Hiring Great Talent: Erich Wolters on Mindset, Clock Speed, and Closing the Deal When It Counts

1 00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:19,359 SPEAKER_01: Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of 2 00:00:19,359 --> 00:00:23,760 Pillar Talk where we build the foundations of sales leadership 3 00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:27,839 success and attempt to create clarity in terms of what good 4 00:00:27,839 --> 00:00:31,199 looks like for current and aspiring leaders. 5 00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:33,520 Just a quick review of the pillars. 6 00:00:33,679 --> 00:00:36,240 We talk about talent identification and attraction. 7 00:00:36,399 --> 00:00:37,359 Both are difficult. 8 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:40,799 We talk about the operating rhythm with which the leader 9 00:00:40,799 --> 00:00:44,880 runs the team, which is measured in my mind by motivation, 10 00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:47,280 engagement, and accountability. 11 00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:50,159 We talk about business planning, which is planning for the future 12 00:00:50,159 --> 00:00:52,159 rather than reacting to the things that are happening to 13 00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:52,320 you. 14 00:00:52,399 --> 00:00:55,280 It's actually pretty difficult to do the former and easy to do 15 00:00:55,280 --> 00:00:55,920 the latter. 16 00:00:56,159 --> 00:00:59,119 Mastering the craft, which is coaching the team and helping 17 00:00:59,119 --> 00:00:59,840 them win. 18 00:01:00,079 --> 00:01:02,399 Communication and ownership. 19 00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:06,000 Today we are fortunate to have Eric Walters as our guest. 20 00:01:06,159 --> 00:01:09,439 Eric is the VP of Enterprise Sales at Lupio. 21 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:12,879 He leads the strategy, he's doing hiring, he's doing tons of 22 00:01:12,879 --> 00:01:16,400 coaching, he's executing at a very high level on large 23 00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:18,799 enterprise deals across the entire company. 24 00:01:18,959 --> 00:01:22,000 Prior to that, Eric was the VP of sales at Wise Systems. 25 00:01:22,159 --> 00:01:25,359 He led go-to-market efforts and enterprise sales there. 26 00:01:25,599 --> 00:01:28,319 And in addition to his impressive sales leadership 27 00:01:28,319 --> 00:01:30,719 background, Eric is an entrepreneur. 28 00:01:30,799 --> 00:01:35,519 And outside of just doing the SaaS leadership thing, he runs 29 00:01:35,519 --> 00:01:40,400 and founded Timely Souls, a curated luxury watch and also 30 00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:43,200 sneaker venture that he launched in 2023. 31 00:01:43,439 --> 00:01:45,599 Eric, thank you for joining Pillar Talk. 32 00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:48,239 SPEAKER_02: Hey, thanks so much for the invite, Rick, and great 33 00:01:48,239 --> 00:01:49,120 to see you again. 34 00:01:49,439 --> 00:01:53,120 SPEAKER_01: Eric, what did sales leadership and just the world 35 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:56,879 we're living in today teach you that helped you build the 36 00:01:56,879 --> 00:01:59,840 confidence to actually go launch your own entrepreneurial 37 00:01:59,840 --> 00:02:00,560 endeavor? 38 00:02:00,879 --> 00:02:01,200 SPEAKER_02: Yeah. 39 00:02:01,519 --> 00:02:06,719 So I, you know, my career in sales started really, I think, 40 00:02:06,959 --> 00:02:08,800 when I was a kid. 41 00:02:09,439 --> 00:02:14,560 I always had like a passion for uh convincing my parents to let 42 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:15,360 me do something. 43 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:19,680 I was that kid that was not like getting kicked out of school, 44 00:02:19,759 --> 00:02:21,360 but getting in trouble at school. 45 00:02:21,439 --> 00:02:24,879 And so I had to work my way through different privileges 46 00:02:24,879 --> 00:02:27,840 with my parents and convince them that they should trust me 47 00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:30,800 to do something when maybe my actions hadn't said otherwise at 48 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:31,280 school. 49 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:35,360 So that ability to influence was something that I had to really 50 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:38,400 learn quickly as a kid if I wanted to actually do anything. 51 00:02:38,639 --> 00:02:42,319 And um, and as I grew up, um, I started collecting cards and 52 00:02:42,319 --> 00:02:44,000 like kind of alternative investment stuff. 53 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:46,400 So sports memorabilia, baseball cards. 54 00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:50,879 That eventually evolved into uh sneakers, which evolved into 55 00:02:50,879 --> 00:02:51,599 watches as well. 56 00:02:51,759 --> 00:02:54,080 I'm now into like kind of cars now as well. 57 00:02:54,319 --> 00:02:57,759 So big into alternative assets primarily because I always got 58 00:02:57,759 --> 00:03:02,719 super bored by watching uh investments grow on a computer 59 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:04,719 uh spreadsheet or whatever, right? 60 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:08,960 Just like there's nothing that appealed to me about investing 61 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:11,759 in a company and watching the stock grow. 62 00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:15,120 I would prefer to actually experience the assets that can 63 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:16,879 also appreciate and value. 64 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:19,919 And so um I think sneakers are horrible investments. 65 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:24,319 I don't recommend anybody try to invest in sneakers, but you can 66 00:03:24,319 --> 00:03:27,280 actually invest in luxury watches and do pretty well. 67 00:03:27,439 --> 00:03:30,000 And you can wear them on your wrists, they're great networking 68 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:33,599 tools, uh, and they're also a hedge against inflation, and 69 00:03:33,599 --> 00:03:36,240 they do uh trend with the price of gold. 70 00:03:36,319 --> 00:03:39,599 So, you know, a lot of very important current uh themes in 71 00:03:39,599 --> 00:03:40,560 today's world. 72 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:41,439 SPEAKER_01: Awesome. 73 00:03:41,599 --> 00:03:44,240 Uh Eric, we had uh, you know, I had the good fortune of been 74 00:03:44,319 --> 00:03:45,360 able to work with you in the past. 75 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:48,960 I observed as a sales leader uh some of the attributes that made 76 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:53,759 you effective is just sort of one discipline always observed 77 00:03:53,919 --> 00:03:57,360 you being consistent and you know your work ethic and 78 00:03:57,360 --> 00:04:01,199 consistency of just being on top of things and creating the right 79 00:04:01,199 --> 00:04:02,000 environment. 80 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:06,400 Um and then recently I saw that you posted on LinkedIn about 81 00:04:06,639 --> 00:04:07,360 hiring. 82 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:10,240 And so you are in a time right now where you're trying to bring 83 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:11,360 new people into the organization. 84 00:04:11,439 --> 00:04:14,240 We know how leveraged of a bet that is. 85 00:04:14,479 --> 00:04:18,000 And you posted about here are the 11 questions that I ask in 86 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:18,879 every interview. 87 00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:22,160 What was the background on how that came together? 88 00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:23,680 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely. 89 00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:28,319 So uh I've actually been in the fortunate position um at Lupio 90 00:04:28,319 --> 00:04:30,959 this year where I actually have been actively hiring. 91 00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:33,040 There's not a lot of organizations out there that are 92 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:34,560 hiring as much as we are right now. 93 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:37,120 So it's a really fortunate position. 94 00:04:37,279 --> 00:04:41,839 And as as I've been involved in hiring so consistently this 95 00:04:41,839 --> 00:04:45,360 year, it compelled me to kind of put this post out on LinkedIn 96 00:04:45,519 --> 00:04:48,879 and share some of uh what I think is working uh in the 97 00:04:48,879 --> 00:04:49,199 process. 98 00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:54,560 But where this all came from was um really kind of back to my 99 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:55,600 days at Gartner. 100 00:04:55,839 --> 00:05:00,720 So uh Gartner um research advisory company, it was my 101 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:05,519 first uh role in management, in leadership, and they had some 102 00:05:05,519 --> 00:05:07,199 outstanding training there. 103 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:10,720 And I also had some outstanding mentors in that business as well 104 00:05:10,879 --> 00:05:17,199 that really has influenced how I hire, retain, coach, develop 105 00:05:17,199 --> 00:05:19,040 talent since then. 106 00:05:19,279 --> 00:05:21,759 And one of the most inspirational leaders that I 107 00:05:21,759 --> 00:05:25,920 worked with, um, a guy named Peter Prasico, he was the uh 108 00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:28,399 managing vice president for the Northeast. 109 00:05:28,639 --> 00:05:33,199 And um, I remember uh Pete recruiting me to be a manager. 110 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:37,360 Um I initially declined because I was so excited about the 111 00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:40,319 upcoming year as an individual contributor and what I could 112 00:05:40,319 --> 00:05:43,360 contribute there, the money I could make there, uh, but he 113 00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:45,759 eventually convinced me to become a manager. 114 00:05:45,839 --> 00:05:48,399 Uh so I want to give Pete that shout out. 115 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:50,240 Um, you know, look at me now. 116 00:05:50,879 --> 00:05:55,040 Uh but one of the things that Pete always uh always talked to 117 00:05:55,040 --> 00:05:58,399 me about, like first and foremost, it's always about 118 00:05:58,399 --> 00:06:00,160 hiring great talent. 