So What...? Are Industry Awards Worth It?

Speaker A: Foreign. So welcome back to so what. And the theme this week is with Joel, and it's industry awards, which I'm very excited to talk about. Um, Joel, why did you choose this one?

Speaker B: So there's a couple of things, and it is that time of year, right? So they're quite visible that there are industry awards going on. You see it all over LinkedIn. I know you're running one shortly. So these are these big topics and there's lots to be discussed. But to start it off, these are, uh, big extravaganzas, big celebrations. And I kind of wondered is, is that what we should be doing now is, is these the right things for us to be doing in a cost, uh, of living crisis? But also, when you look at it and you really get into it, I do think there are some really good reasons why we do, even though people might be arguing against them. So let's kick it off.

Speaker A: So I, I'm, I think I'm going to be Santa. Uh, and Joel's going to be the Grinch. Mike, you're, you're going to have to be the, the elf.

Speaker C: I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm ring. I'm the ring master, it sounds like. No, so I, So I wanted to ask you first, Chris, actually. So Joel alluded to there. So you run an awards that. You run the, the Gen CFO Awards, the Jennies. Um, it's actually in two days time, as we're recording that this year's awards is happening. So, So I want to know what, what made you do that? Start that? Where did that come from?

Speaker B: So.

Speaker A: Oh, God, that's a big question. That's a big question.

Speaker B: I.

Speaker A: So basically, I've created a community of, like, professional people who get together, um, very much focused on kind of, you know, the people side of things. Right. You know, we don't. We're trying not to be corporate. We were talking about professional things, but it doesn't mean it has to be formal. And, you know, there's this whole kind of, you can't talk to your boss about it, you can't talk to your partner about it. Who do you talk to about it? So, and it's actually been really helpful for everyone involved to kind of get together and acknowledge that there is this kind of third space, as I call it. And the awards were a sort of natural progression from that, which was, you know, look, we're having these small circles, whether it's, you know, a meetup or a dinner. Uh, but actually, people were doing some really Great things. So for us as a community it was a bit of a no brainer and honestly it doesn't. We don't make a penny out of our awards but we do it because we think it's the right thing to do as a community to celebrate people. And there are so many reasons for doing it, which I'm not going to get into because I want to hear what Joel said. Um, but do I think we should do them? Absolutely. Um, you know, it's like celebrating the good news at the start of any meeting. It's just a good thing to do.

Speaker B: I love that you set me up as the oil to, to, to Christmas.

Speaker A: Sorry. Yeah, sorry. That's quite big, isn't it?

Speaker B: And yeah, uh, I'm going to enjoy it, I think. So maybe I am the Grinch. No, I. So yeah, I think, I think you made some great points and I, I am sure that there are going to be a lot of things. I agree with you when you talk about the value and the good that comes from it. They are big extravaganzas. Right. It does seem to be a lot of self congratulation, A lot of almost navel gazing does seem a little bit tone deaf if you're not part of the in crowd. And so as an industry award there's, there's definitely a thing of that you're already within a silo, right. You're within that industry silo and people will see from the outside. And this comes back from LinkedIn as well because you see a lot of posts on LinkedIn and you kind of wonder what are these events all about? So I know Mike, what are your thoughts?

Speaker C: So I suppose there's something in. There's a couple of things. So there's the human side of things. Right. So I think that where I think that what I mean the baftas are on the tv so the BAFTA TV awards are on the TV and we get to sit and watch the TV people be all self congrat, congratulatory. That's all a bit dull. Um, not, not a great fan of that. But actually in terms of being a participant at a uh, celebratory event where actually the whole purpose of the event is to be celebratory. So you're not just, you're not voyeuring it, you're part of it. I can see is a different tone if you see what I mean. So I can completely see the benefit of that. I think what to Chris's point around, the celebrate people are isolated is too bit strong. But you Know, people are individuals and, uh, may not get the recognition that they should in their organization, actually have firmed, um, amongst their peers. I think I can see that. I can really see the pen, the benefit of that. I mean, I wouldn't want to be in charge of having to put one on. Chris, I do admire you and the team and the effort that you put in because I do think it's. It's bloody hard work.

