Ep #53 - From Market Expansion to Ecosystem Expansion: Rethinking International Growth Through M&A

Speaker A: I think in Superoffice, what we did, uh, in late 90s and early 2000 was to sort of establish new markets, go into Switzerland, go into Germany. It was also through mergers and acquisitions in some, uh, circumstances. So we said now that we sort of opened up the acquisitions as a growth lever. Again, we said, basically, there's two options you can, or there's actually three options. You can buy competing products and try to enter new markets. You can acquire, you know, CRM companies, so companies offering CRM M systems, but tailored to other ICPs. Option number three is to buy products which complements the CRM system. And in Superoffice, we said we don't want to buy a competing product. Then we're, we're down to sort of option number two and three.

Speaker B: Hello, everyone, and welcome to International Corner, the podcast that helps you open and thrive in foreign markets. This is Steve here, your host, speaking. When companies think about international expansion, the default is simple. Enter new markets, open new offices, acquire local players. But what if that's not the smartest way to grow? Today, Erlen Mohus, chief strategy and acquisition officer at SuperOffice, shares why they made a bold shift. They stopped using merger and acquisition to expand geographically and started using it to strengthen their position in markets where they already win. In this episode, we'll break down how to build a real product ecosystem through acquisitions. Why buying competitors can actually destroy value and what it really takes to create impact in the first weeks after a deal. Because closing is just the beginning. Integration is where the value is created. Let's dive in. Hi, Erlynne, thank you so much for joining into the International Corner podcast. How are you doing today?

Speaker A: Thanks a lot, uh, Tiffen. I'm doing, uh, quite well. The sun is shining in Oslo, and when the sun is shining here, far, uh, north, then you can't complain. So, uh, I'm doing well. How about you?

Speaker B: Oh, my God. I think you have a bit of a better weather than mine in Paris, but happy to hear you know, that the sun is shining over there on, um, my side. I'm very excited for our upcoming discussion, perhaps for the audience. Can you start by introducing yourself, your company, and the problem you solve?

Speaker A: Yeah, of course. So, uh, I work in Superoffice. Superoffice is, um, Norwegian, you know, built, but European, uh, serving, uh, CRM full suite system. With that, we mean that we cover, uh, go to market, uh, processes. Uh, CRM stands for customer Relationship Management. So we cover commercial processes for employees. Um, out there in Europe working in sales, customer, uh, service or marketing. Uh, what we do is that we deliver the software that helps you automate and streamline these, uh, processes. We mainly serve, um, the B2B market. So medium sized company with 30 to 500 employees, mostly, um, and do that in, uh, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Finland, Germany, Netherlands and Switzerland as well. Uh, 290, uh, employees and have roughly, um, 80 million euros in revenues. So we're a medium sized company ourselves. But, uh, mainly I offer, um, commercial software, um, streamlining processes and helping other companies out there improve their sales processes and their revenues at the end of the day.

Speaker B: Absolutely clear. And can you maybe also share your roles? Because, uh, it's quite specific. You don't find these type of roles in every company out there.

Speaker A: Yeah, sure. So, uh, my role is, uh, well, officially the title is Chief Strategy and Acquisition, uh, Officer. What that means in practice is that I'm kind of an in house consultant. Uh, I have a background from management consulting myself. So what I do is that I run strategic processes. That means, uh, figuring out what the company should look like, what we should do for the next coming years. That usually sort of translates into some projects, some initiatives that you want to do, uh, in superoffice, that has been, um, for example, looking more into partnerships, which is under my responsibility now. And then also in our last kind of strategy definition, we also decided that we want to, um, become partners with more companies, software companies and other companies out there. Uh, and as part of that, if there are companies that sort of really fit our criteria for being a, uh, very good friend, then we're also looking into acquisitions.

Speaker B: Okay. And I'll definitely dig into that with you today. That's fine. Before, there's, uh, this concept at the beginning of every episode that's called the icebreaker. So just imagine there's a dice with six faces. Just pick a face and I will read you a question.

Speaker A: Okay. Then I'll do, uh, I'll do four. So a bit, a bit more in the middle.

Speaker B: Okay. Four. So four. Okay. Who is a person who inspires you and why?

Speaker A: So I'm very good. Very good question. I think, um, in superoffice, we were founded by a person called Une Amundsen. He founded the company in 1990. I have never been able to meet him myself because he tragically passed away. But I think what he did with his company is quite inspirational. He was, uh, I've been told, quite of a character himself. He did some crazy stunts, you know, back in the old, uh, marketing days with some crazy things, uh, in the newspapers. He had some really cool Ads, for example, he had, you know, when the company in Norway back in the 90s went bankrupt, he paid for a full page in the most, um, popular financial newspaper. And then he made like, a deaf, um, post. You know, it's tragic that this company X, uh, died. Unfortunately, you didn't, uh, use Superoffice to manage your customer relationships, because if you did, you wouldn't have gone bankrupt. So I think he did some. He did some really crazy stuff, which is still part of our culture and DNA here in SuperOffice. I think, uh, living up to his sort of, uh, you know, his uh, point of view of the world and his, uh, way of standing out from the crowd. It's a competitive landscape out there. So being, you know, bold and really trusting what we do is, um, what we're trying to live up to every day. And, you know, also in memory of his, um, person.

