Best of the Back Catalogue | Creating Emotional Connections That Last (#784)

Speaker A: What happens to loyalty when the customer never visits your loyalty program? Today, customers are using AI to discover brands, evaluate options, and make purchase decisions, changing the traditional path to engagement. Fayden is leading the discussion on what this shift means for loyalty leaders, where brands risk becoming invisible, and how organizations can prepare for a future where AI sits between the customer and the brand. Reserve your spot@loyaltyinsiders.com that's loyaltyinsiders.com.

Speaker B: Welcome to let's Talk Loyalty, an industry podcast for loyalty marketing professionals. I'm your host, Paula Thomas, and if you work in loyalty marketing, join me every week to learn the latest ideas

Speaker A: from loyalty specialists around the world.

Speaker B: So welcome to this episode of let's Talk Loyalty. And today, I am delighted to be back in my favorite industry, which is the airline industry. And talking about airline loyalty programs, to me is always super exciting and inspiring. And many of you will know that's particularly because loyalty programs were originally developed and created for airlines in the United States. So there's a real history of innovation and passion for looking after customers. And today is no exception. So I'm really excited to be interviewing Kim Hardaker, who is the head of the ETIHAD Guest program. Now, I did originally plan to Interview Kim about 3 months ago back in February or March of this year, but clearly the, um, current airline situation has some unprecedented challenges. But actually, what I'm discovering is that out of those extraordinary challenges are coming some incredibly exciting ideas for loyalty programs. So we're going to talk through today all of the various opportunities that ETIHAD Guest has brought for its members to enjoy that program. So without further ado, let me welcome Kim Hardaker to let's Talk Loyalty.

Speaker C: Hi, Paula. Lovely to talk to you.

Speaker B: You, too. Great, great. How is life in Abu Dhabi today?

Speaker C: It is, uh, getting a little warm in these parts at the moment.

Speaker B: Yes. I always say to people, actually, if they haven't been to the uae, it's always either, like, hot or very hot. So certainly for us, we're at the very hot. In fact, we recorded 54 degrees Celsius in the car here last weekend.

Speaker C: Oh, wow. Yes, yes. I mean, uh, it's one of those things, isn't it? The beginning of the year is just absolutely delightful. Um, but then we can't complain having fun all year round, can we're?

Speaker B: Very, very lucky. Great stuff, Kim. Well, listen, I know you've listened to the show a couple of times, so you're more than prepared to talk about your favorite loyalty statistic.

Speaker C: Indeed, yes.

Speaker B: Tell us first and foremost what is your favorite loyalty statistic.

Speaker C: So it was a tough one actually, Paula, I did have to think long and hard, um, because I am a little bit of a data nerd. And as you can imagine being a loyalty expert, there is absolutely no shortage of data, especially when you have 7 million plus members. Uh, we record a lot. But I decided to go with one that was not a statistic of our own, but one that I had learned about. We were at the loyalty Awards conference in Vancouver in February and in one of the breakout sessions there was a discussion which was research from um, the US Space agency JD Powers. They had done, um, loyalty airline loyalty survey in 2019. And their statistic has just absolutely stuck with me since that time in that of their research and it's dominantly of the Americans or North American carriers is that 45% of those members were not aware of how to earn or burn miles. And it just really stuck with me of I think when you're living and breathing loyalty, uh, and you know, you're constantly evolving and you think with your communications because obviously using that database to communicate to so many, I think you just uh, maybe get a little bit assumptions that everybody really does understand the benefits that they have from being a member of the program. And I also think back to, to my early days of, um, before I was a member of a loyalty program and my dad was. So I think I just, I always knew a lot about it, but trying to convince my friends of why you would get a co brand credit card. And it was, it was. I think some people are just naturally exposed to that and really do understand the value where others don't. And that um, really played to that and has inspired actually um, my team and I to think about, okay, how do we make sure people really do understand the value of being part of this community and a member of our program and simplifying it, I suppose, um, so that the rewards equal happiness and happiness equals engagement.

Speaker B: Love it. Wow. Well, first of all, 7 million members, that's extraordinary. I wasn't up to date on how many you had, so that's incredible. I know you've been driving that now. You're what, nearly three years in this role?

