Best of the Back Catalogue | Rakuten Rewards - Affiliate Marketing, Cashback & Global Partnerships (#776)

Speaker A: What happens to loyalty when the customer never visits your loyalty program? Today, customers are using AI to discover brands, evaluate options, and make purchase decisions, changing the traditional path to engagement. Fayden is leading the discussion on what this shift means for loyalty leaders, where brands risk becoming invisible, and how organizations can prepare for a future where AI sits between the customer and the brand. Reserve your spot@loyaltyinsiders.com that's loyaltyinsiders.com.

Speaker B: Welcome to let's Talk Loyalty, an industry podcast for loyalty marketing professionals. I'm your host, Paula Thomas, and if you work in loyalty marketing, join me every week to learn the latest ideas from loyalty specialists around the world. So welcome to episode 36 of let's Talk Loyalty. And in today's episode, I'm super excited to be interviewing the president of Rakuten Rewards for the USA and Canada, which is literally one of the world's largest cashback programs and incredibly popular in so many markets around the world. So, um, if any of you haven't heard of Rakuten Rewards, I will first of all explain that its parent company, Rakuten, is affectionately known as the Amazon of Japan. So without further ado, I'd like to welcome Kristen Gall, president of Rakuten Rewards, to let's talk loyalty.

Speaker C: Hello, Paula. So nice to talk to you today.

Speaker B: How are you doing?

Speaker C: I'm doing well. I'm in a very unprecedented time. I think.

Speaker B: I think we are. We're definitely going to talk about all of that, Kristin. So, uh, first and foremost, um, let's talk loyalty, as you know, is all about educating loyalty managers around the world. Um, so we have listeners in lots of different markets and we always like to start the show literally talking about our favorite loyalty statistics so we can get straight into adding value for the listeners. So tell me, first and foremost, what is your favorite loyalty statistic?

Speaker C: My favorite loyalty statistic is that rakuten has nearly 15 million members, which, as I joined the company, was just a bit of a mind blowing experience for me to think about how many people are actually interacting with this program.

Speaker B: That's incredible. My goodness. And you're in many markets around the world, so I know you're in China, you're obviously in Japan, and you head up the USA and Canada. So it is an incredible program. And I think there's probably a lot of people listening, Kristen, who might not be familiar with the concept, particularly of just affiliate marketing in general. So before we get into anything too specific, would you mind just kind of talking through the whole business model for consumers?

Speaker C: Absolutely. So Rakuten is the leading online shopping program in the US and in Canada for cashback deals and rewards. Um, it's been in business for about 20 years. It's kind of the behemoth in the industry. Um, if you look at affiliate marketing within the U.S. rakuten properties make up about 50% of the market share of affiliate marketing. So it's pretty giant. Um, in terms of scale, uh, the business model is this. It's a very simplistic and very effective and very powerful business model. We have nearly 15 million members. We send those members shopping at nearly 3500 stores, online stores, um, that exist in the US and Canada. Mhm. Those stores pay us a commission for any transactions that our members make. And we share nearly half of that commission is cash back with our members. It drives engagement, traffic and shopping for the stores. Our members win in the form of cash back and our business model effectively collects commission for all of that action. Um, we've paid out in the course of Our lifetime nearly $2 billion of cash back to our members. So the scale is enormous. I really like that. Um, it impacts people's lives. We're giving people money that they spend on shopping, they spend on travel, they spend on things that they want to buy. Um, and that sort of improvement in our shoppers lives, uh, it makes me really happy.

Speaker B: Absolutely. And I often talk about loyalty, Kristen particularly. I think the reason that I've been drawn to it is because there's so joy. So companies that have that kind of mindset that you have to sit down and go, okay, who are we delighting today? It's the real win, win win. So uh, it's a fabulous business to be in.

Speaker C: Absolutely, yes. I like to joke that I give out money for a living and it's

Speaker B: a fantastic job and it's $2 billion as you've said. So my goodness, it's a lot of money. And I want to first of all just go back to the origins of the company. So um, I think I confess to you Kristin, that I only heard about Rakuten Liter year ago myself. And when somebody used that, I suppose, affectionate explanation of the scale of the business in Japan, I literally went and downloaded the book because I know your founder is a very accomplished author. Uh, Marketplace 3.0 by Hiroshi Mikitani, if anybody's interested. Um, and literally, I mean, what a true visionary to set up an e commerce company, a cashback company in 1999 or sorry, pardon me, 1997 for the parent company and then you guys in 1999. Um, and I know at the time actually you were called Ebates. Um, if I'm correct.

