Sarina Paulson on leadership, salon growth, and building Willo Salons

Serena Paulson: I think that if we don't embrace technology, we will become irrelevant. Those moments with their hairdresser really can change their outlook. It could change their life in a profound way. I think one of the most important traits of a leader is transparency and building trust and rapport with your team. Denoti presents Robe Diaries the fascinating stories behind the best brands in beauty, wellness and fitness, hosted by Sudhir Koneru.

Sudheer Koneru: From business and criminal justice to retail and hair care, Serena Paulson's journey is a masterclass in resilience, leadership and transformation. As the owner of Willow Salons, Serena has transformed this full service, 100% vegan hair salon into a staple, earning accolades like KCRA, A list status and Sacramento magazine's best hair salon ratings. But her journey to success was anything but ordinary. After studying business and criminal justice in college, Serena pursued a career at JC Penney where she rose to become director of operations, overseeing the company's hair Salons. In 2019, she took a bold step, purchasing Willow Salons just before the pandemic. Inspired by her mother, uh, a marketing business owner who exemplified resilience and the importance of giving back, Serena channeled those values into transforming Willow Salons into a thriving, community focused business. Under her leadership, Willow Salons has rebranded successfully, now with three locations and a team of 67 employees, all the while staying true to its sustainable and community focused values. Today, we are thrilled to have Serena in the podcast to share her insights on leadership and how she's built a salon business that's as much about the people as it's about beauty. So welcome to Grow Diary. Serena, thanks for making the time to be here.

Serena Paulson: Thank you for having me.

Sudheer Koneru: Yeah, great. And I thought maybe we should first start off with you just sharing a little bit about Willow Salon and what it represents in the Sacramento community.

Serena Paulson: Sure. So Willis Salons, we have three locations in greater Sacramento. We are Aveda Salons and I've been the owner of those salons for going on almost six years now. We have an amazing team of artists that some coming from cosmetology school, but many that have been with us for over a decade. We're also the preferred salon of the Sacramento Kings NBA dancers. And so we just, we have an amazing team that really prides ourselves on top notch guest services as well as amazing technical skills.

Sudheer Koneru: Great. And I think, yeah, you've been rated as the best hair salon by Sacramento magazine and all since like you're on the, you know, up in the top of the chain, in the, in the area kind of stuff and, and Also, I did want to talk a little later about all the work that you do outside of Billow Salons, because I think that represents a lot of what you bring. Uh, but maybe first we wanted to start off with understanding your background a little bit leading up to Willow Salons, because you've obviously worked in the industry for many years, and, you know, you worked at JCPenney as well. But, uh, you know, M. Why don't you share a little color about your early career and J.C. penney?

Serena Paulson: Sure. So when I was in graduate school, I started working at JCPenney. I actually was going to school for criminal justice and planned to work in law enforcement, which I know is a far cry from the hair world. Right. But so I was doing that. I started working at JCPenney and just found myself working my way up through the company and ultimately landed at the JCPenney corporate office. And during my tenure there, I spent almost two years as director of operations for all 949 of JCPenney hair salons, which is really what I would credit. Learning so much about this industry, you know, the benchmarks, the KPIs, working with hairdressers, retail, everything about it. I really learned from that experience. And then I went on to be the director of another merchandise division, which was also a service business. And, uh, so I really spent so much time in the service side at the JCPenney Company, which I feel really set me up for this role that I would have later on in my career.

Sudheer Koneru: Cool. So then what triggered you to say you're working in a large company, managing large operations, going from there, saying, okay, I'll buy a business and run a small business? I mean, what triggered that?

Serena Paulson: Sure. I mean, that's a fair question. I think I saw the change of what was happening in the retail landscape. Both my husband and I worked at JCPenney, and, you know, online presence was becoming a lot greater in brick and mortar. The mall itself. There was a lot of changes happening with regards to that. And we lived in Texas and had two very small children and no family living there. And so I decided to make a career change to so really I could be closer to my parents so my kids could have those meaningful relationships with their grandparents, and then thought about embarking on something different. That really allowed me to still use my business acumen but have flexibility in my work schedule, so I could also be a mom.

