Securing long-term success with value-led branding

Ann Rimmer: Welcome to episode four of the Real B2B Brand Stories podcast. I'm Ann Rimmer, Founder and chief brand Strategist at Propelled. We specialize in brand positioning for B2B companies and this series features B2B companies doing things differently. I'm delighted to welcome James Bracewell, Director of Partner Success at GA Pet Foods. Founded from a working farm in Lancashire by James Father Roger, G.A. has grown into an international manufacturer of premium dry pet food with a turnover of 150 million pounds, employing 600 colleagues who are delivering and making 50,000 tonnes of kibble to 50 countries worldwide from their base in Lancashire. GA is an exceptional business dedicated to helping their customers, who they refer to as partners, differentiate and grow their businesses with their own brand pet food. James shares the many ways they educate and support their 3000 partners globally, why they choose to do things differently than their competitors, the impact of private equity on the pet sector and the key to success being people and long term value led partnerships. I recommend also watching on YouTube as James shares some of the beautiful printed documents that they've created in order to educate partners and colleagues alike. Uh, this is a packed episode so do gift yourself a quiet space and enjoy. Good morning James. Welcome to the podcast.

James Bracewell: Good morning Anne. Thank you very much indeed for having me.

Ann Rimmer: It's good to have you. Thank you. So I've got a first question for you which would be really good just for you to um, tell us a little bit about your role and um, GA's place in the pet sector and the size of the business. For those listening who don't know GA plays, if you would, certainly.

James Bracewell: So GA Pet Food, uh, we're a family business located in Lancashire, uh, between Preston and Southport. Um, we uh, have been, well historically we were farmers, um, and we've been manufacturing pet food um, since 1992 really. Uh, started as a farm diversification project, um, and we only make dry pet food, so primarily for dogs and cats and we sell it uh, as a white label uh, product. So we don't have our own brand, um, we manufacture for other brands. My role in the business is as partner success director. Um, so it's really I suppose an extension of being sales director um, and incorporating um, other sort of the service teams towards sales as well as obviously the sales, uh, colleagues.

Ann Rimmer: Perfect. Um, and when we talk about customers, I know GA's terminology is partners, isn't it? So that's what we mean when we say partners, we're talking about customers. So um, and customers or partners are ah, these days, small independent pet Shops in the main, aren't they? And some online retailers as well.

James Bracewell: Yeah, no, absolutely. So, um, partners. Yeah, it's a really important word that you refer to it um is how we refer to our customers. I think customers is very transactional. Uh, where um. Ah we do truly believe that it is a partnership. Uh, our partners are entrusting their businesses, their livelihoods uh with us. Um and to make sure that we can really grow together uh and help support them to be a success. Um, the business historically always made for large um multinational brands. Um but over time uh, we have transitioned the business away from those large multinational brands um to a much more fragmented business model that you're referring to. Uh, servicing um, uh, smaller, often family um owned uh businesses just like ours. M in the pet sector.

Ann Rimmer: Yes. Which we will get into because I think it's really fascinating how the businesses undulated and changed really who the partner is over the years. But um, what would be really good is if you could just tell us a little bit about. So the, the business began as a farm started by your father. It's today still a uh family owned and um, managed business. Um and the then farm manager John Blackett. Could you tell us a little bit the breakthrough that. That began ga as an innovative pet food manufacturer?

James Bracewell: Certainly. So we've been farming in the area since the early 1950s. Uh, my grandfather was um, farming in the area. Um and we tried many different diversifications over time. We had pick your own strawberries. We converted an old barn into a wedding venue. Ah, we um, dug out sand on the farm and we sold the sand and we're left with a fishing lake. Um, but always looking to diversify away from farming. Farming as you know you're selling a commodity. Commoditized products are uh, you know um, it's a very difficult market to be in and particularly when you are susceptible to outside pressures that are beyond your control. Um, so the weather, the economy, um, so it wasn't really until um. Well it was just another, it just started as another diversification at the time in 1992, um, John Blackett who was ah a farm manager at the time was walking through a shop, turned around the bag of pet food and saw that there was a lot of wheat in the uh, composition. Um and then um, thought hey we could, we could make that uh, we actually started by putting the wheat uh into a um, a uh mill piece of milling equipment and this created a sort of a muesli mix. Um, and we could sell this a ah ton of wheat for a uh, 15 pound premium, uh, against the market price. And then it was really from there where we thought, hang on. Yeah, this is, you know, we're adding value here. Um, and then we ended up uh, uh, having a small farm auction. We managed to make enough money from that to generate uh, money to buy our first uh, extruder. So uh, an extruder is what you use to manufacture dry pet food.

