Kareem Rahma on building a talk show empire and the business behind his viral shows

Speaker A: Mhm. Subway Takes is an entertainment driven talk show.

Speaker B: Wouldn't Trump be fun at this?

Speaker A: He would be the funniest person in the world.

Speaker B: Like he was born for this.

Speaker A: I've been faced with the dilemma in my mind. It hasn't actually happened. But that's a question that I ask myself often, is I'm like, ah, that's gonna be like a difficult no because I know how fun it will be.

Speaker C: When you think of a talk show, what do you picture? You probably picture a, ah, telet polygenic host, maybe a comedian, maybe a journalist. If they're particularly charismatic, probably you think of cameras, big lights, a studio audience and a uh, celebrity guest on a press tour doing a five minute interview before the commercial break. Most importantly, the program you're thinking of and picturing in your mind is probably on television late at night or sometime during the middle of the day. What Kareem Ramba Bet several years ago when launching Subway Takes was you didn't really need many of those things to make a successful and interesting talk show in the2020s. All you really needed was an engaging host, an interesting guest, a format, and uh, just a general understanding that in a world where the screens that we engage with most are the ones that we carry in our pockets every day, a talk show should really be made with those delivery systems in mind. Now Subway Takes is part of an emerging class of new shows that are reinventing the talk show format for the modern media age. Think shows like Hot Ones, where celebrity guests eat increasingly spicy wings while talking to a relatively kind of average chill guy, for lack of a better description. Or the Adam Friedland show, which is kind of both a send up and an homage to the late night talk shows that kind of defined the format in the 80s and 90s. This week Ben and I sat down with Kareem to talk about reinventing the talk show for the Tick Tock era. How he keeps the show fresh after nearly 800 episodes. How he keeps from getting bored by doing the same thing over and over. We talked to him about his other hit show, Keep the Meter Running, the new season of that for YouTube. We asked him about his scrapped interview with Kamala Harrison, of course, what he would do if Donald Trump wanted to come on his show. That's something that he's actually thought about. We thought it was a really engaging and interesting conversation and we got into a lot of things with Kareem. It's actually one of our longest episodes, I think maybe ever because we were just enjoying the conversation so much. But we have to take a short break. We'll be right back with Kareem Rama after this.

Speaker D: Hi, I'm Joshua Spania, VP of Marketing at Google. And you might assume I have all the answers when it comes to marketing. The truth, I'm just as curious to learn discover the answers to everything as everyone else. We are living through a total reset of our, uh, marketing industry. The old maps don't work, which means we get to chart a new path forward. It's dynamic, it's fast paced, and honestly, there's never been a more exciting time to be in marketing. That is why we've started a new podcast, Frontier cmo. It's from Think with Google, and I promise it's not just a bunch of corporate waffle. I'm sitting down with people who really know what's going on, CMOs, creators, technologists, the lot. And we're having a proper unfiltered chat about what's working and quite frankly, what isn't. These are your notes from the Frontier. So do me a favor, search for Frontier CMO wherever you get your podcasts or watch us and subscribe on YouTube.

Speaker C: Kareem, thank you so much for joining us. Keep the Meter Running was kind of your first successful show, social media show, short form show. Why did you decide to bring it back?

Speaker A: Short form, unscripted vertical video content. That's what I call it. That's the industry that I work in. I work in short. And if you want to add viral to it, you can. Um, you know, I started that show and it really kicked off my career in a big way. It was the first project that got attention. It was ripe for the moment where, you know, everyone was scrolling on their phones and they still are. Uh, but at the time no one was really making shows. There was not this blanketing of content in the feed. And, uh, my friend Adam, who produces now the long form show and also produces the short form show, and it was really his hypothesis that the phone was the new tv. And I had always been wanting to break into the entertainment industry in either film or television. So this idea that I could create a TV show and then just make it myself and distribute it myself, um, on short form platforms was really appealing to me because I was kind of sick and tired of waiting around. I was 34 or 5 years old. I didn't have a lot of time left. I'm still here, guys. I'm still here, still kicking. Um, but it was just like such a beautiful reception to the project. Like literally the next day after we Posted the first episode. I go to my daily bodega, and the bodega guy's like, you look familiar. And I'm like, yeah, I literally come here every day. He's like, no, no, no, no. I've seen you somewhere. And I'm like, I am a customer. He's like, oh, you're the taxi guy. And it was just like a real moment of connection where I realized that it wasn't just going viral, but it was connecting with people in a way that I think is rare when it comes to, like, viral content. And so, years later, you know, I have grown Subway takes a different show into this massive phenomena. But I felt like I still had an. An unfinished business with Keep the meter running, because I abandoned that project in order to, uh, package it for film and television or for. For television. And the packaging process took so long, all the pitches, you know, I'd set a pitch for right now, it's July. We'd set a pitch for August 2027. And I was just like, I can't do this anymore. And so when the opportunity came to, like, put it on YouTube, but make it a television show, I said, you know what? I think this might be the future again, so let's do it.

Speaker C: So we want to ask a little bit about that and some of the logistics. This is a media show, after all. We can. Can kind of get into it. But I. I want to ask about just kind of the basics of the show, which, for those in the audience who haven't seen this, I mean, every. I think everybody has seen Subway Takes. But for those in the audience who haven't seen this show, it's basically like 30 minutes of you talk interviewing a cab driver, essentially, uh, essentially about their day and about their life and their favorite place to go in the city. I. I guess what I'm kind of curious about is, like, how do you. How do you find these specific cab drivers? Is it like, casting?

Speaker A: So in the first, uh, run of the show, when we were doing the short form show, I would legitimately just go outside, inhale cabs until somebody said yes. And it was really funny because I'd be like, hey, I'm making the show. Blah, blah, blah. It's a TV show. They'd say no. And then the minute I said, oh, it's a TikTok show, they'd go get in the car. You know, it was. It was this. And I. I found it also was happening at the restaurants. If I went to a restaurant, I'd be like, can we shoot and they'd be like, what's it for? I'd go, TikTok. They'd go, sit down. Yeah, of course, you know, it was really fascinating because in television they're going to ask for permits and a fee and this and that and this. And when we were just, you know, I also have like a pretty small crew, so we didn't take up too much room or make too much noise, and they would just say yes. In this new version of the show, which is 30 minutes, we actually do cast the drivers in advance. And we have a casting director. Her name is Harley Shaw. She's amazing. She's, you know, cast, um, Neighbors on hbo. She's cast a bunch of other projects. And she went out and legitimately took 100 cab rides and would interview the drivers and put together these little self tapes. And for me, it was really important to show the breadth of, uh, the experience of being a cab driver in New York City. It's really easy to make a show that's like trauma porn. And it's just, I'm in debt, I'm sad, I'm an immigrant, I send all my money back home. That exists, and it's a very real thing. But at the same time, there are different dynamics at play where people are, you know, aspiring. Uh, so many of them remind me of millennials, even if they're not, but they're like, yeah, taxi driving, that's my side job. Like, I'm really a talent manager or I'm really a playwright, or I really

Speaker B: like the idea that all millennials are really taxi drivers. There's like, something there.