119 00:06:00,399 --> 00:06:02,079 Always about hiring great talent. 120 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:05,279 And and I actually worked for another manager uh before I 121 00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:09,120 became uh a leader at Gartner, his name was Scott Rose. 122 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:16,000 And um he I thought was the best manager I've ever seen at being 123 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:19,839 able to hire and assemble just a record-breaking team. 124 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:25,519 And I and I remember talking to my wife uh and just observing 125 00:06:25,519 --> 00:06:27,519 like Scott's work habits. 126 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:33,920 And Scott wasn't afraid to take a vacation, he wasn't afraid to 127 00:06:33,920 --> 00:06:36,800 take a little bit of time off because he trusted his team. 128 00:06:36,879 --> 00:06:39,360 And I remember my wife always pointing that out to me. 129 00:06:39,439 --> 00:06:42,480 She's like, Eric, you can take a week off of work and not feel 130 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:44,639 about it, not feel bad about it, right? 131 00:06:44,879 --> 00:06:46,240 Look at what Scott does. 132 00:06:46,399 --> 00:06:49,680 And and so I didn't quite connect the dots on that because 133 00:06:49,680 --> 00:06:50,800 I was such a young manager. 134 00:06:50,879 --> 00:06:54,720 I felt like I had to be in the business every day, like getting 135 00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:59,759 my hands dirty, being the super manager to prove that I belonged 136 00:06:59,759 --> 00:07:02,720 in the management position to the people that I hired. 137 00:07:02,879 --> 00:07:06,879 Um, and as I've matured as a manager, um, that that has 138 00:07:06,879 --> 00:07:12,720 changed and it's also influenced the way that I hire so that I 139 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:16,720 actually create my own teams now that are modeled after that 140 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:22,000 incredible team that Scott Rose built and uh inspired by just 141 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:24,399 the importance of hiring great talent that I learned from Pete 142 00:07:24,399 --> 00:07:28,959 Prisco uh back, you know, 10 or 12 years ago, uh, maybe a little 143 00:07:28,959 --> 00:07:29,279 bit more. 144 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:31,759 SPEAKER_01: So what were some of the things you observed that 145 00:07:31,759 --> 00:07:33,199 Pete and Scott you know did? 146 00:07:33,279 --> 00:07:34,720 What are some of the early takeaways? 147 00:07:34,879 --> 00:07:36,720 Because it's hard to just copy-paste. 148 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:38,800 Like you'd learn some things, and then of course you're gonna 149 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:41,680 have to stumble a bit along your way and learn some of the 150 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:42,959 lessons through experience. 151 00:07:43,279 --> 00:07:44,000 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely. 152 00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:48,480 I think the the most important lesson that I learned from them 153 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:54,399 was that getting to the numbers is first and foremost about 154 00:07:54,399 --> 00:07:56,720 getting the right people on your team. 155 00:07:57,040 --> 00:07:59,680 And I remember Pete uh pulling me into an office. 156 00:07:59,839 --> 00:08:02,240 He says, Eric, what's the most important thing that you do as a 157 00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:02,639 manager? 158 00:08:02,879 --> 00:08:05,839 My response was, Pete, get to my quota, of course. 159 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:09,279 And he's like, Yeah, you're right, but that's actually not 160 00:08:09,279 --> 00:08:11,040 the most important thing that you do. 161 00:08:11,199 --> 00:08:13,920 The most important thing you do is you hire great talent. 162 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:16,319 And he would always sit down with me and be like, Eric, rank 163 00:08:16,319 --> 00:08:17,360 me, rank your team to me. 164 00:08:17,439 --> 00:08:18,399 Who's who's first? 165 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:19,759 Who's number one in your team? 166 00:08:19,839 --> 00:08:21,040 Who's last on your team? 167 00:08:21,199 --> 00:08:24,079 And whoever's last on your team, are you performance managing 168 00:08:24,079 --> 00:08:24,240 them? 169 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:26,480 Are you looking for the next number one guy? 170 00:08:26,639 --> 00:08:26,959 Right? 171 00:08:27,199 --> 00:08:32,320 So the conversations with him were not always about this deal, 172 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:34,480 the forecast, the quarter. 173 00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:36,960 It was, Eric, tell me about your team. 174 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:38,799 What do you like about them? 175 00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:40,879 How are you coaching them today? 176 00:08:41,039 --> 00:08:42,879 How do you stack rank them? 177 00:08:43,039 --> 00:08:44,399 And how can I help you? 178 00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:45,039 Right. 179 00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:50,399 Um, that was really uh inspiring to me and kind of set me on the 180 00:08:50,399 --> 00:08:53,840 trajectory of I was still a very young manager, so I didn't quite 181 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:54,320 understand it. 182 00:08:54,399 --> 00:08:58,240 But as I've matured, it's become something that I constantly 183 00:08:58,240 --> 00:09:02,799 think back to and tap into in my own hiring practices and as I 184 00:09:02,799 --> 00:09:04,159 shape my team here at Lupio. 185 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:08,000 SPEAKER_01: All right, so how do we connect the idea that like as 186 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:12,240 a manager, it is about the team, the team that you assemble, the 187 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:14,399 team that you manage along the way. 188 00:09:14,639 --> 00:09:18,000 What about those lessons around how to actually build that team? 189 00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:21,200 Is the go out and find the talent proactively? 190 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:22,799 Is it assessment around it? 191 00:09:22,960 --> 00:09:24,639 Obviously, it's probably a bit of both. 192 00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:27,840 SPEAKER_02: Like yeah, it's certainly a bit of both. 193 00:09:27,919 --> 00:09:31,120 I mean, you you've got to have the experience uh to get the 194 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:35,600 interview, but but to actually get the job, um, you've got to 195 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:41,440 demonstrate uh the right traits and behaviors that um I know 196 00:09:41,759 --> 00:09:44,879 when you come into an environment uh and you are 197 00:09:44,879 --> 00:09:50,240 coachable, uh, that I can enable you to thrive and to be 198 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:51,039 successful. 199 00:09:51,279 --> 00:09:54,399 So, you know, first and foremost, it really comes down 200 00:09:54,399 --> 00:09:57,919 to mindset, growth mindset is the most important thing. 201 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:01,039 And actually, this is a question that I ask every candidate that 202 00:10:01,039 --> 00:10:01,840 I meet with. 203 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:04,240 I ask them, I say, what's more important? 204 00:10:04,639 --> 00:10:06,559 Mindset or process? 205 00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:12,480 Um I I won't automatically disqualify a candidate if they 206 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:17,360 say process, um, but it's gonna be an uphill battle for them to 207 00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:20,240 win my favor if they think process is more important, 208 00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:24,240 because I'm I so passionately believe that success, not only 209 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:27,200 in sales, but generally in life, is about your mindset. 210 00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:30,799 And that 90% of every outcome that you're working towards, 211 00:10:30,879 --> 00:10:32,799 it's it's your attitude towards it. 212 00:10:33,039 --> 00:10:37,600 And if you've got that mindset that uh allows you to be 213 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:42,960 coachable and to um reflect on like your experiences and know 214 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:45,840 that you can shape those and that you can control what you 215 00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:46,320 can control. 216 00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:49,600 You've got the right attitude, the confidence, the conviction, 217 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:53,279 the courage, the grit, the resilience, like all those 218 00:10:53,279 --> 00:10:56,000 ingredients that go into a winning mindset. 219 00:10:56,159 --> 00:10:58,159 Um, you can be successful anywhere. 220 00:10:58,320 --> 00:10:59,679 You just need to be in the right environment. 221 00:10:59,759 --> 00:11:02,720 You need to have the right leader to like unleash that 222 00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:04,159 talent to be successful. 223 00:11:04,399 --> 00:11:08,960 So I'm always pleased when candidates immediately answer 224 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:12,000 mindset, and I will tell them that I think that's the right 225 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:12,399 answer. 226 00:11:12,559 --> 00:11:15,200 And they kind of give me their explanation for why. 227 00:11:15,679 --> 00:11:18,720 SPEAKER_01: And hopefully there's a story around that as 228 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:23,360 well, like an example of how that mindset has been a part of 229 00:11:23,440 --> 00:11:27,200 whether it be adversity or difficult deals in the past, if 230 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:29,600 we're talking about a sales capacity or that type of thing. 