Master Your Mind: Breaking Free from Mental Captivity to True Freedom

Speaker A: I'm Michelle.

Speaker B: And I'm Kathryn.

Speaker A: And we're here at the Healthy Hurried Human Podcast, where we talk about keeping

Speaker B: pace in a world that never slows down.

Speaker A: Welcome back to the Healthy Hurried Human Podcast.

Speaker B: It's good to be back with you again.

Speaker A: I know we don't get to see

Speaker B: each other as much anymore.

Speaker A: I know. But I love this time. So last time we had been talking about two states of being. Captive versus freedom, right?

Speaker B: Yes, we had mentioned it. Yes.

Speaker A: So we probably want to dive in on that a little bit more today because hopefully for listeners are asking their question, I need to hear more about captive versus freedom.

Speaker B: Well, I know I did the first time we had this. You talked to me about this conversation and I kept trying to come up, you know, like, really understand why you chose these two pieces of terminology to describe these two states of being.

Speaker A: Well, because we have. Here's how the brain works. Most people don't understand this. They think everything comes from their feelings or their emotions first. And it doesn't. Everything comes from our thoughts that lead to emotions and feelings, and then feelings and emotions lead to actions or behaviors. And. And, um, when we want to, in my profession, when we want to help people understand where's your feelings, where's your behaviors coming from? We have to get them to go to their thoughts. And in order to do that in a simple, measured way, there's kind of figured out that there's these two states of being. One is captive, which means the thoughts and the feelings and the emotions that we have keep us in this. Sorry to keep saying the same word. Captive cycle. We can't quite get out of it versus when we're in a state of freedom. We are not held in a cycle. We're going in a trajectory of forward, uh, motion. We're moving in the right direction. We feel, um. What's another synonym for freedom? We feel, um, energized. We feel that we have hope and we can keep going forward. We're making progress. Um, that's kind of where those two states of I. It's easy to. For me to help people. It's easier for me to help people when I can help them identify. Are you being held captive by your thought and feelings, or are these thoughts and feelings moving you forward?

Speaker B: One of the characteristics that helped me understand the captive state is that when you're held captive, there isn't. You don't. You don't know how to get yourself out of that state of being. And, um, one of the things that we talk about or that you help people and guide people to learn is steps to take to get yourself out of that mindset. And that was really helpful for me to realize that. The reason why you call it captive is that there's. You're stuck, there's no, um. And you don't know how to get out of being in that place. And it just seems to be in a cycle of repetition or a downward spiral. And you're captive because you don't know how to get yourself out of it. And in a freedom state, it doesn't mean you don't have bad days. It doesn't mean that you're not discouraged. You have a, um, process when you recognize and understand, hey, this is how I'm feeling. You have a process of how to choose a different thought process or thought pattern.

Speaker A: Thought pattern. Yeah. That's good.

Speaker B: To. To change that to something that will be progressive and helpful.

Speaker A: It. When we think of it in the cycle, I. I like to think about the spin cycle on your washing machine that in order to interrupt it because it's programmed to go from spin to stopping, you know, it's. Hopefully if your washer's working right, it's programmed right. But if you want to stop the spin cycle, you have to, like, press a button. If you want to interrupt it, you have to press a button. You have to interrupt that cycle to get it to stop. And when we're in this state of, uh, being held captive, we need something or someone to hit manually hit that stop button. And what you're talking about is excellent. Because when you're in a state of freedom and you understand these two states and you understand I'm either in one or the other, you have tools at your disposal to manually stop that spin cycle and stop the being held captive by these thoughts that we have that then lead to emotions that we have that then lead to behaviors and actions that oftentimes start the cycle all over because of guilt and shame. And it's like, you know, why do. Why do I eat all these brownies when I feel sad and I'm having a bad day and now I feel really bad because I ate brownies and you know what I mean? Like, it just. It leads. One leads to the other, and we can't quite get out of it.