Speaker B: Very nice. Do you feel that this still transpires within the company nowadays?

Speaker A: Yeah, uh, no, I think, absolutely. I think, um, you know, we have as one of our core values to be bold. And I think really, uh, being out there, trying to stand out in the crowded marketplace, it's extremely important for us. Right. We're big in Norway, but we're not the market leader in other countries. I think, uh, you need to be very specific and really dare to stand out from the crowd if you want to spark some attention from the customers you want attention from.

Speaker B: Okay. Pretty cool. And going into the fact you said you're pretty much a leader in Norway, can you define a little bit more your international footprint for us, maybe? And also getting into it the part, you know, where it's like your, let's say, your core team and maybe the others where it's like foreign companies that you acquired.

Speaker A: Yeah, I think, uh, very good, uh, very good point. So, um, in Super Profits, we were, like I said, you know, we're born in Norway. That's. This is kind of where the company was founded. But very, very shortly after the company was founded, the company went, uh, international. Um, which countries we sort of decided or ended up, uh, establishing, you know, um, offices and companies and colleague, uh, like many other stories, it was a bit random. You know, this founder, Ewan Amundsen, he met some person at, uh, one conference and they started to sell Superoffice. And then they met some other people on the plane and they started to sell superoffice. So actually, I recently found an orlod, um, newspaper article from 1998 where our founder said, you know, by within five years, we will have five uh, hundred million NOx of revenues. That's roughly 50 million euros. And we're going to be present in all these countries. And then they had like a long, long list of countries, um, which is longer than what reality is today. Right. But I think uh, what Superoffice did very early was to try to go outside of Norway because Norway is a limited market. We're not that many people and not that many businesses. So we quickly established in Sweden, sort of established in Sweden organically, so hired people and started selling directly in uh, Netherlands. We established through a partner. So there was um, person that our founder met at an event who started the reselling Superoffice and then we over time acquired that company and they became sort of our sales office in the Netherlands. In Germany, which we also have quite uh, significant presence. Our former CEO, so basically a higher number, four or five in the company. He moved to Germany after two or three years, established SuperOffice there. Um, and then we have you know, various different uh, stories actually with all the different countries we are in. We have been in Japan, we've been in North America. But at the moment where we are present today is um, Norway, Sweden and Denmark, which is kind of um, the Nordics, which is roughly 70% of our revenues. Between 60 and 70%. Then we have a significant customer base also in Germany and the Netherlands or Dach and Benelux M, uh with offices, lots of employees, lots of customers that's been with us for many years. Um, but Superoffice now said that we have these countries, these offices. This is where we really want to focus. Uh, so we haven't actually sort of started up new countries for quite some time. So we said at one point in the 2000s we said uh, well now we have the countries we have, let's really stop sort of adding new countries to the list and rather focus on the ones we have and really become a dominant player um, in those regions instead of becoming a challenger somewhere else.

Speaker B: Okay, okay, okay. Pretty clear. Just more about understanding uh, in terms of your ideal customer profile. Icp. What are we talking about?

Speaker A: Yeah, so um, we sell to medium sized uh, B2B companies. So you know, we are a B2B companies and most of our customers are also B2B so it's kind of a B2B2B sales, ah, promotion, uh, they are medium sized, meaning they have 30 to 500 employees. They're industries. It varies a bit. We're sort of industry agnostic from the software itself. It's not like it's tailored for hospitality or professional services. Um, but most of our customers, what usually sort of goes across them is that they have a significant existing customer base. So they're usually kind of an established company, they're not the startup, um, and they're also not the biggest enterprise customers. So where we succeed the most is the typical mid sized B2B company, uh, with an existing customer group that um, you know, has either outgrown, they're somewhat outdated system. So it becomes too many customers to deal with in an Outlook inbox or an Excel sheet. Uh, and typically they have uh, you know, more than 10 salespeople, um, on their teams looking you know, to drive synergies with these 10 salespeople and usually also you know, marketing and customer service agents, um, on the same group because you know, we cover all the processes in marketing, customer service and sales. So most of our customers, they also use our products for their entire go to market all the way from, you know, acquiring new customers, landing the first deal and then expanding and you uh, know, delivering customer service to those uh, customers over time as well.

Speaker B: Okay, and in terms of average deal size, what are we talking about here?

Speaker A: So um, like I said, uh, it's usually more than 10 salespeople sort of on the sales team within our customers. Um, so for Superoffice that translates to at the moment, right, 10 sales licenses. And then usually with our customers there are a few more processes being covered. So you can say the average is roughly 15 to 20 seats, which gives an average deal size in euros of uh, roughly 20,000 Euros.

Speaker B: I wanted to come back to one point you said about the markets you're currently in. The fact that you've been consolidating a lot and what's interesting to me is that most companies nowadays use merger and acquisition to actually enter new markets, but you chose to focus on strengthening your existing ones instead. So what drove that shift?