Sudheer Koneru: M. Cool. Great. In fact, tomorrow, when I'm talking at Energize, I'm also referring to what you just said, which is the World has changed so much that it's all gone digital for salon owners to think through how they are going to handle their digital presence. And also good, uh, insight early on, I guess that was you had. So what was the big change you saw from going from large company to running? What was the challenge? What was the shift that you had to make in being an entrepreneur yourself?

Serena Paulson: You know, I think that the biggest thing is that when you work in a corporate environment, there's a broad team behind you to support every effort. And when you're a small business owner, the buck stops with you and the team is not as deep. Right. And so that is a big adjustment when you have the same standards, uh, and expectations that you would have made working for a major corporation that you want to implement and execute in a small business, but your resources are a lot more limited. And so it's figuring out how to do those things at the proper scale with inside your four walls that can sometimes be a challenge.

Sudheer Koneru: And, uh, by the way, even I had that. I used to work at Microsoft for eight years. I quit, started, and Microsoft had an IT guard group to send a mail and you get a computer set up, Send a mail, you get something else set up. And now everything you have to do on your own. That's interesting. Yeah. And when you acquired this business, so what were the early changes you had to do, what was the business like and what did you have to do to say, no, this is going to run in a different model or a different image that you had in mind?

Serena Paulson: Well, first I purchased the salons in November of 2019.

Sudheer Koneru: They Perfect timing.

Serena Paulson: I didn't have a very big crystal ball, clearly, um, because three months later we had the start of the pandemic in California. I should have mentioned if I didn't that my salons are in California. And for those listening that don't know, we were closed for six months that first year.

Sudheer Koneru: Uh, oh, okay.

Serena Paulson: So it was a, it was a challenge. But I tried to use that challenge for good and think about the things within the business that I wanted to change that I could do when we were closed that might have been, you know, required me to do it in a slower pace if we were open. So looking at our branding was one I felt like we needed to modernize our branding. I really felt strongly that, that building brand equity in the community was really important because it's not just important to acquire new guests and retain the guests you have, but it's important for talent acquisition and retention. And so I started with rebranding you know, I worked with modernizing the colors and our, uh, logo and all of that. And then I pivoted to enhancing our website. We had a very homegrown website that I think the client actually was managing. And so I partnered with a website company that was very knowledgeable in SEO. And as you know, in the pandemic, this idea of online presence became even because people were at home and they were using search and things of that nature. Um, and so I wanted to quickly get after that. So we redid our website and then the next thing was we looked at our booking system. And I felt that the booking system that we had, while it was sufficient for being a repository for hosting our appointments, it was not progressive in terms of helping drive revenue. And at that time I realized that when we were going to reopen after being closed for such a long period of time, having the ability to book online appointments and things of that nature was going to become even of greater importance. So those are really kind of the three biggest things I did on the operational side and then on, you know, the side of my team, just really enhancing incentives and things that were going to help reignite their passion about their career after being, uh, you know, home for so long.

Sudheer Koneru: Yeah, great, great. And yeah, interesting that you, I think a lot of people did do that in the window of COVID the online aspect and reviewing technology because you're anyway closed, so might as well use the time to do something, you know, that is good. And you said you are among a small group of businesses in California which are like, you know, 5% of the salons which were, you know, they're employee based. So how has your. Was your challenge in terms of bringing the employees back and you know, even ongoing in terms of retaining them. What kind of work have you done and how you work with employees?

