Office Hours #890 | Made From Mistakes | Leadership Under Pressure: Crisis, Culture & the Power of Human-Centered Innovation

Speaker A: Yet to change your mindset at such a young age, have the Nick of wamb, the well oiled machine. Nick Lazer. Happy Memorial Day.

Speaker B: Happy Memorial Day my friend. It is uh, there's no place in the world I would rather be than here with you and with our community as we uh, show up each and every day, let alone celebrate everything celebratable. Uh, how are you feeling after our heck of a month in the last three weeks that we've had each and every week?

Speaker A: Yeah, the tour. It's nice to be back home on staycation and uh, just enjoying office hours made from mistakes. Episode 800 or so. You know, Gigi and I didn't count very well at the very beginning so it's at least 890 episodes. Uh, why don't we just set the room real quick before we bring Sujay on. Uh, he's being patiently as we are getting started. Uh, we are coming off like we said, 200 city tour this year, back on track this week but we have plenty of cities to share. Uh, our car wash of VIP dinners for charity holding, court meetups, interviews, uh, and of course all types of other great masterminds around the world. Real quickly, Nick, where are we going to be?

Speaker B: We're going to be in Newport beach this week for our incredible mastermind plus a car wash with Tim Storey and Bill Walsh and John Coyle and Kim Walsh. Phillips and I could go on and on but we'll be here.

Speaker A: Abraham, uh, all the legends.

Speaker B: It gets better and better. And then next week we're going to be in Los Angeles with the incredible Marie diamond, adding on a car wash there as well. Then it'll be off to Japan for the Japan edition of our car wash. Then we'll be in Louisville, Kentucky with the incredible Crash champions crew. That's Matt Ebert. I think they're bring bringing in the uh, very special guest Nick Saban as well and adding in a car wash in Louisville. Then it'll be off to Kalamazoo, Michigan with the Zeigler auto group plus a car wash there. Back to viva Las Vegas for the continuation of Office Hours, the TV show season number 11. Can't believe we made it there. Of course adding on a car wash once again. And then we'll be back in Newport beach for another mastermind plus car wash with Tim Storey, Dr. Stefano Senecropi and many, many others. So if you guys did not get the jingle at the beginning of the show, here is the reminder to be repetitive and annoying to make sure that if you want these Invitations, but not obligations. You get the reminders by simply texting us at area code 949. Next three digits are 29 8. Last four digits 2905 for over 200 invitations but not obligations a year. And now of course I am very excited to dive into today, uh, today's edition of office hours made from mistakes, episode 890 or so. David, would you like to take the take, uh, the round or take the lead back and um, introduce our first guest?

Speaker A: Yeah, we have incredible Sujay Saha here. He's president@corticox. Cortico-x.com welcome Sujay to office hours.

Speaker C: Thank you so much David for having me. Appreciate it.

Speaker A: Well, you know, I do a lot of executive coaching and one of the big challenges is stepping away. Security, stability, the golden handcuffs. And in the consultative services business, uh, it's really difficult to take on the impetus of uh, being a solopreneur, consultant, a strategist, uh, even though you're far more experienced, uh, in what you do than the average, uh, conservative student of, for example the big four. You've created a business around helping people, uh, step away from the security, stability and golden handcuffs. Uh, these you, uh, call personal sacrifices. I call them investments that need to be made. What's the biggest fear that people have, uh, when founders face walking away from stable careers and prestigious roles?

Speaker C: I think staying getting too comfortable with the reality and uh, and, and just continuing to kind of enjoy um, what you have got at hand. Uh, what they call like the famous, um, one in hand is. But one bird in hand is better than two in the bush. Um, I feel, I feel the opposite. I feel like if there is something that you really want to get and there is a sense of purpose that you have discovered in your life, you, you are actually a lucky guy or gal. And uh, that's an opportunity. So leave that one bird, um, hanging in there and go after the two in the bush, you know. So that's a little bit of what I ended up doing. I don't know if I actually got the two birds in the bush, but uh, headed in that direction.

