What’s Neuroscience Got to Do with It? (ft. Rich Kuepper | Founder & President L.E.A.D. U.S.A. | Leader & Team Development Expert)

Speaker A: When there's novelty, all of a sudden you get a big hit of dopamine. You're paying attention in a way that you weren't before, because is this a threat? Is it not a threat? Your brain has to be engaged and evaluate what's going on. And so the neuroscience around novelty is really how we learn something new. Oh, how do I relate this new piece of data to what I already know? And so it, uh, naturally engages.

Speaker B: Welcome. No More Bad Events. A, ah, fun and insightful podcast for professional event organizers and for anyone at any level interested in producing nothing but the best events. Uh, each week we'll talk with legendary event professionals to get an inside look into what they think makes a great event. And in the process, we'll draw out insider secrets, non traditional approaches, and compelling stories from the most captivating personalities in the business. No More Bad Events is produced and presented by Espeakers, the most trusted online platform for the best keynote speakers in the world. And I'm your host, Scott Blum, comedian, event mc, and now your podcast host.

Speaker C: Let's get started.

Speaker B: Hey, folks, thanks for dropping by.

Speaker C: We always appreciate when you do.

Speaker B: As the great rock and roll philosopher Tina Turner once asked, what's neuroscience got to do got to do with it? It's a secondhand emotion.

Speaker C: Okay, maybe I'm paraphrasing a little, but

Speaker B: seriously, what does neuroscience have to do

Speaker C: with creating better events?

Speaker B: Well, my guest today, Rich Cooper, is going to tell you, and once you hear his perspective, you'll realize it has everything to do with it. Rich is the founder and president of Lead USA, a Connecticut based corporate learning and development company. For 28 years, he's been delivering dynamic

Speaker C: programs across North America, Asia and Europe,

Speaker B: working in leadership and team development, optimal performance growth, mindset and well being. He's also a former master trainer for Tony Robbins, which gives you a sense

Speaker C: of where Rich is coming from.

Speaker B: Rich doesn't believe in the old sit

Speaker C: down, tune in and hope for the best model.

Speaker B: Instead, he creates learning experiences rooted in

Speaker C: how people really learn and how they really connect. And what I love about his approach

Speaker B: is how he ties the science of the brain to the real world challenge

Speaker C: of creating better events.

Speaker B: He talks about the importance of creating psychological safety before a meeting even starts, making people feel comfortable enough to connect, laugh and participate. That's a huge lesson for anyone producing events. If people don't feel safe and engaged early, the rest of the event has

Speaker C: a much tougher road ahead.

Speaker B: We dig into how event designers can keep energy up throughout the day and not Just with content, but with movement, storytelling, humor, novelty and smart room design.

Speaker C: Rich has a great way of thinking

Speaker B: about events like a ride, anticipation, movement,

Speaker C: surprise, pauses, and a strong finish.

Speaker B: That's the difference between a meeting people endure and an experience they actually enjoy. Rich also shares some incredible examples of experiential learning, like sending teams into the streets of New York City or Philadelphia with no money, no credit cards, no phones. It's the kind of experience that builds resilience and forces people to actually connect with each other. No PowerPoint could ever do that. Whether you're producing meetings, leading teams, or just trying to make sure people don't mentally check out before lunch, this conversation is packed with practical ideas. Rich brings a perspective that's equal parts science, stagecraft and, and real world experiences. So here's my conversation with the remarkably

Speaker C: innovative and genuinely thought provoking Rich Cooper. We spoke once before. I have kind of an understanding, just, you know, more from LinkedIn what it is that you do. Tell us exactly what it is that Lead USA does and what you do.