Serena Paulson: Well, you know, as you said, 5% of salons in California are employee based. And this idea of booth rental has, you know, been creeping up over the years. But I think the culture that we have at our salon is something that speaks for itself and also we showcase on our social media pages. But we have implemented things in our salon that we know are important to advance the careers of our team. So one big portion of that is education. In fact, today back home, our salons, our teams are going through some cutting classes today. And tomorrow we, uh, know some more textured cuts will be coming in. So we're doing some additional education on that trend. We have regular education. We've implemented some different incentives that help incentivize their growth. We of course use Zenodi to assist with that because we use the components of the software that give visibility to our team on um, how they're performing against those benchmarks. So we've implemented a lot of things within our software that have enabled us to support what we're asking our teams to do. We partnered with the Sacramento Kings dancers, which from an artist perspective is really fun to use their artistry in such a way that they see, you know, the dancers out on the court and that's their work that they did. And then of course we have a whole Host of benefits, 401k, other incentives that we do. But we've really focused on making this a career, not a job, and helping our team set themselves up not just to be successful where they are now, but to look at their future financial wealth and health and wellness. So just a lot of different things to make it as great of a place to work as we possibly can.

Sudheer Koneru: Cool. And you've been very diligent. If I collect around setting goals for people and you know, for. Because it takes time and effort to define goals every quarter, sit down with them every quarter. And then you've been very transparent around these numbers with all your stuff. Right. It's not just a one on one. Everybody knows where do you stand relative to others and all that stuff. You being pretty transparent in how you run with the employees?

Serena Paulson: Yes. I think one of the most important traits of a leader is transparency and building trust and rapport with your team. And if they don't trust me, they're not going to listen to anything I say. And so, uh, everybody on my team actually knows what everybody else makes because we have a level system and the way that each level is paid is the same across that level. Now they have bonus opportunities, so that's where their pay will differ. But in terms of their base pay, it is a growth plan that is fully outlined and transparent to everybody. And then we also have benchmarks around that that we know the key drivers of success in a salon business and we focus on those at the salon level. But then we also make that visible to the team at the service provider level and you know, creates friendly competition. They can see the leaderboard and you know, why is so and so number one for the week. I've got do something about that.

Sudheer Koneru: Right.

Serena Paulson: And it creates that, that drive to want to be better and to succeed.

Sudheer Koneru: Yeah, I think, yeah, being transparent with employees about where they stand and knowing that how they get paid is also very transparent is a, uh, very important metric in retaining people, because a lot of people leave because they feel their business is not fair and something is not right. Whereas. Yeah. So that's a good tip for everyone to follow, I would say. So in addition to just your employees, you also invested a lot of your time more recently. I know education outside your business, outside your stores as well with Aveda and, you know, Aveda Business College. So maybe you can expand. What is it that you do in terms of education for others in the industry?

Serena Paulson: Sure. So I'm one of, I think, eight professors with Aveda Business College, and I think everybody knows about the technical education that Aveda offers, which is so amazing and unique in our industry. I shared my team is actually in a class today with a Nevada artist, an educator. But then there's also the business side. Right. It's the perfect marriage between the artistry and the business acumen that's going to drive a business forward and that's going to help your team grow. Those two things are intertwined heavily. And so through the Aveda Business College, we teach business classes on the things that help drive revenue, that help drive profit, that help manage expenses. We focus on all the benchmarks for that. So we have classes around benchmarking and revenue. We have classes around benchmarking and profit and management of expenses. We have culture classes. And next year, we're excited to be launching a new series of classes that will take all of that from the salon level down to the team member level. So, you know, for the salons that are listening now, that's why having visibility and access for your team to those benchmarks is so important, because you can't just train on the behaviors, but you have to give them visibility on how they're tracking towards those. So that's what I do as a professor. I love being able to connect with other salons and help them implement the things that we know drive success. The interesting thing, Sadheer, is that when I was director of operations at JCPenney, the benchmarks themselves were the same benchmarks we focused on there. The metrics may have changed a little bit over time. Right. But the actual key benchmarks are the same. So that they've been around forever and we know that they drive results.

Sudheer Koneru: Yeah, good. I think the fact that your work at JCPenney had that structure around knowing how to track the business and all that, and then being very close, like as you said, Aveda is technical education wise, and the product and the offering consumers get are great. So marrying the two in terms of you driving some of their business. College work is great. Good to see that. So coming to marketing for Willow Salon. So I think you've been, maybe I want you to share how you approach marketing because your marketing is really localized to the Sacramento area. And you know, it's not just about spending money, how you're involved in the community and what drives results for your, for your salons.

