188 - ADHD Is A Label But Capacity Is The Problem - with Frankie Berkoben

1 00:00:32,569 --> 00:00:34,489 SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Product Led Growth Leaders. 2 00:00:34,569 --> 00:00:37,049 We've got an excellent guest for the show today, Frankie 3 00:00:37,209 --> 00:00:38,009 Berkobin. 4 00:00:38,409 --> 00:00:42,409 Her background is in engineering consulting, product management. 5 00:00:42,809 --> 00:00:46,809 One thing that her and I have in common already is that she were 6 00:00:46,969 --> 00:00:48,489 both PhD dropouts. 7 00:00:48,890 --> 00:00:50,809 And so that's fun. 8 00:00:51,849 --> 00:00:57,849 And her uh midlife discovery of ADHD reframed things for her, 9 00:00:57,929 --> 00:01:00,649 and I think led on the path that we'll be talking about today. 10 00:01:00,809 --> 00:01:05,689 Uh today she is executive coach and founder of Frankly Quite 11 00:01:05,849 --> 00:01:08,810 ADHD, where she helps brilliant, high-performing tech 12 00:01:08,810 --> 00:01:12,329 professionals build lives and careers that actually work for 13 00:01:12,329 --> 00:01:12,969 their brains. 14 00:01:13,129 --> 00:01:14,810 Frankie, welcome to the show. 15 00:01:15,129 --> 00:01:16,650 SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much, Thomas. 16 00:01:16,889 --> 00:01:18,090 SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely. 17 00:01:18,250 --> 00:01:20,889 Um so okay, so where to begin? 18 00:01:21,129 --> 00:01:26,409 Um I think we all have a passing idea of what ADHD is. 19 00:01:26,569 --> 00:01:31,209 And by the way, I I believe that this month is um mental health 20 00:01:31,209 --> 00:01:32,969 awareness month or something like that. 21 00:01:33,049 --> 00:01:35,689 Is is is that I believe so, yeah. 22 00:01:35,930 --> 00:01:36,649 Yeah, something like that. 23 00:01:36,729 --> 00:01:38,090 So this is apropos. 24 00:01:38,250 --> 00:01:41,289 Um how should we be thinking about ADHD? 25 00:01:42,649 --> 00:01:44,170 SPEAKER_01: This is a complicated topic. 26 00:01:44,250 --> 00:01:47,769 And my my views on it have really changed over time. 27 00:01:47,929 --> 00:01:51,609 The more that I've worked with people who are visionary, 28 00:01:51,769 --> 00:01:55,209 brilliant systems thinkers who have follow-through or 29 00:01:55,209 --> 00:01:59,129 inconsistent performance, like you know, that they have a great 30 00:01:59,129 --> 00:02:02,569 idea and high potential but inconsistent performance and 31 00:02:02,649 --> 00:02:04,569 like what actually happens. 32 00:02:04,810 --> 00:02:11,050 And that is that ADHD is a medical diagnostic term which is 33 00:02:11,129 --> 00:02:14,969 um defined by certain social norms, and so there's you know 34 00:02:15,769 --> 00:02:18,969 uh various intersectional biases that come into that. 35 00:02:19,370 --> 00:02:26,090 But why ADHD is so relatable is because of executive functioning 36 00:02:26,090 --> 00:02:26,889 challenges. 37 00:02:27,129 --> 00:02:32,889 And executive functioning skills are what our brains do, how are 38 00:02:33,129 --> 00:02:37,930 like the cognitive processes that help us make sense of 39 00:02:37,930 --> 00:02:42,169 things, make plans, enact and follow through on those plans, 40 00:02:42,490 --> 00:02:46,889 remember them, regulate our emotion and attention, and then 41 00:02:46,889 --> 00:02:50,889 to be able to be aware of and be able to adapt to changing 42 00:02:50,889 --> 00:02:52,969 situations and our own needs. 43 00:02:53,449 --> 00:02:57,849 And when you put it like that, you're like, oh, when I'm 44 00:02:57,849 --> 00:02:59,770 stressed, this happens. 45 00:03:00,009 --> 00:03:01,609 When I'm sick, this happens. 46 00:03:01,770 --> 00:03:07,689 So an interesting thing happened a couple of years ago that I was 47 00:03:07,849 --> 00:03:13,930 postpartum with my first kid, and there were things that were 48 00:03:13,930 --> 00:03:18,090 happening to me personally that were colloquially known as mommy 49 00:03:18,090 --> 00:03:19,049 brain or brain fog. 50 00:03:19,289 --> 00:03:20,490 And I was like, no, no, no, no. 51 00:03:20,569 --> 00:03:23,449 These have terminology associated with them that are 52 00:03:23,449 --> 00:03:26,409 around specific executive functions, like nonverbal 53 00:03:26,490 --> 00:03:27,930 working, memory, et cetera. 