The Mind’s Kudzu: Uprooting Automatic Thoughts for Mental Freedom

Speaker A: I'm Michelle.

Speaker B: And I'm Kathryn.

Speaker A: And we're here at the Healthy, Hurried Human podcast, where we talk about keeping

Speaker B: pace in a world that never slows down.

Speaker A: Hi. Hi. Welcome back to the foxygen podcast.

Speaker B: Yeah, Healthy, Hurried Human. You know, last week, I really appreciated our conversation about the two different states of being. Being in a captive state versus being in a freedom state. That has been one of the things this past year that has been so helpful for me as I have practiced that and going to a place of neutral, listing the facts, taking them away from emotions and thoughts, and then figuring out how to move forward, giving myself the choice of how I want to move forward. One of the things we talked about last week that is going to lead into today's discussion was about the fact that our brain is kind of hardwired, um, to keep us safe and comfortable.

Speaker A: That's right.

Speaker B: And both are important. Both are not inherently wrong. But sometimes the comfortable one is not always the best choice for ourself. And sometimes we have to negotiate with ourselves and talk ourselves out of being comfortable to do what's best, better, the better choice for us. And today we're going to discuss that with, um, how to train our mental focus, how to focus our mind towards the goals that we want.

Speaker A: Yep. That's. That's. It's so important that we understand that our brain is this trainable asset that we have control over versus our brain having control over us. I'm going to use an analogy that you just love being from Georgia. Every Georgian. Georgian knows about kudzu. And I use this analogy because we sit in traffic a lot, and there's a lot of kudzu on the walls next to the interstates. And it came to me because I was looking at it, and there's times where you're like, it's kind of pretty, that kudzu. But if you don't understand, if you're not from Georgia, you don't understand that kudzu is this invasive. Uh, Japanese is where it originated from. You can't destroy it. You can't burn it. It comes back. I mean, you can burn it, but it comes back. You can't uproot it. Like, once it's there, it's so invasive and it's so strong and it can take over. Um, so it was used to help with erosion way back when, whenever they brought it over from Japan. It had its purposes. But the point with kudzu is I like to think of our brain sort of like kudzu in that it's it's invasive. Our brain is there, it is going to operate no matter what. And we can either use it so that it's doing something purposeful and it's doing something that is producing good and moving us forward, or it can be, our brain can be invasive and it can stop us and it can become, it can overgrow and it be, it can, um, because you know, I've seen in, you've seen this if you drive around in the country, entire buildings that used to be there are still there, but they're covered in kudzu. Like it can cover an entire building. And that's if we aren't in control and training our brain, it, our brain takes over and that's where we start to have the habits, the bad habits, um, that we have. Because like you said, you, you said the comfort part, comfort and safety. When we allow that to be the thing that rules us, it can produce um, behaviors that then become habits that we have a really hard time breaking. But we can, we can break them because the brain can always be trained. But we have to be able to identify what's happening in our brain. Is it working for us? Is it working against us because it thinks it's there to keep us safe and keep us comfortable.

Speaker B: I have heard a, um, lot of discussions about having growth, um, mindset. They talk about this in our workplaces and we talk about this in um, institutional learning is having a growth mindset, which means that you are always trying to learn new things and want to learn new things. Briefly touched on concrete mentality versus abstract, abstract, um, thinking in our last podcast and having a growth mindset is very positive. What you're talking about, I feel like, takes it to a different level. You're talking about the root system in our brain where thoughts kind of emerge and then travel a particular pattern.