Serena Paulson: I am a very big proponent of marketing. I think, I think collectively in our industry the idea of marketing varies, right? But for the way we treat our business is I use a whole host of marketing avenues. And the reason for that is not everybody is using the same source for their information these days. And so you've got to reach your guests where they are at. So of course we talked about rebranding and really kind of building up a brand in the community. And our uh, website, we also do have been, uh, we do a lot of PR campaigns and been on the news. So any fall trends that are going on will be on the news to talk about those. Which by the way is great in terms of marketing for talent because they love to see that and want to work at a place that does those type of things. We've done print media, we do email campaigns through Zenoti. We do texting campaigns through Zenoti. We also partner with, as I mentioned, the Sacramento Kings dancers. We do pretty much any avenue of marketing that you can think of. We have a social media specialist on our team that goes to the locations and creates content for our social media platforms. So it's really about putting out into the world all the things that you're doing within your four walls and that make people want to come either work for you or come get their services done with you.

Sudheer Koneru: Yeah, that's interesting. The notion of, you know, marketing is as much about attracting talent, not just about attracting customers. And I think being connected with media where it's not just PR where you are doing it, but it's in the context of, as you said, trends, fashion trends and other things. Getting your salon's name out there in those contexts in the local community, uh, does, uh, I guess make a difference both with customers and with employees. You also mentioned that I think you work with the local community, you know, some social work as well. Right?

Serena Paulson: Yes. I am actually currently the president of Impact 100 Greater Sacramento, which is a, uh, local nonprofit. It's one of 75 chapters worldwide. It is an all women organization and we raise funds to award other local nonprofits in our community grants. And so actually just in a couple weeks we're going to be awarding $452,000 in grants to local nonprofits. So I'm really proud of that and proud of the work that we do. It's very much our mission at Willow Salons to care for our community. And it's also part of the Aveda mission. And so I, you know, I do spend a lot of time supporting those efforts. I think that it's important in the community also that people want to support a brand that's supporting their community. And it's important to our team also to be giving back. And you know, we're awarding grants to food banks and, you know, to arts and culture type related things, to education, non educational nonprofits, things that are really making a difference for the future of our community. So.

Sudheer Koneru: So yeah, and I think that's a very good tip for anybody in a given city if they're trying to do like be one of the leading brands and work in that space. I think being involved in the community in terms of giving back in their own way, whatever is passionate for them is a great way to build awareness and support in the local structure. Right. So, yeah.

Serena Paulson: Great.

Sudheer Koneru: So one of the things I did want to focus on is you are being very focused on organic and, you know, friendly products for the consumers, post Covid, et cetera. Maybe you can expand on that. How, what have you learned about the products and you know, why, uh, you know, this is probably important for consumers.

Serena Paulson: Well, definitely we've seen post Covid health and wellness space, you know, grow tremendously. The idea of, you know, scalp health and so many different things going on in the marketplace. I think people in general, when, especially in California when we were closed for six months, not being able to go get those services performed made you realize what you were missing. But it also kind of highlighted the fact that what do I do at home? Right? What can I do at home to be able to focus on these things? So we talk a lot about the professional services that we offer in the salon and then what the guests can do at home to support that, to ensure that they have a healthy scalp, healthy hair. Um, um. And so that's really what Aveda products are focused around. Or they're very solutions driven and solution oriented. A hundred percent vegan hair color and products. And what I've learned about that, even through the use on my own hair and my kids, is how much healthier their hair is. You feel good about not putting things on your scalp and in your hair that could be toxic for you, especially if you have gray hair. And you're getting, you know, it colored every four weeks like I do. So, you know, I appreciate even greater appreciation for the products that we use, how they contribute to my overall health and the health of our guests. Maintaining the integrity of our guest hair is our number one priority. But I also love the focus that Aveda places on, you know, the, the health and wellness of our. Of our world, too. And where they're sourcing those products from is an important component of that.