54 00:03:28,169 --> 00:03:32,889 At the same time, my coaching practice was expanding through 55 00:03:32,889 --> 00:03:36,009 referrals, and there are a lot more people coming to me saying, 56 00:03:36,250 --> 00:03:39,449 I don't identify as neurodivergent in any way, but 57 00:03:39,449 --> 00:03:43,370 everything that you're saying speaks to me ever since half my 58 00:03:43,370 --> 00:03:46,169 team got laid off and everybody else is like worried that 59 00:03:46,169 --> 00:03:47,210 they're gonna be next. 60 00:03:47,449 --> 00:03:52,009 I'm managing more emotional and cognitive load in that scenario, 61 00:03:52,329 --> 00:03:56,329 or something changed in my family situation, and there are 62 00:03:56,329 --> 00:03:59,689 more responsibilities that I'm holding and juggling outside of 63 00:03:59,689 --> 00:04:04,729 work, which then means that my capacity at work is diminished. 64 00:04:04,969 --> 00:04:08,650 And so the two things that I really work on, which are 65 00:04:08,650 --> 00:04:15,049 agnostic of ADHD, are the executive functioning challenges 66 00:04:15,049 --> 00:04:16,329 and how to support those. 67 00:04:16,490 --> 00:04:20,970 So, kind of about logistics and um systems that support the 68 00:04:20,970 --> 00:04:23,449 brain, your the way your brain actually works. 69 00:04:23,689 --> 00:04:26,970 But then another component of this, especially for high 70 00:04:26,970 --> 00:04:30,889 achievers, people who are extremely smart, and when that 71 00:04:30,889 --> 00:04:34,169 could be intellectually or creatively or athletically, um, 72 00:04:34,490 --> 00:04:39,769 is the mismatch between what they're capable of and what they 73 00:04:39,769 --> 00:04:42,889 have capacity for leads to a great deal of shame. 74 00:04:43,449 --> 00:04:47,769 And that shame and blame and like negative self-talk then 75 00:04:47,769 --> 00:04:49,929 suppresses our own executive functions. 76 00:04:50,009 --> 00:04:54,649 So it's a kind of vicious circle of lower executive functions due 77 00:04:54,649 --> 00:04:57,289 to either context or pervasive. 78 00:04:57,769 --> 00:05:00,409 And then the shame that then suppresses that. 79 00:05:00,570 --> 00:05:04,409 And so it's um, you can see that there's there's the emotional 80 00:05:04,409 --> 00:05:06,409 side and then the behavioral side. 81 00:05:06,809 --> 00:05:09,450 SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and so since I'm a psychology geek, can't 82 00:05:09,450 --> 00:05:12,409 help myself, and I want to also clarify for the audience a lot 83 00:05:12,409 --> 00:05:15,210 of business folks might not hear these terms, you know, executive 84 00:05:15,210 --> 00:05:15,850 functioning. 85 00:05:16,009 --> 00:05:18,809 Um, you know, we're talking about stuff that's the advanced 86 00:05:18,809 --> 00:05:21,529 part of the brain, prefrontal cortex, and it in it, you know, 87 00:05:21,689 --> 00:05:23,610 and and it's managing everything else. 88 00:05:23,689 --> 00:05:27,769 So so much of what we do is automated, but we have to run 89 00:05:27,769 --> 00:05:29,370 the show at the very top. 90 00:05:29,610 --> 00:05:33,129 And sometimes there's problems that come into play when we're 91 00:05:33,129 --> 00:05:34,090 trying to do that. 92 00:05:34,330 --> 00:05:36,809 And um, okay, so that fantastic. 93 00:05:36,889 --> 00:05:38,970 We're talking about that, and then we're talking about the 94 00:05:38,970 --> 00:05:44,570 shame you're saying that comes from a mismatch between what I 95 00:05:44,570 --> 00:05:48,649 can do and what I what I know I can do and what I've done. 96 00:05:48,809 --> 00:05:53,129 And I'm a since I'm a high achieving person, that's my 97 00:05:53,129 --> 00:05:53,929 value system. 