Speaker C: You really made me think about my path and like what I, what uh, I had done and what the path was to come here. I would say first of all, as it relates to the Chief Product Officer role, I really hope, Hope that more CEOs choose this path to start because a great Chief Product Officer should be basically driving the business, not just product. If you're thinking about bits and bobs and you're adding this enhancement, yada, yada yada, that is not enough to be a true Chief Product Officer. A uh, true Chief Product Officer is understanding the behavior of your clients that are on your product. What they want, what the buyers want to and what they are telling you in between the lines. But they have that they don't know yet that they want. All of those things are part and parcel of the Chief Product Officer's roles. And thinking about the role itself, typically, you know, product teams are relatively small as compared to the whole organization. But if you're a great chief Product officer, you're able to influence across the table. It's an incredible cross functional role where you're driving sales and marketing and you're pushing them as well as then so upstream and downstream into technology and finance. And you have them at the table, none of them report to you, but you're able to then really bring to bear all of the forces within the organization to go forward. And thinking about the Chief Product officer or someone who drives the business is effectively then, you know, I thought of my role as yes, I have to, you know, think about the bits and bobs, but ultimately if the product is not being sold correctly, if ultimately we're not servicing the client correctly so up and downstream, then the product won't sell and then the business look at that way. So one, obviously I have a lot of passion for people with product. But at Harvard I read um, the closest thing. And at the time, you know, I didn't really know that I was going to go into product. I had no concept of this. I studied economics. It was the closest thing to anything businessy that you get at a liberal arts college. And you know, I think that that perspective of rational thinking, thinking about the consumers and how they behave, that consumer behavior component is an interesting part of what economics did for me. But ultimately, if you think about the path, then I went to investment banking, which has nothing to do with product, but that was the shortest distance between undergrad and um, business school. And business school was really this exploratory opportunity which is something that, you know, at the time I'd never really given myself the opportunity to do, to sit then say, the world is my oyster. What is it that I want to go do? And it was an incredible opportunity to then say, okay, I don't want to be in investment banking long term. That's not the path for me. I don't want to be a management consultant. What I do really want to do is to go build teams and build companies and software and technology was this incredible emerging market at the time that I was coming out of business school. And even today there's just different waves of technology opportunity. And I said, let's take a risk. After business school, I made less my first year out of business school than I did before business school. And so I think this Idea of taking calculated risks at every point in time, what is it that we're risking? Yes, I was making less money than I did before business school, but at the same time I believe that this was an opportunity that I might not have in the future if I had a mortgage, if I had children, if, you know, if, if, if, if, if. And it was an incredible lesson to then start to believe in myself and my gut and my instincts.

Speaker B: Yeah, really interesting to listen to your, um, to your route up and you know, to hear risks paying off. And you took those risks at ah, exactly the right time. Although you couldn't, you couldn't have known that at the time. I'm such a big believer in listening to your, you know, to what your gut's telling you as well. So, so let's talk about some of your early experiences and that spark of entrepreneurial spirit that you've clearly had from the begin. Um, you co founded two very different ventures, Rocco Labs, which is a consulting firm that advises private equity funds and enterprise clients on SaaS strategy. Um, and I exchange. What experiences did you take from building both of those businesses and uh, what drew you to the startup world in the first place? And uh, particularly interested in understanding a little bit more about I Exchange.