Speaker A: It's really interesting because, you know, the, the world flattens working class people into one dimensional beings. And I also think that the Internet flattens people into one dimensional beings. You know, like, Subway Takes Guy is a version of me, and I want to explore another version of me, which is Keep the Meter Running Guy, or more personally, myself. Um, but, yeah, the casting process. So I, you know, we went through the tapes and it was really based on like, uh, age, ethnicity, story. You know, are they a happy character? Are they a sad character? Are they more of an intellectual character? Are they just a funny person and also understanding kind of what their interests were? Right. There's an episode that we have with, uh, this Korean driver named Young Han. And he was like, I like being in nature. I want to go hiking in Bear Mountain, which is an hour outside of the city. And I was like, oh, I haven't heard that before. There was another guy that was like, let Me take you fishing. And I was like, that's really interesting. Like, those were two nature, um, opportunities that, um, we could go with. So it was really a mix of, like, what would make the show interesting to watch.

Speaker C: One thing that I did notice watching several episodes of Keep the Meter Running is it is kind of a different Persona. I feel like, you know, you are not jumping in to necessarily disagree with these people. It's definitely more of a conversation. It feels almost like a little bit more. I don't want to say low energy because obviously of, uh, you know, plenty of personality, but it's definitely. You definitely come off as a little bit more laid back. Is that intentional?

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, that show, Keep the Meter Running is more just me being me. Like, that's my personality. I am easygoing, I am chill. I do just. I'm along for the ride oftentimes in everything. You know, if a friend is like, do you want to go run errands with me? I'm like, I'm sure, you know, like, that's who I am. I'm. I'm more of just a person that wants to exist in other people's universes. Subway Takes is an entertainment driven talk show. It's based on disagreement, um, or just intense agreement. So I bump up my character by 20% or 30% in that show to make it feel engaging. And I'm very clear that this is a comedy show. These takes literally don't matter. Uh, my opinion doesn't matter. The 100% agree or 100% disagreement. It doesn't matter. It's not like a proper. It's not a Charlie Kirk show. I don't care about, like the, where we get, you know, um, so it's, it's. Yeah, that is like I wanted with, with Keep the Meter Running, it is a more personal show. Like, it is me exploring myself. Uh, you know, the, the genesis of the idea was that my father passed away, which is true. And, uh, and you know, I kind of missed out on the father figure, um, as you're kind of morphing into a man. Right. So my father passed away when I was 21, and that's a pivotal time to like, learn how to be a man. Like a real man, not. Not like a boy. And so I found myself always gravitating towards older men for advice. And oftentimes that would happen in the back of a taxi. And so the show's really about me learning how to be a better friend, a better father, a better husband, a better, um, just citizen of the world. And I'm absorbing all of these kind of life lessons from different various men who have different life experiences, but all remind me of my dad in a way. You know, I'm kind of gathering the pieces and trying to, you know, fill the hole, uh, in my heart.

Speaker B: I watched Love the Bear Mountain episode, and you came up at Vice. And there's things about it that remind me of Vice. The kind of veride quality and the spontaneity and the kind of ordinary, interesting, rich characters, obviously, like, it's warmer, it's more. It's kinder than Vice. But I'm curious, actually, more in terms of almost the format. Vice made a bunch, a lot of the best stuff on the Internet in the 2015, in mid 2010s, could not build a business out of it. And I think from my position, I was at BuzzFeed at the time, there was a sense of, like, you know what? You just can't spend more than $200 on a video or you can go bankrupt. Um, and like, Vice was sort of like, spending 40,000 bucks on these incredible videos and. And went bankrupt. And do you feel like the. Either the sort of algorithmic ecosystem or the commercial ecosystem is, like, kind of, like, ready for this stuff in a way that it wasn't including when it went back in 2022 when you first launched this show?

Speaker A: Well, number one, I've been following your work for a really long time, and I've always enjoyed reading your article. No, I've enjoyed all of it. Uh, so just why? And because we're talking to a media audience.

Speaker C: You've enjoyed all. You've enjoyed all of it. Not nobody enjoyed all of it.

Speaker A: Yeah, I was never, you know, I

Speaker B: was never written about Kur him.

Speaker A: Exactly. So I've enjoyed watching. Uh, you know, sometimes you're wrong, but, you know, that's okay. Uh, here's what I'll say about Vice. I think Vice had a tremendous business when I was there. It was the minute that they got ahead of their skis and decided to Launch a, uh, TV channel that has 24. 7 programming. That is when things, in my opinion, started going downhill. And it's also this endless fundraising that didn't need to happen because there were several profitable parts of the business. Uh, whether that be Vice on hbo, which was a profitable part of the business. The Internet business, you know, the YouTube business that was profitable. They really started getting into trouble when they, like, went too big in a weird direction. You know, Shane's always talking about, like, TVs for losers. Were the new TV and then eventually being like, we need to start a TV channel was a really horrible decision. And I think if they would have stayed in the lane that they were in and done the branded content stuff, done the, the series that they were doing, like you were saying, that are amazing and cost $40,000 an episode. But it's fine because Jack Daniels is paying for it. You know, it, it made a lot of sense in that business. And uh, and I think what I've realized is that uh, there's kind of a gap. You know, there's a void that needs to be filled, which is individuals, creators as their own little vices, right? Because there's so much content. There's a lot of $200 videos, there's a lot of $0 videos, there's a lot of thousand dollar videos, there's not a lot of $40,000 videos, and then

Speaker B: there's $10 million videos that we call movies. And there's nothing. Right. There's a huge gap in between.

Speaker A: Well, I keep saying that whoever makes vice style content on their own like that is, that's I think, going to be the sweet spot of this next television moment. It's gonna be people like me investing cash, like a lot of it. Like my show does cost close to that number, sometimes more per episode. And it is what it is. I'm willing to spend it because it's the best show possible. I pay a lot of people. If you look at the credits, it's amazing. Every time I look at the credits, I'm proud of that. I've employed all of these people. Like literally I'm like, this is. There's 30 people in the credits that have all gotten paid and they don't have jobs right now. And a lot of them, ah, were waiting out for tv. So many people waiting for TV to call. And I go, you don't understand. I am giving you a TV job right now, today. And you will get paid the same. Like, you know, reality, uh, tv, nonfiction, doc rates are, you know, a lot lower than scripted, but my rates are comparable.

Speaker B: But so have you just then reinvented reality tv or is this in some like, harder to put your finger on cultural aesthetic? Way more like the Internet.

Speaker A: I think it's a hybrid, I think format driven series. They're, you know, like Jackass is a format, it's a loose format and it's an awesome format, but it is very, it connects with audiences and it's the people in the show and it's what they're doing. And it's the format and it's the production style and it's the music. In the same way that. That, uh, like, Jackass would work on YouTube. Like, there can be a new. And I'm actually hoping that they figure it out. And, like, some kids go, this is cool. Like, we'll. We'll do this and.

Speaker C: But you kind of do see that a little bit with, like, you know, I mean, it's not necessarily the same, but, like, the Nelk Boys kind of were essentially doing that, right? Like, essentially like a Prank show on YouTube. It's obviously not as extreme, and it's weirdly now kind of political, but it was. I feel like that essentially.

Speaker A: Right. I think what's missing is heart, and I think that is really what I'm pushing towards in this, is that Nelk Boys were doing it for virality from day one. They're like, let's go viral. Let's be huge YouTubers. Jackass was like, let's make up, like art. It's very. So dumb. But you can tell that there's heart in it and there's also brain. There's brain in it. Like, they're thinking, they're making things that are entertaining and also safe and not going to, like, harm other people. It's not praying. It's like, you know, it's just. I think the heart is missing from YouTube and from all the platforms. And I'm always telling, you know, younger people, because I'm old, I'm 40, I don't belong in this business. Uh, Ben's like, oh, I'm always telling younger people that when they ask for advice, I'm always telling them that the intention should not be virality. That should. That should be the outcome. If you make something good enough and personal enough and interesting enough, the. That should be the intention, and the outcome will be the virality. And sometimes it won't happen.