98 00:05:54,009 --> 00:05:56,490 And I I I identify with achieving a lot. 99 00:05:56,649 --> 00:05:57,929 Is it kind of like that? 100 00:05:58,330 --> 00:06:00,090 SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you put it so well. 101 00:06:00,250 --> 00:06:03,129 And it's the difference between potential and performance. 102 00:06:03,370 --> 00:06:09,370 And with high potential, um, yeah, the the gap between normal 103 00:06:09,370 --> 00:06:13,370 or average performance um often is the thing that creates 104 00:06:13,370 --> 00:06:14,809 additional challenges. 105 00:06:15,610 --> 00:06:19,210 SPEAKER_00: And is do you think a lot of uh founders, a lot of 106 00:06:19,210 --> 00:06:22,090 executives have ADHD and don't know it? 107 00:06:24,970 --> 00:06:27,529 SPEAKER_01: My personal opinion is yeah, probably. 108 00:06:27,689 --> 00:06:31,769 And also, ADHD may not be the term for this. 109 00:06:32,009 --> 00:06:36,090 It may be this probably impacts about 50% of the population. 110 00:06:36,250 --> 00:06:38,330 Like I'm I'm not a diagnostician. 111 00:06:38,490 --> 00:06:44,009 Um, and if we think about the the intersection of nonlinear, 112 00:06:44,169 --> 00:06:48,490 associative, um, like deeply intuitive and high empathy, like 113 00:06:48,570 --> 00:06:51,929 high emotional reasoning in terms of that sort of way of 114 00:06:51,929 --> 00:06:56,330 thinking versus zeros and ones, binary and deductive linear 115 00:06:56,330 --> 00:07:01,049 thinking, um, then it expands to, oh, this is a set of 116 00:07:01,049 --> 00:07:05,289 qualities that many visionary leaders, people who are great 117 00:07:05,289 --> 00:07:08,889 at, um, who are very charismatic and able to bring people along, 118 00:07:09,210 --> 00:07:11,769 fund me, buy into this initiative. 119 00:07:12,009 --> 00:07:13,689 We need to go in this direction. 120 00:07:13,929 --> 00:07:18,090 That that actually that set of qualities is much more common 121 00:07:18,409 --> 00:07:21,769 than a diagnostic label would indicate. 122 00:07:22,090 --> 00:07:22,409 SPEAKER_00: Yeah. 123 00:07:22,570 --> 00:07:26,889 And so should I think about this ADHD is the one of the more 124 00:07:26,889 --> 00:07:30,649 commonly known terms out of the whole world of neurodivergence. 125 00:07:30,809 --> 00:07:33,450 Should we see that as kind of like an umbrella term of like, 126 00:07:33,529 --> 00:07:36,169 yes, you might have ADHD, who knows? 127 00:07:36,409 --> 00:07:40,649 But the point is that you're in a high kind of performing 128 00:07:40,649 --> 00:07:44,330 position, you've got a lot of responsibilities, and you're 129 00:07:44,330 --> 00:07:47,610 also trying to manage some of these neurodivergent traits. 130 00:07:47,689 --> 00:07:49,689 Is that a fair way of thinking about it? 131 00:07:50,649 --> 00:07:52,809 SPEAKER_01: The only thing I would change is, and you're 132 00:07:52,809 --> 00:07:54,570 trying to manage human traits. 133 00:07:54,889 --> 00:08:00,409 You're trying to manage being an animal that has sleep needs, 134 00:08:00,570 --> 00:08:05,610 that has emotional variance, that has uh, you know, we're 135 00:08:05,610 --> 00:08:07,529 social creatures as well as analytical. 136 00:08:07,610 --> 00:08:11,210 Like there's a lot of variability in how we're able to 137 00:08:11,210 --> 00:08:13,850 show up and the resources that are available to us. 138 00:08:13,929 --> 00:08:16,490 And we don't operate in a vacuum. 139 00:08:16,730 --> 00:08:20,090 We are part of social systems, we're part of workplace systems, 140 00:08:20,169 --> 00:08:22,809 like we're interacting with the physical world. 141 00:08:23,049 --> 00:08:28,649 And so it's um it's the the traits, the challenges that come 142 00:08:28,649 --> 00:08:35,450 with being human in a set of expectations that maybe require 143 00:08:35,769 --> 00:08:38,970 we we think that we're machines, that we have the same capacity 144 00:08:39,049 --> 00:08:39,929 no matter what. 145 00:08:40,649 --> 00:08:42,730 SPEAKER_00: Can you tell us a story as an example? 