Speaker C: Going to sound a little bit like a broken record, but I think that if anyone was to take something away from the discussion, one is, you know, understand how to take calculated risk. And so we'll talk about that in the context of both of these things. And then number two is, you know, when you're a co founder, you really are thinking like an owner and you're wearing different hats and you have to then consider what are the strategies for you to grow and scale. And so when we think about, um, taking calculated risks, stepping into the unknown, pushing yourself to do that. When I was coming out of business school, there was this incredible kind of surge of people who were going into entrepreneurship. And as I looked at different opportunities within technology, this one opportunity, which turned into I Exchange in Los Angeles, which is where I had been from and where my fiance at the time, who's now my husband, um, was based. I, I was able to be part of this incredible incubator called Idealab with Bill Gross. Bill Gross the entrepreneur? Not Bill Gross, the, the, the from pimco, the financial services are. And I joined him to work on a number of different things. And I met then an incredible mentor, someone who has been my CEO multiple times, David Eisner. And he was this adult in the incubator. And I met him and I, I, or I should say I kind of accosted him and said, hi, I'm Amy Katawatu. How are you telling me what you're working on? And you know, he was, I talked to him um, again and he was coming off of a plane. He was like, well, I don't really have a position yet, but I'm uh, presenting to Kleiner Perkins on Monday. This was a Friday. So if you want to help me on the presentation to Kleiner Perkins, then let's get started. And that was this turning point, um, and this opportunity for me to then really be at the, you know, in the front row to thinking about and experiencing both the CEO position but also um, the experience with boards, um, and going from a product that was a idea on a napkin to then creating it in real life and taking it forward. And ixchange had everything to do with um, research. So it was this idea that there is, um, a lot of armchair, um, uh, information and armchair analysts. And so when you think about glg, uh, Gersten Lerman Group and other kinds of professional networks, right now it's that same concept. But it was very early on in the Internet days and I think taking that risk. Okay, can I start this then with Roka Labs? It was, I was coming out of a, uh, S And P Table IQ, which is a publicly traded company with 15,000 people. And I was leaving that and I promised my husband that I would look for a late stage technology company. And then I had to. Maya Culpa. Uh, I had to say that I'm very sorry and that I know that I said that I would look for a late stage company. But actually what I really wanted to do was to co found this company, Roko Labs, with these two other people who you know, I had known from my prior work and it was this consulting organization. And basically what I said was, what I promise is, is that if in a year I can't pay my own salary and bonus, I promise, promise, promise, pinky promise. I will go sign your real promise.

Speaker B: Sounds like you've got a very supportive husband.

Speaker C: But honestly, you know, he was the one who originally. So from I exchange I went to themarkets.com themarkets.com was also the CEO David Eisner. I moved from California to New York for that and my husband and I lived apart for a while and my husband was the one. I give my husband a huge amount of credit. He was the one who said, you know, we've worked with a lot of people over this time. And David Eisner is someone who has invested in you, who has given you challenge, who really trusts you and your judgment. You should go work with him again. And I was like, you know, we just got married, we just moved, bought a house, moved into a house, and the company's in New York. There was no remote work at that time, you know, and he was like, no, I know, but you, you should talk to him. And six weeks later, I started at the markets.com on the east Coast. And then as I left, as we got acquired, I was at Standard and Poor's for a few years. And then I decided that I wanted to leave. He, too, again, was super supportive. And. But he also, I think, knew he had to resign himself. He knew that there was no stopping the past. So get on board or not. Those are kind of the two choices. And so he got on board. But I think that also, again, is take calculated risk.

Speaker B: Yeah, that's really, um, really powerful story. You know, just going back to, um, the hard work that, that idea, and David saying to you, you know, I've got a presentation on Monday morning. Why don't you help me prepare for it? And taking it from kind of idea on a napkin to an actual product and actually saying, yeah, okay, let's, you know, let's spend my weekend on this, and then let's spend more time on this. And, you know, you knew he was somebody that could be influential to you in your career, and you, you know, you kind of set your sights on working with him, really. And, uh, it just shows how you created that opportunity for yourself. And you can't do it with people. We can't do it without people who love you and who you love being there to, you know, to support. So it's really a story that resonates a lot with, with me. And, you know, it's really, really nice to listen to it and to see that the success came out the other side as well.

Speaker C: Yeah, I was like, I didn't have to go find a, uh, quote, unquote, real job. Um, we continued and the company has thrived and all of these things. And so, um, it was, it was an incredible ride.

Speaker B: Congratulations. It definitely sounds it. So let's talk about Comply, which, um, has been your most recent role. You joined Comply as CEO and then became the president and then the CEO within two years. What was that transition, transition like for you?

