Episode 327: Robert Moseley Founder and CEO of GTM Engine - Contextual Coaching > Content-Driven Coaching Every. Single. Time.

Speaker A: Hey, thanks for checking out the sales leadership podcast. I'm your host, Rob Jepsen, and I have a good one today. Today we're hitting my very favorite leadership skill head on. One we haven't talked about for a minute. And I have a killer expert that you're gonna like. But first, if you're considering a speaker for your sales kickoff or leadership retreat, please consider me. We're booking a ton of SKOs and leadership retreats right now. We just got three more last week, and it's one of my very favorite things I get to do. I am not one of those speakers who shows up with a canned talk and then hopes you like it. We work closely with leadership teams to design, custom, create an experience that does three things. Job one, it's got to be fun. Job two, it's got to challenge how they think. We got to get new ways of thinking and help people look at their challenges differently. And third is most important, it's got to motivate them to change. We want every member of your team to say, not only can I do that, I want to and I will. So whether you want someone to speak to your entire team or just work with your leadership group, I hope you'll give us a shot. Please reach out. Let's see if we can make a great event. Elite. Finally today, we're going to talk about the ultimate sales leadership superpower. If you don't know what it is, it's coaching. Period. End of story. Coaching is our biggest leadership tool, and it's also the one that screwed up more than anything else. We make it about the agendas or about the data or about the activities. And what I found in my career is that the biggest difference between managers and leaders shows up and how they coach. The average manager makes it about the art of creating new activities, but the elite leader, they make coaching the art of new possibilities. And to dive this, to guide this deep dive into what elite leaders do. In becoming an elite coach, I am excited to introduce the CEO and founder of a hot new AI tool designed for sales coaching and sales leaders. You are going to love Robert Mosley, founder and CEO of GTM Engine. This is a masterclass on why coaching works, when it does, and why, more often than not, why it doesn't. The great leaders never stop looking for ways to have more influence and more impact. And today, you're gonna want to have your notepad ready because we got a good one for you. So you ready? Let's freaking go. Hi, I'm Rob Jepsen and My mission is to help sales leaders everywhere create record setting growth from the companies they lead. I'm here to share the secrets of the world's most successful sales leaders. I don't care how big the company or how big the team. We showcase sales leaders who are taking what the market gives and then some. This show features leaders of teams who are beating their markets, winning at crazy rates and creating life changing years for the people they lead. The Sales Leadership Podcast is brought to you by Sales Leadership United, the world's largest collection of sales leadership assets. Be sure to check out the all new salesleadershipunited.com fast track your sales leadership development. Gain insights into how other sales leaders are solving challenges similar to the ones you face and tap into over 400 leadership topics, hundreds of video insights, battle tested leadership frameworks and new material that comes out every single week. Sales Leadership United is the easiest investment in yourself you'll ever make. Head to salesleadershipunited.com use the code Rob at signup and get a free trial on me. Now get ready for some serious insights from sales leaders who are making it happen. And remember, don't worry, we got you. Hello and uh, welcome to the Sales Leadership Podcast where high growth sales leaders share high growth practices and tactics. Man, I love to hear from so many of you on how helpful the guests have been. Thank you for supporting our show and thank you for the DMs telling me your stories on how the show is helping your career but also recommending people that we ought to get on next. Keep both of them coming. It's why we do this. It's why I love what I do. And today I got another great one for you. Today I'm pumped to welcome Robert Mosley to the show. Rob's the founder and CEO of GTM Engine. It's a place where AI doesn't just automate the administrative part of sales sales leadership, but it goes one step farther and helps you have better, more individualized and more impactful coaching conversations as well. Now I'm convinced. And it's a, it's a, it's a fight. I will die on the hill for that. Coaching is the ultimate sales leadership superpower and I believe it's the skill that separates the elite leaders from the average ones. Data continues to show that most leaders self identify as awesome at coaching. But the reps that work for these self proclaimed awesome coaches say that A coaching either isn't really happening or B it's not that helpful. And that's why every leader of the 60,000 subscribers we have. They need to pay attention to the conversation I'm having with Rob today and the work they're doing at GTM Engine. Rob's had a long career seeing firsthand what happens when leaders find ways to A, create more selling time for members of the team and B, transform coaching from a conversation to an elite conversation where they say, not only do I have more available selling time, but now I'm going to focus on how to do the right things, right? Because when you do that, it creates career changing results. So today we're going to talk about how leaders of a team will do those two things. Create more selling time and then do the right things, right. It's a killer conversation as we push into the end of this year and prepare for what's coming up in 2026. If you can't tell, I'm super excited. I'm fired up. I've gotten to know Rob a little bit. This is going to be a conversation that every single one of you is going to benefit from if you choose to. So, Rob, let's get after it. Welcome to the show and thanks for joining me, brother.

Speaker B: Awesome. Thanks, Rob. Happy to be here.

Speaker A: Why don't you start? We got, uh, we got 60,000 of your closest friends all around the world listening today, man. And, and uh, why you start by introducing yourself and the cool things that are going on at GTM Engine right now.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, for sure. So you gave an awesome introduction for me by the way. So thanks for being an awesome hype man. But, uh, let's go Rob. Mostly I've been in the Silicon Valley startup scene for 16, 17 years now, um, starting way back in 2008, um, more on the technical side of things, I guess, in sales for like 17 years, right. I've built everything from sales teams to solutions teams. Typically I start early on at companies, so I end up being kind of like putting together the initial systems, right? Like, how are we going to piece together like our sales function, right? Like, what tools are we going to need? What processes are we going to need? How are we going to try to enforce those processes? A lot of times it's like really early on where we don't even know what's going to work yet, right? So there's a lot of experimentation going on. But, um, ultimately like, as these companies grow, like I've noticed these like, patterns emerge over and over and over, right? Where the burden becomes like really great on the sales team because everybody wants to know what's going on in sales, right? So like Marketing has their questions. You know, where did, how did they hear about us? Where did they come from? You know, what, uh, what, what is their ICP profile? What are they talking about? What's resonating, what's not resonating? There's all these questions that marketing has and product has questions, right? Like what integrations are people asking for? You know, what use cases, like what bugs are they encountering? What feedback have we gotten? Customer success, of course. Like, hey, before you hand the deal off to us, we need to know these 20 things, right? So we can kick this off, right? Um, and then, you know, sales itself, right? Like what, what stages are working? Like what's, you know, all the, all the custom stuff that goes into a CRM basically is designed to answer these sorts of questions. But, um, all this stuff falls on the back of the salesperson, right? Like every single field that you add to learn something about the process and how you're engaging with your prospects, it's just another straw on the camel's back. One more thing that the salesperson has to do and think about that takes them away from selling. Um, and then it's going to be, it's going to be there forever, right? It's like that straw doesn't go away. Like, I've never seen fields removed from Salesforce. People are scared to remove fields. They had more and more.

