EP. 23- Stop Automating Dysfunction: The Pre-Sales & GTM Evolution with Investor Mark Nix

1 00:00:01,600 - > 00:00:02,240 SPEAKER_00: All right. 2 00:00:02,879 - > 00:00:06,240 Welcome back, everybody, to Presales Unplug, the Leadership 3 00:00:06,240 - > 00:00:06,719 Playbook. 4 00:00:06,879 - > 00:00:10,000 I'm Arvi Kirkhandi, I'm the founder of Elite Talent, and I 5 00:00:10,000 - > 00:00:12,400 primarily work with task companies to hire top-tier 6 00:00:12,400 - > 00:00:14,080 pre-sales and post-sales talent. 7 00:00:14,320 - > 00:00:16,079 But today isn't about me. 8 00:00:16,320 - > 00:00:18,879 Really, the show is about the leaders that are building the 9 00:00:18,879 - > 00:00:21,440 go-to-market teams, the pre-sales teams, and the 10 00:00:21,440 - > 00:00:24,239 strategies that actually work in today's market. 11 00:00:24,559 - > 00:00:27,120 If this is your first time joining us, one quick note 12 00:00:27,120 - > 00:00:30,320 before we jump in, these conversations, the conversations 13 00:00:30,320 - > 00:00:33,039 are live and unintentionally unedited. 14 00:00:33,200 - > 00:00:36,960 So what you hear here today is real and exactly how it 15 00:00:36,960 - > 00:00:37,359 happened. 16 00:00:37,439 - > 00:00:40,799 We stream it live, but you can obviously catch a replay on our 17 00:00:40,799 - > 00:00:45,280 podcast across Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever your 18 00:00:45,280 - > 00:00:46,799 favorite platform is that you listen. 19 00:00:47,119 - > 00:00:49,679 And of course, if you do get value from today's conversation, 20 00:00:49,840 - > 00:00:52,479 just make sure to follow, subscribe, leave us a review. 21 00:00:52,719 - > 00:00:56,159 I honestly personally read every single one of them. 22 00:00:56,399 - > 00:00:59,439 And I also make sure that if there's any questions for our 23 00:00:59,439 - > 00:01:03,359 guests afterwards, to make sure to tag them on LinkedIn or get 24 00:01:03,359 - > 00:01:06,400 the answer for you so that I can make sure to share it. 25 00:01:06,640 - > 00:01:09,920 With that being said, today I'm super excited to be joined by 26 00:01:09,920 - > 00:01:10,719 Mark Nix. 27 00:01:11,040 - > 00:01:14,640 He's somebody with a very strong track record in the space. 28 00:01:15,040 - > 00:01:18,400 Not only has it been leading teams for quite some time, but 29 00:01:18,400 - > 00:01:20,959 he's also seen the investing side of things, which I'm 30 00:01:20,959 - > 00:01:23,040 actually really excited to dive into today. 31 00:01:23,439 - > 00:01:24,640 But thank you, Mark, for being here. 32 00:01:24,719 - > 00:01:27,599 I'm very excited to hear your story and just kind of dive into 33 00:01:27,599 - > 00:01:28,400 our topic. 34 00:01:28,879 - > 00:01:29,200 SPEAKER_01: Super. 35 00:01:29,280 - > 00:01:30,159 Thank you, Arvey. 36 00:01:30,239 - > 00:01:34,239 I'm very excited to be here with you and uh let's make it happen. 37 00:01:34,719 - > 00:01:35,200 SPEAKER_00: For sure. 38 00:01:35,359 - > 00:01:38,319 Let's have some fun and of course, you know, share value. 39 00:01:38,480 - > 00:01:41,599 Um, first things first, I'd love to just honestly start a little 40 00:01:41,599 - > 00:01:44,640 bit with your story so your audience can understand where 41 00:01:44,640 - > 00:01:48,319 you're coming from a little bit and how did you end up in this 42 00:01:48,319 - > 00:01:50,079 wonderful world of pre-sales? 43 00:01:50,959 - > 00:01:51,359 SPEAKER_01: Sure. 44 00:01:51,599 - > 00:01:56,159 So um academically, uh background is physics and uh 45 00:01:56,560 - > 00:02:00,000 real passionate about how things happen and how things work. 46 00:02:00,239 - > 00:02:04,079 Um I was in the sales space, actually, with sales uh for a 47 00:02:04,079 - > 00:02:09,439 small software company, and um we also had responsibility then 48 00:02:09,439 - > 00:02:13,360 for kind of the showing and demoing of the product, and that 49 00:02:13,360 - > 00:02:13,919 grew. 50 00:02:14,000 - > 00:02:20,159 Um spent about 25 years in the ERP space, and then more of kind 51 00:02:20,159 - > 00:02:25,919 of the platform low-code, no code, and went from big 52 00:02:25,919 - > 00:02:32,159 companies to um smaller company space and really had a huge 53 00:02:32,159 - > 00:02:35,919 amount of fun in uh the smaller company size, which has kind of 54 00:02:35,919 - > 00:02:42,639 driven me to some of the things I do now, and um evolved um kind 55 00:02:42,639 - > 00:02:46,400 of into uh the VC and investment space uh where I'm a limited 56 00:02:46,400 - > 00:02:50,319 partner at uh stage two capital right now, which is a super 57 00:02:50,800 - > 00:02:54,800 exciting uh company in uh in the space. 58 00:02:55,199 - > 00:02:56,000 SPEAKER_00: I love that. 59 00:02:56,159 - > 00:02:59,840 And Mark, obviously, you've been around for quite quite some 60 00:02:59,840 - > 00:03:00,080 time. 61 00:03:00,159 - > 00:03:03,039 Uh, you've been through a lot of different cycles in your career. 62 00:03:03,280 - > 00:03:06,159 Most people, I feel like, have only maybe lived through one or 63 00:03:06,159 - > 00:03:07,759 two of those cycles. 64 00:03:08,080 - > 00:03:11,280 What patterns have you noticed that repeat themselves 65 00:03:11,360 - > 00:03:13,520 regardless of the technology? 66 00:03:14,000 - > 00:03:15,439 SPEAKER_01: So, great question. 67 00:03:15,599 - > 00:03:20,479 I'm a big fan of Jeffrey Moore and his technology cycles and 68 00:03:20,479 - > 00:03:22,240 how people buy and things like that. 69 00:03:22,319 - > 00:03:25,599 But with that, it in the SaaS space, it breaks down. 70 00:03:25,680 - > 00:03:27,199 I break it down into a couple different things. 71 00:03:27,280 - > 00:03:29,439 So, first of all, the excitement level. 72 00:03:29,599 - > 00:03:32,479 Yeah, someone has a new idea that they think that's gonna 73 00:03:32,479 - > 00:03:35,120 fundamentally change how business operates. 74 00:03:35,439 - > 00:03:37,520 Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. 75 00:03:37,599 - > 00:03:40,719 But if it gets traction, then there's always the big 76 00:03:40,719 - > 00:03:42,319 investment in capital. 77 00:03:42,879 - > 00:03:46,159 Um, and and that comes from a couple sides. 78 00:03:46,319 - > 00:03:49,759 It's not only companies getting into a space where they see an 79 00:03:49,759 - > 00:03:53,759 opportunity, uh, but it's also companies out there that have 80 00:03:53,759 - > 00:03:56,800 business issues, that see some traction, and they think that 81 00:03:56,800 - > 00:03:58,639 maybe that can solve it. 82 00:03:58,800 - > 00:04:03,599 And then we get into one of my favorites, which is FOMO, fear 83 00:04:03,599 - > 00:04:04,560 of missing out. 84 00:04:04,879 - > 00:04:09,360 And that may be a company that's looking at solutions, or it may 85 00:04:09,360 - > 00:04:12,400 be a player that you know wants to make sure they solve 86 00:04:12,400 - > 00:04:12,960 something. 87 00:04:13,199 - > 00:04:16,160 Um, and then that's where some of the craziness happens. 88 00:04:16,240 - > 00:04:20,160 You know, inflated expectations is always part of the cycle. 89 00:04:20,319 - > 00:04:26,000 So if you think about it, when you know cloud was the buzz, it 90 00:04:26,000 - > 00:04:29,600 was going to eliminate all IT complexity. 91 00:04:29,759 - > 00:04:32,000 You know, it was going to create that panacea. 92 00:04:32,480 - > 00:04:34,879 Well, we all know that that wasn't the case. 93 00:04:35,040 - > 00:04:41,839 And interestingly enough, uh, today AI is kind of in that same 94 00:04:41,839 - > 00:04:44,959 space where you know sometimes it's positioned to be the 95 00:04:44,959 - > 00:04:47,439 solution to every single business channel. 96 00:04:47,600 - > 00:04:49,839 You know, and and we all know that that's not the case. 97 00:04:50,000 - > 00:04:54,319 So, and then finally, you know, there's always the consolidation 98 00:04:54,319 - > 00:04:55,759 cycle that takes place. 99 00:04:55,920 - > 00:04:59,519 You know, there's some winners and losers, and you know, things 100 00:04:59,519 - > 00:05:03,839 commoditize, and then it's on to the next big thing and cycle. 101 00:05:03,920 - > 00:05:08,319 And and really that's happened across all the cycles I've been 102 00:05:08,319 - > 00:05:14,079 involved in, whether it's ERP or um CRM, SAS, you know, there was 103 00:05:14,079 - > 00:05:19,680 an interesting run with um kind of low-code, no-code solutions 104 00:05:19,839 - > 00:05:25,120 that then you know AI has creeped across and made a lot of 105 00:05:25,120 - > 00:05:29,600 those you know players and solutions um just not relevant 106 00:05:29,600 - > 00:05:29,920 anymore. 107 00:05:30,079 - > 00:05:30,959 So it's right. 108 00:05:31,360 - > 00:05:33,759 Everything kind of goes through that flow in that cycle, 109 00:05:34,079 - > 00:05:35,439 typically is what I see. 110 00:05:35,920 - > 00:05:37,040 SPEAKER_00: That's very interesting. 