146 00:08:44,490 --> 00:08:49,450 SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so there's I work with You can make it 147 00:08:49,450 --> 00:08:50,490 anonymous, of course. 148 00:08:50,730 --> 00:08:51,370 Oh, yeah. 149 00:08:51,610 --> 00:08:53,049 Well, so this guy. 150 00:08:54,490 --> 00:08:59,129 Um Yeah, I mean that the most common thing that I see, and 151 00:08:59,129 --> 00:09:04,809 this is a you know amalgam of 12 different clients in in many 152 00:09:04,809 --> 00:09:08,889 ways, is um I'm I'm at this level. 153 00:09:08,969 --> 00:09:13,610 I'm a senior IC, or like I'm an engineering manager, a lead, and 154 00:09:13,610 --> 00:09:15,370 I have certain levels of responsibilities. 155 00:09:15,529 --> 00:09:17,689 What got me here won't get me there. 156 00:09:18,169 --> 00:09:24,809 And um what got me here was hustle, was grit, was diving in 157 00:09:24,809 --> 00:09:25,929 and doing the things. 158 00:09:26,089 --> 00:09:29,689 And now I have to think about operating differently. 159 00:09:29,929 --> 00:09:34,329 And I can't just increase the number of hours because the laws 160 00:09:34,329 --> 00:09:36,490 of space and time do not allow for that. 161 00:09:36,730 --> 00:09:45,689 I can't um, you know what and the frustration of um I used to 162 00:09:45,689 --> 00:09:48,250 be able to do this really quickly, but now it feels like I 163 00:09:48,250 --> 00:09:51,610 can't access that mode of operating, that way of thinking, 164 00:09:51,850 --> 00:09:56,490 that brilliant creativity, that sense of this is fun and I 165 00:09:56,490 --> 00:09:57,370 belong here. 166 00:09:57,929 --> 00:10:01,370 And then there's a lot of self-doubt that creeps in. 167 00:10:01,850 --> 00:10:08,490 And so um uh someone who one of my clients who was um pretty 168 00:10:08,490 --> 00:10:12,490 high up in Airbnb, um, developed a heart condition because of the 169 00:10:12,490 --> 00:10:16,329 amount of stress that she was putting on herself around 170 00:10:16,649 --> 00:10:21,449 performing to a level that she had been capable of at one point 171 00:10:21,449 --> 00:10:24,889 in her career, but with the additional responsibilities was 172 00:10:24,969 --> 00:10:27,370 not no longer available to her. 173 00:10:29,610 --> 00:10:33,129 SPEAKER_00: And so you, even before you explicitly adopted 174 00:10:33,129 --> 00:10:36,569 this lens to uh tell me if I have this uh right or wrong, um, 175 00:10:36,809 --> 00:10:40,649 but you've been uh practicing consulting uh for a long time 176 00:10:40,649 --> 00:10:40,889 now. 177 00:10:41,049 --> 00:10:44,250 You're out there in SF, lots of founders, lots of executives, 178 00:10:44,409 --> 00:10:47,129 and um, but at some point you adopted this lens. 179 00:10:47,370 --> 00:10:51,449 Did that change fundamentally how you uh approached things, or 180 00:10:51,449 --> 00:10:53,129 did it just add a layer? 181 00:10:55,610 --> 00:10:58,490 SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it it did fundamentally change how I 182 00:10:58,490 --> 00:11:02,009 approach things and also how I now see things. 183 00:11:02,250 --> 00:11:05,850 A lot of people are extremely judgmental of themselves and 184 00:11:05,850 --> 00:11:09,689 they hold themselves to impossible standards where peak 185 00:11:09,689 --> 00:11:13,929 performance is what they should be aiming for as their new 186 00:11:13,929 --> 00:11:17,449 baseline, or they should be able to access it all of the time. 187 00:11:17,610 --> 00:11:23,129 And so the mismatch between um perception and reality of we 188 00:11:23,129 --> 00:11:24,969 have inconsistent capacity. 189 00:11:25,529 --> 00:11:31,129 And so um also with that, that's one part of it is seeing how 190 00:11:31,129 --> 00:11:35,049 hard people are on themselves and the rigid belief systems 191 00:11:35,049 --> 00:11:40,169 about themselves, what they're capable of, um really is is 192 00:11:40,169 --> 00:11:42,490 damaging in the um in the long term. 193 00:11:42,889 --> 00:11:49,529 Um but also just working with, I've now worked with about 200 194 00:11:49,529 --> 00:11:54,409 founders, senior leaders, um, people in with high degrees of 195 00:11:54,409 --> 00:11:56,009 impact or visibility. 