Sudheer Koneru: Cool. Yeah. And even I have noticed that, by the way, because I started, you know, using some color product for gray blending. And then I found that, you know, if you were traveling and just happen to go to the wrong place, the quality of what happens to your hair stands out. I didn't realize that. And then I was in, uh, a Vader salon, Van Michaels Salons in Atlanta, and I really loved the, uh, end result of how my hair felt for many days. So something must be right about using the vegan friendly products and. Yeah, great. So one of the things we didn't touch on, like, you know, in terms of who you are as a person and how you built the business, you were quite influenced, I think, early on by your mom and growing up. And I want you to share a little bit around how, you know, early years, you're seeing others as role models and how it has influenced and shaped who you are.

Serena Paulson: I think that's a big, big part of what shapes us as people. My mom owns a marketing firm. She has for over 38 years. And I remember, you know, sometimes her picking us up after school and taking us back to her office, and we would do our homework at her office if she had a big project or something going on. But just witnessing her level of work ethic and commitment to what she was doing, a commitment to her employees, the care and concern that she had for employees. A lot of her employees that work for her today still have been there for over 30 years. And, you know, so when you're, when you're young like that, especially as a young girl, you're watching these things, you're taking that in, whether you realize it or not. And I've shared this with my mom as they've become an adult is, you know, I'm sure, I know she felt guilt of, like, I shouldn't have been working as much. I shouldn't have been home, or, you know, I still feel that as a parent, but that's not a quantifiable impact that you make on your kids when they are witnessing those things. Giving back to the community was a big focus for both my parents. And I would say that that is largely, in part, if not totally responsible for who I become as a person and something that I take to heart and trying to model for my kids because I think especially with these younger generations, thinking outside of yourself and for other people is a very valuable trait and something that our world is in desperate need of.

Sudheer Koneru: Yeah, cool. And no, I read also your mom used to help people who, you know, needed help in terms of getting them employable, getting them to work, hire them, and you know, builds a long term relationship and you know, with the whole ecosystem. So I think she was very active in many ways. And I guess you're doing the same with, uh, area of beauty and wellness. So. Great, great. So going forward, how do you see things evolving in terms of what you do, whether at, below or outside? What do you see your future role?

Serena Paulson: Well, I, obviously my number one focus is to continue to drive our salons forward and help our team grow. I, that is a huge focus of mine, is to help each of them achieve their personal goals that they have for themselves and their families. I love my more current work that I'm doing and helping other salon owners, you know, and kind of sharing my experience. I feel like also a big portion of my career was, was built on mentors that I had and people that contributed to my growth. I just love the idea of paying that forward and helping other people and sharing ideas and that they can use with inside of their own business. Um, and then definitely continuing the community involvement aspect that I've been doing over the last couple years. I really, that's something that really fills my cup in knowing that I'm helping other people. And you know, when you're working with local nonprofits and you're going to their actual sites and seeing the people that they're serving, it's a great reminder of the responsibility we have when we're successful to help other people. And so I, I think I'll continue to do that and you know, probably as time goes on, spend more time around, around those two things you, uh, know.

Sudheer Koneru: Of course we are all focused on helping clients feel good and walk away, you know, finding the best version of themselves. What do you do for your own personal wellness and well being in general?

Serena Paulson: Well, this is probably one of my opportunities. I am trying to work on finding downtime, but for me, I'm a pretty faithful person and so prayer is what I use when I feel overly stressed. I mean, I obviously do it all the time, but I find that it helps me center myself when I'm overwhelmed by something or just life itself or what's going on in the world around me. So that is something that I do regularly. I am trying to be better about finding personal time to decompress. It's not always easy when you have all these things going on. Right. And you're a parent. But I would say that prayer for me is the thing that I always turn to, to help me with that.

