Episode 331: Your Leadership Legacy is Your People

Hey, thanks for checking out the Sales Leadership Podcast. I'm your host, Rob Jepsen, and have a great one today. So timely one. That's going to be a difference maker for you as you kick through quarter one of this year and accelerate into quarter two. But first, kickoff season's wrapping up and the real challenge is just beginning. Kickoffs create energy, but leadership. It's all about execution. I'm doing nearly 20 SKOs this season. the end of every one, the team's fired up and ready to go. And the leaders come to me and say something along the lines of, now we've got to get out there and make it happen. And that's exactly why market leaders in dozens of industries choose to partner with the Jepsen Performance Group. Because execution isn't something you hope for, it's something that you must be intentional about and design. And today's conversation makes that painfully clear. Today we're going to talk about what might be the most important thing we have to get right as a leader. It's how we develop people. I'm excited to introduce William Davis to the show today and how and learn how he helps teams do something that he's done for decades. Create an environment where people just don't want to leave at a time where turnover seems out of control. Listen. Today's episode is an important one because as the pressure to perform continues to get higher, some leaders turn to pressure instead of personalized precision. And today's guest literally wrote the book on how to create an environment where people don't want to leave. Because the leadership they receive is such a massive game changer. You're going to get some insights you'll be able to use immediately as you shift gears and make sure your team stays fully aligned as you power through this first quarter. And do it without making the members of your team feel like a means to your business end. So, you ready? Let's freaking go. Hi, I'm Rob Jepsen and my mission is to help sales leaders everywhere create record setting growth from the companies they lead. I'm here to share the secrets of the world's most successful sales leaders. I don't care how big the company or how big the team. We showcase sales leaders who are taking what the market gives and then some. This show features leaders of teams who are beating their markets, winning at crazy rates, and creating life changing years for the people they lead. The Sales Leadership podcast is brought to you by Sales Leadership United, the world's largest collection of sales leadership assets. Be sure to check out the all new sales leadershipunited.com fast track your sales leadership development. Gain insights into how other sales leaders are solving challenges similar to the ones you face and tap into over 400 leadership topics, hundreds of video insights, battle tested leadership frameworks and new material that comes out every single week. Sales Leadership United is the easiest investment in yourself you'll ever make. Head to sales leadership united.com use the code rob at signup and get a free trial on me. Now get ready for some serious insights from sales leaders who are making it happen. And remember, don't worry, we got you. Hello and welcome to the Sales Leadership Podcast where high growth sales leaders share high growth practices and tactics. It has been an incredible year and I hope you are off to a start of an even better year and one of the favorite things that happens to me all day, every day of every week I get at least one message from a listener sharing their story with me about how the show has been helpful in their leadership journey. It fires me up, it pumps me up, it makes me grateful and it's why I do the show. I am so glad to hear from so many of you on how helpful the guests of this show are to you and your career. So please keep them coming. I love it. It's why I do it. Today we got another great one for you. We have a really important guest and a conversation that I can't wait to have. Please welcome William Davis to the show. William has spent the last 40 years working with managers, helping them move from having influence only because they have authority to become some, becoming something totally different, becoming powerful leaders who have influence and as a result earn loyalty. And William isn't someone who just preach his latest hypothesis as so many do. He is an active practitioner who has earned a 90% retention rate with his own team and has maintained it for decades. Today, William joins us as we prepare and have entered into the 2026 year. We're going to discuss how we create an environment where people don't just survive, they thrive and how every single leader can create an environment where people just don't want to leave. Now, William is a highly sought after keynote speaker, the author of a book that you're going to want to check out, how to Lead Without Just Managing and is the founder of his organization, the Leadership Blueprint. He helps organizations create high performing, engaged environments where people perform at levels that don't just create record setting company performance, but instead individuals find happiness and fulfillment in places they never have before. So today's our conversation is an important One. And as you are entering this new year and as you're preparing for your strategy and your plan on how you're going to create the greatest year in company history, I'm excited to share William's frameworks and insights so every one of you can have more influence with your teams than you've ever had as you create an environment that no one wants to leave in your world. So if you can't tell, I'm really excited. So let's get rolling. William, welcome to our show, and thank you so much for joining me today. Rob, thank you very much. I'm going to take you on the road with me. Let's go, man. I'll send you my hourly rate. Let's do it. There you go. There you go. Hey. I'm really excited to have you. Why. Why don't you start? I know our time's going to go really fast. This is a really important conversation. Time always goes fast with the guests on the show. But why don't you start by introducing yourself to 60,000 of your closest leadership friends scattered all around the world and a little bit about who you are and what you do. Well, my name's William Davis. As Rob mentioned, I retired back in may of this 2025 from corporate America after 38 years because I didn't care for the direction of leadership that I was seeing. And so what I wanted to do was I told my wife I wanted to give back the final years that I was planning on working full time to try