Speaker C: I mean, I think to the conversation that we've had before. You can't do it on your own. It just doesn't happen. It's not magic that happens. I think part of it is one, um, this idea, this putting on the owner's hat, thinking like a board member, an investor is super important from the get go. Um, two was then choosing, making sure that you're choosing who you work with. In this case I was reporting to the CEO and thinking about that relationship with the CEO and whether they were going to be willing to invest in me was super important. And then I think the last part of it was this switch ultimately of uh, working on the company versus working in the company. And so when you think about thinking about like a board member and investor, because of my prior experience having started companies doing some of these other things, when we were bringing coming into Comply, it was at the same time in which Vista Equity Partners was also coming into the business itself. And so I had kind of this front row view because I was T minus 30. I had accepted the job but I hadn't actually started when my CEO called me and said, hey, so uh, Vista Equity Partners has a term sheet and we need to do confirmatory due diligence. Can you come help? And literally I didn't know much, uh, you know, of the details of the company, but you had to make a choice, just like I had to make a choice about this planet, Perkins presentation, etc. Etc. And I said, okay, let's do it, let's go in, let's figure out how we can complete this deal, do this confirmatory due diligence and maybe I'll be at a, out of a job before I even start a job. Actually started the whole time. Uh, it was quite the journey to be honest with you. But I think then thinking about, okay, what is the value creation plan? How do we think about this not just as the CEO, but then in a, in a broader sense, what are the things that need to happen within the organization. I think uh, putting on these hats is an important part. Then the second was the CEO who I came in to report to within Comply with somebody who I'd worked with for many years@the markets.com. so David Eisner was one of the first. I moved to New York to work with David Eisner. Jean Marc Levy and David Eisner were both at Comply and David Eisner was the chairman and Jean Marc Levy was the uh, CEO and he had been the CSO, the chief financial officer@the markets.com and he gave me a call and was like, hey, uh, I need somebody by my side to help me make this happen. We need to, we have all of these amazing pieces of the organization. But in order to grow the organization and professionalize the organization, I need a bunch of things. And I think that you might be the perfect person to do that. And so this idea. Both Jean Marc and David also knew from the get go that I was interested in continuing my career. I had more ambition. I wanted to be a CEO. I wanted to do other things. And as they brought me on and as I worked with Jean Marc, he truly not only is and was an incredible mentor, but then promoted me within the, the organization, within Vista. And so because of him, I was able to participate in the Pinnacle program at Vista, which is like the pre CEO program. You know, it doesn't happen if your CEO doesn't support you to do those things. And so having a manager who is invested in you and who is willing not to be, you know, selfish in, like, holding you in and is willing to kind of give you leeway to do your thing is so, so important. And for women who are, you know, looking at opportunities, I think it's super important not just to think about the work that they're doing, but who they are working with and for, um, because if they are not being promoted within the organization, if they're, if they're not able to have that connection with their manager, to then be able to get to the next level, it's. It's super hard. And then I think that the last thing was working on the company versus working in the company and working. It was. It's so easy to work in the company. Uh, very good at, you know, operationalizing, doing the things, working on the company and thinking about, okay, strategically, how do I take myself out of the chief product officer hat, out of the COO hat, out of the president hat, and thinking about the company writ large and how is it that we satisfy the value creation goals that we've got in front of us? That's a different. It's a different mindset. And so I think then I was able to have a different conversation with Jean Marc about not just what I should do within my portion of the organization, but what we should do as an organization to ultimately satisfy our goals and taking a little bit of time, you know, everyone's work got so much work. You've got your calendar that's totally full, but spending a little bit of time, taking that time out to then really think about the company, making sure that you are creating space, whether it's meditation or exercise or whatever have you that allows you to turn off for just a little bit of the day to day, it's an unlock. It's amazing. And yeah, I think that was a huge opportunity. There was, you know, I think a specific project that we worked on too that I think early on showed to my board that, oh, this lady's got a little bit something extra that other people might not have. Ah. And being bold within the organization is important.

Speaker B: Yeah, I mean it's really clear that you're passionate, you're so passionate about telling um, this story. I love it. And some of the same themes are carrying through sense of ownership. See where the journey takes you. Right. If you act in the best interest of the business and think broadly and work on the business, not in the business. I like that one. That's one I'm going to use in the future. Take calculated risks, work on relationships, make sure you've got good sponsors, make sure you've got good people around you to support and yeah, be passionate. It's uh, definitely some common themes that I can see developing from m, uh this discussion. So back in 2018 when you joined ComplySci, as at the time I think they were called, you obviously received the strategic investment from Vista alongside Edison Partners. You joined the business around about the same time. You made I think four acquisitions three years later in 2021, which I think, I think from research all happened, they all landed in the same quarter. Can you tell us a little bit more about those and you know, what was the strategy around those acquisitions?