Speaker A: That's right. So this is where we're going to talk about um, our RAS system. RAS reticular activating system. This is I always, for so long when I would talk about it, I always went to the back of my head because it's in that part of our head. It's kind of in the back of our head is where it is in the brain. But the RAS system, everybody knows. I'm going to explain to you what the RAS system does very, very quickly, which is if you've ever been in the market for a car and you had a particular car that you like, so let's say a white four door Honda Accord, okay, we'll leave women. We don't think in years and specifics, we. So when you're looking for that white four door Honda Accord, all of a sudden your brain, your RAS system sits up and says, oh, I have a job to do. And you start seeing everywhere, whether you're pulling into the parking lot of the grocery store, when you get to work, as you're riding on the highway, the car's coming at you and the ones next to you, you see, you're like, everybody is driving a white 4 Honda Accord because your RAS system has sat up and said, you gave me a job. You threw it a bone and it's chasing it down. Because the other analogy that I like to use with our brain is it's like the perfect dog that plays fetch. You throw at a stick, your brain says, that's the stick I'm going to go chase and I'm going to bring it back and I'm going to show you this is what you told me to get. So if you wake up in the morning and say, I'm going to have a really crappy day and your brain all day long is going to bring you a stick that reminds you and tells you this day is crappy because that is part of your reticular activating system, you have given it a job and now it is on high alert. Um, and it's a good thing because we're not conscious to every, we're not supposed to be conscious to every, every little thing. Um, because then we would be overstimulated and we wouldn't be able to accomplish anything. That's why sometimes you can drive home and not really think about all the turns that you made and that you're home already. That's happened to everybody. Where you're like, I got here so fast. Because your brain was thinking about something else while it was driving home, something it knows how to do. So, uh, your reticular activating system isn't supposed to be on high alert to everything. But when it comes to training our brain, we want to use, we want to. I want people to be in this thing, this mindset of saying, oh, let me turn on my RAS system because it works for us when we need to make a change, when we need to do some rewiring of our brain, we use the reticular activating system we had.

Speaker B: Um, I have a friend of mine that I talked to about this the other day, my friend Christy.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And she was talking about what she had done the day before. And she said, I woke up and I just didn't feel like going to my torture session. And I thought for a second about that and I realized she was talking about CrossFit. And so she was talking about the next day. She's like, I really need to make myself get out of bed when I wake up. And even if I have to go sit in the parking lot for two hours until the session starts, otherwise if I get back in bed, I am not going to want to leave. And I looked at her and said, this is literally what Michelle and I are talking about on the podcast tomorrow is this whole way of how you term or you, um, describe something like your body talked itself, getting back to the comfortable zone. And it feels so good. And it's, yeah, um, your brain's like,

Speaker A: why would I want to go get tortured?

Speaker B: It feels so great.

Speaker A: It's your favorite place.

Speaker B: And I can sleep another hour. I can sleep.

Speaker A: Sleep in bed versus torture. Which one's safe and comfortable? Yeah.

Speaker B: And I told her one of the things we had touched on last week was you're. You need to speak it out loud what you want. And I jumped ahead to kind of what our homework is after this session and told her to do that. Um, which is how do we be self aware and have self mastery over our bodies to make the adult parenting choices that our bodies need for ourselves? Or the, um, of this exercise is good for me and gonna sustain the long term goals that I have. And so let's talk about how we actually practically.

Speaker A: How do you engage the RAS system? Yeah, yeah.

Speaker B: How do you, how do you practically start. Start training it? Where does it start?

Speaker A: I think it starts from the minute your eyes pop open in the morning. We are so good at taking a quick and it's unconscious assessment of ourself. The minute our eyes open in the morning, of assessing whether we, you know, need to get up and brush our teeth right away, go to the bathroom, or oh my gosh, I have this ache in my back or I didn't get enough sleep or I feel grumpy. Like we do that, everybody does that. But it's very unconsciously. You've already decided all the different systems, how are they? And we have to, if we want to engage our RAS system to work for us and not against us, we have to decide that in the mornings when our eyes pop open, when we're doing that, be conscious of the assessment that we're taking of all the systems. But I like to say, ask yourself, how am I feeling? Because you are already doing that. But be conscious of it. How am I feeling? There are Times where I wake up and I'm like, I feel grumpy. And I need to be conscious of the fact that I feel grumpy, because then the next question, well, do I want to feel grumpy all day? How do I want to feel? And when we. That's just the very tip of starting to engage. Our RAS system is assessing where we are. Because if you don't know where you are, your RAS system, your brain is going to speak to where you are if you don't become conscious of it. So if you're not willing to, you know, be aware that you're grumpy or you're sad or you're anxious, you will go about your whole day in that mindset or those emotions, whether you've been conscious of it or not, because your brain is very conscious of it. But if you can say, I feel anxious this morning, or I'm feeling grumpy, or I'm. I'm feeling overwhelmed, but I don't know if I want to all day. I don't want to feel this all day. Um, once we get to that place where we can say, well, how do I want to feel? Then kind of your brain starts to take over to help you. Well, what can I do to get there? I often ask. I tell clients, look, it helps if you'll write three things down that will help you get to the place you want to feel. I have it on my bathroom mirror. Um, I have a joy list. Um is what I call it. And it's a list of things that I can go to that I don't even have to think through what they are that I know. If I do one or two of those things, it instantly puts me in a better place mindset. So for me, it might be a Coke Zero in the afternoon or it's, um, having 15 minutes of meditation. I have just a list of things that I know I can turn to, and it helps me to have that list already done so that I don't sit there. Because sometimes when you're grumpy and you think, well, what could you do? Your brain is like, nothing. Just nothing. Nothing's gonna make me feel like your brain will shut down and work against you. But if you know you have a list that you can go look at, mine's in my bathroom and that I'm looking at, I'm like, pick one. Just pick one that will do something to change the system. You're looking for an interrupter to the system.