Speaker A: Yeah, so 28 years ago, I founded Lead USA and it's an acronym that stands for Leadership Empowerment Achievement Dynamics. To try to bring a, uh, dynamic format to leadership training versus, you know, being pounded to death by PowerPoint and to add activity into the learning, which is all based in neuroscience. It's how we learn best as human beings and we learn best collectively as well. So that's been the journey. So I'm really a corporate trainer while I craft unique experiences to bring out a particular learning. If it's resilience, it's really hard to teach resilience in a classical classroom setting. So what can I do? So I challenge them. I, uh, put them on the streets of New York City or Philadelphia without any cash, credit cards or cell phones. And they have to achieve a whole list of things and they have to do it through the force of their personality, through their ability to build a rapport. They get a lot of rejection on the streets of those cities.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker A: And that's how you learn resilience. Right, is to keep persevering through all of that. And then the most important part is the debrief after the action is to review that. So maybe a little slightly differently than a, uh, keynote is I'm really hired to change behavior of the leaders or teams. And the only way that I have found, and I think science proves the way to shift behavior is through a challenging experience that has you reevaluate your perspective and your approach to things and your belief Systems. And mindset, etc.

Speaker C: It, uh, reminds me kind of the Apprentice when I hear the idea of being sent out. Is there any of that kind of background to where you kind of created this? I mean, I'm sure they use some model to create, you know, these tasks in the Apprentice.

Speaker A: It depends on the client's needs. I always begin, like kind of with the end in mind, do a lot of upfront, and I'm sure you do the same. Understanding the audience, understanding what the outcomes are for this, why are they bringing a person like me in, what are the outcomes? And then I build it backwards. So it could be something that's short as an hour or three hours within space, or if I have more time, the course of a day or two days, then I could design a more elaborate experience to bring out. That particular experience was a three day experience when we put them on the streets of New York and first we got to prep them, then we got to put them on the streets of New York, and then we spend a half a day debriefing and unpacking all the lessons learned. And that is really where the gold is. It's in that after action review where they really understand, wow, that team accomplished this. And we thought it was impossible. How, how did they achieve it so easily, apparently? And we made it such a barrier in our own minds to achieve that.

Speaker C: It's fascinating, uh, really, because, I mean, a lot of training gets done, you know, that half day workshop, full day workshop, which I'm sure you do inside an environment, but to actually to take them outside, that's a pretty big commitment for a company to do. Right. You're taking your people out of the field or out of their workspace. But it kind of leads into what we're going to be talking about, which is how to make events, how to make conferences more transformational as opposed to informational. You want to change behavior, you want them to take action. I want to stay on this for a little bit longer and then you'll tell me how this experience has informed you on how you think events could be done better. Now you're training. I know you had some training with, uh, Tony Robbins. Is that what led you into what you're doing now?

Speaker A: Certainly it was transformational for me, that exposure. So my background is, believe it or not, in electrical engineering, which is kind of.

Speaker C: Yes, I think I remember that right.

Speaker A: But I made the transition from that into sales, and I didn't like sales people, particularly when I was in engineering. But I thought that the upper end of my Ability to earn could be improved if I developed that skill set. And I was terrible at it. In full transparency initially, it was such a different mindset that I had to change. So I started to listen to some motivational audio cassettes at the time as I was driving around from client to client trying to prospect. And then I came across Tony's work, and that really kind of resonated with me. I mean, there are a lot of greats out there, but he was one that was kind of a peer. He's not that much older than me, and he was exactly actually my same age, but he seemed to have such depth of knowledge and wisdom. My dad had passed, and I didn't have, let's say, a mentorship around me, but he became that through his audio tapes. Then I went to his workshops, and then I wound up all through the 90s working with him, opening up new markets around the globe, literally travel the globe with him helping deliver that. I became a master trainer and all of his stuff. I mean, he's one of the more gifted speakers, world renowned, but it's really all based in neuroscience. And what I learned is the power of the experience to really shift behavior. That's what he's mastered. And so I took a lot of that learning, blended it with what I already know and other authors and work that I had, and created my own corporate development program to energize learning in corporate America. And so that people actually look forward to going to a, uh, learning and development event versus, uh, it's kind of remedial. I got to go and tick this box and get that done. So that's been the path. It's 28 years now. It's proven to be very successful. My clients are repeat clients. And I, uh, think that says it all as far as the appetite for it.