Ann Rimmer: Perfect. And that kind of I suppose pursuit of adding value is something that's continued to today in the business. And I know from working with you personally that that's something that you're always looking to do is to make something better and better and better, but also premium so that you're continually adding value both to pets, to the consumers who own the pets, but also to the partners that you're selling to to give them the margin so that they can be competitive and build their own moat, as you like to say. Um, so how have you built competitiveness? Sorry, how do you kind of stay close to customers needs and continue building those moats?

James Bracewell: I think um, historically uh, going back to the very start, um the business it shaped over time. Um, and it's all about the evolution, um, and small incremental change. Um, I think uh, probably we didn't know it at the time but um, you know, Porter has two uh, focuses. You can have two choices. You can either be low cost or you can be differentiated.

Ann Rimmer: Yes.

James Bracewell: Uh, and fortunately probably um, just through the right decision at the time, we found ourselves on the differentiated side of the fork. Um, it started out really with our uh, customers at the start. Um, we entered into a very competitive world. You know, in 1992 the industry was still competitive as it is today, but it was competitive then. In order to win business in a competitive market, you've got to say to say yes to everything. Um, um. So uh, we um, said yes to the difficult to make products. We said yes to the small production runs. Everybody wanted the easy products that could, could were made in big batches. So um, really from there as a consequence we got a reputation for making the difficult products. And as the market premiumization um continued in the market, we sat in a good position. Then we received uh, we took on board some customers who actually helped drive our quality um because they brought on their own quality control teams and colleagues which then introduced processes which we learned from. And I think the business learned a lot from our customers. We listened to our customers, um, and then I think we um, then took a bit more of a lead um, over time as Opposed to maybe our customers taking a lead. We then have taken more of a lead on that. Um, we still very much value today, uh, surveying all of our customers, asking for their feedback. But uh, it's been a journey to get there, um, day by day.

Ann Rimmer: Yeah, sure. And can I pick up on differentiation that you mentioned there with Portis 5 4? Because I know this is something that a lot of companies are really seeking to do today is it's not enough anymore to just be very good or even exceptional at what you do. You've got to differentiate in some way. So thinking about that and thinking about ga, if I'm a potential partner choosing between GA and another manufacturer, what's the kind of capability or what makes you fundamentally different?

James Bracewell: Um, yeah, that's a really good question. Um, I think the main um, principal unique uh, uh element of what we offer um is uh, in terms of fresh truism. Uh, so fresh truism is um, ah, the process and the technology that we've developed from making our products different to other products that are out there. So historically and still very much today, if ah, you were to go into the supermarket and turn around a bag of pet food, uh, a lot of that pet food is, is, is made well with maize, um, but uh, the protein source is made from dehydrated meat meal. But what we developed um, prior to 2012, but with anger, since 2012 is the fresh Trujan process. So this is where we are um, able to source, uh, bring in our own refrigerated wagons, um, ah, high quality fresh meat from the human uh, food chain, um, onto site, uh, and within, you know, coming onto site, we're cooking those um, fresh uh, meats, uh Scottish salmon, Angus beef, uh, English duck, uh free range chicken, um, within you know, hours of it coming to site and we're cooking these meats in our own uh, ingredient kitchen, um, that we've developed ourselves and then we're then taking that meat um, and putting it into the extruder. So, so really what we're doing is no longer just really about extrusion. It's. There's a heck of a lot that goes on beforehand. Um, and all of our um, suppliers we audit and um, we're checking all of the meats that come to site. So I would say in terms of uh, our main differentiation and unique selling point, I would say it is our fresh Trion process. Um and um, we are, we've now adapted that further to our uh, um, freshtrusion ah, HD Pre processor. That's the Next generation. Uh, so we've got further plans to develop that.