Sudheer Koneru: Cool. Great. I think, yeah. I'm also a firm believer. Wellness is not about just going and working out. That's. You're a very different answer. Most people, they're going to go on a hike, but I think you can find your inner peace in different ways. So I, uh, use breath work, and I'm also very spiritual and all that stuff.

Serena Paulson: So when you can do those. That anywhere. Yeah, I could do it in the middle of the airport in the car, you know, so it's a. For me, it's a great thing because it's something that I can take with me anywhere I go.

Sudheer Koneru: Great, Great. Is there a company, whether in the industry or otherwise, that has inspired you in. In your career?

Serena Paulson: I was thinking about this, and I would actually say, uh, I want to say JCPenney. And the reason for that is because when I was there for well over 15 years, the tenure of people that worked there pretty much their entire life was pretty amazing. My husband worked there 30 years, and I made such lifelong friendships during the time that I worked there. But the thing that stands out the most to me about that when I was thinking about this is the values that the company always, you know, stood by. The Mr. Penny in the middle of the corporate office. When I worked there was like a million square feet and this. And I would get lost. Right. Walking through the corporate office. And if you got lost, you knew to always find your way back to Mr. Penney's statue, which was huge in the center of the corporate office. But the interesting thing about this statue was his hands were kind of out like this, welcoming people in. But his hands were bigger than the rest of the statue. And the reason for that is that he was. He founded JCPenney on the golden rule to always treat people the way that you would want to be treated. And he used his hands in building the company to really facilitate that. And so as I thought about that, I thought the importance of even in my own company, staying true to your values, staying true to what you. The principles that you founded your company on. Because if you weave that like a thread through everything that you do. You can't, you can't help but be successful.

Sudheer Koneru: So if someone were today is trying to be an entrepreneur in this space, in a beauty wellness, what kind of advice would you share with them?

Serena Paulson: Gosh, that is a hard question. This can be a tough industry. Mhm. It's ever changing. But what I would say is I think it's extremely important to understand the business side, to properly understand the critical components that uh, not only drive revenue, but also that drive profitability. So many times people decide to open a spa or a salon because they love the idea of helping people or making people feel good or because they're really good at doing those things themselves. But there's this whole other side to that. To run a successful business, you have to understand it's critical to understand the key drivers that are going to help you do that.

Sudheer Koneru: Right. That's a good point. I think a lot of people start off in the industry, become very good. They love to do what they do, the craft, but they need to get good with the business side of it before they go jump in and invest their money behind it. Great, Great. What is the one reason, why, you know, people should choose Willow Salons in Sacramento?

Serena Paulson: People should choose Willow Salons because they are going to receive the highest level of service that they anywhere. They're not only going to receive an amazing technical experience in terms of their haircut or color, but they're going to leave feeling great as well. It's not just about looking great, it's about feeling great. And as, uh, somebody who's busy person, that two hours sitting in the chair should be a time that rejuvenates me. It's downtime for me to not only make sure my hair looks great, but also to give me time to spend for myself. And we talk a lot about that service promise with our team and making sure that we take it further than just the service itself, but about the evader rituals that we give them. The hand massage, the scalp massage, the moments of silence if the guest needs that. All of those things combined I think is what, what makes us unique and why we've won those best salon awards.

Sudheer Koneru: Great. So. So it's not just about helping people to look good, but they walk out feeling good. Somebody else I remember said they like to make people feel like a million dollars. That I thought was an extreme statement. But yeah, I think the whole industry is about that. I'm also a firm believer that what we do is not help people just look good. It's about how they feel when they walk out. So that's good.

Serena Paulson: Well, and if I could just add, you know, so many times I've heard stories from my team about things that the guests have shared with them, and we just never know what someone is going through. And those moments with their hairdresser really can change their outlook. It could change their life in a profound way. It could. It could help them through something that is difficult and that happens more times than we realize. And so I think that it's. I tell my team that all the time, you underestimate what you do for your guests.

