The Biggest Mistake Brands Make With Influencers | Kenzo Mizumoto

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Speaker C: Welcome to another edition of the Influence Global Podcast. Ah, and I'm really delighted to have with me today a, uh, really special guest, Kenzo.

Speaker D: So, uh, happy to be here.

Speaker C: Uh, so we're going to talk a lot about Creator economy. You are a very successful content creator. So we'll talk a little bit about your personal journey, but I think, um, it's going to be really interesting to see what your perception about, um, as we were saying earlier, marketing and, and how it's changing some of the things that, what makes your life easier and not. Yeah. So tell us a little bit about your background first. Actually, Kenzo, before we, before we have a bit of a deep dive into the subject.

Speaker D: Heritage is Japanese, but I'm Brazilian, so I was born and raised in Brazil. Um, I moved to the UK 1112 years ago. Like I was telling you, I just took my life in the UK test and I passed it.

Speaker C: Congratulations.

Speaker D: But, uh, yeah, but my grandparents were Japanese, but my parents were born in Brazil and I was born in Brazil and that's where Most of my, like, cultural identity is from, basically.

Speaker C: And so when did you get into the world of sort of content creation?

Speaker D: Do you remember 2020. 2021. When. When TikTok was becoming a thing. So when everyone was downloading TikTok, um, you had the first wave of people during 2020, and then you had a second wave in 2021. And that was me. That's when I was like. So at the time, I was working in the music industry. I used to work with royalties. Lots of spreadsheets, lots of, uh, reconciliation and all of that. I didn't really like my job. Um, and I wanted to create something for myself. So I tried creating, like, four YouTube channels not related to comedy or anything like that. They all failed. I tried creating a website. It failed. None of them worked. But I always learned something, you know, it's always about them.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker D: And then I was like, you know what? Let me try this TikTok thing. So I just started making videos there and posting videos and gained some traction. Nothing crazy, but I was like, this is, like, a lot of fun, so let me just try to do more. So I was just doing and doing it, and I was posting, making videos, and learning, and I was like, I kind of want to do this, so I'm going to. I'm going to quit my job. But initially, I, uh, went to my parents, and my parents are doctors, by the way. I was like, I'm going to quit my job. My job to become an influencer. And they're like, no, you are not.

Speaker C: I could not imagine that conversation.

Speaker D: You are not. I was like, okay, all right. So I kept working, kept growing my pages, and I saved, uh, enough money to support me for, like, six months. And then I was like, no, I'm going to. I'm going to do this also. I was like, I was miserable in my job. I was just like, in 2021 as well, you know, like, we're all stuck at home. I wasn't happy with my job. I was like, man, I'm just something else, you know? And then I was like. And then I went to my parents again a second time. I was like, I'm going to quit. I don't care what you guys say, I'm gonna do it. I have saved enough money and I'm gonna do it. And they were like, okay. And I was like, wait, how come you're not gonna give me any flack for this now? And they were like, because now you have a plan M. Now you have a plan. So, uh, yeah.

Speaker C: So now if we roll on today, you've got pretty much close to a million followers.

Speaker D: Uh, yeah, I think I passed a million, like, recently.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker D: Ah, wow, that is fantastic. That's across all social media, YouTube, TikTok and Instagram. I'm not on Snapchat.

Speaker C: YouTube being your biggest.

Speaker D: No, TikTok being your biggest. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker C: And so now you've doubled down on comedy, have you? And why did you. Did you. Did that come as. As naturally or did you say, no, I wanna, uh, yeah, it, um, come

Speaker D: fairly naturally, um, initially when you. I think that anytime that you have someone that is trying to create content and post content, well, we don't really know what to do. Just try many different things in many different formats. So that's what I did at first until I was like, you know, comedy and comedy videos and funny videos are the ones that I like to make the most, and they are the ones that people seem to like the most as well, you know, so it's like, okay, let me just double down on that one and just like really focus on that and get better at it, you know? So over the years, I've taken, um, acting classes, comedy, script writing classes, improv classes. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker C: Wow.

Speaker D: I'm a very, like, craftsmanship focus kind of person. Maybe it's the Japanese in me, you know, Maybe. Yeah, exactly, exactly. So I'm like, okay, if I'm, if I'm making these videos, let me get good at acting, let me get good at script writing, let me get good at editing. And I didn't know how to edit videos. I had to learn everything by scratch, you know, from the school of YouTube. And that's what I did. And comedy. And it's the, the kind of videos that I like to make. You know, me personally, those are the videos that I like to make.