Ann Rimmer: Yeah. And I've seen firsthand actually how um, the market's changing so that the pet food sectors really followed. It's called humanization, isn't it? But it's really followed what's happening for humans. So this kind of awareness of the importance of proteins and nutrients and wanting to kind of care for our own bodies and live better, that's kind of transferred into uh, what we want for our pets. So it's really interesting you mentioned there about the fresh uh, truism process because I know you put such a lot of science behind what you do and how you make it. But all equally you also have this stance that um, your recipes can only ever be as good as the raw ingredients that you put into it. So you really take a lot of care over that. Do you see that as being um, something that will increasingly matter to pets? Is that something that's going to grow over time, that innovation and um, bringing into that innovation of pet food the raw ingredients and the importance of that?

James Bracewell: Absolutely. I think um, as you said um, we've seen humanization of pets um and that has been around for a long time now, uh, but continues to um, trend continues to grow. Ah but with humanization uh we get this premiumization um as a consequence. So there is greater as we see if we reflect on our own lives. And I go around the office here, uh, I've got somebody who's um, putting something into their teeth to help with their hair. Somebody who washed their hair this morning with some shampoo that's got collagen in it, uh, somebody who's uh, got some face cream, somebody who's drinking an energy drink. We are all conscious about um, our nutrition, our health and trying to improve or um. And um. Yeah, uh, um uh perceived to improve what our health and the functionality of our bodies, uh, and extending our lives um, and well being as well alongside that. So as a consequence of that we are when we're treating a dog, a valued uh, family pet, um as another extension of the family, we transpose our own um, mentality about our own health awareness and consciousness and trends onto that of our pets. Um, and so we um, are seeking to meet those needs uh by ensuring that we can provide our partners with the right products um, that meet those nutritional needs to a very very high standard. But also um, the marketing elements as well. And that's I think is the dual function of those. The marriage of those. One can't exist without the other, uh in order for you to have success in, um, supporting our partners to be successful.

Ann Rimmer: Yes, yes. And we'll get into conversation about how you're really focused on education. So educating both the end consumer as to what they're buying and what impact that has for their pets and really truly the quality in there, but also educating your partners on how to sell it and what differentiates it and why it matters and how to advise their own customers. Um, before we go into the marketing side of it and the education side of it, I just really like to touch on the values of the organisation because I feel with GA you really live those values. You've got the values of integr, innovation and quality. Um, what role do you think the values play within the organisation?

James Bracewell: Um, I think when we started out as a manufacturer, we didn't quite realise, um, how important culture was. And uh. Um. I think my father always refers to the North Star when, uh, in the past, um, as you know, um, uh, it is about having that guiding light, not only for yourself, um, you know, in terms of leadership, but actually more importantly everybody else in the organization because we're then all working in that same line in that same direction. Um, and um, it creates a frictionless business. If you're all off going and doing these things, then it's, it's very costly. Uh, and I think that cost, nobody sees what that cost truly is. And that's why businesses probably don't focus on it because it's incalcalculable. Um, so I'm only talking about a feeling that I get. But having that guiding light, it keeps the business really focused and the direction is clear. It influences every decision that you take. You know, from, um, shall I go with this supplier or that supplier or shall I recruit this person or should I recruit that person or, um, do I want to trade with this partner or do I not? Um, every single decision that we take, um, is based on those values and when you have that clarity, it makes decision making very, very easy. We have actually just introduced a book ant called, um, the GA Way. And uh, so the GA Way is just a little book. I, um, have to say we based it on, um, uh, Sir John Timpson's, ah, little book which. Sorry, I'm just going off the screen now. Um, I went onto his website, he had a fantastic book. Um, we went off creating these, um, complex diagrams. Um, and it's all about, um, you know, we thought all very scientific and right. Um, but actually keep it really simple. Little pictures, um, showing how do you act what is the mindset? Um, and this just is there to uh, remind colleagues when they have those decisions, how do they act? What, what should they do?

Ann Rimmer: Um, I love that you've done that and that you invest continually in just helping colleagues understand the GA way, um, and understand, you know, what, what expectations we have of one another and how you work together. And uh, I just feel that GA's got a really good instinct for the importance of culture and people. And it's lovely to hear how your values really are your guardrails for making decisions and, and I know that genuinely happens. I've witnessed that. So that's, it's refreshing and it's something that I think a lot of businesses miss. So it's gorgeous that you've created that little book for everybody. Yeah, yeah. So that leads me really well into the, the people side of it. Um, remind us, how many employees do you have? How many colleagues?

