Second Generation, First in Purpose: Wulan Tilaar on Carrying Forward a Family Mission

She was told actually first to become a domestic helper in Hong Kong, but actually she was a victim of human trafficking to become a prostitute. I dream about my great-grandmother. She was waiting in a window, black and white, and position like this. And the grandmother said, "You have to go. You must go because you have to change your life. This is your only chance, your one ticket." To go out. The Knoti presents Growth Diaries, the fascinating stories behind the best brands in beauty, wellness, and fitness, hosted by Sudhir Koneru. Picture a brand that does more than create products, one that creates livelihoods, builds confidence, and embodies the cultural identity of an entire nation. What began as a small garage salon in Jakarta over 5 decades ago has grown into one of Indonesia's most iconic beauty and wellness enterprises, rooted in natural ingredients, education, and the belief that true beauty empowers from within. At the heart of this evolution is a leader who didn't simply step into a family business but chose to return to it with the mission to scale its impact, modernize its vision, and empower thousands of women through beauty, education, and entrepreneurship. Today, Wulan Tilar, the chairwoman of the Martha Tilar Spa, shares what it takes to lead a generational business, build a purpose-driven ecosystem, and maintain a legacy brand relevant in a fast-changing world while staying true to its roots. Welcome to Growth Diaries, Mulan. Thank you. It's really nice meeting you in person. Yeah, finally. Yes. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. Especially right here in Jakarta. It's been a long time since I've come here. Oh, I see. I see. So hope you have a very good visit, even though it's very short. Yes. Yes. Cool. So, you know, it's very rare that I run into a business like Martha Tilar, which has gone through a generational change, like your parents started and you're fully running this business now. So I want to first start with understanding your background and how you got into this business. So maybe you can share a little first before you got into the business. What did you do in terms of education and your background a little bit, and then we can get into it. Okay. So I did my education with the graphic design and advertising background. I did my undergrad in the States and also the graduate school. In the States as well. So because of my parents, both are educators, I'm very lucky that they give us, the children, the freedom to choose. Even though they know, I mean, especially my mom, who is the founder of the company, they want us to do, to continue, of course, the business, but they still have give us the freedom to choose what we like to do. So coming from the design and art background, I really appreciate the beauty and through arts, through performing arts and so forth. And I think it also in the same time make my arts and my sense of aesthetic growth gradually. So that's what I did before I joined the company. But interestingly enough, since we were very small, my mom is consistently bring us to her office or in the factory or in the beauty school since we were little. So I think now if I'm think what she tried to do was, if we want to say, is brainstorm one. But no, in a positive way, She wants us to recognize since early time and also create loyalty of what she and her sister started in the '70s. Yeah, so I think that's why I started. That's nice. Yeah. That's nice. So your mom gave you the exposure to your business, but gave you the freedom to go out and get whatever education you feel like getting, kind of stuff. So you were in the US, in Boston. Yeah, in Boston. Finish your undergrad and grad school. And it isn't like you immediately came back after you finished school to start the business, right? You actually lived a life in the US. Yes, I want to try something else because I know right away that if I come back straight to Jakarta, my life will not be the same anymore. So I started my family in Boston. I gave birth to my first daughter and become a full-time mom, which is My mom is very nervous at that time because like, oh my, my God, if she really likes the role of being full-time mom, what should I do with the business, you know? So she's kind of a bit worried, but I said, don't worry, because I want to have my own time first. I want to try becoming a mom and then becoming a businesswoman. So at that time was granted. So I have 2 years, 3 years to experience becoming a full-time mom. So that's a good experience for many people who have family-run businesses. They want to have their kids get involved. It shows giving the freedom to the kid to go do whatever they want to do. Yeah. And then coming back is a good way to do it, like, you know, to give that freedom. So that's nice. That's nice. Yeah. Great. So then you came back and how did you get involved in the business itself once you were back? Where did you start? I started with joining the art department. So I thought at that time, okay, my background was design, so automatically go to art department to design packaging or advertising or something like that. But when I'm doing that for 4 months only, I know it's very short, I don't feel I'm useful enough or challenges enough, challenging enough that I can contribute more. You know, when you are young, you're fresh, you just like want to make a difference, you know. But in that, the same principle of knowledge that I gain, I don't feel like I learned a lot. So I just appeal to my mom. I said, I want to change. I want to move to different division. So I was looking which one is suitable for me. The first division was advertising agency. So I thought that it still match with my, you know, competencies. But