Speaker C: Sure. So, uh, you know, I came into the CEO role at the end of 2020. So if you take back, the clock was right in the, you know, midst of COVID So everybody was locked down and I got tapped on the shoulder to and asked whether or not I wanted to become the CEO. And I was just, there's so there was so much opportunity for the organization, um, to continue to grow, to dominate the space. Who would have thought when I did economics in undergrad that um, I was going to be the CEO of a compliance organization. Not something that anybody says ever. The thing that I asked Vista when, when I became the CEO was in the first year. Please do not ask me to try to create an exit for this organization. That's just too much. You know, it's like a first time CEO. We're in Covid and we're all remote and so just don't make this one of my KPIs. And they were like, okay, that's, that's fair. We won't make it a KPI for yours. Of um, year one of your tenure as CEO. And then K1 Investment Management came calling. And so I had known, uh, the founder of K1, Neil Malik, from business school, but you know, we really had never talked about ComplySci, um, previously. And he called out of the blue. And then one thing led to another. I was talking to him about ComplySci and, and the fact that I had become the CEO and what we were doing. And then he introduced me to another colleague of his, Hassan Askari, who has been in the GRC space and has invested in a number of other companies like Smarsh. And we had been courted by many private equity firms over the course of that time. And you know, I found many of them to be lovely people. We had really engaging conversations, but I found many of their kind of their perspective on, on, um, the industry pretty similar. And what stood out to me about what K1 brought to the table was a differentiated view of the market and what Comply PSI that then became comply could be as a platform investment and as the CEO. Then what you're looking for is both a combination of is there a cultural kind of connection? I mean, these are people that you're going to have to deal with in the good days and in the bad. And then number two is, is there alignment? Is there alignment on the vision, my vision, their vision, is it going to come together? And this idea that then complysci could be a platform investment m that we can then dominate the market, that was something that I was very excited about. And that was the reason why then I brought this back to this data to say, like, hey, look, I know I said all these things about not having an exit in the first year and blah, blah, blah, but this is the reason why I think that it's a fantastic time and opportunity for us to do this. And in the context of this, I brought a deal to the table with K1 and that was the alumnus deal. And then K1 had already been doing a ton of research in this particular market and was like, hey, look, so we've got this carve out, um, NRS from Rolex, which also owns LexisNexis, and they might be willing to do a deal. And we've got RNA box. Let's start to work on these things to make this platform opportunity a reality. And I was like, look, man, three companies at the same time. Do we really? I was like, oh my God, please.

Speaker B: I can't imagine how intense that must have been.

Speaker C: It was, uh, a little bit manic and crazy and I do not recommend,

Speaker B: but it was still successful. For Comply.

Speaker C: I guess it was still very successful for Comply. And that's how we were able to drive, you know, top line growth by 400%. All of these other pieces, both organic and inorganic, it was a wild and crazy time. But I think this idea of, uh, then if we move from Comply, Sci Fi, which was a small company that was targeting compliance for financial services firms to then think about a broader vision. How are we going to be the firm and employee compliance solution across financial services firms include from RAs that are one or two people, all the way to multinational global banks. I mean, that's a wildly different vision of what we could accomplish. And that's effectively what we did when we, when we moved and we acquired all of these companies. And so this change of, and opening the aperture of what we could do was hugely exciting for us and for the employees. Um, and I think, you know, part of being within a private equity organization and what matched so well for my own personality, which is what I would say other people need to also consider, is I am a change agent. Um, I'm very comfortable with change, very comfortable with transformation and driving transformation. And when you think about organizations, private equity firms are looking for 3, 4, 5 times exits and um, being able to scale organizations, you can't do that without transforming the organization in some way. Just continuing along what we were doing yesterday and doing that tomorrow is not sufficient. And so making sure that your personality type kind of is compatible with a private equity organization and just the pace that private equity organizations are expected to deliver on is super important. And I just happen to luck into the fact that, you know, we were highly compatible from that perspective.

Speaker B: Yeah. What an incredible story and journey that you've had at Comply. And I think you've trusted your gut feel a lot. You know, the people that you've met with, do you think you can work with them? Is the cultural fit there? And you know, I think if the chemistry is right between the leadership team and the investors, don't get me wrong, it can't always be, um, you know, it can't always be perfect harmony. But if the chemistry's there and people trust one another, that's when we see the greatest successes, you know, happen. And the piece around Joe Mallett, the founder of K1, who you knew from business school, and you already knew clearly that, you know, there was a match there in terms of personality and culture and the, I want to call it maybe a coincidence that they had just been looking at the market and they're lining up. You know, it just fits Fit together so, so well.

Speaker C: You can't underestimate like you do need to work hard to be lucky. But there is so much of this coincidence of these like being in the right place at the right time that happens within success that we cannot underestimate that. But you know, you can't do that if you're just waiting. Um, you're, you do need to work hard to be lucky.