Speaker A: Yeah, and I think, very good question. And um, I think first of all most companies have different faces, right, to go through as a company and as you sort of grow up. I think in Superoffice what we did, uh, in late 90s and early 2000 was to sort of establish new markets, go into Switzerland, go into Germany. And when Superoffice did that, at that time, uh, it was also through merger and acquisitions in some, uh, circumstances. For example, we acquired, in 2000 we acquired a, ah, CRM system in Switzerland, we acquired a CRM system in Sweden and so forth. Um, but what we've seen over time is that you know, in our company, um, the CRM system that has kind of outlived the other ones. So the one that sort of won the battle internally was the SuperOffice CRM. This is where we have most of our customers, our revenues and our product innovation. So we said now that we sort of opened up the acquisitions as a growth lever. Again, we said basically there's two options. You can, or there's actually three options. You can buy competing products and try to enter new markets and sort of gain the um, you know, the value, um, of scale you can acquire, you know, CRM companies. So companies offering CRM systems but tailored to other ICPs. So either smaller customers than what we serve or bigger enterprise customers or a specific vertical, that's another option. And then option number three is not to buy other CRM systems but to buy products which complements the CRM system. Um, and in Superoffice we said that the first one we don't want to do, we don't want to buy a, ah, competing product. Uh, then we're down to sort of option number two and three.

Speaker B: So can I ask why? Why not buying competing products?

Speaker A: Yeah, it's a very good question. And I think, um, in the CRM space, right, there are, um, there are some local champions and then there are some regional players and then there are some global players, right? And SuperOffice, we're a, ah, local champion in Norway. We're a regional player in Northern and Central Europe. Uh, but we're not international. We don't have, we have a few, but we don't have that many customers in America, for example. Um, so you could say, well, why don't we buy a CRM company in North America? Because, you know, then we gain um, value of scale. Um, and our thinking around it is that we have two, uh, hundred eighty employees at the moment who are specialized in serving the European B2B market. We have our specific European needs. We also have, these days, you know, there are some parts of our value proposition, like the data is stored in Europe, the companies built in Europe, uh, some of these artifacts of our product, which actually helps us, help us win deals when we meet the Americans, for example. Uh, and we said, well, we could buy a company in North America, but that becomes a pure financial play, right? We don't have that much value to give to them. They don't have that much value to give to us. So then it's just going to be like a portfolio of many different CRM companies serving different regions. And uh, superoffice, that's not what we're built for right. Uh, that we would need to establish like another management on top of the management. It become like, comes like uh, almost like a fund and not the software company like we are. So we said, you know, let, let others do the, the play where they buy multiple CRM systems and let they compete in different markets. That's not what uh, we're experts in.

Speaker B: Therefore, as of now every company that uh, you guys acquired has been merged within your teams. Like you don't have any companies that live separately and do their own thing very independent.

Speaker A: Well, we actually do. Because what we said though is that uh, well we focused on the three options that we mentioned earlier. Right. We focus on option number three which is to buy complementary products. But what we really want to see when we look at companies is that the companies, number one, they're doing well on their own. So we don't want to acquire a sinking ship and integrate it into our product and make it float. What we want is to see companies that have really understood their market space, their vertical, their product area. And if they have done so, then the company is hopefully growing nicely, they have good margins. Um, and when we acquire such uh, companies, for example, we acquired one just before now Christmas, which was an event management company. Um, what they do, they do well, they are in the rule of 40, they grow, they're profitable, um, and they have sort of made the fantastic company without the help of Superoffice. So what we want to do with them, uh, is that they should continue to do exactly what they do because they're doing amazing. But hopefully we can. Or what we're doing is that we're making a very good integration to our CRM system as well. So we can cross sell their product to our customers and then hopefully over time one plus one could equal a bit more than two. That's basically the goal. So they continue to do whatever they do because they're doing great. We might help with some input, some insights. We sort of manage them through our board where we of course have some knowledge that they can leverage as well. Uh, but we want them to continue their business and then we want to cross sell their product into our customer base because they have a fantastic product which many of our customers need. And it's better for our customers to buy event management from SuperOffice than to find somewhere else, ah, that's not attached to the CRM system because obviously there's uh, a very good value proposition when you can have the CRM system store the data and the contacts and um, that part and then you have a separate system on the side actually running the event and of course the data flows back and forth from these systems.

Speaker B: And how do you decide whether you uh, want to acquire a company for its market, its products, because it's great or like the fit within your ecosystem?

Speaker A: Yeah, it varies of course for each case. Right. Uh, I think for SuperOffice we are a uh, dominant player in the markets where we're in. So there are of course some companies out there that have made a living based on creating add on products to SuperOffice. Um, for those examples, when we look into acquiring them, it's a bit more, it makes more sense to sort of integrate it more tightly to our operation and our team and our offices and so forth. Um, but it depends on the company, right. If the company is big enough on their own and they don't need SuperOffice to sort of succeed, then it's better that they keep doing what they're doing. But if the company is very dependent on SuperOffice and could really benefit from sort of getting into our systems, then it's more of a closer integration with sort of what we have here in our company.

Speaker B: Clear. And as you mentioned, because you have different types, I would say of like integration you're making, how do you deal with the teams themselves? Because it seems that some of them have joined your team within offices that you have currently. Some others might be operating in parallel still. Or like how does that fit?