to help shape leadership back to a standard where people feel like they're a part, that they're important, that people are invested in them. And so I started this organization, and I've written a couple of books, as you've been kind enough to mention, and trying to get my story out. Love it. And. And your focus point is a super important focus point that I can't wait to get into. So you re. You have been in the game for several decades. What was it that made leadership development like something that was so interesting to you, so important to you, something that you wanted to dive into and double down on? Because, like I said, you got 60,000 of them going to be listened to you today. I want to give these listeners just a little bit more of your background on what was it that made you say, there's got to be a better way to look at this? Yeah, I think it was my own experience with negative leadership that I experienced earlier on in my career. People whose opinion was that they were the most important thing as opposed to their people and that what they. What they said went regardless of the reasoning or the purpose. And it's just, you know, you just saw how it beat down people, and you could see very talented individuals who just had the strength and. And desires zapped out of them. Love it. All right, well, let's. Let's just get after it. A lot of times when people start talking about this environment, I have a lot of thoughts around this. I can't wait to kick around with you. I always feel like we gotta act like a gardener in a greenhouse where we can plant any kind of plant and it'll thrive, rather than just make it. That started after my divorce and I became a bachelor again. And I was like, realizing how important having the right lighting was because I kept killing plants in my house over and over and over again. But let's talk about the word that I think is a buzzword. Cult. I hear it all the time. Culture. This culture that I kind of think it might be overused and has entered the status of buzzword, which to me means that we use it so often, nobody really knows what it means, or maybe nobody wants to prioritize it because it's overused. Can you give us your kind of viewpoint on what culture is, why it matters, and maybe kind of a state of the culture world as an expert that's focusing on this right now? Yeah. I would go back to one of the things that I've mentioned in several conversations I've had with people is it goes back to the golden rule. You know, I want to do for you what helps you. I want you to treat me with respect. I'll treat you with respect. I'll. You know, I care about you as I'm invested in you and. And you and me. And I think it's really just this, hey, let's win together. Right? You know? Yeah. There's healthy competition, and we want, you know, we want make sure that people are doing things that help them grow and satisfy, but let's not do it at the expense of other people. And when you build that environment. And I love the way the fact that you say environment is supposed to culture, because I agree with you a thousand percent. You are building a structure where trust and empathy and respect and success is just able to flourish. And it's. It's a situation where too oftentimes we put people at odds against each other. And it's almost like the. The survivor is going to be the. The one who's more ruthless or. Or cutthroat and. And that's just, that's not a way to, to live life and certainly not a way to, to run a business or to have a team. One of the things I think about as I, as I think about this, there's a lot of stuff that's been said about people don't quit companies, they quit leaders. I don't know, I don't know a lot of the data around. I've heard that a lot. I see some of that anecdotally, I'm guessing I know that like Ernst and Young and Deloitte have done a lot of studies on loyalty right now. I know Reichelt has done his book called the Loyalty Effect. Do you have any kind of sense on what the state of loyalty is in terms of environments people don't want to leave? Do you have any sense of like turnover rates or. I know you and I, in preparation for this conversation, we talked about the fact that we both agree that there's a leadership crisis out there right now. Any thoughts around, like, what you're seeing? I think it would be really helpful for our listeners to get a sense of the lay of the land right now from someone who might have blinders off because sometimes when you're in your own company, all you see is what's in front of you. Right. I think a study that was done in 2023 by U.S. news World Report, Harris Poll, where they said 78% of individuals who were asked felt like that there was a leadership crisis in corporate America and 86% felt like there was leadership crisis in society as a whole. So I think when you have those type of statistics and particularly with the business environment that we have today, it's much easier for people to just say, you know what, I don't have to put up with this and I'm going to go somewhere else. I've worked three places in 40 years and I see a lot of people who work three places in six months. You know, and I think it's because of the fact that they can't get invested, they don't feel like they're important. And you know, when we talk about, you know, the turnover rate, there are some industries that are 50 plus percent. Wow. And you know that that's just insane because, you know, America's corporations do funny things with their bookkeeping. Right. And what we don't take into account is the cost of replacing people that leave because one, you're never going to get them for the salary you're paying them. Right. You're never going to get replacement for the Same salary. And then you're going to lose productivity. You're going to lose all sorts of, you know, incidental statistics in training them and getting them to be a part of the culture and so forth. So, you know, the. The ability to move from. From job to job to job is so easy these days. And people do not have the patience, I would say, to work through challenges that they face. And again, I go back to this is, you know, part of the foundation for being a leader is to help people get through good times, bad times, and come out on the other side in a good place. All right, well, then let's get into this. One of the things that you said to me that really spoke to me, I like it when people can say, like, I practice what I preach or I eat my own dog food or I drink my own wine or whatever. The analogy you want to have is right. Yeah. You yourself, as a leader for decades have had a 90% or higher retention rate of