Speaker B: I like that.

Speaker A: Yeah, me too. We're. We're I hadn't said that before, but you are. You're looking for an interrupter to the system. Because once you get your brain on board to work for you, it does its job really well. Um, the speaking it out. You've brought that up a couple times with, um. For me, I was in a great place of walking every day. And we have life circumstances that derail us. I don't know if that ever happens to you. Like, you're in a good system. You know, maybe you're eating well and you're walking, you're doing all your things. And then something happens in life and it's. It disrupts you and to try to get back on that. So for me, it was my dad passing for a year and a half. I mean, I was on this exercise program I was doing for. It was so great. I was so proud of myself. And then grief comes in and grief is a major disruptor. And I remember trying to get myself back into that. And I had to really use this system where I would say to myself in the morning, you know, that when you go walk. And I'd say it out loud, you're gonna feel so much better when you come home. Because all the chem. Not just because I exercised. And yay, I get a gold star for, uh. Not that it was the chemicals that are gonna happen in your body and in your brain because you just walked and moved your body. You're gonna feel so good, Michelle. You're gonna say thank you. And I would say that out loud. Now. It helps. I'm home by myself, so I don't feel as silly saying that out loud, but my brain hears that so that after a couple days and I'. You. It's only a couple of days of saying it out loud and being silly because it feels silly. Within the week, I'm in bed where it's like, oh, I just wanna.

Speaker B: We just.

Speaker A: We don't wanna have to do that today. And my brain's like, hey, but we know we're gonna feel so much better. And I remember when that clicked for me. I'm like, oh, it worked. My brain is saying what I've been telling it, uh, to tell me you're gonna feel so much better when you go walk. And I get up and walk. Instead of it giving me reasons of why staying in bed is better, I switched. I rewired it. I gave it the information to make me safe and comfortable. But it was better for me because my body is like, oh, we feel better. That means you're Safe and comfortable when you feel better by walking. So I gave it two different informations. Um, you know, when we continue to say, but staying in bed and sleeping and being under the covers, it's raining outside, this is just so much more what I need. I'm not saying that those days aren't. That's. This is not about that. It's about what we want our brain to do for us. And when I tell it, hey, me walking is actually better for me, and it makes me feel better than staying in bed. It switched and it got on board and it started to work in that direction for me.

Speaker B: Uh, as you're talking about this, my. I'm thinking about two different things. One of them is there's a reason why we've done these podcasts in this order is because I've done that. I. I got up and walked every day. I met the first rays of the morning light to activate my adrenal system, and I felt fresh and wonderful and I felt so great walking every day. And I met all these neighbors. Yada, yada, yada, disruptors happened. I stopped doing it. I tripped and fell and I hurt my foot. You know, the things that, that take us out of it. And, um, while you were talking, I'm like, yeah, but then the importance of the captive thoughts versus the freedom thoughts. Right? That state of being. Because the captive thoughts can. Can sometimes encourage the, uh, ras to like, want you to stay in bed. That's right. And to be like, oh, yeah, but remember, you hurt your foot and it's so tiring and like, your shoes don't fit anymore and you've gotten out of the habit and you run out of breath too. You know it. All of the things. And that's. There's a reason why we do this in this order and present this because you need to know how to challenge those captive thoughts to get to the neutral transition place, to remind yourself it's there. These are companion pieces.