Speaker B: Yeah, I think I was, um, in. In a work setting, like, thinking of an example in a work setting where it could be as simple as, um, you're going into a meeting and you've had a bad experience with this meeting prior to that, and a negative emotion Attached to that.

Speaker A: That's right. Or coworkers or whoever's looking at you,

Speaker B: the who's in the group or what we're doing and you're. And that we're never gonna get anything done. And you know, you have these negative thought. Well, what, what I would say is, um, um, thoughts that are not helping you be progressive or hopeful or moving forward. And then, you know, you, if, if everybody comes to the meeting like that, nothing ever gets right, get taken care of. And you're so frustrated because you've wasted time. And in, in that scenario, um, that's a little different than just in your internal musings because it's an external thing of, you know, let's take the mindset of how can we do something differently in this upcoming meeting. Right.

Speaker A: A state of freedom would say, I feel like these meetings never accomplish anything. But a state of freedom says, what can I contribute? What's in my control that I can contribute, that is going to, when I walk out, feel like, hey, we moved the needle. That's a state of freedom. That's a good example.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: Of how to do this at work.

Speaker B: Well, and sometimes for me it's like, what's your role in that meeting? And maybe you need to not speak. Like, um, don't take an opportunity to add something new to the table or worry about something like try to focus on what needs to be accomplished in this meeting this day. And that's again, a part of self mastery is knowing yourself and knowing that like I might have a propensity to um, stir a pot about one particular issue that maybe is my struggle on that project. But if every week it's what slows us down, then having self awareness and self mastery means I don't bring that up in that meeting. I find another way to go and deal with that because that's not what that meaning is trying to accomplish.

Speaker A: Right. That's an, that's a, that's an excellent point with going back to last week's conversation about self mastery. Yeah. And being aware of how, um, our attitudes and um, perception of things plays out with the people around us. Mhm. At work. That's important. That's really good.

Speaker B: So a lot of this like captive versus freedom, it's not just, it's not just a switch that we flip. Right. This is a practice, this is a discipline that we have to start a muscle we have to start developing in our lives.

Speaker A: It is. And I'm really glad that you brought that up, Katherine, because it is not. I want to Be so careful that people don't think it's just, hey, go from um, being captive to being in a state of freedom. It isn't that. And this is where I don't know if you're familiar with the term positive or toxic positivity. Um, that was kind of a buzzword for the last couple of years where people were starting to get irritated at the like just be joyful, just choose joy and you know, the little plaques and as though we can just flip a switch from going from being sad and not joyful to oh, just be joy. Oh, oh, that's it, that's what we do. That's that positive, uh, the toxic positivity that a lot of people were talking about.

Speaker B: Or it's a forced thing and it feels unnatural. That's right, because you're gritting your teeth trying to do it.

Speaker A: So this is, this is one of my favorite things to teach people with, with the two states of being is it's not, you're not trying to flip a pancake. I'm not going to go from being held captive to uh, honestly just be in a state of freedom by just telling myself to do that or forcing it. You know, um, that's like putting a square peg in a round hole kind of thing. We have to go through neutral. There is a way to go from captive to, in order for it to be sustainable for us to go. Sure. Sometimes can you tell yourself, okay, we're going into this meeting, let's have a better attitude. I mean it might work.

Speaker B: Sure.

Speaker A: I'm not going to say it's not work. We're, we're human beings, we're capable, but it's not sustainable. The only way to make it sustainable is to one, we have to be able to identify that we're in this space captive state. This is holding me captive. I'm not being, um, I'm not able to um, move forward or progress or to grow with these thoughts, with these feelings, with these behaviors. So we have to identify it. The second is understanding we have to go to a place of neutral. So if you know how to drive a stick shift, in order to go from year one, you've got to hit neutral to get to gear two. Now we don't stay in neutral for long, um, but we can because sometimes depending on the situation or how big our thoughts are, how big our emotions are, we may need to stay in that neutral a little bit longer. But neutral is just simply becoming fact based. So focusing on what is true, uh, you have to be factual So I often explain it to people. It's as if somebody put you on a stage, stand in a courtroom, and they question you and what you say, nobody on the other side could say, I object. That's not true. It, it's, it's factual information.

