From Music to Tech: Thomas Baseley's Journey and Lessons - RevOps S03E09

Speaker A: Hey everyone, Jill Qureshi here with another episode of RevOps 500. Today I am super stoked to be talking to a principal software engineer at HubSpot, Thomas Bazley. Welcome to WearBox 500, man.

Speaker B: Thank you. Very happy to be here. I'm actually less solutions engineer, so I don't use. But it's okay.

Speaker A: Anyways, Thomas, what is your biggest mistake?

Speaker B: Yeah, uh, so really, really good question. There's a lot of obviously, um, personal mistakes that I could put maybe from a professional level. Uh, before I got into tech, I was actually working in kind of the music industry or in and around the music industry. So I was living in the UK still. Um, and uh, I was initially in a band when I still had some hair. Obviously that's a long time ago now, unfortunately. Sniff. Um, and then I did various kind of bits and pieces afterwards trying to break into the music industry. And I would say maybe the first mistake that comes into my mind is for a very short period of time I was. I was kind of managing an artist I'd kind of found in a. Found in a kind of grotty London pub. And um. And I would say the mistake I made was, uh, I worked with this guy basically for free for quite a long time, put a lot of time and effort and um, and obviously finance as well because I was kind of financing everything to kind of, you know, get him to break through. And um. Ah. And uh, unfortunately the mistake I made was I didn't put any kind of contract in place to kind of protect myself. Um, and the obvious, it seems obvious to me now, but the obvious thing happened was that, you know, somebody came along with a lot of money and uh, and basically, uh, I was no longer in the picture and I had absolutely no kind of contract, uh, in place, uh, at that point, um, you know, to kind of claim anything back or protect my position in any way possible. So I would say the big mistake that I made was maybe putting too much trust in people and thinking that that was enough, you know, and that, you know, everything that I'd put in up until then was enough basically to protect myself and that, you know, even though we were, we were quite good friends, that I was not, you know, there was no way that I was going to get screwed over. And maybe in looking back on it now, I see how naive it was unfortunately, and the world doesn't work that way. And um, I would definitely recommend, if anyone's listening to this, even if you wanted to launch a business or go in, do anything like that, with friends, I would always say, really try and protect yourself and make sure there's some kind of agreement, some kind of contract in place just in case anything goes wrong. Things can change very quickly, especially when there's money involved. And the second thing maybe comes into mind, and this is maybe like uh, from the start of my tech career especially M was around, um, maybe when you're applying for your first job as a junior, um, and you're going into kind of that ah, interview process. Very much in terms of the mindset, um, I was very much in this maybe slightly introverted point of view and uh, introverted mindset and I had very little confidence in myself, myself. And um, and I would say that, um, I had a lot of imposter syndrome, ah, at that stage in my career. Um, and I was kind of not feeling like. I was feeling like there was an imbalance in power when you're kind of going into an interview. And I always did very, very poorly in interviews because I was kind of intimidated and I was, I was not feeling, you know, I wasn't really feeling like I was. It was like a mutual, um, a mutual kind of agreement that was being put in place. And I remember that I, uh, somebody gave me some really, really good, good advice and they said to think of it very, um, much, uh, you know, like a mutual, um, a mutual kind of situation where you're bringing something to the table, they're bringing something to the table and you're, you know, it's very much like a business agreement and, and to, to give yourself a lot more, more confidence. And it's very much you are there because you have to prove yourself and you're going to be bringing value to that company. And you know, in terms of like an ROI calculation, if you will, you know, the, the investment that you're going to be bringing back to them, the return on investment is going to be far greater than, you know, the kind of salary that they're going to be offering you at, uh, that stage in your career. So I would say that's a, that was quite a big mistake because up until that point I was kind of maybe seeing, seeing it from the wrong perspective and it was probably not giving me, uh, you know, not putting me in the best light in an interview kind of scenario.