Speaker A: Yeah, no, it's, it's a good question. It's, it's kind of the same answer as the previous one. Right. It depends on the company. So for example, we acquired one company after the summer last year. So in September 2025, what that company did was that they delivered sort of technical consultancy to CRM customers uh, out there. And the CRM customers were customers of SuperOffice. So SuperOffice CRM M was kind of the foundation of what that company did. Uh, and of course if your entire kind of business, uh, model and your delivery and your value proposition is based on SuperOffice already being at the customer, then it makes more sense for us to sort of integrate your processes into our company.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker A: Um, but uh, with the other example, right, with the event management uh, software, I think we ended up finding three customers that we had in common. Uh, but that was, you know, by chance, this chance it was quite random and not because we sort of strategically pursued it together. So for that company it made more sense to keep them on the side, keep their own offices, their own cultural, their own summer Party and so forth. Uh, but rather, uh, integrate the product on like an API level so that customers can benefit the value from both solutions with integrated data. Um, but we don't need the same processes necessarily internally because you're doing better with what you have and we're doing better with what we have.

Speaker B: And in the latter case, what's the relationship then with the superoffice team? Like, do you have, in terms of organization, do you have someone, you know, that's still kind of in charge? That goes quite often there, you know, to see what's happening, to just create that relationship between both companies. How do you usually work?

Speaker A: It's a great question. And what we've set up, um, there is that, um, in the, in the beginning now, of course, we, we had to make the product integration because the, uh, products need to speak together. So in the beginning it's been, it's been quite detailed conversations with the product teams. So there's one product manager from each side sort of owning the integration. They have become quite close friends and, uh, speak together almost every day for a certain period of time to get the product into place. And then of course, as part of that, once we've now, uh, done with that integration, we actually launched their product on our price list, uh, last week. So now all of the salespeople in superoffice can sell, quote, invoice, uh, that product through our sort of systems. Um, and then of course, um, it's not like you can wake up on a Tuesday and suddenly you're an expert to selling event management when you've been selling CRM your entire life. So what happens in practice, right, is that our salespeople, they have dialogues with our customers. And as part of their dialogues now, they also ask a few more questions. Do you run events? How many events do you run? Who owns the event management process? Uh, and then if, well, if the answer to any of the above is yes, and it's owned by our B2B commercial team, then what we usually do is that we then invite our experts from the other company over and then we run the sales process together. And the idea is then that over time, you know, our salespeople who are currently not experts in selling event management, over time they will learn the basics. So they might be able to do this, you know, the simple cases themselves. Um, but over time as well, we think that the complex cases, we always will need to use experts from the event management company itself because they're the ones that are really experts in this. And we in superoffice we should continue to be experts on CRM, but we're kind of, you know, learning by doing, uh, on the event management side. So it's kind of done on a go to market level, um, salespeople in contact with salespeople and of course sales management, also planning shared events and so forth with the two, you know, go to market units.

Speaker B: All right. So it's really more on a selling perspective, cross selling, trying to see like how you can sell more value and enable the salespeople from Superoffice to see the wider picture, I guess, more easily. And then in case it becomes more specific, then you grab the experts from that specific company to jump in a call, for instance.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Um, and uh, of course it all starts with the product. So we had to get the good product integration into place first and really have a, you know, have an offering that actually creates customer value. But now that we have that, then it's then it's over to sort of the commercial teams to plan shared events, shared webinars, shared activities. And then also of course for our salespeople who go out and meet our customers, uh, to have this as part of the talk tracks. Right now, uh, we don't just have to talk about sales processes or marketing processes. We can also ask do you do events? And if not, maybe you should. And we have a fantastic solution which is actually Europe's best offering for uh, CRM and event management together.

Speaker B: I see. I see. From my understanding then at the commercial level, uh, it happens after the product integration, you know, because for instance in the US you see a lot of like marketing and sales, you know, like happening before even like sometimes integration are made. Is that kind of, uh, experience, you know, you have like from the past that you start product integration before marketing and sales or.

Speaker A: Yeah, m. I think, um, of course you, you should never build a product that you don't know that the customers will buy. Right. So we of course done, you know, quite a lot of product discovery and so forth. Um, but I think for us it was quite evident that event management and having the event management, uh, planning and running as part of the go to market with the same data, the value proposition is very good and there's not that many competitors that are actually offering the same process that we now do. Uh, so after we were successful in acquiring this company, we didn't need to do another product discovery before we knew that we should build this thing. So then it was more building and then selling then I think, you know, like you said, Americans, um, are often sort of better at selling, uh, things before it's actually ready. But I think for us in Super Profits, since we knew that we were going to build this, it was quite clear to us that we wanted to have, you know, when we start mentioning it in customer meetings, we wanted to really have a solution that we can demo the next day, uh, and not say, fantastic, and then we'll come back in three months. Right. We really wanted to have the solution since we now own the company as well. It's, of course, important for us to really show the customers that this is an integrated solution and it's a part of us and we'll help you manage everything you need, uh, and not sort of sell, um, you know, sell the pizza before it's cooked.