231 00:11:29,759 --> 00:11:30,080 SPEAKER_02: Yeah. 232 00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:32,399 Yeah, there's a there's always a story that goes with it. 233 00:11:32,559 --> 00:11:37,440 It's typically some type of loss uh that they learned from. 234 00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:42,639 Uh, because I think in sales, uh, we lose a lot more uh than 235 00:11:42,639 --> 00:11:43,279 we win. 236 00:11:43,519 --> 00:11:47,440 And our success over the long run is our response to that 237 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:48,080 loss. 238 00:11:48,399 --> 00:11:51,600 Um uh my manager Scott Rose actually told me something that 239 00:11:51,600 --> 00:11:53,039 I still tell my team today. 240 00:11:53,279 --> 00:11:56,080 Spend five minutes in victory and spend five minutes in 241 00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:56,399 defeat. 242 00:11:56,559 --> 00:11:59,759 SPEAKER_01: It's difficult to spend five minutes in defeat and 243 00:11:59,759 --> 00:12:02,480 five minutes in victory, but that's five minutes in victory 244 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:05,440 is easy, five days in defeat is easy as well. 245 00:12:05,759 --> 00:12:08,080 SPEAKER_02: I know, I know, but but you gotta but you gotta 246 00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:10,960 learn from from those experiences and and those 247 00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:13,840 losses, and that that is something that uh that I 248 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:14,559 definitely expect. 249 00:12:14,639 --> 00:12:16,960 And and something else that's really important here is that 250 00:12:17,039 --> 00:12:18,879 like if you think about it this way, right? 251 00:12:19,039 --> 00:12:22,960 So like um most organizations have a sales process, and if 252 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:24,960 they don't, I'm sure they're working on building one. 253 00:12:25,120 --> 00:12:28,240 And so like you have 10 reps that are all following the same 254 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:31,360 sales process, then why are the levels of performance different, 255 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:31,679 right? 256 00:12:31,759 --> 00:12:33,919 So like they all know the process. 257 00:12:34,159 --> 00:12:37,679 Why is one guy or gal overachieving while one guy or 258 00:12:37,679 --> 00:12:39,679 gal is is underachieving? 259 00:12:39,919 --> 00:12:42,799 I I'm extremely confident it's just their mindset. 260 00:12:42,879 --> 00:12:45,840 And you know, are they adaptable to certain situations? 261 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:48,159 Are are they reflective in the losses? 262 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:50,799 How quickly do they rebound from the losses? 263 00:12:51,039 --> 00:12:54,480 How can they bring conviction and enthusiasm to every 264 00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:57,600 conversation, no matter how they're feeling that day? 265 00:12:57,759 --> 00:13:00,799 Um, you know, how how much energy they bringing on Monday 266 00:13:00,799 --> 00:13:04,559 mornings, like those are the difference makers to me that 267 00:13:04,799 --> 00:13:07,440 they're gonna set your top performers apart from everybody 268 00:13:07,440 --> 00:13:07,679 else. 269 00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:10,320 And that's what I really try to look for in the interview 270 00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:13,919 process is you know, the folks with those types of traits that 271 00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:17,200 uh knowing that um you know tough times don't last, but 272 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:18,240 tough people do. 273 00:13:18,559 --> 00:13:20,080 SPEAKER_01: And let's dig into those traits a bit. 274 00:13:20,159 --> 00:13:22,159 I mean, you just talked about what I would describe as 275 00:13:22,159 --> 00:13:25,200 resilience, you talked about energy, which is a bit of that 276 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:28,240 charisma, and you know, being a little bit more, I always say be 277 00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:30,799 more memorable, um, which is a way of you know doing that. 278 00:13:31,039 --> 00:13:34,480 What are some of the just if we go down into that mindset that 279 00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:37,279 you're looking for, what are some of the attributes that are 280 00:13:37,519 --> 00:13:38,480 most important to you? 281 00:13:38,879 --> 00:13:42,960 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I I think that uh resilience and perseverance 282 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:45,039 is extremely important. 283 00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:46,799 That's right at the top of my list, right? 284 00:13:46,879 --> 00:13:51,279 So like I will always ask a question centered around like, 285 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:52,960 what are your long-term goals? 286 00:13:53,279 --> 00:13:56,799 And then tell me the last time that you didn't achieve a goal. 287 00:13:56,960 --> 00:13:58,240 What did you do? 288 00:13:59,039 --> 00:14:03,120 And it it's a it's an interesting kind of flip in the 289 00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:06,559 interview process because we spend a few minutes talking 290 00:14:06,559 --> 00:14:09,039 about long-term goals that the candidate has set for 291 00:14:09,039 --> 00:14:12,080 themselves, and we're talking about the positive, the 292 00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:14,159 aspirational, the future. 293 00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:17,279 And then I immediately reverse the psychology on. 294 00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:19,759 I say, well, when's the last time you missed a goal? 295 00:14:19,919 --> 00:14:20,879 What did you do? 296 00:14:21,039 --> 00:14:22,159 How did you adapt? 297 00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:23,440 What did you learn? 298 00:14:23,679 --> 00:14:28,879 And in that is uh, I think one of the most important questions 299 00:14:28,879 --> 00:14:32,720 that I asked in the interview process because it gives me a 300 00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:35,679 sense of like, A, are they actually real about setting 301 00:14:35,679 --> 00:14:36,159 goals? 302 00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:42,720 And B, um, how painful are the experiences that they've had 303 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:44,399 when they've missed something? 304 00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:51,039 And how quickly are they able to account for uh that miss? 305 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:55,679 And how accurately are they able to describe uh what they learn 306 00:14:55,679 --> 00:14:56,399 from that experience? 307 00:14:56,480 --> 00:15:00,320 So like I'm measuring the grit and the resilience in that 308 00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:03,840 question, but I'm also measuring the clock speed of the candidate 309 00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:04,399 as well. 310 00:15:04,559 --> 00:15:08,240 Um, because I think clock speed is extremely important, 311 00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:13,360 especially enterprise sellers working with large multinational 312 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:17,519 organizations, engaging with executives, you better be quick, 313 00:15:17,679 --> 00:15:21,200 you better be um you better be able to ask the right questions, 314 00:15:21,279 --> 00:15:23,919 you better be able to challenge, you better be able to reflect in 315 00:15:23,919 --> 00:15:24,320 the moment. 316 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:27,679 And so that clock speed in these types of questions is also 317 00:15:27,679 --> 00:15:30,080 something that's important for me to measure because every 318 00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:32,320 engagement that I'm having with them in the interview process, 319 00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:36,240 I'm I'm imagining how are they how is this going to translate 320 00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:37,440 into an actual deal. 321 00:15:37,679 --> 00:15:39,919 SPEAKER_01: And by clock speed, you mean like the pace with 322 00:15:39,919 --> 00:15:41,759 which they're reacting and answering your question? 323 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:42,320 SPEAKER_02: Correct. 324 00:15:42,399 --> 00:15:43,200 Yeah, correct. 325 00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:44,720 So think about Jeopardy, right? 326 00:15:44,799 --> 00:15:47,679 Like you got you got what, like three seconds to answer the 327 00:15:47,679 --> 00:15:48,879 question in Jeopardy, right? 328 00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:51,440 So like the the clock speed, precisely. 329 00:15:51,919 --> 00:15:52,320 SPEAKER_01: Got it. 330 00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:54,799 Because you're picturing them in front of an executive that's 331 00:15:54,799 --> 00:15:59,759 impatient and is going to switch off and you know, credibility 332 00:15:59,759 --> 00:16:02,399 out the window if that clock speed doesn't match theirs. 333 00:16:02,639 --> 00:16:03,200 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah. 334 00:16:03,279 --> 00:16:07,600 We we have to be able to make uh strong impressions quickly, and 335 00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:09,120 we've got to be sharp. 336 00:16:09,519 --> 00:16:14,240 SPEAKER_01: Um, do you view long-term goals as prerequisite 337 00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:16,879 for performance in an enterprise sales capacity? 338 00:16:17,039 --> 00:16:20,799 I find that many don't have strong long-term goals. 339 00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:22,399 What are you looking for there? 340 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:23,919 SPEAKER_02: Wow. 341 00:16:24,159 --> 00:16:26,320 So um, yes, I think it's hugely important. 342 00:16:26,399 --> 00:16:29,360 And this actually comes down to something else that I haven't 343 00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:31,600 brought up yet, but but it's a great question. 344 00:16:31,759 --> 00:16:34,240 Um sense of purpose, right? 345 00:16:34,639 --> 00:16:43,279 So resilience in grit isn't a reaction in and of itself, it 346 00:16:43,279 --> 00:16:46,480 has to be founded and grown out of something. 347 00:16:46,639 --> 00:16:49,039 And that something is your purpose, right? 348 00:16:49,279 --> 00:16:56,399 So um my purpose is to make sure that my, you know, what when I 349 00:16:56,399 --> 00:17:02,720 was a kid, my dad always said that he wanted to have X, Y, Z. 350 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:04,720 He couldn't give it to us. 351 00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:08,079 So here I am, I've got this amazing sales career and this 352 00:17:08,079 --> 00:17:09,200 amazing opportunity. 