I thought again, it will be the same mistake again because art division now is the graphic advertising. It's the same but it's bigger scale. So I thought maybe I should try something else. And then I look the opportunity into the spa and the beauty school. And then I feel like they need— this division needs nurturing. So I feel like, I think this is maybe the place for me to start so I can explore more. It's not only with the design part. Of course, I can start with the design point of view, but I can also develop something else like surface because maybe I'm a Cancer. So Cancer is the zodiac of nurture and surface. So I just find it out. So I thought that, oh, that's why maybe I, why I choose this division for for me to start joining and contributing to the company. So that's how I landed in the spa. And I believe once you did get into the spa, since you were not trained in the services of the spa, you actually made an effort to learn everything about the spa. So you actually have a certification in this space. Yes. So I feel when I started, I have no background of— I mean, since I was young, I know the environment setting, but I don't know the competencies and I don't know the knowledge. So I feel when I have to make a decision on how to improve service, on how to develop new treatments, I have no idea. So that's why I challenge myself again to do the CIDESCO certification for beauty aesthetics. And CIDESCO has a very high standard internationally. So it means that I have to do all the things that therapists does. So manicure, pedicure, facial, body treatments, massage, and everything. So, but I really appreciate that experience because I can put myself to the therapist's shoes. So I know what to expect and how to communicate, communicate better for them to be, to achieve their target. But most importantly, on how they can enjoy their profession because the profession of beauty therapy, hairdressing, or makeup artists, sometimes it's considered to be low, or people like tend to say, oh, it's just a hairdresser, it's just a masseur or a massage therapist. It's not a just. If you put competencies, you put your heart and soul to the profession by knowing the knowledge and the scientific approach, of that, that becomes very serious profession, especially nowadays, right? You have to know the pro and contraindication on how to handle certain clients and so forth. So that's how you put value on your profession is very important. Yeah. So that's an important point because I actually used to run spa myself and I used to attend some of the training classes because I wanted to learn how these people are. But I never actually got the certification like you did, which is to get the whole course. So that's pretty impressive. But I think you're right that relating to the employees and their role and making— because in a lot of the, especially in the Eastern side, compared to the West, a lot of them are treated that way, which is, oh, it's just a massage therapist versus giving it more respect, more qualification, more credential. And I think doing that and knowing that your business is largely a business of making sure you have great staff. You know, if you don't have great staff, you don't have a great service and a great product. So we depend on them. Yeah. So I can see that you recognize that very early. Yes. Okay. So you got through all this and you are now, you know, quite engaged in the business, but I do believe the business has been around for so long. Yes. There are people who've been working at the company before you were born, maybe, or you were a kid. That's true. So how did you engage with all these folks who are so much experienced than you? Yes, it's a very interesting experience when I first started off. I have to face and I have to relate to the therapist that is older. They exist before I was even born. So looking at them, I also heard things that, "Oh, what this small child can do?" And, you know, so It depends on how we react, basically. It's important. If we say we hear, we heard that as bad things or, you know, try to look down on us, then we can get so emotional. But I think we need, in terms of that, we need to take and give because they know how I grow up. And also, I also know how they contribute a lot to us. So the way I treated them, it's always take and give. We use now, it's the compassionate leadership they call. So it's a leadership using compassion rather than I'm the boss and you are my employees. So yeah, I heard negative things first, but I just say, okay, that's true, I cannot change that. But I learned on how to respect older older employees and how to put them as who they are in compassionate way. So I think that's the key. Great. Great. Yeah. So I think all the lessons around generational transition, which is, you know, being independent, going out there, getting your education, coming back, learning the business, really getting into understanding your employees' life by being in their shoes. Yes. And doing the work and You know, and then eventually knowing how to try, you know, navigate all these people. Very interesting, I'm sure, because there are many businesses out there I know which are looking at the same challenge of how do they do this. And your business has been around a lot longer than others. So that's good, good information. So now I did want to switch gears and learn a little more about, you know, the founding story of your mom and how did she start this. So maybe you can give color into How and why did she do this first store that she started a long time ago? Yeah, so my mom was a historian teacher, and when she got married to my dad, my dad got a single scholarship to the US with the USAID. So of course, they cannot afford to bring my mom to live together in the US. So separate ways for 8 months, and