Speaker C: Uh, actually 18 months in this role.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker C: Wow.

Speaker B: And you've been doing a huge amount ever since.

Speaker C: Yeah, been very busy. Yes, indeed.

Speaker B: I'm all. Almost don't know where to start, Kim. But anyway, listen, um, the most interesting thing always really for me is to start with understanding even. How did you end up in loyalty? Um, because as you said, you're a bit of a data nerd. I see lots of, you know, digital background in terms of your career in, I believe it's Australia. Am I right with the, uh, background?

Speaker C: Yes. Yes, you are.

Speaker B: Okay, great. So you're from Australia and you did loads in digital. So how did you end up on the loyalty side of Etihad?

Speaker C: So, uh, I actually started my career in marketing and advertising and, um, I think if, you know, reflecting close to 20 years in the industry, everything that I ever did throughout my career has had the customer at the heart. So whether it's the mindset of the shopper, how they interpret advertising, I've done quite a lot of market research. So, um, it feels like a natural evolution. So I worked a lot in agencies, uh, including some larger agencies around the world like Ogilvy and Mather. Uh, and my progression from there was moving into digital with some digital agencies as well, and then into, uh, Qantas loyalty in 2012. So I headed up their digital, um, loyalty team, um, to advance our different platforms and quite a broad business, as you and many of our listeners would know, with the seven different business units. That was my foray into, um, loyalty in its official term. Yeah, very much felt like an organic transition. Uh, and then, uh, from Qantas Loyalty, uh, over to etihad Airways in 2015, where I joined, uh, what was the global loyalty company. So we had a collection of loyalty programs in addition to Etihad Guest, uh, which I was heading up the digital for that team as well. So, yeah, and as I said, moved into Etihad Guest to lead the program in November. And it very much was utilizing, I suppose, all the experience over the years, uh, and in particular taking cues from the digital experience to really take that forward. Uh, because I think, um, loyalty is synonymous with an excellent experience and a seamless experience these days. So it was, uh, being able to put those or blend those together to really take the program forward.

Speaker B: And I love that actually, Kim, because, um, I can see a huge amount on the Etihad website about innovation. Um, and I do agree, really traditional frequent flyer programs really have to keep up to date with digital and new experiences. And I know you've been doing loads, particularly at these current challenging times. Um, so as I said in the intro, we originally were planning to have a chat back in March and record this podcast. Um, but then things totally changed. So tell us, how is Etihad and Etihad Guest specifically, I suppose, in terms of your team? How are you dealing with COVID and what kind of initiatives have you launched?

Speaker C: So we actually Covid's been an interesting time I think for all of us and uh, forced a lot of reflection. We relaunched the program in 2019, so in November so we rebranded and relaunched. And so we've very much been on this sort of self exploration, uh and sort of evolution of the program. And so we were using some of those techniques and the approach to customer research, really engaging our members in our program to really define our roadmap and move forward. So from a Covid perspective, uh, we absolutely continued that in regards to us, our members, um, what are they looking for from loyalty? And we will absolutely continue to do that because I think this space is um, we don't necessarily know right. Every day is a new day, uh and there's new challenges and new opportunities that are presenting themselves uh and really while we can uh, influence our direction from um, a business point of view, there is nothing more valuable than the input that we have um directly from our members. So. But I think there's also been um, some opportunities, as I said, um and you will have seen, we launched our new Etihad guest mobile app, uh which actually enabled um, a new opportunity to engage with our members um through a variety of different features and functionalities and probably one of our favorite which came at the right time in regards to um, creating more opportunities to engage um, when not so many planes were flying which was the Seamless Redemption, Real Time Redemption and accrual with our app inside our Aadhaar more here in Abu Dhabi. So three of the biggest properties across Abu Dhabi uh, which was um, a world first in regards to that process for the Real Time or Seamless Redemption. So many loyalty programs. I mean it's a challenge we tried to crack at Qantas as well, um but quite difficult um if you don't control that ecosystem or that environment. And the app has just been such a fantastic touch point for us and I think we all know in loyalty that mobile engagement is absolutely desired uh and definitely does help members engage with um, our programs on the go and we've seen some wonderful results uh, and actually increasing customer engagement rates across the program as a whole since COVID started. So I think um, clearly the discussions and engaging our members is really helping us to make sure that we're um, doing the best for them and making them feel nurtured and special and opportunities to engage with us because I think a lot of people still do want to engage um with the brand and the program and the airline even though they aren't flying because that aspiration, um, and that desire to travel and does not, does not go away. Um, so I think it's um, yeah, we're really, we're really comfortable with what we've done. Uh, we've also done a lot of other initiatives and I know there's lots of discussion about, um, everybody's doing, been doing their bit across the different industries, um, from loyalty that we've gifted our members monthly tier miles. Um, so to help them on their way to maintaining and upgrading their tier, we've also reduced our criteria as well to make that ah, easier. So actually seeing lots of upgrades in the program too. Uh, as well as reinstated any expired miles ahead of our new rule, uh, launching in August. So no shortage of uh, bits and pieces. Uh, and I think one more if I have the time, Paula. Our new brand campaign, which was, um, uh, very well internally known as Moments of Thoughtfulness. So from, from across, you know, the conversations we had with our members and what we could see, um, you know, sort of going on in the world is that there was, you know, all these amongst the, you know, the confusion and the whirlwind of the chaos. Yes, yes.