Speaker A: Can I interrupt just one second? Nick, I know you're talking a bit ask that you always have. Um, on several occasions I've walked away from some of the most prestigious positions and high paying positions, um, and people would admire my courage, uh, my entrepreneurial spirit. But the truth is I always had a fallback. When I graduated law school, top of my class as an oil and gas litigator, I turned down A very high paying job in 1992 to sell legal research online and the Internet when people thought that was bad. But the truth was if I uh, if I failed, I took the bar. I could always go back and be a lawyer. When I left that seven figure job to go up to the Silicon Valley and raise hundreds of millions of dollars, the truth is I can always go back being a high, you know, high paid executive vice president somewhere of sales. Left that. And then when I left that to go work for Lee Steinberg, then when I left that. There's always a fallback. Why do you think people take solace and security in the fact that I have capability, skill, knowledge and desires that are marketable and if I mess this up, um, I can always fall back.

Speaker C: Yeah, um, um, um. It's interesting how perspectives shift, uh, when you have a lot at your hand, uh, and then you're potentially walking away from that versus um, when you don't necessarily um, have a ton and you're going after the green fields. Uh, um. I think the reality is that uh, you uh, are able to um, even when you have, have a ton on your hand, like you're still um. The purpose with which you are going after kind uh, of like helps you in driving in that direction. I don't know if I answered your question, David, if you want to clarify the question in a different way.

Speaker A: I was wondering why people don't seek more security and fall having a big fallback. I mean people in these prestigious roles, even though they're walking away from a stable position, they have a fallback. It's not like they're going to lose everything, you know, And I think I've always appreciated my fallback position when I took these huge risks. And fortunately I never had to take the fallback, uh, except for when I lost everything. Then you know, I went right into fallback. So I was just curious. It seems like a lot of these people don't see the fallback, uh, and they just see the sacrifice.

Speaker C: That's, that's very true. And a lot of times what even I would even take it one notch further. Like it's not even the sacrifice. I feel like the very, that like say I was a partner in the previous firm and I left, I left that partnership and come in and build this business. The reality is that a lot of times people just think that oh, I'm losing those three years or four years of like trying this new business out and then what if I just go back into another big four and become a partner. I'VE lost like those four years. The reality is you have not lost those four years. You have actually hustled for those four years. And the amount of energy and amount of um, relationships and the experience that you end up creating, you're probably actually um, leapfrogged some of what you would have actually gotten in the previous one. So I think it's just an alternate way of looking at. Looking at things. I uh, don't even consider these to be very risky moves. Candidly speaking much along the lines of what you are saying too.

Speaker A: I agree. All right, Nick, bring us home.

Speaker B: Yes, sir. Sujay, great to meet you my friend. Uh, one thing I want to talk about with you is experience strategy. Uh, because one of the things that I've learned is that especially in larger firms, uh, experience strategy lived in separate silos. You know, marketing owns one piece, product owns another, customer success another, and so on and so forth. But you know, what had made you recognize that this fragmented approach was limiting growth with a lot of companies? And what do you, you know, now believe organizations unlock when experience strategy becomes fully integrated across the business versus siloed?

Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. Um, I mean if you take it, um, actually on just like about a decade back, like we didn't even have um, chief experience officers, chief customer officers in organizations that would actually be responsible. In fact, yesterday itself, I was uh, um, talking to uh, one of my friends over the weekend and uh, she was explaining how they have so many people running in different functional areas and they still don't have that kind of a role. A chief experience, chief customer officer lack of which what ends up happening is like everybody with their whole heart in the right place, in my opinion, ah, tried to optimize for what they can do and what their functional area is supposed to do. So like what you said correctly. So like marketing is trying to optimize for the acquisition experience. Like the um, um, product is trying to um, enhance the product experience. But there is nobody who is actually taking a step back and thinking about like, hey, this, buying this product, servicing this product from this particular client or particular organization is just one of the steps that I actually take in my life. Uh, and really to bring all of this together, it needs like a holistic approach of looking at things. And that is just missing. And I feel like uh, in today's organization, because of the awareness, uh, organizations have started to go in that direction of thinking about how to bring that together and uh, really stitching the journeys from end to end and it's not necessarily a linear journey and it's connected and pretty convoluted. And that's where, that's where the realization of real value happens.