Speaker A: It's a lot of hard work. But if I, If I look back, right, so what happened before we put on these awards, right, for the people involved, they, they felt pretty unloved in their businesses. You know, they. They felt that they didn't have anyone to. To talk to. They certainly weren't celebrated. Um, all of the, the small gains that they made, you know, it was. It wasn't kind of acknowledged by their peers. So I think they felt that, you know, it was all a bit of a thankless task, you know, what they were doing. And, and look, everybody probably feels a little bit like that. So why. But why get in the way of celebration and good news and sharing of, you know, success stories? Um, because everybody involved is more motivated by the end of it. There's a massive halo effect with these things from, you know, getting together to talk about your application, of all the good news that you've. You've got to winning, and, you know, talking about it for three months afterwards that. So when I've spoken to a couple of leaders in the past, you know, they've said to me, oh, we've got this recruitment problem, you know, and we've got. We've got a talent issue. And it's like, but how are you attracting people nowadays? I think when we were kind of in role, they, you know, this, this was irrelevant to us, but now external recognition is really important to younger generation. And also the, um, you know, the visibility, you know, we did just. We talked about LinkedIn in the past, but visibility, visible praise, visible leadership, you know, that's all part of this as well. So I think the world's changing compared to what it used to be, and I think they're more relevant today than they were before. So, Joel, you're not the Grinch, but I mean. But maybe the world's changing and they can become more important.

Speaker B: Yeah, no, I think on that point, there's a nice thing about them where we do live in a very virtual world. By point of fact, the three of us are sitting in our own little offices, not together, whereas this kind of thing used to be done In a studio, there's something very different about the world now. So these kind of awards where everyone gets together, talks about the achievements, talk about what they've done, I think it's a real antidote. But, uh, you, you mentioned the application process. I think this is something that I've always found fascinating, that if you are involved or you and your team go for one of these kind of awards, there is a, a huge, uh, amount of work that goes into completing the application, writing about the success that you've had, working out how best to present it, taking a lot of extra time beyond your day job. You know, we could go on about that, but the ultimate bottom line is you're doing a lot of extra work is, you know, how is that motivating? And the, the crazy thing about it is it is. And people love going through that process and you can see the excitement in a team develop and grow as they build up towards the awards. So it seems counterintuitive sometimes because is the award worth that much? Go, Mike.

Speaker C: I know, I was going to say because there's something in there. So I was listening to, um, the Richard Osman podcast that he does, uh, around entertainment, and he was talking about the Oscars and the amount of money and effort that's put in by the film studios around getting an Oscar nomination and then getting the votes to win an Oscar is like disproportionate to the actual value and cost of the film. In some respects, you win and then you make money on the film is basically the approach. I don't think that's what we're talking about here. And I think that, that, that, that for me is just. It just worth calling out that I think there's a difference between the application process for an industry awards and then that kind of application approach for like something like that.

Speaker A: Yeah, definitely. And I don't think we should compare ourselves to the Oscars because I think that's a whole different ball game. But, but I do think generally, um, just back to the process, right? So yes, there is work to be put in the application and you could. There is a potential situation where the best application wins rather than the best kind of, you know, work wins, because if you put loads both into the application, it comes across better. But what I always say, because, because we're a leadership community, what I always say is that, look, this is, this is a leadership exercise. You know, just simply sit down with your team for half an hour and say, look, I want to list out all of our major achievements for the last Six months year. Because I want to put an application in.

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Speaker A: That's a half an hour conversation, but even that is motivating. It's like, okay, let's get them all out. You know, Dave did this, you know, Sheila did that, and then rank them, prioritize them, come up with what you want to put forward. It's a motiv. The whole thing is a motivational exercise to me. And what I've seen people who've really engaged with ours over the years do is they've coupled it up with, you know, a talent strategy or they've coupled it up with a team away day and they use it as like the, the evening entertainment because, you know, there's always something to do, um, at the end of a good day and, and they just embrace it for like the motivational event. It's, it's meant to be. Now process could be flawed and you know, the applications, you know, could be sort of brilliant but not come across very well. And there's, there's something in that definitely. Um, some, some event companies charge for you to apply. You know, we don't as a community, we just want as many as possible. Um, so I do see what you're, what you're saying there, but I, I think anybody who goes on that journey, that you can peg it to something really important, um, and so it's worthwhile doing.

Speaker B: Yeah, no, I, and I think what you're really highlighting is that to comment that it's all about the awards is kind of, uh, only a valid comment the first time the awards happen. Because once you've had that first award session, then people reflect on it. As you say, it becomes strategy or it becomes part of the strategy. Build out the plan so that, yeah, you're preparing for the awards next year, but you're also preparing to deliver better deliverables. Whatever your, you know, action plan says you should be doing, you're going to be thinking about how you not only deliver, but how you can really demonstrate for the awards. So you will likely uncover problems earlier. You'll, you'll have better communication with your team. So, yeah, it all becomes strategic. And I, and I think that when you look at the whole, which to be honest, I hadn't really thought about this before we brought this topic up. You are uh, you know, you're looking at something which is the cherry on the cake but it actually triggers or drives a massive amount of effort and process improvement. Right.