Speaker A: True, man.

Speaker B: So basically like rebuilt our system to just 100% eliminate all that burden from the salesperson because they shouldn't be thinking about that stuff. And that data already exists out there and AI is in a spot now that it's not only like really, really good at, uh, doing this sort of thing, it's far more accurate than what you would get out of your sellers anyway. So it's kind of a win, win situation.

Speaker A: I really like what you said, that you found that if you can eliminate burdens from salespeople, that's a really succinctly way of stating it. And uh, and I like that that's. Yeah, that's something that will get a lot of attention from the people that are listening today. That sometimes we overcomplicate sales processes, sometimes we overcomplicate what we ask sales. But I also like your perspective that you said something really important. Everybody wants to know what's going on in the sales function and it's not just what are the sales results and what's the pipeline. I liked how you added that layer of clarity. Like marketing wants to know the ICP or what are people responding to or what Questions are they asking and like having the ability to gain, I don't know, like line of sight into what we're learning in sales. And not just treating sales as a, ah, get me deals, but instead it's bring me insights. Am I saying that right?

Speaker B: 100%. I mean like if you think about it, sales, like they're the ones interfacing with your ICP on a daily basis. If you have, say, I, um, don't know, 40 salespeople on your team, they're having at least one conversation a day with somebody who either is your customer or who you want to be your customer. Right. There's no other team in the entire company that has that level of insight into what is actually driving your prospects and your customers. But then it's completely an art form. Sales is in my opinion, um, and none of this data percolates its way down to these other teams that really need these insights. Product needs these insights. And you see this happen all the time where it's like marketing is completely disconnected from the message that actually works. You know, like you'll go to a website and you're like, I have no idea what this company does.

Speaker A: Amen. I love, I love your background. I love that story. Give us just a couple of minutes. Tell our, like you've talked about your background. 17 years in the startup scene, Silicon Valley. Your perspective is a really interesting one. In fact, we should probably do another show on how do you gain insights from salespeople? Like that's a whole show in and of itself like, like gaining insights rather than just like pipeline data, right? Uh, yep. Which too often we treat salespeople as a means to an end and rather than like, what's the. Like that's a show that we should probably have. I can't believe in six years I've

Speaker B: never had that show before.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Oh yeah. That literally should be another show. I'll say one quick thing on that.

Speaker A: Let's go.

Speaker B: So 70% of a salesperson's time is spent doing non selling things. We call them salespeople but like they only spend 30% of their time actually selling. So should they be called salespeople or should, should they be called admins, data entry, monkeys, you know, that's what they spend most of their time doing. And I think like the, the typical response if like you're not hitting your number, things aren't quite working as you hoped. The initial response from almost everybody in that situation. I've been a part of more than a few of those situations. Use the nature of being at startups, um, the response is always to add process, to add more burden to the salespeople. It's never like, hey, you know what, let's, let's reduce the number of stages we have from like 8 to 4. Let's remove the number of required fields in Salesforce. Um, let's get back to basics. It's never that. It's like, let's add more process, let's add more burdens. We can try to figure out where things are going wrong. If we're not selling right, that means that they're not following the process. So we have to add more strict enforcement and make people just read the script as opposed to like do what they're supposed to. You're hiring people to sell, not read a script.

Speaker A: That's a really refreshing point of view. And you probably have a lot of sales leaders that are like saying right now, I like this guy. And uh, and I'll tell you why. I can tell you for sure, one of the hardest things to swallow is when someone who's never sold anything in their life wants to come in and tell a sales team how to sell.

Speaker B: Yeah, right.

Speaker A: Like I want to start, like I lose my mind. I remember especially when I was younger and I didn't have as much emotional, uh, intelligence, uh, nothing would piss me off more when someone who depended on the revenue I would bring in but couldn't sell their way out of a wet paper bag said, this is your process. Yeah, like I would lose my mind. And so the perspective of a, of a pro like you that comes in and says, let's, let's not add more process to this. Let's, let's find ways to create a

Speaker B: little more room, more headspace.

Speaker A: Yeah, I like that. That's really good. And so let's start with that 70% number, uh, that you shared. I think that's worth pointing out that I've seen the same study, uh, that you're referring to. I know the study has done well. I believe the results. I don't think that it's like, yeah, I believe that that number is accurate. That roughly 70% of a salesperson's time is on non selling activities. I always call them RGA's, revenue generating.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker A: And, and if we can have clarity on what the RGAs are, that job one is, let's make sure that we maximize our ability to do the RGAs. And then job two is, how do we do them? Well, and let's get to that. I want to take that two minutes still because we jumped over. I don't want to just jump in because I want our listeners to know who GTM engine is. So can you just give us two minutes on GTM engine and what you do and where you fit and, and why you guys are having a really exciting, uh, growth, uh, time right now?

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, for sure. Um, yeah. Think of like all the, the work that salespeople do throughout a process, like all the administrative burdens. Like think of us as just like automating that. Right? Like all the data. Already everybody's using a call recorder like gong, which is one of our biggest integrations, like Chorus or Sybil or you know, all the, There's a thousand of them out there now. Yep. Um, sales communications happen back and forth in email, um, even stuff like raw notes. Imagine you're a rep, you're doing a call, you're writing down your notes, stream of consciousness style, and then you're asked to translate that into individual fields in the CRM, um, afterwards. But that's even a cognitive burden. That takes time. So how can we take all this unstructured stuff, like the transcript from the call, for instance, the raw email body, associate that with the right records. Right. And then understand what those records are. Like, what are all the fields on your opportunity object, for instance, what are all the fields in your contact object? What are all the fields in your account object? And how can we automatically and continuously re. Evaluate the inputs in those fields? So it's like literally removing. So when you do this though, so it's removing all that burden from the rep, which is like one point, right? Like fine. Like reps get, you know, it's like 18% of their time back. Like they don't have to do this administrative stuff anymore. That's not really like, that is a huge value add, of course. But the flip side of that is, um, you get better data, you get more accurate data. It's real time. As soon as that email comes in and somebody says, hey, we're leaning towards a competitor that's going to immediately update the opportunity, all the individual fields, the forecast date, the health score, that's going to raise a flag right away. Now, instead of finding out the last day of the quarter, well too long past when you could do something about it. Now you're finding out. As soon as that comes in, you can gather. We'll talk more about this later, I think, but then you can gather the troops and like you can actually coach, like as a leader. If you see this, uh, these are coachable moments, right? These are the moments that like make good salespeople. But if you don't have the opportunity to like capture that moment as like a leader and like coach your team through how to deal with that, it's lost. You've lost that teaching moment. I think there's a big culture of fear as well, which like sales reps, they might keep that quiet because oh man, now my pipeline goes from like 250% coverage down to 125% coverage because I was relying on that one and that makes me look bad. So I'm not going to say anything about it. I'm going to try to do what I can to rescue it on the side.