353 00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:12,480 I can actually find an opportunity, give that to my 354 00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:13,039 family. 355 00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:15,039 And that's what I tap into. 356 00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:17,680 And my goal is to be able to get there and achieve that. 357 00:17:17,759 --> 00:17:21,200 And so like I want to understand through the interview process to 358 00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:24,559 tap into the why behind the motivations. 359 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:28,720 Because like what when I like a question that I ask even before 360 00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:31,200 the long-term goal one is like, hey, sales is really tough. 361 00:17:31,279 --> 00:17:33,599 Like, what do you tap into to keep going? 362 00:17:33,759 --> 00:17:34,079 Right? 363 00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:35,599 How do you do that? 364 00:17:35,839 --> 00:17:38,720 And if I get like really surface-level question or 365 00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:42,319 answers to that question, I'll I'll always double-click on it 366 00:17:42,319 --> 00:17:43,759 because I really want to understand what it is. 367 00:17:43,839 --> 00:17:46,720 And then I try to understand, okay, well, this is the purpose 368 00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:47,599 they tap into. 369 00:17:47,839 --> 00:17:50,480 Are they actually able to attach their long-term goals to that 370 00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:51,039 purpose? 371 00:17:51,279 --> 00:17:54,480 And and I have found um, you know, with with the uh you know, 372 00:17:54,559 --> 00:17:57,279 the recent hires that we've made here at Lupio that everybody was 373 00:17:57,279 --> 00:18:01,759 able to answer that question uh very, very directly uh and with 374 00:18:01,759 --> 00:18:04,559 the right amount of detail that I would expect. 375 00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:07,279 SPEAKER_01: So it isn't necessarily the goals in and of 376 00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:11,039 themselves, it's the clarity for you and understanding what's 377 00:18:11,039 --> 00:18:14,400 motivating people, what is their driver, what is their purpose. 378 00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:15,119 Exactly. 379 00:18:15,279 --> 00:18:16,880 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's that's exactly right. 380 00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:21,440 Because back to the original point, I hire on the behaviors 381 00:18:21,599 --> 00:18:27,839 and I hire on how well this candidate's mindset is tuned, 382 00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:32,480 and the the sense of purpose and having a recognition for what 383 00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:37,519 that for what that sense of purpose is uh to get you through 384 00:18:37,519 --> 00:18:41,279 the tough times is really important for me to be able to 385 00:18:41,279 --> 00:18:43,920 identify that they have identified it. 386 00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:47,839 Because when they have that, that's going to be something 387 00:18:47,839 --> 00:18:50,480 that inevitably it's gonna be we're gonna run into some 388 00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:53,359 difficulty when we're working together. 389 00:18:53,759 --> 00:18:57,680 How is that person, or what is that person gonna tap into to 390 00:18:57,680 --> 00:18:58,400 keep going? 391 00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:01,119 SPEAKER_01: I mean, I imagine that the answer is often some 392 00:19:01,119 --> 00:19:04,720 type of like to provide for my family, support my family type 393 00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:05,440 of variant. 394 00:19:05,599 --> 00:19:07,119 Is that typically what you see? 395 00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:10,960 SPEAKER_02: It is, and it and and I don't, I, I, I don't 396 00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:12,000 accept that. 397 00:19:12,319 --> 00:19:16,319 I I I dig further because that is not an acceptable answer. 398 00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:19,759 And I say, and I in the way that I reply to that, I say, look, 399 00:19:20,319 --> 00:19:22,000 um, everybody says that. 400 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:25,200 Everybody obviously wants to provide for their family, um, 401 00:19:25,279 --> 00:19:27,519 everybody wants to go buy a home, right? 402 00:19:27,839 --> 00:19:31,119 But what what what is the what's the why behind that? 403 00:19:31,279 --> 00:19:33,039 Like, why is that so important? 404 00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:37,200 And when you start to dig in and you can do it in a you know very 405 00:19:38,079 --> 00:19:44,319 diplomatic, curiosity-driven type of way, candidates don't 406 00:19:44,319 --> 00:19:47,359 get offended by it, but they appreciate your interest in 407 00:19:47,359 --> 00:19:48,960 learning more about their situation. 408 00:19:49,279 --> 00:19:53,599 And I think that in the interview process, they're 409 00:19:53,599 --> 00:19:56,000 assessing you just as much as you're assessing them. 410 00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:59,680 And in your ability to bring this level of cure, genuine 411 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:03,759 curiosity to the interview is something that they'll reflect 412 00:20:03,759 --> 00:20:04,960 on uh at the end. 413 00:20:05,119 --> 00:20:09,039 And I think these 11 questions that I posted on LinkedIn, this 414 00:20:09,039 --> 00:20:13,519 is actually a way for you as an interviewer to distinguish 415 00:20:13,519 --> 00:20:16,880 yourself from the other companies that are that this 416 00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:18,720 candidate may be may be meeting with. 417 00:20:18,799 --> 00:20:22,240 Because I'll tell you, nearly every time I finish going 418 00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:25,279 through these questions with a candidate interview, they nearly 419 00:20:25,279 --> 00:20:28,480 always say, I've never had anybody ask me those types of 420 00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:30,480 questions in an interview before. 421 00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:34,319 And um and I love and enjoy the conversation. 422 00:20:34,559 --> 00:20:37,200 SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it I mean, a lot of what this is about is 423 00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:38,799 getting past the surface level. 424 00:20:39,039 --> 00:20:43,119 A lot of it is about getting to the real sort of drivers and 425 00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:47,839 motivators and um behaviors of somebody, and you're in a 426 00:20:47,839 --> 00:20:50,240 position to understand what that's gonna be like for them in 427 00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:53,920 a role, and you're trying to sort of get the real of like how 428 00:20:54,079 --> 00:20:57,839 who they are so that you can put them in that context and see is 429 00:20:57,839 --> 00:20:58,960 that gonna be a win for everybody? 430 00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:00,960 Because it's not just about being a win for the company, 431 00:21:01,039 --> 00:21:02,480 it's about being a win for the individual. 432 00:21:02,799 --> 00:21:05,599 Getting a bad hire is not only bad for your company and your 433 00:21:05,599 --> 00:21:06,720 job, it's bad for the person. 434 00:21:06,799 --> 00:21:08,880 Like everybody loses in that type of context. 435 00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:10,400 So the stakes are super high. 436 00:21:10,799 --> 00:21:13,119 Um, you you you when you're looking for, you know, you 437 00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:18,000 talked about the question around um they didn't achieve a goal. 438 00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:22,799 Is the is the the motivation there around authenticity and 439 00:21:22,799 --> 00:21:24,000 just sort of self-awareness? 440 00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:25,839 Like, like what are you looking for there? 441 00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:28,640 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it it is, it is for sure. 442 00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:34,960 You know, I I I want to make sure that the candidate isn't 443 00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:37,440 isn't the type of person that comes off and says, hey, I've 444 00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:38,160 never missed a goal. 445 00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:42,079 It's it's like the candidate that and and I've talked to some 446 00:21:42,079 --> 00:21:44,240 candidates that have actually done this where you ask them, 447 00:21:44,319 --> 00:21:46,559 like, hey, tell me about a deal that you lost and and what did 448 00:21:46,559 --> 00:21:47,119 you learn from it? 449 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:49,359 And and they actually can't even think of one. 450 00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:52,400 And I'm like, What do you mean you can't think of a deal that 451 00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:52,799 you lost? 452 00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:55,759 Like, I I literally still remember my most painful deals 453 00:21:55,759 --> 00:21:56,720 from 15 years ago. 454 00:21:56,960 --> 00:21:58,160 Those are my favorite stories. 455 00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:00,400 Yeah, yeah, totally, right? 456 00:22:00,559 --> 00:22:04,400 So, like, I you you you gotta have an answer to that question 457 00:22:04,559 --> 00:22:08,400 uh so that you're able to um you know show that like you're 458 00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:11,839 reflective and and most importantly, you're somebody 459 00:22:11,839 --> 00:22:13,759 that um learns from mistakes, right? 460 00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:16,880 So I think all of these situations are ones where 461 00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:20,319 there's been um some type of mistake or some type of lesson 462 00:22:20,319 --> 00:22:20,880 learned. 463 00:22:21,039 --> 00:22:24,000 And and those are the most powerful moments in your career, 464 00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:28,559 which come after the losses, and how do you adapt yourself and 465 00:22:28,559 --> 00:22:33,839 your business after the loss to be able to uh adapt and win in 466 00:22:33,839 --> 00:22:34,559 the future? 