then my mom managed to go to the United States and accompany my dad. And during that His study, of course, being cannot, you know, my mom is very active, yeah, so she said that, "Okay, I have to learn more. Maybe I have to—" And then she interested in beauty, so she managed to collect money from being babysitter and work in college salon and then get the money and went to the school, the beauty school in Indiana, Bloomington. Oh, ne. Yes. So with that knowledge and competencies, then she worked in the college salon, also selling Avon, the cosmetics. So she was the Avon girl. So anything she did to get extra pocket money for the new family. So after my dad graduated in 1965, they went back home and then my mom decided She doesn't want to continue her teacher profession, but my dad continued as a government official. So my mom started with her new competencies. She wants to open a salon. And she started in her parents' garage. It's only 4x6 meters square. But since it's located in quite premium area in the center of Jakarta, where the embassy's residence and also the embassy's offices. So I think the salon picks up very well. And then using the American standard, right, with the cold and hot water, aircon, at that time, it was luxury. So basically, that's how she started the salon business. And realizing that she needs employees, then she start to train. She started to train the domestic worker, like, yeah, in the houses, or anybody who interested in. But she said that she needs more because the business is growing. That's why my dad and my mom thought that if we want to build an industry, we must build the people. So because they, again, they are both teachers, they believe in education can transform humans. So they started the beauty school. So that's how it started, from salon and then to beauty school. And then later they, they work together with Calbee Pharma, is one of the biggest pharmacy company, to build factory for cosmetics. That's in 1980s. If you're enjoying the show, we would really appreciate it if you left a review on Apple Podcasts. It only takes a minute and it helps others find the podcast. You can also follow along on YouTube and Spotify so you never miss an episode. So before they built Cosmetics, how many stores did they end up with on their own? Like, oh, the salons? Yeah, the salons, maybe 5. 5. Yeah. And all this growth from opening the first garage to 5 salons, it was on their own, not with any money from No, it's the family's money. So siblings, mother, parents, yeah, the parents and the siblings, they put money and then they just start the business for the salons. Yeah, it's interesting how successful businesses get built through, you know, unique situations where there's a calling of nature where, you know, your mom learned everything about the industry and came back and could start it in the time it was very relevant. So, And so when— but she did have this beauty school well before the cosmetic products. Yes. Okay. Yeah. And I'm assuming given she grew it to 5 locations on her own and I believe she was a teacher, as you said, so she must have been far more particular about training and process and how you treat customer. What is that? What happens? Because she must have books and all that for your employees. Is that right? Yes. Yes. Yeah, I mean, she, yeah, she trained herself and also she has a training as well. So both can help her to train more people at a time. Great, great. And most of this training at that time was, as you said, domestic workers who hadn't improved in their career, et cetera. But so outside of this cosmetic stuff, you said at some point she decided to start franchising the business. So how did that come about? I heard something interesting about your mom visiting Hong Kong. Yeah. So there's one event or occasion when my mom went to Hong Kong when she was being asked as a motivator speaker for Indonesian migrant workers. And in that particular occasion, my mom was called by one woman calling out her name and like, "Ibu Marta, Ibu Marta, I want to say something to you." And my mom said, "Oh yeah, what can I help you?" "I'm using your cosmetics." And then my mom saw her and she looked at her and she said, "Oh my God, her face—" I mean, she said in her heart, "The woman's skin was all wrinkled and old." And so I thought, my mom thought that, "Oh, she's going to complain about my cosmetics. It doesn't work on me." But the lady kept talking and then she told my mom that, "I'm now, I'm having HIV/AIDS." Because, yeah, she was told actually first to become a domestic helper in Hong Kong, but actually She was a victim of human trafficking to become a prostitute. So, she ends up with the HIV/AIDS just to support her family. So, with that event, my mom thought that, "How can this be?" You know, a lot of Indonesian people, women especially, young and uneducated, maybe not skilled well, just stand off like that and not knowing how life will be. So she thought that, "How I can change through my business? Small things, it's not going to change the world, but maybe if I can start with my own, it can change a little bit." So that's why that event really has become awakening for her. Then she said to the management board that, "I want to do something with this by train more girls, Indonesian young girls." to have a good quality of education and straight to the workforce, not have to go to the college and everything. So just train and work. That's why we decided to make our spa as franchise business, using a franchise business model. So, yeah. So that's interesting because, you know, obviously she was building a financially profitable and successful business for the first 5 stores. Yeah. But she completely changed her priority saying, okay, Wait, even if I don't make as much money, I just want to open a lot