111 00:05:37,199 - > 00:05:40,399 So, what I'd love to ask is when you're evaluating whether a 112 00:05:40,399 - > 00:05:44,959 company has like a real market potential, what are kind of like 113 00:05:44,959 - > 00:05:47,759 some of the first questions you ask that quickly tells you 114 00:05:47,759 - > 00:05:51,600 whether it's something real or maybe just like noise that might 115 00:05:51,600 - > 00:05:52,480 go away? 116 00:05:52,959 - > 00:05:56,000 SPEAKER_01: So there's several questions that come to mind for 117 00:05:56,000 - > 00:06:00,160 me, and I always look from the go-to-market standpoint. 118 00:06:00,319 - > 00:06:02,079 So pretty straightforward. 119 00:06:02,319 - > 00:06:04,720 What problem are they solving? 120 00:06:05,199 - > 00:06:08,560 How painful is it, and can it be measured? 121 00:06:09,040 - > 00:06:14,240 So, you know, for for example, um, you know, maybe a solution, 122 00:06:14,399 - > 00:06:20,800 an AI solution that proactively um tracks weather and notifies a 123 00:06:20,800 - > 00:06:24,560 transportation company of delays and they've got thousands of 124 00:06:24,560 - > 00:06:25,519 orders in WIP. 125 00:06:27,360 - > 00:06:31,360 We know it's painful, we know we can measure it, and obviously 126 00:06:31,439 - > 00:06:33,120 it's very, very high value. 127 00:06:33,360 - > 00:06:36,480 Um then is the is the solution repeatable? 128 00:06:36,800 - > 00:06:40,720 So, in other words, you know, is it are there dollars and cents 129 00:06:40,720 - > 00:06:42,560 and opportunities for everyone involved? 130 00:06:42,720 - > 00:06:46,240 Because if if everything's a one-off, it's a consulting 131 00:06:46,240 - > 00:06:48,879 solution, it's not necessarily business solution. 132 00:06:49,120 - > 00:06:52,399 Um, and then kind of you know, finally, is you know, are 133 00:06:52,399 - > 00:06:55,519 businesses willing to invest to solve it? 134 00:06:55,680 - > 00:06:58,560 Yeah, because someone's gotta be willing to write a check for it. 135 00:06:58,879 - > 00:07:03,600 So, and really the strongest signals then for me finally is 136 00:07:03,759 - > 00:07:07,519 do you have a leadership team that can clearly articulate you 137 00:07:07,519 - > 00:07:12,639 know customer outcomes instead of just a CTO that's super super 138 00:07:12,639 - > 00:07:15,839 excited because they've got a cool technology? 139 00:07:16,000 - > 00:07:19,519 Yeah, and you've got to have the appropriate team then that can 140 00:07:19,519 - > 00:07:20,399 convey that. 141 00:07:20,639 - > 00:07:24,879 And then finally, you've got to be set up to scale because 142 00:07:24,879 - > 00:07:26,959 that's where the opportunity really sits. 143 00:07:27,279 - > 00:07:29,120 SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's very interesting. 144 00:07:29,360 - > 00:07:34,000 A question I have for you based off of that is is there like I 145 00:07:34,000 - > 00:07:37,600 guess how how would a company know if it's too early to come 146 00:07:37,600 - > 00:07:40,000 in front of a VC versus not? 147 00:07:40,399 - > 00:07:43,759 Like if being, I mean, I would assume there's some times where 148 00:07:43,759 - > 00:07:46,720 the idea is really that good that you don't necessarily need 149 00:07:46,720 - > 00:07:49,680 sales to prove it, or I guess how are you guys evaluating if 150 00:07:49,680 - > 00:07:52,319 it's too early versus you know the right time? 151 00:07:53,040 - > 00:07:58,240 SPEAKER_01: Well, when I look at it how we evaluate and look, we 152 00:07:58,240 - > 00:08:02,480 want someone that um has a certain amount of a track 153 00:08:02,480 - > 00:08:03,040 record. 154 00:08:03,360 - > 00:08:08,480 Okay, they have customers, andor at least they have you know what 155 00:08:08,480 - > 00:08:11,360 I would refer to as development partners. 156 00:08:11,439 - > 00:08:15,439 You know, they may have um you know some signed letters of 157 00:08:15,439 - > 00:08:20,959 engagement with X number of people that um are excited and 158 00:08:20,959 - > 00:08:24,800 willing to invest and support a go-to-market, and and then you 159 00:08:24,800 - > 00:08:27,519 determine the kind of assistance they may happen to need. 160 00:08:27,920 - > 00:08:31,600 Is the value prop really unique? 161 00:08:31,839 - > 00:08:32,799 Is it focused? 162 00:08:32,960 - > 00:08:38,399 Is it a niche industry, um, you know, maybe business issue that 163 00:08:38,720 - > 00:08:41,519 you can see there's traction opportunity for everyone? 164 00:08:42,080 - > 00:08:42,960 SPEAKER_00: Very cool. 165 00:08:43,200 - > 00:08:43,919 That's awesome. 166 00:08:44,080 - > 00:08:45,679 Yeah, I appreciate you sharing that. 167 00:08:45,840 - > 00:08:48,240 Uh, one thing that we were talking about offline, you 168 00:08:48,240 - > 00:08:51,759 mentioned the automating automating dysfunction, and you 169 00:08:51,759 - > 00:08:54,720 said that technology without process is really just 170 00:08:54,720 - > 00:08:56,399 automating dysfunction. 171 00:08:56,720 - > 00:09:00,240 How would you say can we help leaders you know recognize when 172 00:09:00,240 - > 00:09:03,360 their organization is doing exactly that and how can they 173 00:09:03,360 - > 00:09:06,559 fix it before they scale the wrong thing? 174 00:09:07,200 - > 00:09:09,759 SPEAKER_01: Well, part of that is tied to having the right 175 00:09:09,759 - > 00:09:12,960 business partners to be able to help them, but back to the 176 00:09:12,960 - > 00:09:17,200 original point: most failed transformations and deployments 177 00:09:17,840 - > 00:09:21,360 are process failures, they're not technology failures, at 178 00:09:21,360 - > 00:09:25,039 least if there's a level of competency and maturity. 179 00:09:25,679 - > 00:09:29,039 It's key that the process that's done under consideration for 180 00:09:29,039 - > 00:09:35,600 automation is the right process, and you're not trying to 181 00:09:36,240 - > 00:09:38,720 automate a bad process. 182 00:09:39,039 - > 00:09:44,960 And unfortunately, you know, that can be the case where AI is 183 00:09:44,960 - > 00:09:47,759 going to solve, you know, save the world, or a particular 184 00:09:47,759 - > 00:09:50,399 technology is going to save the world. 185 00:09:50,559 - > 00:09:53,919 And it's actually kind of set up an interesting trend in the 186 00:09:53,919 - > 00:10:00,480 marketplace that companies that have a strong sales motion that 187 00:10:00,480 - > 00:10:06,879 relies on value engineering in the discovery process. 188 00:10:07,679 - > 00:10:11,200 And um, you know, you see more and more, you know, where 189 00:10:11,279 - > 00:10:14,399 companies talk about in their go-to-market of a proof of 190 00:10:14,399 - > 00:10:15,039 value. 191 00:10:15,519 - > 00:10:21,919 So, how do we ensure it's the right process, optimized in the 192 00:10:21,919 - > 00:10:27,279 right way, and then truly proving that out as to how it 193 00:10:27,279 - > 00:10:33,120 meets a customer's needs, and that helps you avoid that 194 00:10:34,080 - > 00:10:36,480 automating you know, something that shouldn't be. 195 00:10:37,200 - > 00:10:41,279 I'll give you a great kind of historical example that kind of 196 00:10:41,279 - > 00:10:42,559 dates me a little bit. 197 00:10:42,799 - > 00:10:45,519 Back in the back in the day, there was something called 198 00:10:45,519 - > 00:10:50,320 finite capacity planning, which would take manufacturing work 199 00:10:50,320 - > 00:10:56,399 orders and optimize them into the perfect schedule. 200 00:10:56,960 - > 00:11:01,279 But you know, they would need to rely on a bill of material and 201 00:11:01,519 - > 00:11:03,840 you know a manufacturing definition. 202 00:11:04,240 - > 00:11:08,000 The majority of the time, most companies didn't have the level 203 00:11:08,000 - > 00:11:11,679 of accuracy they needed in their bill of material or andor in 204 00:11:11,679 - > 00:11:13,279 their manufacturing definition. 205 00:11:13,600 - > 00:11:17,840 So the what what I described is that you know that train is just 206 00:11:17,840 - > 00:11:23,759 going to hit the wall ten times faster because you don't have 207 00:11:23,759 - > 00:11:25,200 some of the basics down. 208 00:11:26,240 - > 00:11:30,559 Good data, good governments, you know, in that case, just an 209 00:11:30,559 - > 00:11:33,279 accurate bill of material and bill of resource. 210 00:11:33,360 - > 00:11:37,200 So it's it's it all kind of operates you know along the same 211 00:11:37,200 - > 00:11:37,440 lines. 212 00:11:37,600 - > 00:11:41,200 You gotta get the process right, you gotta get the re-engineering 213 00:11:41,519 - > 00:11:44,320 right, and then you can optimize and automate it. 214 00:11:45,279 - > 00:11:47,360 SPEAKER_00: You know, one thing that comes to mind as you're 215 00:11:47,360 - > 00:11:51,200 saying this is obviously the startup world is like we always 216 00:11:51,200 - > 00:11:52,960 uh say it's chaotic, right? 217 00:11:53,039 - > 00:11:55,600 Because there's no systems, there's no processes yet. 218 00:11:55,679 - > 00:11:58,000 Well, maybe there is some systems and you know they're 219 00:11:58,000 - > 00:11:59,919 trying to implement processes. 220 00:12:00,720 - > 00:12:05,120 When you're growing a startup, is there like I guess what are 221 00:12:05,120 - > 00:12:08,480 your must-have like foundational things that you need to know, 222 00:12:08,559 - > 00:12:11,919 whether it's a leader or business owner, that you just 223 00:12:11,919 - > 00:12:14,879 can skip even as a startup? 