Speaker A: Okay, so you've got, you got two mistakes on the table. Uh, the first one being that, you know, you, you worked with a friend of yours and they got a record deal, I guess, or they, they made it big. And you know, there was no uh, no return for you for, for that or other people came with a. And they kind of split the two of you up. Uh, that's, that's pretty entertaining. I mean, I got that. I love to unpack. Um, that one, the other one is that, you know, you're, you seem like you're, you were timid, you know, in, in doing uh, interviews and knowing your worth or, or whatever. Because.

Speaker B: Exactly.

Speaker A: These people are doing you a favor by hiring you. You know, it's kind of like both ways. Helping them, they're helping you. It's mutually beneficial. Yeah, I see, I see those as kind of related almost.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: I mean, where maybe your friend, you know, you're doing him a favor but, you know, or you know, he needs doing you a favor. Right. But maybe you didn't have that, that contract in place that you feel like maybe you needed. Maybe did, did that, did that. I'm um, guessing the first mistake happened like the music would happen first and then the, then the, then the technic, the tech career one happened second. Did you, did you draw back on that first one at all when you were going through this whole thing and having, when you had the information that you coming your way or what?

Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. I would say like, I think you're absolutely right. Those two things are very much created. And I guess it's around like self worth and like how much you value your contribution. And I think I've always been somebody that's kind of gone that extra mile. And, and, and I would say maybe, you know, one thing, you know, I know a lot of people work like that, but uh, one thing to be aware of is there's always people that kind of like take advantage of that. Unfortunately, that's, that's kind of the world we live in. And so, um, you know, if you are one of those kind of people, you need to make sure that you know you're not being taken advantage of and you, but mostly, you know, most importantly that you know your self worth, you know the value that you can bring some, you know, to a situation, to a business, to um, you know, it can be applied to any number of situations and that you get your just worse out of that. Yeah.

Speaker A: So how do you, how do you, uh, obviously this is like a bad habit of yours, maybe that you don't, you don't necessarily value your contributions to society or to your job or whatever. I mean, like, how do you, how do you challenge it? How do you make sure to remind yourself of your, you know, of your, of your value that you have.

Speaker B: I think it's a continuing process and I don't think it's, you know, uniquely to, to me, it's. For anyone that's kind of growing in their career, especially, you know, you're trying to work your way up and, and it is like a constant learning process, isn't it? You know, it's, uh, it's, it's something, you know, that's complete. You know, it evolves, uh, every single day. Um, but I think it's always, you know, really, really important to look back and look at where you came from. From. Um, that's really, really important. You know, it's not just about looking forward, but, you know, taking the time to look back at where you've came. You know, you've come from the different mistakes that you've made along the way. The different people as well. You know, not, not just negatives, but also positives. Different. There's, there's definitely, ah, key moments in, you know, in your, in your life or your career that, that, that can, can change everything. They're like a balance, you know, and, and everything, you know, almost like hinges on that moment. And that was definitely the case in, in my perspective. So it's also really, really good as well to look back at those key moments and remind yourself of those and, and almost use that as almost like a, a driver and motivation going forward. Yeah.

Speaker A: And, and can you, can you relate anything from your time in the music industry to your job in solutions engineering at HubSpot at all? Or is there any carryover? Any sort of. You're smiling and laughing, so I'm guessing there's a good story.

Speaker B: Oh, there's lots of good stories. I don't know if there's many that I can actually tell that. Uh, um, you know, um, I think we were all, you know, it was a great experience. We didn't really make any money. Um, but it was, you know, we were all young, you know, fresh out of college and um, kind of raring to go. Raring to kind of see the world and, you know, and experience things and meet people. I would definitely say that it was more of like a relationship side of things. So my job is very much like customer facing now. So, um, not just customer facing, actually, more, you know, in general. It's also, you know, working with our like, partner network, our kind of HR integrator network, doing marketing events.

Speaker A: Ah.