Speaker B: So, like, if we were using that analogy of the meeting, it would be, okay, this is the purpose of the meeting. I'm in the meeting. The meeting consists of these people. That's not going to change. Um, we all have the same goal and intention to get to have progress. Is that the type of facts that you're talking about? This drives me crazy. Or, you know, what level of fact listing would you. Is. Is that because. Because it's. So it sounds like. Just to clarify that neutral is a trans. Is the transition spot, right? You go to neutral and you're trying to remove the emotive, uh, emotional pieces to it and just get to the, the, the, um, the facts that are like, nobody can question.

Speaker A: So it could be things like, you know, when we at work, we are dreading a meeting for the fact that maybe the meetings are useless and they feel like they waste time. That's one reason people hate meetings. The other is somebody's a bore or they're bullish, the person leading it, they're boring, or they overrun everybody. Um, we feel like we don't have anything to offer. So those are. I'm sure there's way more, but those

Speaker B: are just a few unprepared. Like maybe you haven't done the work or you're dreading it because you're unprepared or you shouldn't be part of the meeting.

Speaker A: Um, I think either of those could work for sure. But I'm thinking more of people. I know how I've felt in meetings where I've offered something and I get completely. Nobody seems to take what I have to offer, or it doesn't seem like I offer anything that's substantial or I feel small or I feel. I feel inferior to everybody else. I mean, these are things I felt when I've walked into meetings.

Speaker B: Overlooked, not respected, not a respected part, not a full, weighted member of the team.

Speaker A: And so I think in order to look when you're held captive, I can't say that this, this doing this exercise is going to make you be like, hot dang, that was a great meeting. But I think instead of you going into that meeting and when you leave, you feel like all of your energy, all of your, um, enjoyment of the day, or maybe you were kind of enjoying the Day, maybe it's a Friday meeting. I mean, that's the worst to have a meeting on a Friday. But you feel like you've just been deflated because of it, right? I'm not. But when you can change from a place of being captive going into that meeting, I think when you go through neutral, and I'm. I'm gonna use those examples in a minute, I'm gonna come back to that. You can still leave that meeting not feeling like you don't have anything to offer, like it was a waste of your time. Um, you. You don't understand why you're working with these people. That kind of. I think you can leave that meeting with a different mindset and a different feeling so that you don't feel like a deflated balloon. One of the ways that you would maybe do that is go to the facts of who you are and what you bring to the table. Maybe not at that meeting, but think about, hey, you know, last week, my manager actually really appreciated the Excel sheet that I turned in. I offered something. That's a fact. She appreciated that. Even sent me an email showing me appreciation. Um, help me out here with other factuals.

Speaker B: You know, there's a reason some. Somehow you got into that meeting, right? Were you asked to be part of that meeting? Are you part of that team? Like, at some point you were deemed the appropriate person to be in that meeting. And, um, I know for. From personal experience, it's okay to also acknowledge, um, you know, let's say you have somebody in the team. Um, you know, I don't know what to name them. We'll call them Katherine. Just. That's my name. And, um. Catherine threw you under the bus in the past meeting. It's okay to acknowledge she threw me under the bus. She was looking out for her own interest. It wasn't what I had done. It was selfish on her part, or it was calculated on her part. It's not a reflection, truly, of who I am. And sometimes to acknowledge, like, I know for my personal. For me doing this exercise, it was to acknowledge. The fact is, yeah, I kind of got blindsided in the last. Last time meeting.

Speaker A: That's good.

Speaker B: But it wasn't because anything I had done, and it doesn't mean I go back and retaliate, but I need to know that it wasn't on me or factual.

Speaker A: I love what you're saying right now because you're saying it's okay to be factual about labeling other people's behavior for probably their own reasons of being held captive for Other things. But you are labeling. Hey, that was bad behavior on their part. That was not about me.