Speaker A: What happens to loyalty when the customer never visits your loyalty program? Today, customers are using AI to discover brands, evaluate options and make purchase decisions, changing the traditional path to engagement. Faden is leading the discussion on what this shift means for loyalty leaders, where brands risk becoming invisible and how organizations can prepare for a future where AI sits between the customer and the brand. Reserve your spot@loyaltyinsiders.com that's loyalty insiders.com

Speaker C: optimistic word for that. Amid the chaos, there was lots of wonderful things happening still. These beautiful moments of kindness and people really trying to do their bit for their community, um, or their loved ones. Uh, and so we worked closely, um, with one of our agencies, um, and built this campaign which as I said, called Moments of Thoughtfulness. And it was really most importantly about just creating a platform for people to share these stories, um, and say thank you and um, you know, put some good into the world. Uh, and we've just been overwhelmed with just these heartfelt stories. Um, it's been an absolute joy to read those and just as you amidst the chaos, shows how beautiful, you know, the world can be. And um, so those that have been chosen of being the most, um, kind and generous have been delivered boxes of all the things that they love, um, that we've curated with the person that's nominating them. So yeah, keep your eyes out on, um, our social channels and uh, our web and on email. So we're sharing some of those stories and we'll be sharing more of them soon. Um, yeah, um, it's really lovely to see. We uh, really do want to hold that or keep that open because the stories just keep on coming. So it's clear that people want to share this uh, at this time.

Speaker B: And it's a lovely idea, Kim. And I think on the show, and you will have heard me saying this I'm sure many times we've all talked about transactional loyalty and now we all talk about emotional loyalty. But actually the consumers obviously don't hear that language. What they see and feel is a brand that actually is giving them an opportunity. Opportunity to be a human being that is going through chaos, that may be completely freaked out. And I think we are perhaps unique in this part of the world. Kim, I don't know about you, but for me not to be able to get home to Ireland, you know, probably four or five times a year is extremely unusual. And I never felt far from home living in the, in the UAE until Covid hit. So um, I'm certainly missing family and friends much more and despite all the zooms and we have all of these obviously fabulous solutions. But I love the fact that you're giving people, people an opportunity to be generous, um, about people clearly that they love and you know, even to put them into that mindset. Um, I just think that's a gorgeous campaign. So really love what you're doing with that.

Speaker C: Thank you, Paula.

Speaker B: Yeah, amazing. So tell me, when did it launch, Kim? Um, we'll be ah, probably releasing this podcast now in a couple of weeks time. So I'm just keen to make sure we can link so listeners can have a look, particularly you know, anybody looking for new ideas about ways to drive their emotional loyalty.