467 00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:35,119 SPEAKER_01: Yeah. 468 00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:38,720 So it's it's about not only are we going into that resilience 469 00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:41,839 area, but it's about that growth mindset and continuing to learn 470 00:22:41,839 --> 00:22:44,559 from it so we don't repeat the same mistakes again and that 471 00:22:44,559 --> 00:22:45,119 type of thing. 472 00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:47,440 Um, so all right, we've we've we've hit a couple of those 473 00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:50,720 questions, and of course, I'll share um you know the link to 474 00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:52,079 the post so that anybody can see them. 475 00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:54,799 But what are some of the ones that stand out here that are 476 00:22:54,799 --> 00:22:57,680 like the things you get the most excited to drill into the 477 00:22:57,680 --> 00:22:59,200 conversations with candidates? 478 00:22:59,519 --> 00:23:00,799 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, for sure. 479 00:23:01,039 --> 00:23:03,759 So my my favorite question is one. 480 00:23:03,839 --> 00:23:07,920 So I was actually in a I was in like a manager mentoring program 481 00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:13,839 at Gartner, and and I got paired up with um a manager in Sweden, 482 00:23:14,319 --> 00:23:19,839 and uh, and I had like uh bi-weekly just mentor calls with 483 00:23:19,839 --> 00:23:23,440 him, and uh and I was doing a lot of hiring at the time, so I 484 00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:26,160 was like curious, I was like, all right, what do they do in 485 00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:29,519 Sweden to interview sales guys and gals, right? 486 00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:32,319 And I was like, you know, tell me what you do, what are some of 487 00:23:32,319 --> 00:23:33,440 the questions that you ask? 488 00:23:33,599 --> 00:23:38,079 And the the question that he shared with me remains like my 489 00:23:38,079 --> 00:23:40,160 favorite interview question to this day. 490 00:23:40,319 --> 00:23:45,519 And so it it's a scenario where it's going to make any candidate 491 00:23:45,519 --> 00:23:50,960 squirm and uh and think deeply about how they want to answer 492 00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:51,279 this question. 493 00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:53,039 So here's the question, right? 494 00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:59,039 So it's it's the final day of your fiscal year, and you have a 495 00:23:59,039 --> 00:24:03,200 deal that's gonna get you to P Club, and it's gonna get your 496 00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:04,400 company to plan. 497 00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:04,960 Okay. 498 00:24:05,599 --> 00:24:07,680 So it's the only deal left. 499 00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:11,279 And you're on the phone with your prospect, and they tell 500 00:24:11,279 --> 00:24:15,440 you, hey, I can get this deal done now, but the pressure that 501 00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:18,000 you're placing on us, it's actually gonna put the 502 00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:20,640 relationship on the rocks from the start. 503 00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:24,480 So my question to the candidate is like, do you press for the 504 00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:28,240 deal or do you let it move into the new fiscal year to save the 505 00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:28,880 relationship? 506 00:24:29,039 --> 00:24:29,839 And I pause. 507 00:24:30,079 --> 00:24:30,400 SPEAKER_01: Hold on. 508 00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:33,519 Yeah, all right, good, good, because I'm I'm gonna attempt to 509 00:24:33,519 --> 00:24:34,000 answer this. 510 00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:34,799 Okay, great. 511 00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:37,039 Yeah, playful about it. 512 00:24:37,279 --> 00:24:39,440 But I'm gonna be candid here for a minute. 513 00:24:39,599 --> 00:24:41,839 I'm getting that damn deal, Eric. 514 00:24:42,079 --> 00:24:43,519 That's the right answer. 515 00:24:45,519 --> 00:24:46,799 That's the right answer. 516 00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:50,960 And Rick, you you would be I mean, it's an uncomfortable, 517 00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:54,319 like, I feel almost bad in the way that you framed it, but it's 518 00:24:54,319 --> 00:24:57,039 like, well, listen, it's putting it a little bit on the rocks, 519 00:24:57,119 --> 00:24:58,960 but like, we're gonna get this done. 520 00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:02,160 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, look, 100% that's the right answer. 521 00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:07,200 And I'll tell you, the the best salespeople I've hired, 522 00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:09,680 immediately like, I get the deal. 523 00:25:10,079 --> 00:25:15,200 But I I find the vast majority of candidates are not that 524 00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:17,200 decisive in the answer to that question. 525 00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:21,119 And and so they're like, well, the the the answer that I get 526 00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:22,720 most of the time is it depends. 527 00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:27,440 It really just depends, and you know, the the relationship is 528 00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:30,559 important, and you never want to start off on the wrong foot. 529 00:25:30,799 --> 00:25:33,839 And I tell them, and I let them kind of think it out and play it 530 00:25:33,839 --> 00:25:36,640 out, and then I and then I ultimately will kind of share 531 00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:37,839 like my perspective on it. 532 00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:41,359 But yeah, it's like, look, you you you are you're in sales, 533 00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:46,240 you're paid to get the deal, you're paid to close business. 534 00:25:46,559 --> 00:25:52,400 So get the deal, and you have at least a year to fix the 535 00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:55,279 relationship, probably two or three years to fix the 536 00:25:55,279 --> 00:25:56,559 relationship, right? 537 00:25:57,599 --> 00:26:00,160 So that that's the correct answer. 538 00:26:00,319 --> 00:26:06,079 And um, I would say probably 30% of candidates that I talk to 539 00:26:06,079 --> 00:26:07,920 will say, yes, I get the deal. 540 00:26:08,079 --> 00:26:15,039 Uh, probably 60% are like it depends, and they waffle and 541 00:26:15,039 --> 00:26:18,240 they don't give me a straight answer, and then the remaining 542 00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:23,839 percent are um, no offense, um, service-based sellers that 543 00:26:23,839 --> 00:26:25,440 should probably go into CS. 544 00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:27,759 SPEAKER_01: Um, well, I'm thankful. 545 00:26:27,839 --> 00:26:29,119 I'm feeling good no matter what. 546 00:26:29,759 --> 00:26:30,000 Oh, yeah. 547 00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:35,519 That like I've, you know, that is a well-framed, and you make 548 00:26:35,519 --> 00:26:40,559 it comfortable for the responder to that question to not say get 549 00:26:40,559 --> 00:26:41,279 the deal. 550 00:26:41,519 --> 00:26:45,119 And so you're looking for someone that's like, yeah, yeah, 551 00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:46,640 I get that there's all this stuff going on. 552 00:26:46,799 --> 00:26:49,599 We got a deal to go get, like, and the the sort of tunnel 553 00:26:49,599 --> 00:26:54,079 vision and the urgency that's required in order to like it's 554 00:26:54,319 --> 00:26:57,279 sales, is especially enterprise sales, is pushing the boulder 555 00:26:57,279 --> 00:26:58,960 uphill every single day. 556 00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:02,160 And I always joked around that enterprise sales, you only close 557 00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:04,319 the deal when all the joy is gone. 558 00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:08,880 Only when all the joy is possibly gone, is it now set up 559 00:27:09,039 --> 00:27:10,079 for the deal to win? 560 00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:12,799 And so if you don't have the mindset of like go get the deal, 561 00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:15,119 nothing in here was ethically challenging. 562 00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:17,039 It's just like, hey, it's just gonna be tough. 563 00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:21,200 Like, yeah, um, that is a great, great question. 564 00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:24,720 So um, which leads to another one, which is like, how much do 565 00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:25,359 you know about me? 566 00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:27,519 Which is about preparation and doing your research. 567 00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:29,839 SPEAKER_02: And now anybody that's gonna interview with in 568 00:27:29,839 --> 00:27:32,319 the future, they you've given the answers to the test here, 569 00:27:33,279 --> 00:27:40,400 well, what's funny is um I post so I posted this uh uh post on 570 00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:45,759 LinkedIn, and right as I was in the midst of interviewing a lot 571 00:27:45,759 --> 00:27:54,160 of candidates, and there were I think two that actually read the 572 00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:58,079 post and kind of knew where I was gonna be going with my 573 00:27:58,079 --> 00:28:01,119 questions, but nobody else has, right? 574 00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:05,279 So it's actually it actually is a little bit surprising because 575 00:28:05,519 --> 00:28:08,319 one of the first questions that I ask everybody is like, how 576 00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:09,680 much do you know about me? 577 00:28:09,839 --> 00:28:10,400 Right? 578 00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:15,839 And and I asked that because like how could you show up to an 579 00:28:15,839 --> 00:28:19,039 interview without knowing your interviewer and at least 580 00:28:19,039 --> 00:28:22,720 spending a little bit of time to get to know them beyond the you 581 00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:24,559 know rapport building stuff? 