Speaker B: It wasn't about me.

Speaker A: That's really good.

Speaker B: Well, and that was a very helpful practice for me to get out of. Because the emotions. I'm a very emotional person. The emotions were holding me captive. And I, I had a colleague of mine one time do me such a great service and came to me after a meeting and apologized for like, laughing at something that happened the meeting. And he said, I didn't understand the seriousness of what had happened in the history that you all had in this meeting.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: And he said, you're very passionate and, and you have a tendency to get emotional in, in your passion. And I think that the CEO or the other people, all they see is you being emotional and they stop listening to you. And he said, what you have to say has value and you. And it was so. It was such kindness on his part.

Speaker A: Right? Yeah.

Speaker B: To help me see that because I was so frustrated that they wouldn't listen to me. But, uh, to say, oh, you know, and, and he was very kind in saying, it's your passion because you care about things fully. And of course we want you to care about things fully, but is if you want to be heard. Right. So, like, for me, the next time we went to the meeting, I knew, okay, what, what. At the end of the day, I just. I want them to hear me because I have a good thing to say. So I need to put it in a vehicle that they'll listen. They're not going to listen if I'm on my crusader soapbox. They're gonna listen through facts and, uh, quiet. A more quieter approach. And it, um, was such a gift that he gave me that it became a practice that I put into place to prep before I went into meetings with certain people. And it's, it's part of self mastery. Like sometimes you'll have people who'll come along the way and say, you've got great energy, but in this situation, you know, harness that energy differently. It was, it was a great, it was a great gift to me. And I. And, and that was a person that then I knew I could trust because they came to me in, in such a way that I could receive it to help me be a better person.

Speaker A: And you were able to use this MHM tool to propel you.

Speaker B: But also I was also able to say, ooh, I let my emotions get the better of me in a meeting. And so the next time or before a meeting, I would prepare myself mentally of What I was. What I want to go into. Go to neutral and, um, get to that space where it's not, you know, I'm, um, a scuba diver, so neutral buoyancy is a. Is a whole different thing for us. And when I think about it, like, taking a too deep of a breath or too shallow of a breath or two, breathing too fast just throws you way off kilter. Right. And for me, that's such a, um, an analogy for me emotionally, when I'm in a meeting or. Cause I'm pretty passionate about a lot of things. And so, you know, to say that, hey, like, let's. And I would mentally say, just swim a lap. Just get. Take a couple deep breaths and swim. I started using the swimming analogy for me as a mental headspace to go practicing the pause.

Speaker A: Really? That's practicing the paw? Yeah.

Speaker B: We haven't even talked about last. Our, uh, homework from last week of practicing the pause.

Speaker A: Practicing the pause. Well, what you. What your. Your colleague did for you, which I was really good because he pointed out the facts of what you bring to the table and gave you a different vehicle for how to get where you wanted to go. So he brought you to. He actually brought. Helped you get to a state of freedom with it. And what happens when we go, uh, to neutral is we get factual, which sort of starts training or taming our brain. Because something about, um, our brain that I think everyone should know is our brain is there for. To do two things. It's got two goals to always accomplish, and that is to keep us safe and to keep us comfortable. And comfortable, um, is not always factual

Speaker B: or beneficial or beneficial or progressive or integrative or moving us forward. Is that. Is that where they came with the, uh, get out of your comfort zone? Is that why they created that?

Speaker A: You know, I don't know. Maybe we'll have to talk to Nike, because I think they started it with the Just do it anyways.

Speaker B: Uh, so our brain always wants us to be safe and comfortable, and comfort's not always factual. There's. When we were talking about this, you also talked about the importance of hearing it in our own voice, like speaking. Our voice speaking to our brain.