James Bracewell: So, um, we have 600 colleagues in

Ann Rimmer: the business and I know you kind of spread across two sites in the uk, one where you manufacture, one where it's head office that ah, has a lot of the sales and um, logistics etc. But you also have a lot of colleagues who are in the field across Europe as well. Um, you've unusually made that decision to have your own people employed by ga, trained by ga, um, who operate within the field across Europe and uk, to go out to partners and um, to spend time with those partners and to educate them and to support them in any way that you can. Um, which is very different. So most in the sector uh, just see that as a mega cost and they haven't done it. Can you tell us why you chose to do that route and um, continue to see that as important?

James Bracewell: Yeah, no, it's um. I think, um, when we're talking about um, differentiation, um, you have to demonstrate what that differentiation is. Uh, and you can demonstrate it. A great example is on the bag. You know, you can have a nice brand name but really, um, that's only sort of skin deep you've got. There's so much more to that. Um, and if you were to go for example, and walk into your supermarket, uh, how would you know what pet food to buy? You would, you would just look at the front of the bag. No one ever looks at the back of the bag. Um, actually what makes our product different is when you look at the back of the bag and you look at what is in the composition, how is this product different? Um, um, to do that, um, we found having um, colleagues, uh, we Call them our disciples. Um, they're going out there spreading you know, our message, um, to, to all of our partners, um, in their place of business, um, throughout Europe has been the best way to do that. Um, to demonstrate this different difference is prime. It's through education. Um, and education comes in many different forms. Um, and one of those we found is having a colleague um, knocking on the door, um, serve, you know, coming to meet a partner, building up trust and a relationship, um, training this, the partner's colleagues and sales colleagues, um, has been the best thing for us. Um, contrary to that we've seen. You know, this is a model that we have taken from others in the industry. But whilst we've persevered with it, many of our competitors have withdrawn that because again they see, they see the cost, um, it is very expensive, um, but it has been absolutely central to us, um, gaining a foothold in these markets across Europe, um, and maintaining them.

Ann Rimmer: M. Yeah, absolutely. And just looking at that kind of not taking the easy path. Um, but a lot of businesses at some point have those moments where the easy path is to follow the market. Um, I just wondered if you could share a moment when GA has had to make a difficult call and changed direction. Um, because I know that has happened in the past where you've completely pivoted in terms of the kind of partner that you've gone for, but you've done that um, for lots of reasons. I think it'd be really interesting just to share that kind of point in the business.

James Bracewell: Yes, Um, I think this has been gradual over time. But I'd probably say the main uh, one was in about the year 2000, uh we spent £6 million on uh, building a new uh, extruder line. It was uh, a very difficult time because we built this really for this one customer. This One customer represented 43% of our business. Um, and then this customer ended up being acquired um, by uh, another uh, significant multinational brand. Um, and they wanted to bring their production in house. They, they believed that they had their own production capabilities, uh, to meet the needs of this new brand that they'd acquired. And so overnight we lost 43% of our business. And um, it was a very, very difficult time for us, um, whilst we probably still acquired ah, other brand, other large brands. It was that moment when we realized that uh, we had to work with um, family, uh, well independently family owned businesses like ours that ultimately businesses that shared our same values. And that is where quality, uh, innovation and integrity, but above all else, quality comes. It does come first. And our partners, the partners of ours that value quality, those were who we needed to align ourselves with. So. And from there, when we've, when we've been faced with other tough decisions and, um, we've realized that those partners weren't truly aligned with us, um, you know, it's been, we've, we've had to say goodbye with a heavy heart, but, um, we know that every time that happens, it has made the business stronger, uh, and made us more focused. Because you sort of free yourself from these shackles and this cloak that you're previously wearing, and you can leave that behind to focus on really where you need to be. Um, and it makes you much more competitive, uh, focused, um, as a consequence.

Ann Rimmer: Yeah, yeah. And I know that you've also retained, you know, a lot of the larger partners who, um, have stayed because they are aligned in some way, whether that is with your values and culture or whether it is that they simply value the quality of what you produce. So I, um, think that's a really important point. That focus is so difficult. Sometimes your own customers can take you off course and you think you're on the right path. And I speak to many companies who do this, who. They end up manufacturing very bespoke things for many, many customers because they want to keep those customers and grow with them. But at some point they realize that they've lost their way and actually it's taken them off course.