Speaker B: I get it, I get it. Also, like, cultural differences, you can feel the difference, like between American approach, you know, and maybe a more cautious approach, you know, from, uh, Europe. Specifically speaking, what's the relationship between the teams, or maybe the management team of that event company, for instance, and super office management company? Is it just like, uh, I don't know, like a weekly reporting, you know, to like a, uh, SuperOffice CEO about, like, how finances are going or do you have common pipe reviews or like, maybe like, uh, one of the top sales execs at you guys that actually run some commercial stuff, you know, with them as well?

Speaker A: Yeah, no, um, that's sort of the structure we've built is, of course, based on how we sort of wanted them to operate. So we've said, you know, as a basis, you should continue to do what you used to do in the past because you've been doing great. So what we said, we don't want to sort of ruin your processes by forcing you to sort of adopt how we do things in Superoffice, because we have a different, somewhat different culture. It's actually quite similar, but there are, of course, some differences. So what we've said is that everyone in Superoffice, you now have a colleague in another company called Litte. Uh, and there are someone there that has the same job description as you. That's amazing because that means you can spar with them, you can learn from them, they can learn from us. Uh, so what we've done is that we've sort of set together the product manager from SuperOffice now speaks to the product manager from. From Litte, and they learn from each other. They discuss processes. Um, but the product manager from Litte doesn't report to the one from SuperOffice and not the other way around, either.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker A: So everyone in lite, you know, they maintain their previous reporting structure. Uh, the only change is that the CEO now reports to a board which consists of superoffice management, uh, and not their previous owners. Uh, so we've sort of said, please collaborate and learn. That's amazing. Let's sort of leverage every chance we have to learn from other colleagues with similar jobs, uh, out there. But we're not going to change any reporting structures. That also means, um, you know, we of course collaborate on a go to market level. We look at the deals that are in the pipeline, we look at the events that we have coming up, we look at sort of the activity level. Uh, but their sales manager is not reporting their numbers to our sales manager. They're doing their own reporting. And then the CFO and the CEO sort of reports the overall company numbers to their board, which consists of, uh, the SuperOffice CEO, the SuperOffice CFO, and myself.

Speaker B: Okay. It's really more, uh, after cohesion between some teams so that we better cross sell together. But not necessarily change of reporting structure.

Speaker A: No. And then of course, uh, there are certain recurring meetings. For example, uh, it's important for us that the superoffice teams, you know, get enough of an introduction to the, to the product and the company and the culture and the value. Uh, so we've had some internal webinars, there's been some internal sessions, There are going to be some internal part days. So people sort of build personal relationships, but we don't want people to build, you know, uh, reporting relationships because this is more about becoming, uh, friends, learning, um, what others are doing and collaborate, rather than sort of changing the way people report.

Speaker B: Do you think sometimes, because, you know we're talking about M and a merger and acquisition, do you think sometimes expanding internationally through MA is a mistake or maybe just overused? We mentioned the first point. Acquiring competitor. Like, there's a lot of markets where you have consolidation happening and sometimes you just buy to kill it. What are your thoughts on that?

Speaker A: It's another great question. And I think the most important thing when you do mergers and acquisitions is to be very clear on what you're actually doing. So in superoffice, we have some examples where it is a merger, we're buying a company, it makes sense to integrate it and let them become a part of our processes. And we need to be very clear on, um, the fact that that's the goal. While in other cases it is actually an acquisition, it's not a merger, it is an acquisition. And then we also need to be very clear that that's the goal. So I think what some companies are doing wrong is that they're not very clear on what the ambition is. And if people don't know the ambition, then it's very hard to see yourself as an employee. What's my role in this? How will it change my Tuesdays? Will I report to someone else? Do I need to start working differently, etc. So I think being very clear on what you actually do is, I think, very important. And then we have a company here in Norway which is a great friend of SuperOffice called Visma. It's, um, your ERP house. Um, what they do well is that they're very clear. They acquire companies to enter into new markets. Um, they acquire companies to gain market share. Um, but they're not merging them. Right. They're kind of, if you put it black and white, they're sort of putting them side by side, uh, letting them sometimes even compete. Uh, but then it's more, um, a matter of, you know, improving processes, uh, helping them become, um, even better competitors within the market where they are. Whereas in Superoffice, we have a different strategy. It's more of a, More of a strategic buyers, where we actually sort of integrate the product, uh, on an API level and we sort of build everything around one CRM system and not several systems.

Speaker B: So the ecosystem, as you mentioned, really for you, uh, is what's important.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Okay. Looking back, uh, because you've done like a lot in terms of, uh, acquisition, um, what are the biggest mistakes to avoid, basically in M and A? Uh, and on the flip side, what are the few things you absolutely need to get right? Right.