Speaker A: If you need assistant and advocate for self, for self promotion, protection and perfection within the guise of your divine direction in your career, let someone help you take inventory of your skills, knowledge, your desire. Let somebody help you align it with what's doing well, what's stable, what you think is doing well. Stop holding yourself back by limiting your path, by limiting your self image. You will never overachieve your own self image even if it is a high level, prestigious role that you're leaving. It's okay to walk away from stability and in especially our careers. But we do need help. The mindset, the hearts and the handset that it takes to get to the next level. Even when you think reached level that you never thought you would attain. It's people like Sujay Saha who can help us bring the best out of ourselves. Go to cortico-x. Com. Uh, Sujay, thanks for bringing so much to the table and helping so many great executives get to the next level. We look forward to doing more with you. Thanks for joining us on this.

Speaker C: Perfect. Thank you so much. Appreciate you all.

Speaker A: Uh, take care, you got keep up the good work. Thank you all. Uh, right, Walmer, we're right on schedule here. Christopher Stick is waiting here, Chief executive officer at Crisis Lead and his book came out in October. We're blessed to talk about Scaling Pyramids leadership series. Uh, welcome Christopher to office hours episode 890 or so.

Speaker D: Outstanding. Thank you. David, Nick, great to see you guys again. Um, had the pleasure and honor of meeting you guys in Las Vegas as you were filming season nine of uh, office Hours for Apple tv. So great to be with you in this forum as well. Um, really appreciate the opportunity to come in and talk about my journey, my book. It's great that we're actually on Made from Mistakes today, uh, because my book is a lot about my journey and my path through one of the most complex organizations on the planet, the US federal government. Um, I spent almost 30 years as a special agent and a diplomat, uh, as part of the Diplomatic Security Service, working around the world. And in the course of that I learned a lot of lessons about leadership and wanted to make sure that I could pass those lessons on to others. Um, David, as you say, you know, I've already paid the dummy tax. Let's see if we can get others, um, you know, to uh, profit from my paying of that tax. So Scaling Pyramids leadership lessons from A mid level bureaucrat. Um, it really is about understanding how to navigate those complex organizations. How to lead with influence and not a title. Um, one of the mistakes that I see so many people out there making is they think, okay, if I just get the next promotion, then I can be a leader, then I can make change, then I can have influence. Right, but the truth is you can scale, influence, expand capacity and lead at every level even without that. You know, I take myself as an example. I actually managed to drive massive change for the entire Department of State from very low levels in my position because I came up with a vision, I was able to sell that vision to the right stakeholders. They were able to help me navigate that up and, you know, make it a reality. And it's things like that, that if people understand how to do it, then they can do it too. So it really started. Sorry, please go ahead.

Speaker A: Yeah, I was gonna say this is a perfect show because you're looking at, uh, a leader to my. Whatever way it is on your screen. He's to my right on my screen. But his name's Nick Lazer. Um, and I don't know how inherently whether he's a wise soul or had another mentor. But, uh, from when he was an intern to his entry level position, you know, over six years, you know, now beats the C suite, uh, in a multi million dollar business at the age of 25. Because he understood, uh, this idea of empowering stakeholders, uh, with humility. So what he realized was if I can make my boss look good, he's uh, going to allow me to have influence and give me more and more opportunity. And my turn will come when, uh, there'll be an opening and I'll be first, uh, for that opening as well, uh, to continue to accelerate my career. Um, you speak in the realm of risk, crisis and leadership development. Um, these are opportunities, you know, to take risks, to handle crises, uh, and of course develop as a leader for someone that's at an entry level position. Uh, where is that fine line between empowering my boss and stepping on his toes?

Speaker D: So, I mean, that's, it's a really critical question because sometimes you will have a vision that your boss does not share. Right. And you want to make sure that you're trying to find ways to work with your boss to do so, um, and help convince them and use the influence you have with your boss to, uh, actually get your vision to be part of their vision. Right. Sometimes you might just have to wait. Right. It's possible that when your boss has their own Vision, and it's a very strong vision. And they aren't willing to. To, uh, make a change, well, then what you can do is grow your influence with that boss by making sure that you're contributing everything you can to help their vision become successful. So I think that's a good part of it. And then another thing I want to throw back real quick to something Sujay was talking about, um, a minute ago in his segment, which is I talk a lot about bridging silos, um, and you guys talked about, you know, the silo, the organizational silos. One of the things I talk about is, you know, tearing them down doesn't work. They're there for a reason, but you need to bridge them, and you need to bridge them at a lot of levels. So if you can work to bridge across the different silos and show your boss that how you're helping them achieve their mission, not just within your own silo, but in the broader organization. So you could go far.