Speaker C: Well, Kareem, I want to ask you about that, though, because you. You worked essentially in. In audience for Vice, so you, like, paid attention to a lot of this stuff closely. Do you feel like you've kind of just like, absorbed the lessons of how to go viral, how to do well on the Internet, so you don't really need to think about it because you kind of know what's going to do well. How are you thinking about that? Why do you think that Subway Takes and Keep the Meter Running have done well? And have they benefited from your understanding of how the Internet works, how algorithms work?

Speaker A: Uh, well, you know, there are a lot of Failures as well. Like, I had another show that I really loved. It was just too early, and it was called Stupid Studies. And I was like, you know what? Let me try to be the trevor Noah of TikTok. And it would be. And now people do do that, right? It's like, almost the whole Internet is like, guys with microphones. But I built a set in my kitchen out of cardboard, uh, because I wanted to get over, like, being lazy. So I was like, if I roll out of bed and walk into my kitchen and there's a set there, I will make a video. This was before Keep the Meter Running. And I think people didn't really. Like, there was no shows at all, and no one was ready for that. And so that failed. Um, there was this other show called the Diner show that was a standup show and a D that failed. And for me, again, it's about pursuing what I think are good ideas. And I think they're good ideas until the minute we're about to shoot. And then I go, this is such a stupid idea. Why am I doing this? This is a horrible idea. It's not gonna work. And that's a good feeling to have. And then you push through, and in the edit, you start seeing something great. And I will say, you know, it's old, but it's like, the consistency is key. Um, and you gotta keep doing it before it works out. I've been really lucky with my two formats that they've been hits immediately. But to answer your question without rambling, which I've already done, is you can ramble. It's a podcast I don't like. Again, I don't think of the viral elements of the show. It's not genetically modified content. It's not a gmo. It's literally, when I was designing Subway Takes, I wasn't in a lab being like, oh, let me look at, you know, this viral video, and, oh, I'll 100% agree. And that will make people angry. You know, that happened. You know, when I did that, that was a natural reaction to the first video. So I interviewed my friend Anthony, who also is a shooter on the show at the time. What's your take? He said, vertical video has ruined America. And I said, 100% disagree. And in that moment, you know, he got a little angry. And then. But in jest, and then I go, cool, I'm just gonna do that in every episode. I'm gonna agree or disagree. But it wasn't because it was gonna m. You know? You know what I mean? Like, there's not a lab that I'm in cooking up the viral elements of it.

Speaker B: Do you think that's like the Internet maturing or this media space maturing, that some of that concocted stuff isn't working as well anymore or something? I don't know. I mean, as you say it, that is what I like about your work, is that it's, uh. I don't know, it just feels less. Less of a trick than so much of what you see in the feed. But maybe that's changing.

Speaker A: No, I think that with the rise of AI, the rise of slop, the saturation, uh, of content that's overproduced everywhere you look, whether that's on a television or on a phone, I think my shows connect because they are real. Like, it's a. You can see me sweating. You can see the driver crying. Depending on the show, you can. You know, you're seeing the crew sometimes and the cast and the people on the train, and you're like, oh, it's not on a set. And there are like, I don't shut down this car that I'm in. There are people there that chime in, and I let them do it. You know, we don't have someone saying, we're shooting right now, like, if you want to walk.

Speaker B: Does the mca, like, permit this or is this like a gonzo gorilla thing?

Speaker A: Let's just say we have, uh,

Speaker B: Jenna, I assume, is into this, but, uh,

Speaker A: I don't even know who that is.

Speaker B: Oh, he runs the mta. Seems like it's kind of fun.

Speaker A: No, we haven't.

Speaker B: We have, like a Q train sometimes.

Speaker A: We have a nod. We have a nod where it's like we acknowledge one another. But I think we've decided to stay out of each other's business. And that has worked out nicely.

Speaker C: Is it getting harder to record on the subway, though? I would imagine it is. I mean, I actually saw before you did your episode with the Rizzler, I saw that someone had tweeted it out, right? They were like, oh, I saw the Subway Ticks guy with the Rizzler. And I was like, okay, I guess they're doing something. I would imagine that as you as it's become more of a thing, that it's got to have been gotten a little bit more complicated, right?

Speaker A: It hasn't. People in New York City are very kind and nice, and we haven't had a single problem since we started making the show, even with how big it's gotten. In fact, there. I saw an article the other day in, like, People magazine about how some tourists were on the train while we were filming and the way that they told the story. I loved it so much because they're like, anything can happen in New York. Which is true because I was sitting there with Matt Damon, Right? Yeah. And so they were like, we saw the subway takes guy, and we were so excited. And then we looked next to him, and it was Matt Damon. And they took. You know, and then they were like, we just stayed on the train to watch the whole thing. Like, it's. It's a live talk show, and so they didn't even get off at their stop. But I do think that the show, as divisive as it is, it's like the biggest compliment that I receive, and I receive it often, is that, you know, people love the way that I'm able to have these difficult conversations that are you. You just see that they're. It's not that serious. It's really not that serious. And it's this lost art of conversation. It's my favorite hobby is arguing, but also at the end of the argument being like, let's go grab a beer. You know, it's like. It's like, it's not that. It doesn't need to be so charged up all the time. And of course, I, you know, kind of steer away from, like, straight politics. Every once in a while, I'll have a politician, but I'm not, like, on there arguing blue and red and Republicans and Democrats and maga, blah, blah, blah. It's like, not my lane. I don't want to join that. There's enough comedians who have decided that they want to build their brand on, like, interviewing politicians. I'm very much so not trying to get involved. When I do get involved, it's because it is a race that matters to me because it's my neighborhood. Like, it's legitimately my neighborhood. It's where I live. And so I've had people pitch me from Michigan and from California and from Illinois and from Minnesota and from Iowa, and I'm like, I don't live in those places.

Speaker B: So you're saying you said no to Gavin Newsom, tbd?

Speaker C: Well, I m. Am actually curious, though. I mean, on that square, right? So you've had Zoron. You've had Brad Lander, who I think represents the district that you live in. I think maybe that all of us actually live in. But I would imagine, I mean, in about six months, when the 2028 primary starts, you are going to get the comms person for every single one of those candidates, you know, knocking on your door, saying in your inbox, basically saying, can we get on subway Takes, like, you know, tomorrow.

Speaker A: So I dipped my toes in during, uh, the previous election, and I had Kamala Harris and Tim Walls on the show. And I. Again, I was flattered because this is kind of early in my career or in. In the show. I think we'd, you know, maybe been around for a year and a half. So, you know, you get an email from the White House or the dnc, and you're like, wow. Like, that's very crazy. You know, like, I'm, um. Again, I'm a guy on a subway that has this organic talk show. This is crazy. And, you know, for me, that experience, I didn't love it, and I didn't, um. And I kind of was like, I don't think that this is worth it for me. Like, I don't think I want to do this. And from that point, I kind of just had, like, a no politics rule. And then one. Then when the mayoral election happened, was it.