224 00:12:15,679 - > 00:12:19,679 SPEAKER_01: So from my perspective, that's where you've 225 00:12:19,679 - > 00:12:23,120 got an opportunity to rely on third parties. 226 00:12:23,440 - > 00:12:28,240 You know, if if you're a founder, who is your mentor? 227 00:12:28,799 - > 00:12:34,960 Who are the external eyes and ears that you look at that um 228 00:12:35,679 - > 00:12:40,159 kind of help clear the air of what may you know be perceived 229 00:12:40,159 - > 00:12:43,279 to be our art artificial exuberance and and things like 230 00:12:43,279 - > 00:12:43,440 that? 231 00:12:43,759 - > 00:12:48,879 So it goes back to you know those four to five questions, 232 00:12:49,519 - > 00:12:52,159 what are you solving and down that path. 233 00:12:52,320 - > 00:12:55,440 And and then finally, and actually something that's being 234 00:12:55,440 - > 00:13:02,320 written a lot more about is how do you properly scale everyone 235 00:13:02,320 - > 00:13:06,879 gets into the game for the most part these days, you've got this 236 00:13:06,879 - > 00:13:10,080 artificial exuberance and they're looking for this exit. 237 00:13:10,720 - > 00:13:16,799 Yeah, there's a path you need to be methodical about it from 238 00:13:16,799 - > 00:13:18,320 that, you know, from that perspective. 239 00:13:18,559 - > 00:13:23,039 If you take in too much capital, you know, you dilute your 240 00:13:23,200 - > 00:13:25,039 holdings and all of those things. 241 00:13:25,360 - > 00:13:30,000 So net net to bring it back full cycle, take advantage of 242 00:13:30,000 - > 00:13:34,240 mentors, take advantage of external resources, people that 243 00:13:34,240 - > 00:13:39,120 have done it before, if you have not, to ensure that you know 244 00:13:39,200 - > 00:13:41,440 you're not making the repeatable mistakes. 245 00:13:41,759 - > 00:13:42,559 SPEAKER_00: That's very true. 246 00:13:42,639 - > 00:13:46,080 And I I think one of the biggest things that is a founder 247 00:13:46,240 - > 00:13:48,240 mistake, and obviously, you know, being a business owner 248 00:13:48,240 - > 00:13:52,000 myself, is when you're sitting in the seat itself and in a way 249 00:13:52,080 - > 00:13:55,600 you're driving, it's kind of hard to see the full picture of 250 00:13:55,600 - > 00:13:56,320 everything, right? 251 00:13:56,399 - > 00:14:00,080 So those mentorships, those advisors or fractional leaders 252 00:14:00,080 - > 00:14:02,480 that you're hiring really help you see because they're seeing 253 00:14:02,480 - > 00:14:06,000 it from in a way uh a different seed, you know, higher up, 254 00:14:06,080 - > 00:14:09,039 they're seeing the full picture versus you're just kind of 255 00:14:09,039 - > 00:14:11,440 focusing on the driving as you're going. 256 00:14:11,679 - > 00:14:15,200 So I do agree that mentorship is very, very important as a 257 00:14:15,200 - > 00:14:15,600 founder. 258 00:14:15,679 - > 00:14:17,840 I mean, no matter what kind of business you're in. 259 00:14:18,240 - > 00:14:22,480 SPEAKER_01: Well, and and and the final thing is none of this 260 00:14:22,480 - > 00:14:23,279 is new. 261 00:14:24,720 - > 00:14:30,960 We live, we live and operate in a um you know, startup, 262 00:14:31,200 - > 00:14:32,879 entrepreneurial world and space. 263 00:14:32,960 - > 00:14:36,480 And actually, the you know, we were talking a little earlier 264 00:14:36,480 - > 00:14:39,919 about my internet challenges that I had last night in a book 265 00:14:39,919 - > 00:14:41,919 that I that I picked up and was reading. 266 00:14:42,000 - > 00:14:47,120 And it's called Um Unlikely Entrepreneurs, um, wins, losses, 267 00:14:47,200 - > 00:14:52,080 and crucial crucial lessons building great companies, and 268 00:14:52,080 - > 00:14:57,360 it's all about stories of different startups, different 269 00:14:57,360 - > 00:15:01,600 founders, what they've done, what has worked, what hasn't 270 00:15:01,600 - > 00:15:02,240 worked. 271 00:15:02,879 - > 00:15:03,279 Yeah. 272 00:15:04,240 - > 00:15:07,200 There's lots of players and lots of opportunities for it. 273 00:15:07,519 - > 00:15:08,320 SPEAKER_00: Very true. 274 00:15:08,639 - > 00:15:11,360 Speaking of that, um, it's actually a great segue to my 275 00:15:11,360 - > 00:15:16,000 next question is right now with AI, everything is moving faster, 276 00:15:16,080 - > 00:15:16,320 right? 277 00:15:16,399 - > 00:15:20,159 You are able to start a business faster than it ever was before. 278 00:15:20,480 - > 00:15:23,759 But with that, I feel like the hardest part is differentiation. 279 00:15:23,840 - > 00:15:24,960 It's getting harder. 280 00:15:25,200 - > 00:15:27,519 Features are getting copied so fast. 281 00:15:27,840 - > 00:15:31,840 I mean, how, in your opinion, what is like a meaningful 282 00:15:31,840 - > 00:15:35,840 differentiation look like right now for a company that they're 283 00:15:35,840 - > 00:15:39,200 trying to stand out versus something that you know it's not 284 00:15:39,200 - > 00:15:41,679 necessarily going to stick around for too long? 285 00:15:42,559 - > 00:15:43,840 SPEAKER_01: Great question. 286 00:15:44,159 - > 00:15:48,960 So features and specifically AI capabilities, already we're 287 00:15:48,960 - > 00:15:51,039 seeing them become table stakes. 288 00:15:51,600 - > 00:15:53,519 There's a lot of buzz around it. 289 00:15:53,679 - > 00:15:57,440 Um, some people are delivering value, some aren't, but 290 00:15:57,440 - > 00:16:04,320 sustainable differentiation ultimately comes from successful 291 00:16:04,320 - > 00:16:08,080 customer experience that you can bring to the table in addition 292 00:16:08,080 - > 00:16:09,120 to the solution. 293 00:16:09,440 - > 00:16:10,960 People buy from people. 294 00:16:11,200 - > 00:16:15,200 What's your ecosystem background that you you know that you're 295 00:16:15,200 - > 00:16:16,080 able to provide? 296 00:16:16,320 - > 00:16:21,039 Do you have proof of adoption of your solution and ultimately 297 00:16:21,200 - > 00:16:22,559 measurable outcomes? 298 00:16:22,799 - > 00:16:25,919 Okay, no one's doing this for fun. 299 00:16:26,080 - > 00:16:29,360 You know, you're looking to be able to solve problems. 300 00:16:29,840 - > 00:16:35,279 Um for years, you know, software companies competed on product 301 00:16:35,279 - > 00:16:38,080 innovation who had the next bell and whistle. 302 00:16:38,320 - > 00:16:42,639 I remember when I worked for a company, and again, this goes 303 00:16:42,639 - > 00:16:47,039 way back, that didn't have net change MRP. 304 00:16:47,759 - > 00:16:50,720 We thought the world was gonna come to an end. 305 00:16:51,120 - > 00:16:56,879 No one cares about net change capability because the 306 00:16:56,879 - > 00:17:00,080 horsepower is out there to be able to run you know things like 307 00:17:00,080 - > 00:17:00,240 that. 308 00:17:00,320 - > 00:17:02,320 So it's so it's all change. 309 00:17:02,799 - > 00:17:07,200 Um, and today innovation is moving faster than custom 310 00:17:07,599 - > 00:17:11,599 customers can adopt those innovations. 311 00:17:11,839 - > 00:17:13,599 And it's really important to understand that. 312 00:17:13,759 - > 00:17:17,039 So the real competitive advantage again fundamentally 313 00:17:17,039 - > 00:17:24,559 comes down to, I believe, a company's ability to solve 314 00:17:24,559 - > 00:17:28,799 customers' problems with those technologies. 315 00:17:29,200 - > 00:17:33,359 And and again, back to you know, we we talked about you know some 316 00:17:33,359 - > 00:17:37,200 of the buzz we're seeing with proof of values, and that's 317 00:17:37,200 - > 00:17:40,240 where the demo isn't good enough anymore. 318 00:17:40,559 - > 00:17:43,680 Okay, just you know, that's that's table stakes. 319 00:17:43,759 - > 00:17:46,400 As a matter of fact, they don't even want to see a demo because 320 00:17:46,400 - > 00:17:50,000 they expect that all the research that they did, you 321 00:17:50,000 - > 00:17:52,720 know, they want and they asked Claude. 322 00:17:52,880 - > 00:17:57,519 So who is you know the best provider to do this, this, and 323 00:17:57,519 - > 00:17:57,839 this? 324 00:17:58,400 - > 00:18:01,759 And you know, show me demos. 325 00:18:02,559 - > 00:18:05,759 So if you're not out there, if you don't have those things, 326 00:18:06,079 - > 00:18:10,799 okay, it's a new world, it's a new world. 327 00:18:11,039 - > 00:18:15,200 Um you know, proof of concept doesn't provide differentiation 328 00:18:15,200 - > 00:18:15,759 anymore. 329 00:18:16,160 - > 00:18:18,720 Okay, that used to be the big play. 330 00:18:19,119 - > 00:18:22,799 Because at the end of the day, you know, a proof of concept 331 00:18:22,960 - > 00:18:26,079 addresses can a technology do what the vendor said it would 332 00:18:26,079 - > 00:18:26,319 do? 333 00:18:28,160 - > 00:18:34,400 Proof of value takes that dramatically to the next level. 334 00:18:35,279 - > 00:18:39,599 Not only does the technology work, does the technology work 335 00:18:40,799 - > 00:18:44,640 using my data and my environment? 