members of your team. And I think in sales, because this is the sales leadership podcast, we're about revenue teams. We're talking about sometimes it's, you know, BDR teams, and sometimes it's sales teams, and sometimes it's retention teams. But if you have re. If you have turnover, you have loss of relationship with their existing customers, but you also have empty territories, and empty territories are really challenging for a sales leader because you never get quota relief. Just because I'm missing a salesperson or two doesn't mean they're going to ratchet down my. My quota. And so I. I never get relief if I have turnover. So, I mean, that's something that I hear as a performance coach all the time. Oh, I still have two more spots to fill before I can be fully loaded. And when I'm missing a couple of heads, what happens is I got to have everybody else do even more in order for that team to do well. So I think that turnover and retention in sales is felt in. In a different way. I'm not saying a more important way, but it's certainly in a. In a way that's felt differently. So as you create an environment that people don't want to leave, what are some of the elements that creates that kind of an environment? First thing I've always looked for is if somebody wants to be a leader or desires to be a leader, they. I have to make sure that they really, truly want to be a leader for the right reason. It can't be title. It can't be the power, perceived power. It can't be the additional money. It's got to be because they want to develop people, they want to invest in people and, and help them succeed. And so in doing that, I ensure that people understand they can trust me. I'm not going to look to sabotage them. I'm not looking to question everything that they do. And, and I've got several stories. We can talk about it if we have time. And the ability for them to move forward with a career and, and not have to look over their shoulder all the time becomes much easier for them when they understand that the relationship I have with them is genuine. Right. And if, if they can feel that way, they, then they're a lot more apt to give the company much more energy, you know, much more work, you know, even, you know, in times that you have to work extra extra, whereas if they don't have that trust in you as their leader, then they're not. The investment they're going to put in is going to be limited again because it's, you know, why, why should I knock myself out for somebody who's just going to around and sabotage me? So how prevalent is that sabotage thing, do you think? Is that, is that like becoming more and more of a reality? I, I know I've experienced it a number of times in my career and I've seen it, you know, particularly in the last 10 years. I, I think it's because of the fact that we are so focused on numbers, right. And making sure, you know, perfect example. You know, it used to be that if you did your job, you were guaranteed that you were going to get the raise that you deserved and, and if applicable, you were going to get the bonus you deserved. Right? Now we have moved to this stacked ranking system in so much of corporate America where we com, you know, we put pit people against each other and it's like, well, you're going to get 110% of your perceived bonus and, and you're going to get 70. Right. You know, come on, folks are knocking themselves out to do the job, right? I've, I've yet to find anybody who intentionally screws up work they do or intentionally slacks off, right? To not to not meet the expectation of themselves. But we, we put them in a position of you're not going to know until the end of the year how I perceive you. And so you, you start then getting this, I've got to look better than everybody else. And in order to do that I may have to, you know, undercut them or I may have to not give them all the information that they need in order for them to succeed and then jump in and make myself look well. So, yeah, that is unfortunately a byproduct, I think, of the environment that we have created in corporate America. And that has not allowed people to gel, has not allowed people to thrive, and it puts them in a position where they're untrusting of the leadership. So is that a clarity issue, then? Like creating clarity on where I stand, creating clarity on what's expected. Creating clarity on what, you know, what I can expect if I do what's expected. It feels like that's what you're talking about is creating an environment that people want to be in. Part of that is, do we have, like, crystal clarity? Yeah, I think so, Rob, because I think so much of what we do is so focused on the tasks that we fail to work with our people to help them understand, you know, here's how we perceive success. Right. Here's how we perceive growth in. In you. And so the communication, you know, we talk about one on ones. I. I hate that concept. Because if I, as a leader, am invested in my people, I should be having communication with my people constantly. Right. Not from the perspective of micromanaging them or looking over their shoulder, but just say, you know, hey, how's it going? Anything I can do for you? Anything you need help with. Right. Because people perceive that if I ask for help, it's a sign of weakness. And no, asking for help, reaching out and saying, hey, can you assist me? Here is a. To me is a great sign of strength because you understand your lack of ability or your lack of knowledge. And so you're looking to grow, you're looking to succeed. You're looking to make sure that everything that you do is at the top tier of what you can provide or produce. And with this stacked ranking and stuff like that, you put people in a position where they feel like if they reach out for help, if they look to others to, you know, assist them, it's a sign of weakness, and it's a sign that they're not up to the task, and that's just simply not the case. Yeah, and I can see why that's a big deal. So if part of your environment is asking for help, asking for clarity, asking for collaboration is a sign of weakness. Yeah, I could see why people wouldn't want to stay in that. Because. And so what. What does a leader do to help eliminate that? So I'm taking down notes. The first one is, why do you want to be a leader? Then I called it clarity. And you called it communication. Maybe that's a better one. But I'm really interested in how do you create that trusting environment? Is that what it is? Is it trust? Like, what is it? What is the thing you're talking about there? If we wanted to put a label on it? Well, let me back up, because I think you're right. It's