Speaker C: So we did the shout out or the nomination call, uh, middle of June and we've been heroing both the nominations and um, what we're calling the unboxing. So the gifts that have been sent, um, you know, when the receivers are uh, uh, sort of, you know, unwrapping their gifts of loveliness and thoughtfulness from the nominator. So they are on our social media channels. What I will do, um, we shortly will be launching a hub for this content as well to show some of these videos and also some of the longer form nominations. So um, I will send that through to you um, in the next couple of days and um, you can pop that in the show notes.

Speaker B: Awesome. That's brilliant. Great stuff. So um, yes, very heartfelt in fact I was looking at another campaign recently, um, just McDonald's which doesn't have a loyalty program in the USA although it does in other countries. And again they were doing like a pay it forward campaign where you could gift cups of coffee. So I think um, yes, clever brands that understand what customers want are really tuning into this opportunity to be of service I guess. You know, I mean this isn't something that is serving Etihad in any commercial way. So um, I love the, I suppose the integrity around the whole thing and

Speaker C: I think that's as you say, it's uh, showing flexibility of brands and that uh, it uh, can be many things to many people. And that really was the absolutely most important thing to us is this is not uh, us creating this. The content is nomination done on uh, members own accord and really just helping us as you say, uh, of service or inspiring a larger movement of thoughtfulness uh, in such a chaotic time.

Speaker B: And it even actually resonates with something you mentioned in passing there Kim. Just earlier when we were chatting you used a word that I'm a huge fan of and one I'll be doing a whole show on, which is the idea of simplicity. And I think it taps into your actual favorite loyalty statistic that 45% of members have no idea how to earn or burn on their miles. I mean what are we doing?

Speaker C: What are we doing wrong?

Speaker B: You know, okay, you know, we'll have to put a hand up and go yeah, there's work to be done. But um, tell me about simplicity. Is that something that you're working into your program as well?

Speaker C: Absolutely. Look, I think it's um, a 101 of a variety of different streams throughout um, you know, through a communications perspective, a marketing perspective and digital as well. I think we underestimate um, how important simplicity is and especially these days, not only the simplicity of being able to understand the message that we're communicating, um, but also the simplicity of being able to use a tool or get access to the features and benefits um, that are known and loved. So um, it's sort of ah, it is a pillar of our strategy uh and something that you know, almost it's just a mandatory so for everything that we do. And I think traditionally with loyalty programs it's not always easy to do that because um, by nature these legacy systems which power big parts of our business uh, are not always flexible. They're often not startups uh, that are um, working in this space. So we are absolutely, as I said it's a core part of our strategy but constantly looking for partners that can enable that for us to help us move at pace. Because I think the appetite, um, to simplify engaging with us and talking to us is um, you know, it's not going to stop, I don't think, and nor should it's completely fair uh, for our customers and you know, we're customers at the end of the day as well of um, these businesses and programs. So I think it's always good to reflect as to what you would expect and how we can make sure we can deliver ah, that as fast as we can, um, to those that are most important to, to us.

Speaker B: Wonderful. Well I love to hear it's a pillar of your strategy Kim, because again I think there's a lot of people out there with very big strategies but you know, that tend to be forgotten. So I've been guilty of that in the past going, doing a big vision and then you know, you get into execution mode and the vision sometimes gets ah, you know, forgotten along the way,

Speaker C: let's say quickly in the rear view mirror.

Speaker B: Well done you. And the other piece I wanted to ask you about really I suppose is the measurement side, Kim. So um, there is a lot going on and I don't know if it's changed or if it's stayed the same. But from an Etihad guest perspective, what kind of KPIs are you, I suppose most focused on them delivering for the brand.

Speaker C: So as I said at the beginning, there is absolutely no shortage of KPIs in the way that we measure our contribution, the engagement within our program. So probably, um, one that I do really enjoy talking about and we're focusing a lot on at the moment is what we've built as our customer engagement score. So it's taking uh, all sort of culminating some of those metrics, um, that every loyalty program would be measuring in regards to active members. It takes into account um, the accrual and the redemption behavior and we also measure the engagement with our various different communication channels. So it helps us actually really widen our view of how people are ah, engaging with the program, um, how they are doing that where we think we need to be able to maybe uh, focus more attention on. And we also have filters on that in regards to countries of residence, um, in regards to the tier so we can, we can cut that pie. Um, however we need to uh, to ensure that we are able to take those different lenses. But um, you know, quite, um, something that we will absolutely build on, uh, and it's stitching together scores like that with our revenue contribution, our passenger penetration numbers, our revenue penetration numbers. So it's something we're sort of using at the core and then build out other metrics around that.