James Bracewell: Yeah, I think it's a really interesting point. Maybe as we enter into Easter, it's like the 40 days and 40 nights and life is about. Often, uh, you get all of these things that you need to do this, you know, temptation, uh, you need to, you need to, um. Just been driving in this morning and the head of field sales is telling me that a colleague says, we'll sell so much in Italy if we have this particular product. But that product, uh, category is, Is not our focus. We're focusing on going on to the premium end, uh, again, your customers, you know, you need to do this, you should do that. And whilst it is really important to hear, I, um, think it's. You can't do everything. And that's where the strategy, the values, it keeps you on course. They are your guardrails, uh, that stop you from being distracted.

Ann Rimmer: Um, yes. Yeah. It goes back to your North Star, doesn't it? Being really clear on, um, who you are and who you're for, who you're not for and where you're going. I think that that's something that I see very strongly within the business. Just thinking about all of this, I think the pet industry in particular has seen this surge of private equity investment. Um and that's drawn by the sustained growth that the pet industry sees. Uh, we love our pets and we particularly want to care for them. So it's quite a premium market. Um but many of these businesses are now being shaped by these investor expectations. But GA's just taken a different path, um, remaining proudly independent. To what extent do you see independence as a genuine competitive advantage? Um, not just culturally but commercially as well. Now's the time to nail your market positioning and be the expert of choice. Work with us to propel your business today. Yeah, so the industry really for pet industry has uh, seen this surge of private equity investment which is understandable because the pet sector has continued to grow and has proven to be very resilient because people love our pets and um, we are ah willing to invest in them. Um, so there's many businesses now being shaped by investor expectations but GA has taken a different path and you've remained proudly independent. So to what extent do you see that independence as a genuine competitive advantage not just culturally but commercially?

James Bracewell: Yeah, no, that's a really good question. And I think for me um, we've had the benefit of um, understanding the m Private equity expectations and motivations and strategy and ethos because we've seen um, plethora of our partners um, okay maybe I shouldn't use the word but succumbing to their um, um, you know, their will, their ways. So uh, lots of our partners have been uh, sold out to private equity over the years. And uh, what we've seen um, and with is the case for pretty much all of our partners is that most of our partners are established not because of business reasons. Um, they are founded on the principles of trying to deliver the best uh, for pets uh, and ensuring the best quality nutrition. Um so that is the foundation, that is the basis. Not necessarily um, you know trying to focus on making money even uh, which for many people might be a surprise but it is based upon their whole raison d' etre of focusing on delivering the best repairs. And um, you know there's no surprise that those that grow to be the biggest probably have that strongest um. That's their North Star and that's their strongest focus. So those businesses that have been bought are very, the whole the founder led business um, is based upon the founders principles. And then what happens uh, is the acquirer m. They don't quite have that same passion, drive, dedication um as the founder does. And so often the acquirer is backed by um, finance, uh, and those people on finance want to return and they want to return pretty, pretty damn quickly. Uh, so the quality no longer becomes the primary um, focus, the most important thing. And that's really where we have seen the disalignment with our partners over time is where quality no longer is number one. Because quality for us is always number one. Yes price is important but actually price comes second to quality whereas I think that relationship um, inverses and you then get price actually becoming more important to quality. So the business is no longer founder led, the business that the business's values are no longer founder led. The businesses uh, values and focus is um, economically led. Um and so that changes the whole dynamic. Uh and whilst that doesn't change immediately and it doesn't change overnight in terms of the outcomes, the repercussions, uh, it comes out in the wash and it comes out eventually. And the people who they're selling to both their customers but also their B2B customers soon find out that the values of the business have changed. Um, we uh, I'm strongly against that, that basis of doing business. But I also understand it's a, it's a different way, um, as we have a differentiation whereas a, opposed to a low cost way, it's just a different way. So I don't want to be uh, uh, too negative towards those. But having a short term view um, is in my opinion a handicap. Um, we have the benefit of being 100% family owned, uh and we can take decisions that are long uh term decisions. We don't have to um, give a return to our shareholders within a certain short time frame. We can do things that are about um, long term sustainability, differentiation, innovation, uniqueness, um, that may not deliver instant value but over the long term gives that. And I think that is the same for our partners as well who are 100% family owned. Yes, they can take those same decisions. So um, uh yeah.