196 00:11:57,449 --> 00:12:02,250 And there are lots of common threads that look very different 197 00:12:02,250 --> 00:12:07,370 on the outside, but are deeply related to certain like common 198 00:12:07,370 --> 00:12:11,689 threads, as I say, like around working memory challenges or 199 00:12:11,689 --> 00:12:17,850 around um being highly ambitious and having a value system that 200 00:12:17,850 --> 00:12:21,529 is around achievement, around worth, um, and things like that. 201 00:12:21,689 --> 00:12:26,409 And so just it's interesting how you see lots of commonalities if 202 00:12:26,409 --> 00:12:29,529 you look slightly below the surface, which means that I take 203 00:12:29,529 --> 00:12:31,610 people at face value a lot of the time. 204 00:12:31,850 --> 00:12:35,289 Um and like that's really interesting. 205 00:12:35,449 --> 00:12:38,730 Like I'm not imposing the same interpretations that I would 206 00:12:38,730 --> 00:12:41,769 when I was in a full, fully consulting problem-solving um 207 00:12:41,769 --> 00:12:42,409 type career. 208 00:12:42,490 --> 00:12:44,009 My role is to listen. 209 00:12:44,809 --> 00:12:45,129 SPEAKER_00: Yeah. 210 00:12:45,449 --> 00:12:49,610 And do you think, you know, for folks who are leading teams uh 211 00:12:49,850 --> 00:12:53,689 who are listening to this, who are managing people while 212 00:12:53,689 --> 00:12:58,089 they're trying to build things, um what are some signs that 213 00:12:58,089 --> 00:13:00,409 people should uh start thinking about this? 214 00:13:00,569 --> 00:13:03,689 I think you're naming a lot of them uh now, a lot of these 215 00:13:03,689 --> 00:13:04,490 kinds of traits. 216 00:13:04,649 --> 00:13:08,809 But for a listener, you know, who should kind of be like, hmm, 217 00:13:08,969 --> 00:13:12,730 maybe I should kind of give this a thought. 218 00:13:13,129 --> 00:13:13,769 SPEAKER_01: Hmm. 219 00:13:15,769 --> 00:13:19,850 So a sense of malaise or something's wrong, but I can't 220 00:13:19,850 --> 00:13:21,449 quite put my finger on it. 221 00:13:21,689 --> 00:13:24,409 There's a mismatch, and I don't know what it is. 222 00:13:24,649 --> 00:13:27,289 It just feels like something's off. 223 00:13:27,449 --> 00:13:28,889 So trusting your gut. 224 00:13:29,370 --> 00:13:33,129 Um, and especially like we're we're all problem solvers, 225 00:13:33,289 --> 00:13:34,569 especially in the in the tech world. 226 00:13:34,649 --> 00:13:35,449 We're analytical. 227 00:13:35,529 --> 00:13:37,209 We love to solve problems. 228 00:13:37,449 --> 00:13:42,809 Um, and so uh you've tried, you've probably tried a lot of 229 00:13:42,809 --> 00:13:46,409 things and they don't work, which leads to a sense of kind 230 00:13:46,409 --> 00:13:47,370 of confusion too. 231 00:13:47,449 --> 00:13:50,250 So malaise, confusion, something isn't quite right. 232 00:13:50,409 --> 00:13:52,089 That's a sign to look into. 233 00:13:52,809 --> 00:13:54,089 Who are you now? 234 00:13:54,329 --> 00:13:59,209 What uh you know, what are the things that are energizing, but 235 00:13:59,209 --> 00:14:00,809 also that are draining to you? 236 00:14:01,049 --> 00:14:04,169 And not just what it looks like on the surface, but what are the 237 00:14:04,409 --> 00:14:08,889 um the underlying needs that this signifies. 238 00:14:09,129 --> 00:14:16,169 So for example, um, you know, return to office, like with you 239 00:14:16,169 --> 00:14:19,129 know, working in office three days a week, that sort of thing, 240 00:14:19,370 --> 00:14:23,209 is oh wow, I don't have as much time to think to myself because 241 00:14:23,209 --> 00:14:26,649 I'm not puttering around like walking the dog. 242 00:14:27,049 --> 00:14:32,730 Or um, or as we saw with work from home in early 2020, like 243 00:14:32,809 --> 00:14:36,569 the lack of transition time also impacts like your working 244 00:14:36,569 --> 00:14:38,969 memory, how much you're holding at any one time. 245 00:14:39,129 --> 00:14:42,089 So, what I'm saying here is where's the malaise? 