Speaker A: I'll try to rescue it or I'll just act surprised if it doesn't close at the end when like yeah, uh,

Speaker B: yeah, blame it on something.

Speaker A: They went non responsive like whatever because this still exists. And maybe you already know this and maybe this will surprise you. It surprised me when I first saw this a few years ago. And I get blown away as a performance coach when I get brought into organizations. There are many organizations that will never have a problem for a salesperson who doesn't hit their number just because the deals didn't close. But they will fire people for not having enough pipeline coverage. So you end up having dirty, nasty, completely irrelevant pipeline information because people are just trying to cover their asses by having any deal will do so long as I get my 4x or 5x quota or whatever their number is, which is.

Speaker B: Yep. Oh, you higher than it needs to be?

Speaker A: Yeah, because it's higher than it needs to be. Because it's, because it's filled with, with bad data in the first place. Right?

Speaker B: Yeah, it's all, it's all nonsense. I mean and, and the reason, I mean it's this culture of fear I think. Right. Instead of like a culture of coaching, it's a culture of fear. And um, I've seen this play out many, many times. Especially like early on in my career when I was more on the solution side. I'd be working alongside these reps and we'd be sitting down at the QBR and they'd be up there giving their presentation about their pipeline. And like I know I've been part of these deals and like, like 70 of these are fake. You know, like they, we talked to them one time and they never responded. And you have them, you know, as like one of your big deals for the quarter. Yeah, it's performative.

Speaker A: It's a quarter saver and we, and we have no freaking chance. All right. I love it and I love your story, man. So, so you're using AI to do it. Uh, you've got some great integrations. Um, you're not only automating to give that 15, 18, 20% bump in available time for doing revenue generated activities, but you're also giving them more meaningful data that they can actually make decisions around and start to have a higher level of confidence around. Is that simple? Simple? Simple. I know it's more than that, but that's a simple, simple where you stand.

Speaker B: Yeah, I mean basically what we did is we looked at like what is the life of an opportunity, right? Like let's say from, as a salesperson, from that perspective, like from the very first touch point, very first call, you have all the way to closed one. What are all the things that a uh, rep has to do in between? Right. The very first thing, prep. Right. How do I, how do I, how do I pitch this to this company? And these contacts, right, that stuff we can automate as well. Like we'll create records, we'll do research on companies accounts. You know, we will integrate with, you know, um, we can do like web search, integrate with like tools like Perplexity or whatever. So we see a, a new meeting pop up on a reps calendar. We look at everybody who's going to be attending, we find out who they are, we find out the company that they belong to and then we do research on that company. Right. Like what about recent news about that company? What about their open headcount? Have they had any recent hires? Have they announced anything recently that would, you know, lend to our message better? Right. And this is completely customizable. But then like reps go into these meetings saying like, all right, I know exactly who I'm meeting with and I know what's going to resonate with them. And so it's not just about like removing time because they could do that stuff themselves. And good reps are supposed to, um, they typically don't, at least not to this level. Right. But if you spoon feed it to them right before the meeting, they can look at that and they can go in better prepared. So it's like, it's not about just like giving them more time to sell, it's also about like making them execute better when they are selling.

Speaker A: All right, so I love where you are, I love where you fit well at the end make sure that we give people opportunity to uh, connect and learn more. And let's, let's dive into the why the, this problem is so important for a sales leader to be intentional about so many times. I think we just work hard and we just kind of cross our fingers and hope things will get better. But this is one that we've got. Like I don't think that you'll ever get places unless you're intentional about it. I don't believe in just work hard and hope. There's very few happy accidents. The elite leaders are the most intentional leaders. And I think the problem you're good at helping people overcome is one that companies need to prioritize. So, so let's, let's jump back into where you already kind of gave us a head start. I had to hit rewind and go back. I didn't want to just skip past what we just did. So let's go back to the 70% number, right?

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And um, and I already said that I'm a believer in RGA's and step one is do more revenue generating activities. And the best way to do that is create more time because you can only work so hard. What you don't want is to ask people to work harder and longer. I think that's a huge mistake. Um, so the number one, how do we create more time for RGAs? And then step two is where you get that multiplying, that flywheel effect. How do you do the RGAS better? So that's where I think the space that we're going to spend our time talking about today if we were to simplify it, it's those two things. And then I got a couple of other things I want to, if we have time that we'll take it. Those places you live in this world, you're talking to companies all around the world. You, you've, you've had success, successful launch, you've got lots and lots of people talking to you. It's small startups, it's medium sized leaders, it's big companies that are market leaders. You've shared some of it with me. You've got this opportunity to talk to every kind of company. Right. And that's fantastic. Here's my first question to you. How do leaders accomplish both of those things? How do you do both? How do you get more time? But more time by itself isn't good enough. And we'll. How do leaders do that? Can you help, help our, our listeners get your perspective on um, that.

Speaker B: Yeah, for sure. I mean, I think, I mean you got to approach them. You got to do one before the other. There is definitely like a chicken and egg scenario here. Before you can make them better at the things to do. You have to give them space to do it. You know, if I only, if I, if I can only practice something a short amount of time, I'm not going to be as good at it as if I have double the amount of time to practice. Right. And so you got to. And like the amount of context switching that happens in sales is a huge detriment to effectiveness. Right. If you have to do all these different things instead of just sell, you're not going to be as effective at selling. So first you have to kind of like remove the noise. Right. So give them more space. So what are all the things that we can automate nowadays? Like the, the current systems are pretty archaic. And, um, I think in the next years, like, we'll see, like, Salesforce doesn't look anything like it does now. It'll still be around. They're not going anywhere, but it's not going to look like it does now. Um, and then how do you make them better at doing this? So you got to like take that 30% of time they have selling. You got to make that, you know, 50, 60%. You're not gonna be able to eliminate all of it.