Speaker A: That's right.

Speaker B: Um, in the same way that self mastery and self awareness are the same, are two different sides of the same coin. I feel like you captive understanding captive and freedom states of being and your mental focus and understanding how, how you can feed, um, the mental thought production side of your brain, um, are the, the two different sides of the same coin?

Speaker A: That's right.

Speaker B: And now we haven't discussed this. This is a little off topic. But when I'm writing these things down, like, know where you are, like when you wake up in the morning and be honest about really where you are. And then say, how do I want to feel? And what are the three things I can do to get there? I'm picturing the problem solving in an office, in a workspace, sitting in a boardroom. M. If we took those same three principles and came in and were really honest with ourselves about where we are on a project and we're really honest about where we want that project to be and then we come up with some states of how can we get there. This is a great pattern for solving a lot of problems. And the reason why it struck me is because sometimes we are not honest with where we really are.

Speaker A: That's right.

Speaker B: And, and sometimes egos are involved and sometimes somebody's, you know, didn't. The project isn't going the same way. And, and um, sometimes our leadership or the people over it get angry when a project's not going the same way. So it's not an open space where you can say where we really are. I was in a conference for um, it was um, for employee owned companies and it was at this national convention, um, for um, employee owned companies. And uh, we were, I was listening to a woman talk about how important core values are for a company. And one of the things she said was you already have core values in your company. You just have to be honest with what they are.

Speaker A: That's right.

Speaker B: And um, I have been with companies who decided that they wanted to create the core values that are where they want to be. But the problem is, is they didn't do step one. And I, because I had been at that conference where they said you have got to be honest with what the values are your company already has. Even if they're not ones you wanted.

Speaker A: Yeah. What you intended.

Speaker B: And if you skip over that and just go to oh, this is what we want to be, then what you said was you're fighting. Your brain knows, your brain knows your

Speaker A: organ and let's say in an organization, the organism of that organization knows.

Speaker B: It knows.

Speaker A: That's why the initiatives that companies talk about doing and everyone then complains about in the back room because they don't, they're not sustainable. Mhm. Because you're fighting something that you, you didn't address from the very beginning.

Speaker B: Mhm. I was so thankful the, the conference that I was at was the NCEO national center for Employee Ownership. I was so thankful for so many of the opportunities I had going to that convention because I got to hear so many wise people tell stories about what they learned doing business. And sometimes it was mistakes that they made and that one just really rang true to me about companies, is you already have an operating system. You already have a value system in your company. You already have, um, and people know what it is, but if you're not honest with it, you cannot actually change it. You. Because going back to your kudzu analogy, or if you're. Or English Ivy, if you've ever tried to kill that stuff, if you do not get to the root system and pull it out, it's coming back. I was in my parents yard yesterday cutting daffodils from bulbs my father planted in the 80s that he brought back from. From Holland. I didn't. I had no idea that's where these bulbs came from. And he said, that's the first sign of spring, is whenever these bloom every year. And I planted them in the yard in the 80s. I mean, I couldn't, first of all, my parents ever leave that house. I'm digging those bulbs up number one. But right around the corner from the ivy is a sprig of holly. There has not been a holly bush there. But the root system on a holly bush.

Speaker A: That's right. Yeah, we have.

Speaker B: It will spread 20, 30, 40ft. They'll. They just. They don't die. It's impressive. But with this kudzu, with whatever analogy of plant life we want to talk about, it is an invasive thing that, uh, sometimes our thought patterns, whether from childhood, that are so deeply inherited or deeply rooted in us, take a long time to change and direct. And, um, we had a teacher in college that talked about, um, that sometimes it's layer after layer, truth upon truth, principle upon principle, foundation to build a strong foundation. Sometimes you just have to keep doing it over and over again to rewire the brain.

Speaker A: Well, I want. I want to. Because you are correct when. If we look at our root systems, that for every human being goes back to childhood. And this is where you get, especially your male count. You know, our male counterparts want to roll their eyes and be like, oh, I don't want to talk about my childhood. I mean, being a therapist, I've heard it all about why we don't need to, like, talk about all this stuff. And there's an acknowledge. It's simply a lot of times when I find people who are saying, hey, look, I'm coming to this because I don't want to dig up stuff in my childhood. Okay, but let's acknowledge. Let's at least acknowledge that you have root systems there. If you're not willing to pull it out, I don't want people to Hear, it takes so much work to do this, because it doesn't. Now if you want to dig up the root system and you want to get into that, that is work. But there is going to be a, there is effort on both sides of whether you're digging up the root system. Because if you've ever had to dig up a root system, that takes a long time and it's a lot of hard work and there's probably a lot of cuss words, you got to be

Speaker B: gracious to yourself about it.