clarity in communication, right? I mean, there's communication, but if you don't have clarity in that communication, it's worthless. Right? So I think you're. I think you're dead on there. How I always structured my teams was, you know, obviously, I have a good. I feel like I have a good instinct for people, and I can get an indication of, you know, are they somebody that's going to mesh with the team that I've got? And if so, you know, I can work with them and, you know, build it in such a way where everything is very smooth and works well. The way you do that, though, is when I looked at people, I wanted to see them outside the work environment, with friends, with family, to see how they treat them. Because the people that are the closest to them in the world, if they don't treat them with a sense of respect, caring, you know, genuine worry about them as a person, I don't want them on my team because they're not going to treat people that they're not close to, especially initially, with any kind of genuineness, right? So I don't. I don't want that brought on my team. So I. I made sure I understood how they treated friends, how they treated family, and it had to be respectful. Then I met with them not in an office, not in a conference room, but I met them in an arena where they were comfortable. And I'll give you an example. I had a young man that I hired very young. He was 23, 24, 25. And he was great. Smart, funny, wonderful personality. But he was constantly nervous, always worried about getting fired. And so I just finally said to him, I said, by itself is an interesting conversation. That is. That is. And I just asked him, I said, you know, so what do you like to do outside the office? He said, I like to golf. And I said, okay, it's 30 years ago. I still golfed at the time. So I said, tomorrow, you and I are going to go golfing, and we're, you know, just gonna have some fun. And so we got out there and he was driving and he was all nervous. Freddie, he was going to wreck the cart. And about the fourth hole, I Hit a tee shot that was just absolutely horrific. And I could tell in the background he was just standing there like, okay, how is he going to react? Is he going to go off his rocker and scream and yell and break his club and throw stuff or you know, what's he going to do? So I just turned to him and said, I want you to know I did that intentionally so you feel better about your golf game. And he just started cracking up. And that, that totally took the curtain down between us to where he understood that, you know what, this guy is serious, he's business oriented. But you know what, he wants to have fun in life. He wants to spend time with his people and understand what's important to them, what makes them tick. And I did that individually with every person that ever worked for me because there is no one size fits all right in, in doing that. I had a young lady that liked to take walks, so I did walks with her. Some people just like to go and get coffee, so I did coffee with them. So I tried to meet people on, in an arena which was comfortable to them to get to know them. Right. So I really like that you're doing that. I, I just interrupted you, I apologize. No, no, that's what you're saying. But I wanna, I, I have a thought here that I want to dive into with you. I can't wait to see. So finish where you're going. Forgive me for interrupting you. I apologize. No, no, no, no, that's, that's. And so I just wanted to do that because to me that was really an investment by me into them. And they understood that this was not just a relationship of. I consider them an asset or you know, a work product or whatever. But I was really invested in them individually, genuinely. So one of the things that I learned early in my leadership career, I was fortunate to have a mentor who was a expert like you and this leadership development stuff. And he worked on a project that I've never forgotten where they did. It was a research study. Mostly it started in call centers and it scattered other places where they call it the balance framework. And they look at it as a scale on one side. There are stress factors. Every job has stress factors. Like in sales, it's quota or it's customers or it's maybe the people you work with internally and, or maybe regulatory. There's all kinds of stress factors and you cannot get rid of them. You can reduce some, but you cannot create a stress free environment. It's impossible to do. That's why we call it work and not play. Okay. And that speaks to me. And so we could get into a room with a bunch of leaders with whiteboards on every wall, and probably in 10 minutes, we could fill up every wall with all the potential stress factors involved. Right. Really fast, really easily. So too many times we say, how do I take stress off that scale? So that scale is coming down here, and you really can. Can't re. Eliminate it. You might reduce it, but you can't eliminate it again because it's a job. It's not play. So the game became what's the counterbalance? And what he found in his research was it's passion factors. And so the game should be, yeah, don't have any more stress factors on there than you need to have. But then how do you add passion factors to the other side? And if you can balance it. The project was called Balanced Framework. And one of the things that was the heaviest passion factor is exactly what you talked about. A boss who gets me, a leader who knows me. And it was very interesting as they measured the impact of these passion factors that were related to the impact from leadership. Do they know me? And so when I was running one of my other companies, early on, when we would hire people, my team would hire for qualifications and fit. But what I would always want to do as a CEO is I wanted to meet them to learn one thing. What. What fires you up outside of work? Because I found if. No, if there was nothing that got your motor running outside of work. The work we did required passion. And if you didn't have passion outside of work, there was no chance you'd have it inside of work. And so I love how you said some people wanted walk, some people want to golf. Like, I would met people that would tell me about their dogs or they would tell me about their hikes or once you know that you have a cheat code now is what I bet you. And so I love that you went there. So I. Sorry that I, like, rambled a little bit, but I wanted you to see the framework on that. Yeah. What are your thoughts about that balancing of the scales? Does that resonate? Does that line up with what you've seen? Oh, absolutely, absolutely. I