Speaker A: But if you Can I interrupt you?

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: I love what you just said. Uh, take that 30% and make it more than 50 as a starter. Job one is get to a point where more than 50% of your time is on revenue generating activities.

Speaker B: Yeah. Is that, I mean, you just grew

Speaker A: yourself dream or is that a. Is that a realistic. Yeah, so I know, I'm glad you're laughing. I'm glad you're laughing because I think that's what we want these 60,000 listeners that are listening to you right now to say is first, where are you? Like, I love doing time audits. I love doing that. You may say, oh, we're better than 30, but are you north of 50? I think job one should be, can we get to greater than 50%? And I love when I said, is that realistic? You laughed. And I hope people will go watch on YouTube so they can see your face. Like, you're like almost incredulous. You're like, of course it is.

Speaker B: No, I mean, so the reason I laughed is like, yes, of course it is. But like I said, I see this. But that's actually the reaction that we get from most of our prospects when we talk to them. It almost seems like too good to be true. Because it's been an intractable problem from the beginning. This problem's never been solved. That 70% number. It peaked in 2022 like it used to be lower. It peaked in 2022 at 70% and it hasn't come down. And the study that this comes from is the Salesforce data sales report.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: It's a really, really well done study. They do it every year. There's probably the next version coming out. I suspect those numbers are going to be about the same.

Speaker A: I watch for that study every year and I have for a long time. Right. That I think it's a gold standard study, personally.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. They, they interview something like 20 or 30,000 sales reps and leaders and give them a survey, um, and normalize the data. It's really interesting. Um, but anyways, yeah, so you can do that. Like if you can get above 50%. Right. So going from 30% selling time to say 50% selling time, like you just increased your sales team by 70% without hiring any. Anybody like and without having to hire anybody that you have to train for six months. That has to build pipeline from zero. That has to understand your industry, has to understand your ICPs, to understand your product, has to understand and learn your process. Right. If you can have the existing butts and seat perform 70% better, that's, I mean that's obviously a win. Right. Um, and then it's because that may

Speaker A: be the title of our episode, how to improve your team by 70% without hiring anybody.

Speaker B: Right? Yeah, yeah. I mean that's the promise of AI. Right. It hasn't happened yet. I mean that, that's, it's that 70% number peaked in 2022. That's the same year that Chat GPT came out. You know, three years later, it still hasn't changed. Right. So. And that's the interesting thing. I think like most of the applications here, it's like, well, if we just give our sales reps a chatbot and throw that in front of them in like a prompt library, like that will help. No, it doesn't. That's just another thing they have to log into and they just don't do it. So you gotta, you gotta approach the problem. If you're truly gonna do that. You have to, you can't give them another tool. You have to remove tools, you have to remove process, you have to give them that time back.

Speaker A: Truly makes sense. All right, so that's job one is, is yeah, get time back. And is that something that you should be talking about? Is that part of your one on one coaching is use of time. Something that in your experience like great leaders should be Talking about that and be aware of that because. Yeah, I think it is. I think. I think it's one that we don't talk about enough, to be honest. I think we're so worried about counting calls. We don't look at ways to make calls or whatever. Count.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And.

Speaker B: Yeah. Ah, I mean. Oh, God, yes. You said this comes up all the time, right? So, like right now, the best. The best proxy that we have for, uh, how a rep is spending their time is just literally the number of activities that they've done, which is.

Speaker A: Yeah. It's such a ineffective way. But I just interrupt. You keep going.

Speaker B: Well, I mean, I can. And then it's a. You can, you can game that number. Right. So. But anyways, it's not even the right metric to track. Right. It's quality.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: What are you spending your time doing? Like, you might have a rep, but like, to even understand where you should be spending your time, you also have to understand, like where you are right now. It's like a big part of our product too, is to be analyze all the data across your entire sales team. Right. We understand everybody's individual pipeline coverage percentage. We understand how everybody is tracking towards their number, how many of them are going to hit their number. We understand everybody's win rates, we understand everybody's stage conversion rates. And we have this other metric called, uh, health pipeline health. So every opportunity comes with a health score. Basically think of that as a proxy. Like, how likely is this to close? Right. So we aggregate these numbers across every single sales rep. And then in the dashboard for the ae, you can see specifically how you compare against your peers on these numbers. Right. So if I'm looking at this dashboard and I can see, um, you know, hey, my pipeline coverage is actually really good, but my conversion rate is actually lower than average. I better practice, like command of the message. Right. I gotta. That's where I gotta focus. Like, PG stuff I'm doing pretty good on. Right. So it's like if you're going to coach somebody or coach yourself even, like, you have to know where you're strong and where you're weak. Because if you're. If you know you're strong in something, everybody inevitably just does the thing that they're strong at because they're good at it. And you feel good when you do it because you're good at it. Right. It's very, very hard.

Speaker A: That is so true. And it's also why so few people really understand what growth means because they have their superpowers and they don't add to it or you know, it's such a well said thing. So leaders, leaders that are aware of that will always outperform the others, won't they?

Speaker B: Uh, 100%. Right. I mean you take somebody's strengths and you, you know, you lean on those, but you, more importantly, you have to know where they're weak. And I especially see this in like young reps that kind of just graduated from SDR to ae. Like they're pipe generation machines, which makes sense, right? That's, that's how they, and they were really good at that, which is why they became AES. So like their pipeline coverage really big. And then you see them on like a, a uh, call, they'll book a meeting, they'll get in that call and it'll completely fall flat. Right. So this is what I mean, like understanding where everybody's standing, what they're good at, what they're weak at. Like that's the stuff that allows you to like actually coach them and make them better.