Speaker B: Okay, wow. And again uh, it sounds like you're simplifying a lot of data into one customer engagement score. Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker C: And I think it's because you can as I say, analysis paralysis. I think when you. So many different factors. We tried to I suppose add a little bit of shape to that to be able to tell a better story other than looking at these in sort of one dimensional um, view especially when these numbers get circulated around the organization. Not ah, everybody understands what an active member is. Not everybody understands what the passenger penetration is for loyalty. So if we can um, circulate, I suppose as you say, simplify a number that does tell the most um, influential or fully fledged story that we can. That's absolutely what we're trying to do because um, yeah, there will be no shortage of numbers. But it's key that we can sort of get the elevator pitch with some good metrics like this customer engagement score.

Speaker B: Okay, fantastic. And the other campaign, actually Kim, I wanted to ask you about. I know you've done a lot of work with them allowing members to transfer miles from um, other programs. And I saw a huge number of programs that people can transfer miles. I don't think I'd seen such a broad range actually. So is that something um, is that one of your newer campaigns or is that part of your existing value proposition?

Speaker C: So the transfer miles partners that we have on board. So as you say we do have a lot and that has been growing uh, over the years especially as we um, become a little bit more prominent in certain markets. Um though the campaign that we did most recently was also encouraging members to transfer their miles from other loyalty programs that they may or may not be using right now. Uh, and that they would also be able to earn or um, accrue T miles along with transfers. So obviously to keep um, working towards that next tier, uh we can help do that. It's also actually built on um, some insights that we uh, got our hands on in regards to how many loyalty points actually uh, expire from different programs. Especially sort of in somewhat of a pause right now. So we know um, that that obviously using our miles Etihad guest miles is you know the aspiration is absolutely to travel. So to be able to convert those, while they may not be using them for vulnerability programs right now means that they've got something to look forward to maybe from a Tear bump and also uh, a flight in the not too distant future.

Speaker B: Absolutely. And you've prompted a thought actually Kim. And I don't know if you've seen this but it is um, reminded me of some other lovely work you guys did around the charity sector where, where I know Etihad guest members could again donate miles. Was that um, I think that was even pre Covid, was it? Or was that part of your response to the current situation?

Speaker C: So we do have an always on donation, um, and we work with a variety of different charities here in the UAE and globally. Um, so the one you might be talking about Paula is we did a uh, Australian bushfire, uh, donation um, in sort of January, February time in which our miles were donated to Wires, sorry, the uh, Wild Animal Rescue Service in Australia.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: And uh, the response was absolutely overwhelming with the number of members around the world um, that were contributing I think just trying to do their little bit um, during that time. And then what we um, partnered with Emirates Red Crescent and UNHCR during COVID as well so that people could help again both globally and locally. And again just an absolutely phenomenal responsibility response um, from our members to contribute to things such as ventilators, uh, hand soap, various other bits and pieces, um, to help those um, you know, less fortunate. And uh, we were so touched by the response from our members that we actually matched those donations to. So Etihad Group contributed um, a significant amount of miles there as well just to um, you know. Sure, we did a little bit as well and joined our members, members in their generosity.

Speaker B: So incredible amount of stuff going on. Um, I know just in terms of destinations, Etihad I think is up to uh, back up to over 50 destinations. So already back in the sky. Super excited. I saw lovely messages from your CEO and all of that on your website. So um, I can see how much is going on from the loyalty perspective. Is there anything that I haven't touched on Kim, that you also thought might be interesting for links listeners?