mean, again, the. The ability for somebody to tie into their passion, you know, is so important in them functioning as a human being. Right. And again, everybody has good days, everybody has bad days. And my responsibility as a leader is to help them get through whatever situation they are going through without harming themselves on the backside. Right. And so if I know somebody as you, as you Were talking about, I know how to do that, I know how to help get them through that. Right. And the answer may be as little or as simple as, hey, work from home, work from home for a little while. You don't need the distractions, the office, you don't need the worries going along with the day to day commute, whatever. Or, you know, heaven forbid, let's tell them to take a few days off or take some time off to, you know, recharge, re. Energize. And so if, if you know the passion or what drives the passion of the person, you know exactly how to help them navigate the, the, you know, peaks and valleys of life, the peaks and valleys of their career. And they appreciate that because to your point, they understand. You get me, you're invested in me. You care that I succeed not just in my work, but as a human being. You care about the whole person, you bet you. Not just the business person, you bet your sales person. Is that what I'm hearing you say? Absolutely. And things I, I always made sure that I did was, you know, we spent time as a team outside of the office together because what I wanted people to see was, you know, you get a perception of somebody in one way in the office, but when you get them out in a social setting, then you really understand they're, they're a person too. They have family issues, they have personal issues, they have financial issues. They, you know, anything under the sun that you experience, they experience too. And it helps humanize the relationship to where you're not so quick to judge people, you're not so quick to speak disrespectfully to them or, you know, any of the negative stuff that we could talk about. And so it was important to make sure they understood that we respect each other. We are all human. We all have desires, we all have problems. I'll have challenges. We need to get through it together. Love it. One more thing on this before we shift out of it, because I considered this for the whole time, but we've only got about 15 minutes left. Yeah, I would imagine sometimes you derive those or you observe those passion factors and sometimes you ask. But you must have to have some kind of a trusted relationship to have the conversation because otherwise it might come across as weird. It's like, hey, William, what is it you're passionate about? Hey, William, what is it that, like, you really care about? Like, it might be, hey, you know, that's a different world for me. Any, any thoughts about how you discover those things? Yeah, and I always did it, you know, initially in a group setting. Right. And, and you know, we could just all talk about it and I, I'd be the one to start I' something, you know, wild out and get people's reaction, gauge the reaction of, you know, like I, I used to, you know, ride horses because I grew up on a farm and people look at me like you did. Really, you know, and, and, and so then other people would start talking about things. So you, you have to make sure that people are understanding that you're willing to share, you're willing to be vulnerable, you're willing to be humble, you're humility. And, and when they see that you're willing to do that, they're willing to do it. You know, maybe not to the degree that you do, but, but at least it's a starting point. Right? And, and I think that's the, the real critical piece is, you know, building that relationship. Gaining that trust is not just going to happen all in one giant step. It's a process. It's a process. So you have to be consistent. You have to make sure that you are being the same way tomorrow that you were today. Right. Can't be fake. Your genuineness has to be real. And so I want to make sure that. Oh yeah, and I was just gonna say, and you have to be consistent with everybody. I hated it when managers or leaders showed favoritism to folks because. Yeah, that's fine. You may be closer to some people, you may have more respect for some. You may feel like some people are better workers, but that doesn't mean that you're allowed to treat the other folks in a less respectful or serious manner or treat them in a less genuine manner. I think that that's really important, that consistency. We could probably spend the rest of our time just talking about that because I know that's a, that's a huge driver. So we've got a few letter C's on there now. We have this clarity in communications. I like how you did that. We have this consistency on, on here. I don't have a good C on this. Passion factors what they can. No, here it is what they care about. That's what the CSV care about. Okay. Yeah. So that's another. So you know what they care about. I have a question that I want to get to that you've fired for me, but I want to make sure we get through anything else in your model or in your framework. Are there other things that go into creating this 90 plus retention rate before I, I start asking other Questions? Because I want to make sure we, we get your meat and potatoes right. Yeah, I, I would just say that everything has to be genuine, right? Nothing, nothing can be fake. Because when the first time that you're perceived as fake or insincere, any work that you've done up to that point is lost, any ability that you have to now regain the trust and confidence and of not just that person, but now your team and even others that you might work with in years in the future is going to be really severely damaged. So again, how do you show up as fake? Like, how does that present itself? Like, I would be willing to Bet that all 60,000 of my listeners right now are going, yeah, I would never be fake. But I would bet you that a lot of people in sales specifically feel like a means to an end rather than an end in and of itself. Or do you think I'm, or my hearing your wrong? Well, no, no, I, I think, you know, one of the ways that you, you're fake is, let's just go back to the clarity and communication. How many times have you been talking to somebody and you're, you know, you're passionate about what you're telling them, you're passionate about what you're trying to communicate to them and their eyes are darting all over the place, or they're looking at their phone or they're tapping their fingers or something like that. That, to me as the, the person that that is