Speaker C: Yeah, correct, yes.

Speaker B: And then tell me about the story.

Speaker C: Yeah, the story is actually a really interesting one. So Ebates was born in the first tech boom that existed in our world. So that very first tech boom where all of those new companies and those e commerce companies were being created, that's when Ebates was born. Um, it was born in the Bay Area and effectively the business model has been the same since launch and it's been incredibly effective at driving a lot for a lot of companies. Ah, um, what happened over time is that the business saw, ah, exponential growth, exponential growth in membership, exponential growth in participation of different retailers. Um, the cool thing about what I know of how it was built is that they didn't really even have to go do a ton of business development in the market because the scale grew so quickly, so fast. Retailers were really excited to participate with this program because it was so impactful in the way that it was built and it was such a win, win, win. Um, so it continued. And even after that very first.com boom, busted, which we know what was born in 1997-1999, really starting in 95, there was a huge bust in 2000 and a lot of these e commerce companies that were created then went under because of the strength of this business model and because it made so much sense to the industry and because it was focused on sort of nascent e commerce players, this one lived and continued to thrive and it continued to grow exponentially. 50, 70% every year, um, over the course of 20 years, to the point now that it's nearly a billion dollar business. But the amazing thing is that even though we are as big as we are, we're still seeing double digit increases in growth. So it's still something that drives a lot of revenue for our merchant partners. There are 3,500 people that interact with us on our platform, 3,500 different retailers, and we can go into the different categories that we're in. Um, but so many members now who really rely on us and they start their shopping journeys with us. Um, and then what happened is that in 2014, Rakuten acquired Ebates.

Speaker B: Uh, ah, okay, got it.

Speaker A: Yep. What happens to loyalty when the customer never visits your loyalty program? Today, customers are using AI to discover brands, evaluate options and make purchase decisions, changing the traditional path to engagement. Fayden is leading the discussion on what this shift means for loyalty leaders, where brands risk becoming invisible and how Organizations can prepare for a future where AI sits between the customer and the brand. Reserve your spot@, ah, loyaltyinsiders.com that's loyaltyinsiders.com

Speaker C: um, so as part of the journey, I know there was sort of this consideration of, do we go public? And then I know Rakuten kind of swooped in and bought the company and basically left it intact. The really nice thing is that loyalty is very important to the business model in Japan. To your point, Rakuten is affectionately known as the Amazon of Japan, but it's built around the idea of points. You earn points for everything that you do in the ecosystem. Because Ebates was already built around, um, the idea of cashback. We didn't translate the points directly into the US because we already had a very strong cashback business. But this idea that we reward you for everything you do on our platform is sort of the, the genesis of all of our strategy.

Speaker B: Wow. And what I'm hearing there actually is something that I've often kind of reflected on in terms of business models. I've often kind of thought, unless your business is something that people will tell their friends and family about unprompted, you're kind of doomed.

Speaker C: You are right.

Speaker B: It's just too expensive to market something consistently over time and keep telling people that you're brilliant unless they tell each other. So I can hear if there's exponential growth of that scale happening for Rakuten Rewards. That's clearly where it's coming from. And tell me, then, why was it rebranded? Because obviously there's a lot of, um, money and there's a lot of time and a lot of just massive brand awareness that Ebates had. So why did you decide to, uh, adopt the parent brand?

Speaker C: I think when Rakuten acquired Ebates in 2014, the goal for Rakuten was to use it to expand its reach in other markets. And rather than make inroads and building their own business in the US and scaling it, which is a very difficult thing to do and very time consuming, they bought an a player that already had inroads in the world that they wanted to be in. And I think over time, obviously if you spend enough money on a very large company, you want your name on it. Of course, they let us play for a while under their umbrella as Ebates, but there was always an understanding that this strategically was really part of building their portfolio globally and sort of contributing to the global strength of Rakuten. And it to this day is one of the largest pieces of Rakuten's portfolio outside of Japan. Wow.

Speaker B: And I know you've been around. You, ah, joined as general manager two years ago. How did you end up joining the business? I know your background was always kind of retail and E commerce, but tell us a bit about your own background and career.

