So What...? Has LinkedIn Become Just Another Social Network? With Joel Johansson

Foreign. So welcome back to so what, so what? And the theme this week is LinkedIn. LinkedIn. That was. I think it was a conversation that you guys had, but I took it on as my subject, so I'm going to line this one up. I think we should care a lot about LinkedIn. I think people spent a long time trying to work out whether it was social media or not, or whether it was going to be valuable or not. But I think we should be using it. I think we should be all over it. I think we should be thinking about how we use it, not just using it as social media, but we're going to dig into that and it'd be great to get people's questions and comments on LinkedIn specifically. And you can do that by reaching out to us atpodcast Generation CFO.com but yeah, what, what, what do we think? Like, what was life like before LinkedIn? You know, I don't seem to ever think about LinkedIn as being necessary before it came along. And now everyone says it's needed for business. Right. But before, before LinkedIn, we had newspapers, news. I remember looking for jobs in the new scientists. You go get the new scientist or you get a, A paper and you'd be scrolling through the back of the. Scrolling page, turning through the back of a paper, trying to find, find work. And now I think that that's been pretty much replaced by electronic means and LinkedIn is effectively your CV window to the world. So, yeah, that life before LinkedIn, I think, was very analog. I know. Jay, what do you think? Yeah, and I'm, I'm thinking also that there was something between that, that phase when we were looking at newspapers or going to recruitment agencies. You know, I think you're literally turning up an office rather than how else would you find someone? But I'm thinking there was that phase when friends reunited, which some people will not even know about, let alone remember. But, you know, you think about that time when that was the kind of, that social media started. And I remember someone sending me an email going, you've got to get on this thing, LinkedIn. It's like friends reunited for jobs. And at the time it's just like, what, you're just going to connect with people? What a weird idea. You know, you're just going to have conversations online because at the time there was nothing. We didn't have any context. Yeah, yeah. Now I can't imagine life without it or, you know, that whole way of engaging. But, Mike, did you see it as like a CV repository? Because I Think that's what you were kind of alluding to. It was like just a place where you stuck up a profile. Well, it, yeah, kind of. I suppose it just, it was, it was just a place exactly as Joel said, really. It's a play. It was a place where you started to network for work rather than networking for, I don't know, to see what people have had for dinner that night or what their cats are doing. It, it was, it, it was that kind of like that, that space. So initially I had no idea what it was for and I suppose to some degree I'm still not a hundred percent sure what exactly it's for. Just, just link to that though. When we were thinking about. I was thinking about this topic. I was thinking your business, Chris, basically came from LinkedIn in some respects. So it's really, yeah. Really interested in your kind of LinkedIn journey and views. Yeah, I like. It's. It's a small world actually, because my brother actually knew the founder of a, of a, like a LinkedIn type community before LinkedIn, which is called E Academy. And, and I think that they did, they had a really good go at it. But it was a bit like what you're saying. It was like, is it a CV repository? Is it a business community? Is it a publication? You know, are you trying to find jobs there? Like, who's the user? Do you use it occasionally? Do you use it every day? There were so many questions about how to use it and what it was for. What. What I used LinkedIn for back in the day was I wanted to build a portfolio career, you know, which probably resonates with you too. I wanted to basically reach out to people and say, hey, look, you know, I'm an expert in this and I'm an expert in that and can I get a following? Can I get a group? And I think that divided a lot of, you know, and to use that group, sorry, to prospect. I think what divided a lot of people early on was, well, you're only meant to connect with people that you know and you're not meant to grow a massive following. This is about business connections and, you know, keep it personal. The people who I've seen who have totally maxed out on LinkedIn today use it as a huge social network. They don't use it as, you know, a personal network, which is, which is a totally different, different thing. Yeah, it's really interesting to. Something I remember where my use of. Use of it changed. Well, use. Use is probably too strong a word. My engagement with it changes Initially I saw it as I have to met the person to click yes when they, you get a follow request or a connect request on LinkedIn. And actually somebody said, well, why would you do that? If somebody wants to connect with you, you're building a network for mutual benefit. Just connect. There's no reason to not. So actually now I just, yeah, as long as it's not a bot, then yeah, I will connect with whoever much more. But I saw, I saw massive value in it, like after the fact, like I didn't know I was creating an asset at the time. And I know there were lots of, you know, sort of analog expressions out there, like, you know, your, your network is your net worth and all this sort of stuff, which I think is, is, is fair in some circles, but it almost like democratized who you could connect with because now, you know, the whole six degrees of separation principle is on fire because like you probably can find someone who knows someone somewhere, you know, to get to somebody. But, but Joel, how, how did you use it? How did you first get into it? So I think it's actually quite a difficult question to answer because there's something inherent about LinkedIn where almost every time you use it triggers something so that changes how you next use it. So it was initially like just a way to connect with people, but very quickly for me it turned into a way of also connecting with resources. So it wasn't just about people, it was about training, it was about better understanding different industries and different ways of working so you could kind of take best practice. And then that in and of itself seemed to, I think, lead