Speaker A: And just, just one comment because Michael know you want to come in. The judges smell out the glory hunters. I mean it's so obvious like the ones that have actually done the work. So. Sorry Mike.

Speaker C: No, no, no. I was just going to say. So you know, full disclosure, I've been to the Gen CFO Awards, the Jenny's a few times and I've seen the event, the event and how it's run and it's, it's great from, from the kind of the awards perspective. But what after being a few times, I'm seeing to your point Joel is actually seeing the same organizations coming back and um, being part of the process of nominating. They might not win. They don't win every year. They, they're just putting themselves forward or they might not even get through in the category. But the same organizations there because they have built it into their strategy of how they recognize their teams and how they recognize that the whole, the whole event and it is that external validation of the work that they're doing. I absolutely agree with that and think from that perspective it's a great thing gone Chris.

Speaker A: So let me give you like a really short example and this is a real life example. Someone who went on that journey. So, and I'm sure he won't mind me mentioning names. So there was, there was um, um, Tony Moriarty of uh company called Petlabs Co. He was working his ass off to basically transform this company pre purchase they were trying to sell. And I said to him he's part of our community. I think at first he was looking for a bit of, you know, moral support. I said put, put an application in. You know, it'd be motivating for you. As it turned out, independent judging as well. This isn't Chris's mates. He, he won leader of the year and he, he went right, okay, this is motivating for me. It's going to be motivating for team the following year he put his team in and I can't say whether they've won or not because it's this year. Um, but during that period they actually sold the company and now they're coming to the awards to basically have their last team do together as a massive celebration for all of the work that they've done before. Win or lose, it doesn't matter. So, so it's, it's pegging it to motivation and a bigger cause I think is really important. But I, but I have to agree with you, Joel, like, because I review every single application for us that there are a lot of people out there who just go, oh yeah, it's like, it's, they're collecting awards, they're trying to, they're collecting badges, like another LinkedIn badge. And that is not what, what this is about. This isn't a pay to play kind of situation. Um, and I think the best awards are uh, like ours, you know, but there are lots of other rewards out there where it's about, you know, rewarding the loudest or rewarding a business relationship and you know, know this recruiter giving somebody else, ah, an award because I want you to come back and do business with us. You know, that what I think a good industry awards is about. And maybe there's too many of those, which is why you, you had your view of, of awards in that way. Um, but yeah, I mean I will obviously stand by our awards. Uh, but I mean it.

Speaker C: So I mean I'm almost thinking that there's almost like. I thought you'd be supportive of awards, Chris. Surprise. But I think that what I've got from this, it's really interesting. You know, there's a reason that these things exist and there's a reason that these things are successful. There's a reason that some people will pay to apply for an awards. And I wonder if we touched on it in the middle of this, which is actually that an awards or an industry awards is actually like a real reward in the middle of this kind of increasingly virtual and disjointed world that we're living in. Actually it's a, it's a human touch point where you can really be human and celebrate successes and, and, and reward each other.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Joe, what do you think the future of awards, uh, are after this conversation?

Speaker B: Well, I, I mean I just following off it being a very real reward. It's not virtual. If it, if it was enough to just get your cup or your badge or whatever it is you certificate, someone could just put a little badge on your LinkedIn profile, right? And it would be there for perpetuity and um, it would be all good. So to your question, I think the future really is about looking to have these kind of events and really build them in to the narrative of what you're trying to achieve in the year. It's not just about the, you know, the day to day deliverables it's really about looking at something bigger. And, and that's what these are going to drive, because this is what's going to pull teams together. Not just because there's going to be a great party at the end of it, but because there really is something meaningful about the work that you're doing.

Speaker A: Well, I couldn't think of a better place to. To finish. Uh, you know, I think, um, the Christmas spirit has won you over, Joel.

Speaker B: I should be wearing my, my Christmas hat and, you know, tinsel.

Speaker A: Excellent. Well, we'll do that next time. Um, and speaking of next time. So, Mike, you've got the theme. Next time, what's it going to be?

Speaker C: I want to talk about myself, which is unusual for me on this. So, um, basically, external experts. So we're in the kind of gig economy where people are working, you know, fractional roles or small roles in different organizations. So, yeah, so a bit of a conversation around external experts. Consultants, contractors. Are they ne a necessary evil or, uh, an optional good or just a pain in the ass?

Speaker A: Excellent. Excellent. And if you got questions or comments, then send them to, uh, podcast at generationcfo. Com. He produced the podcast and we will see you next time. So that's it for today. And remember, it's not all about the numbers.