246 00:14:42,649 --> 00:14:44,329 And then look below that. 247 00:14:44,409 --> 00:14:46,329 I mean, you can ask the five whys. 248 00:14:46,649 --> 00:14:47,929 Why is that the case? 249 00:14:48,169 --> 00:14:49,929 Why is that important to you? 250 00:14:50,169 --> 00:14:52,490 Why is this impacting you in this way? 251 00:14:53,049 --> 00:14:56,809 You know, what does that mean about your belief system? 252 00:14:57,049 --> 00:14:58,329 Um, that sort of thing. 253 00:14:58,969 --> 00:15:03,689 And then so from there, it's understanding the user because 254 00:15:03,689 --> 00:15:08,089 you're designing your life, and no decision is still a decision. 255 00:15:08,409 --> 00:15:13,370 So getting to understand who you are, what has shaped you, what 256 00:15:13,370 --> 00:15:17,370 your beliefs and values are, and what impacts you, and how your 257 00:15:17,370 --> 00:15:18,250 brain operates. 258 00:15:18,409 --> 00:15:23,209 And so through through the style of coaching that I do, there's 259 00:15:23,370 --> 00:15:27,049 we bring in various frameworks to help you understand and put 260 00:15:27,049 --> 00:15:31,449 labels on where useful, different ways of operating, how 261 00:15:31,449 --> 00:15:35,529 you process information, executive functions and contexts 262 00:15:35,610 --> 00:15:39,370 and environments, types of bandwidth and capacity that we 263 00:15:39,370 --> 00:15:40,490 have or don't have. 264 00:15:40,649 --> 00:15:44,889 Um, and then from there we can use a design thinking approach 265 00:15:45,049 --> 00:15:50,409 and iterative development to design for what works, not just 266 00:15:50,409 --> 00:15:52,009 throw spaghetti at the wall. 267 00:15:52,169 --> 00:15:54,490 And so it's intentional design and it's iterative. 268 00:15:54,649 --> 00:15:56,809 We have a hypothesis, design and experiment. 269 00:15:57,449 --> 00:16:02,730 And a huge part of that is understanding why certain things 270 00:16:02,730 --> 00:16:06,569 come easily to you so that you can reduce friction in those 271 00:16:06,569 --> 00:16:07,049 areas. 272 00:16:07,289 --> 00:16:10,089 And often things are easier for three reasons. 273 00:16:10,329 --> 00:16:13,850 One is that they're an innate strength or value that you hold. 274 00:16:14,169 --> 00:16:18,809 It is so much a part of you that you could you couldn't possibly 275 00:16:18,809 --> 00:16:19,610 not do it. 276 00:16:19,850 --> 00:16:24,569 Um the second thing is things come easily to you because 277 00:16:24,569 --> 00:16:28,889 they're acquired knowledge, wisdom, skills, ways of doing 278 00:16:28,889 --> 00:16:29,370 things. 279 00:16:30,169 --> 00:16:33,529 So you've practiced it a lot, so it's become second nature, but 280 00:16:33,529 --> 00:16:35,769 it is not in your primary nature to do so. 281 00:16:35,929 --> 00:16:41,449 Um and then the third thing is what is present or absent in 282 00:16:41,449 --> 00:16:47,209 your context or environment that makes it makes things easier for 283 00:16:47,209 --> 00:16:47,370 you. 284 00:16:47,529 --> 00:16:52,089 And it could be tools or habits or people or the type of project 285 00:16:52,250 --> 00:16:57,129 or the you know, the culture of the organization, um, you know, 286 00:16:57,370 --> 00:16:59,370 whether it's stable or not. 287 00:16:59,769 --> 00:17:02,969 And those are things which kind of calm your nervous system and 288 00:17:03,129 --> 00:17:06,410 enable your prefrontal cortex to do its thing. 289 00:17:06,730 --> 00:17:08,970 So right. 290 00:17:09,210 --> 00:17:12,329 SPEAKER_00: And and so when you work with folks, how does the 291 00:17:12,329 --> 00:17:13,930 engagement unfold? 292 00:17:14,089 --> 00:17:17,850 Do you do kind of like a diagnostic exploration and then 293 00:17:17,850 --> 00:17:20,970 develop a plan and meet with them periodically? 