Speaker C: Uh, and because, of course, you're getting so much traction and views, that in itself is appealing to brands, they want to connect with you and they want to, uh, find specific genres that are going to help them stand out in their audience. So now you've. I know you've worked for brands like Lego, Disney, and these are substantial brands.

Speaker D: Yeah, yeah, they are incredible brands. And I loved working with them. And I think for me, um, as you know, in marketing, you always have the funnel, you know, so, like, you have the awareness, you have the conversion people and you have those different strategies. Um, I have heard, like, marketers say that the funnel is gone because now, especially with social media and TikTok live shop and all of those things, it's just like, it's so fast from awareness to conversion. It's just like, like that.

Speaker C: Well, TikTok shop was Pioneers in that.

Speaker D: Yeah, exactly. Because if think of the fact that

Speaker C: you go into a typical retail shop and you're going to look at some

Speaker D: clothes, you're just browsing, trying them on. Not sure.

Speaker C: So much, so much choice there. Whereas, of course, if you've. If you see a content creator that looks like you and is creating the

Speaker D: right type of content, there's a link right there.

Speaker C: Absolutely.

Speaker D: And you can just click on the link and buy it. This is crazy. So for so going back to the brands, a lot of the brands that come to. To me, to work with me is, um, our brands that want the. They want a comedy spin to their products or to their campaign. So when you have those brands running influencer campaigns, they're like, all right, we need 10 influencers for this specific product in this campaign. Uh, we're going to get the beauty people, we're going to get the fitness people, but we also want a touch of comedy, you know, and that's where I come in. M and I know that usually with comedy, we are more on the awareness part of the funnel.

Speaker C: Sure.

Speaker D: You know, we are the ones that are not necessarily going to convert as much compared to the makeup influencer or beauty influencer. They're like, this is the product and this is why you should buy it. But we are more of the awareness and we're going to show your product to a lot of people in a very funny and engaging way like that.

Speaker A: Ah.

Speaker C: So in a way, it's quite a good message, um, that you're saying to brands rather than double down just on that particular media.

Speaker D: Yeah.

Speaker C: Maybe the conversion to people. Yeah. Think about a mix of. Mix of creators that almost do different things.

Speaker D: Exactly. But I think it's. It's hard because I feel like m. The majority of the brands and because everything's so new, they expect us, they expect all of us content creators to be every single part of the funnel. Um, they expect us to be the awareness and the conversion, you know, whereas in reality, depending on the kind of content that you make, it's going to be different things.

Speaker C: That's ironic, Kendo, because, you know, you think about how much money they'll spend on television ads or billboard ads. Ads. It's a huge amount of investment.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: Uh, and, you know, just because you see something on a billboard or on a tv, we don't rush out and go and buy it because it's so important in building the brand. So why the expectation with content creators? You know, and I think it's probably because they. They see, you know, so many creators that are going viral or, uh, but in the grand scheme of things, it's a relatively small percentage that is the big time because there's obviously a lot more creators now than ever.

Speaker D: Yeah.

Speaker C: Um, so, yeah, um, what do you think, um, what do you think are some of the real, uh, criteria in being a successful comedy content creator? If you were effectively educating your younger self, what would you say to them on. On their journey upwards?

Speaker D: I wouldn't say necessarily just comedy, but just like a content creator.

Speaker A: Um,

Speaker D: first of all, if you're starting, just try as many different things. And I think that when you're starting, you're trying to make things that you think people want to watch. And I don't think that's the right approach. I think the right approach is for you to make things that you want to watch, because people don't know what they want to watch until they see it. But you have to be the one making the videos that are like, okay, I like the videos that that guy makes. So let me try to make something like that because this is something that I would like to watch myself. And I think you just go from there. And that is something that I actually have to remind myself up until, like, still today.

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker D: Because I see what my peers are doing, I see what other people are doing. I'm like, um, oh, maybe I should be doing that, or maybe I should be doing this because it's gaining traction and all of that. But at the end of the day, I'm like, no, no, no, hold, um, on, let me strip it back. And like, okay, I want to make these videos because this is the kind of video that I would like to see on my feed. Quiet.

Speaker C: You know, you need to be true to yourself.