communicating to that person is this person doesn't give two rips about what I'm saying. Right. Okay. They don't, they don't care. They don't care. So I, I always tell people, you may think what is important to me and, and what is really causing me a crisis, if you will, in my life is stupid, silly. I don't understand why it's important to you. But you as a leader have to understand it is important to them. Right. And you have to treat it as important to them. It doesn't have to be important to you, it has to be you. Has to be important to you because it's important to them. And you have to treat it in such a fashion, you know, I can't, you know, somebody's saying, oh gosh, you know, I got to buy tires or just something, any, any example you want to throw out. And, and I, and I say, oh, that's, that's no big deal, I've got. And then you start expounding on an issue that you have. Right. Look, they came to you, they're communicating with you. Focus on them, listen to them. Be aware of what is and why it is important to them. I like it. I like this showing that I get you. Not saying, I got you, I got you as transactional. That's like, yeah, you're at the drive through. Oh, you want help with this deal? I got you. Oh, you want fries with that burger I got you. You want to make it a large size drink? I got you. And so it's easy for leaders to say, I got you when people ask, but I get you means you understand them, you know them, you can be proactive with them. And I gotta think that that's a massive promotion in the relationship scale. Oh, oh, absolutely. And, and you know, again, the days of sitting in your office or only communicating with your people when they come to you is, it doesn't work. The thing I loved to do when I was in the office is I love to walk around to the different folks and just kind of, you know, see what was going on, listen to the communication between them. Right. And I didn't have to solve everything, but I had to make sure I understood what was, you know, happening in, in my, you know, world of leadership. Right. And, and then react accordingly. And, and again, it's, it's, you know, first thing that you have to understand is even if it's a crisis, you cannot overreact. When you overreact, you lose credibility, you lose your team because they now are responding to not the situation, but they're responding to your response. And you can't do that. Everything's fixable. Everything's fixable. So I really, really like what you're saying, and I wish we had more time because I think we've only talked about half of the equation. Half the equation is trust. Elite leaders have an abundance of trust, and that creates an environment where people want to stay. I think the other half is you got to be able to get results because I can trust my leader till the cows come home. But if I can't win, if I can't find, make money, if I can't find fulfillment, then I, I can't win. I think you got to have trust and you got to have results you can't have. If you have trust, no results, you're going to lose your team. If you have results but no trust, you're going to lose your team. Right? Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, and I think also, Rob, to, to that point is you have to live in reality, right? So let's just go back five years when we had the pandemic. You know, from a sales perspective, you know, the numbers that are set out at the first of the year when the pandemic hit, those things have to be understood that there's going to be fluctuation now. Right. Because, you know, your ability to be, you know, one on one with clients or, you know what, whatever is important to fulfilling that relationship that you have with your client is now inhibited. Okay. But I saw so many situations where the, the bottom line was still held at such a stringent position that it was not reasonable to be hit because of the, because of the situation. So as a leader, I had to understand the, the changing factors that were going on and, and then adjust accordingly and, and let people know. Not, you know, no, I'm not going to give you the say so that you can just slack off the rest of the year. But I understand that there are mitigating factors here that, you know, we're going to have to deal with and we're going to talk about. We'll, you know, we'll adjust for going forward. And, and so it's again, the understanding the reality that your people are dealing with on a day to day basis and not just setting a, a bar or setting a goal and being so stringent on it that it's, it's attain it or bust. All right, we sadly are out of, out of time and, and I'm going to give you a couple minutes to put like a cherry on top and, and give a couple of nuggets. But how do people get more of you? We have people that will be listening. There's going to be some that may want to get a hold of your book or maybe check out some of your resources or maybe ask you to follow on questions that we didn't get into because I spent so much time on that first half of the equation with you. How do they get more. William Davis? I'm on the, I have a website, williamcdavis.net williamcdavis.net I'm on all these links in the show notes, by the way, so spit them out. But we'll, I just want everybody to know look in the show notes and we'll have them there for everyone. And I'm also on LinkedIn, so you can reach me there. You know, the, the way I would just sum this up is, you know, we, we talk about AI, we talk about, you know, what, what it is going to replace. AI will never replace leadership. It'll never replace genuine leadership because at the end of the day, leadership is and will always be about people and how you, how you help them succeed. And AI can't do that. So, you know, the challenge that we need is to get back to a culture of caring or an environment of caring, an environment of winning together. Right. And, and helping people will fulfill their goals and, and really their full potential. All right, so we have three minutes. Call it. Okay. And we'll have all those links in the show notes. And I'm going to encourage people to check it out. Check you out, get a hold of your book, all that good stuff. If you wanted to have a little William Davis unplugged back in our old MTV days, you know, and you're, you're on the stage on a stool with your guitar or a microphone. What would your message be to 60,000 leaders as they're kicking off the new year as you encourage them to create an environment where people don't just survive it. We want to thrive in 2026, and we want you to create this environment where it's filled with all the things that the members of your team need in order