Ann Rimmer: So what are the commercial benefits though of being independent? I'm kind of wondering. So it's a real dichotomy isn't it? Because um, obviously when somebody reaches a point in the business and they want to exit, um, or they want to really go for growth and they need that investment. I can see the attraction there. Uh, but for ga, remaining independent and choosing to go down this route of investing for the long term, how does that benefit your partners? What comes from that for them?

James Bracewell: I think, um, so um, as you know, and uh, we've been working for a long time we have a long term horizon. You talked about NPD new product development. We've got a 15 year new product development plan.

Ann Rimmer: Yes.

James Bracewell: Um, so it's every you know, element of our uh, you know, a lot of our resources, any, any profit that we happen to make, it's not siphoned off to, to anywhere in London or outside of the country. Everything goes right back into, to the future. Uh, our MPD plan is 15 years. It's not a three year or five year horizon. It's a 15 year horizon. And all the investment that we take, whether that's in our colleagues, our training, our personnel, um, the technical equipment, the automation, the new wind turbine that we're looking to build, everything that we're doing is, is about supporting that new product development plan uh, and delivering a better service for our partners into the future.

Ann Rimmer: Yeah.

James Bracewell: So um, yeah, I would say that um.

Ann Rimmer: Yeah, I agree, I tend to agree. Yeah. I think having, I mean a 15 year um, MPD plan is, is such a luxury these days. Businesses are so tend to be very short termism, um, for lots of reasons. Um, but I think the benefit of being able to always put the partner and colleagues front and centre and know that you know, if something's worth doing, it's worth doing right and taking the time to do it in that way that ultimately it gives you that freedom, doesn't it to be able to do right by the partners, right by the colleagues and build a more sustainable business. Which I know is at the heart of GA's strategy. So yeah, it's just really interesting what's happening in the sector I think and the impact that will have. Well it is having already. Um, so I want to bring us back to something you said earlier about education and this leads me into the sales and marketing path that you're on really. So you've grown by helping your partners grow. So whereas a lot of um, certainly manufacturing companies will be very focused on making a very good product and selling that and getting it to market, um, which is obviously fundamental. GA's kind of taken a slightly different approach to it and you've joined the dots that you can shift as much product as you want but if the partner can't succeed with it then it's not going to be a long term business. So just talk to us really about that education path that you've taken, the kinds of things that you do to help partners grow.

James Bracewell: So I like to think at GA we take a different approach to many of our competitors or um, in other industries, um, as many other Sectors, there are trade shows, um, there are um, you know, magazines, uh, for this, for the industry. Magazines.

Ann Rimmer: Yes.

James Bracewell: Um, we no longer attend trade shows. We no longer advertise in the industry magazine. Uh, we want to do something different. Okay. I find them actually maybe I'm being pretty negative here but very uninspiring. Uh, and I think if you are to look at the return on investment on these things, it is not value for money. We have to deliver value for money for our partners. So we want to meet our partners directly in their shop or where it's most convenient for them. Um, so we like to do it ourselves. So as I said, I spoke about, we have field colleagues visiting in their shops, in their country with their own language. We have a QR code on the back of every bag, um, helping with, um, which takes our partners to a landing page which explains about fresh truism, um, which um, is a sort of intel inside approach to um, ingredient branding. Um, we have our own periodical, uh, or newsletter which we send out uh, three or four every year which tells our partners about what's coming up, what's happened, celebrating success. Um, we have um, other marketing materials and support. We've uh, just recently launched a brand new product range. Um, and we created our own uh, encyclopedia. Um, so this has been created in a way, um, that's um, really approachable. Um, and that is where our marketing budget is spent. It's not spent on a, you know, we were attending the trade shows and it was a hundred thousand euros each year to attend the biggest and best trade shows. But instead we now have a two day uh, event where we invite our partners from all over Europe. So last June we had 200 partners, 200 odd partners from 13 different countries coming to visit us. So rather than spending five minutes on our stand in Germany, um, come and visit at the factory, come and walk around, come and meet the people who actually make the product. Not don't necessarily come to me, meet them, ask them the questions, um, and seminars and uh, dinners and we spend the same amount, uh, but we feel that we get so much more value. Um, I think with those things there's a lot of fomo, uh, fear of missing out and people feel that they have to, but if they were totally honest with themselves, they would see that the return on investment is very, very poor. Uh, and actually the people who read it aren't necessarily customers, they're suppliers, they're other stakeholders or you know, um, other people, uh, who they're not wanting to target. We can go directly to Our partners. M. So yeah, education is important and meeting them uh, where it's um, yeah