Speaker B: Was it because they were, like, just unable to be normal? And it was. There was so much process. It was like, it. Was it the apparatus, or was it the politics or was just actually interacting with these people? People?

Speaker A: No, I actually had a good time interacting with Tim Walls, and I had a good time with Kamala, uh, Mrs. Vice President, before the cameras were on. And then what happened, uh, and then the take that was delivered was just not. It was just it. She. You know, it's like the media training and the consultants. I think she's really cool as a person. And, like, we had a great conversation before the cameras came on, but then once the cameras came on, it was just not for me. And m. It's not worth it for me because I don't want to be blamed or to contribute to someone winning or losing a presidential election. And there's so many people that are willing to do it, and they make careers out of it, and I don't want to make a career out of it. I really don't have a desire to have a politicized environment around me.

Speaker B: And yet, like, wouldn't Trump be fun at this?

Speaker A: He would be the funniest person in the world.

Speaker B: Like, he was born for this.

Speaker A: I've been faced with the dilemma in my mind. It hasn't actually happened. But that's a question that I ask myself often, is I'm like, God, that's gonna be a hard no, like, a difficult no, because I know how Fun. It will be. But at the same time, you know, the guy is evil and is doing so many detrimental things to society and destroying so much of what, uh, makes America amazing that I would feel, you know, irresponsible doing it. So I kind of recused myself from participating in that kind of election. But again, mayoral election. I live here. I have a say. I'm a vote. Like, I'm. I'm. This is my home. So it felt more important to get involved on that level. Um, but generally speaking, I don't want to get involved in other people's states. I don't want to get involved in other people's districts. Like, it's just, you know, I'm trying my best. The other thing is, I'm trying my hard. I'm trying my best. Like, I'm, um. I. I genuinely. I mean, I know myself. I've lived with myself for 40 years. I know I'm a good guy. I'm really trying my best to make this thing feel like a positive contribution to society. I genuinely care so much. I book every guest still myself, whether it's a random person I meet at a party or approving, you know, whatever celebrity is coming on and making sure that they represent, you know, the side of humanity that I feel like is important to today's world. Um, and, yeah, the show's very personal to me because if anyone's gonna get blamed, it's gonna be me.

Speaker B: Subway Takes must have become a really good business. Is it a better business than the sort of kind of quote unquote, legitimate TV business of keep the meter running? Is it a better business to be a real television producer or basically a kind of extremely successful influencer, which, in some sort of crude sense are the two things you're doing?

Speaker A: I think being a successful influencer is probably better, um, because I pay a lot of people m. And most people. Most M influencers don't have a burn rate. I have a burn rate, and it's high. It's really high. And especially because I've, you know, I could. It could have been a good business if I didn't decide to expand it into Subway Takes Uncut, which is the longer form version on YouTube. Subway takes live, which is a ticketed event that happens, uh, every month at Brooklyn Improv, that then is live to tape, which we haven't actually released yet. But because I've decided to expand the business, the burn rate is through the roof. And, yes, I don't get paid as much as a regular influencer because of that.

Speaker C: Yeah, do you have investors or you just. This is all just money in, money out.

Speaker A: So originally me and my friend Andrew Kuo, who is, I guess the co founder of Subway Takes. I'd call the co founder is such a weird name, but I get co creator is probably a better name. Um, we started the thing together and we had originally failed at doing a, uh, scripted premium podcasting company, which was in 2020, 2021, he had raised money to start this premium scripted podcast company that I was the creative officer of. And we did that together for two to three years, burned all the cash, and with our last $10,000 were like, I was into packing it up. I was like, look, you take five, I'll take five, or let's return it to the investors. They're not going to want it, but whatever. And he was like, well, what is an idea that you have that is not like, what is, what's an idea that you have? And I go, well, I have this one idea which is to make the exact opposite of what we've been making, which is an un premium, unscripted short form show that has nothing to do with like, it's not on podcasting apps and it's just the opposite of what we've been doing. And so that was our Hail Mary. Subway Takes was our Hail Mary. So we do have an investor pot of people that we carried over from that initial failed company where Subway Takes was born out of. And then that money's obviously all gone long ago because the last $10,000 went into producing the first 10 episodes of Subway Takes. And then, uh, now it is. Yeah, it's funded primarily through brands.

Speaker B: And who sells? Just a very wonky question here, but who sells this?

Speaker A: So for the past, I'd say two years, I've been represented by Underscore Management and they have taken care of the selling. I think a lot of it is inbound and a lot of it is outbound. But so Underscore has been running that part of the business.

Speaker B: God bless the revenue. People in media never get. Never get enough for real.

Speaker C: Well, we have so much more to get to with Kareem, but we have to take a short break, so we'll be right back after this.

Speaker B: This week, on our Branded segment from Think with Google, I Talked to Google's VP of marketing, Josh Spanier, about what CMOs can learn from creators. You and I were together at Cannes this year where a lot of the buzz was about creating creators. Um, Emily Sundberg, Daniel Dobrik, Alex Cooper was there. We talked to Her. It's a really fascinating shift in power in the media industry. Why have creators become the new center of gravity?

Speaker D: So Ben, I want to credit you and Mick Signals. You've been talking about YouTube and creators since the very first episode of this podcast. It's kind of funny to me that in middle of 2026, people are still waking up to the fact that YouTube is important and creators are influential.

Speaker B: What plays from the creator playbook? Should CMOs be thinking about stealing to stay at the frontier?

Speaker D: There are a number of things I think marketers can really learn from creators, which is why they're being so successful right now. First, understand your audience. Alex Cooper and every other creator has obsessed about their audience. They built their community person by person on the YouTube platform. That obsession about their customers, customer is something that we in marketing sometimes move away from, sometimes forget. Know your customer, obsess about them. It's a great lesson. Second, YouTube has enabled a whole new expression of creativity and creators are matching that. There's long form content, there's short form content, there's video podcasts, there's high quality epic content, there's lo fi content. What creators are doing is exploring the possibilities of their content and meeting that users, meeting their audience where they're at, in the context that they want to consume content. We as brands are often guilty of just meeting our customers where we think they're going to be or where we wish they were. There's new creative expressions possible on YouTube. Take advantage of it. Third, and finally, creators are masters at co creation, at making their brands fluid and dynamic and organic and feeling authentic, building that trust with their audience. Us brands need to be better at letting go of some of our stage managed manicuring of everything and just being part of the conversation in a way which is authentic and real to the brand. People respond to that.

Speaker B: Where should people go to find out more?

Speaker D: Head on over to thinkwithgoogle.com we have a whole load of new content about creators and YouTube and how to activate them all. @thinkwithgoogle.com.

Speaker B: You told the Journal that CNN had approached you, but that you really like being on the open Internet on YouTube and so your family can watch it. How do you think about that going forward? I mean the kind of people keep knocking on the door trying to license things, trying to have you make shows for more exclusive platforms. That whole. How do you think about that?

Speaker A: I think the beauty of a career in entertainment and media at this exact moment in time is that everyone is flexible. Like literally for me Being like, oh, you want an exclusive show? Cool. Let's figure it out. You want an exclusive show? Cool. We want your show. Non exclusively. Cool. Let's figure it out. Oh, you want to do a deal between Netflix, uh, and Spotify. Jay Shetty, Cool. We'll figure it out. You know, it's a really experimental time that people, you know, it feels punk and, like, it's not punk because it's massive amounts of money, but it's like,

Speaker B: it reminds me of, like, the early Internet too. Right? Like, some of these things make sense, some don't. You only find out after.