Speaker B: But also mostly like meeting prospects, meeting customers and speaking with them on a daily basis, understanding how they operate. And I would say maybe the relationship side of things and the communication side is obviously fundamental to that role. So I would say that that's something that I could definitely draw from in terms of the music industry. Um, it is about creating your network, creating your brand, ah, as musicians. And that's more and more the case now because obviously the music industry has evolved so much that it's very much, um, for a lot of bands, you know, they have to do it on their own for a lot of the time. They have to construct, you know, that fan base ready to go before like a record label will come along or a manager will come along and pick them up. It's very much like, you know, you, you especially with obviously like social media now, you know, you need to create that uh, brand and that buzz around you, um, and what you're doing. And I would guess, I guess you know, you could link that as well to what I'm doing now. It's definitely something that I was not comfortable with at the start, kind of networking and going out there and meeting people. Obviously, like I said, like I'm quite an introverted person normally. Um, so that's definitely something I had to, had to work on and it is very, very important in the, in the music industry. Yeah, definitely.

Speaker A: So, you know, you, yeah. And look, this is common amongst engineers of all kinds, right? They do a lot of the heavy lifting but they don't necessarily get the credit. They're usually, maybe they're self proclaimed introverts for sure and they've definitely felt like they don't always get their worth. So I mean you have a lot of those traits in your story and in even what you're telling me here. And I guess like what would your message be to engineers like that who feel like, you know what, I'm not a salesperson, not a marketing person, but I built this integration or I, I helped, you know, I was on the ground with this person while they were coming up. You know, like how do you, how do you, how do you, how do, how do people benefit from, from your story? What do you tell those, what would you tell a room full of those people if you had it in front of you?

Speaker B: Um, I mean, I think there's, there's, it depends really about the motivation that got them into the job. I was not, I'm not really like, you know, particularly looking. You know, I would say maybe like the sales engineers, obviously they play quite a vital role in, in like the sales process, uh, in, you know, in, in major tech companies and we're kind of almost, I would Say maybe if I'm gonna, you know, uh, blow my own trumpet a little bit, I would say maybe we were almost like the unsung heroes of the, of the sales process in some ways. Yeah. And, and I would say that, um, it again, it depends really what, what motivates you. Um, what, you know, I, I, what I get out of the job really is mainly like the satisfaction that, you know, you've especially, you know, like, like the title says itself, like you found the solution, you've unlocked the solution, or you've understood, you know, the business pain that a company is currently having, you know, uh, or um, whether there is a blockage and resolving that issue can completely change the trajectory of a business. Increasing growth, uh, getting rid of the barriers between different teams internally. And so I guess me on a personal perspective, I kind of like those Eureka moments where um, especially our role as solutions engineers in the sales cycle, if, if there's people that are listening that don't know what our role is, we come kind of like the technical consultant that um, basically, um, works alongside, um, the actual account executive when they're selling a contract. And we're the ones that are kind of doing all of the scoping, the discovery, um, and ultimately the Eureka moment, as I would put it, is basically like a technical demo where you basically put in place and you prove everything that you've understood, all of the kind of uh, pain that you've discovered, um, and you fit basically that current pain to basically the value that a solution, uh, like HubSpot could uh, bring that business and you kind of um, make that link and almost like show them a vision of the future. And I really, uh, as somebody, like I said at the start, that goes that extra mile, I really like that eureka. A moment where maybe we go a little bit too far in the personalization sometimes. But you know, somebody, you know, you've got a number of people obviously on the call and you kind of get that wow moment. And for me that's very, very, uh, you know, that brings me a lot of value, you know, and a lot of satisfaction in that moment. So yeah, I would say to those people, you know, it's not, you know, it depends what you came into the job for. And you can make a massive, massive difference without, um, forcibly somebody coming to you and saying thank you or do you get a massive paycheck at the end of the month. Uh, but you're often a vital cog, uh, in that process.