to succeed. Any final thoughts on how they would go about doing that in a way that would, would give them a good nugget and a good. Something they could do as they kick off their year? Yeah, I, I would say with. The first thing is, you know, introspection, right? Look at yourself and, and what you're doing, why you're doing it. And, and you know, be honest about making adjustments, right? There is no weakness. And change. If I'm changing for the better, you know, people say, oh, I can't, I can't do that because it's going to, you know, make me look weak. No, it doesn't make you look weak. It makes you look strong because you understand that there are areas you can, Everybody could grow, even to the point that they, you know, retire or whatever. Because environment, people change constantly. So, you know, just look at yourself inwardly and see where can I make improvements? What do I need to change? I think the other thing again is be genuine in building the relationships with your folks. Do it one at a time. Time. And then do it, you know, as a team. Because everybody's different. Everybody responds to different things. It's no one size fits all. And, and that's okay, you know, that, that's, you know, and, and understand that leadership is the job. Yes, you may be a manager, you may be responsible for tasks, but you know what? At the end of the day, you, as a leader, that's your job, right? And, and you can help, help build People up, help them succeed. And when you do that, understand they're not your competition. If they bypass you on that ladder. Great. Because when you retire, at the end of the day, your legacy is your people, right? Not what you accomplished. It's your people. And I take great pride and the folks that I've had throughout my career and where they're at today, because to me, that says you allowed them to spread their wings, to grow and to reach their potential because you cared. I love it. Well, that was great. That time went by fast. William, thank you so much and congratulations on what you're doing to help organizations build an infrastructure where people have an environment where they feel like they can thrive and they can win and they can do it in a way that they enjoy what they're doing. And I'm glad to be part of something that might be bigger than me. His name is William Davis. He. I love how you finished. He helps people realize that leadership is about people and your legacy is your people. And I 100% agree. There is no weakness in change. And in fact, there's only strength that comes from positive change. So my advice is to check him out, look at what he's got that in his bag of tricks that could help you become that next level leader. William, I wish you nothing but wild success in 2026 and beyond. And on behalf of 60,000 leaders all around the world, thanks for an hour of your time. And we wish you only a fantastic year where you help so many others achieve these great results that you yourself have tapped into. So thank you and good luck. My friend, Rob, I really respect you and the work that you're doing, and I really appreciate you having me on. So thank you very much. You guys have a great year also. Hey, everyone. Welcome to another Silhouette portion of the sales leadership podcast where we break down that interview and we ask ourselves, why did that conversation even matter? But first, kickoff season is wrapping up, and after working with some of the best sales and leadership teams in the world, one thing stands out. The energy has been extraordinary. But here's the truth. Kickoffs are about energy, but leadership, that's about execution. New goals and new obstacles demand new leadership systems. And that's where Jepsen Performance Group comes in. We partner with leaders to help build the clarity, the systems, and the belief that create inflection points. Inflection points in careers, in teams, and ultimately in the performance of businesses. So if you're ready to move from momentum to measurable results, check the show notes, reach out, and let's talk and see if we can be helpful. Now let's get back to this great conversation with William. What a timely discussion as we release this. We're halfway through February, halfway through the calendar year's first quarter, and I get a lot of people that start looking to how Q1 is going to end that everybody's talking to me about right now. This is when I sometimes see Thermometer Leadership vs. Thermostat Leadership start to show up. Let me tell you what I mean by that. Thermometer leadership is just what a thermometer does. Thermometers respond to external circumstances. When it's hot, it rises. When it's cold, it falls. All the thermometer does is measure and respond. Thermostats, they do something totally different. Thermostats don't respond to the temperature. Thermostats set the temperature. They keep it consistent regardless of what's happening all around them. And when I see thermometer leadership pop up, when I see people responding to pressure and becoming a different person. And as things get hotter, they get hotter. Rather than turning to systems that let things kind of be consistent and authentic, that's when I see people start to turn up the pressure. And while I love that famous quote by the tennis player Billie Jean King when she said pressure is a privilege and should be treated as such, I've learned that pressure isn't always the best way to have influence. As a sales leader, we sometimes fall into the trap of treating people like a means to our own end and not focusing on developing these individuals as a person. And that's one of the reasons this conversation with William is so timeless, because he's done everything he talks about. Listen. A 90% retention rate of his employees in a highly volatile environment. That's crazy. It's unheard of. It's a ridiculous competitive advantage, and it's a byproduct of intentional elite leadership. And that's why right now is a great time to look closely at the things we should be thinking of when we look at our role as leaders. He talked about them over and over, over again. Clarity, consistency, authenticity. What the real role is, how we create this environment where people thrive. Dot survive. As I've listened to this and I've gone back and really been reflecting on this conversation with William, I jotted down five things that really stood out to me As I reflected on this conversation that I hope will fuel some reflection when you. Your leadership approach and. And what you choose to value as a leader. So let me go through these pretty quick and hopefully it will be something that will be meaningful. And