336 00:18:45,519 - > 00:18:51,200 So they almost want to implement it as as part of the sales 337 00:18:51,200 - > 00:18:52,160 cycle. 338 00:18:52,799 - > 00:19:00,400 If you can do that, if you can cross that line in the kind of 339 00:19:00,400 - > 00:19:05,839 what the buyer's journey is now, that is real differentiation. 340 00:19:06,720 - > 00:19:10,559 And what I think is interesting and exciting about that is it's 341 00:19:10,559 - > 00:19:16,640 not about the technology, it's about the go to market, and it's 342 00:19:16,640 - > 00:19:17,759 how you execute. 343 00:19:18,640 - > 00:19:19,039 SPEAKER_00: Yeah. 344 00:19:19,599 - > 00:19:21,599 SPEAKER_01: At the end of the day, companies are only gonna do 345 00:19:21,599 - > 00:19:25,039 that with with one partner, it isn't gonna be like what you 346 00:19:25,039 - > 00:19:25,759 used to do. 347 00:19:25,920 - > 00:19:29,519 Oh, okay, we're gonna do the RFP and we're gonna see five demos. 348 00:19:31,759 - > 00:19:35,440 You're gonna decide pretty early on in the evaluation of a 349 00:19:35,440 - > 00:19:35,759 partner. 350 00:19:36,160 - > 00:19:38,400 Hey, we're gonna do a proof of value. 351 00:19:39,039 - > 00:19:41,519 Yeah, not gonna do four of them. 352 00:19:42,400 - > 00:19:47,279 So it again, it really becomes a good market differentiator. 353 00:19:47,839 - > 00:19:50,480 SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's that's very that's very good. 354 00:19:50,559 - > 00:19:51,759 And I I agree with it. 355 00:19:51,839 - > 00:19:53,599 I mean, it's it's really hard. 356 00:19:53,680 - > 00:19:57,519 Um, even the products right now, like you can, you know, search 357 00:19:57,519 - > 00:19:59,839 for one thing and get 10 different answers. 358 00:20:00,079 - > 00:20:02,400 At the end of the day, it's gonna come down to the people 359 00:20:02,400 - > 00:20:03,359 that you're talking to. 360 00:20:03,440 - > 00:20:06,559 And did they provide the value that you're that you're looking 361 00:20:06,559 - > 00:20:06,720 for? 362 00:20:06,799 - > 00:20:09,119 And obviously, you know, I see that uh with the buying eye 363 00:20:09,200 - > 00:20:11,680 myself is on buying products or software, you know. 364 00:20:11,839 - > 00:20:13,599 Um, so totally agree with that. 365 00:20:13,839 - > 00:20:17,119 Is there uh based on like just your experience and what you've 366 00:20:17,119 - > 00:20:20,880 seen right now in terms of startups or just go-to-market 367 00:20:21,039 - > 00:20:23,680 differentiation, is there anything that you've seen right 368 00:20:23,680 - > 00:20:27,440 now that's like maybe really working well without you know 369 00:20:27,680 - > 00:20:30,079 busting any secrets or anything like that? 370 00:20:30,720 - > 00:20:35,200 SPEAKER_01: No, I I think it's the really the fundamental that 371 00:20:35,200 - > 00:20:36,480 we just talked through. 372 00:20:36,799 - > 00:20:43,279 I believe that everyone's got a commodity of technology, and it 373 00:20:43,279 - > 00:20:51,440 may be unbelievably innovative, but the secret sauce is the 374 00:20:51,440 - > 00:20:57,920 execution in the go-to-market because in enterprise sales, 375 00:20:58,000 - > 00:21:02,480 anyway, people buy from people, you know, they may be buying 376 00:21:02,480 - > 00:21:06,160 from a founder, and there's confidence and and whatever that 377 00:21:06,160 - > 00:21:06,720 may be. 378 00:21:07,039 - > 00:21:16,000 So out-execute your competitors, yeah, and you'll do well. 379 00:21:16,720 - > 00:21:18,960 SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, that's that's fair. 380 00:21:19,200 - > 00:21:22,720 I wanted to shift focus a little bit to the pre-sales, and as 381 00:21:22,720 - > 00:21:25,839 we're talking about customer value, you've obviously spent a 382 00:21:25,839 - > 00:21:28,720 significant part of your career leading like solution 383 00:21:28,720 - > 00:21:30,000 engineering organizations. 384 00:21:30,559 - > 00:21:34,319 How has that role changed from when you started to, in a way, 385 00:21:34,400 - > 00:21:38,000 what's expected today from either the department or 386 00:21:38,000 - > 00:21:40,319 leadership itself in terms of pre sales? 387 00:21:40,880 - > 00:21:45,279 SPEAKER_01: No, it's you know crazy the amount of change. 388 00:21:45,359 - > 00:21:49,759 I mean, there, you know, there's some fundamentals in what here's 389 00:21:49,839 - > 00:21:54,240 what hasn't changed a pre sales or solution engineer's 390 00:21:54,240 - > 00:21:58,720 responsibility is to help a customer. 391 00:22:00,319 - > 00:22:06,400 See solutions to their issues in your solutions. 392 00:22:07,279 - > 00:22:08,720 That hasn't changed. 393 00:22:09,279 - > 00:22:12,319 It's how you do that that has changed. 394 00:22:12,880 - > 00:22:15,599 So obviously, we've been talking about the role has evolved from 395 00:22:15,599 - > 00:22:19,680 just product demonstrations and supporting processes. 396 00:22:20,000 - > 00:22:22,160 It's all about business transformation. 397 00:22:22,799 - > 00:22:26,480 20 years ago, it was only about the demo. 398 00:22:27,200 - > 00:22:28,880 We still want them to do that. 399 00:22:29,680 - > 00:22:32,960 We want to capture it and we want to make it available on 400 00:22:32,960 - > 00:22:33,599 demand. 401 00:22:34,160 - > 00:22:37,839 So that when you're out looking for your next solution and 402 00:22:37,839 - > 00:22:42,799 you're doing some research at two o'clock in the morning, and 403 00:22:42,799 - > 00:22:48,799 you ask Chat GPT for demos to such and such, that best in 404 00:22:48,799 - > 00:22:54,559 class demo and that content is there and available, but it's 405 00:22:54,559 - > 00:22:57,920 not a matter of that you're going to have an SC do that. 406 00:22:58,079 - > 00:23:02,559 So with that, we're seeing a huge amount of specialization 407 00:23:02,559 - > 00:23:06,160 across the entire go-to-market organizations because there's a 408 00:23:06,160 - > 00:23:11,920 lot of blurring as to what is pre-sales, um, you know, does it 409 00:23:11,920 - > 00:23:16,720 include some customer success, all different kinds of things. 410 00:23:16,799 - > 00:23:20,160 So that's pretty that's been changing pretty dramatically and 411 00:23:20,160 - > 00:23:21,759 very, very rapidly. 412 00:23:22,000 - > 00:23:25,920 Um, value engineering has been around for a while, it's just a 413 00:23:25,920 - > 00:23:26,880 specialization. 414 00:23:27,519 - > 00:23:32,559 Um, you know, demo engineers, it's not uncommon to see um 415 00:23:32,880 - > 00:23:36,640 pre-sales um supporting an enablement. 416 00:23:37,359 - > 00:23:43,680 The new kind of buzz term, so to speak, you know, is uh the uh 417 00:23:43,680 - > 00:23:47,839 the FDE or forward deployed engineering teams. 418 00:23:48,000 - > 00:23:48,400 SPEAKER_02: Yeah. 419 00:23:48,720 - > 00:23:52,720 SPEAKER_01: Which in reality, that's the start of some of the 420 00:23:52,720 - > 00:23:57,200 blur that's taking place between what's pre-sales and post-sales. 421 00:23:57,759 - > 00:24:02,960 Um, because at the end of the day, the customer doesn't care 422 00:24:03,279 - > 00:24:06,880 where the sale ends and the implementation begins. 423 00:24:07,440 - > 00:24:12,559 They they've got to focus their definition of success, you know, 424 00:24:12,640 - > 00:24:17,440 the the CEO, the CFO that makes a decision is when they see 425 00:24:17,440 - > 00:24:20,799 themselves getting business value out of that. 426 00:24:21,200 - > 00:24:25,920 And the hey, if we've got the pre-sales team, and then they do 427 00:24:25,920 - > 00:24:31,200 a handoff to a post-sales team, and then regardless of how good 428 00:24:31,200 - > 00:24:35,519 that term that handoff is from one group to the other, you 429 00:24:35,519 - > 00:24:38,880 know, an implementation team can't come in and say, All 430 00:24:38,880 - > 00:24:44,400 right, we're so excited to be here to implement new solution 431 00:24:44,640 - > 00:24:44,960 A. 432 00:24:46,079 - > 00:24:49,920 So let's start talking about how you run your business and what 433 00:24:49,920 - > 00:24:54,000 your business issues are, and that's been going on for 434 00:24:54,000 - > 00:24:54,640 decades. 435 00:24:55,279 - > 00:24:58,960 Yeah, not acceptable anymore. 436 00:24:59,359 - > 00:25:06,240 And that's why you know we see this blurring taking place. 437 00:25:06,799 - > 00:25:15,759 That's why typically a uh FDE team or FDE engineers, they're 438 00:25:15,759 - > 00:25:19,519 taking that configuration to the next level. 439 00:25:19,839 - > 00:25:23,920 They may even be doing it in a customer's environment. 440 00:25:24,559 - > 00:25:32,319 You know, so it's there's a big shift because there's a lack of 441 00:25:32,319 - > 00:25:32,559 trust. 