Speaker C: Sure. So I am, um, um, I like to call myself a retail geek. I have loved the retail industry since I was really young. My very first job was working in a stock room at Nordstrom. Um, I sold posters at the mall. I worked for Abercrombie and Fitch. I did a lot of retail jobs as I was sort of growing into, um, my teenage years and into college. When I graduated from college, I studied business, um, at Cornell. And when I graduated I knew that I wanted to go into retail. I had just done an internship with Nike and marketing. They're kind of a behemoth in marketing. I was fascinated by it and Gap, ah, building an executive training program. So I went into this program and I found the discipline that's called merchandising within retail. Merchandising is sort of, you're the general manager of a small product line and when I say small, my first one was about a $30 million business. So, okay, small is not necessarily small, but what it means is that you're learning how to run a mini P and L and making the decisions around how product lines are built. And also the most important component of that job, which I think dovetails in the loyalty world, is a maniacal focus on customers and a maniacal focus on what people buy, how they buy it, how they make decisions, why they do what they do, and how you can sort of influence them to do different things. So I grew up in different disciplines in merchandising for a long time. I moved into e Commerce about 10 years ago when I found my new love. Um, it's very data driven. It's instantaneous in what you can do and move and see the results of very quickly. And I managed a number of large websites in an E commerce capacity for a while. When I was looking for my last job, I wanted to do something different. I wanted to do something that had sort of a tech bend to it because I'd been building websites and I loved the building. Um, and this job popped up. And the beauty of this is that not only is it tech focused, we get to build a website, we get to work with consumers, and the consumer behavior here is fascinating. I mean, that was something I fell in love with immediately, but because there is this retail bend and because we work with retail. The strategy of how retailers move their loyalty programs and the strategy of how they do affiliate marketing. It was an easy slide for me because I was on the other side before. So I'm able to very quickly translate retailer strategies into strategies that work on our platform and at the same time make sure that what the retailers are doing is the maximum amount of reward for our customers. One of the numbers we like to look at maniacally is the amount of cash back that we pay our members each year and what they're earning that should be going up if we do our jobs well.

Speaker B: Absolutely, absolutely. And there's so many things I want to pick up on there, Kristin, but I think the first one is, um, uh, well, actually the maniacal focus on customers. Um, because I also. It's the one thing that I remember from reading the book that I mentioned read from your founder, but not only on customers, but also on merchants. Because the big point that he made, and I have, as I think I said to you, enjoyed, explored, and dabbled with E commerce for the same length of time as Rakuten has, clearly not to the same extent, but it is something that I love. I, uh, have a real passion around that. So what I loved as a founder was that he allowed the merchants, for example, on the platform in Japan to communicate with his customers or her customers, which is not something you can do on most of the big E commerce platforms these days. And it really stuck with me that, again, it's a mindset of somebody that really values what's important in terms of building business. Um, so the insights you must get must absolutely keep you awake with excitement every night. But, of course, given the current situation, tell us, what are you seeing with consumer behavior right now? So, you know, literally in the middle of this pandemic, tell us what's going on.

Speaker C: It has been truly fascinating as a retail professional and as someone who sort of understands the rhythm of shopping well, how much things have changed over the last few months? Um, we were at a point where we had a pretty consistent business that had a pretty consistent breakout in terms of categories people were interacting with. We were very apparel focused, very beauty focused, very department store focused. And as soon as this pandemic hit, consumer behavior shifted dramatically immediately. And I know that we all know this because our own behavior sort of reflected this. People were focused completely on essentials. We saw discretionary spending fall off a cliff. When it comes to sort of the apparel merchants that we have on our site, the department stores, they were immediately very challenged and they were also very challenged because they closed down their stores, and a lot of the stores drive the online traffic as well. So when you close stores, you don't really inspire people to go shopping. Um, it shifted to Marketplace immediately. It shifted to people like Amazon and people like Walmart and people like ebay. You were buying essentials, you were buying food, you were buying toilet paper, you were buying hand sanitizer, you were not buying dresses, you were not buying lipstick. Um, and that continued for a good long time. One of the, um, things that we did to react very quickly is we knew that a lot of our smaller merchants on our platform were hurting really badly because they don't necessarily have the cash flow to survive something like this, and they don't necessarily have the strength to put out a lot of marketing dollars into the world when they're challenged from a sales perspective. So we actually gave back our Commission at over 200 of our stores that were more essentials focused so that our members could, uh. We basically doubled the cash back for those stores so that our members could get more cash back on their essentials and those smaller merchants could float in the face of competition from Amazon, Walmart, et cetera. We really just wanted to make sure that they were well taken care of and that our members fel. Felt that we were taking care of them during this unprecedented time.