Speaker A: So demos are a really big part of your story. Demos in music demos, in solutions engineering. It's funny how that works for you, isn't it? You know, you've got, you know, like, uh, I'm sure, I'm sure when you're in music, you probably send demos out. You probably have a demo reel. We were promoting demo reels. And now in technology, I mean, you're giving, you know, sales demos. Totally different kind of demo, but, you know, less. And I'm sure you, you've seen Eureka moments in both the music industry and the tech industry. How, uh, how are they the same? How are they different?

Speaker B: I would say. Oh, you could also draw the line with like performing on stage as well, because oftentimes it is, it is a bit like this, that same kind of process. Um, and you know, for these big moments, like these big demos, sometimes you only get one shot. Yes, M. And that's the same, you know, when you're in a young band starting out. Often, you know, you'll be doing showcases, for example, for, you know, major labels or whatever or, or big festival performances, and you only really get one shot. Those. In those kind of situations, you're in front of, you know, um, an audience that hard to impress sometimes. And, um, you could definitely draw parallels with, uh, doing demos. Oftentimes you only get one shot and you have to be on your game. You have to perform, uh, and you have to say the right things at the right moments. And it is a lot of the time about key moments. So, yeah, I would definitely say there's massive parallels between the two.

Speaker A: So obviously when you're, when you're performing on a stage, you know, there's, there's like, you know, there's like punch lines, there's timing, there's, you know, there's everything right. Like, there's certain things you do, certain things you say to kind of rile the audience up and whatever, I'm sure. And then now a sales demo is very different thing. Right? So, I mean, but it's, but, but over the time, have you, have you learned from your demos? Okay, what, when, when you feel like the Eureka moment is going to come, do you time it? Do you kind of do, do you have pacing? Do you, do you get that, do you get that detailed in it? Or is it just much more off the cuff and casual?

Speaker B: Um, it's a really, really good question. I would say that maybe on. I've planned things out in advance and you know, it does take quite a lot of planning. Um, uh, you generally know, like, what are the key features that are going to really get the Best reaction. But I would say that a lot like, you know, when you're performing on stage, there's an element of unpredictability around it and things can change. Um, maybe there'll be somebody present that uh, can throw a spanner in the works or change the trajectory of what you've planned. And so you need to kind of adapt around that. And so there is an element as well of kind of spontaneity and having to adapt in certain situations and maybe the areas or the key moments that you fought, we're going to land, you know, a, ah, punch, so to speak. Maybe don't. And so, um. Yeah, no, that's part of, I guess the, the, the fun of it really in some ways, um, is, is that kind of unpredictability around it and being somebody that's able to adapt to those kind of situations. But I would say that's definitely very, very much. I don't know if there's any musicians listening, but it does, does feel very, very similar to, you know, to, to performing on stage. And sometimes, you know, you have to deal with difficult, difficult situations. I know I can definitely, uh, I can definitely tell you a few stories around that. But, uh. Yeah, no, it's definitely, it's definitely very similar.

Speaker A: Yeah, so, so tell me a few stories about that. Like, I mean, just like maybe some, maybe let's start with like the. In like a sales demo. Like when, when has. When have you been expecting applause and got tomatoes or something like that? What's. You're kind of nodding and shaking your heads like, what do you, what do you got?