Speaker D: You need to be true to yourself. And it's hard when you see so many different possibilities, other people doing other things.

Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, I guess you. One of the things that you said at the beginning is that you failed at some of these things.

Speaker D: I did.

Speaker C: And in a way, I always say to. To emerging creators, you know, test and learn. Uh, but be patient.

Speaker D: Yeah.

Speaker B: 100.

Speaker D: No one wants to be patient anymore. I love it.

Speaker C: I love it. Um, so let's talk about some of these videos because, um, you know, you were just saying earlier that you. You've taken a lot of time and effort in really owning your craft. Yeah. Um, what are some of the uh, successes that you've seen from your videos. What's the. Well, I guess what's the output, uh, has been.

Speaker D: And, um, I think I can only speak, uh, from my experience as a comedy content creator. But for me, it's the videos that are engaging in a way that people want to watch. And people leave the video with a good feeling. Right. That's what I'm always chasing. It's like, you finished watching my video, you had a good laugh, and you're like, oh, this was nice. Because so much on social media you watch and you're like, oh, man, I feel awful. You know what I mean? So it's like, for me, that's what has worked. Uh, me chasing that specific feeling. But also I try to make things that I'm not seeing other people making. So a lot of the ideas that I have, I'm like, I like this idea, but I feel like I've seen this idea too much. I don't want to do, uh, that.

Speaker C: And I love that because I think otherwise you become sort of copy paste.

Speaker D: Exactly. And there's no fun.

Speaker C: And one of the things that's really fascinating me about entertainment and it's how we watch, like, Amazon prime and Netflix, is episodal content. And I wondered whether or not we're going to see a lot more of this develop where people are, um, you know, it becomes a mini series.

Speaker D: Yeah. You have. I actually discovered this week a page, um, called Roomies, Roomies, Roomies. And it's basically, it's episodic content and it's about these flatmates in New York. And every single episode is a different story about these flatmates and them living in. It's like modern day friends. It's literally modern day friends, but for social media. So each video is like a minute, two minutes long. And they're all about different stories, but they are all, like, connected to each other. So a little bit like the short dramas that we're seeing right now happening. And that. That was really good. Like, I binge watched all of their videos and it was just like that.

Speaker C: Wow. Exactly. Binge watch.

Speaker D: Yeah.

Speaker C: So I think, because. Because, you know, you see something funny or entertaining. Yeah. Uh, or gripping.

Speaker D: Yeah.

Speaker C: And I think it's also important for the creator to leave to know, in a way, you. You're creating, like, mini films, aren't you? In some ways.

Speaker D: Yeah.

Speaker C: Yeah. Uh, and being able to then say, uh, the start point, the middle, and then the importance of that cliffhanger. So what's going to happen next is. Or my Next video M. Or whatever.

Speaker D: Yeah, so. But I, I personally, I don't do episodic content. I don't do like. Um.

Speaker C: Would you. You wouldn't.

Speaker D: I. No, I would, but I'm not doing it right now.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker D: I like to work on separate ideas and I have a lot of people always asking, like, I'll make a part 2 of this video or that video. Where. And I don't.

Speaker C: What's been one of the, the big best videos that you've really enjoyed? That's gone. That's done really well.

Speaker D: I have a video that I posted two years ago and it's still gaining traction on YouTube, which was about, um, Christmas gift gift ideas for guys. Um, and it's just still there. And I don't know, I, uh, think it's just a really good list that people go back to. And it's just like me saying all of these different ideas in a funny way, of course, of things that guys, at least guys my age would like to get.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker D: So a lot of toys, a lot of cool things, you know, like a flamethrower and things like that.

Speaker C: So, I mean, what's your thoughts about how the influencer marketing creator economy is emerging?

Speaker D: Oh, my God.

Speaker C: I mean, I know you said to me and, uh, you just recently attended,

Speaker D: uh, Advertising Week and you had some thoughts.

Speaker C: What do you think?

Speaker D: How many, how much time do we have?

Speaker C: Got?

Speaker D: 15 minutes. Um, so I went to Advertising Week yesterday, right. And I thought it was really interesting from a content creator point of view. Um, basically it's, you know, it's mostly for marketers and it had some content creators there, you know, but it's mostly for marketers. And I thought it was fascinating. Two things. First is how AI was such a big, like, topic. Like a few. I felt like every panel everyone was talking about AI, but in a way that made me happy a little bit because they were talking about AI as a, as an analyzing tool, as a KPI predictor tool, not necessarily as a replacement for content creators. I didn't really see brands talking about using AI generated content instead of using like, human made content. I hate that we have to say that now. Like human made.