Speaker E: At Venture Global, we think about what

Speaker B: can be done, not what's usually done through innovation.

Speaker E: Venture Global is not only building some of the largest energy facilities in the

Speaker A: world right here in the United States,

Speaker E: but delivering American energy at a fraction of the cost in a fraction of the time. So while others are busy talking, we're busy building. That's Venture Global. That's unstoppable energy.

Speaker A: That's right before burn them down, which we'll get to when we get to our next guest. But, uh, bring us home, Nick of mom with the Dudley do right smile.

Speaker B: Christopher, it's great to see you, and thanks for being here. Uh, one of the things that we've touched on and talked about a little bit, but I want to hammer home and get even more granular is this kind of concept of leading from the bottom or leading from the middle. I think a lot of entry level, um, employees or, you know, first role out of college, et cetera, et cetera, they really struggle with that concept because always since they were kids, it was either, you know, okay, my coach is my leader, which is, you know, something which is much higher up, or, you know, it's been bred into me that, you know, leadership comes from the top down. So if you can share with us, you know, really what is your definition of, uh, leading from the bottom in the middle and some of the, uh, values that those people carry that empower them to be successful.

Speaker D: Yeah. So leading from the bottom or the middle is very simply influence. How do you get that influence? You get that influence through building Relationships, building trust. And if people can understand that what you're trying to do is also good for them and that you are someone who is worthy of trust and confidence even from the bottom, people will gravitate towards you. And once you can do that and build those relationships and build those connections and again, bridging across those silos into a lot of other different parts of the organization, that's how you can then really, huh, grow your organizational influence as well.

Speaker A: So true. Christopher, if you want to learn how to be a sponsor as a leader within your organization, how to be a power sponsor in the leadership context in your organization to soon become the decision maker, it's Christopherstitt.com the book is called Scaling Pyramids. If you're a mid level employee, Got to get. It's a must read. It's an honest, it's an engaging, research, informed exploration of what it means to leave the bottom in the middle of any organization. Especially in the government where there's complex systems that aren't always built for creativity, innovation, inspiration, agility or even humanity. Christopher, thanks for coming back. We uh, appreciate you. And Chris crisis lead go to ChristopherStitt.com we'll have you back soon. Love to have you back on the TV show for season 11. Give Nick of Woma call.

Speaker D: Outstanding. Thank you guys very much and looking uh, forward to seeing uh, what you got next.

Speaker A: Love it. Thank you for joining. Happy holiday and um, we appreciate your service. All right, it is not the who man. It's the whole man. Ho man. Gazan Ari is here. He's the CEO and founder at Gaz Coaching. That's the B H Ah, A Z guys. Coaching.com. ho man. What's man on this prestigious holiday of first responders and vets of ours. Thanks for joining us.

Speaker E: Oh, it's my pleasure. What's up guys? How are you?

Speaker A: Phenomenal. Anyway, we love the whole man. He's part of the family, the neighborhood, participating in all types of different events that we're doing. Uh, I want to start right with the obvious, man. You got a free gift you're offering our neighborhood. Uh, and it's a 10 minute mental clarity framework gift. Give us a little bit of background on why you decided to give a free book to our community and what impact you hope it has.

Speaker E: Yeah, we all like free things, right?

Speaker A: Um, if it's free, it's me.

Speaker E: Um, it's something that I feel like with everything that's going on in society today, whether it's the uh, internal noise that has become a part of who we are or the external noise that we get from social media and the news and everything else, it creates a lot of mental clutter in our lives and in our minds, more importantly. And so what this framework does is it allows for us to really slow things down and do, uh, an intentional process where we go through and clear out some of the clutter and get to the core of what's really important in our lives and the decisions that

Speaker C: we need to make.

Speaker E: Like what are those hundred bill ball, hundred dollar bill items that we really need to focus on and put those up at the forefront and then understand what we want to do with the rest of it.

Speaker A: Like do we want to be able

Speaker E: to discard it, delegate it and um, really bring clarity to really our decision making process.