Speaker B: Yeah, you need to work hard and like you say, and we'll come onto this shortly, create your own opportunities. And uh, it's just been really inspiring to listen so far to how you've made it to the CEO and it'd be really interesting to also learn about what's next for you. But that kind of brings me quite nicely onto the next set of questions around private equity and SaaS leadership, which is kind of what she SaaS is all about. Supporting women in that kind of journey, working for a private equity backed SaaS business, or wanting to kind of step into that world as a leader. When you stepped into leadership at uh, Comply, what excited you most about leading a SaaS business in a private equity setting?

Speaker C: I mean, I think that so, so first of all, I had already been in the business, so it wasn't coming in from the outside, which is a slightly different. You know, let's just recognize that there is like a slightly different motion if you were to come in as the CEO or as a C level employee versus kind of ascending. They both have their pros and cons. Um, from my perspective, um, you know, I had so much excitement about the opportunity for our organization. It's the reason why I joined in 2018 and it was the reason why I continued in 2020 to be so excited about the opportunity that we had ahead of us. You know, I just think we had just been scratching at the surface, um, to what we could ultimately do and what we could deliver. And there was, I saw a huge opportunity in front of us in terms of just, you know, the tam, the market, all of those other kinds of things, um, that if we were able to then deliver products, services in the right way, expand the things that we were doing, I really saw that we could dominate the market. And so as a first step, you have to actually be excited about the product. In spite of the fact that I had never imagined myself to be the CEO of a compliance company when I was in undergrad

Speaker B: or be excited about compliance.

Speaker C: For sure, for sure. But I think, you know, when we then think about the opportunity, I had this idea, this vision that we could significantly Part of, part of the challenge. So I'll go back a little bit. Part of the challenge of being within the organization and then becoming the CEO is that, uh, I had huge amounts of respect for my predecessor. He's a huge mentor of mine to this day and, you know, I love him to pieces. But part of the question as you become take over the CEO role and you have people who used to report and be peers of yours now report into you, is what is it that you're doing differently in the CEO role than your predecessor? What is your vision? What is your leadership style? What are all of these things? And I think that was a, that's a challenge ultimately to think about. Okay, how am I going to differentiate myself from what came. Because I don't think that Vista, ah, and the other sponsors had asked me to become the CEO because they just wanted to continue the, the prior history. Right. It was, what is that we can do that is going to be fresh and interesting and, you know, expand the trajectory even and um, accelerate growth. And I think those are all pieces where, when you think about, okay, my role is not, you know, as a mentee at this point, my role is to take over this organization and put my own stamp on it. That then, you know, puts, ah, a lot of importance on then where you're setting the vision and not everybody is going to stay along for that ride. And you have to understand that, you know, you can't be liked by everybody. And it's not just about liking you or not liking you. There is this concept of everybody has their own perspective and their own ambition as well, and you need to appreciate that. So making sure that then you've got the right table there for you to be able to get to that next level of growth is incredibly important for you. Um, so I would definitely encourage anyone who is in this kind of a situation to say, like, okay, I sat on this table. This was my executive team alongside the CEO. Now I am the CEO. Is this the right team for me? So I had never been a cfo. As an example, my predecessor Jean, uh, Marc was a CFO who then became the CEO. So kind of I recognize that there are these gaps that you needed to fill in. And so making sure that you have the right people at the table who are supporting you and who are all going in the same direction, who are aligned is so, so important coming to that role. And so now I forget if I actually answered your question, but you'll continue.

Speaker B: No, you did. Yeah. And it's, um, I guess it wasn't for you just about taking on a CEO role in a private equity setting. You joined the business and then you were promoted into the CEO role. CEO role. So just interesting to hear what, you know, what led you to comply in the first place, and then your journey towards becoming the CEO. And then when you did get into the CEO seat, um, really smart way of thinking and looking at it. You know, if I got the right table, there are skills gaps because, you know, um, Jean Marc was a CFO before he stepped into the CEO role, and, you know, you were not. So that's perhaps something that was a little bit more of a gap with you stepping into that seat and also whether people, you know, you're going from being peers, um, with everybody who now reports into you. And is it right for those people to then continue on the next journey with you as the leader or, you know, do they want to move on because they've got their own ambitions and perspectives and, you know, you end up bringing somebody else in. So there's so much more than just looking at the skills and have you got the right skills? It's the chemistry, it's the skills, and it's the, you know, is it the right. Is it the right person? So what advice would you give to other women stepping into CEO roles in a PE environment?