Speaker B: There's so many, so many stories. I mean, obviously from a technical perspective, you know, now post Covid, um, we're doing more and more, obviously more and more meetings online, like we're doing right here right now. And um. And so with that comes certain elements of comfort. You know, having that kind of barrier between you and them. It kind of in some ways takes some of the stress away and gives you a certain, uh, comfort in terms of like your surroundings and how you can kind of plan for certain eventualities and certain situations. But obviously with technology, you know, technology can go wrong. Um, and so I guess you have to bear that in mind. So it's happened to me a lot, you know, a few times that we've had technical issues, power cuts or, you know, um, the usual stuff like people can't connect or people can't turn their audio on. You know, the classics.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: Um, and then obviously we do as well, obviously, like, um, um Demos in person as well, presentations in person. And with that as well comes another complexity. We've had a number of times where you turn up to some swanky office somewhere, um, and, oh, there's no WI FI network, um, or the Internet's a bit slow today. You don't know what's happening. And sometimes you kind of feel like, is that happening on purpose? Is this to challenge us? You know, uh, to keep us on our toes and see how we react? You know, but again, it's. You have to be one of those kind of people that adapts to things like that. And, um, and, uh, you know, and is able to, you know, to get, to get some, you know, some kind of result out at the end of it. Um, yeah.

Speaker A: So the first time you're on site, so I didn't realize that a HubSpot does like the solutions. You actually will go on site and do these demos in person. That's all remote. Incredible that they do. And when, when, what was that? Like, the first time you went into an office and situation normal all messed up, you know, like there was just like, you know, WI fi wasn't working or something like that actually happened. How did you react? What did you change? Did you get the deal? You know, that kind of stuff?

Speaker B: Yeah, like, um, a lot of sweating, a lot of panicking. Um, and obviously you're not, you're not alone in these kind of situations, which makes it, which makes it quite good. So normally, you know, you've got your, your AE next to you that can kind of filibuster away and kind of win you some time. Uh, you know, maybe you've got a couple of other technical people that are on your side and you're kind of working through, uh, problems and you usually, usually you can find some kind of workaround. Um, I would say, like, just maybe on a more general perspective, I know this may be people that are watching that maybe, you know, working in tech companies or wanting to work in tech companies. And I would say it's quite, it's quite an interesting, um, exercise in general in that we've, a lot of us have come through, obviously, like the COVID period and are used to now this comfortable situation of working from home. But when you do have to go into these kind of physical meetings, that as well, is something that doesn't necessarily come naturally anymore. And it's maybe not something that we're trained to do maybe in our onboarding. Um, and that as well. It's a really, really interesting thing that I feel like I'M kind of getting better at it. But it's um, going back to that uh, this is how we're all working previously, shaking people's hand, looking people in the eye, but also as sales engineers performing in that kind of situation, um, and being able to um, interact and um, uh, you know, with stakeholders. For example, maybe there's going to be some people, you know, present in the room, some people are going to be in, you know, uh, on the Internet, you know, on teams or whatever and being able to, you know, um, have that kind of interaction with every single person in the room like you would, you know, comfortably from your uh, from your desk at home on a, ah, you know, on a zoom meeting is something that you know, doesn't necessarily come naturally anymore. You know, now we've been through, you know, the pandemic and everything like that, so that's something you kind of have to relearn. And it's definitely something that doesn't necessarily come, come uh, easily anymore.

Speaker A: And, and in, in the. In the music side of it, what like the most um. The most ridiculous thing that's that. That you kind of um, seen on stage, you know, you bombed on stage or something like that. What's like the. Where Eureka moment was coming, you felt like. And it just kind of, you know what, it went the opposite direction.