Speaker A: So it. One of the things that's important for us to do is because our brain is like, oh, stay in bed. Or, um, you know, my example for this, I have a great. This is perfect. I, uh, really like milkshakes. But milkshakes, because of the sugar content, make me sick. Like, they make me sick. And everybody has. Everybody has something like that, especially when it comes to food, like, there's something we like, but it causes something, whether it's indigestion or whatever. People with dairy. I see my kids do it all the time. I want the ice cream, but they know they're gonna pay for it later. There's something that, when we. That's our brain saying, hey, that's comfortable, but it's not safe. And our brain will choose one or the other. Um, not always comfortable and safe at the same time. Comfort is, I love the milkshake, and I want the milkshake. Safe is like, don't do the milkshake. You're gonna be really sick. Right. But one will win out sometimes. And it's important for us to acknowledge what's not good for us so that our brain then gets on board for both at the same time. So I would love to have a milkshake. I mean, a, uh, vanilla milkshake is just the best. But I remember putting it together that it makes me really sick. So oftentimes we want to avoid feeling sick. But if I say to myself, if I drink that milkshake out loud, I'm going to feel sick. I do that a couple times. It doesn't even take six or seven times. It's just a couple times my. My brain hears my voice, and it's. It's like compound interest. It's going to hear it in double or triple time to give you a new wiring. That's how the people are. Always you, you. You know, especially people in my career. Psychologists, therapists. Say we got to rewire the brain to a lay person. You're like, I don't. What is that? Like we're unplugging and plugging. Yeah, basically. But in order to help do that in. In a quicker form, speak things out loud so your brain hears your voice and then almost files it away. Double time, triple time. It's kind of. I don't know how to better explain, uh, it. There's probably neurologists and people who have higher degrees than me and more experience who could tell you exactly how that's working in the brain. But I know that when I have said things out loud to myself or I've acknowledged, hey, see, doing that made me feel so much better. And it feels silly. Like, we feel silly walking around our room saying, hey, you know, the fact that I just walked and exercised for 30 minutes made me feel so much better somehow. The next day, I'm not fighting my brain that says, oh, we don't want to put on our clothes or we want to stay in bed. It's not, it's like the brain says, yeah, but I think we actually are going to feel better. Like it starts to happen when we speak it out loud.

Speaker B: That's, I mean it's just such a fascinating concept in that really knowing we were going to do this podcast last, you know, the last couple days have been cold and rainy and um, just a good day to not leave the house and you want to cuddle down and you know, a cup of hot tea and.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Biscuit and a movie. A comfort movie. Um. Is that why they call them our, our comfort movies?

Speaker A: That's right.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: We go to things that are comfortable when we are feeling. When we're thinking and we're feeling a certain way. We go to things to make us comfortable and, and um, everything has an impact on that. I was thinking about this yesterday. I'm like, the weather really does impact a lot of people, um, and can change your mood. And then there are some people who are like, the weather has no bearing. I find those people a little strange because I'm a person who's impacted by weather. Um, but then there's people who are impacted by, um, the ambiance in a room. I have friends who cannot be in a room that is highly cluttered. And that doesn't bother me. We have to be in a place where we are understanding that everybody around us does not filter the outside world the same way that we do. We have to be conscious of that. I'm sure if I ask most people, hey, you know, that, that people don't filter the world to say, oh, of course, of course they don't. But we're not conscious of it. We're not acting in consciousness of it. Um, we probably spend a lot of time around people who are concrete thinkers.

Speaker B: Oh, and that's a, that was such a big conversation for me with my last company was Concrete versus Abstract thinkers.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: And um, you know, I'd been a third grade teacher and eight year olds or that was the average age.

Speaker A: Very concrete.

Speaker B: Yeah, very concrete. Very black and white. Um, it wasn't until you matured a little bit that you could start seeing gray areas. Then I taught fifth grade. It was so much more fun.

Speaker A: And they're better at it.

Speaker B: Well, yeah, but they had, they, they got humor differently and there um, was more creativity there. And um, but in my last job we were doing job behavior assessments and talking about that you can move from concrete thinking to abstract thinking.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: And the importance of abstract thinking. And uh, you Know being able to see outside of the box. Some people naturally see outside of the box.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: And, um, I'm one of those people that can see the problems that are going to come for us when we launch. So visionaries don't really love it because. But, but I'm just like, listen, I'm just gonna bring the problems. We just clear the problems and we can do.