Speaker C: It's such a tough question. I guess it depends on the person and their particular situation. But I think that the same things apply, right? One is alignment. Do they have alignment with their investors or the private equity backers? And do they understand the value creation plan that was the basis for the investment thesis? If you don't know some of these things a little, then you're a little bit kind of mucking around in the dark and so uncovering all of that information, um, and truly understanding the value creation plan that the investors have and what their expectations are, and matching that to, or changing them, changing their view based on what your vision is going to be, you know, but there has to be alignment, there has to be communication, and you have to establish trust very quickly with your board in order to move forward. Because as we know, in a private equity environment, there's never enough time.

Speaker B: Yes, never enough time.

Speaker C: Ever enough time. And every quarter counts. So that's number one. Number two is that I would really think about their own team and, and whether or not the team that got them there is one to get them there to this next level. And what is it that they need to do to then, um, enhance or expand their team if they can and are we being bold enough?

Speaker B: Yeah. Are, uh, we being bold enough? Yep. Good advice.

Speaker C: And I would say that a lot of it also is not just on them. At the point in which you're the CEO, you do work through a lot of other people, you know, and as we think about then, you know, at the, at the. When I left Comply, we were very much headed towards being. Undergoing our AR company, you know, just. And we were multinational, had Almost, you know, 350 people within the organization. Uh, you can't do everything yourself. You're working through other people. And so ensuring that they. You're putting in place, the systems you're putting in place, the right feedback mechanisms and cadences within your organization to ensure that then you're able to execute on this grand vision that you have is super important. So all of those things that working on the business versus working in the business, how is it that you make that transition is so important as you come into this role? And it's very easy to just be in the business.

Speaker B: Brilliant advice. Thank you so much for sharing. Um, Amy and I think that'll be super helpful for, you know, many of our members and, and our listeners. Before we wrap up, I'd love to step back and ask about some of the experiences that shaped you early on. You know, hearing everything you've accomplished professionally, it's. It's clear you bring a strong sense of purpose and drive to your work, and I'm curious to hear where that comes from. You've spoken in the past about growing up with a mother who was a hairstylist and a father who juggled multiple jobs. How has that shaped your ambition and approach to leadership?

Speaker C: Well, I think, you know, you've done your research, first of all, so good goes to you and the team. But you're right, I think that, you know, there are many ways in which it was not written in the stars that I would become a CEO or board member. And I didn't have a lot of examples of that growing up. It's not something that I knew about. It wasn't part of my ecosystem. But I had this natural drive, and I ended up finding people who would turn out to be pivotal in my career to change the trajectory of my life. Back to when I was in high, um, school, and someone, a woman, came to me and said, you should apply to Harvard. I don't know if she really knew anything about me, to be honest, but she said those words, and I was like, okay, I'm going to go apply to Harvard. And I did. And then I ended up getting in and look at what happened while I was at Harvard. Then somebody said, you know, I think that you should do this summer internship for investment banking SEO, which still exists today. It's like an incredibly successful program. And I was like, okay, let's go do it. Let's go after it, and let's think about how to take that challenge on. And so when I think about how my background led me here, part of it was everything was new, and I just had to learn. I had to learn on the job. I had to continue to be open to learning, um, because I didn't have those examples. And so in some ways, I had to be fearless. And in many ways, I had the incredible opportunity to work with people who allowed me to shape my own, you know, career. Like, my job descriptions. So, you know, we talk about me moving from Los Angeles to New York. When I. When I worked for David, he was like, so can you write your own job description? I was like, how do I look at this as an opportunity? Because I was like, oh, uh, this sounds terrible. But then I was like, oh, I get to, like, talk about what is that I want to do. That's awesome. So I have this combination of product and business development, both of which are, you know, product, which I found was more creative and, you know, to create things and products and work with clients, and then business development, which satisfied the transaction nature that I really loved, like, closing a deal and doing all these other things. And so I think always thinking about, how can you make the most out of that opportunity to take on those experiences is a big part of it. And now my parents, like, I can't have more gratitude for their sacrifice and how much they did to put me through college. And my dad worked three jobs. If I went back to college today, I would have gone, I would go for free. But I think they just had this incredible desire and knowledge that education would be so valuable to me. And then, um, were just hugely supportive. I mean, they had never heard of investment banking before I did investment banking. And they probably still didn't know exactly what it is that I did every day. But I think that it, you know, kind of all of those different pieces that allowed me to say, okay, what is next? What is next? And I think what people. What I see in kids today is that they get very caught up in the end M game, as opposed to making the most of what they're doing right now. And it was not a straight shot to become a CEO or to become a board director. You kind of lead this Meandering path. And as you accumulate those experiences, that is what makes you incredibly good at your job when you become the CEO. Because you didn't sit out saying, I wanted to be the CEO of a compliance organization or I wanted to be the board member to these kinds of organizations. I knew I had that general path, but in the meantime I wanted to generate experiences.