Speaker C: Do you feel like you're embedded with some of these companies, that they're your learning and development trainer for that company and you're helping that company grow their people do better?

Speaker A: Yeah. Had I known 28 years ago that I should buy stock in all the companies that I. Yes, I would probably far better off right now.

Speaker C: Oh, my God. Yeah.

Speaker A: So it depends on the relationship. Obviously, the best ones for me as a small business owner is I'm baked into their learning and development. They may have a week curriculum. Monday through Friday, they bring their people in from all over the field, and I might kick it off with something high energy and bonding for people. Or I might be the capstone on, uh, that Friday morning to bring in all the lessons together in some integrating experience and leave it with energy. Or maybe break up the week on a Wednesday with something like a board break or where they break a board with their bare hand. To show your ability to break through your own limitations in your own thinking and sense of possibility. And those are high energy. You know, you're playing the theme of rocky and you're getting everybody energized. And so if you take a week of, um, more traditional learning and you break it up with some experiences that enliven the learning, bring it, let them play with the skills that they've been learning about, that's ideal for them. It integrates the experience. And then for me, obviously if I'm baked into that, they run that program 3, 8, 12 times a year, then I have that repeat business. So it's a win win.

Speaker C: So you must be building relationships with the people that you're working with. Uh, oh, Rich is back again. You know, what does Rich have for us this time around? Is that kind of the relationship you have with people you work with or are you always working with new people?

Speaker A: It's very similar. It's a blend of both. It seems that my clients all become personal friends of mine as well. We all love the joy I think it is of helping people raise their game, bring more of their potential forward. So if you're in that learning development, talent development field, you have that desire to help people rise up and we're all in that game together. And then I can bring from the outside with my skillset things that they can't create internally or they would have a very difficult point being able to deliver it personally. And there's also messages that I could bring, point out some behaviors that are holding the organization back from the outside. I could speak to it in a way, internal trainers, it would be more difficult for them to do.

Speaker C: Let's say you could be a little more critical and maybe they don't take it as personal. Or the people who are being critical don't have to worry about their jobs, you know, because if there are issues, obviously maybe they haven't been doing things right. So have you ever worked with event, uh, design teams? I mean, what do you think? Some events are failing even before people walk in the room. What are they missing?

Speaker A: I think the number one thing, and I start all of my programs off before any content gets delivered. It's about human connection. I think if you're designing an event, you have to find ways to get people to interact casually, non threatening in a way that seems very Natural. Even though there might be, um, method to the madness that's not apparent to the participants. But to get people to feel comfortable with each other, comfortable in the environment, because we've all been there, right. You don't know anybody. You walk into this event space, you know, you're supposed to network and meet people and network. But for some people it is, but for a lot of people it's not. And so they go into that fight or flight mode, which really limits your. It's not safe. And if it's not safe, then it's really hard for you to interact with another human being naturally. There's all a little of that facade going on. And so the more you can do up front to allow people to connect in a natural way in their environment, their threat levels go down, that fight or flight response gets subdued, and then dopamine, oxytocin gets released. And people are now much more open to, to meeting other people and also receiving the information that they'll be presented with. And that, I think, is the foundational step. That's what I've learned in my business, that sets the session up for success. And I think some people, when they design a program, they don't put that piece in place. The human aspect of let's make everybody feel safe and comfortable before we dive into any of the presentations and things.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: I mean, imagine you go into a

Speaker B: place, you feel unfamiliar.