Speaker A: Yeah. Some will be successful and some will crash and burn, but it seems like we've gotten out of a place where everyone's like, here's how we do it now. Everyone's like, we are open to doing it your way or our way or together. And it's just an exciting time where, like, yes, to me, you like more of a. Kind of like a personality adjustment is. I feel successful and I feel like I'm participating in Hollywood. I really do. I feel like I've made it in Hollywood. I'm in Hollywood. I mean, I don't have the same stuff that, like, Pedro Pascal has, but I'm participating.

Speaker B: You actually just. Just look, you're in downtown Brooklyn. As I look at the window behind you.

Speaker A: This is downtown Manhattan. Yeah, I have a studio in downtown Manhattan.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: I'm curious, though, just to kind of get a little bit more, you know, into the details here. A big part of the show is kind of understanding how the new media economy works. Can you give us a scale of, like, how big is Subway takes, like, how much money do you guys make every year? How much money is it. Does it take to pay for, you know, all the people who are involved in it? What does the money look like?

Speaker A: I'll say that we spent. Like, we're about to start spending. Oh, man. I don't even know if I'm. I mean, I'm technically allowed to say this because I'm the boss, but I don't know if I should.

Speaker C: You're allowed to say anything on the podcast, but I don't know.

Speaker A: I know. I'm trying to figure out, like, I don't know if I want to reveal my financials of the show. Uh, other than it's, like, expensive, and let's just say everyone gets paid a fair rate and there's a lot of people. I mean, let me see. I'm trying to figure out how someone smart would answer this. How would you answer It, Ben, maybe give a range.

Speaker C: I'd probably.

Speaker A: Okay, hold on. Let me count the figures. Yeah, it's in the mid five figures, I'd say. To run the company every month.

Speaker C: Makes sense. Yeah, it makes sense, I think. You know, but the reason why we ask is because a lot of this stuff is so opaque. People have no idea, uh, how influencers make money beyond brand deals, how much those brand deals are worth. And I mean, when somebody says a brand deal, it could be, you know, worth a very, uh, very small amount, or it could be worth a, uh, tremendous amount.

Speaker B: Right. There's so much of that culture, I mean, not your part of it, but it's about, like, sort of projecting financial success. And so, like, all these people. There's so many people out there, I think, who are like, kind of like eating cat food and talking about how. And posing in front of private jets. Yeah, like, not you, not you.

Speaker C: But it's also the opposite. Sometimes you're like, holy shit. It is insane how much money some of these, you know, some of these individuals, for sure.

Speaker A: I mean, I've been very specific about how I want to be perceived in both the market as well as in the media. And I don't want to be perceived as an influencer because I don't think what I do is influencer. Like, I'm not an influencer. I don't do Get Ready with Me or like, uh, you know, vlogs or, you know, I'm not flexing. It's not part of my thing. I'm not even that per. Like, with the exception of Keep the Meter Running, my personal life isn't really the main focus of my content. And I think that's the difference between an influencer and a person who is maybe influential is that, you know, what I put out is entertainment, and it's personal to me, but my life is not the entertainment, if that makes sense. Yeah. And from day one, I've always wanted to express kind of that I'm a producer. I mean, I'm more of a producer than I am an influencer. Um, um, I'm more of a producer and talent and a development executive, I guess you could say. Cause I greenlight that. You know, it's like I'm a studio disguise. And the nomenclature of influencer or creator, you know, it's all kind of become jumbled a little bit. I think influencers are still influencers. I think creators are a different thing. I think I like to, you know, call myself a producer or an entertainer. And like, for Subway Takes that is brand funded and one video will be able to pay for the month. Let's call it, you know, one sponsored video is paying for the burn rate for the month. Everyone's getting paid. We do two, I'm getting paid, you know, like, like it's a way to, to, to build a really strong business. And um, I'm expanding that with kind of this new content with, with Subway Takes Uncut and with the live show. Right. So I'm bringing in new pieces of revenue, new methods of revenue on Keep the Meter Running. That show was funded by a company called and Media. They you know, call like they are a studio that is investing in creator based entertainment from podcasts to shows like mine. Season two will be a mix of, of like that kind of money plus branded money, you know. And again it's like I would love to work with like a WhatsApp because that makes sense in the cabbie community or an airline because I'm, you know, big surprise, I'm announcing it here on setup four is that we're gonna uh, you know, we're going to take the show international. I also have developed a new way of uh, like because doing two shows at once is very difficult and one's always on so the other one can't always be on or else I'll have no life at all. So I'm gonna, I'm trying something new which is that Keep the Meter Running will be an always on show, but it will be based around monthly drops in this like so once a month. It's still eventized. You're still like, oh, I wonder where he's gonna. Is he gonna be in China? Is he gonna be in Venezuela? Is he gonna be in Senegal? Like where's he gonna go next? And it gives time to kind of eventize the release and make it feel like a big thing. And at the same time it gives me time to like have a cool time doing. I said time so many times during this. It gives me, it gives me like a lot of it of that show is like I wanna have a really interesting and filled life. Like I'm, I'm doing that project because it makes my life interesting and it takes me to places that I've never been and it is inspiring and it feels really good and it's good for humanity and for men. We have a men problem in this country and I think seeing men hanging out and like in positive ways is helpful to the current state of the world.

Speaker C: And you know, I know the and media people a little bit. Some folks you Know who used to work in the White House under, Under Biden, who kind of started this after 20 when they kind of realized they wanted to create a podcast and media company that kind of pushed, in some ways, that kind of pushed back against, you know, the manosphere in this kind of ascendant online. Right. Which, if you look at the podcast charts or YouTube or whatever, is just clearly, you know, occupies a huge, huge part of the media space. If it, if not the. If not the dominant media space. I mean, do you kind of. Do you kind of think that that's a. Do you, do you agree with the goal? I imagine that you do because, you know, obviously they're making, you know, they're partners on the show.

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I think that we have a responsibility as people who sway opinion and can influence outcomes. We have a responsibility to do the right thing. And I think that there is a lot of darkness right now, and whether it's keep the meter running or subway takes, I want to. It's not like, fight the forces of evil, but I want to contribute positively to society. Honestly. I want to look back on my career and say, you know, you were a good guy. You did a good thing. You made good stuff that people responded to, and it affected, uh, them in ways. Uh, it made them cry, it made them laugh, but it made them do something, you know, and hopefully it didn't make them get pissed off and, like, throw rocks at buildings, uh, or whatever, you know, like, um. But yeah, I, I do think that there's just not a lot of great male role models, um, out there right now. I think. I don't know. I haven't thought about it. Like, it's not like a thing that I think about. Do you know what I mean? I'm not, like, thinking about it, uh, every day. But I do know that when, you know, people talk about someone like Anthony Bourdain, for example, it's generally a very, like, people feel connected to that person. And if he was around today, I think a lot of young people would look up to him as someone better than XYZ podcaster. Do you know what I mean? Like, there's not a lot of options in terms of the things that have become successful. So, yeah, I think. I think trying to just be, uh, the best kind of person I can be is good. And that's also one of the reasons I don't take, uh, money from prediction markets or alcohol or tobacco or, um, kind of, I guess, the military or whatever. It's just like, you know, there's a hard line at, like, the dirtiest money.