582 00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:27,759 Because you know what, if that's their approach to an interview 583 00:28:27,759 --> 00:28:30,240 with me, what are they gonna do when they're preparing for that 584 00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:31,119 C-level meeting? 585 00:28:31,279 --> 00:28:32,480 It's gonna be the same approach. 586 00:28:32,559 --> 00:28:36,000 And it's like, dude, you're it's probably not gonna work out here 587 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:38,880 if you're not actually even doing your research on me. 588 00:28:39,279 --> 00:28:40,079 SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah. 589 00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:42,400 Well, all right, we're not gonna hit every single one of them. 590 00:28:42,559 --> 00:28:45,680 I think that was a fantastic sort of overview of some key 591 00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:47,279 ones and what you're thinking about. 592 00:28:47,359 --> 00:28:50,400 I'm gonna sort of incorporate some of these into my uh 593 00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:51,119 interviewing. 594 00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:53,839 I wanted to ask you a little bit just about hiring. 595 00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:58,559 How much time are you spending going outbound and attempting to 596 00:28:58,559 --> 00:29:02,000 get candidates that fit a profile that you're interested 597 00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:06,559 in versus you know, receiving the inbound flow of candidates? 598 00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:09,839 And how do you find balance between your pursuit of because 599 00:29:09,839 --> 00:29:12,720 you can, you know, like you can go and find people that have 600 00:29:12,799 --> 00:29:15,359 maybe it's industry experience, maybe it's like sales 601 00:29:15,359 --> 00:29:18,640 background, but you also can get you pull up host a job these 602 00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:20,079 days and you're going to get a lot of applications. 603 00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:22,079 What's your balance between the two? 604 00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:23,119 SPEAKER_02: Yeah. 605 00:29:23,359 --> 00:29:26,799 Yeah, look, I mean, in today's market, there's no shortage of 606 00:29:27,039 --> 00:29:30,160 candidates and um and resumes that you're gonna see. 607 00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:34,799 So I I I'm fortunate enough where I've been working with my 608 00:29:34,799 --> 00:29:38,079 people partner um for for so long. 609 00:29:38,799 --> 00:29:43,759 She's extremely skilled in filtering through the candidates 610 00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:49,680 and actually putting in front of me um candidates that she thinks 611 00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:52,160 are going to be close enough to the bullseye. 612 00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:55,920 And and we've actually, I think the best thing that a people 613 00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:58,960 manager can do is that, right, in terms of a recruiting 614 00:29:58,960 --> 00:29:59,279 partner. 615 00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:02,960 Not wasting people's time with candidates that just aren't 616 00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:03,440 going to hit. 617 00:30:03,519 --> 00:30:06,960 So it's really been a lot of inbound lead flow, but I will 618 00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:10,559 say that it's it's extremely important to always be 619 00:30:10,559 --> 00:30:14,160 developing your network proactively, even when you're 620 00:30:14,319 --> 00:30:16,480 even when you don't have a job opening. 621 00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:20,160 And that's actually one thing where there's been a really um 622 00:30:20,319 --> 00:30:23,759 healthy crossover between my watch posts that I put on 623 00:30:23,759 --> 00:30:26,559 LinkedIn and my SAS sales position. 624 00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:32,960 I get so many inbound DMs from really successful salespeople 625 00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:35,680 that are like, hey, Eric, I'm thinking about buying my next 626 00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:35,920 watch. 627 00:30:36,079 --> 00:30:38,240 I saw that you might know something about watches. 628 00:30:38,319 --> 00:30:42,559 Like, would you mind connecting and we can talk about watches 629 00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:43,920 and we can talk about sales? 630 00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:47,759 And the guys that are planning on buying luxury watches with 631 00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:50,480 their sales commissions, they're actually doing something right. 632 00:30:50,559 --> 00:30:52,400 They're actually closing business and hitting their 633 00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:54,480 quotas, and they want to recognize and celebrate that. 634 00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:57,200 So, like, I actually have found this really unique and 635 00:30:57,200 --> 00:31:00,400 interesting way to develop a pipeline of really successful 636 00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:03,359 software sales guys just by posting about watches. 637 00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:05,519 SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's super interesting. 638 00:31:05,759 --> 00:31:06,160 Yeah. 639 00:31:06,319 --> 00:31:06,640 Yeah. 640 00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:12,400 I I've tried to challenge myself uh recently to do outbound on uh 641 00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:15,920 candidate profiles, even if we're not immediately hiring. 642 00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:18,319 Uh, and I think there's a bit more importance on this in a 643 00:31:18,319 --> 00:31:21,279 vertical SaaS context versus a horizontal one, because you 644 00:31:21,279 --> 00:31:24,799 know, you have a huger pool in which you could be selling your 645 00:31:24,799 --> 00:31:26,559 solutions into many industries. 646 00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:32,000 Um, and so there's a you know a bigger universe of potential of 647 00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:34,799 potential enterprise sales professionals. 648 00:31:35,039 --> 00:31:39,279 And uh, you know, it is true that you in vertical SaaS, you 649 00:31:39,279 --> 00:31:42,799 don't necessarily need to be uh an expert in that vertical to 650 00:31:42,799 --> 00:31:44,640 succeed in role, but it certainly helps. 651 00:31:44,799 --> 00:31:47,519 And you need a balance between getting folks from inside 652 00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:51,039 industry and developing the skill set from folks along the 653 00:31:51,039 --> 00:31:51,279 way. 654 00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:54,960 Um but when you are in a you know a specific vertical where 655 00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:57,599 there's a lot more taxonomy, there's a lot more sort of 656 00:31:57,599 --> 00:32:00,880 technical requirements on deals, and the learning curve is just 657 00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:04,960 simply longer from someone outside of that zone, um, it's a 658 00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:06,319 bit easier to go fishing. 659 00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:09,119 And what I mean by that is it's a bit easier to go identify the 660 00:32:09,119 --> 00:32:12,559 folks that are relevant, certainly directly relevant from 661 00:32:12,559 --> 00:32:16,480 a direct competitor standpoint, but also like tangential type of 662 00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:17,039 companies. 663 00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:22,720 And so in this context, I view it as almost malpractice to not 664 00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:26,640 be nurturing some of those and developing some of those 665 00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:27,359 relationships. 666 00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:31,440 And so, you know, whether it's even at an event or a 667 00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:34,400 conference, but also just like LinkedIn being such a great 668 00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:37,680 source, it's like reaching out to a handful of individuals 669 00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:39,519 every week as a discipline. 670 00:32:39,759 --> 00:32:42,559 And not all of them are gonna, you know, connect with you. 671 00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:45,599 But I find that if you know I'm a chief revenue officer or I'm a 672 00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:48,240 you know senior sales leader versus a talent acquisition 673 00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:50,400 person, the response rate will be higher. 674 00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:53,519 And then entering that conversation with like, let me 675 00:32:53,519 --> 00:32:54,720 deliver some value to that person. 676 00:32:54,799 --> 00:32:58,319 And even if now is not the time, like I still remember 677 00:32:58,319 --> 00:33:02,079 conversations I've had in 2024 with individuals that like it 678 00:33:02,079 --> 00:33:05,519 might be 2026 when the stars align, but I've fostered and at 679 00:33:05,519 --> 00:33:07,440 least initiated the relationship. 680 00:33:07,599 --> 00:33:11,119 Um, I remember whether or not in the way they engaged, whether I 681 00:33:11,119 --> 00:33:11,759 wanted to continue. 682 00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:14,160 Now I can incorporate some of your questions into that in the 683 00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:14,400 future. 684 00:33:14,559 --> 00:33:16,559 So I'm just trying to, you know, I've been thinking more about 685 00:33:16,559 --> 00:33:17,279 that balancing. 686 00:33:18,079 --> 00:33:18,640 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah. 687 00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:20,240 It's it's extremely important. 688 00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:24,079 And I think it as you noted, especially in like kind of a 689 00:33:24,079 --> 00:33:29,039 vertical environment where that specialist uh expertise is going 690 00:33:29,039 --> 00:33:31,440 to be somewhat scarce. 