Speaker C: You might not even categorize it as I don't feel safe. But you're in your head. It's very even hard to even process stuff because you're just worried about, I don't feel comfortable. I don't know anyone. That seems to almost be a given. I mean, that's why I always advocate you, uh, know, besides keynoting, I also emcee, and I'm m in an emcee mastermind group. And that's why an emcee is so important at these conferences. And, uh, I'm not here to sell that format or that idea, but that accomplishes that. We're there to welcome them, get them engaged with everything going on stage, but also engaged with each other. So what are some ways to create this sort of psychological safety or ways to get people to just breathe and feel safe and feel like they want to be there?

Speaker A: I think from what I know of your work, I mean, you're a master of that humor, if done well and tastefully and appropriately, is the quickest way to get people to relax. When you get people to laugh and chuckle and they look around Visually and see other smiles on other faces. There's mirror neurons in our brains that to understand how that other person is feeling, we kind of mimic that same expression so we understand whether. So we see faces smiling, which enhances our own smile. And they see our smile, and it becomes like a contagion. That's why they say someone walks into the room, can light up a room. Right? Uh, because how they present themselves, the energy. If they have a smile on their face, those other 100 people in the room will have a slight smile on. On their face, trying to understand the psychology of that person. This goes way back to our tribal days to understand friend or foe. And you can also have someone, and we all know them walk into a room, and it's like they shut off the lights, right? They have that. You could feel the energy of the coming off that person. And that also is, like. Can be a contagion and spread through the room. So I think, particularly in that emcee role with humor, you have to really love people and let that flow through you. People will feel that, and then you create that positive contagion in the room. With humor, people are laughing, and then they can relax. And so, as you know, humor can be done well or it can really land flat, and that can then work against you. So if you have the skill set to use humor, use it appropriately. If it's not really in your wheelhouse, then just show up with a big, warm smile and engage people that way.

Speaker C: Besides, let's say, having a professional mc, how can event designers and facilitators flip the switch to reengage the brain? You know, maybe it's later in the morning. You already had that initial engagement. What should event designers be thinking of throughout their whole program?

Speaker A: When I think through, what do I want these people to experience? Right. I think of it as. Not everybody's a roller coaster fan, right? But most people like to go. The big thing at the amusement park is the Thunderball or Thunderbolt or whatever, the roller coaster. And why is it? Because you have that anticipation to tick, tick, tick up. Then you have this plunge, and then you go around a curve, and then there's this little of a slow spot. Then you maybe spiral, and then you come in for the finish. And so that's how I think about it. How can I take these people on a journey, on a ride, even if they're maybe sitting stationary in a seat? But how can I move them emotionally and sometimes often physically through an experience? And so there'll be, uh, components of it where I'll storytell, I will mentally take them on a journey and then I'll get them up. I'll ask everybody to stand up and move around the room. And a lot of times it's at round tables. And so I want them to get up and be able to move around the room. So I think part of it is how you set up the room design wise so that there could be physical mobility in a room so that people can get up and move. So you literally change your blood flow, you change your biochemistry from sitting passively, as we have since kindergarten, taking information in, but then get people up and move around the room. I create little activities where they have to interact with other people, introduce themselves, have something move around the room, high five each other so that they physically move their body, which oxygenates the body, changes the blood flow dynamic. And then I'll sit them down and maybe it'll be another story or then a learning piece. I'll teach them a, uh, framework of something they need to know about leadership. And then I'll get them physically back up again and having them practice that or rehearse that or role play that with each other so they feel at the end of it, the time went like this. It's not boring at all. They haven't been passive and they felt like they've done so much in a three hour time because it's been so varied. And I think that's what you have to think about when you design an event is does a physical space accommodate people to mix and mingle and move around, or is it very restrictive, tight rows. And sometimes because of the size of the space, the amount of participants, you have those physical constraints. But think about it, where people can get up and move around. Let's say you have a PowerPoint slide about last year's performance over this year's performance. Well, then how about half of this table goes over here and discusses that with the other half and then have the tables report out, uh, just so there's movement, physical movement in the room. You move people physically, you move people emotionally.

Speaker C: You have this expression about the body is always in the room. Is that what you're kind of referring to about the body always in the room or it from a neurological standpoint?