Speaker B: New York is so much the subject of what you've done. I'm glad. I'm looking forward to international episodes. But, I mean, to some degree, everything you're doing is marketing for New York City, and obviously you're a New Yorker and love it. And I guess one thing that I mean. And it's part of why I love Subway Takes and the show, but I also worry a little. It's so nostalgic. Like, I feel like New York's in this moment when are we really just, like, becoming kind of like a museum of what it used to be like in the 20th century with these yellow cabs and these colorful characters, or are we actually going to be a city that grows and modernizes? And. I don't know. I think people are very split on that. It runs through politics, too. But I'm curious how you sort of, like, balance the nostalgia in a big fish way. Like, the nostalgia for New York with, like, a future where this is, like, where. I mean, it's going to be five years or 10 years or 15 years, but these cars are all going to be driven by robots.

Speaker A: Yeah, it's, um. I'm not, like, fighting it, and I, I. And I don't intentionally, like, make it feel nostalgic, you know, like, yeah, I take yellow cabs because it's available, you know, like. Like, it's not like, you're, like, not.

Speaker B: Not a lift and Uber guy.

Speaker A: No, no. I mean, I. Of course I. I use those, but if they're. If I have. If I'm walking out onto Fifth Avenue, I'm healing a cabin. If I'm in my. If I'm in Park Slope, it's not happening. You know, like, it's just not gonna happen. So we do what we can. Um, I don't know. That's a really good question. I've never had that question. I guess I am, um, a kind of hopeless romantic. But not just about the city. It's just more about, like, the way we used to be. I think that's really the nostalgia is the way that we used to be. And there are little things that you can do to kind of change your life. Uh, how to change your Mind by Michael Pollan. Um, but. No, no, don't. I'm not gonna. That's not what I'm saying. But, like, something as simple as, like, you put your phone in your pocket when you're walking down the street, you know, there's a lot of people walking around with their Phone out, looking at their phone, checking the phone on the phone. I mean, uh, I think being on the phone literally is different than, like, looking at your text or responding. So it takes a little bit of intention. But I try to put my phone in my pocket when I'm going from point A to point B. And I enjoy the sights and sounds of the city. And I see things that remind me of the old days. Right? I see an argument happening. I see a girl crying on a corner because she just got broken up with. I see a couple fighting. I see someone walking a poodle, and she looks just like the poodle. And you start noticing, like, it's like 101 Dalmatians vibes. Uh, so that is kind of what I'm missing. I think I'm missing the. You know, I watch old movies like the Sandlot or, uh, Dazed and Confused, and it's not New York. It's just the way we used to be. And I think that is the thing that I'm nostalgic for. And I think that's the thing that I react to when I'm trying to make this stuff is it feels. It does feel like a place that we've been, but something that's so distant. Um, but I think it's still there. And a lot of people are living it. You know, a lot of people aren't us. We live in mental crazy land we live in. We are the ones that live in, not reality. Seriously. Uh, we don't. We live in the fake world. There's real world is everywhere. We live in the fake world. We're on the fucking podcast. Sorry for swearing. I only did it once. This whole time. We are on the podcast. We are asking, does your mic work? We're asking. We're sitting here. We've never met in real life, and we're having a conversation like, we have met in real life. I read this great article about lines. Did you guys read the article about lines in New York? Yeah, In New York magazine.

Speaker C: Oh, yeah. About lines. Physical lines lining up for stuff. Yes, yes.

Speaker A: And I was, like, happy for the people standing in line because I was like, oh, this is now a new. A new New York tradition. And you can make fun of the people in line, but they. I was like, they're having a great time. It's now become a place to hang out. We don't have any third places. You got to join Soho House if you want to hang out somewhere, or one of the other 1700 private members clubs in the city. The line to me is More appealing than a members club. I would rather stand in the line. That's where you're going to get what we're missing. That's where you're going to get. Sitting at the diner counter, right? And you might be standing in line for a fucking cookie that's viral on TikTok, but at least you're having a conversation with someone else who's standing in line for the cookie. That person might be a, uh, west, uh, village resident of 70 years. And it might be a person that's visiting the West Village for the first time in their life and just got back from Jessica, Sarah Jessica Parker Stoop. But the point is like, that I'm like, you know what? If that defines us, I'm down. It's probably a very unpopular opinion. But there are no lines in Dubai. There are no lines in Shanghai. I mean, there might be lines in Shanghai, I don't know, maybe to get into the club, but they're not like here. They're not lines for the mundane.

Speaker C: Yeah, I will say, yeah. If you walk, you know, walking around in the West Village or whatever at a certain hour, I don't think New York does not feel like a museum to itself. Uh, it feels more like the line. Um, Kareem, we want to ask you, Want to ask you a few questions before we wrap up here. What do you think makes a successful subway take and what do you think makes a subway take bad?

Speaker A: Mhm. I think the bad. I'll answer that part first. I think the bad subway takes are when people prep and prep and prep. Like I've had people show up with like a notepad and being like, here's my notes, here's my scribbles. And the problem.

Speaker C: Who did that? Name?

Speaker A: No, no, like, like just a lot of regulars as, uh, you know, a lot of normal, A lot of civilians come, um, with an opad. I'll say, like, Young Lean came. I have it framed at. Young Lean came with notes, uh, that I was like, can I have these? And I framed it.

Speaker C: Oh my God.

Speaker D: Julian.

Speaker A: Uh, Casablancas also came with notes. And the people that do well are the ones that come with a deeply personal, like, I don't want to talk about Woody Allen, but like a gripe. You know, they have like a small, an insignificant thing that has been bothering them. And then when they say it out loud, you realize that it's a problem for everyone and everyone's got an opinion on this little thing that you never expected everyone to have a problem with. You know, those are the Ones that do really well.

Speaker C: Do you think that people, especially the kind of a list, celebrities, people who have something to lose, kind of don't come with enough heat? Because I was kind of arguing with some people online about the, uh, JLO one that you did, which I thought was. Even though I think her take is terrible, I thought it was awesome that she came with something and that was like, gonna hit people off.

Speaker B: This is that real New Yorkers must be born.

Speaker C: You have to be born here, right?

Speaker B: You got to see the movie Metropolitan. And the opposite is true.

Speaker A: No, it's just got that movie on dvd. I've never seen it. Oh.

Speaker B: Oh, that is. That's a defining New York movie. Uh, I don't hear what you think of it.

Speaker C: Totally, totally agree. But I think that 100% agree. But I do think that, like, uh, but. But I do think that.

Speaker B: Exactly.

Speaker C: I was going to say I think. I think people say that more now because of you.

Speaker A: They do. No, they definitely do.

Speaker C: Uh, but. But I do. But. But. But I do think, like, like the thing that was beautiful about that take, which got written up in the New York Times, like a whole article obviously written about this one, about this take, you know, was that it was going to piss people off. And this is a very famous person with an opinion that's going to alienate and anger kind of a lot of people. Do you feel, though, that the. Do you feel like the people who come, who are, you know, very famous, your A listers, are they. Are they bringing enough. Are they bringing enough heat?

Speaker A: I've always said that the. The takes don't need to be hot. They really. They don't need to be spicy. Like, Sterling K. Brown came on and he said, honeycrisp apples are the best apple. I was ecstatic. I, um, love Honeycrisp. Like, that is something. You go to the grocery store and there's all these apples and Red Delicious is not delicious. Should be called Red Disgusting. Like, to me, that is a perfect take. It's not hot, but it's like, it's personal. You now know that Sterling K. Brown has been thinking about apples. And, like, it's just good. That's a good take. Or the Rizzler peanut butter's overrated. It's just fucking funny. But.