Speaker A: But on the flip side, if you're saying, look, the root system's there, it's in place, just understand that it's like taming IV or kudzu. You're going to be cutting it back and you're going to be coming back to it over and over so your brain will get in line with you. It's like for me, with this whole like, why can't I get back to that two year span that I had of being really good and walking? I mean, I had friends who were like, gosh, you inspire me because you do this every day. Like you. And I was like me, who never did this before. I was very proud of myself. And I think, why can't I get back to that? I am not still in a ball of green. You know, I give my reasons of why it shouldn't be that way, but it, the reality is I keep coming back to the training of it and having to come back and say, look, the brain will get into this. I'm going to commit to rewiring this part of my brain and we do it, but I have to keep coming back to it.

Speaker B: Something you said in an earlier episode about speaking it out loud and you talked about it today with your mantra or something you have on your, um, uh, mirror.

Speaker A: My joy list.

Speaker B: Yeah, your joy list is, um, reminding ourselves about that and saying, this is where I want to be. It's, um, a measure of accountability. Henry Cloud has a book on boundaries that we actually did in our, in a workshop at, at one of my, at my previous company. And he described accountability, um, in a way I'd never really heard it before is, um, reminding each other of what the goal is and seeing how your behaviors had aligned with the goal. I mean, that's literally what you're talking about here. And um, being able to remind yourself of what the goal is with being gracious to yourself when, when you're not necessarily meeting it. But, um, in case you're not, like, I am not going to try to Destroy my entire. The front of my house by killing off all of the pricker bush. The, the, the holly plants that keep, they keep sprouting up. I just keep cutting them off right at the top because I'm not. And it's okay. I don't have to, I don't have to pull the whole root out. I just have to not let them, I don't let them get ground.

Speaker A: Don't let it take over. That's right. I see. I knew you could get on board with my garden.

Speaker B: Just want it to be English ivy, I think, instead of kudzu. All right, so we just have a few minutes left, um, for today's session. And I want us to, you know, it's not just a switch we can quickly flip and all of a sudden be there. We have to go to that transitional space that we call a neutral space. But we have, um, you talked about, um, kind of the steps that we take and I think let's kind of put some homework out there of, um, you know, kind of for like the next seven days. Whether you want to put it on a post it note or whether you want to put it on your mirror or on your phone as a reminder. There are about three steps that you had written out of what you want, like just to do it for seven days. And so seven days explain kind of that you've already talked about it. But

Speaker A: so I want the, the homework would be that whether it's on your phone at least I, I think it's help most helpful if you do it before, like you sit up in bed, but before you get out of bed. But for most people, that's. I've heard that's very challenging. So if nothing else, write it on your bathroom mirror because generally everybody goes there first. Um, so that you're looking and you're reminded to ask yourself, how do I feel? Be honest. How am I feeling? Where is my state of being?

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: That's just. What state am I in? That's easy.

Speaker B: Mentally, emotionally, physically, spiritually.

Speaker A: Spiritually. Yeah, relationally. Relationally. Yep, definitely. So for me it's. The top ones are emotionally, mentally, relationally, because those three drive everything else. So how am I, how am I really? Um, the second one, the second question you write down is how do I want to feel? And I know we talked about our thoughts influence our feelings. Feelings influence our behaviors. Um, it's easier though, with human beings to. They can work the problem backwards. Easier if they start with feelings, because feelings are so prominent to us.

Speaker B: I love a good Reverse engineering of things.