Speaker A: I really like that. We'll get into coaching here in a second, but I, I really like that. So I guess my challenge would be to our listeners, get a sense of what you're active selling time looks like. I mean maybe you start by reading the Salesforce State of the Selling World and you, and you read that so you can get a sense of how they're benchmarking that. But I would, I would suggest that every leader ought to have kind of a ballpark idea because as we record this, we're in September, it's going to go live, um, right at the, as we're going into the fourth quarter, um, not only will it help you finish the year strong, it's gonna help you have next year be the best year you've ever had. If you can do something as simple as have your people start spending more time on active selling. But if you don't know what it is, it's very hard to say how do I get better? So is that a fair thing? Like get a sense of that, Do a time audit, like whatever. Uh, that's something that every single leader ought to make sure that they're doing. Uh, that I think very few do.

Speaker B: Just ask the team, they'll tell you, they'll tell you what they hate doing. They'll tell you what part of your process doesn't make sense if you give them like the, the, the safe space to do that. Of course, you know, a lot of times there's like, you'll ask and you know, people are Afraid of, of speaking up. They talk to each other, that's for sure.

Speaker A: Well, when, uh, when people hire me, that's something I'd sometimes do before we start, we start working on leadership improvement. As I said, let me do a time audit. And so they hire me and I'm. That safe place or member of my team is that safe place. And, and we go in, say, this is what the use of time. You want it to look like, and this is what it actually is. And if all we did was make this look like what you wanted it to, that by itself would change what happens. That's a really cool exercise for a leader to have because it empowers them to say we have to, we have to do the things that will do that or else. Anyway. Cool.

Speaker B: Yeah, I've seen, I've seen like, anonymous surveys work too. If they're truly anonymous and if it's like, done in a way where like, they feel the, the safe space to actually say what they think is broken without, like, getting punished afterwards. Right. You'll hear it. You'll hear it. And then like, the, the real, the real thing that a strong leader would do is like, take that and do something about it.

Speaker A: Yeah, that's the more important part. What do you do with it? I like what you said earlier about having a, uh, culture of coaching versus a culture of fear. There's no doubt in my mind that fear based leadership is alive and well in far too many places.

Speaker B: Far too many places. It's growing too. It is.

Speaker A: You think it's getting worse, not better?

Speaker B: Yeah, there was a time there where it was getting better. Um, it's gotten way worse lately, and I think it's because it's harder to sell.

Speaker A: Why do you think that is? Yeah, tell me why you think that is. I'm interested. Let's, let's sit in that for a minute. That's a really great insight.

Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, you go back to, like, I don't know, I hate to call this era like the golden age for like 2021, 2022, during COVID um, when money was free, basically, people were buying stuff, more people were hitting their numbers. Um, you know, when, as soon as that tightened up and we got back to reality and like, sellers had to actually sell, and all of a sudden, like, companies weren't hitting their targets anymore. I think the natural reaction was, well, we got to get more strict, you know, they're not doing their jobs. So you've seen this, like, growth in this culture of fear.

Speaker A: That's really interesting. That's, I guess my second challenge for this is, is for our leaders to ask themselves are, uh, am I le into things that create that feeling of fear which is always a, uh, byproduct of the scarcity mentality instead of the abundant mentality. I like that. Let's talk about coaching. Let's get into that for a second. Um, let me give you my point of view on that. Just as a way of maybe starting to foray into it. I, I've already said that I think it's the greatest superpower a leader can have is to be an elite coach. I think most people, uh, do what was done to them. I don't think there's a lot of real great training. I think too many people think it's about reviewing the metrics or it's the strength of the coaching agenda, which I laugh at, to be honest. Um, here's what I think. I think every year our job as sales leaders is to have the greatest year in company history. Every single year. We have to. Status quo is never okay. We have to by, by default. Our job as a sales leader is to engineer the greatest year the company's ever had. But let's pretend we're going to chase 20% growth, okay? We're not going to usually get to have 20% more people if I'm big company. If you're a startup, maybe you have to have 200% growth and you're probably not going to get 200% more people. Um, and so we can't take a linear leadership approach. We have to find those disproportionate results. We have to find ways that we get better instead of just work harder. And, and so, yes, step one was create more selling time, but step two is how do I get better at what I do? And, um, and so I, I have learned that too many leaders say, well, if I had more people, then I could hit more numbers. That, that's not good enough. We have to get better. Um, how do you.

Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, that's all your fun chance.

Speaker A: How do you find leverage points? Can you share some insights? How does a leader find leverage points like that?

Speaker B: That. Yeah, I mean, okay, so you look at it this way. Like, let's say you want to grow, you know, 20%, right? There's a few. You could either hire 20% more people, you could increase everybody's quota by 20%, or you could make the existing team 20% more effective. And like, which of those is actually going to work?

Speaker A: Obviously the last one.

Speaker B: Yeah, the I've seen, you know, like I've seen the spreadsheets. The first one is the approach where it's look, if I just hire this many AES, this will be my revenue, you know, because here's our attainment, here's the number of people. But like ultimately you want to send more people to club. You want everybody to go to club. Ideally, like your company is doing really, really well if everybody's going to club. Um, so how do you do that? Right? And I think like by freeing up that time by automating the stuff, the understanding of the opportunity. Right, the opportunity. The, the everybody who's involved in the opportunity. So if you take like the, the weekly one on ones between like a manager and a uh, rep, rep, frontline rep, right now, those typically go, all right, let's go through your pipeline. What's going on in this deal? What's going on in this deal? It's question and then the rep is giving their best interpretation or whatever they feel comfortable saying about what's going on in that deal back, right? When you remove just like the administrative burden from entering the data about the opportunity, about the contacts, about the account for every single opportunity in your pipeline, you already have like real time objective data across whatever you want to track. Right? So then those conversations become not, tell me what's going on in this opportunity. It's I see. This is what's happening in this opportunity. How about we do this?

Speaker A: By the way, I want to sit in what you just said. I want to. You said something that might have seemed subtle, but it was profound and I want our listeners to hear it. You didn't say tell me what's going on. You said, I see that this is going on. Let's discuss X. Yep. That is a massive difference. Yes.