Speaker B: Yeah. Wonderful to listen to that personal backstory. Amy, thank you so much for sharing that. I think it's really inspirational, you know, from that person that believed in you, that lady that believed in you and said, you know, apply to Harvard. And you say, well, I don't even know if she really knew much about me, but she said it. And actually it's what m. You know, it's just a simple thing, right, that she. If you, I don't know if you still know her today, but you know, she said those words and that, uh, had such a big influence on you actually deciding to make an application. If she never said those words, maybe you would never have done it.

Speaker C: Uh, yeah, I'm pretty convinced I never would have. It's really mind blowing. It is also a reminder for us who are in positions as we are to then just say the words out loud. Because they can be so influential to other people. They can kind of open the aperture, create the unlock, do the things for young people, young adults, kids who maybe have never seen an example, you know, it's very hard to be what you can't see. But creating that unlock for them can be pivotal to their future. And that's really important. One of the things that I wanted to just go back to really quickly about being a CEO, by the way, and, um, what I would give advice to other women. Sorry about that. But I did want to make sure one thing that I always reminded myself as the, as a, as a woman CEO, and thinking about other spaces where, you know, it's a little bit uncomfortable, you're the only woman in the room, or you're one of, uh, very few women in the room. All of these other things. Part of it is the results speak for themselves in a private equity context. Yes, you want to get a line along with people. Yes, you want to be aligned. Know they don't need to be your best friend. And even if they are, that's not going to save you if you don't have the results. So driving the results and being serious about them and knowing that the results speak for themselves is important. And most of the women who get to these positions are kick ass women. So drive the Business, have faith in yourself because, you know, I think we can't help but lead as we are. You know, I couldn't help but be me, uh, and I happen to be a short Asian woman. You know, I don't know how I got myself into this, but we ended up like having music. And so I also had to become a dj. Um, we had to have music at every board meeting. That's like a whole other story. But at the end of the day, you know, kind of that fades into the background because it's a serious business and private equity is in this for ROI to their investments. And let's not forget that. And so when you think about delivering, over delivering, you know, it gives you a lot of leeway to be authentic in your own way.

Speaker B: That's really important point. Um, I'm glad you came back to that. Thank you. It's so true, right? It's the results that matter. So that, that kind of brings us to the end, um, of the podcast. But just one, uh, one last thing. Are you ready for a Quick Fire round?

Speaker C: Let's do Quick fire. Let's do it.

Speaker B: So if you could have dinner, ah, with one woman in business, past or present, who would it be and why?

Speaker C: Okay. I'm a rule breaker, so I don't believe in answering your question. I'm going to answer my own question, which is I would love to meet with all of the self made billionaires, whether it's like a Sarah Blakely, whether it's a Taylor Swift, and to talk to them about their investments. And one of my big passions is to encourage women who are coming into their own wealth to invest and to actively invest and talk about it. Where are they investing, who are they investing? Uh, what funds are they investing in and why? And that's what I would talk to them about because we need to hear more about that.

Speaker B: Sounds like a great book that you can, that you can start one decision you made in your career that felt risky at the time but paid off. We've already heard quite a few of those actually on this podcast. Yeah.

Speaker C: Um, so one was obviously Roko Labs, but two was deciding to leave Comply. I decided to leave Comply as I. My dad was not ill, but he was what I would call the last man standing amongst my husband's parents. And my parents and I would often go visit him in Los Angeles and I just noticed that he was slowing down and uh, I don't know what came over me but like the, you know, like all the bits and bites came together where I was like, no, there's, uh, more to do at Comply, but he is the most important thing. Like, we need to go fill his bucket list items and to spend time with him, whatever time we have left. And the next day, I flew to Los Angeles to talk to my investors and let them know what my decision was and why. And I had this really deep, just faith that this was the right decision, but I didn't know why, because it wasn't like my dad was sick at the time, but at the time in which we were doing the succession to. To Michael Stanton, the new CEO Comply. My dad then got sick, and it was like, you know, I was so happy that I had made the decision previously because it gave me the space and time to wholly focus on my dad and his health and just being present and being there for him. And, you know, I didn't know when I made the decision that that's exactly how it was gonna work out, but I am so thankful that I made that decision.