Speaker B: Wow. And honestly, I mean, that's an extraordinary gesture and again, reflects both what the consumer genuinely needs, even if they don't know it, but also what the merchant needs, which is a demonstration of loyalty from Rakuten rewards back to them. So, again, I always love this idea of when I'm talking to clients about building loyalty programs and they're asking, how can we get more loyalty from our customers? I really love to go back and say, well, how loyal are you being to them? And, uh, I love to hear that coming through in terms of how you're reacting. So has it evolved in any way? So I think for me, I said to you before, I think most people went into kind of literally hold and stop everything for a couple of weeks. Then there's the sending out the obvious messages of reassurance as best you can. But there's a limit to how much we can do that as well. Um, now that people probably have their essentials, I'm guessing they're probably not back to buying lipstick and apparel just yet. But have they moved into. I don't. Fitness equipment or home office equipment? I'm guessing there's trends like that that you're seeing.

Speaker C: Well, that was the other interesting thing is it started with Marketplaces, and then to Your point, it 100% went to taking care of things at home. And taking care of things at home involves keeping myself sane. Fitness definitely was a category that went up. Um, and we have a lot of online fitness resources. Home office had triple to quadruple digit increases because people were getting their work from home set up after, after we all realized that we weren't actually going back to the office for the discernible future kids. Educational, um, companies so educating your child at home. And then people needed to take care of their pets. So people like Chewy and Petco had massive increases in their sales as well. And those were really the four categories initially that kind of carried us for, I would say a good month, month and a half of this. Um, and we continued to our messaging during that time. At the very beginning, to your point, it was, please, we're here to help. We're all in this together. As everyone's kind of was. We started trying to surface as many of those merchants as possible on our platform so that our members knew what they had to choose from and the breadth that we had to offer in each of those categories that was trending. Um, rather than, I know this is the pet food company. I'm going to go buy for them. We wanted to make sure that they understood that we really have a broad array of selection in all of those categories that they can buy from, because a lot of them, the good ones who were trending up had inventory issues and you would go to their sites and you would not find what you needed. So we wanted to make sure that people had choice if they didn't find what they needed at one, that they could go to others.

Speaker B: Yeah. And I guess it is also, you know, just yet that, uh, change of behavior of, oh, my God, I don't want to go to the pet food store anymore for the next foreseeable future, have gone to you guys to buy that in the past. So again, it presents an amazing opportunity, this particular shift, um, for the brands that are in the right space. Um, so incredible that again, you've got that flexibility, uh, that you can literally be agile and surface up exactly what people need at any particular moment in time.

Speaker C: Absolutely. The interesting thing that's happening now is that discretionary spending is actually starting to come back a little bit. Bit.

Speaker B: Oh, that's great to hear. Wow.

Speaker C: It's fascinating to see people are starting to make a bit of a shift where they've been home for a long time. They're getting a little frustrated and they do want to buy clothing and they do want to buy lipstick. Yeah, it's not happening at the rate that it was happening before, but we are starting to see consumers dip their toe in the water of coming back to that. And then retailers who are starting to open up their stores again in store cash back is actually a component of what we do too. So we do have a physical in store cashback program, um, that we are starting to see inquiries from some of our retailers who are starting to open their stores that they want to incentivize customers to come venture back and get back to their normal pattern. So we are, I'd say we are being very circumspect about how we do that. There is a line that I want to draw in how much we encourage people to go out into the world. I think we have a responsibility as a company to take care of our members and make sure that we are giving them the information and the option, but allowing them to make the decision and then, um, still driving our online platform significantly more than we ever have before.