Speaker B: Oh man, it is always good to see you my friend. And happy, happy Memorial Day. I want to ask you, in alignment with this, um, with your free gift, the 10 minute mental clarity framework, I want to talk to you about the difference between reaction versus response because I know that through your 25 years of service to the Sacramento Fire Department, and thank you for your service, there were plenty of times where you're uh, experiencing what is fear based consciousness or uh, pun intended, on fire. And so with that said, I want to understand within that framework how do you differentiate the difference between reaction versus response when you have that interference, uh, in your mentality or mindset. Um, but then also, uh, you know, how do you get yourself back to center as quickly as possible?

Speaker E: Yeah, when it comes to response, I think it's something that we prepare for and I'll take it back to my days as a first responder. Um, I couldn't just like if you imagine just showing up at a fire and just trying to figure out what happens next and what to do, um, that's where you're reacting, you're reacting to circumstances or rent from front of you and like what am I going to do? And now have this, elicit, elicits this reaction for me when we have a response, it's something that we've trained ourselves that that's how we're going to show up in that particular situation. Um, and so even like we're going on incidents, responding on incidents, we would show up and have a framework of the things that we wanted to make sure that we accomplished. First and foremost would be to do a primary search and to make sure there's no occupants inside of a building that's, that's involved in fire. And then from there we had other tactical objectives that had to get accomplished. And so that's the m. Mental framework that I bring into the work that I do with clients, is to make sure that we have mentally prepared them for all the different, um, scenarios that could present themselves, whether it's their personal lives or the professional lives. And then even as we, as we look back on that response, because I would do my own sort of, um, check in and exercise around, like, okay, so how did that go? And you know, I really want to get clear on like, okay, what was the, what was the state that I was in when I entered into the, the experience? Um, and then what were some of the things that I came up that I reacted to some of those circumstances, and then how would I want to do them differently? And so when I use that loose framework, then I can understand that, okay, these are the things that went well. These are the things I want to work on. And even understanding, well, what was some of, some of the reasons why things didn't go well, like, did I make that decision too quick? Did I take too much time to make that decision? Um, was I prepared for that decision? More importantly than anything, so being able to utilize that mental framework to understand that, okay, um, things aren't always going to go perfectly. Um, but at the same time, I want to make sure that I'm a student of the game and that I learned from my mistakes and that I better position myself for that next opportunity.

Speaker B: Thank you, my friend.

Speaker A: And understanding our past home in, uh, we all have one. And I was mentioning earlier, meaning that we give our past limits, our future limits, our self image, our imagination. And you have a unique way of dealing with past trauma and healing that trauma. I thought we'd finish up real quickly, um, with your belief in path to healing this trauma so that you could experience, expand your end client's self image. Done, uh, extensive works. And I'm referring, um, to psychedelics. How impactful are psychedelics if well managed and monitored by a profession?