442 00:25:32,640 - > 00:25:36,559 You know, we used to joke and say, oh, well, you know, when 443 00:25:36,559 - > 00:25:37,279 did you see that? 444 00:25:37,440 - > 00:25:40,000 Oh, well, that was in the demo. 445 00:25:42,240 - > 00:25:42,880 SPEAKER_00: Yeah. 446 00:25:43,279 - > 00:25:43,680 Yeah. 447 00:25:44,000 - > 00:25:46,799 I think it's uh for sure. 448 00:25:47,039 - > 00:25:50,400 I was gonna say, in terms of the FDE role, like the four deployed 449 00:25:50,400 - > 00:25:54,400 engineers, first of all, there's been a 700% increase in 450 00:25:54,400 - > 00:25:58,640 companies hiring for FDEs, which is a very interesting fact I 451 00:25:58,640 - > 00:25:59,519 learned the other day. 452 00:25:59,599 - > 00:26:03,519 And it's I feel like, and kind of like what you mentioned, is 453 00:26:03,599 - > 00:26:06,000 first of all, that's been around for a long time. 454 00:26:06,160 - > 00:26:10,079 Um, second of all, we just change it to a new name now. 455 00:26:10,400 - > 00:26:13,359 Okay, cool, you know, like it used to be called maybe 456 00:26:13,359 - > 00:26:16,079 implementation engineer or something along those lines or 457 00:26:16,079 - > 00:26:17,599 integration engineer. 458 00:26:17,920 - > 00:26:21,920 And I feel like some companies have shouldn't even be calling 459 00:26:21,920 - > 00:26:25,920 it a forward deployed engineer because the title itself now is 460 00:26:26,480 - > 00:26:30,240 more expensive than the actual work that they're hiring for. 461 00:26:30,480 - > 00:26:33,279 And I think sometimes they don't understand, like I don't know, 462 00:26:33,440 - > 00:26:36,000 maybe just sounds cool to be hiring for a forward deployed 463 00:26:36,000 - > 00:26:39,519 engineer, unless they're truly doing like what a forward 464 00:26:39,680 - > 00:26:40,880 deployed engineer should be doing. 465 00:26:41,039 - > 00:26:43,839 Because sometimes I'll be jumping on calls and with 466 00:26:43,839 - > 00:26:46,480 potential clients and they're just describing to me what a 467 00:26:46,480 - > 00:26:50,000 post-sales like implementation person would do that's not 468 00:26:50,000 - > 00:26:52,400 necessarily a forward deployed engineer. 469 00:26:52,799 - > 00:26:54,799 So I thought that was an interesting fact. 470 00:26:54,960 - > 00:26:58,640 And I always encourage companies to, you know, really take a look 471 00:26:58,640 - > 00:27:00,880 at like what is that person going to do? 472 00:27:01,119 - > 00:27:04,079 Define your must-haves versus nice to have's. 473 00:27:04,319 - > 00:27:07,279 And just because it's a cool trendy title, you know, doesn't 474 00:27:07,279 - > 00:27:09,759 mean you should be paying more money for that person versus 475 00:27:09,759 - > 00:27:12,559 like somebody that's already been around for that long. 476 00:27:12,960 - > 00:27:15,359 SPEAKER_01: I that's a great point. 477 00:27:15,680 - > 00:27:20,160 And what I would kind of suggest that part of the conversation 478 00:27:20,160 - > 00:27:26,319 needs to be is what is the shift that's taken place in your sales 479 00:27:26,319 - > 00:27:32,160 motion that is driving you for this need. 480 00:27:32,559 - > 00:27:32,880 SPEAKER_02: Right. 481 00:27:33,519 - > 00:27:37,920 SPEAKER_01: From my standpoint, yeah, you you think of you know 482 00:27:38,160 - > 00:27:43,519 of an FDE and what's that skill set, you know, they could be and 483 00:27:43,519 - > 00:27:47,680 could have a skill set kind of of what a demo engineer was that 484 00:27:47,680 - > 00:27:54,079 was building very customized solutions for a solution 485 00:27:54,079 - > 00:27:55,920 engineer to demo and show. 486 00:27:56,319 - > 00:27:59,519 The other side of it though is that if your business model is 487 00:27:59,519 - > 00:28:06,319 actually to be deploying um in a customer's infrastructure, yeah, 488 00:28:06,480 - > 00:28:11,839 then I do want someone with implementation level skills, 489 00:28:12,160 - > 00:28:14,640 yeah, governance, and and and all of those things. 490 00:28:14,799 - > 00:28:21,359 But it starts to go to um you know, what's the model, what's 491 00:28:21,359 - > 00:28:23,599 the skill set that's needed. 492 00:28:23,920 - > 00:28:28,400 In my opinion, the important part is to focus on what is the 493 00:28:28,400 - > 00:28:34,640 team of people that are needed to support that evolution and 494 00:28:34,640 - > 00:28:39,279 move from a POC environment to a POV environment. 495 00:28:40,480 - > 00:28:44,319 And then you can sort out kind of who's who in the zoo and and 496 00:28:44,319 - > 00:28:45,839 and what it takes to do it. 497 00:28:46,240 - > 00:28:47,759 SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, very true. 498 00:28:47,920 - > 00:28:50,720 And you mentioned this a little bit already, but I wanted to 499 00:28:50,720 - > 00:28:52,160 dive a little bit further into it. 500 00:28:52,319 - > 00:28:55,119 The the pre-sales and the post-sales lines are kind of 501 00:28:55,119 - > 00:28:55,920 blurring, right? 502 00:28:56,000 - > 00:28:59,440 We we do have a lot of startups that are hiring for somebody to 503 00:28:59,440 - > 00:29:00,720 be doing both. 504 00:29:00,880 - > 00:29:04,160 Um, or you know, obviously, as you grow a little bit more, then 505 00:29:04,160 - > 00:29:07,279 you can not necessarily just afford, but you know, you can 506 00:29:07,279 - > 00:29:08,720 split those roles up. 507 00:29:08,880 - > 00:29:12,319 Do you feel like we're moving towards more of a unified like 508 00:29:12,319 - > 00:29:13,920 customer-facing function? 509 00:29:14,160 - > 00:29:17,519 Or how do you see like the pre- and post-sales you know, 510 00:29:17,759 - > 00:29:19,839 functions moving forward? 511 00:29:20,480 - > 00:29:24,799 SPEAKER_01: Well, I think it it depends upon a particular 512 00:29:24,799 - > 00:29:30,960 company's business model and where is in their looking to 513 00:29:30,960 - > 00:29:40,000 scale early on, okay, the person that demos um absolutely could 514 00:29:40,000 - > 00:29:44,000 be implementing because the reality of it is that they could 515 00:29:44,000 - > 00:29:46,880 be a product manager, they could be, you know, they're wearing a 516 00:29:46,880 - > 00:29:49,279 huge number of different hats. 517 00:29:50,079 - > 00:29:56,400 Um I think the POV, you know, you look at POVs and you look at 518 00:29:56,400 - > 00:30:00,240 some of this blurring that's taking place, where that pivot 519 00:30:00,240 - > 00:30:04,079 is really stronger, is in the larger enterprise companies. 520 00:30:04,319 - > 00:30:10,720 So, for example, in uh my last companies where we did it and 521 00:30:10,720 - > 00:30:15,519 the lines were blurring, our reason for blurring them was is 522 00:30:15,680 - > 00:30:19,519 we wanted to ensure that we were driving, you know, it's a term 523 00:30:19,519 - > 00:30:22,559 that I use a lot, which is customer value realization, 524 00:30:22,880 - > 00:30:28,079 which starting in the sales cycle, what what were the goals, 525 00:30:28,240 - > 00:30:32,559 what was the vision, what were the business issues, and then 526 00:30:32,559 - > 00:30:37,279 ensure that um contract execution and what it takes to 527 00:30:37,279 - > 00:30:42,400 get to contract execution is you know just part of that golf 528 00:30:42,640 - > 00:30:43,279 swing. 529 00:30:43,599 - > 00:30:49,279 Okay, in in this day and age, customers don't want to like 530 00:30:49,519 - > 00:30:55,279 feel this oof, you know, we signed a contract, and now we're 531 00:30:55,279 - > 00:30:56,400 starting over again. 532 00:30:56,720 - > 00:31:02,240 Yeah, so the reason we went down a path, and I've gone down that 533 00:31:02,240 - > 00:31:09,519 that path, is you want to ensure that the outcome and the 534 00:31:09,519 - > 00:31:14,000 delivery of value is as hiccup free as possible. 535 00:31:14,480 - > 00:31:21,119 And that doesn't mean that hey, a solution engineer um then is 536 00:31:21,279 - > 00:31:23,039 involved in a go live. 537 00:31:23,279 - > 00:31:27,200 But what it means from my perspective is that they're 538 00:31:27,200 - > 00:31:34,559 involved well into um the design phase and you know some of those 539 00:31:34,559 - > 00:31:35,039 early points. 540 00:31:35,200 - > 00:31:37,599 It's gonna depend upon your technology, it's gonna depend 541 00:31:37,599 - > 00:31:42,640 upon the solution, but continuity um all the way out to 542 00:31:42,640 - > 00:31:46,400 the go live and gaining value, that's how you differentiate 543 00:31:46,400 - > 00:31:47,599 yourself in the marketplace. 544 00:31:47,759 - > 00:31:53,279 I've seen that be very effective in a competitive differentiation 545 00:31:53,279 - > 00:31:56,319 strategy because you know you'll you'll have a prospect that's 546 00:31:56,319 - > 00:32:00,480 like, oh, okay, so this is how this company operates. 547 00:32:00,799 - > 00:32:09,519 Or oh, so they introduced me to a totally separate 548 00:32:10,079 - > 00:32:12,960 implementation team and they're gonna come and meet me and they 549 00:32:12,960 - > 00:32:14,319 will learn about my business. 550 00:32:14,480 - > 00:32:16,160 That just doesn't apply anymore. 551 00:32:16,319 - > 00:32:17,440 It doesn't fly. 552 00:32:17,839 - > 00:32:19,200 SPEAKER_00: No, I totally agree. 553 00:32:19,359 - > 00:32:23,839 I mean, I've been on that end of the buying side where it's been 554 00:32:23,839 - > 00:32:27,440 super split, and I repeat myself, you know, multiple times 555 00:32:27,519 - > 00:32:29,839 uh along with you know the post-sale side. 556 00:32:30,000 - > 00:32:32,400 And I will say, at least some of the companies that we worked 557 00:32:32,400 - > 00:32:35,680 with that have been really successful at pre and post-sale, 558 00:32:35,839 - > 00:32:39,119 sometimes they have the same leader managing both departments 559 00:32:39,279 - > 00:32:41,200 because they can see the full vision. 