Speaker B: Absolutely. Well, you're right. You're balancing the needs of members and retailers. So it's important to get that, uh, fine line. And I can imagine that the difficulties in keeping it right. But even actually, just from a local perspective here, as you know and listeners know, I live in Dubai. And again, I think it's very reassuring that there's been a little glimmer literally since yesterday and today is the 13th of May. So, um, this episode will be going out in a week's time. But literally now, what the retailers, the offline retailers are doing is they're allowed to, um, accept returns for the first time. Um, they're allowed to open up their changing rooms for the first time. So again, for me, just from a consumer perspective, it is very reassuring. And again, to hear the right retailers going, this is how we're going to deal with that situation. Again, no pressure, but they're there when I'm ready. Absolutely amazing to hear that. And I did want to pick up on, um, the in store piece. Kristen as well. You mentioned to me before that you're also doing dining experiences. So tell me a bit about your whole dining proposition.

Speaker C: Uh, we have a lot of interesting ways that our members can interact with dining. Um, uh, we did a partnership, actually, with a company that allows us to give cash back on dining at 10,000 different restaurants all over the country. So we allow people to kind of explore this experience of what cash back is available. Near me from a dining perspective. Um, the other things that we're doing is partnering with people like Uber Eats, Postmates so that people can earn cash back on ordering dining delivered to them right now, which has become actually a really important part of our portfolio during this time is just the ability to service our members in that way and allow them to earn rewards on things that they are doing a lot of right now. Um, so that more direct to consumer digital play in all of those companies. Um, I think it's a really, really important category for us to be in.

Speaker B: And you mentioned partnerships as well, Kristen. I know, uh, Rakuten globally has some of the most extraordinary partnerships from American Express, which I'd love you to tell listeners about, and through to sponsoring FC Barcelona. Um, my fiance's a big fan of that particular decision and Live Nation, which again I'm very familiar with. But tell us about some of the global partnerships you guys are involved in.

Speaker C: I think, um, Rakuten has been on the forefront of global sports partnerships for many years. Um, it's something that Hiroshi Mikitani, our founder, is very passionate about. Um, FC Barcelona was one of the first and is one of the strongest and obviously is one of the. Is the premier football league across the globe. I got to go to a game where last year. Wow. Where they won La Liga. Quite the experience. And just to see the power of Rakuten in that stadium was really inspiring and incredible. Um, we took a lot of our clients there to show them the power of the global Rakuten brand. Um, and that was a really, really fun exercise. Another thing that we have been really closely aligned with is the National Basketball association in the U.S. um, Rakuten sponsored the Golden State Warriors. Um, I believe this is the third year of the sponsorship. They sponsored them the year that they won the championship for the NBA. So perfectly timed. It was really amazing. Um, and we are the jersey sponsor for the Golden State warriors, which means that our name is on the left hand side of the jerseys of the players.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker C: Um, and we have a really prominent position in, um, the new Chase center, which is the warriors arena in San Francisco. So that's been a close partnership for us. And you know, during a time when the NBA has been on an incredible upswing, a lot more interest in, um, sports and a lot more interested in that team in particular because that team's been really golden. Although their record was a little tough this year, um, that's been a fun one for us to work on. Um, in terms of non sports partnerships, the Amex One has been pretty incredible. What our AMEX partnership looks like is we allow our members to convert their cash back to Membership Rewards Points points. And anyone who knows AMEX knows that they have maniacal loyalty themselves. And people are incredibly loyal to Membership Rewards points, earning them, redeeming them, hoarding them. And the fact that we could allow our members to engage in that way in what was important to them. Maybe cash is important, but maybe Membership Rewards points are important. I mean, think AMEX is probably, you know, another one of the foremost loyalty programs in the world. Um, it was lovely to be able to create that type of linkage for our members.

Speaker B: Incredible. And you've reminded me of something else from the book, actually. And as I said, I rarely remember specific points. You know, you read something and you're impressed and then you move on. But, um, I remember reading actually that the points program in Japan, those points were available to use, I believe, in 600,000 stores in Japan. So that blew my mind because I couldn't even imagine the ecosystem that would create something of that scale. But I'm hearing it coming through in your partnership with amex, you know, that whole mindset of flexibility and doing something that the consumer and the member really wants to do rather than just get stuck in a particular way of working. That suits you guys.

Speaker C: That's exactly right. And the goal is really twofold. The goal is to allow our members to earn in the way that is relevant to them. But, ah, also our goal there is to introduce far more members to Rakuten. AMEX has an enormous portfolio of people and the idea that they would earn with us is very attractive to them. So amex has actually been great about building the partnership where this is kind of a mutually beneficial relationship and we can gain more members from them and vice versa. They can gain more engagement via Membership Rewards points.