294 00:17:21,370 --> 00:17:22,490 How does that look? 295 00:17:24,009 --> 00:17:25,769 SPEAKER_01: Yes, I'm not a mind reader. 296 00:17:25,930 --> 00:17:29,529 So we do have a we do have a I mean, I'll work with clients for 297 00:17:29,529 --> 00:17:33,210 a minimum of four months because behaviors are sticky, but 298 00:17:33,210 --> 00:17:34,650 beliefs are even stickier. 299 00:17:34,809 --> 00:17:37,930 And when we're talking about designing a life that works for 300 00:17:37,930 --> 00:17:41,210 you, figuring out who you are, who you want to be, what version 301 00:17:41,210 --> 00:17:45,130 of you that you want to be that isn't, you know, part of um that 302 00:17:45,370 --> 00:17:48,490 isn't shame laden or deficiency driven. 303 00:17:48,730 --> 00:17:50,970 Um, so we start with a deep dive. 304 00:17:51,050 --> 00:17:55,690 It's a 90-minute session where we go deep into um what are your 305 00:17:55,690 --> 00:17:56,170 strengths? 306 00:17:56,330 --> 00:17:58,890 So there's a quick assessment, which is 80% good enough. 307 00:17:58,970 --> 00:18:02,090 It's you know, like it gives us some language and some 308 00:18:02,410 --> 00:18:08,490 nucleation points for discussion that, and it's um landscape 309 00:18:08,490 --> 00:18:09,050 analysis. 310 00:18:09,210 --> 00:18:09,850 Who are you? 311 00:18:10,009 --> 00:18:10,890 What drives you? 312 00:18:11,130 --> 00:18:14,090 What things have been challenging in the past? 313 00:18:14,890 --> 00:18:18,090 Um, why are you excited about these certain goals? 314 00:18:18,250 --> 00:18:22,650 Then we look into well, if you could wave a magic wand, what 315 00:18:22,650 --> 00:18:25,610 would your life look and feel like six months from now, a year 316 00:18:25,610 --> 00:18:26,090 from now? 317 00:18:26,330 --> 00:18:28,970 And so then we can look at that, being like, okay, well, what 318 00:18:28,970 --> 00:18:31,529 does that tell us about your underlying needs and your 319 00:18:31,529 --> 00:18:32,730 underlying values? 320 00:18:32,890 --> 00:18:36,330 It's not what it looks like, but what it feels like is the most 321 00:18:36,330 --> 00:18:36,650 important. 322 00:18:36,890 --> 00:18:39,529 And then after that, sessions are in three parts. 323 00:18:39,690 --> 00:18:43,450 Um, there's a strength-based retro because we have such a 324 00:18:43,450 --> 00:18:44,810 negativity bias. 325 00:18:45,130 --> 00:18:49,130 Like, and it's important if you're designing for strengths, 326 00:18:49,930 --> 00:18:53,930 to um to make sure that you're you have a strengths focus. 327 00:18:54,170 --> 00:18:57,290 So um people who are high achievers, who are extremely 328 00:18:57,290 --> 00:18:59,450 capable, tend to be very hard on themselves. 329 00:18:59,610 --> 00:19:02,650 So, like this this is again the sticky beliefs part. 330 00:19:02,730 --> 00:19:06,090 So, first part of each session, strengths-based retro. 331 00:19:06,250 --> 00:19:06,970 What's gone well? 332 00:19:07,130 --> 00:19:08,650 What were your keys to success? 333 00:19:08,890 --> 00:19:11,370 What can you give yourself credit for that you take for 334 00:19:11,370 --> 00:19:12,009 granted? 335 00:19:12,490 --> 00:19:15,930 Middle part of each session, what are we working on today? 336 00:19:16,170 --> 00:19:18,970 And what specifically do you want to end up with at the end 337 00:19:18,970 --> 00:19:19,850 of today's session? 338 00:19:20,009 --> 00:19:21,850 What are our metrics for success? 339 00:19:22,090 --> 00:19:24,330 It's not an open-ended discussion. 340 00:19:24,570 --> 00:19:27,690 There is a goal where we're trying to end up. 341 00:19:27,930 --> 00:19:30,490 And how will we know that we've been successful? 342 00:19:30,650 --> 00:19:33,769 This is very classical ICF style coaching. 343 00:19:34,009 --> 00:19:37,769 And through that conversation, we may bring in additional 344 00:19:37,769 --> 00:19:41,290 aspects around processing modalities, et cetera. 