Ann Rimmer: I've got their attention and I think the other thing that I'd reflect on as well is that a lot of businesses invest quite a lot in digital marketing these days. Everything's kind of remote. Um, but GA's, uh, you're showing a lot of print today. You know you're doing more of the traditional job of marketing but also the in person is about relationships, isn't it? And it's, it's about uh, openness and come and see exactly what we do. There's no secrets behind your recipes because you're so proud of quite rightly the everything that goes into them and the colleagues that make them. It's quite unusual. Um, but you also have, you do have a digital product because you have the uh, what you call the Academy, the GA Academy, um, which is this kind of online community which is only exclusively for partners of ga. Um, so kind of talk to me about that balance between the online, the physical world of marketing that you do.

James Bracewell: Yeah, no, um, as you said the print is really important. Um, and it's probably maybe seen as a historical way of doing things but it does really work. But with that um, again like I say, trying to make things convenient and meet our partners, um, where is most convenient to them. I think it is layered, uh, and just one uh, alternative approach that we take as opposed to advertising on Instagram, LinkedIn, other social media platforms. As you rightly say, we have invested in our own uh, social media platform. So this is a uh, platform uh only exclusively for our partners.

Ann Rimmer: Yeah.

James Bracewell: So so far we've got about 900 uh, nearly a thousand partners on this platform from all around Europe. Uh and it gives them an opportunity. It's rather like our, our own Facebook really. So if you imagined it was a space for um, all of these like minded um uh, uh partners to talk to each other. So there's a section on there where they get to talk to each other, ask questions, post pictures and it might, and we hope that it's not exclusively about ga, it is about what's happening in the industry. Um, but alongside that there is a part of the platform that has uh, training courses. We also uh, from the month of March of February prior to a new, a launch of a new range, we had um, a selection of live events building up to the launch of this new product and we had um, about 600 uh, different um partners and colleagues um coming in to view all these videos. Um so um, it's um. Yeah, it's been um. It's got still lots to do but uh, it's been that's again an alternative approach that we sort of take rather than the traditional platforms.

Ann Rimmer: Yeah, no I really. That's amazing. I admire that kind of um, decision that you've taken to pull away from some of the uh, more obvious ways of reaching prospects. You know through trade shows, through publications. There's a lot of wastage. I know a lot of companies are struggling with that and kind of invest that in your own channels and your own ways of connecting with partners and educating. So I think that's excellent. So just a couple of final questions from me really. Brand is often associated with consumer businesses. So what role do you think branding has for B2B businesses?

James Bracewell: Branding's M as I've learned, um, incredibly important. Uh, for B2B. Um, I think it probably is often, I don't know, maybe not forgotten about but not uh, seen as important as in maybe B2C um or D2C. I think where we have uh,

Ann Rimmer: benefited

James Bracewell: m immensely is from our ah, sort of our ah brand that is passed on through word of mouth. Um, and that all stems back to our uh, long standing focus on quality. Um and we, I think we are certain we're currently working to try and cement that uh, by actually having a little bit more of a um, marketing mindset. Um, so considering um, the brand, uh, how it looks, how it feels, I um, think it's. Yeah, we've been good at actually doing it but we're not very good at saying what we do uh, and shouting on the rooftops. Look, you know, um, we're doing all these fantastic things and that's kind of where we're at on our journey is trying to be a bit more, I don't know, maybe boastful is the wrong word or less modest. But yeah, uh, about who we are. Um, but absolutely really, um, really important for B2B.

Ann Rimmer: Yeah. Yeah. Um, so if you could give one piece of advice to another founder or leader trying to build a kind of resilient, differentiated business today, what would it be?