Speaker C: But it.

Speaker A: It was the subject of conversation. I had Stavros on yesterday, and he was like, I love the take. And I. And he was like, I think it's. It's generational. The Rizzler is born into a world where there are so Many butters. Of course, peanut butters.

Speaker C: Oh, my God.

Speaker A: The guy has access to every butter. And I go, dang. The context is true. Like, when I was growing up, it was either crunchy or creamy. That's it. There was no pistachio butter. There was no almond butter. There was no, like, whatever, Nutella. I didn't even have Nutella until I was 30. Like, the Rizzler has access to butters. So for him, of course, peanut butter is overrated. So when you start thinking about, like, the takes don't have to be hot, it's just you appreciate the most. Monday, today's take is crazy. Which is. I was like, oh, boy. I almost. This is one that I was almost like, I don't. I think I want to not do this. But I still did it. And it was that, uh, Let me see here, I'll pull it up. It was that nothing is gayer than the US Military.

Speaker C: Oh, I get it.

Speaker B: Whose take was that?

Speaker C: I get it.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Who is this guy? No, this guy Jasper. He's just like, a guy.

Speaker B: Was that Pete Hexa?

Speaker A: Uh, he talks about Peter Hegseth in the thing, but he does talk about how in the army and the Navy, it's the same as a frat. It's like this homoerotic tension. Which is true. I mean, it is true. Dudes with their shirts off dancing, they're in their underwear, they're fucking kissing each other on the lips because they're bonded as brothers. And there's this. Yeah, there is this homoerotic tension, uh, that occurs in these traditions and all of this. He wrote a whole book about it. But, you know, the opening line, I was like, I don't know if I want to publish it. Because, like, if you don't watch. If you don't watch the whole video,

Speaker C: it's, like, not gonna understand the nuance of that one. Uh, yeah.

Speaker A: Yeah. Sometimes they get into territory where I'm

Speaker C: like, well, actually, that's a no. But this is a good question for you, which is like, you know, probably in episode one or episode, you know, five or whatever, when not as many people were watching, you wouldn't be as scared of a take like that. Right? But now that you, you know, you are, uh, you know, 800 episodes in almost, you have more to lose. You have a lot of people who work for you. You have more people who could theoretically be pissed off by your stuff. Do you feel. Is that. Is that more challenging? Do you feel like maybe you either push back on some of the takes more or you are at certain ones that you don't want to, you know, air. Do you feel more of the pressure now that you have a bigger platform?

Speaker A: I definitely feel a pressure about like, again, this, this thing about responsibility and like trying to push the conversation forward, but also maintain a level of integrity. Uh, at the same time, I think other people, now that it has become such a big platform, it's kind of like my problem has been solved because no one wants to really inflame. You know, I mean, that's a pretty spicy take though. So maybe I'm wrong. Maybe people are still coming.

Speaker C: We'll find out in like a few days or whatever that goes.

Speaker A: Maybe they're still coming on with Full on Heat, but. But I've really not. I've not told anyone that they like, must change their take. There really hasn't been. No one's come and said like something so inflammatory that I'm just like, you can't do that. You know, people, they get the assignment. They know I'm also not dealing with like evil people most of the time. Um, like I said, I book the show myself still, so I'm usually around like, like normal good hearted people. Um, yeah, but. But I guess, I guess the thing about it is like, I try to. I guess the thing I want people to know, and I think this is why the Emmy nomination is such a win, is like, I think a lot of, like, a lot like the people think it's like an iPhone, you know, they don't see the prep, the pre production, the post production, the regular production, the amount of people that work on the show, the fact that it like, operates almost like a magazine and I'm the editor in chief in terms of what show, like, who I'm gonna greenlight, what talent I'm gonna greenlight. You know, it's like it is a whole apparatus and it's. I'm glad that with the success of the show, it has pushed the genre of short form, unscripted vertical video content forward. And to be nominated for an Emmy is like the pinnacle of television success, literally. And I mean, Stavros yesterday was like, you should probably retire. Like, where's. What's. What is after this? You know, and he. And. And if I didn't love what I do, then that would probably. Like, when he said that, I was like, maybe I could. And then I got really sad because then I was like, well, I wouldn't be getting, uh, I. New York now feels like I live in hey, Arnold or Sesame Street. It's awesome for Me, um, I'm riding my bike. Yo, Kareem. Subway takes, like. It feels cool to be in a community where I feel like, you know, people, they like the show. Generally speaking, they like the show. Of course, there's haters. There's haters for everything. But, yeah, I like. The things I want to set the record on are, like, that this show requires, like, I have to take money because I have to pay so many people. I have to. I can't not pay people. I've. From day one, I've paid people fair wages. Number two, 95% of the people that get booked on the show do not have a publicist. Like, it's not all influencers. It's like that author guy was. He pitched himself. He was like, I'm writing a book about gayness in the military. And I go, that's awesome. You're on. You know, he doesn't have a publicist. The comedians that come on the show, they don't have publicists. And a lot of it, there's people, there's nonprofits that are like, hey, can we get on the show? I put nonprofits on there. I'm trying my hardest. There's only so many slots, but there's this kind of misconception that it's all publicity and it's all celebs and it's all PR people. But, like, that's simply not the case, you know? So those are the two criticisms that I face the most, and those are two criticisms that I'm like, they're just inherently false. You know, I started the show from day one as a talk show. I've booked every single guest from day one. It's never been a random guy on the train. I've tried that. It does not work because you just go, what's your take in the guy? Um, and then, you know, they don't have a take, or they're just, like, not prepared. I mean, entertainers are entertainers people on camera or people on camera. You guys would be great on the show because you talk for a living, you know?

Speaker C: Yeah, I actually do. I mean, that's the one thing that we've. That we've tried to do that we realized very quickly for this show, even though it's a media podcast and it's a media business podcast, that we're like, oh, we need people who actually know how to talk into a microphone for an hour.

Speaker A: It's really hard. And it's even hard to get them to talk for two minutes.

Speaker C: Right?

Speaker B: Probably harder.

Speaker C: Probably harder. That's true.

Speaker A: Uh, with Keep the Meter Running, I had some of the taxi drivers come on Subway Takes, and, like, it was a lot more difficult for them to do that show. Like, and we should, uh, we should keep the meter running for, like, two days. And they were. It was easy because it was their environment. They're like, take me to the Russian bath house. Like, it's. It's easy when you go on Subway Takes and you're like, okay, you have to say a thing and defend it, or I'll agree with you. And we riff on it. They're just like, I don't get what this is.

Speaker C: I think a good place for us to wrap is, you know, you've done, you know, like we said, almost. You're. You'll cross the threshold for 800 episodes of Subway Takes pretty shortly. Are you. Are you getting bored? Do you feel like I've done it 800 times? You know, I'm. I kind of can't 100% agree as much with as much enthusiasm as I used to be able to.