Speaker A: You're like, pew, pew, pew, down their balloons.

Speaker B: But, well, it's not just that. It's like, hey, I'm very valuable because I'm going to tell you the obstacles that are coming for you. Let's clear the obstacles with. We can do it. Um, but I have to. Self mastery is knowing how to present that.

Speaker A: That's right.

Speaker B: Instead of saying, we're going to meet your goals, we're m. I'm on board. Uh, these are the things that I've. I'm compiling of. Of challenges we're going to have. We're going to have like you just. It's all about the presentation and, you know, affirming the visionaries.

Speaker A: You are very good at that because I've seen you. You've done that for me because I'm a bit of a visionary. And you've. You, you. You are very. It is so key. And self mastery is the key here when it comes to number one, know what kind of thinker you are. Typically, we grew up people in human development. We grow out of concrete thinkers. But in certain industries like engineering, you work. You're probably, I'm sorry to generalize, but generally you're surrounded by a lot of concrete thinkers because engineering, just as an industry, is very concrete. There's not a lot of room for the abstract.

Speaker B: So how do you. How do you determine if you're a concrete or abstract thinker?

Speaker A: M. We didn't talk about that. Well, we were not prepared for that question.

Speaker B: Well, you're right. And maybe we shouldn't do that.

Speaker A: We shouldn't edit that out, please.

Speaker B: Well, um, one of the things that

Speaker A: I. I think you've got it. I think a more important question is identify whether you are a concrete, abstract, linear thinker. Find out what kind of thinker you are. I don't. I can't off the top of my head, think of how you're supposed to figure that out.

Speaker B: But there are a lot of job assessments. One of the job assessments that we used to do, the consultant said to me that you, um. The more of a reader a person is, reading seems to be the one thing that helps expand the mind. M. And move you out of concrete and into more of an abstract thinking. Which really means like because, because you're expanding your mind and seeing that there are more possibilities than just what you've encountered.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: And so the mind is expanding and growing. So when I was doing interviews, when I was interviewing people for certain roles, I would just say, and I would just say what's the last book you read? And it, and it would lead to many different other questions. And um, and then, and then I began to say, well, is it the same as a podcast? Is it the same as magazines? Is it the same like are you. Because if you say are you a learner? Oh, I'm a great learner. Well, not everybody's a lifelong learner, even if they think they are. So then I would ask the next question was what's the last thing you learned? And, and um, it would be. I had, I mean I had more than one person that would mention something nine years before or seven years before. Almost Every single one of them were always the same enneagram type and they were the same um, and they were

Speaker A: more type of thinker.

Speaker B: They were the same type of thinker, more concrete thinkers. Because um, a lifelong learner should have learned something two days ago.

Speaker A: Right?

Speaker B: You know, they, they see that as, as learning. And um, and, and I don't.

Speaker A: And do you think that concrete learners, because they're. Or concrete thinkers tend to have a hard time realizing that maybe they are a learner because it doesn't fit in a learning category?

Speaker B: Um, I'd have to really think about that. I can't. That's a. I don't know. I, I don't know. I think that what I have experienced with concrete thinkers is that they've come to a point where they think they know everything they need to know.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: And they're very self confident that they know what they need to know.

Speaker A: So it's probably safe to say that in the work, in the work environment your concrete thinkers are probably not aware of the fact that they are a concrete thinker.

Speaker B: They don't see anything wrong with it.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: They might be a person who's, who struggles to adapt, um, is hesitant to bring in new software, hesitant to see um, a new way of doing things. Why do we have to have a new way of doing things? They always work just fine. And um, they are a little bit hesitant to. They have a hard time learning new processes and procedures and it is a, um. They don't see the value in change. Now do not get me wrong, um, There are um, people who think want some. They chase after the new bright, shiny new thing and they constantly want to implement new things and they think that the newest process is going to fix all the problems.