Speaker C: I think I mentioned uh, our um, mobile M app already. Um, that's probably uh, our most exciting little baby at the moment. Um, but actually Miles expiry rule. So we did some communication around that when we relaunched the program. Um, and we announced that in July. So just recently we talked through the details of that. So at this present moment and for the years before, we've always had a time based expiry rule. So depending on which tier you hold with us, would define when your miles would expire if you did not redeem them in Advance. So in our discussions with our members through a variety of different um channels it was really clear that that was probably our um, biggest pain point because nobody wants to lose miles that they've worked so hard to earn. Especially when you know, maybe opportunities like now is a great example when we don't quite have the opportunities to redeem them in the way that I would like to redeem them. So we've moved to an activity based expiry rule. So members of the program need to do either uh, one earn or burn transaction um in the program every 18 months to keep their miles um, alive or active as you would say for Platinums, um, we've completely removed that. So why are the Platinums hold their tier status that their miles will not expire at all. Uh and so we're thrilled to be able to offer this especially at this time when members are not flying as much as they would like to. Even though there is a, you know, a number of other initiatives and the ways they can spend their miles, it means that they can uh, definitely have them in the bank for when they are ready to travel. So definitely something that um, I think was probably long overdue for us um, and something that we absolutely know our members um, were wanting and are definitely happy to receive.

Speaker B: Wonderful. And just Kim, as you mentioned, um, quite a few times I love hearing how much the journey you are aware of your customers, encouraging them and literally inviting that feedback. It sounds like literally on an ongoing basis. What format does that take? Just out of interest, do you do it through digital channels or is it more qualitative research in focus groups or zoom or how does that process work? Just to give me a sense of

Speaker C: that, we uh, use all channels actually. So we have what we call a customer advisory board which contains a lot of our um, handful of, of our members through various different tiers. So those forums in which we talk to them not just about loyalty but also other products and services that we may be enhancing or wishing to take feedback on. We have surveys so we do regular surveys of um, our members that are happy to participate in that and we've also done face to face interviews one on one. So I'm also personally in contact with quite a lot of members that we have no shortage of WhatsApp conversations as well asking and I think it's just building relationships, relationships with um, these members that are really committed to us and have spent a lot of time and engaged in our brand. So um, I personally am really grateful to be able to have that kind of relationship um, with our members and it just means we are able to have real time feedback. So try to create as many different ways for those members to communicate with us, whether it's also by email, whether it's through myself or other members of our team. So it really, um, I suppose changing that approach to make us much more accessible, um, as a loyalty program and a community of like minded people, um, for our members. So bringing us closer together, um, in various different ways.

Speaker B: Yeah, love it. And actually community is another topic I'll be talking about on a podcast coming to a station near you soon. So, uh, you're picking up on all of the same ideas and that I am. So I always love to think actually about the community of loyalty M members because as you said earlier, they don't want to be seen as numbers. They really are part of the brand. And I was thinking as you were saying that as well, Kim, something that I really love in this part of the world. It's epitomized in the Etihad name and in the brand because I know it translates to national. Am I right? Etihad in Arabic means national in Arabic. English.

Speaker C: Sorry, Paula, interrupted you. My understanding is united.

Speaker B: United, okay. Oh, even nicer.

Speaker C: We might need to be corrected, but that's my understanding.

Speaker B: Okay, wonderful. But I know, for example, um, there's a real sense of pride. So this country is supremely proud of everything that it does. And you know, and that's what I hear when people talk about Etihad all of the time. So whatever the direct translation is, you're right. The brand is something that everyone in this country goes, oh my goodness, that's our flag carrier. And they absolute love the work you're doing. So, um, yeah, just, uh, from my side wanted to say, uh, well done on everything that Etihad is doing. Uh, well done on a beautiful loyalty program with Etihad Guest. And, uh, just wanted to say thank you so much from let's Talk Loyalty.

Speaker C: Thank you, Paula. It's been lovely to speak with you.

Speaker A: This show is sponsored by Wise Marketeer Group. Operating the Wise Marketeer and Loyalty cash for nearly 25 years, the wise Marketer is the industry's longest serving publication and source for news, information and insights, which now includes its own branded industry research, insights and advice for global coverage of customer engagement and loyalty. Check out thewisemarketer.comm and become a wiser marketer. But member or subscriber, the Loyalty Academy sets a global industry standard for loyalty education with its Certified Loyalty marketing professional, or CLMP designation which has created a community of more than 1200 marketing executives and professionals across more than 50 countries. Learn more about global loyalty education for individuals or corporate training@loyaltyacademy.org

Speaker B: thank you so

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