Speaker A: Look, man, I'm in a Zen state. And again, to me, this is a dream. And the way I battle that is by launching Subway Takes Uncut and then by doing a live show, I'm kind of keeping myself entertained by expanding it and being able to produce a live show, which I've never done before. And now it's like, I'm learning all about the live show stuff. And then we did five live shows without taping them, and then I was like, let's tape them. So now I'm learning how to do a live to tape thing, which brings its own challenges. So, yeah, like, and. And it's. It's fun. I mean, I'm having a fun time. Of course I will get tired. Of course I don't want to do it for the rest of my life. But right now, it feels like we're making headway. And again, this Emmy nomination, it's like, why would I stop? You know, I really don't know why I would stop.

Speaker C: Well, Kareem, thank you so much. This has been really, really fascinating, and congrats on this season. Keep the meter running. And of course, the Emmy nomination. Do you think you're gonna win? Are you campaigning for it?

Speaker A: I'm getting my speech ready.

Speaker B: There's probably some Emmy voters listening. This is a good. This is a good for your consideration spot.

Speaker C: That's right.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Um, maybe they'll see.

Speaker B: Please consider.

Speaker A: Yeah, I don't think I'm allowed to

Speaker B: say it, but, um, we're campaigning for you.

Speaker C: Thank you.

Speaker D: So.

Speaker C: Thanks, Kareem.

Speaker B: We appreciate it.

Speaker A: Thank you guys so much.

Speaker B: We spent 2025 talking to people who channeled the excitement and belief in AI in media and marketing. A lot of that conversation in 2026 will be about the hard work of building with those tools. Think with Google is here to bridge the gap between inspiration and implementation. This isn't fluff. It's a rigorous look at the mechanics of growth to help CMOs solve the hard problems, like navigating complex consumer journeys and proving value through better measurement. Make this the year you turn potential into performance. Visit thinkwithgoogle.com. Max. What a delight to kind of, like, encounter someone in that kind of golden moment of his career, like, when everything is working and also it's new. I don't know. That was such a fun conversation.

Speaker C: I. I agree. What I thought was really great is just the lack of, like, bitterness. I do think it's gotta be probably slightly annoying if you're like, in a bar or you're with your, you know, he's got a young kid and, you know, he got married recently. And like, you know, if you're with your family and you're at the line for the coffee shop and someone's, you know, shouting something kind of obnoxious at you, like, that's gotta be kind of annoying. But what I really liked is the fact that it.

Speaker B: I, uh, don't think he's sick of it.

Speaker C: No, he's not. And I actually think he's like, at

Speaker B: the exact precise right altitude of fame.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: You know, where it's like, nice.

Speaker C: Right, Right, exactly. And I. There is like, kind of this open question of like, can you get bigger as an Internet, you know, digital first personality, can you kind of make the transition from Subway Takes guy who I sometimes see on my feed to like, actually, you know, Kareem himself, the celebrity who people know in kind of different venues. I feel like he's kind of. He is right on the cusp. He's done some television. He's, as you mentioned, he's up for. For an em. I mean, I don't know. What do you think, Ben? Do you think, like, people like Kareem, like, we had Adam Friedland on last year. Yeah, it was last year now. And you know, he is somebody who is kind of at a very, uh, at a similar altitude where he's kind of broken past digital stardom and is now kind of moving closer to more mainstream Hollywood stardom. Do you think that. Do you think that that's going to happen for Kareem? Or is that career path kind of gone the way of, you know, dying linear television?

Speaker B: No, I mean, I think that's the thing. Is there anything on linear television as compelling as what he's doing or as what Adam's doing? I think it's funny. We talk about convergence for so many years, that digital and linear converging, but actually that's not exact. They did kind of converge and absorb each other. But it is these so much of the most compelling. Whether it's journalism, like what Johnny Harris is doing, or entertainment like what those guys are doing is just being produced by people at the height of their powers who've been doing it a while and are totally native to these ecosystems. And if you think about how hard and clunky it is to rebuild 60 Minutes and they're like, what is 60 Minutes? And I don't even know. But then what folks like Johnny and Kareem are doing that's just totally native to. Not to the digital ecosystem, but just to what people want to see what they watch. I mean, it's just totally different. And I think, yeah, I think it'll probably be so famous it's super annoying soon.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: Ah, for him, not for us. He seems like a delightful guy and the kind of person you want to be famous. Interesting too, is. And I think that the freedom that folks like Kareem and like Johnny and like, you know, Adam have is the freedom to play around with the format, Right? He can do Subway Takes as a half an hour podcast slash interview show. He can do it as a two minute short clip because that's the only part that's interesting for YouTube or for. For TikTok and for Instagram reels. He can do it as a live show at a venue at a comedy ven, you know, in Brooklyn. It's the ability and the freedom to play around with format in a way that if you're in linear television, you're like, I have to deliver this television by this amount of television by this specific date. I can and can't say these types of words we have. There's all the kinds of technical elements that kind of go into it. And I think that what we found is that that's really limiting and people want to watch shows that are two to three minutes long. And, you know, and that's totally fine.

Speaker B: I thought that moment he was just talking about what an unformed world it is and like how flexible it is. And it's like. And the notion that you would only do YouTube or not do YouTube and only do Netflix. Like all of that is sort of, you know, be behind a paywall or not behind a paywall. Like. Sure, all of the above. Like let's. And it's just a very kind of like open, fluid moment which. Which if you're very connected to your audience, is very fun.

Speaker C: What makes a popular show in 2026 is kind of this open question, right? Like mixed signals as far as the audience for the show goes on a downloading basis is great. But we obviously the clips, the impact of the clips on the show. I mean like, I think some of the clips from this episode are going to do quite well and reach a tremendously large audience. When I talk to people who say that they follow mixed signals, I think most of them are talking about the fact that they just see these, you know, the best bits that we. That our excellent producers put out there for the world.

Speaker B: What did you think of. I thought those were an interesting observation that the rise of kind of AI slop, which in some way like perfects the gamified outrage bait nonsense actually then opens space for more authentic stuff. Do you buy that M. Or sort of that AI is going to out compete really cynical humans at being super cynical and awful.

Speaker C: I think that it definitely, uh. Kareem is circling around an interesting idea which is the gamification is something that the platforms are always going to want to push back on. I mean when we had Adam Mosseri on the show and he was talking about this in. Instagram is doing a lot to push back against slop on its platform, even though it might not feel that way necessarily. They know that users want content that feels real. They don't want content that feels cheap and is just trying to kind of game the algorithm. If there's one thing that I think we both know, it's that if you, you can game this, the platforms for a short amount of time, but eventually people get tired of it. It becomes cliche people. It's not good necessarily for your brand. This was the problem with clickbait, right? It was like these were. This is a term that was inv because people felt tricked into clicking on something because of tricks that people or media companies were playing with the image or with the headline to essentially real people in. And that content was really low cost. So I actually, I do agree. I think that the key that Kareem has got at. That Chris Black got at in his interview with us is just like have good taste and do the stuff that uh, you think is interesting, and if you have the kind of a list charisma like Kareem has, I think it ends up working out pretty well for you. Well, that is it for us this week. Thank you so much for listening to another episode of the Mixed Signals podcast from us here at Semaphore Media. Our show is produced expertly, as always, by Manny Fidel, with special thanks to Josh Billinson, Amber Ali, Rachel Oppenheim, Anna Pizzino, Daniel Hatt, Wylie, Jules Zern, and Tori Kaur. Our engineer is Rick Kwan and our our theme music, of course, is by Steve Bone. If you like Mixed Signals, please follow us wherever you get your podcast and feel free to leave us a five star review. And if you want more, you can always sign up for Semaphore's Media newsletter, which is out every Sunday night.