Speaker B: Yeah, that's a really, really good question. I think one of the experiences um, that comes to mind I think when you're in an up kind of a band that's trying to break through, you have obviously it's a bit like waves, so you have ups and a lot of downs, A lot of downs. But you know, you have moments where you think, you know, everything's going your way and it's going to happen and then you know, uh, the next, uh. Not at all. And one thing that I really remember is uh, we were basically going around and touring in the back of like some kind of pickup truck kind of um, van, uh, that we bought cheap off like the local postal service. Um, and the heating has stopped working a long time ago, I remember. And uh, uh, it was a bit of a nightmare to keep on the road. But anyway, we were doing a number of gigs, uh, concerts in a row. And we played a ah, really really cool gig, uh, in Bristol in the uk. Really, really cool city. I don't know if you've ever been there, but very, very arty, very you know, really, really interesting um, history, uh, as well in the city. And we played this crazy gig on this kind of barge, like A massive, um, uh, boat in the, in the, in the kind of port there, the harbor that they kind of converted into a gig venue. So it was probably like, not massive, you know, probably like a, you know, club venue, about 300, 400 people, but it was completely rammed. And uh, we had this incredible reaction. You know, we all got the classic, you know, photos at the end of the gig like this. And we all went away thinking, oh my gosh, it's, you know, it's finally happening. And the next day we were programmed to play this kind of festival in near Cambridge in the uk. And um, it was a baking hot day, which is obviously very, very rare in the uk, but, uh, really, really hot. And we were playing in this huge tent and I remember everybody, nobody wanted to come in the tent because it was so hot. And we played to two people and one, ah, naked child who was, who was dancing around. Um, and, and we definitely felt like, you know, uh, you know, it's just one day, you know, you're, you're top of the hill the next day, uh, you know. Yeah, that was the first one that comes to mind. It was just so ridiculous.

Speaker A: So there's more band members in the world audience, is that kind of right?

Speaker B: Oh, by far, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker A: What kind of band was. It was like rock band, Brit pop band. What kind of, what kind of band

Speaker B: are we talking about? No, it was unfortunately, uh, it was not as co. Cool as that. It was like an electro pop band. Electro pop. But it was, it was, it was very much in the part of kind of like an era in the UK where there's a lot of, of kind of electro dance music and this kind of crossover between electronic music and maybe more traditional, like indie music. Um, so, so, uh, so we were definitely part of almost like a, a kind of musical trend in the uk. But it's definitely the, the images are uh, you know, in the videos. Uh, you know, they, they, they make a lot of people laugh now. And it's good. I've got a few good anecdotes for uh, for, you know, nights out and stuff like that. So that's good.

Speaker A: More, more performers and audience. I don't know. That's like, that's a, that's definitely not something most people have experienced. And what's that, what does that feel like? I mean, you know, what's that, what's that like, you know, take cut me through the thoughts, the emotions of your teammates, you, all that kind of stuff.

Speaker B: Yeah, no, I think, um, again, I think it's quite good in a way because I think it brings almost like, um, you know, it hardens your skin in some ways, and it kind of, um. In the end, I think when you're in this kind of band, in this kind of situation, you need to kind of adapt to lots and lots of different situations. And it is quite a classic thing, isn't it, to hear that, you know, a band's playing to, uh, maybe one person, the barmaid, and even the barmaid's not listening, you know. So, um, I think. I think it's quite good. You know, it's a good life lesson in some ways, you know, to kind of harden your skin and, you know, when you go through situations like that. So, um, maybe it's not. Maybe it's not a bad thing and.

Speaker A: Have you ever been in a room in HubSpot, virtual or in person, when there's more people on the HubSpot team than there were on the. On the Buying Tide or anything like that, or. No. That you could relate?

Speaker B: Yeah, no, it's a good question. I don't think so. No, normally we. I don't think it's really like our, uh, philosophy to be, you know, compared to maybe other, uh, other technological, um, you know, competitors that I won't name. It's not really our philosophy to come, you know, with like, you know, hundreds of people on a, you know, into a meeting and kind of. Kind of feel like you're trying to intimidate them. It's not really our philosophy. We're a little bit more human in that respect. So I can't say that, um, you know, we've ever outnumbered the number of people on. On the prospect side of things. It's usually. No, it's usually quite a good balance.

Speaker A: Pretty even. Okay. And what is like the, uh. So, I mean, we talked a lot about mistakes here, you know, like. Yeah, so what. What in the what in. Tell me something like you're really, really proud of that you had in your musical career. Like, maybe when you're. When you were. When you were serving as an agent or. And maybe something, uh, In. As a solutions, and you're kind of like, what is your. What is something you're particularly proud of? Like one of your most amazing Eureka moments.