Speaker A: Well, I think how you show up physically as the presenter, the person in front of the room. So whenever I'm announced, then I don't have a big formal bio, I like to keep it very conversational and short. Obviously it's important, I think for them, for credibility sake, to Drop some of the iconic names that I've worked with, client names. But when they announce me, I run up to the stage and I don't say, hi, I'm Rich Cooper. I was just announced right from the start. I mix up that presentation before I say, well, this is what we're going to do, and these are the points we're going to cover. I throw all that out the window and I start off with engagement. Right away, I just ask them a question and ask them to answer with a raise of the hand, and it's something that they're all going to pretty much say yes to whatever that question is. I craft for that audience, and immediately I'm getting like a call and response, uh, relationship set up from the very first moments I opened my mouth. But then, of course, as you know, as a someone who's a performer, let's say on stage, you can't just be passive there. Our physical presence on the stage, particularly if you're talking in the numbers that you do at 1500, 2000 or more people, you need to take up space. You have to use your physiology as part of the message. That's my style. Some people can deliver that so compelling with just their language skills, they could stand there passively and deliver a message. I've been m very much moved by people who can do that. Also, the participants bodies are always in the room, and if they're sitting passive for the entire time, they are slowly, slowly quieting their heart rate, shallowing their breathing, reducing the oxygen flow of the body. And so I personally believe that I get them up and moving around as much as I can. So their body is engaged in the learning as well as their mind.

Speaker C: Yeah, I've seen some speakers because whatever their cadence is or, you know, it might be a little monotone, it lulls people into sleep. You start getting very relaxed. Something I've done differently. And it's now keying in why it's working now. Because of our conversation, I just started going on to a handheld. I used to always just use a lavalier mic or, you know, an E6 headset. But just having a handheld also breaks up what they sort of expect from a speaker. I get introduced as a comedian and TV guy and keynote, but I started realizing the handheld does a couple of things. It sort of sets me apart. I'm not a traditional speaker. And also it allows me to have a little bit more power and volume with my voice. And it also brings me a little bit back to my standup days. And it's giving Me, a new vitality on stage. I started talking about, about this earlier. You're there not to just present information. You're there to transform people, get people take action, change their behavior. Is there anything that you can advise on, on how to make the experience a little more transformational?

Speaker A: I'll just go take one step back. And what you're talking about in using a microphone or using a headset. Voice qualities. And you mentioned sometimes someone who's monotone will put people to sleep. Having developing the skill to vary your voice qualities. Right. The pace of it. There are times when I'm telling a story and I want to settle the room down and I want the point to land right. I will slow down and maybe then throw a pause in and a bit of a pregnant pause. And people with what's coming next, because all of a sudden, if they've been tuning out and all of a sudden there's silence in the room, they'll. They'll look back and go, what's going on there? And so using those speaking skills and, um, you'd learn that through being an NSA member is critical, I think for any speaker who wants to have the group engaged. The other thing that I always build into a workshop that I found really effective, right. And these are, like I said, leadership or team development kind of trainings is surprise. There has to be an element of surprise, something novel, because novelty. Because we've all been to this room, we've been to these sessions before, and our brain kind of goes on autopilot. And when there's novelty, all of a sudden you get a big hit of dopamine. You're paying attention in a way that you weren't before, because is this a threat? Is it not a threat? Your brain has to be engaged and evaluate what's going on. And so the neuroscience around novelty is really how we learn something new. Oh, how do I relate this new piece of data to what I've already know? And so it naturally engages. So I always have a surprise. Something. Something hidden under a black cloth that reveal. And I, uh, maybe I'll give them a theory. I go, you want to test the theory? Because everybody's got a framework or a theory and you're going to walk away with it. No, no, you're going to put it to use right here, right now. And I pull something back. They don't know they're going to go to New York City with no cash, no credit cards, no cell phones. I say, you're going to go into New York City. You're going to be in teams of six. And right before they get on the bus, I take their cash, their credit cards, their cell phones, right? And they freak out, right? Because sure, people will fight me for it, right? But just go with it for the day, right? I always frame everything I do about being willing to get outside of your comfort zone. If in a world of exponential change, the most dangerous place to stay is within your comfort zone. And so I have a framework. Let's get outside of our comfort zone. So let's stretch ourselves, let's have some fun. Let's play full out, let's play safe. So I have a framework there so that getting outside the comfort zone. So it's outside your comfort zone to give up your cash. And then they get six snack bars, six dollars and six water bottles. Have a great day in the backpack, right? So now their brain is like freaking out. So wherever you can throw in novelty surprise. It's, you know, even in humor, when you know you zig and then the actual resolution is a zag and people are like, that's a lot of what sparks humor and things. It's not what you anticipated that shows up. So I don't think there's enough of pre planned in events. I know it works for me. M in a development situation, it really helps people shift their perspective of things. And I'm sure you can do that in bigger events for an organizers putting together.