to me making connections with more people who were interested in the same thing. And I guess where it comes is now we know it as the algorithm, that deep dart secret of stuff happening on the web that we don't necessarily know about, but it is driving everything we do. So it's become so organic for me and I think that's the way it's going to keep, keep going as well. That all the engagement we have is going to drive something going to create a connection or create a level of profile that will then trigger more discussion. So it, it's going to keep growing from, you know, I don't, I don't think people will be looking back on it in 10 years time as, as just a way to get a job, you know, a universe to manage your career. I think you say, you say that that's in, that's interesting. I mean, I, I'm not sure I agree. So I think there's Two aspects. So I was just, I just, I just looked up on the Internet. So there was a reason Microsoft bought LinkedIn in 2016 and they paid 26.2 billion pounds for it. So there's got to be a reason why Microsoft wanted LinkedIn in their portfolio of things. And, and I don't think it's just to help us all network with each other. So there's something in how, how it works. It's personal data. Personal data, exactly. They just wanted to rip before the personal data. So there's that. But then I think in terms of the point that you were making there, Joel, about the, you know, it'll be our kind of like hub, the hub of, of her career. I, I almost, I almost think that it's become a game now. It's actually because I, I, I spent a bit of time last year thinking we had, actually, we had somebody on the main podcast, Chris, we were talking about how did they raise their LinkedIn profile? And I said, well, I post three times a week and I do it like this and I do it like that and I do like the other. I thought, oh, yeah, yeah, I probably should be doing that. So I did a bit of research into how LinkedIn worked and started. You remember at the start of this year I started, I'd started posting more and then I got to a point where I'm like, what the hell am I doing this for? You know, I'm not doing it for me, I'm doing it to, to. For what? And basically you can see that everybody is playing the algorithm the same way. So people that want to sort of raise their profile are posting three times a week long content, lots of links, lots of emojis, articles, keeping it within the ecosystem. So I just wonder actually if at some point we're just gonna become blind to it and just go, oh, bloody hell, here we go. I think it's already happening. I think it's. Yeah, exactly. But you, but just looking back a little bit, you're saying it went from like this CV repository to this kind of communication tool as a bunch of experts and you could build a network on it. But. So that sounds like it's quite different to what it was originally potentially meant for. This podcast is sponsored by Generation cfo, the community for progressive accounting and finance leadership in a changing business world. Want to level up your career Gen CFO membership gives you exclusive access to expert insights, events and a thriving community of finance leaders just like you. Search Generation CFO today and be part of the future of finance so do you think it's about getting a job or do you think it's about self promotion and, you know, I don't know, being seen as the, you know, the. What do they call it, you know, the most important, the mvp, the most important player in your area. Joel, do you want to go on that first? I, I love that idea because the thought in my mind is that, yes, I agree with you, there is a certain amount of gaming going on, but I think that's inherently where we are with all the social medias. And I think it's why you hear people say that, you know, LinkedIn is going to be replaced by X or there'll be something else. And then within a very short period of time, LinkedIn is still being used, but is evolving and people using it differently. You know, if we look at how Twitter was used originally, that seemed to be the social media platform for business. Now that's this, I don't know, social media platform for, you know, posting about all things exciting and trying to, you know, promote yourself, promote other things, but make money. And so it all comes back. I think as long as there's a situation where maybe LinkedIn can make money, whether that's for Microsoft or people on the system, and that could be because it's getting candidates for recruiters or it's getting people jobs, Whatever it is, the game is going to go on, but I think it's going to evolve. But don't you think there's this contradiction actually, that, you know, if, if like Mr. Beast, you know, he's worked the system, he's on YouTube, he's created an empire, and, you know, everyone respects him for that because it, because it's kind of public domain, nothing to do with business. On the face of it. There seems to be this sort of weird position that LinkedIn's in, which is if you use it really well, if you use it to your advantage, if you use it to make money, oh, that's bad taste, because it's a professional networking tool or it's a sort of, you know, it shouldn't be used for that. There, there are kind of commune implied community rules with it today that, you know, we shouldn't be breaking. And actually to say, hey, look at me, I did this amazing project with your, you know, best hairdo is bad taste somehow. I mean, so I get that. And it's interesting because through my head, going through my head was that that analogy with like YouTube and the YouTubers and people making a fortune out of the, the videos on YouTube it is what it is. You know, I'm not in control of what it is. It can do what it wants in terms of as, as a, as a, as a thing, but it is a social network. And I think that's, that's the, the point is it, it's. Yes, it's got a slightly different flavor, but at the end of the day it's about clicks. It's about getting people profile and getting people clicks. So the people that are doing, doing well, inverted commas on LinkedIn are people that are getting side hustles because they're now an in LinkedIn influencer. That's all they are. It's the same as being an Instagram influencer, probably, other than you're probably making a lot less money. It's, it's a, it's a subculture thing in some respects or it's a, it's a prime culture thing that you, you're becoming an influencer. I think it's much less now about that professional networking. It still happens. You still can have, you can still have