560 00:32:41,359 - > 00:32:44,960 Um, other times when they are split, those two people need to 561 00:32:44,960 - > 00:32:46,880 be, in my opinion, best friends, right? 562 00:32:47,039 - > 00:32:51,200 Like how do we help each other and you know, be successful in 563 00:32:51,200 - > 00:32:52,240 both ends. 564 00:32:52,480 - > 00:32:56,319 And the third thing is I've seen them also implement like a 565 00:32:56,319 - > 00:33:00,720 30-day implementation basically process or onboarding process 566 00:33:00,720 - > 00:33:03,759 for the pre-sales I see, you know, with the customer 567 00:33:03,920 - > 00:33:07,680 onboarding uh person or customer success manager so that that 568 00:33:07,680 - > 00:33:10,240 handout or that handoff is smooth. 569 00:33:10,400 - > 00:33:12,720 Um, and I agree, I don't think that can fly anymore in the 570 00:33:12,720 - > 00:33:15,920 market because it's really easy for me to go and say, okay, 571 00:33:16,160 - > 00:33:19,119 there's 10 other companies that can do probably the same thing. 572 00:33:19,279 - > 00:33:22,640 I want to be taken care of and like the least amount of you 573 00:33:22,640 - > 00:33:24,720 know friction as possible. 574 00:33:25,200 - > 00:33:27,599 SPEAKER_01: Well, think think of one other thing that's been 575 00:33:27,599 - > 00:33:29,119 going on for decades. 576 00:33:29,519 - > 00:33:34,720 I mean, literally decades, is that you know, you'll get a um a 577 00:33:34,720 - > 00:33:42,319 tier one um consulting company that also sells the software. 578 00:33:42,480 - > 00:33:48,319 You know, think of any of our you know tier one players, and 579 00:33:48,640 - > 00:33:54,640 um you'll that's a different way to solve that same problem. 580 00:33:54,799 - > 00:33:59,039 So the selling team, then you know, you still have a lot of 581 00:33:59,039 - > 00:34:02,319 continuity of what that delivery team is. 582 00:34:02,480 - > 00:34:04,960 Yeah, all depends upon how big your company is. 583 00:34:05,119 - > 00:34:07,200 You know, are we talking about it in a startup? 584 00:34:07,359 - > 00:34:11,519 Are we talking about it, you know, someone in um in a space, 585 00:34:11,599 - > 00:34:15,360 it's just a lot of street fighting kind of going on, um, 586 00:34:16,239 - > 00:34:16,880 etc. 587 00:34:17,519 - > 00:34:20,559 Different people do it for different reasons, it has 588 00:34:20,559 - > 00:34:25,039 different labels, and I think we're very sensitive to it now 589 00:34:25,039 - > 00:34:27,039 because the rate of change, yeah. 590 00:34:28,320 - > 00:34:31,039 It just it's faster and faster and faster. 591 00:34:31,280 - > 00:34:37,119 So um, you know, the people don't have the appetite for the 592 00:34:37,440 - > 00:34:43,519 you know three-year, five-year deployment, and we'll protect 593 00:34:43,519 - > 00:34:47,199 the innocent or guilty is to the spaces that would have that. 594 00:34:47,519 - > 00:34:51,519 Um people need value quickly. 595 00:34:52,079 - > 00:34:54,000 There's got to be better ways to do it. 596 00:34:54,480 - > 00:34:57,199 SPEAKER_00: Couldn't agree more, and I think this is a perfect 597 00:34:57,199 - > 00:35:00,400 time to kind of segue into our rapid fire questions. 598 00:35:00,960 - > 00:35:05,360 Um, what is one tool that you can live without right now, or 599 00:35:05,360 - > 00:35:07,760 maybe since you're also investing in companies, have 600 00:35:07,760 - > 00:35:09,280 seen them not live without? 601 00:35:10,159 - > 00:35:13,760 SPEAKER_01: So there should be no surprise in my answer. 602 00:35:14,159 - > 00:35:19,519 It's absolutely generative AI tools that accelerate um 603 00:35:19,840 - > 00:35:25,440 research, you know, analysis, uh create content, productivity. 604 00:35:25,679 - > 00:35:28,559 Now, it's not a silver bullet. 605 00:35:29,039 - > 00:35:33,360 You know, people that and you hear all kinds of stories around 606 00:35:33,360 - > 00:35:37,360 people that are, you know, have thought, write it and send it. 607 00:35:37,440 - > 00:35:40,400 You know, have have them do all of these things. 608 00:35:40,800 - > 00:35:41,840 It doesn't work. 609 00:35:42,880 - > 00:35:48,960 The silver bullet for me is writing very powerful, reusable 610 00:35:48,960 - > 00:35:58,639 prompts that the the tool gets better and better and better. 611 00:35:59,199 - > 00:36:02,400 So for example, you know, you you look in the you know in the 612 00:36:02,400 - > 00:36:06,079 business world from a sales world standpoint, it can evolve 613 00:36:06,079 - > 00:36:10,480 for a bit, but a single prompt that if you've got a quarterly 614 00:36:10,480 - > 00:36:14,719 business review, you know, on a prospect that you're working 615 00:36:14,719 - > 00:36:20,079 with, you know, it should be cut and paste, take the prompt, drop 616 00:36:20,079 - > 00:36:24,559 it, yeah, go go get that cup of coffee because you know you're 617 00:36:24,559 - > 00:36:28,320 gonna you're gonna have a board level PowerPoint deck or 618 00:36:28,320 - > 00:36:30,159 whatever it is that's provided back to you. 619 00:36:30,400 - > 00:36:36,239 Now you've got to go back and you've got to verify and you've 620 00:36:36,239 - > 00:36:40,480 got to do all of your homework, okay, or it's a huge crash and 621 00:36:40,480 - > 00:36:40,800 burn. 622 00:36:41,199 - > 00:36:43,760 Because the last piece, why is that important to me? 623 00:36:44,000 - > 00:36:47,360 Share a little bit of something about me, which actually I think 624 00:36:47,440 - > 00:36:50,559 is a differentiator versus a weakness. 625 00:36:50,800 - > 00:36:53,199 I'm a card-carrying dyslexic. 626 00:36:53,519 - > 00:36:57,039 So, you know, I transpose right and left and all of these 627 00:36:57,039 - > 00:36:57,760 different things. 628 00:36:57,920 - > 00:37:05,440 So these tools make me super, super productive from a 629 00:37:05,440 - > 00:37:06,320 comparative level. 630 00:37:06,480 - > 00:37:09,199 But I know how to use them and how not to use them. 631 00:37:09,519 - > 00:37:10,239 SPEAKER_00: Absolutely. 632 00:37:10,400 - > 00:37:11,920 I don't know if you saw in the news. 633 00:37:12,000 - > 00:37:15,679 This was uh maybe five or six months ago at this point, but I 634 00:37:15,679 - > 00:37:20,639 believe it was uh Deloitte that they had written a sort. 635 00:37:21,039 - > 00:37:24,559 I need to remember the entire story, but they had written a 636 00:37:24,559 - > 00:37:28,000 sort of research for the Australian government and they 637 00:37:28,000 - > 00:37:31,199 paid them, I don't know, four or five hundred thousand dollars 638 00:37:31,199 - > 00:37:32,320 for that research. 639 00:37:32,559 - > 00:37:36,960 And then the government uh requested a refund back because 640 00:37:36,960 - > 00:37:40,960 it was just an AI written document with full of errors, 641 00:37:41,119 - > 00:37:45,039 and it seemed like nobody had like reviewed it on top of that 642 00:37:45,119 - > 00:37:46,320 or whatever that was like. 643 00:37:46,559 - > 00:37:48,559 So um that wasn't the news a while ago. 644 00:37:48,639 - > 00:37:49,840 I don't know if you saw that story. 645 00:37:49,920 - > 00:37:53,280 I might have gotten some of the details wrong, but yeah, it was 646 00:37:53,519 - > 00:37:55,199 it was interesting to see. 647 00:37:55,679 - > 00:38:00,559 SPEAKER_01: No, so I didn't see that specific one, but those 648 00:38:00,559 - > 00:38:02,960 things are out there all the time. 649 00:38:03,119 - > 00:38:06,320 It you know, it could be the you know, it could be a half million 650 00:38:06,480 - > 00:38:11,440 dollar you know study that was done, or it could be uh you 651 00:38:11,440 - > 00:38:16,960 know, a sales rep that you know improperly used something, you 652 00:38:16,960 - > 00:38:20,800 know, write a thank you letter or a follow-up or whatever it 653 00:38:20,800 - > 00:38:22,079 may happen to be. 654 00:38:22,400 - > 00:38:26,719 Um so yeah, it's just a tool. 655 00:38:26,880 - > 00:38:29,039 That's all it is, is a tool. 656 00:38:29,360 - > 00:38:30,159 SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely. 657 00:38:32,400 - > 00:38:35,840 Uh what would you say is the biggest growth level lever right 658 00:38:35,840 - > 00:38:38,159 now for SaaS companies in 2026? 659 00:38:39,360 - > 00:38:46,320 SPEAKER_01: Um I would say it's customer value realization, but 660 00:38:47,280 - > 00:38:50,880 with the driver, I mean that's kind of a framework that 661 00:38:50,880 - > 00:38:53,280 supports customer adoption. 662 00:38:53,760 - > 00:38:58,079 Um if you you know Gartner talked about this all the time, 663 00:38:58,239 - > 00:39:00,559 Constellation, everyone talks about it. 664 00:39:00,880 - > 00:39:08,000 The percentage of capability and functionality that is sitting on 665 00:39:08,000 - > 00:39:08,800 the shelf. 