Speaker B: Yeah. Oh, it's a huge difference, right? Because I mean like sales people, they don't, they're not lone wolves. Like, no, no seller is an island, right? There's an entire support system around. And like I said like early on, like I uh, came up in the solutions space and I would like so many times I would get asked like right before, hey, 10 minutes, can you jump on this call and do a demo? Cool. Yeah, I can do that. Who are we meeting with? What do they, what do they care about? Like, what are the, where are the landmines? Right? Like, what should I, what should I stay away from? Who are we competing against? That would make me do my job way better. But I'd never have that information. I'd go into Salesforce I would look, there'd be nothing in there, you know, nothing useful to me anyways. I don't know who I'm meeting with. I don't know what drives them. I don't know what they've seen already. I don't know what they care about, what their use cases are, like, whatever. Right. Um, by having this information available to not just the seller, but everybody, like, everybody's working on this. You're all rowing in the same direction, basically. And from a coaching perspective, too, something happens. It happens in every single deal. Things do not go according to plan. You know, as soon as you start to the very first stage in your sales process, things are already not going according to plan. They don't follow this nice linear progression. Right. So there's so many coachable, teachable, strategic moments throughout a sales process that if you don't have access to the objective truth of what's going on, it's, it's. You're trying to dig it out of the reps, you're wasting so much time digging it out of the reps, trying to figure out what's going to close this quarter that you never get an opportunity to actually coach.

Speaker A: So let's talk. We have. I can't believe how fast the time's gone. I knew it would. We got like 10 minutes left. Like, what do you, in your perspective as someone that's in the coaching business, helping modern leaders become modern elite coaches? Like, the tools have changed, the pressure has changed, the environment has changed. Like, if you're doing what you were doing even two years ago, we're at the end of 2025. If you still have a 2023 approach to coaching, you're probably outdated. Not probably. You are most definitely outdated. Okay, so what are the things that the, uh, the best coaches, like what goes into high impact coaching right now?

Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, it's. It's 100% contextual, 100% understanding who you're talking with, what their strengths are, what their weaknesses are and the situation.

Speaker A: Number one, I just interrupted you again. I want to, I just want to point that out. It's not the content, it is the context. Yeah, because. Because I'm telling you, Rob, I see all the time, oh, this is the magic agenda. Oh, these are the metrics. Oh, no, it's the context. Uh, the first person I ever heard say it was Gary Vee, and he was talking about content marketing. Context is always better than content. Same thing applies if you're a Coach. Yes.

Speaker B: Yeah. 100. I mean, how can you do it otherwise, right. And like, people learn by doing, you know, not by being told. And all these other frameworks are designed to tell, not do. Um, nowadays we have an opportunity to like, coach them through a real life situation where they get real life, you know, game time, practice. And you're never going to become good unless you get that. The other thing that I'll say too is like the best sellers in the world. If you ask them, um, about an opportunity, right. They don't tell you about, oh, it's in this stage. It's like this amount. These are the use cases. They'll go, oh, I was talking to Jason the other day. We were texting back and forth. We're going to meet for lunch. He said he's going to introduce me to, you know, Tina in procurement so we can get that started. Because they said that that takes three months. So it's about the people, right? And I think the, the best salespeople understand that. It's not about the opportunity, it's about the people. Because people buy stuff. Companies don't buy stuff. And I am going somewhere with this, I promise. So it's about the people, not the process. And, uh, for coaching, it's the exact same thing. It's about the people, not the process. Process is there as kind of like a starting point, but too many people treat it as gospel when it's really about the people and the individual situations.

Speaker A: I love it. All right, so context first. Let me then ask the flip side of this. If that's the most important thing to get right, which I think is really important, and I think I know why I think most people miss that is because they're so agenda driven.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: We. We have these guardrails. These are the questions that we have. Have, you know, or. Yeah, our every sales process must go from step one to step two to step three, and they never go from one to four and back to two. Like, it never. Like, we're not allowed to do that. It's too m much. It's too rigid. Let me ask you this. So you've told me, what's the number one thing to get right? And that's being contextual. And that means we're individualizing it. And I think that's hard for a lot of leaders is to individualize it.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: What's the number one reason why coaching fails? Like, let me give you the background on that. One, uh, two studies that I'll point to one study where they asked lots of sales leaders, how good are you at coaching? 87% self identified as awesome. I'm awesome at it. I don't need help that well. 83% of the reps that work for them said, the coaching I get sucks. Okay? And to prove it, there's a Bain study that I love where Bain Consulting went out and talked to salespeople all around the world and said, if you had to pay out of your own pocket, how much would you pay for one hour of time with your leader? Okay, number one answer. Over 50%. Not even a buck.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker A: Not even a buck. And I landed one of my biggest deals I've ever landed because a company that participated in the study said, rob, we need our leaders to be worth more than a buck. Okay? And, um, so I said, I'm pretty sure we can do that. If you're. If your standard is be worth more than a buck, we can do that. Um, so why do you think the number. What are the top one or two reasons why coaching fails? Why is there such a disconnect in why coaching is not as effective as leaders? Think they're badasses at it? The reps that work for them say, it kind of sucks and I wouldn't pay for it. Like, it's almost like a necessary evil. I have to go through this thing. How do we fix that? What's the number one thing or number two? One top two things to get right.

Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I think it's the same answer, to be honest. Let's. I mean, okay, so, like, leaders become leaders because they were really good at being ICs. That's typically how it works, Right? So they're very good at doing that thing. Right? So they. They get in there. They have very high opinions of themselves, which are probably rightfully earned.

Speaker A: And we need them to, too. We need them to. Yeah.

Speaker B: So that 87% number makes sense. That jives. They're. They're the best, right? They're the ones that, you know, moved into those roles.

Speaker A: I'm a badass. Just tell me.

Speaker B: Yeah, right. Just let me.

Speaker A: Just ask me. Not. Don't just tell me. Just ask me. I'll tell you. I'm a badass.

Speaker B: Yeah, but coach, like, it's such, uh, Managing coaching is a completely different animal than doing the job as an ic. And I think a lot of people fail in that transition. And I've seen it. I've seen some of the. The best ICs. I'm like, man, you should just go back to being an ic. You're not good at this. So, like, those numbers make sense to me. But I think, like, it's again, it's context. It's context. It's what's going. So one example, I was trying to buy software for us. This is a real world thing. I'm not just making this up. I swear to God that this happened. I was trying to buy software. Um, I've used this tool before. I went to the website, I tried to just sign up. They didn't let me. I had to talk to sales. Fine. So I put in a demo request. They booked a meeting for the next week. I get down there, I go, I've used your tool at five different companies. I just want to install this, I want to use it. They go, well, I have to ask these questions. You know, we sat there for, sat there for an hour. There was literally 40. He literally said he's like, I have to do this, right? So we get off the call and I'm like, I don't even want to use this tool anymore. So I started looking for alternatives. So context, though. A really good coach would see the output after that and say like, like, okay, this person just wants a contract. Send him the contract, right? Not like, don't do the now. Don't bring on the SC to do a demo. And then like, don't offer up a POC just because their process says that. Send them the damn contract. Right? That's what I mean. Like, this is where context is key. So, like, how do you coach those moments? And then like, the, the rep learns, like, hey, you know what? The process isn't necessarily gospel. I could be contextual. I can, I can learn for this. Somebody's asking for a contract, I will send them the contract.