Speaker C: What I'm getting from this conversation is I think there needs to be, uh, a little bit more intentionality when designing an event. There's some great event designers out there and some great conferences. And I love it when I see something that I haven't seen before that's just different. It gets, I think everyone excited. So I think that's great. But we're at the point here now where I want to find a little bit more about you. Rich, what's your go to move? When you walk into a room and the energy is completely dead, I know you come running, uh, on the stage. But if you're in the back of the room or you're backstage and you realize, oh, I'm going out there, and I could just feel it. It is dead as a rock out there. Do you have a go to move to get the get everyone to re engage?

Speaker A: Sure. First I wiped the cold sweat off the back of my neck, realize I might have a hill to climb here. Early on in my career, it was the most terrifying thing. I've done it enough now that my certainty level getting on stage now my Sense of confidence that wherever these souls are, I am going to take them here to another place that is going to be far more elevated than where they are right now. That has grown just through experience and having difficult moments and tough crowds and things like that. So there'll always be one or two in the crowd who you could see isn't like really buying into it. But that's, I think at that point, more on them. I use this metaphor, the usefulness of a cup. And I, and I say this often in the start of a program. The usefulness of a cup is in its emptiness. This is Chinese proverb, because if the cup is full, there's no more room for input, right? And I said, when I get to work with the very best people, I realize that they always have room in their cup. They're not sitting there with their arms crossed like I know it all. What's this guy got to teach me? They always, as good as they are, as the best in the room. They're always curious to what can make their game even better. So when I frame it like that, people will tend to give me a little room in their cup. And I also think you have to kind of meet people where they are and then, you know, it's a basic skill of rapport. You want to meet people kind of where they are and then ramp them up. If I come in way over the top for a group of, I, uh, don't, uh, know, let's say classical thing would be a group of engineers that might be a little bit more introverted, less expressive. Then if I come in over the top, then I'm going to alienate them right from the start, right? Because my style and their style are completely different clashes, right? But I've been in that role. I have a degree in engineering, so I would come in a little bit softer, but it goes back to, you know, know your audience if you feel the energy and then kind of get there, build some rapport. That whole thing about connection is between each other, but also between them and me as the person leading that session. And when they have a sense of comfort with me and I play it pretty grounded game, you know, I try to meet people where they are and then show value through some stories, some activities that I do. People will loosen up. And then by the end of it, you know, they're. The place is on fire. They can't believe the transformation from where they started to where the session ended. Being willing to take them on a journey that is just, um, right at the edge of what's m most comfortable for them, bringing them back to where it's safe and then a little bit higher next time and a little bit. So that's been my approach.