Speaker A: Yeah. I think, uh, one of the things that uh, are most commonly a mistake is not doing what we just discussed. Right. So if you're not clear on what the actual goal is, if you're sort of. It's like going into a candy store, right? If you go into a candy store, it's very hard to go out and not buy candy because you kind of want the stuff that is there. And I think in M and A, it's a lot of similar stuff. I think as soon as you as a company are sort of going out there saying that you're now pursuing acquisitions, there are, you know, many, many people and companies and environments out there which are paid for, sell for selling companies. Right? So you will get a lot of companies sort of coming your way, um, to spark your interest and I think as, um, responsible for M and S. The most important thing you need to learn to do is to say no, because you need to have defined, you know, your strategy. What type of companies do you want to acquire? Is it product companies, is it software companies, service companies, who, where should they be, what size should they be, etc. Uh, so I think be very clear on, um, what, what you want to accomplish and then what sort of the criteria, the company criteria and the things they need to match to be relevant and then being very good at saying no if it doesn't fit. I think it's, it's the most common mistakes that you sort of end up buying something because you sort of didn't really look yourself in the mirror and ask. This is really something we want to and need to do.

Speaker B: Okay. A lot of what you just mentioned, uh, is part of everything you shared. I think from the beginning. One thing maybe I wanted to come back, uh, that you said at the beginning about expansion and how you guys started in all the countries besides Norway, you know, when you started in those countries, so Sweden, Germany, etc. Did you always start by an acquisition and then you built around it, or was it first, like you tried to go direct with your sales teams, you know, and then when you started to better understand the market, then you did your first acquisition position?

Speaker A: Yeah, no, great question. Uh, again, and for, uh, Superoffice, it. It is a bit, uh, of a mixed answer actually. In most of the countries we actually established, uh, organically. So basically, um, in Germany, well, if we go through the countries, right, because they're not that many, so we actually have time for it as well. So in Germany are at the moment, then, um, head of sales basically moved to Germany and tried to establish SuperOffice there. Uh, what he at the time did was that he rented an office from another, uh, Norwegian company who had, you know, moved out to Germany and were successful in establishing. So he learned sort of the processes and where to go and what to do from them. He learned the language. But very quickly he also figured out that, you know, we need some more people. So he hired sort of the first person. Uh, and then they together sort of established a team that was, uh, big enough and the customer base big enough as well so that the Norwegian guy could move back to Norway. And he ended up becoming the SuperOffice CEO, uh, after a while. So Germany was organic. In the Netherlands it was different. Um, it started off by having a Dutch partner. So they were resellers of SuperOffice, built a very nice business over time. And then Superoffice, uh, uh, figured out, well, this company they only sell SuperOffice. It's such a nice business. Why don't we buy it and make it a part of the company? So then it's kind of a mix then of kind of a partner led, uh, establishment and then over time an acquisition. Uh, but then you acquired a company that only sold SuperOffice, right? So you kind of acquired a partner.

Speaker B: In that case, you didn't only acquire software companies even like other kind of structures like reseller companies for instance.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, correctly. Okay, correctly. And then, um, Sweden, it's also a mix. Right. We established ourselves organically in the beginning, but then we also acquired another Swedish, uh, based CRM system. So it was kind of a mix, uh, in Sweden as well. In Switzerland we established with an acquisition, so basically acquired a CRM company over time. We ended up actually migrating all the customers on that CRM system to SuperOffice.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker A: So that system is now sort of without customers. And we ended up kind of, uh, you know, it was the public that sort of lost the Swiss battle. So all the customers over time migrated over to SuperOffice. And then there are different stories like this in each country actually. So I think, you know, it's very, it's very hard to say that you should, um, open new countries based on acquisitions or you shouldn't because it depends on the context, it depends on the product, it depends what relationships you have, if you know the language, etc. So I think it's very hard to give sort of a clear yes or no on uh, what you should do because it all depends on the context.

Speaker B: Okay, Pretty clear. I also wanted to come back to one point you mentioned, uh, creating value, cross selling so that the team from Superoffice, you know, they could sell like the other products that are starting to be part of the ecosystem. In practice, as you mentioned, you know, like you have like product to product talking. At some point you have sales to sales. But just to walk us through, let's say, um, a step, two step, high level, uh, the few months after the acquisition happens. When do you start having those teams talking to each other? Because there is sometimes it's also to defocus the SuperOffice team if nothing is ready yet to go to market or a bit, let's say unprepared.

Speaker A: So you know, very sort of, uh, not very detailed, but chronologically what we did was already in the sort of the M and A process. So when we talked to their management about potentially acquiring the company, uh, we already then looked at how the products could integrate and if that offering was kind of strong enough to, you know, defend the superoffice actually acquiring the company. Uh, so we started very early with sort of mapping the products and how it, how it could look like in the future. But then at the moment there was no one else in superoffice that knew about the process except our management team. So very few people involved. Um, and then we announced acquisition. We also, in superoffice we have a listed bond, so there are certain things we can't tell all employees because there are limits to stock exchange rules, etc. But then once we announced um, the acquisition internally and to the market, since we had done the mapping, we already knew what the products would do together. So already at the first introduction to our employees and also the market, we were able to say, this is what you will be able to do in the future. We're going to have to build it, but this is what you will be able to do. We already had a timeline that uh, it would take approximately four or three months to build it and make it complete. Um, then what we did was that we quickly established, uh, the product team. This is what we wanted to build. And uh, there might be some tweaks, but this is roughly what we want to build. They did product discovery, talked to customers and then ended up sort of building the solution that fit the customer needs, which was a bit different from what we thought, but fairly close.