691 00:33:31,599 --> 00:33:36,160 Um and uh and I think it makes a lot of sense to be outbounding 692 00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:36,880 uh as a result. 693 00:33:37,359 --> 00:33:37,680 SPEAKER_01: Yeah. 694 00:33:37,839 --> 00:33:40,240 I do the outbound, super simple. 695 00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:41,519 Like, don't overthink it. 696 00:33:41,599 --> 00:33:42,640 It's more about the execution. 697 00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:44,240 You don't need the perfect message. 698 00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:47,920 Um, I put together like a bit of like a candidate pitch deck, 699 00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:49,839 which is like, I want this to be valuable for them. 700 00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:52,079 I want to educate them on like what we have going on, what's 701 00:33:52,079 --> 00:33:52,960 our org chart look like? 702 00:33:53,039 --> 00:33:54,880 What are the big priorities for the year and the big goals? 703 00:33:55,039 --> 00:33:57,279 What are the challenges they would face in a role, and then 704 00:33:57,279 --> 00:33:59,599 turn that into like what are their experiences with those 705 00:33:59,599 --> 00:34:02,319 same things so I can learn about them while educating on what 706 00:34:02,319 --> 00:34:03,279 it's about here? 707 00:34:03,359 --> 00:34:06,400 Uh, even talk a little bit about like personal values and things 708 00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:06,880 like that. 709 00:34:07,039 --> 00:34:09,119 And then I just say, hey, these are the types of things we're 710 00:34:09,119 --> 00:34:09,519 looking for. 711 00:34:09,679 --> 00:34:12,400 Like, do you want to pursue this type of conversation or you just 712 00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:13,039 want to stay in touch? 713 00:34:13,119 --> 00:34:14,960 It's like a very safe type of thing. 714 00:34:15,119 --> 00:34:18,400 But I I do view just like you said, as like, I want to be 715 00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:18,880 memorable. 716 00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:21,840 I want to make sure that they didn't feel like I'm just 717 00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:22,639 transactional. 718 00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:24,800 I'm just like, hey, are you looking for a job now? 719 00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:26,320 Like, oh no, all right, bye. 720 00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:28,880 Like, no, like this is we're playing the long game here. 721 00:34:29,039 --> 00:34:30,960 Um, and I don't find people do enough of that. 722 00:34:31,039 --> 00:34:34,800 I actually try to uh advocate in many other areas that like 723 00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:36,639 they're out there, they're easy to find. 724 00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:41,039 Like, spend it's worth the time to go in and do that small 725 00:34:41,039 --> 00:34:44,559 amount of work, and you will stand out because not many are 726 00:34:44,559 --> 00:34:45,119 doing it. 727 00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:48,320 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it it's it's entirely true, and it's a 728 00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:50,000 principle for life, in fact, right? 729 00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:55,280 So I actually to weave in the watches again, I I wrote a post 730 00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:58,559 this week about how to develop how to get like how do the guys 731 00:34:58,559 --> 00:35:02,000 that walk into the role expertise boutique um how are 732 00:35:02,079 --> 00:35:06,159 the guys that spend nothing and walk away with a blue dial 733 00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:10,400 skydor or a panda daytona, and then the guy that spends$100,000 734 00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:13,119 walks in and doesn't get anything good. 735 00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:17,039 It really comes down to are are you like a good human being and 736 00:35:17,039 --> 00:35:21,519 are you trying to develop a relationship with your AD, your 737 00:35:21,519 --> 00:35:22,880 Rolex A D? 738 00:35:23,119 --> 00:35:26,639 And what can you offer from a networking standpoint for that 739 00:35:26,639 --> 00:35:29,119 individual that's gonna benefit them just as much as they're 740 00:35:29,119 --> 00:35:30,239 trying to benefit you? 741 00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:32,639 What can you educate them on, right? 742 00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:35,840 The guy that goes in is like, hey, can you put me on a list 743 00:35:36,079 --> 00:35:39,360 and can uh and give me a call next time you get one of these 744 00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:43,679 is never gonna get a call and is you know probably not gonna go 745 00:35:43,679 --> 00:35:44,400 on the list. 746 00:35:44,639 --> 00:35:49,360 But I actually I have a friend who's uh who I sourced a watch 747 00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:49,679 from. 748 00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:55,920 Uh, he told me that um he uh he owns a restaurant chain in uh 749 00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:58,639 the northern area just north of Austin. 750 00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:06,480 And every every Friday um he gives complimentary catering to 751 00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:09,360 the Rolex boutique that he gets his watches from. 752 00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:12,800 He's like, hey guys, I got you for lunch every Friday, the 753 00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:14,480 second Friday of every month. 754 00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:15,920 They lunch comes in. 755 00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:18,639 Does that guy get a call every time a Daytona comes in? 756 00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:19,920 SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's fantastic. 757 00:36:20,159 --> 00:36:20,480 Of course. 758 00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:24,559 What's so interesting is like it used to be sales were so 759 00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:25,519 relationship driven. 760 00:36:25,599 --> 00:36:27,519 Remember, like the you know, you're in the challenger sale 761 00:36:27,599 --> 00:36:29,679 was all about like the relationship person is the type 762 00:36:29,679 --> 00:36:31,519 of person that you think is like going to be the successful 763 00:36:31,519 --> 00:36:31,840 seller. 764 00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:34,559 No, it turns out that like the buddy and the friend is not 765 00:36:34,559 --> 00:36:36,079 necessarily like the right profile. 766 00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:38,800 And so no, you need to be like a challenger and you need to like 767 00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:41,119 be disruptive and you need to be like an industry expert and you 768 00:36:41,119 --> 00:36:42,400 need you know process driven. 769 00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:45,440 And it's like, well, no, yes, all of that is true, but like 770 00:36:45,519 --> 00:36:48,159 relationships still do matter, they have not gone away. 771 00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:51,119 SPEAKER_02: Especially in this uh age of AI, right? 772 00:36:51,199 --> 00:36:53,440 I mean, like what do we as humans still possess? 773 00:36:53,599 --> 00:36:56,800 We still possess like the ability to have a relationship 774 00:36:56,880 --> 00:36:59,599 and the ability to have empathy and emotion. 775 00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:02,800 And I mean, what we we still have that. 776 00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:05,599 We're always gonna have that, and that's never gonna go away. 777 00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:06,239 SPEAKER_01: Yeah. 778 00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:09,039 Um, Eric, to close out here, anything interesting, any 779 00:37:09,039 --> 00:37:11,440 innovations that you've like brought to market recently that 780 00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:13,840 you're like, or something you're experimenting with now to try to 781 00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:16,639 either add productivity or to do something new and different, 782 00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:17,599 what do you see in? 783 00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:18,880 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. 784 00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:21,920 And I I actually published something on LinkedIn about this 785 00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:23,440 uh, I think a month or two ago. 786 00:37:23,519 --> 00:37:25,679 But um, you know, just if you think about in your 787 00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:29,199 organization, any meeting that is strictly information based, 788 00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:34,320 um, how can you actually just churn that into an AI summary, 789 00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:34,639 right? 790 00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:38,719 So uh, for example, uh when we bring in new business deals, 791 00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:41,519 there's an information exchange between the account executive 792 00:37:41,519 --> 00:37:42,960 and the account management team. 793 00:37:43,119 --> 00:37:45,440 It's just strictly information exchange. 794 00:37:45,599 --> 00:37:48,559 And and what we know is that the AEs don't like filling out the 795 00:37:48,559 --> 00:37:52,000 forms that they have to, that they have, that the account 796 00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:53,199 management team's looking for. 797 00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:56,159 And the account management team does not like looking up to look 798 00:37:56,239 --> 00:38:00,400 or uh showing up to a first call unprepared and not knowing the 799 00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:02,000 context behind the sale, right? 800 00:38:02,159 --> 00:38:06,000 So what we've actually started to do here at Lubio is we have 801 00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:09,679 integrations with Gong uh through Salesforce, and then we 802 00:38:09,679 --> 00:38:13,280 are uh bringing all of so we're bringing all of the previous 803 00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:17,519 call notes uh from Gong and using Gong AI to import that 804 00:38:17,519 --> 00:38:18,639 into a Word doc. 805 00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:23,440 And then we're bouncing Gemini uh off of off of the uh 806 00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:27,599 summaries against a template that is the most common 807 00:38:27,599 --> 00:38:30,159 questions that the account management team wants to know 808 00:38:30,159 --> 00:38:31,599 about that new customer. 