Speaker A: So here's what I love about your story and your, Your focus on context. Now that may now be the title of our episode is how context Beats Content every Time. And we'll, we'll steal from Gary Vee. Um, I like this because leaders, if the number one way you get coaching right is to be contextual, and the number one way we fail is we fail to be contextual, the right tools can help you be contextual and sort through all that noise. Right? Like, how do I have one on ones that people will value? Well, talk about stuff that will make them better, right?

Speaker B: Yeah. Talk about real world scenarios.

Speaker A: Yes. Don't just be like, well, we got. Here's the sales coaching version of your purchasing story. Ready? We have bought XYZ coaching tool and we have to have a coaching session that uses this agenda where I ask these questions and I log it in this coaching tool. And I don't get credit for my one on one unless I had all of those conversations. You're smiling again because you know what I'm saying is true.

Speaker B: Exactly.

Speaker A: And meanwhile, the rep's like, I don't need to talk about that. I need someone to help me. I know I'm missing my number. More like one of my favorites. I have a client that one of theirs is. They track how many proposals goes out and they're like, well, we're not hitting our number because we don't have enough proposals. And I'm like, that's a no shit Sherlock moment. What do we do? What do I do to get more proposals? I can't just say, get me more proposals. Yeah, like, so this is why the right tools can help you become more contextual. Not just give you more selling time, but can I get more contextual? And I think it's the perfect way with the three minutes that we got left. That's one of the problems you help solve at gtm, uh, engine is how do I get more contextual? Yeah, we'll help you get more time. That's cool. I love that, that. But I think where you really can be helpful is can I become more contextual? So, uh, how do people learn more about you? How, how do people say, wow, Rob, that was really interesting. I want to get more Rob Mosley. I want to get more GTM engine. I want to learn more about what you're doing. Like, how do people pick up what you're putting down? How do they connect to you? How do they learn more about the. How do they get more of what you got to offer, man?

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. So, I mean, obviously the website, you can book time to talk to us, but that's like the easiest thing. Um, go to GTAMengine AI demo. There's a nice little input box there. You can drop in your email and drop in a transcript, copy it out, a gong or chorus or whatever call recorder you're using. Throw it in there. And we actually like process that and we show you all the information that we know about the opportunity, the account, every single contact that participated in that conversation, every single contact that was mentioned in that conversation. It's basically like a simulation of like the sort of information, the sort of context that you would get, um, if we were in place. Um, it's a really, it's a really interesting exercise just to see all the things that you're missing. Do it with one that you're familiar with. Right? Do it with an Opportunity that, you know, like the back of your hands. You'd be surprised, like, how much stuff you're missing.

Speaker A: I love it. All right, so we'll put those links in the show notes. So we'll have your LinkedIn so they can connect you on LinkedIn. We'll have that, that the website GTM engine will also have that, that demo so they can get the context. And I would, I hope you have, you know, several thousand people that all want to see what that has to offer, because I've seen it and I think it's pretty, it's pretty killer. Um, we've run out of time. We. I told you when we started we're going to run time. It got here really fast, man, and I feel like we just scratched the surface.

Speaker B: Yeah, it did fly.

Speaker A: Let me give you like 60 seconds. Like if you were to put a cherry on top and this was Rob Mosley Unplugged, you know, like MTV used to do with like Eric Clapton Unplugged.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: So if we're going to little Mosley Unplugged and I gave you 60 seconds, how would you put a cherry on top? One final thought. For 60,000 leaders all around the world, what would it be?

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. I mean, again, context is key. Get the context. That's the only way to coach. Be objective, keep your ego out of it. That's the only way to improve, is understand where you're weak. Right. I think that's the big thing. And that's like what the tools today allow you to do is to actually discover that stuff without adding process burden to your team to try to discover that stuff, which typically doesn't work anyways. Um, the other thing that I would say is just like consider reboving process as opposed to adding process. If things aren't going well, look into what's not working. Cut that stuff out. All right.

Speaker A: I love it. His name is Rob Mosley. He's the founder, he's the CEO of GTM Engine. It's a really great tool that leverages AI to help you do two things as a leader. Number one, crack the 50% of time being used in sales activities. That should be your bare minimum. Can I get each of my members at least half of their time on revenue generating activities? But the one that really makes me want to stand up and share is when he can help you get more contextual. So instead of people showing up to one on ones because they have to, they'll come to one on ones because they want to. Because you're a Leader who is a catalyst. You're a leader who is someone who creates inflection points. You're a leader who creates life changing years for the people lucky enough to be on your team. Uh, and if you want to get your team 70% better without hiring anybody, my advice, go check out what Rob and the GTM engine people have to offer. Because if you even get close to what's possible, you'll be glad you did. Rob, um, on behalf of 60,000 people all around the world, I thank you for giving us an hour of your time. I congratulate you for the great things you're doing. I wish you nothing but massive success and I can't wait to have you come back for round two, where we have that other episode that we've already know we need to have now. So. So thanks, brother, and happy selling M. And good luck, man.

Speaker B: Thanks, Rob. Take care.