Speaker B: So the product team involvement is what, like just a few weeks after the acquisition is announced?

Speaker A: Yeah, basically two weeks.

Speaker B: Okay, okay, two weeks.

Speaker A: And then, um, of course what we did was that we took uh, the management of the company, um, because it's important for us, uh, we're a people company so it's important that people meet people. So they were invited to some, you know, we call them all hands, but basically meetings, um, where all everyone in superoffice is involved, uh, and attending. And then we introduced the company. They were allowed to tell their story. We sort of pitched the integration and the product portfolio, uh, together. Um, but the real sort of sales detailed processes haven't been started until now when we have the products on our price list. So this is now when we're now sort of engaging with customers. This is when we've really started to introduce, uh, two people going to the same sales meeting. Basically up until now it's been internal webinars, internal onboardings, uh, sort of one to many communication. Whereas as of now, since we are now sort of live with the product, we can actually sell M. This is when um, the different commercial teams are Also starting to speak sort of one to one and not want the money.

Speaker B: Okay. And any involvement of the sales team prior maybe more management in terms of pipe reviews for instance, you know, just to share if we have commandeers, does that happen before the product is ready and uh, to go to go to market or.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, of course. So we have uh, some uh, commercial uh, settings where you know we've defined what's the typical customer that would like this sort of product bundle. And uh, if I have uh, 300 customers on my customer list, which ones do I think run events, where should I sort of pitch this first? Um, and then it's you know, just uh, getting out there and learning by doing, starting to ask the right questions and then their company have of course told us which questions we should ask to sort of check if there's an interest, etc. So there's a lot of sort of soft onboarding and then really getting into the customer meetings and pitch the product. Yeah, um, it's happening now basically when we've launched uh, the product on the price list.

Speaker B: Okay. And usually do you, do you stick with the way the company you acquired are pricing or do you make changes? Maybe depends on the product I guess.

Speaker A: Yeah. So we've sticked with their pricing. What we've said is that um, we want um, or we're going to sell. Of course they have their own pricing and there's add ons and metered services and so forth. Uh, but what we've said is that for the customers that we sell to or cross sell to, uh, we're only going to offer them the basic solutions. So it's only going to be the packages and more users. And if our customers, you know, want more, for example, there's an SMS service and there's various add ons, uh, well then they need to go directly and buy it from the event management company. Because we want our people in our superoffice company to remain experts on CRM. And if we really mean that then they can't learn all the details about the other company's price list. Right. So they have only learned sort of the basics. And if the customer requires advanced, then we need to involve um, the experts which is uh, sort of inviting another person to the sales meeting and the person is from the other company basically.

Speaker B: Okay. At what point do you actually decide whether you acquire a product that's complementary for the ecosystem or you build it internally, directly?

Speaker A: It's also based on context. It depends uh, which is the most boring answer in the world, right. But, uh, it's a question where it's very hard to sort of give, give, uh, a black and white answer. I think, um, if the product sort of overlap is so good that you want to sell it to all your customers, then you might as well own it, right? Uh, if the overlap is so strong. But it also depends on the company, uh, at hand, right? If, if their business is, uh, very separate from yours, maybe they have other products that are not really interested and interesting. And then it's just this, this small specific product which you're interested in, then it also becomes a bit hard because then you have to carve it out and it's a bit more complex. So it really depends on their company or company, the product fit, but also the cultural fit. So what we saw, for example, with the event, uh, management company, now we're using that as an example a lot. But I think that also helps giving context to the listeners. But what we also saw there was that the cultural fit was very nice. We have the same, you know, we even had the same brand color, basically. Uh, so the culture aspect was quite natural. It's a natural addition to our culture and we don't have to change anything in the superoffice strategy. It's sort of, it's a perfect fit with what they stand for, what we stand for. We almost had the same sort of sentences. It was just more skewed toward events and more skewed towards sort of CRM in our case. Um, so it depends really on the company, what they do, what they offer, the products and the people. Because there's no, you know, if you could buy the perfect product, but if people have a completely different mindset than all your current, uh, employees, then it's not going to work. So it kind of needs to be a check on all boxes.

Speaker B: That's a point that I wanted to ask you how strong the cultural fit is of a criteria within the decision on making the acquisition. For instance, let's say if everything looks great on the paper, but you guys have doubt on cultural fit between both companies, do you still acquire or do you or do you not?

Speaker A: Well, I think this makes it harder to acquire, right? Because then you really need to be separate. Because it's very hard to have two cultures that don't fit and then trying to merge them is basically impossible. Right? I think it's hard to change how people behave and think and act. Uh, it's easy to change a product, but, uh, changing how people think is hard. Um, so if you want to acquire a company where the cultural differences are quite big, then if, uh, your plan is to merge it sounds like a really bad idea. Right. If the plan is to keep it completely separate, then it might still work. But then the plan is to actually keep these cultures uh, separate as well. Because it's impossible to merge two different cultures. Uh, it's probably the hardest project you can do.