if you want to talk about them, I hope you'll reach out to me. Number one. Your legacy isn't the numbers you put up. It isn't the scoreboard, and it isn't the results. As much as we might want to think it, our legacy as a leader is the roster we create. Listen, Trophies collect dust. I know I've got my share. Titles expire. They're meaningless minutes after you earn them, because only thing that matters is what we're doing now. But the people that you develop, the ones that went on to lead their own teams and build their own companies and raise up their own people, that's a living legacy. Every leader you help shape is a character in the story that outlasts you. Number two, the coaching tree is the ultimate scoreboard. In sports, we track coaching trees obsessively. Who came from whom, who learned from who. Sales leadership should be no different. The question isn't just, did you hit your number? It really is, who did you produce? College football coach Nick Saban's legacy is so much more than just a handful of championships. It's the coaches and the leaders who came from his program over and over again. So my question to you is, what does your coaching tree look like? This is a big one. What does your coaching tree look like? That takes me to number three. Your job is to help people get to places they care about faster than you did. Your path should be harder and more onerous than that of those you lead. Elite leaders, we learn through failure, through pivots, and the long way around. But the privilege of leadership is taking that timeline and collapsing, collapsing it for someone else. Not doing the work for them, but shining a light on the past so they don't lose time in the dark like you did. My question is, are you able to help people accomplish in two to three years what took you four to five years to do? That's the jam. If you can take something and say to someone, man, it took me five years to get there, I want to get you there in two. That's when you become someone that people will line up to follow. Number four, you can't accelerate what you don't connect with. Development without relationship, and connection is just training. And training without trust gets you compliance, but never transformation. Listen, trust is that catalyst. Like, I've been talking to groups a lot in the last few weeks, and one of the things I'm sharing is urgency. Without trust, that only creates panic. Urgency with trust, that creates intentional action. And they are not even close to the same thing. We need to create that action that leads to transformation. And the leaders who achieve the greatest legacies, they aren't the ones with the best playbooks. They are the ones who make people feel genuinely seen. They are the ones who help people become something that they would have not become on their own. Or at least become something that they want to be faster. Connection is the correct currency of acceleration. Connection. That's the jam. Accepting the role is everything. A lot of leaders want the identity of a developer, of people, without accepting the responsibility of it. But if you truly buy into that role and if you truly believe that your legacy is your people, like the title of this episode would suggest, it has to change how you spend your time, your energy, and your attention. You have to become the accelerator, not just talk about being one. That's a big shift. That's the true identity. And it takes intentionality to do it and do it right. So this week's so what is simple. Your people are watching you to see if you'll walk your talk, if you are really someone who is who you say you are, who you pretend to be. Because talk is cheap. Listen. Legacy is not declared. It's demonstrated. And those who do it right, they do a lot more than put some numbers on the board. They change lives, they change companies, and they change careers. So, William, thank you so much for joining me today. I appreciate you. Thank you for your insights and your fantastic approach to leadership. Congrats to you on your wild success. And on behalf of nearly 60,000 sales leaders worldwide, I appreciate you sharing an outcome of your time and some incredible insights. I love your approach to leadership, to creating an environment where people don't want to leave, where they embrace change, they experience growth, and they benefit from a leader committed to the development of those they are fortunate enough to lead. Your work with clarity, consistency and authenticity is exactly what our community needs more of. And I can't wait to have you get shown off in Sales Leadership United. Your insights will help a lot of great leaders become even better. Listen, I hope each one of our listeners uses the links in the show notes to connect with William. Hit him up, reach out, check out his books. Reach into his resources. He's a leader who will help you and you'll be glad to be connected to him. Finally, thanks to each of you, our listeners, the greatest compliment you give is when you share the show with those you work with. Introduce him to the Sales Leadership podcast. Leave us a review on itunes and you can support the show by checking, checking out Sales Leadership United. Head to salesleadershipunited.com and check it out. You'll be glad you did. Thank you for your ongoing support of this show. Our job as sales leaders is to create life changing years for the people we lead. And if you liked this message, please share it with someone who needs to hear it and then get after it this week because life is short. There is no guarantee of what comes tomorrow. Maximize your today. Be elite, live strong and chase your path and do your best work so you can live your best life. And don't ever forget, you got this and I got you. Here's to a terrific week. Thank you so much for joining the Sales Leadership Podcast, the award winning Sales Leadership Podcast for those sales leaders looking to create legendary impact to those they lead. The greatest compliment you can give is to share this show and any of your favorite episodes with your fellow sales leaders, social media followers or other communities you're part of. The Sales Leadership Podcast is brought to you by the Jephson Performance Group. If you want to discuss any of the topics discussed on the show, want to level up your leadership impact, discuss executive coaching services, or even include me at an upcoming event, hit me up@robjetpg.com that's Rob and to those of you working to become a legendary sales leader, I salute you and wish you much success on your journey. Whenever you need someone in your corner, you know where to find.