an area where, you know, I still use it from that perspective every week. The pod, the main podcast, it's like using it to find out about people and what they've been up to. But broadly it's becoming an. It's, you know, it's the same as every other social media. It's not actually different. But on that point, and I'm thinking about these memes that we see where there'll be, you know, two pictures, the same picture, but the two different sets of text and one will be real life, one will be the Insta or one will be the LinkedIn profile where there'll be an example of what you do. You know, someone will describe their career and describe themselves as expert in their topic, spend their time investigating strategies, developing strategies and then providing them to their clients. And then the real life will be. Is very good at using ChatGPT or Claude or Gemini that they're basically describing one thing. The reality is something else. I wonder if there's a point where we can believe what's happening on these social media platforms and therefore on LinkedIn, that's going to mean a whole different thing than if it's on Insta because Insta is a bit more entertainment. LinkedIn's not entertainment. Right. LinkedIn's supposed to be where you search out facts about someone's profile and then you can say, yes, they're the right person for the job. I suppose that's, I suppose that's my point. And I suppose that that links to the future of it really, which is it was that in the same way as Facebook when it was originally created, was a rather creepy thing for, for Mark Zuckerberg to like rate the girls in Harvard or whatever it was. But that's the basis of it, you know, allegedly. Allegedly. I think, I think it's. Yeah, okay, allegedly. But okay, I, I think that the, you know, everything change, everything changes. And I, I don't, I just don't think it is that going forward. LinkedIn is not, not that anymore. It is just a social media network with a different, slightly different flavor. It's not quite as Elon Musk as X. It's not quite as Zuckerberg as Facebook. It's just a different flavor. It does do something different and you use it as a tool as you want to. But yeah, there are no rules if I think about, because, you know, I wouldn't call myself an influencer, but I've got a following there and that's actually what helped me start my business. But I, if I look at people who did that really well, you know, they, they grew hundreds of thousands of, of people on, on lists and you know, they, they were able to sort of market to them. The future is not like that anymore. For LinkedIn you have the same rules do not apply because they've changed the algorithm. I think what they want is they don't want individuals, you know, basically taking their proprietary data some way and moving them off LinkedIn to their own businesses. What LinkedIn 1 is internal traffic and internal, you know, sort of feeds. So they're looking for, you know, dwell time. They're looking for people to comment, they're looking for people to read. They want people actually on the platform. So I'm with you, Mike. I think it's going to become much more like a sort of social media feed and you are going to have to work at it, you know, if you want to be the Mr. Beast of LinkedIn to make, to make that happen. I think there's still huge value with the data set they've got. I don't think it massively needs to change. Recruiters buy packages, salespeople buy packages just to get access to all of that good data. And I think the behavior in the future will be the same that if you don't have a LinkedIn profile, recruiters will probably wonder why and you know, HR will wonder why. So I think that those sorts of traditions are going to reinforce what it's used for. So much so if you don't have a LinkedIn profile. You know, you might not even be put forward for the job. Especially if the first screening thing is an AI looking for a LinkedIn profile. It's going to be really. I completely agree and it's going to be really interesting. So yesterday was the Prime Minister's announcement about social media being banned for under 16 year olds from next year. And, and that this kind of like graduated access to social media as you get older. LinkedIn was never not mentioned. I wonder if actually one of the things, the consequences of that ban from over there is actually you'll see a migration or a younger people starting to use LinkedIn for stuff and that will influence it again because it is a way of doing it. I don't know. But it's just like it will change. You know, the society around it is changing, it will change and it definite but fundamentally it definitely isn't the first, the thing that we first all logged into 15 years ago. It is very different now here's a question to close on though. Could, could you, could you live without it? Because right now with my business, no is the answer. Yeah, I mean could, could I live without it? Yes. Would I, would I be able to function as a business without it? No. That's a different, there's two different questions within that. You know, we don't. Would I like it if it wasn't there? Sometimes, yeah. And I think you're talking about it from two different business perspectives. Exactly. Owning or running a bigger business, working as an individual, trying to get yourself out there. And I think on that theme again, recruitment, getting a job would be so difficult without LinkedIn. Yeah. In a global world. Right. You know, there are people, particularly, you know, pharmaceutical industry, that's a global organization that you're going to be applying to. It's not going to be a local organization. So how do you get those kind of jobs? How do you even find out about them? So yeah, I'm not sure we could live without something like LinkedIn if it isn't LinkedIn. And I'm sure you ask all of those people who are getting banned off social media right now whether they can live without Insta. The answer's no. Right. So yeah, I think we're all as addicted as each other but well, that's it for this. So what we are going to let you know what the theme is for next time. So it would be great to get your questions. You can send emails, you can send voice notes to podcast generation cfo.com Next week's theme is Joel's. And it is. We are going to be looking at industry awards. Industry awards and why we have them. Excellent. That will be fun. So if you've been to an awards, if you love them, hate them, chuck us your opinions and we will see you next time. And remember, it's not all about the numbers.