Speaker A: Hey, everyone. Welcome to another so what portion of the sales leadership podcast where we break down that interview and we ask ourselves, why did that conversation even matter? But first, 2025 is wrapping up, and teams everywhere are planning their launch into 2026. Because we all know the better you start, the better you'll finish. And for most companies, that means leadership retreats and sales kickoff events. And if you're planning one of those or both, don't just look for a speaker. You want a catalyst. When I partner with teams, we design experiences that do three things. Things number one is entertain. It's got to be fun, and I want to be a highlight for that entire event. Number two, educate. We got to challenge how people think and help them see their opportunities through a new lens so it's not just more of the same old stuff. Just doing more of it. And number three, we got to motivate. I want every single person in your room saying, yeah, that makes sense. I can do that. But more important, I want to, and I will. So as you think about who you're going to have come speak your sko, I hope you'll think of me. I don't show up just to speak. I show up to ignite. Together your company and myself. We can create a custom experience that challenges thinking, shifts leadership, and accelerates performance. I believe every SKO should build momentum that powers the best year in company history. So let's make that happen. Reach out. I'd love to find out if I can help your team launch into something elite. Now let's get back to our convo with Rob. Coaching could be the most important but also the least understood skill for Any leader, but especially a sales leader, the data keeps coming out. And for the last 20 years, the impact on coaching, on performance has just not gotten better. It's the number one catalyst for performance, and it continues to be the thing that reps say that leaders suck at the most. Listen. For the last two decades, sales leaders have self identified as awesome. I'm doing my air quotes for those of you watching on the YouTube channel. They're awesome at coaching. They self identify that this is something I've got on lock. I don't need any help with coaching. It's one of my superpowers. But when the people that work for these leaders are asked, how good is the coaching that you're receiving? Those same reps that work for the leaders who 87% of the time self identify as elite at coaching, well, get ready to write this one down. 87% of the leaders in the sales world self identify as a great coach. But 83% of the reps who work for those leaders, they say that coaching either isn't happening or what the leader says is coaching is not helping. There is a massive disconnect right now. Massive. It's a chasm. Okay? And my favorite study around this was done by Bain, a, uh, company that I, I trust implicitly. They ask salespeople all around the world if you had to pay for one hour of coaching with your leader, the one that you currently report to. Not one I get to go choose from somewhere else, but the one that I got to report to right now. If I had to pay out of my own pocket for one hour of her or his time, how much would you be willing to pay? How much value do you put on that one hour of one on one time with your leader? And the answer should concern you whether you participated in the study or not. It's a big enough study and it has far wide enough, uh, implications that you should take this one seriously. Because the answer is concerning. Over 50% of the salesperson said not even a buck, not $1am I willing to open up and pay for the one on one with my leader. And I'm not making it up. I'm serious. The study isn't hard to find. It's easy to find and you should go find it and look at it. I have a copy of it in sales Leadership, Leadership United. If you want to see it there. If you want to just get me, have me send you one, send me an email. I'm robjetpg.com okay, uh, I will gladly send you the study so While there's a massive disconnect for salespeople and sales leaders on, um, what makes for good coaching, there is an epidemic of salespeople who do not value their leader as a coach. And this is a big deal. And that's why the work Rob's doing at GTAM and so important. Listen, I've seen the work they're doing. I've seen the tools and the work is good. The tools are great. You ought to check them out because first of all, there's not that many great coaching tools and this is one. But more important than that, here's how I see it. Here's my point of view. I meet someone every day who calls herself or himself a quote again, data driven leader. We have more data right now than we've ever had. Most m of the clients that the coaches that work here at the Jepsen Performance Group work with are large companies. They're market leaders. Names you know and know well. And every week we are introduced to a new report. A new way of skinning the cat, a new way of looking at the data, a new kind of dashboard, new data and new ways of twisting it around and having it be more insightful. Here's what I've learned. The data doesn't lie, but it also never ever tells the entire story. Data does give you content and we have way too many content oriented coaches. That's why so many reps feel like the leaders who coach them miss the mark. Here's why. We use data to ambush people to beat them with it. And so often it leads to people who play games with data or avoid it, making it so data is about compliance and telling the story of where we've been rather than using it to create a map or a GPS or my very favorite, a well lit pathway into the future. And this approach leads to what uh, Rob talked about very articulately, a fear based approach to coaching. That comes when we have activity oriented coaching. Uh, it makes us think in terms of compliance. And listen, a manager can use coaching to get more activities for sure. I see happen all the time. But when we do, we're missing the point. Coaching should be the art of creating new possibilities. And when that happens, we start having coaching like Rob shared could happen and more importantly should happen. A culture of coaching is a culture of creating new possibilities, not more activities. Listen, I learned this really well. I used to run a, uh, uh, coaching technology company called Exploit and we had some of the greatest customers in the world and people loved our tech and what they learned was the tech didn't solve the problem. One of the things when people invest in tech, they want the tech to just solve the problem. Well, what they learned was there still is going to be an art of how we interact with people. So I can have tech give me all the things to talk about, but I better run a one on one in a way that leads to behavior change. I was talking about this with one of my partners here at jpg, uh, with one of our large customers. We just kicked off. They wanted to have a lot of group activities that we were doing on group training that is supported by one on one coaching. But they wanted most of our work to be around helping those people continue to become better coaches and have coaches that led to mindset changes that ultimately led to behavior changes. And that's why you have to be a context oriented coach, not a content oriented coach. Okay, and so, uh, I'm going to say it again. Having a culture of coaching like Rob talked about, really a culture of creating new possibilities rather than more activities. So if you want to be an elite leader, you got to crack that coaching code. And so uh, I want you, as you listen to this, to be really honest with yourself. Is your coaching about content and data or is it about context and situations? I first heard this distinction when I was listening to Gary Vaynerchuk. If you don't listen to Gary V. I'm a fan of Gary Vee. I heard it from him like over 10 years years ago. So I want to give credit where it's due. And uh, he was talking about social media. He talked about how many people were focused on the content without nailing the context. And I really liked that as it applied to social media and as I was thinking about what that meant for coaching, it changed a lot of things for me. And I find that the same thing is true. As a performance coach, are you a contextual coach, one who connects and doesn't just. Correct. Are you a leader who is able to have, have influence by helping each member of the team choose growth and not just more of the grind? Those leaders are rare. The best coaches in my experience are the contextual ones. Those who know what a rep is chasing, those who know where and how that rep is trying to grow. And more important, why? What happens if they do, what happens if they don't? They are part of the chase the team is having. Uh, and not just the scorekeeper. And if you choose to become a more contextual leader, the tools you have and the tools that help you with content and data guess what? Those become infinitely more valuable. And then when that happens, you as a leader, create infinitely more impact. So, Rob, my guy, thanks for joining me. I appreciate you. Thank you for your insights and your fantastic approach to leadership. Your approach to creating a, uh, true culture of coaching rather than a culture of fear is something that I think we need to talk about more, something we need to shine light on more, and something we need to help leaders all around the world get better at. I want to challenge you to be looking yourself in the mirror. 87% of the time. Leaders self identify as I got this. But eight times out of 10, the people who report to you say, as Lee Corso of ESPN would say, not so fast, my friend. Don't fall victim of your own.