666 00:39:09,519 - > 00:39:14,480 And you know, you've got companies that are on technology 667 00:39:14,480 - > 00:39:17,599 overload, they're like, why should we be looking at this? 668 00:39:17,679 - > 00:39:22,079 Because we've got five things that you know we didn't deploy 669 00:39:22,239 - > 00:39:25,920 or partially deployed, or whatever it may happen to be. 670 00:39:26,239 - > 00:39:32,400 And the reason that I think that that's the biggest growth lever, 671 00:39:33,519 - > 00:39:37,679 whether it's your install base or whether it's a net new 672 00:39:37,679 - > 00:39:44,400 opportunity, really focusing on driving customer adoption of a 673 00:39:44,400 - > 00:39:48,639 solution ensures that they're going to get more value. 674 00:39:49,519 - > 00:39:53,679 Companies that are getting more value out of your solution are 675 00:39:54,480 - > 00:39:58,480 they're that reference cell, they're going to invest more. 676 00:39:58,639 - > 00:40:03,599 So this kind of goes back to some of the things that haven't 677 00:40:03,599 - > 00:40:05,119 changed at all. 678 00:40:05,280 - > 00:40:05,599 SPEAKER_02: Yeah. 679 00:40:05,760 - > 00:40:08,239 SPEAKER_01: But when the velocity picks up, you know, 680 00:40:08,320 - > 00:40:12,960 we're we're not talking about a four-year ERP deployment that 681 00:40:13,440 - > 00:40:18,480 you know Jeff and Mike and Susan that were in charge of the 682 00:40:18,480 - > 00:40:23,679 selection, you know, a year into it, they're retired, they're 683 00:40:23,679 - > 00:40:26,000 down to the next road, and someone else is holding the 684 00:40:29,440 - > 00:40:33,920 velocity and delivery of values, it's table stakes now. 685 00:40:34,239 - > 00:40:35,039 SPEAKER_00: For sure. 686 00:40:35,280 - > 00:40:36,239 Totally agree. 687 00:40:36,400 - > 00:40:40,239 What is one belief that you have that most people would disagree 688 00:40:40,239 - > 00:40:40,559 with? 689 00:40:41,280 - > 00:40:41,920 SPEAKER_01: Hmm. 690 00:40:42,480 - > 00:40:44,159 It's an interesting one. 691 00:40:44,320 - > 00:40:49,679 Um, so I'll I'll kind of frame this up after I make the 692 00:40:49,679 - > 00:40:50,239 statement. 693 00:40:50,559 - > 00:40:54,800 The best product doesn't always win. 694 00:40:55,280 - > 00:41:01,360 Um, I don't know if most people would disagree with that. 695 00:41:01,679 - > 00:41:06,159 Um, I know that there are a lot of people that disagree with it 696 00:41:06,159 - > 00:41:09,679 because their perspective is that it is the product, it is 697 00:41:09,679 - > 00:41:12,320 the technology, it is the feature function. 698 00:41:12,639 - > 00:41:20,880 Um my belief is that execution is equally important, if not 699 00:41:20,880 - > 00:41:21,119 more. 700 00:41:21,360 - > 00:41:25,519 That's one of the reasons why you see the small, nimble 701 00:41:25,840 - > 00:41:30,960 company that's just entered the market, they've got you know 702 00:41:30,960 - > 00:41:34,079 less than 50% of the functionality and capability, 703 00:41:34,239 - > 00:41:36,559 and they take down the large behemoth. 704 00:41:36,960 - > 00:41:41,039 You know, and and you can have an SVP of sales that's like you 705 00:41:41,039 - > 00:41:43,599 know, we we can insert company name. 706 00:41:43,760 - > 00:41:48,559 Yeah, you know, how did we lose to such and such? 707 00:41:49,280 - > 00:41:53,039 At the end of the day, you were out executed. 708 00:41:54,719 - > 00:41:59,760 You're a big company, you paint sales execution with a really 709 00:42:00,000 - > 00:42:02,480 big paintbrush. 710 00:42:04,320 - > 00:42:10,079 The smaller guy, they're nimble, their founder gets on the phone, 711 00:42:10,480 - > 00:42:13,360 the CTO is highly accessible. 712 00:42:13,760 - > 00:42:17,280 Um, it is about execution. 713 00:42:17,360 - > 00:42:18,400 That's what I believe. 714 00:42:18,880 - > 00:42:24,079 That that's when I work with founders and talking about 715 00:42:24,079 - > 00:42:28,079 competition in the marketplace, that's what I focus on. 716 00:42:28,400 - > 00:42:29,599 SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I love that. 717 00:42:29,679 - > 00:42:32,719 I'm I and I'm actually one of the people that agrees with you. 718 00:42:32,800 - > 00:42:36,960 Um, and I would like to add on top of execution, I would like 719 00:42:36,960 - > 00:42:39,039 to add branding and marketing. 720 00:42:39,280 - > 00:42:43,280 Sometimes you're just visible enough, and you know, compared 721 00:42:43,280 - > 00:42:47,280 to even whatever company, you're just there at the right time at 722 00:42:47,280 - > 00:42:47,679 the right moment. 723 00:42:47,760 - > 00:42:49,679 Sometimes it's a little bit of luck, too. 724 00:42:49,840 - > 00:42:53,840 Um, but on top of execution, I would also add marketing and 725 00:42:53,840 - > 00:42:54,400 branding. 726 00:42:54,559 - > 00:42:56,719 SPEAKER_01: Um you're absolutely right. 727 00:42:56,880 - > 00:43:00,880 And the reason for that is that we're not used to the sales 728 00:43:00,880 - > 00:43:04,400 cycle starting when they pick up the phone and call it. 729 00:43:04,880 - > 00:43:05,039 SPEAKER_00: Right. 730 00:43:06,800 - > 00:43:10,960 SPEAKER_01: They've shortlisted one one way or the other. 731 00:43:11,119 - > 00:43:16,400 So your brand, your market had better be all out there, or 732 00:43:17,840 - > 00:43:21,440 you're you're gonna be listed as, and oh, by the way, we 733 00:43:21,440 - > 00:43:24,719 evaluated this company, this company, and this company. 734 00:43:25,519 - > 00:43:27,280 But they never pick up the phone. 735 00:43:27,599 - > 00:43:28,719 SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely. 736 00:43:28,960 - > 00:43:32,400 Actually, very interesting fact, but I'm still surprised at how 737 00:43:32,400 - > 00:43:35,920 many companies don't pick up their phone if a customer's 738 00:43:35,920 - > 00:43:36,480 calling. 739 00:43:36,719 - > 00:43:38,159 That still surprises me. 740 00:43:38,320 - > 00:43:40,639 And you know what, you've already lost me because I'm 741 00:43:40,639 - > 00:43:43,199 gonna call the next guy, and if they answer, then I'll start 742 00:43:43,199 - > 00:43:43,920 that conversation. 743 00:43:44,079 - > 00:43:47,760 So a whole different topic we can get into, but I wanted to 744 00:43:47,760 - > 00:43:48,880 mention it since you said that. 745 00:43:50,960 - > 00:43:55,039 Okay, do you have a kind of like your biggest hiring mistake 746 00:43:55,039 - > 00:43:56,559 story and what did it teach you? 747 00:43:58,000 - > 00:44:00,800 SPEAKER_01: Um Yes. 748 00:44:01,440 - > 00:44:06,159 And that's when at one point in time, kind of early on in my 749 00:44:06,159 - > 00:44:12,800 career, um, I had this perspective of it was all about 750 00:44:13,760 - > 00:44:15,920 functional knowledge and skill. 751 00:44:16,639 - > 00:44:22,079 And you know, you would go looking for the absolute best 752 00:44:22,079 - > 00:44:28,320 athlete that can do A and B because that's what the market 753 00:44:28,559 - > 00:44:31,519 says is the most important thing. 754 00:44:31,760 - > 00:44:34,639 And I remember being in conversations about headcount 755 00:44:34,639 - > 00:44:39,039 and stuff, and it's like, I need one of these, and I need exactly 756 00:44:39,039 - > 00:44:39,920 one of these. 757 00:44:40,559 - > 00:44:46,400 Reality, you make that higher, and um you end up with one trick 758 00:44:46,400 - > 00:44:47,039 pony. 759 00:44:47,360 - > 00:44:50,719 And or you can, yeah, or you can. 760 00:44:51,280 - > 00:44:55,679 So here's what I look for, kind of from an overall standpoint. 761 00:44:55,920 - > 00:44:59,920 The most in some of the most important things to me are 762 00:45:00,239 - > 00:45:07,440 someone's adaptability, their executive presence, their 763 00:45:07,599 - > 00:45:13,760 ability to communicate, their ability to show empathy. 764 00:45:14,079 - > 00:45:19,199 Um, and then finally, teamwork. 765 00:45:19,519 - > 00:45:22,639 The most important thing, really, fundamentally, when it 766 00:45:22,639 - > 00:45:26,639 all comes down to it, you know, you want skills and you know all 767 00:45:26,639 - > 00:45:28,239 things being equal. 768 00:45:28,960 - > 00:45:32,000 I want to make sure that the people that I'm hiring, if they 769 00:45:32,000 - > 00:45:35,440 aren't wanting to hire them, work to get them to understand 770 00:45:35,440 - > 00:45:36,880 the value of teamwork. 771 00:45:37,119 - > 00:45:42,079 Because you need your entire team to be executing at an art 772 00:45:42,079 - > 00:45:44,239 level to be able to scale. 773 00:45:44,480 - > 00:45:49,280 You know, the the days of having that, and and even to to this 774 00:45:49,280 - > 00:45:51,119 day you hear people talking about it. 775 00:45:51,360 - > 00:45:56,639 Oh my gosh, um Linda does such an amazing job. 776 00:45:56,719 - > 00:46:00,320 You know, she can pull you know this rabbit out of the hat to 777 00:46:00,320 - > 00:46:04,800 save a demo, and we had system problems, and I can always rely 778 00:46:04,800 - > 00:46:05,599 on Linda. 