Speaker B: Wow. Yeah, I love when it is mutually beneficial. Like, that's uh, fantastic. And tell me about Live Nation because, um, from Ireland, where I come from as well, I think, you know, um, Live Nation, uh, would have operated the biggest stadium in Dublin city. So I'm guessing it's the same throughout North America and Canada in your territory. Is that the kind of relationship or what do you do with Live Nation?

Speaker C: So Live Nation is, you know, to your point, incredibly strong in the world of tickets and in the world of arenas and artists and what we've partnered with them on, um, we've got a long term, it's a bit of an acquisition play from a customer perspective. But what we're doing with Live Nation is allowing customers to earn what we call ticket cash. So when they go and purchase tickets from Live Nation, they get a code for ticket cash that is effectively cash back on their next ticket purchase with Live Nation, where they get anywhere between 20 to $50, depending on who we are working with and kind of what we're working on at the time, but that they would basically be able to earn a significant reward for a second transaction and a second purchase. And we're advertising that on the Live Nation site. Um, there are greater goals with that relationship. The idea that we would use some of our in store cashback technology to fuel some of the commerce that they're doing in some of their arenas is something that we're really interested in working with them on. Obviously, that's been put on pause for a little while, um, as we kind of weather all of this. But as we do get back to live performances and as we do get back to the opportunity to be in person, that's a place where we could potentially build out that relationship. Wow.

Speaker B: Well, I'll definitely be watching that with lots of excitement. Kristin, there's just two more things I wanted to ask. Ah, coming towards the end of the show now. One is about, um, your conference that I know we're hoping will be happening later in the year.

Speaker C: We're hoping

Speaker B: tell the listeners about, uh, rakuten optimism and what you do with that whole idea.

Speaker C: Uh, rakuten optimism is actually something that started two years ago in the U.S. um, the interesting thing about the genesis of optimism is that in Japan, the rakuten brand in Japan has a conference and they invite 200,000 people to it in Japan. So it is a massive conference in Japan, um, that we have every year also called optimism that has been postponed because that was supposed to be in August of this year. But for us, we're building the capability of rakuten to drive things from a B2B perspective. In the US we have a number of different subsidiaries outside of the cashback business that are on the smaller side, but that we work with as well. We have an online messaging platform. We do ebooks. Um, there are about seven different rakuten businesses. And the goal there is really to show the strength of rakuten globally, allow people to understand this story of if you have not been to Japan and if you haven't been exposed to the rakuten brand in Japan, you don't really know the enormity of it. So how do you expose a group of our merchants and our partners to the enormity of the brand. But then how also are you inspiring these brands, these merchants, about all of the different product capabilities that we have, the ways that we're going to interact with our members, and how we are strategically building the business. So the goal there is really to bring everyone together and to tell the story of what this is going to look like over the next year or two and bring them along for the ride. We, uh, we have so many plans over the next few years to really grow the breadth of categories that we work in, grow our membership base, you know, get a lot more aggressive in online and offline retail, and then even, you know, plays outside of retail. Um, I think, you know, the dining and food delivery has been an interesting expansion of our services, and there are limitless opportunities, um, where people spend money for us to put plan. So the goal there is just to bring our people together to have a really good time. We have a lot of surprises at each of the optimism conferences that, uh, we have a good time. But yes, it's really about, um, it's about brand strength for sure.

Speaker B: Okay, well, I think I said to you, I've already signed up for the email newsletter just to keep myself posted. So if it does go ahead and please, God, if I can get on a plane, I will certainly be looking

Speaker C: forward to hosting you. And I am crossing my fingers that we can.

Speaker B: Oh, brilliant. Brilliant. And, um, just before I go to my final question, Kristen, I did see some lovely research before our chat today which said that people are increasingly looking for positivity as a direct result of this pandemic. So, um, I think you guys have a role to play in that. So, um, I'm going to make sure that we link to the optimism conference in the show notes. Um, and whatever we can do to, uh, inspire that positivity together, we should definitely do. Um, so my final question for you, Kristin, is really, do you just thinking about the listeners, most people, ah, listening to this show, I mean, there are countries all over the world predominantly running loyalty programs, which I think can be actually quite a lonely business. You know, if you have a loyalty program and, you know, maybe you're the top of the business doing that. Are there any ways that, um, my listeners can reach out to Rakuten? Are there opportunities to partner with Rakuten around the world, or is that something that, um, is even on the radar for you guys?