Speaker A: Yeah, I love it. You say it a lot. So that's why I'm saying, how do I want to feel? Because how do I want to feel then? Will lead to the question your thought patterns. And then also moving forward. What kind of behavior? So what can you do to get there? What are the things that you can do to get to the place? Three things. Do it mentally in your m. Mind. Write down a note. Write down the three things that you can do that will help you get to take those steps to get you where you want to feel. So that's my homework. Um, those things, when we can take that gives us a sense of control. When we know, hey, I can do these three things because those are the three things I can control. And they help move me forward or into a more, um, freedom state of being and how I want to feel. And, um, I would. I like to encourage people to think about what your thought process. What are you labeling. What are you calling it? Like your friend Christy. Yeah, definitely gotta change the name of my torture session.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: Like, think about what your thoughts are so that you could. Because if your brain truly. If your brain is thinking something is torturous, it's gonna have a real hard time.

Speaker B: Well, I mean, that's funny. And it's so. You know what it is. But, like, it's. It. I got a text message from her today. She's like, I did it. I got out of bed. I went to it. I'm not not calling it a torture session. I'm reminding myself of why I'm doing this. And, um, it worked. It worked. And I got a text message while we were sitting right here, and she said, I did it.

Speaker A: And that's the key is because she. She reversed engineered it to what she was. What was she putting in her brain? And that's what I want people to do. But you can't do that if you're not honest about you feel in the moment. And then how do you want to feel? And then what do you have control over to help get you there?

Speaker B: Yeah, I. Thinking about relationships. You know when you wake up in the middle of the night and your brain's running a mile a minute? I did this the other day after we had talked about this. I woke up and said, okay, I'm going to. Out loud. I said, I am laying back down and I'm going to sleep for another hour. And then I laid back down and closed my eyes, and I was able to sleep another hour. I was really proud of myself. But sometimes When I'll wake up. It's like a mental checklist of the things that are not going well. And I did not realize how my first thoughts every day were negative. And it wasn't until, like we started. And uh, actually when I was learning to do scuba diving and was beginning to be more self aware of my negative conscious thoughts. And one of the things that you're going to start doing is just become. I just want to encourage everybody at the beginning stages of this, don't try to change the thoughts. Just be aware of them. Be aware of them and then replace them with the thoughts that you want to have. Like, because I, you know, it's. Sometimes you just need to give yourself a little bit of grace and comfort and understanding and kindness and let the thoughts go and be aware of them. But realize that you get. You can choose to have other thoughts and other things and not try to fix them all at once.

Speaker A: Well, you know, I always say nothing happens if we don't start with awareness first. Awareness is always first. Well, you. That's. I mean, that's why we started with self mastery. We have to be aware of ourself and then of others and how we're impacting others.

Speaker B: You and I both grew up riding horses, and I was learning to ride with an English saddle. And you have to be aware of every place your body is touching the horse. With your leg, with your heels, with your. Like. It was a constant focus on Catherine, where are your heels? My heels were never down far enough unless I lost my stirrups. And my instructor would take my stirrups away from me sometimes just so my legs would get in the right position so that I could become more aware of my body. Where. How are you touching the reins? How are you hold. I mean, slight differences about that, but it's a practice of being aware of our bodies and how. Of our things and also our words. And I could go down the rabbit hole of analogies. I'm trying to rein it in on this episode, but, um, English Ivy is prettier than kudzu. That's all I'm going to say.

Speaker A: Okay, well, this might be a good time for us to talk about the fact that we've created a product that everyone can. If you really like this exercise of wanting to train your reticular activating system, we created a product called the this Day Journal that you can get on Amazon and you can do it every single day.

Speaker B: Insert the picture right here in my hands of what the this Day Journal looks like.

Speaker A: That's right.

Speaker B: We'll attach a link.

Speaker A: Yes, you can go get the this day journal that will lead you through this exercise in the morning and in the evening. And it takes about three minutes.

Speaker B: Yeah. And that is something that we do need to do a little promo for because it literally follows this whole. It is designed to guide your brain into through this exact same step problem. And then it also has a thing at night that you can unpack kind of what you did at night and

Speaker A: allow your brain to turn off.

Speaker B: That's right. Speaking of that. All right, we're gonna turn off. We're done.

Speaker A: This episode has been brought to you by foxygen this day journal

Speaker B: found at your local Amazon.

Speaker A: The Healthy Hurried Human podcast is presented by foxygen Consulting. At foxygen, we provide business and performance psychology and consulting. We believe healthier people make a healthier workplace. Foxygen Consulting, breathing new life into your organization. Sam.