Speaker B: Yeah, that's really good question. Um, in terms of, like, musical career, I would say. Well, I don't know. I wouldn't even call it a career, really. Making it bigger than it is. Um, my musical, uh, period, let's say, uh, we achieved some things like, you Know, going on national radio. Radio 1, which was really, really cool. Yeah, yeah, Radio 1 in the UK and we were on, um, TV, like on the BBC and on Channel 4. So that was cool, you know, because, you know, at least your, your family can tune in and watch you or whatever and you know, your friends from home. Um, so that was like quite a proud moment. Um, and then from, from, um, from like a tech point of view, I would just say, like, for example, I actually currently work in the French market, so I live in France. I've been living in France for like 14 years now. And when I first moved over here, I spoke literally, you know, a couple of words and I've had a couple kind of work my way up from there and, and you know, it's taken a long time. And now, now I'm kind of at the position where I'm, I'm kind of working with some of our biggest prospects, um, and clients, uh, on the, on what we call like the corporate segment, so the, the uh, equivalent of like enterprise clients. So I would say that, you know, in terms of pride, I would just say that, like, that for example, I would, you know, being, you know, looking back and seeing this kind of route and, and seeing where I am now compared to where I was maybe like 10 years ago and you know, the kind of complex, uh, projects that we're now, you know, working with and um, uh, you know, and having, you know, personal, personal kind of success as well and being recognized has definitely been like, you know, massive achievement for me.

Speaker A: Yeah. So just so, just so everybody's clear, you are, you're from the uk, but you work as a solutions engineer at uh, for HubSpot in France. Does that mean all of your presentations are in French? And. Wow. And how long have you been speaking French for? I mean, like, or learning French, developing a command of French.

Speaker B: Um, so I would say. So obviously, like I moved over here in like 20, 2011 and I would say that things started to click, ah, after maybe three or four years. Um, but in terms of fluency, I can't really put like my finger on like when exactly. I would say like I was fluent. But yeah, I think in terms of like talking French with confidence, you know, I, um, would say maybe it's been seven or eight years now, like fully confident, uh, work. You know, I've been working obviously all through that period and that obviously really, really helped because it's not just about the languages as well. It's maybe about customs and about the way people do business. Um, you know, Etiquette and um, you know, going back to, for example, like formal business meetings and stuff like that. There's definitely a completely new way of doing business compared to maybe, obviously the UK or the US or other countries, maybe China and Japan. Everyone does things in a different way. So it's kind of like having to restart from zero really, and relearn a whole new way of working and communicating. Um, that's taken quite a lot of time. Um, but yeah, no, I'm really, really happy, uh, about, you know, where, where we're at now and, and um, you know, the different projects I'm working are really, really interesting. I would say that, you know, it's, it's kind of an advantage as well to work with like, for like an American tech company with an outlet in France and you know, big footprint in Europe. Um, it's, it's, it's, you know, we're working with a lot of international companies as well. So the fact that you can kind of bring all of that, you know, your experience and maybe, um, obviously the language and everything like that to the table as well, and working on those kind of, those kind of projects is, is probably, uh, you know, quite a big positive.

Speaker A: And what are some of, like the, uh. So let's talk about those a little bit. What are some of the, the exciting things that you're seeing now as a lead solution engineer at HubSpot? What are some of the exciting things that you're seeing that you're working on that prospects are asking you about? What are some of the great stories under the hood?