Speaker C: It's funny because as a comedian, sometimes people lock in on that person who's not laughing. That's their deal. That has nothing to do with you. Also, I'm sure some of your NLP training with Tony is about matching energy. You can't come in like, hey, I'm a party clown. And everyone's like, you are a clown. We are not matching. You're not reading the room. And we know this, whether we know it in our head as the phrase you're not reading the room, but we know there's definitely a disconnect here. So I think that's important. But, yeah, no, I love everything you're saying there. And a lot of times you do have to let the audience grow in their own time and you can't force them to move anything. But I like the idea of this cup empty and you fill it up a little bit. And now they're, they're feeling a little more comfortable because you keep on feeling, pushing the boundaries of their comfort level. And they might not have ever experienced anything outside of that part of that comfort level. So, yeah, sometimes I have to definitely move incrementally. You seem like a high energy guy. Did you grow up in the Northeast? I'm getting some very Northeast vibes. New York, where'd you go?

Speaker A: I live in. I grew up in Connecticut. I live here along the shoreline. And so maybe it has a bit of that New York energy. I'm first generation American, so my parents, you know, were risk takers, traveled across the ocean to build a new life here. Limited means in the beginning of, uh, my childhood at least. But it's for me to be situated here for my kind of work. Between Boston, that's about three hours north of me, and Philadelphia, three hours south of me. I thought by starting a business in this area there was, uh, a plenty of work. And certainly it is rich as far as corporate headquarters and training centers and facilities. The work has now taken me across the, uh, continent here and across the world, in fact. And so it was a great place to get started. Very fortunate to be born and raised here. And so maybe that's where the energy comes from. I think it's always, you know, here's. People think, oh, you seem so natural to you, but my core is like really that electrical engineer. But I really love people so much. I want to have an impact I want them to achieve their dreams. For me to be able to do that, I had to get way outside my comfort zone to do what I do. My first opportunities to speak in front of people, I was dry heaving in the men's room. I asked people to get outside of their comfort zone. I have lived it to the point of being physically uncomfortable, like to the point of being ill. To stand in front of a room to do that. Luckily, that's not. It's not to that degree anymore, but I still am. Um, like, I don't take any speaking opportunity for granted. I don't mail it in. That nervous energy is like, my God, these people are counting on me to deliver that nervous energy. Maybe that comes across and keeps me sharp. I don't ever want to lose that. I think it's an asset versus a liability that I'm still a little bit anxious before I get on stage.

Speaker C: Yeah, I'm so glad you made that shift 28 years ago because, you know, you might have been, uh, steered for whatever reason. Maybe your family or just the way your brain worked initially analytical. My son is in college now for mechanical engineering. Big car guy. His grandfather, father built bridges, you know, engineering, and my ex wife was building stuff all the time. So he's a builder. But he also has my side of the personality, which is very outgoing. He's great with people and stuff like that. So even though he's really good in engineering, I have a feeling even though he wants to be a stuntman now, he's going to a stunt academy next month. That's a whole nother story. But it seems like beyond that analytical mind you had, you also had a desire to help people, to change people, and I think he definitely found your own path. I think our conversation has reinforced a lot of things that I've been thinking about lately and definitely, hopefully gave some great information to the people who are listening. So thank you, Rich, for being on the podcast.

Speaker A: Uh, I've totally enjoyed our time. I follow your work and I always enjoy your posts. And one of these days I'm going to be in the audience and cheering you directly. I look forward to that.

Speaker C: I'd love that. I'd love that. All right, thanks a lot, Rich.

Speaker B: That's it for now. Thanks once again to Espeakers, the number one way to find your next perfect speaker. With the deepest catalog of professionals available, you can be assured that the speaker you book will be the absolute best speaker based on your goals, bar none. I've been your host, Scott Bloom, professional MC and comedic keynote speaker and of course, your connoisseur of connections. Oh, by the way. And if you're interested, you can book me for your next event on espeakers marketplace@espeakers.com marketplace. And if you like what you heard, subscribe on Apple, Spotify or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. If you love what you heard, drop us a review.

Speaker C: And don't forget to share with your friends.

Speaker B: Thanks so much for listening. Now go out and make your event a great one.