James Bracewell: So um, yeah for us we've recently, I say recently, maybe the last five years we've started on a ah process called continuous uh improvement. And um, it's something you can read up a lot on. Um, but this um has impacted our culture immensely. Um and ultimately it does come down to culture and creating the right culture. Um, we've been on a journey, we've learned uh, we've got things wrong. We've got many things wrong, but it's also about putting it right when you see it's wrong. Um, so creating the right environment, uh, for colleagues, uh, for partners to thrive, uh, it is through incremental change. Um, I think Einstein said that compounding is the eighth wonder of the world. Uh, and it is absolutely true. Uh, and you know as you look at it it's very hard at the start but there is this sort of kick um, where it grows kind of exponentially. Um, and I think culture, uh, you know, led through continuous improvement. Having the right people, uh, on board and supporting those and creating that environment for them to um, to work. I think uh, it's about being you know, um, like a football team or a religion. People want to be part of something and you've got to create that environment where people want to want to be part of something. Um and that's what we're trying to create. It's still a long way from doing so. Um, but if you can create that, life will just become easier and more. The business will become much more enjoyable. Um, you know everybody. It's a nicer place for people to work in, but likewise for yourself. Ah, so it's in your interest, uh, not only from a financial point of view but also uh, from a day to day um point of view. So um, relationships, uh, and culture really important.

Ann Rimmer: Um, yeah. And just finally then, um, if I may, what excites you most about the future and in particular where do you see. So you've got this 15 year NPD plan. Where do you see GA in 15 years?

James Bracewell: Um, yeah, I mean, um, I mean I get really excited going back to the previous one about seeing my team grow and seeing them develop and take on more responsibility or do something really good. I um, love, I love that and I'm really excited um for that. Um, but in terms of you know, NPD and where the business is headed, uh, but also going back to the brand as well and who we are, um, I think continuing that focus on differentiation, um, and delivering the most unique um, and high quality products to support our partners, to help them because they have to be unique as well. We recognize we need to be unique and our partners need to be unique to survive. Because that Pareto principle is the same for them. And they will never ever, ever be able to compete with the supermarkets, the um, multi, um, retail, um, chains, uh, that are out there in the market. So they have to be different. There's no other choice. They have to be different. So we are on a long term plan to deliver that and I hope not all these products might be suitable for them but I hope that they seek to align their NPD strategy with ours. Um, and we'll only achieve that through that marketing. The multi layered. I think you've got to tell somebody seven times before they buy something. I've seen it now 13 times.

Ann Rimmer: So going on we've got,

James Bracewell: we've got to, we've got to keep communicating that plan and hope that the partners also align theirs ah, with that plan. So, yeah, um, yeah, really, really exciting and uh, so much to look forward to. Uh, and I think in the industry at the moment, I think in many industries it is, it's tough times, we've been through tough times recently and it's hard out there. But uh, in spite of that the principles remain the same. Humanisation, premiumization. And um, we've got to continue on that journey because the product of today, you know, in 15 years time is old hat. So we have to continue to change, to improve, to evolve, adapt. And that NPD plan, um, gives us that focus, that drive, that North Star.

Ann Rimmer: Fantastic. I've really, really enjoyed that. I've really enjoyed discussing really where GA started, those kind of humble beginnings and starting in farming and then ending up being this, what is hugely technical, quite scientific business but actually is all about people and relationships and really driven by innovation and that continuous improvement. So it's been a really, really fascinating discussion. I think there's lots in it for everybody listening to take from it and hopefully it will give them the confidence to, to try things and to push against the grain and do things differently to what the industry or the competitors are doing. So thank you so much James, really enjoyed that.

James Bracewell: Thank you very much Anne. And I would encourage any of your listeners to tune in to uh, listen to your other podcasts. Uh, Anne, you've helped us immensely over the years, uh, getting us to where we are today and that clarity. Uh, and so yeah, uh, I encourage everybody to listen to and read your work, um, because uh, it's been incredibly useful for us. So uh, thank you, thank you.

Ann Rimmer: That's testament to the kind of culture of the business that, where you do make um, suppliers feel part of the team. So thank you. That's really, really lovely of you to say that. Have a lovely day.

James Bracewell: Thank you very much, Anne. Thank you.