Speaker B: Yeah, definitely. I mean, everyone's, uh, you know, everyone's talking about it obviously, like, um, ajantic platform agents, um, and, and what we're capable of doing now with agents is, is probably the, one of the biggest things. Um, and the way that people are, you know, the, the impact that's happening on, on having, on businesses now is, is, is just, you know, monumental. Um, and obviously I would, you know, we can go back to the agent side of things, but I would also say, you know, the way that people are looking, searching for businesses, searching for certain type of products as well with artificial intelligence is obviously completely changing the market. Um, and especially from a marketing side of things. You know, marketers are now having to completely rethink their strategy and kind of adapt to this new way of, um, working and making sure that their company, their brand is showing up in those responses. So there is a massive shift in the industry. And I would say that that's probably. Those are the Best, definitely the two major subjects at the minute and that's

Speaker A: kind of what HubSpot is really honing in on as well. Right. Those areas are doubling down on it and that's, that's going to push into the solutions, engineering roles too. I mean they're going to have to know those things, how they work. And does that, does it ever get too much for you? Like all, all of the updates that they, that that gets pushed in a product like HubSpot or how do you keep up with what, what is your, what's your secret? Because we have no problem, we have no issue that we love partners keeping up what they do all the time. So I know how it is for you.

Speaker B: Uh, yeah, it's really, really good question. I would say definitely you have to be incredibly adaptable in this role and you have to be on your game, you have to keep up. And like you said, the product evolves constantly. Um, but as does the market and the expectations of shareholders now and everything else, things are moving so quickly. I think it's not just a question of our product which is obviously already, like you said, quite a challenge to keep up with all of the updates, the new features, um, you know, how to sell those features, how to value sell those features and put a business case together, that's a big challenge. Um, but also you know, in terms of the market in general and seeing you know where, everywhere, where things are moving to and trying to keep up with the pace of uh, and the demands of like, you know, not just businesses but the people they're selling to, that is a massive, massive challenge. So I would say I take quite a lot of time, I usually block quite a lot of time in my week. Not just to understand uh, the new things that are coming out with the product, but also kind of test them and um, if I can talk to the product managers here at HubSpot and uh, get more information and try and get ahead of the game as well before updates are coming out into a beta release or whatever. But really try and anticipate those then that can really help.

Speaker A: And what resources do you use? Look, the product team is not available to all of us non HubSpot folks. So what resources specifically do you use to stay sharp that maybe the rest of us can use?

Speaker B: Um, basically with HubSpot you've got the possibility to activate all of the betas in advance. So we go through different beta to beta phases. So you can basically directly uh, from your portal you can basically like self serve, see all of the different releases that are coming out, but then also activate those manually and start testing them out straight away. So I would say that's really, really good way as well. Obviously it's great for us because we get that data and see, you know, how, how much things are being used and you know, what's, what things could be maybe improved on, maybe a UX UI perspective. But it's. Yeah, but it's really, really good as well for customers to maybe get ahead of the curve, um, and start testing out these new features and seeing how they can integrate them into their marketing or their sales campaigns.

Speaker A: Well, I mean Thomas, where can people learn more about you?

Speaker B: Um, I try to be as active as possible, like on LinkedIn, so try to keep things um, fresh and talk about new updates as well. But I also uh, participate in a lot of marketing events mainly here in France. So, um, usually organized by like different partners all around France. Um, I'm doing a conference in Lyon for example in France, uh, at the end of the month, uh, doing a keynote speech. So, um, yeah, love talking about the products, but also, you know, any, anybody who wants to kind of get in touch and interact. You know, I always respond to uh, messages on LinkedIn, so LinkedIn is probably the best place to, to hit me up. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker A: I mean, look Thomas, it's not every day that, you know, we, well, first of all, the way we, we talked to is like, like, uh, like a solutions engineer. I think you're the first one we've ever had on the, on the show. So that's big. And to talk to somebody who's actually been on the BBC before, I mean it's, it's a very rare combination. So I appreciate you coming on and jamming with us in this capacity today.

Speaker B: No problem. It's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you.

Speaker A: Yeah. So everybody, if you liked it, get a hold of Thomas saw on LinkedIn, uh, hit him up, uh, for anything, music advice, HubSpot, anything you want. He can probably help you out with it. This has been another episode of Brabos 500 everybody, and thanks for listening. Take care.