Speaker E: I'm so glad you're asking this question. The utilization of psychedelics. It's referred to as 15 years of therapy in one day. So, and I'm speaking from personal experience, like I've done over 30 years of therapy, um, the extensive history of trauma and things that I've had to overcome and work on over the years. And a lot of it's been through that conversation, through that talk with a therapist. And what you get out of that talk is you get instant relief, right? Like, you know, that shouldn't have happened. And this was, you know, this is someone else's stuff. You don't have to hang on to it anymore. And that would give me relief, but it wouldn't give me that level of understanding and healing that you get through the psychedelic assistant psychotherapy experience. Is that what it does is it creates this neuroplasticity that hasn't existed in your mind since you were in your 20s. And it allows for you to open your mind back up and really understand some of the traumatic things that happen, some of the reasons why they happen, and really give you a chance to. To connect better with your. With yourself, with your inner self. And it really helps you heal that, that relationship. Um, it's. It's deeply impactful work. It's something you really can't articulate well enough in a few minutes. But also, even. Even, um, describing it to someone, it's something you really have to experience. But I will say this, that when you. When you, for example, when you take, uh, the mdma, it shuts off your fear centers, and you're going to be as cool and calm and collected and peaceful as you've ever been in your entire life, and allows for you to really process all the things around you and get to a place where you're more grounded. And the way this plays out with coaching is that, you know, when we talk about mental clutter, like, even the exercise they give you, it's going to help you. It's going to help you to become grounded and to be able to have clarity. But if you want to have true clarity, then we need to just sort of clear out all the. All the noise that's been existing there for years. Because some of that noise comes from the past. And some of that stuff in the past elicits those, uh, uh, desires to want to bring in more noise, you know, because what it does is it helps us to push things down, helps us to suppress the pain that's there from the trauma that we experienced. And so, excuse me, when we're able to draw that pain out and look at it and then just release it and be done with it, then that's where we get that true sense of groundedness and clarity that we can utilize. And so if I identify that someone has, um, is having emotional difficulties and challenges that go beyond the coaching process, then I make that referral to the psychedelic assistant psychotherapist. And then they will help them draw out that pain and release that pain. And then they come back to me, typically, because I know them better than the therapist does. And then we do what we call an integration. So once you've done all this, you can imagine that like now you're going to feel a little bit vulnerable. You're going to feel a little bit raw. That like, wow, I just learned all this new stuff about myself and all these things that happened. Where do we go from here? And so what we do is we start to piece things back together intentionally in a way that helps the person understand that okay, this is where I came from and now this is where I'm headed. And it truly does, and I'm not even kidding, like it truly puts your life in a different trajectory. It's more impactful than anything you're going to hear from anybody else. It's more impactful than you know, anything you're going to read. It truly makes a powerful and I've sent numerous clients to um, do this work. Uh, I've also done it myself, full disclosure over 10 times. And so it truly helps you unpack things and release them in a way that improves your self confidence, your communication, your clarity, your ability to really embrace life and in the world around you.

Speaker A: If you want to identify the dis ease and live at ease, go to a coach who has experienced it himself. After 25 years of service at the Sacramento Fire Department he understands trauma and emergency. Uh, path to self awareness has a free offer for everyone. The 10 minute mental clarity framework is available. Go to gazcoaching.com get goz coach himself g h a z coaching.com promise us ho man that you will come back and visit us soon.

Speaker E: Love it. Such a pleasure guys. Have a great day.

Speaker A: Thanks for your service Coach Goss. All right. All right. Nick of mom, you know what time it is? Takeaway of the day.

Speaker B: Takeaway for episode number 890 or so is lead from where your feet are. It does not matter the perception on leadership coming from the top, the middle or the bottom. Be present with where you're at. Lead from that position by gaining trust with others and allowing value to speak for itself.

Speaker A: I love it. And mine uh, goes from each of the three of our uh, yesterday. Long term success is built through patterns. Patterns of thought, patterns of action and patterns of discipline. All three of coaches, our friends today are helping to identify those patterns of thought, uh, action and discipline. Appreciate our fine feathered friends on this. They show up on Memorial Day. I want to thank everyone for their service. This is the greatest country that has ever been created. The only country I know where you could be destitute on a street by yourself and still have the option opportunity and touch of favor to be the best in the world at, uh, whatever you want to be the best in the world at, to reach your potential. That's what the United States of America affords us. We are blessed to be here on episode 890 or so made from mistakes. Please join soon. As a reminder, we're going to be in Newport beach with Tim Story, Jay Abraham, John Coyle. We're going to be in Japan. These are all with charitable VIP dinners, meetups, holding courts and interviews. Louisville with the Crash champions Nick Saban and I. Rocking and rolling with matty bird. Kalamazoo, Michigan. Then season 11 of Office Hours in the lobby. Win all the car wash. That means interviews, holding courts, meetups, VIP dinners. Back to Newport beach after Vegas, that's how you get to 200 cities a year. We're rocking and rolling with the biggest and the brightest, creating frequency and neighborhood of people that want to help each other and people that help each other. If you want to be informed, if you want to be invited, you can get this number right and hang on and get my jingle, uh, so you can remember it better. It's kind of like cards for kids. Nobody forgets 1-800-cars-for kids. Donate your car today. We're get our jingle as popular as that, but it's not yet area code 949. Next three numbers. 298. Last four numbers. 2, 905. That's 949-298-2, 905. Get your car today.

Speaker C: All right.

Speaker A: We will be back tomorrow. Enjoy your holiday. Remember, most importantly, sing it, Nick B.

Speaker B: More interested than interesting.

Speaker A: And be kind. Be kind to your future self and do good deeds.

Speaker B: Hit it, Gigi.