Speaker C: Yeah. Oh, God.

Speaker D: But also a lot of the brands yesterday were like, oh, because we had this successful campaign and they were all mentioning human content creators. They were not mentioning, like, AI content creators, you know, and that, that to me, I was like, okay, I still have some time.

Speaker C: Well, if you think, if you think about it, Kenzo, you know, influence influences the embodiment of influences. About trust and authenticity. And I know those are somewhat overused words, but it is the reason why people follow creators.

Speaker D: But do you feel like there's a future where brands are like majority using AI generated content?

Speaker C: Um, well, I mean if you look at what's on the, um, on social media at the moment, the amount of AI content generally is a record level. Um, and it's because one of the things that I worry about is, is whether or not we look at something, we believe it and then we don't know that it's been generated by AI. So then we share it. So then we live in this world of, of, you know, unreal. And then it's. Can we, we're already questioning some people and we think some of those stories. Is that, is that real? Yeah, yeah. I know I've probably shared something from somebody. Uh, and because it's come from me, I like to think I'm a reasonably respectful person. Um, and therefore people say, ah, well, it's come from Gordon. It's got to be respect.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: Ah, it's got to be um, real.

Speaker D: Yeah.

Speaker C: And of course it might not. And of course that's how elections are going to be.

Speaker D: Oh my God, elections.

Speaker C: Can you imagine?

Speaker D: You know, it's going to be crazy. I feel like it's changing all the time.

Speaker C: But I do think AI is going to have a profound impact on um, ah, you know, um, influencer discovery, influencer data.

Speaker D: Yeah.

Speaker C: Analytics as much as anything else.

Speaker D: Yeah. But the thing that I find tricky about that is that for example, if you use AI tools to analyze best performing videos. So like, oh, you analyze all of the past performing videos and these are the videos that did well, you don't really have a lot of room for exploring new ideas. You know what I mean? And again, I get it that from a brand point of view you want to be safe because you're spending your like thousands of ad dollars or pounds and you want it to convert, you want it to do well. You don't want to take a risk and be like, oh, here's a new idea that I've just thought about and we're not sure if it's going to work, you know, so I get that. But at the same time, you see the biggest success stories that you see now in marketing are from the brands that are doing something that has not been done before. Isn't that right?

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker D: Isn't that right? Because they're taking huge risks on like, let's try to do this thing. No one's doing that. But let's try to do it and see if it works. And it works. I mean I also think some of

Speaker C: the content that is trying to make a difference to society in some shape or form. Dove, of course has pioneered with real beauty so that it isn't just, you know. And I noticed amongst Gen Z's, we're talking about this the other day actually, uh, record levels of Gen Zs, uh, are using ad blockers because they don't want their content disturbed.

Speaker D: Uh, bombarded by ads.

Speaker C: Exactly.

Speaker D: Bombarded by ads. Yeah.

Speaker C: But you see, this is why I think influencer marketing is, can work really well because you can bring a brand story into something that's really cool, entertaining and ah, funny that doesn't feel, feel

Speaker D: like an ad, but that is if the brand is willing to do that.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker D: Because I, I, I get in a lot of discussions, I swear to God, I get in a lot of discussions with, with brands about this because I have worked with brands that are like, you have to show our product and mention our product within the first five seconds. Like guys, if I do that, people are just gonna scroll past it.

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker D: We are tired of seeing ads, ah, on social media. Like if I do that, they're just gonna. Or would you rather that I take the time to make a good video and then I mention the product or the brand in like second 40 or second 50? And then when they see the product it has a bigger impact on their, on how they perceive the product.

Speaker C: Yeah, of course, of course. And at the end of the day, you know, they're tapping into you. Not just because of your audience.

Speaker D: Yeah.

Speaker C: But because of your creative, uh, input, your skill and uh, you know, we've had these discussions before with creators and sometimes they'll say no, if you want me to be so prescriptive, then actually this is um, it's not a work for me. And also I've got um, uh, my audience follow me. Because of the content that they create.

Speaker D: Yeah.

Speaker C: I don't want to sell them out to something that feels not right.