Speaker A: Right, right.

Speaker B: That's not necessarily being an abstract thinker either. And um, that is a person who just constantly is throwing a new process at it, thinking the problems and they haven't really taken a step back to figure out what the problems are.

Speaker A: This is really interesting and I think we're going to have to probably stop here. But boy, this. There's an episode coming up where we're going to talk about where we see this concretely in the workplace because this sounds a lot about what you and I hear from our organizations with your generationals. You've got four generations in the workplace and your generation depending on their generation listening to this are saying oh my gosh, this is my workplace. But some of this is, has to do with how a generation approaches work. Um, this is really interesting and you know we love to talk about this.

Speaker B: It. Yeah. Because um, while we have said that balance isn't achievable when you are open, which abstract is often a little bit more open to new influences, then you can adapt new information to existing processes.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: And not lose that industry knowledge. And, and if the new. Because just because you implement a new process, um, doesn't mean that it's going to capture what the old process did successfully.

Speaker A: You know I'm coming, I want to come back as we're wrapping this up to your friend in the workplace who really put a mirror up for you.

Speaker B: Oh, such a great gift.

Speaker A: And told you hey, this is so much value that you have but you don't maybe know how people see you and read you. And a lot of what we're talking about last week or the last episode and and right now comes really boils down to still under that self mastery umbrella of being aware of how people read you, accept you, understand you anticipate you. That's a big one.

Speaker B: Um, it was a great gift. It was such a great gift and

Speaker A: we need that in the workplace.

Speaker B: That's right. That person, that colleague of mine, we had not been working super long together but the fact that he would come to me and affirm me and took a risk and I mean some might say it was a little pompous of him saying this is what I've seen. I think da da da da da.

Speaker A: Uh, well, he obviously had a relationship with you and knew he.

Speaker B: We were relatively new working together. But he read the Situation so accurately.

Speaker A: We.

Speaker B: What it did for me is it brought a sense of relief because I was so frustrated that I wasn't being heard. And that's a part of something. Who I am. I just want to. I want to be heard.

Speaker A: Yeah, I think everybody does. Yeah.

Speaker B: Um, I want to have a say in things. I also want to be able to throw my 2 cents in the air.

Speaker A: You want to contribute?

Speaker B: I do. Um, but it was such a gift that this person gave to me that because they wanted to help me be much more successful and to be heard. And ultimately I didn't want to die on the hill of being right and I wasn't going to die. That, you know about my. I was willing to change my approach to be more effective because at the end of the day, I wanted to be effective.

Speaker A: That is where I think I want to end. Because you. You saying I wanted to change that is your maturity in your self mastery. How do we know that we are developing in our self mastery? That's the maturity of knowing, hey, I need to. I need to change or I need to be aware and make alterations. Is that the right word? Yeah, that's a great for, um, the circumstances that I'm in and being at work. Because we spend so much time there is a great place for us to practice this because we're not around people who are particularly safe or who know us in our off time because we're. We are different at work and we have to, we have to be different. And so it's a great place for us to, to practice and to grow in our self mastery. My challenge for our listeners this week is to start being aware of what state of being there they are in. Am I being held captive by the thoughts and emotions and the behaviors that I have, or do I feel like I'm in a sense of freedom, which is where I am going forward. I'm progressing, I'm growing. That's my challenge. Yeah.

Speaker B: And when you identify those captive places, just ask yourself, what would a neutral place be for me?

Speaker A: What are the.

Speaker B: What are just the facts? The non emotional, the non driven. What are the facts about the situation? And you know, practice that pause, practice that transition in, um, to see if there's another way to think about it.

Speaker A: Yep. All right. Signing off from the Healthy Hurried Human. See you next time. The Healthy Hurried Human podcast is presented by Foxygen Consulting. At Foxygen, we provide business and performance psychology and consulting. We believe healthier people make a healthier workplace. Foxygen Consulting. Breathing new life into your organization.