Speaker C: There are always ways that. The interesting thing about the Rakuten ecosystem globally is that there are so many different businesses and so many different touch points that people can get involved with. I encourage, uh, listeners to go to our website because it will give you a much larger understanding of what the ecosystem looks like. We are in. In Japan, we are in 70 different businesses, if that gives you an idea of the scale. So when I say that there are opportunities to interact with.

Speaker B: There are.

Speaker C: We've got a really well built out business in Europe that does a lot of different things across Asia. And then the US Has a number of different subsidiaries that can help, um, you know, it can help partners move things in different ways.

Speaker A: Um, sure.

Speaker C: So, yes, I think we are very comprehensive in our coverage of different industries and also different consumer plays. And there are always ways that people can interact with, with us.

Speaker B: Okay, wonderful. And with your permission, Kristen, and we didn't talk about this before, but if people want to reach out, even to me, so that I can forward them onto the appropriate Rakuten department, is that okay with you? If we manage it that way, great. Again, I'm a huge fan of the brand. As you can tell. I've drunk the Kool Aid, so want to just.

Speaker C: I'm so glad.

Speaker B: Facilitate that wherever possible. So as we finish up then, Kristen, the last thing I literally wanted to ask you about was your brand awareness. So we talked about it earlier in the show and I know you did a huge job on your hands. So tell us, how's the brand awareness now for Rakuten Rewards?

Speaker C: I think that's, uh, been the most interesting part of our journey is our ability to move the needle on that metric. Um, we started with a brand awareness of seven. This is, um, aided brand awareness in the US was 7%. No one knew Rakuten and no one knew the business and no one knew the company. We had 7% only because we had a Golden State warriors partnership and people had seen the name for about a year on jerseys. Um, over the course of the year, as we created new commercials, we taught people how to say the name Rakuten. We, um, built the business, we brought our members over to the new website. Um, we are now at 65% aided brand awareness.

Speaker B: Wow.

Speaker C: The fact that it is that high is really a testament to, you know, the strategic might of the team and the great strategies that they put into place to really engage our members along the way. Wow. Um, ebates was at 73%. So it's a pretty staggering accomplishment, I think, to see things reach the height that they did at the speed that they did. Um, and I'm really, really proud of all of the hard working people on my team who really created an environment that allowed us to tell the right story and bring our members along for the ride.

Speaker B: Well, that is the perfect note to close on, Kristen. Um, incredible brand awareness. I know you've won some incredibly prestigious awards as well for that rebrand, so I want to congratulate you on that. Overall, I think Rackuten Rewards is just an extraordinary story and I think you've told the story incredibly. There is a fantastic YouTube video I know on your LinkedIn profile, which I'm going to make sure that we link to in the show notes as well so people can get a better sense of exactly the work that you do. Um, and literally want to close by saying thank you so much for joining let's Talk Loyalty and best of luck with everything from Rakuten Rewards.

Speaker C: Thank you so much for having me, Paula. I really appreciate it.

Speaker A: This show is sponsored by Wise Marketeer Group. Operating the Wise Marketeer and Loyalty Academy for nearly 25 years, the wise Marketer is the industry's longest serving publication and source for news, information and insights, which now includes its own branded industry research insights and advice for global coverage of customer engagement and loyalty. Check out thewisemarketer.com and become a Wiser Marketer member or subscriber. The Loyalty Academy sets a global industry standard for loyalty education with its Certified Loyalty marketing professional, or CLMP, designation, which has created a community of more than 1200 marketing executives and professionals across more than 50 countries. Learn more about global loyalty education for individuals or corporate training@, uh, loyaltyacademy.org thank you so much for listening to this episode of let's Talk Loyalty. If you'd like us to send you the latest shows each week, simply sign up for the let's Talk loyalty newsletter on letstalkloyalty.com and we'll send our best episodes straight to your inbox. And, um, don't forget that you can follow let's Talk Loyalty on any of your favorite podcast platforms. And of course, we'd love for you to share your feedback and reviews. Thanks again for supporting the show.

Speaker C: Uh,