Speaker B: That's usually where those acquisitions can fail as well. If you overlook this uh, cultural fit, especially for a merger, I guess because as you mentioned, it's two teams getting together. So if it's too distant, complicated after four and usually.

Speaker A: Right. Uh, an acquisition kind of, it makes sense. Uh, either you improve the top line or you improve the bottom line, or you ideally improve both. Uh, but if all your time is spent sort of trying to merge two cultures, you're never going to have time to either improve the top line or the bottom line. Right. You're going to be occupied with uh, having one to ones trying to help people working together. So I think um, yeah, it's very hard to sort of defend, uh, going for an acquisition where the cultural differences are too big.

Speaker B: M on, on our end we did uh, two years ago like an acquisition of uh, a French competitor. And uh, that's what. That was one of our learnings, that cultural aspect is so important and you know, trying to get people together, do things, you know, so that everyone feels that they belong at the earliest possible. It's the best honestly, because the longer you wait, you know, until like mingling people, really having them to do a lot of stuff, the more you delay this belonging feeling for everyone.

Speaker A: Yeah. And I think the best, uh, sort of check mark for us internally, Right. When we sort of felt that this was actually a really good idea.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Was when we had the first introduction of this event management company to our colleagues. Right. Basically the founder of the event management company had the one hour kind of internal webinar, talked about how uh, he started the company, what's the culture, what was the idea, what do they solve? And uh, in the chat, you know, we have some people in superoffice that's been here for longer than I have lived. So they've been there for more than 30, uh, 35 years. Uh, and when they said, you know, it could basically be ourselves saying the same words, just replace event with CRM and it could, it's kind of the same story. I think that's when we knew that uh, this is going to work out because then people are going to work together, they're going to be able to collab, collaborate, and really, you know, make one plus one equal a bit more than two.

Speaker B: No, absolutely. Thank you so much, Erlen, for everything you shared with us today. Before leaving the audience, I have this final oops, my bad moment. Whoops. My bad. So for those who tune in the first time, it's a few minutes at the end of each episode for the speaker to share a story related to international expansion, or maybe M and A. In our case, that didn't go as planned, so. So listeners can learn from it. So, Erlen, do you perhaps have a last story to share with us?

Speaker A: Yeah, I think, um, it's maybe, uh, not necessarily the most common sort of, um, use case you have under this talking, uh, point. But in Superoffice, we acquired a company in September, right? And the company was a partnership office. So we knew them quite well. We knew the people and the colleagues and the projects and everything. Um, and what happened actually was extremely tragic because two days after we signed the final agreement of the transfer of the money and so forth, um, the founder of the company and actually a former employee of SuperOffice, so also a close friend of many of, uh, the colleagues here, he was riding his bicycle on his way to work, ended, uh, up in a tragic, uh, accident and passed away. Uh, which was, of course, a huge shock for. For everyone, you know, mostly family and, um, colleagues. Um, but I think, you know, what we really, you know, it's. It's when those things happen that you really, really, you know, learn and you. You appreciate sort of the. The value of the people and the relationships you have. So I think from Superoffice, of course, uh, them being on the side that actually acquired this company, and then two days later, the founder of the company and the CEO and the main shareholder as well, yeah, uh, you know, passed away. It's, uh. It's seeing how. How people are able to sort of stand, uh, up, take responsibilities, really sort of embracing, uh, this new company. Because now we have. We had 20 colleagues, right? And they. They didn't have a boss anymore.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: So I think just, uh, making or seeing our people and our culture, really sort of embracing, uh, these new colleagues, making sure they felt, you know, warm welcome, uh, included in the family and really, you know, taking care of, both on a personal and professional level, I, uh, think was a good learning and also shows, you know, the importance of, uh, a good culture of fit. Right. Because if these people would have been completely different from our people, then that whole process would have been, you know, uh, even worse than it was because it was obviously horrible for everyone involved, but really seeing, you know, people coming together, um, making this, uh, the best it could be given the situation and the circumstances, was, yeah, really rewarding and really nice to see as a person sort of sitting, uh, on one side of the table. But then seeing people really come together and collaborate and, um, share the feelings and what we had was truly amazing.

Speaker B: The story you just shared just reemphasizes once more the importance of cultural fit within all these considerations. You know, doing like M and A. Yeah.

Speaker A: At the end of the day, right, it's, uh, even in the era of AI, it is still a people business. Right. It's people talking to people. Uh, there could be AI helping you build software and doing other things, but at the end of the day, it's people with relationships. And you need to take care of the relationships you have and really embrace the relationships you build.

Speaker B: Yep, yep. So agree with you. Thank you so much again, Erlen, for everything you shared today. That was so insightful. I guess just have to tell you until next time then.

Speaker A: Yeah, thanks. And likewise. Thanks for a very good, um, very good discussion.

Speaker B: Thanks a lot. Have a good one. Bye. Bye.

Speaker A: Cheers. Bye.

Speaker B: Thank you so much for listening until the end. If you liked this episode, don't forget to subscribe to not miss the next one and please share it with two people in your network. This is how this podcast gets more visibility and can help more of us to work on international markets. See you soon.

Speaker A: Um,