345 00:19:41,529 --> 00:19:46,410 But what really differentiates my coaching from a lot of others 346 00:19:46,410 --> 00:19:51,370 in the executive coaching space is the implementation plan, like 347 00:19:51,370 --> 00:19:56,570 the final part of each session, which is what are you taking 348 00:19:56,570 --> 00:19:58,970 away from this and how are you going to follow through? 349 00:19:59,210 --> 00:20:01,450 No, no, how are you really gonna follow through? 350 00:20:01,610 --> 00:20:04,009 Because this might have been a fantastically optimistic 351 00:20:04,009 --> 00:20:06,970 discussion, but especially when we think about executive 352 00:20:06,970 --> 00:20:10,170 functions, working memory, et cetera, we may have forgotten 353 00:20:10,170 --> 00:20:10,970 crucial steps. 354 00:20:11,050 --> 00:20:12,810 So, what are the obstacles? 355 00:20:13,210 --> 00:20:16,410 And then um, how can we preemptively circumvent those 356 00:20:16,410 --> 00:20:16,730 obstacles? 357 00:20:16,890 --> 00:20:18,090 Plan A, plan B. 358 00:20:18,730 --> 00:20:20,410 And then repeat. 359 00:20:20,650 --> 00:20:24,890 So in the 167 hours between sessions, which is approximately 360 00:20:24,890 --> 00:20:28,490 a week, off you go and you run this micro experiment. 361 00:20:28,570 --> 00:20:30,970 And we're co-creating that experiment together. 362 00:20:31,210 --> 00:20:36,410 It's not thou shalt do this worksheet, or go do this um, you 363 00:20:36,410 --> 00:20:39,370 know, immense habit shift, but it's an experiment. 364 00:20:39,610 --> 00:20:44,490 And the point of an experiment is to learn what assumptions no 365 00:20:44,490 --> 00:20:48,890 longer hold, or how we can adjust, or what that surface is 366 00:20:48,890 --> 00:20:51,690 about your innate strengths, your acquired strengths, or the 367 00:20:51,690 --> 00:20:52,970 environment and context. 368 00:20:53,130 --> 00:20:55,690 And it's really fun because then we iterate on that. 369 00:20:55,850 --> 00:20:57,130 Um, yeah. 370 00:20:57,450 --> 00:21:01,210 SPEAKER_00: Hope that gave you that's great. 371 00:21:01,290 --> 00:21:04,170 Um, ladies and gentlemen, we've is we've been speaking with 372 00:21:04,170 --> 00:21:05,769 Frankie Berkobin. 373 00:21:05,930 --> 00:21:10,970 Um, and we it's uh Franklyquiteadh.com. 374 00:21:11,370 --> 00:21:14,490 Uh I guess a good way to remember that is it's like quite 375 00:21:14,490 --> 00:21:15,690 frankly, but reversed. 376 00:21:16,330 --> 00:21:20,170 Um plus we've got the Frankie in there, uh really good um 377 00:21:20,410 --> 00:21:22,570 multi-uh layered uh thing there. 378 00:21:22,810 --> 00:21:28,570 Um and so uh yeah, so folks should go to uh your page and um 379 00:21:29,050 --> 00:21:30,330 book a call if they're interested. 380 00:21:30,490 --> 00:21:33,769 Is there any kind of do you produce content where people can 381 00:21:33,769 --> 00:21:36,570 take a look at that and and and hear your thoughts? 382 00:21:37,290 --> 00:21:38,090 SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah. 383 00:21:38,490 --> 00:21:40,250 My primary platform is LinkedIn. 384 00:21:40,410 --> 00:21:43,050 So you can find me at LinkedIn.com slash in slash 385 00:21:43,050 --> 00:21:44,570 Frankie Burkoban. 386 00:21:45,130 --> 00:21:49,529 And um my website is also Frankie Berkhobin.com. 387 00:21:49,690 --> 00:21:55,130 Um as as I'm moving into executive coaching uh without an 388 00:21:55,130 --> 00:21:56,090 ADHD lens. 389 00:21:56,250 --> 00:21:58,570 So there's there's two two verticals there. 390 00:21:58,730 --> 00:21:59,930 Um gotcha. 391 00:22:00,250 --> 00:22:04,009 So yeah, I would love to hear from anybody on through LinkedIn 392 00:22:04,170 --> 00:22:06,970 direct message if there's anything that resonated about 393 00:22:06,970 --> 00:22:08,330 any of this call. 394 00:22:09,370 --> 00:22:10,490 SPEAKER_00: Excellent, excellent. 395 00:22:10,650 --> 00:22:11,450 Really nice stuff. 396 00:22:11,610 --> 00:22:13,930 Well, Frankie, great talking to you today. 397 00:22:14,330 --> 00:22:15,210 SPEAKER_01: You too, Thomas. 398 00:22:15,290 --> 00:22:16,170 You're a fantastic host.