Speaker B: Yeah, I've gone cold now. It's, um. I mean, I remember that you and I were talking, I think, well over a year ago, and, you know, you told me that your dad was sick and you were focusing on him. And I think that's such an amazing thing that you could have, you know, been able to give yourself that time, you know, with your father. So thank you for sharing that. It's obviously very personal.

Speaker C: I realize I'm so lucky to have been in the position that I could do that. You know, again, you have to work hard to be lucky. And so I did both. But as we said before, you know, my dad worked three jobs to get me through college. Like, I owe him such a debt of gratitude, and he is just, like, the most adorable man that you would have ever met. And, um, you know, I think I don't regret one. One bit of it.

Speaker B: Sounds like an amazing dad, and you're an amazing daughter. Something unexpected or quirky that your team would say about working with you.

Speaker C: So for being such an avid soul cycle, uh, enthusiast, I don't know how to ride a bike. That would be one thing. Um, and then I think that the other piece is really, um. If I used to be a little bit more serious, is that, like, I take business very seriously. And kind of, I think you can tell here it's like, between the banter, there is this, like, I get locked in. We get things done. We prioritize. We need to kind of move the business forward. And I have this, like, pretty incredible drive, driving force nature. Um, but at the same time I think they would say that there is a nurturing side, empathetic and this kind of warm side. And that is the uniqueness, I think also of many women and many women leaders. And it is that balancing act of, you know, pushing and making sure that we are driving forward to our uh, growth plans and the value creation plan at the same time as nurturing the organization which makes women hugely powerful in C level goals.

Speaker B: Thank you. Something you do regularly. And you did touch on this earlier and I refrained from asking you what, you know, what it was because I knew this question would come up. Something that you do regularly that helps you stay focused or clear headed, especially when things are moving fast.

Speaker C: So I would say taking a uh, timeout. And so there have been different strategies over time. So there was a time when I was doing Soul Cycle three to five times a week. It was literally the one hour a day that I didn't think about work. And then I also had impromptu karaoke because, you know, it's dark and they play music.

Speaker B: So final one, final question. Uh, best advice you've ever been given and do you still follow it?

Speaker C: Okay, so this is not a, ah, PG version. But um, there was somebody who told me congratulations, you know, I'd gotten like a promotion or whatever. Have you or gotten into a program. And they were like, congratulations, now just don't fuck it up. And I was like, oh, that hurt. Why, why would you say that to me? But it was this reality check, right, of we aspire to these levels, like, oh, if I just was the CEO, if I just was the blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, if I just got this other thing, then I could do all of these. Like, it would be amazing. And it's really not that it's like, yes, you did all of these things in order to ascend into this position, but it is what is that comes after, right? You uh, have to continue to think about what comes after because it's not just about you. It's also then about everybody else on the team as the CEO. When you come into that job, that day that you got announced to be the CEO is wonderful. But then everybody's like, okay, but then what's in it for me? Or how is, where are we going now? And so you have these responsibilities and I think that that thinking about that over and over and over again many years later, um, is something which is a good reality check. It's a good gut check because you know, you can be so full of yourself and like, oh, uh, I got to be. To do this, to do that, whatever it is. But it is still, like, don't screw it up. You now have this.

Speaker B: Gotta do it. You. You. You've got the title, and now you. You've actually got to do it. Right. Yeah.

Speaker C: Or you've got this position, and what are you gonna do with it? You know, it's like this. You know, I'm. I think that you're. What you're doing is incredible with this podcast, which is, you know, we have this position, we have these opportunities, and how can we inspire more women to do all these things? It's part of. It's part of what's necessary as you come into the role.

Speaker B: Yeah. I really admire you, Amy, because I know, um, you must have thought really deeply about, you know, how you pay your experience forward, because I know you do a lot to help and inspire other other women. And thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Um, glad we finally managed to do it. And, uh, it's been really genuinely inspiring to listen to your story. Thank you so much.

Speaker C: Well, thank you so much for having me on again. And hopefully, if this changes the life of even one person, everything would have been worth it. So thank you so much.

Speaker A: Thank you. Felicity. Listening to this episode of Shesass Unplugged. I hope it inspired you in your personal journey. If you enjoyed listening, please subscribe and share this episode with others. You can find out more about Shesas at, uh, our website, shesas.org. you can also find us on LinkedIn.