Speaker D: Yeah. What I tell brands a lot of the times is that they have to remember that we are also brands. You are. We are also brands. We have our own tone of voice, we have our own way of delivering the content or the video. So we kind of have to meet halfway.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker D: But it is hard for me to say that to brands when I'm like saying all of these things about how I think the video should be made, should be done. And then you have the board of directors and the VPs in the company? Like, no. So what can I say? It's really tricky, but I think we're all learning. I think it's been changing a lot, especially since like 2019, 2018, when they used to hire influencers as just like, um, ad space. And now they're giving us a little bit more freedom to come up with these concepts that, ah, it's a little bit more, um, integrated with the way that we make videos.

Speaker C: What do you think is annoying that some brands do, and we talked about one in the inflexibility. But what would you say is a real challenge or that you'd like to rectify? Uh, some. And it might be a long list, I don't know. But I know sometimes it's about giving you very short notice to turn content around, but love to get some more thoughts from you.

Speaker D: I think it's that I understand they have deadlines and all of that, but I think that for me, I can only see as a comedy content creator, my videos take time to make, my videos take time to write. I'm not a beauty content creator or a fashion content creator that I can make the videos and that are fairly straightforward and really quickly. And I think they treat us, they treat all content creators like that, you know, like, ah, oh, everyone, they can just make videos just like that. It's super quick, you know, just like film, film, film. That's it. B roll, B roll. Do a voiceover and that's it. You know, Whereas for me, it's like, no, guys, I. I need time. I need time. Like, I've had instances in. Instances in past where I had to film in location with a brand and they gave me like three hours. I take a whole day, if not two days to film my videos.

Speaker B: Wow.

Speaker D: And I had to be there like, you know, and act, you know. So, yeah, of course, that is something that I wish they understood a little bit more. Especially with the comedy content creators or at least the content creators that you can see that they put more effort and time into their videos.

Speaker C: Is that.

Speaker D: Allow us a little bit more time, you know, like, you can't tell us like, we need this by tomorrow. No, no, guys, it's, it's. I can do it, but give me a little bit of fl.

Speaker C: What do you think generally of the way that you are briefed?

Speaker D: You.

Speaker C: I mean, I'm guessing you get some, some great briefs and you get others that are a bit woolly. What would you say? How can you help brands be better at that?

Speaker D: Um, keep the brief short. I don't need a 50 page brief on your brand, tone of voice and the campaign and all of that. I'm like this is the campaign, this is the idea. Here are some examples to your thing, do's and don'ts do your thing, you know. But I feel like they are starting to learn more about that and also briefs the they are sent to all of the content creators. But again if I get the same brief as the beauty content creator, which we're not going to be doing the same ideas, you know, and working on the same videos. So I don't need it to be tailored but I just need them to like keep it specific and provide examples. That always helps.

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, absolutely. And in terms of measurement and performance because I often think that um, there's a lot left on the table sometimes. You alluded to it earlier, the fact that one of my videos uh, about Christmas is still generating. So you know there's a lot that. Whereas if you think about Billboard, it starts and finishes on a certain day a TV app, uh, whereas your, your content is online, it is still generating views and interest.

Speaker D: That is something that I feel like you could talk to brands about. You know, like how is the, how are the videos that you guys posted last year with influencers performing? And I don't think they do that. I don't think they check that.

Speaker C: I, I feel quite strongly about it. I feel that there is still huge amount of value that brands are generating from creator content. Uh, and I, I often feel that the um, uh, the creators uh, is getting short change as a result.

Speaker D: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker C: So um, yeah, certainly one to consider. So future for you, what does it look like? What's in the pipeline?

Speaker D: I am uh, trying to get more into film and acting. I work with an acting coach. I do short courses. Um, I've taken a short course errata last year. I'm doing another one this year.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker D: Because my heart is in like in the craft of making videos and film and things like that. So that's where I wanna, that's what I want to do more. I want to keep growing my accounts of course. And I'm never gonna stop doing the social media stuff also it pays m my bills. Yeah. But I do want to try to do more of like film and TV and uh, things like that because just I just love uh, the craft and all of that.

Speaker C: Wonderful. Also thank you so much for having a chat with me today. It's been really lovely. Uh, and we've obviously got common interest in Portuguese as well. So uh, thank you Kenzo thank you, Gordon.

Speaker D: Yeah, mhm.

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