779 00:46:06,079 - > 00:46:13,119 Well, if next year you know I need to be you know doubling the 780 00:46:13,119 - > 00:46:18,719 transactions and opportunities that I have, when Linda's not 781 00:46:18,719 - > 00:46:19,360 going to solve that. 782 00:46:19,519 - > 00:46:26,239 Now, if Linda's a really team-focused person, and she's 783 00:46:26,239 - > 00:46:32,480 always looking to raise everyone, that's gold. 784 00:46:33,280 - > 00:46:37,119 Yeah, what you want to hire with those things. 785 00:46:37,360 - > 00:46:40,480 You know, learning a skill, learning a new programming 786 00:46:40,480 - > 00:46:43,840 language, you know, is absolutely trainable. 787 00:46:44,000 - > 00:46:47,920 I mean, yes, you want people that have a particular industry 788 00:46:47,920 - > 00:46:54,239 background or executive presence, adaptability, 789 00:46:55,599 - > 00:46:56,320 teamwork. 790 00:46:56,400 - > 00:46:57,199 That's gold for me. 791 00:46:57,519 - > 00:46:58,079 SPEAKER_00: Love that. 792 00:46:58,320 - > 00:47:02,159 Do you have an example of maybe how you test that throughout the 793 00:47:02,159 - > 00:47:05,360 interview process in terms of the teamwork or executive 794 00:47:05,360 - > 00:47:08,719 presence that it's kind of taught you, you know, throughout 795 00:47:08,719 - > 00:47:11,840 the years of like, this is a couple of things I can ask to 796 00:47:11,840 - > 00:47:13,199 really weed that out? 797 00:47:14,400 - > 00:47:15,280 SPEAKER_01: Great question. 798 00:47:15,519 - > 00:47:17,360 And um, I do. 799 00:47:17,519 - > 00:47:23,840 I have a very focused um hiring and interview process, and that 800 00:47:23,840 - > 00:47:31,039 goes along with having um peers participate in the interview 801 00:47:31,039 - > 00:47:37,039 process, um, which which is normal, but what I think is um 802 00:47:37,280 - > 00:47:40,800 somewhat special as to what we do is is that not only is it a 803 00:47:40,800 - > 00:47:44,880 matter of, hey, we expect you to do a presentation, we want to 804 00:47:44,880 - > 00:47:48,960 see how you prep for that presentation. 805 00:47:49,119 - > 00:47:51,440 You know, we make sure that people understand you know, 806 00:47:51,519 - > 00:47:55,360 during the interview and hiring process, it's always been, you 807 00:47:55,360 - > 00:48:00,159 know, so you know, maybe you know, you meant you met another 808 00:48:00,159 - > 00:48:03,599 um manager or two, you met a couple peers. 809 00:48:03,840 - > 00:48:06,639 Did you reach back out to them to get some coaching? 810 00:48:07,519 - > 00:48:10,000 Did you ask them to do a dry run? 811 00:48:10,239 - > 00:48:17,599 I mean, we we lay these things out, but that tied to then how 812 00:48:17,599 - > 00:48:20,800 someone executes really shows it. 813 00:48:20,960 - > 00:48:27,280 So we give them an opportunity to demonstrate some of those 814 00:48:27,280 - > 00:48:29,519 behaviors that we just talked about. 815 00:48:29,920 - > 00:48:30,639 SPEAKER_00: I love that. 816 00:48:30,800 - > 00:48:33,440 I actually had a different leader in the podcast a couple 817 00:48:33,519 - > 00:48:38,239 weeks back, and she said that she willingly offers you know 818 00:48:38,400 - > 00:48:43,199 people a dry run in the interview process, and 95% of 819 00:48:43,199 - > 00:48:44,480 them don't take it. 820 00:48:44,800 - > 00:48:47,039 And I was pretty baffled by that number. 821 00:48:47,199 - > 00:48:51,199 Um, but I'm not surprised because I obviously I am in the 822 00:48:51,199 - > 00:48:56,559 hiring cycle a lot as my day-to-day job, but it's it's 823 00:48:56,559 - > 00:49:00,719 still surprising to me that you know the stakes right now for 824 00:49:00,719 - > 00:49:03,280 getting a job are higher than ever. 825 00:49:03,840 - > 00:49:07,679 And there's so much more competition than there's ever 826 00:49:07,679 - > 00:49:08,000 been. 827 00:49:08,480 - > 00:49:13,039 And everybody's like, oh, but how do I, you know, be this like 828 00:49:13,199 - > 00:49:15,760 unicorn person that shows up in front of a company? 829 00:49:15,920 - > 00:49:18,239 If they just hired me, I would show myself. 830 00:49:18,400 - > 00:49:21,360 And the thing is, like, I tell everybody, it's not about being 831 00:49:21,360 - > 00:49:24,559 really a unicorn, it's about doing the small, little, 832 00:49:24,719 - > 00:49:26,239 consistent things to stand out. 833 00:49:26,320 - > 00:49:30,000 And that starts with pre-interview, sending them an 834 00:49:30,000 - > 00:49:33,199 excited to meet note, post-interview, sending them a 835 00:49:33,199 - > 00:49:34,000 thank you note. 836 00:49:34,239 - > 00:49:37,920 It's it's still crazy to me that people think that's so basic, 837 00:49:38,000 - > 00:49:40,239 but like they still don't do it. 838 00:49:40,400 - > 00:49:43,039 Um, and then when you add that up throughout the entire 839 00:49:43,039 - > 00:49:46,719 interview process, you think, wow, RV's like been on top of it 840 00:49:46,719 - > 00:49:47,760 since day one. 841 00:49:47,920 - > 00:49:49,440 You know, it's not just like about once. 842 00:49:49,519 - > 00:49:50,960 And then same thing with the try-runs. 843 00:49:51,199 - > 00:49:53,360 You know, if if I'm being offered that, I will absolutely 844 00:49:53,360 - > 00:49:53,679 take it. 845 00:49:53,760 - > 00:49:56,800 It gives me a chance to get to know the team a little bit 846 00:49:56,800 - > 00:49:57,039 better. 847 00:49:57,119 - > 00:50:00,719 I could scoop out some more info if I needed to, maybe get to 848 00:50:00,719 - > 00:50:03,840 know the hiring manager a little bit more in depth as well. 849 00:50:04,000 - > 00:50:05,199 Like so many things. 850 00:50:05,360 - > 00:50:10,400 And um, yeah, it's kind of sad in my eyes when I see people 851 00:50:10,400 - > 00:50:12,719 that don't take that because it's a huge opportunity for you 852 00:50:12,719 - > 00:50:15,360 to stand out without doing anything too crazy, not to 853 00:50:15,360 - > 00:50:16,800 mention your sharp your skill set. 854 00:50:17,760 - > 00:50:20,639 SPEAKER_01: Here's the last kind of little tidbit for people that 855 00:50:20,639 - > 00:50:26,400 are that are listening um either live or or to the replay, and 856 00:50:26,400 - > 00:50:28,639 it's the importance of the dry run. 857 00:50:29,840 - > 00:50:32,239 It's not about how you deliver that presentation. 858 00:50:32,400 - > 00:50:36,239 I mean, it it is, but here's the important piece. 859 00:50:37,280 - > 00:50:42,159 What did you do with the coaching that you were provided? 860 00:50:43,760 - > 00:50:46,480 Did you take it to heart? 861 00:50:47,280 - > 00:50:51,360 And then did you adjust and adapt? 862 00:50:51,679 - > 00:50:56,159 Because it shows all of those things that you know we've been 863 00:50:56,159 - > 00:50:56,960 talking about. 864 00:50:57,599 - > 00:50:59,199 Can you learn new things? 865 00:50:59,440 - > 00:51:01,599 Yeah, can you adapt with it? 866 00:51:01,840 - > 00:51:07,760 And the team members know to put a little bit of a zinger or put 867 00:51:07,760 - > 00:51:10,480 a little a little bit of teeth in that. 868 00:51:10,800 - > 00:51:14,400 Um, to see if did they listen. 869 00:51:14,800 - > 00:51:16,000 SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so true. 870 00:51:16,159 - > 00:51:18,400 Yeah, that should tell you absolutely coachability. 871 00:51:18,559 - > 00:51:21,519 If I'm giving you coaching points and you don't implement 872 00:51:21,519 - > 00:51:24,000 those, that tells me that that person's not going to be 873 00:51:24,000 - > 00:51:24,800 coachable. 874 00:51:25,199 - > 00:51:27,119 Um, so couldn't agree more. 875 00:51:27,360 - > 00:51:28,559 Mark, thank you so much. 876 00:51:28,719 - > 00:51:30,239 This has been awesome. 877 00:51:30,480 - > 00:51:33,039 Thank you for sharing all this value, just being super 878 00:51:33,039 - > 00:51:35,440 transparent, obviously for joining me. 879 00:51:35,599 - > 00:51:39,199 And there are so much notes to take from this episode, whether 880 00:51:39,199 - > 00:51:41,920 you listen live or you're listening to the podcast 881 00:51:41,920 - > 00:51:42,559 afterwards. 882 00:51:42,719 - > 00:51:45,920 I hope you had your AI note taker on or you just took notes 883 00:51:45,920 - > 00:51:49,039 as your as we were talking or watched a replay. 884 00:51:49,199 - > 00:51:52,400 Um, by the way, Mark, what's the best way for people to connect 885 00:51:52,400 - > 00:51:52,800 with you? 886 00:51:53,039 - > 00:51:56,159 Um, that you'd prefer them to reach out if they wanted to. 887 00:51:56,719 - > 00:51:57,920 SPEAKER_01: Thanks for asking. 888 00:51:58,159 - > 00:52:02,079 Um, like the rest of the world, I'm out there on LinkedIn. 889 00:52:02,480 - > 00:52:06,800 There actually is more than one Mark Nix in the software 890 00:52:06,800 - > 00:52:08,719 industry, and I have met him. 891 00:52:09,119 - > 00:52:13,440 Um make sure it's this. 892 00:52:15,760 - > 00:52:18,800 SPEAKER_00: I will put it in the show notes as well so that 893 00:52:18,800 - > 00:52:21,840 people can can have it easier to access as well. 894 00:52:22,000 - > 00:52:24,239 Uh, but thank you again, everybody, for joining. 895 00:52:24,320 - > 00:52:28,000 Thank you again, Mark, for for coming on and just spending some 896 00:52:28,000 - > 00:52:30,320 time with me and just dropping a lot of value. 897 00:52:30,559 - > 00:52:32,880 I will see you all on the next one.