809 00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:36,559 And we've fully automated that process with AI using Gong AI 810 00:38:36,559 --> 00:38:37,280 and Gemini. 811 00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:41,199 So to now we don't actually need to have these information 812 00:38:41,199 --> 00:38:44,559 transfer meetings again between account executives and between 813 00:38:44,559 --> 00:38:45,519 account managers. 814 00:38:45,679 --> 00:38:47,199 It's now fully automated. 815 00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:51,119 And it's I think a great use of AI where it's like, hey, do we 816 00:38:51,119 --> 00:38:53,519 really need this meeting on the calendar where it's just an 817 00:38:53,519 --> 00:38:55,920 information exchange and we can just fill out a template and 818 00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:58,400 give you what you want, and then everybody's happy and we save 819 00:38:58,400 --> 00:38:58,639 some time. 820 00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:01,280 SPEAKER_01: We're talking about the handoff from a new deal from 821 00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:03,519 the sales team to the implementation team. 822 00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:04,320 Yeah, exactly. 823 00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:04,559 Yeah. 824 00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:07,440 Common set of questions, these are the things we need to know. 825 00:39:07,679 --> 00:39:11,199 Now AI goes in, reviews every sort of interaction historically 826 00:39:11,199 --> 00:39:12,559 around it, answers it. 827 00:39:12,719 --> 00:39:15,519 There can still be some connection if maybe you know the 828 00:39:15,519 --> 00:39:18,159 small percentages that weren't covered need to be still 829 00:39:18,159 --> 00:39:21,920 covered, but we can get to either 100% or mostly down the 830 00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:22,960 road without. 831 00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:24,800 Yeah, yeah, exactly. 832 00:39:25,039 --> 00:39:27,280 Anything else that you're excited about that haven't tried 833 00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:27,840 yet? 834 00:39:28,559 --> 00:39:31,199 SPEAKER_02: Uh I mean, I I've been hearing a lot of things 835 00:39:31,199 --> 00:39:32,800 about tools like clay. 836 00:39:33,119 --> 00:39:38,159 Um, you know, we we just bought a um uh an AI coaching tool that 837 00:39:38,159 --> 00:39:42,000 I'm I'm really excited to to be jumping into so that we can 838 00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:46,559 scale coaching uh using uh using AI across the business. 839 00:39:46,719 --> 00:39:48,960 So that those are all things I'm really excited to start 840 00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:50,719 experimenting with and learning more about. 841 00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:53,119 SPEAKER_01: Well, the time flies, Eric, it's always great 842 00:39:53,119 --> 00:39:53,519 to see you. 843 00:39:53,679 --> 00:39:56,000 Thank you for spending some time with us today. 844 00:39:56,159 --> 00:39:57,519 Um and we will see you next time. 845 00:39:58,000 --> 00:39:58,239 Awesome. 846 00:39:58,320 --> 00:39:58,800 Thanks, Rick. 847 00:39:58,880 --> 00:39:59,360 Appreciate it. 848 00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:08,719 Reflecting on the conversation we had with Eric Walters, I 849 00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:11,599 think the first thing that stood out for me was when we started 850 00:40:11,599 --> 00:40:14,000 talking about the assessment of candidates. 851 00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:18,639 Eric leaned into the idea of attitude and mindset over 852 00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:19,519 process. 853 00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:23,760 And the point he made to emphasize this was that many 854 00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:27,920 established organizations have a process that folks adhere to and 855 00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:30,079 yet do not get uniform results. 856 00:40:30,159 --> 00:40:32,000 They get high variability in results. 857 00:40:32,079 --> 00:40:35,519 And Eric attributed that to mindset and attitude. 858 00:40:35,599 --> 00:40:36,800 And so he tests for that. 859 00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:38,719 And it's a great reminder for us. 860 00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:42,800 Eric talked about these 11 questions uh that he focuses on 861 00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:46,159 in an interview process for enterprise sales talent, 862 00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:48,559 something that he's developed over many years. 863 00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:52,320 And we went into some examples of that uh that have some 864 00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:56,719 thoughtfulness behind them as it relates to getting the right 865 00:40:56,719 --> 00:41:00,239 team built, which is obviously critical for the success of the 866 00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:00,800 business. 867 00:41:01,039 --> 00:41:03,760 Um, there was lots of interesting ones that I don't 868 00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:06,960 normally hear about, clock speed being a great example of that. 869 00:41:07,199 --> 00:41:10,480 He's thinking about not just the content of the answers coming 870 00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:14,159 in, but the credibility of the individual in keeping up with 871 00:41:14,159 --> 00:41:16,960 the pace of an executive that they might have to be selling to 872 00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:17,440 in the future. 873 00:41:17,519 --> 00:41:19,920 So clock speed, a really interesting and different one 874 00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:20,880 that stood out for me. 875 00:41:21,119 --> 00:41:24,159 I like how he pursued authenticity, uh talking about 876 00:41:24,159 --> 00:41:25,199 deals that are lost. 877 00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:27,760 That's something people aren't generally comfortable doing. 878 00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:31,519 Um, I love that deal uh where, you know, the sales leader in 879 00:41:31,519 --> 00:41:35,440 Sweden had uh set up that question, and it was really 880 00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:38,639 about delivering on killer instinct and getting folks that 881 00:41:38,639 --> 00:41:42,960 are going to drive urgency and drive deals to close and not be 882 00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:45,679 in a position where things are going to happen to them, but 883 00:41:45,679 --> 00:41:47,920 they are the ones that are going to make things happen. 884 00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:49,280 Uh, really enjoyed that. 885 00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:52,480 And it really does amaze me in our conversation about the lack 886 00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:54,719 of preparation that happens in the interview world. 887 00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:59,199 And of course, that relays perfectly and correlates to uh 888 00:41:59,199 --> 00:42:02,880 preparation and lack thereof in the sales world. 889 00:42:03,039 --> 00:42:06,639 And so when you find the folks that come prepared, like that is 890 00:42:06,639 --> 00:42:10,320 a you know significant, valuable attribute to come across. 891 00:42:10,559 --> 00:42:11,920 Eric has many more. 892 00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:16,719 Um, I'll be sharing the post uh you know in my Substack 893 00:42:17,199 --> 00:42:19,519 following the release of this episode. 894 00:42:19,679 --> 00:42:22,960 Um, and lastly, I just enjoyed our conversation around how 895 00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:24,320 relationships still matter. 896 00:42:24,559 --> 00:42:28,079 You know, if I think about the evolution of SaaS sales and 897 00:42:28,079 --> 00:42:31,360 technology sales, it used to be highly relationship-driven more 898 00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:34,400 than 20 years ago, heavy reliance on the seller to be 899 00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:34,880 educated. 900 00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:37,519 Now there's so much information out there, we need to be more 901 00:42:37,519 --> 00:42:40,400 prescriptive and identify problems that are worth solving 902 00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:42,559 and become a bit more process-oriented. 903 00:42:42,639 --> 00:42:45,840 And there's Challenger sale and many other ways to be 904 00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:47,760 consultative and value-based sellers. 905 00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:51,519 Like, I totally get it, but relationships still matter. 906 00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:57,039 Um, and so when we talked about this dynamic of um, you know, 907 00:42:57,360 --> 00:42:59,119 how to be more memorable. 908 00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:01,440 And, you know, he gave the example of like who gets the 909 00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:03,199 best watches from the Rolex dealer. 910 00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:06,480 It just reminded me that perhaps we've over-indexed on process 911 00:43:06,559 --> 00:43:09,920 and that, you know, people being their individual cells still has 912 00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:10,480 high relevance. 913 00:43:10,559 --> 00:43:12,719 And that's good because, you know, I'd like to think I'm a 914 00:43:12,719 --> 00:43:14,320 bigger personality type guy. 915 00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:15,920 Uh, thank you to Eric for joining. 916 00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:17,039 Thank you all to listening. 917 00:43:17,119 --> 00:43:19,760 Thanks to Ari Smolin for producing, Sons of Summer for 918 00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:20,320 the tunes. 919 00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:21,360 It was a lot of fun. 920 00:43:21,599 --> 00:43:23,760 We will see you next time on Illinois.