Sudheer Koneru: Yeah. And I think because life has become for even more, very ritualistic. You go through things very fast, everything, so there's nowhere where you get a break. So when you're in that salon chair, it probably is one of the small windows where you break to actually talk and somebody is there to listen. And, you know, so it makes a difference. And in fact, Van also says that when somebody's sitting in your chair for that one hour, you know, it's a time to help them in all kinds of ways, not just there. So great. Is there any talking about business front? As you said, business is a big focus for you. Is there any book that has been a, uh, guiding book for you on the business side?

Serena Paulson: Yes. So I thought about this after we talked the other day, and do you remember the book who Moved My Cheese?

Sudheer Koneru: Oh, yeah. Yes. Yes.

Serena Paulson: So I was thinking about that, and I thought that is the perfect book to describe, uh, pretty much everything that's happening in the business world. Right. Because the premise of the book is if you are that mouse that cannot think about getting your food and your cheese anywhere else and keep going to that same spot, if it's not there, good things aren't going to happen to you. Right. And so I think about that even in terms of using Zenoti or really any part of your business, if you are so stuck in having things the way they've always been and not being able to pivot and think about, where is business headed, where is my industry headed, where is the world headed? Where are guests headed? I think of the example of Target. You know, they were the first one to have the Target drive up, which I'm really jealous about, because when I had little kids, I didn't have that. And so I. That was really painful. But Target drive up. Well, think about all the retailers that scrambled to compete with that. You always want to be the leader. Right. You want to be able to find your piece of cheese wherever it is, and So I think that that book is an old book. It's probably two decades old, but it couldn't be more relevant today.

Sudheer Koneru: And it's an easy read for anyone. I think it's a good, good suggestion overall. And, you know, talking of technology, real, as you mentioned about it, but for a small business, you've been pretty passionate to make sure you're using technology. Right. And maybe you should expand on that as to why is it important because you just have three salons. I mean, yeah, fine, I can run it, uh, in the place where I am and Traveler, but you obviously believed in technology being very important for you.

Serena Paulson: I think that if we don't embrace technology, we will become irrelevant. I'm going to tell you a story quickly. I had a new hairdresser that I hired, and I was in the salon a couple months ago, and it was only like his second day. And he looked at his books the next day, and he said, I don't have any clients on my books tomorrow. Should I just take the day off? And I said, absolutely not. Things happen while you sleep around here. And he said, well, what do you mean? And I said, well, we have online booking. Things happen while you sleep. So fast forward, you know, the next morning when I woke up, I pulled up my phone and looked on the app like, oh, God, please let there be appointments on his books. Don't let this be Murphy's Law. Right? And so, sure enough, he was 75% of his day was booked. And I think that's. So that's such an important example of embracing technology, because guess what? I know myself and probably the majority of the people listening to this podcast lay in bed at night and scroll through their phone. They purchase things on Amazon, they make appointments. Sometimes for me, that is literally the only downtime that I have to do a couple things that I need to do. And if those guests for that hairdresser did not have technology at their fingertips, they would have gone to a salon that did.

Sudheer Koneru: Yeah.

Serena Paulson: And that hairdresser would have probably not worked that day and made less money. And so, pretty much the domino effect of that is nothing good. Right? And so that's why it's so important to be thinking ahead and thinking about what are the technological components that allow me to meet my guests where they're at, which drive revenue. I say this all the time. Having a booking system that's a partner to help you drive revenue, that's open while you're closed, that's open while we sleep, is crucial to really driving your business forward.

Sudheer Koneru: Yeah. And I think, yeah, a lot of the customers, as you said, are engaging with your business, you know, online and through the Internet. So having technology solutions, which take away all the friction when they're trying to do business with you, is a good thing. So, Serena, thanks a lot for being a part of Growth Diary, sharing what you do, not just at, uh, Willow, but at the urban, uh, business college. And I wish you the best in terms of making a bigger impact with other salon owners as well.

Serena Paulson: Thank you, Sadheer. Thank you for having me.

Sudheer Koneru: Yeah, thanks.

Serena Paulson: Growth Diaries is brought to you by Zenoti.