of stores and go into the franchise business. And yeah, it's a very noble way to look at impacting things because some people can look at giving money, I mean donating money to social cause, but this is even more impactful in the sense of how many jobs she's creating and how many people feel good about the lives that they have. And so And I hear that, you know, you, she ended up with an academy, which was very busy because she had to send people to all these stores, which were franchise stores, which are opening. So tell me, tell us more about this academy because it's not the usual academy. I mean, people think of school means people are to pay, they show up, there's a fee, there's a, you know, it's a business. So to sustain that franchise business, we have our training center. We call it the training center. Because it's free of charge for young Indonesian women, 17 years old, must be above 17. And then it's— they are— we train them as professional spa therapists free of charge for 3 to 6 months. It depends on how they can digest the information fast or not. And then after that, and the pocket money. And after that, they are— if they're already considered, not considered, but like graduated from the training center, then they have guaranteed jobs opportunity in our spas. Right now, our spa, we have 40 outlets across Indonesia, in Sri Lanka, and also in Brunei Darussalam. So in that way, yeah, the mission is how we empowering women. Of course, money is very good for donation. But it's only stopped in one time. But you give knowledge, you give opportunity, it, I think, it will transform human's life completely different. So, and I like that stories because profit and loss, so there is good, achieving target is great. But when I heard story about how this therapist can brought a piece of land for her dad, to work on, rather become somebody pay her debt to work in somebody's people's land. That's a life-awarding story for me. So maybe that's why I stuck here. I said happily stuck here. Yeah, yeah. So you must have many such stories of women who not only changed their lives, but their whole family's lives because of going through the process of working with the Martha Tiller Group. Yeah, the one that I just mentioned is actually our domestic worker. She worked with us very young, 15 years old, because the economic situation is not good. And then my mom saw her potential and trained her as a spa therapist. And then, yeah, there are, I think, 9 siblings, and she can manage to give proper education to her 5 siblings below her. And then a piece of land for her dad to work on. Yeah, so that's one story. Another story, our company collaborate with one of the biggest paper and pulp company in Indonesia. So, we recruit the girls from the foresty area. So, it's a forest and then the workers, yeah, of course, a lot of are women. So we tried to reach out and recruit in the foresty area. It's a bit far from the— in Sumatra. And then we managed to recruit 6 at a time. And then one time I talked to one of the recruit girls at that time, and I said, "Why do you have the courage to say yes to our training center?" Just out of the blue. And she said, "Oh yeah, my grandmother encouraged me." I said, "Why is your grandmother?" So it happens that her dad abandoned the family. He went off somewhere, I don't know. So the wife, the grandmother, and the daughter stuck in the foresty area. And the grandmother said, "You have to go. You must go." 'Because you have to change your life. This is your only chance, your one ticket to go out from this area.' I mean, it's not bad. That area is not bad at all. But the grandmother saw that you have to see the world. So she said that I was— it's kind of like dream bu, she said. I'm now washing my clothes in Jakarta and I have this training center, training session, this so forth and so on. It's like a dream. It's so unreal. Okay, so that's good. So I thought that you are very brave. Good for you. I'm very cheering up for you. Yeah, thank you for this opportunity. So now she is the spa therapist in our branch in Brunei Darussalam. So yeah, from the small area, really secluded area, forest, to at least she can see Brunei Darussalam. Yeah. And I think, yeah, that's true very much because even in my own family, my father was from a farming family. Yeah. Somewhere one person takes the leap to change, then the whole family's life and future changes. So similarly, my father chose to go educate rather than be a farmer. And that's how, you know, we all get the luxury. So I'm sure the work that your mom has done through the beauty schools is probably transforming many generations of families in terms of that. And what I also want to flag, make sure what you were saying, your beauty school is absolutely free. It's not like somebody pays for it. This is the training center is free, but my beauty school is not free. Okay. So both. Yeah. The other one is— So you have a beauty school and you have a training center, which is really meant for— Yeah, for the— Completely covered with costs and taking care of these people. Yeah. Cool. Yeah. Because otherwise making that change for those domestic to help people may be hard, they can't afford it. Yeah. So yeah, now we have currently 6,000 alumni for the training center. So yeah, my mom said it's not big, it's only maybe 6,000, but 6,000 is change, life change. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, she could have chosen to do more stores, make more profits. True. But she's touched 6,000 people's lives. So that's a big, big impact. So true. Great. Great. So, so once you've started franchising today, now when you have taken over the business, what do you— I mean, Indonesia is a very different country than the US, etc., but what do you have to do to support these franchisees? What kind of systems and processes do you have to put in place? Yeah, so we have, yeah, currently we have a team of operation team that handles several outlets of— so we designated person for that. For each outlet, also for the abroad. Also for the spa therapist, they depend on us too because the standard is there and the quality is there. So we have to support the therapist, the operational team, and also the products. Yeah, of course, the products currently is manufactured in our factory. So the whole system end to end is supporting for the spa business franchise. Yeah, of course, I would like to add the digital, digital management system that can help us to integrate and also to monitor how things are run because it's in different locations, right? Indonesia is so big. From East Coast to West Coast, but in the different islands. So yeah, that's maybe the next things that I would like to implement. So when it comes to doing things like marketing and acquiring new customers, what role do you, does, do you have to play sitting here versus what role do the individual store people play? Yeah, for we as the franchisor, yeah, we need to set up the whole marketing plan and everything, the design and the system. But we also, since it's so different in different areas, we also have to adjust for the buying power in each area. So we have to communicate in how we do marketings. We also have a national campaign, but we also have a local or domestic campaign that fits and suitable for the target market in specific area. Yeah. So yeah, there's a coordination between the franchisee and the franchisor in terms of marketing and communication. And going forward, now that you have this footprint, you're also exploring and building a new format, new holistic wellness aspects. Maybe you should share where do you see things evolving with Martha Tiller? Yes, in the future, we are planning to— yeah, it's not— basically, we are in progress of evolving from the spa to wellness holistically, using still our Indonesian culture and tradition because that's what makes us unique. And what makes Marta Tilar is that's our soul, Indonesia. It cannot be replaced. So Speaking on that, now people tend to find ways on healings or find ways for peaceful path using Jamu, for example. That's for Indians, is the concoction of herbs and so forth. Yeah, we also have that. And in India, of course, for example, you have yoga. We also have different techniques of healing and physical movement, but we just not there yet. It's not well known yet. So I think that's our job as well, to develop and to make people more aware on things that is already there in this culture, but not known or people not aware. So that's— I want to develop the wellness holistic concept for Indonesian based on the Indonesian culture. And this is more like you're doing this as a destination thing? Yes. For now? For now. So when is the first place going to be? Hopefully this year, because we're gonna— we work together with the FILAs now to provide the wellness services for the treatment and for the activities. But as for our own branches right now, we develop what we call Ethno Wellness treatments, which is already recognized by the Tourism Ministry. Is already declared because we cannot declare one Ayurvedic is Indonesian. No, cannot, because we have different tribes, we have different cultures. So we decided on 9 cultures that represent ethno wellness. So now every store or every spa, Marta Tilar Spa, you can try 9 different Indonesian ethno wellness treatments just exclusively in our spa. So speaking of wellness, and since you're passionate about wellness and you are a mom and running a business and schools as well, I'm curious, what do you do to take care of your own personal wellness? Yes. As I grow older, I start to train my awareness. So I started to meditate every day. I just started in 2017. So maybe that's the hitting rock point that I need to do something. So I meditate daily, and I also love to use different aromas, aromatherapy treatments in my daily life. I also learn different healing techniques from Japanese, the Jin Shin Jyutsu, or batch flower remedies, to incorporate it in my wellness and my holistic being. Because life gets harder when you're older. So there is no— it's not out there, but you have to go more inside. That's what I feel. If you go inside, it's everything inside, but you just have to recognize it. So yeah, that's how I manage. Yeah, I totally agree. And there's so many formats and programs in the world around the inner exploration of ourselves. So I think That's nice that you are really making that a priority for yourself. Oh, yes. Otherwise, it's getting crazy. Yes, yes. Out of control. So, yeah. That's great. Love the show? Leave us a quick review on Apple Podcasts. It makes a huge difference. And don't forget to follow us on Spotify and YouTube for more episodes. So given that Martha Tiller has been around for so So long, you must have customers when we were talking who are very old and then very young customers. So how do you work and make sure Martha Tiller remains relevant to both ends of the spectrum? First, we have to keep up the quality because wellness and spa, it's very intimate. It's in your, within your intimate range. So our customer is very interested, be interesting because from the grandmother to the grandchildren. So how we keep, yeah, first the quality of the service, quality of the therapist, quality of the products. Of course, now for the younger clientele, we need to add technology because of, you know, the convenience of the gadget, the website or application. We must adjust and to be relevant on that. So maybe that's the next thing that we want to approach seriously. But for the older generation, yeah, we take care as a family. So our guests becomes our family when they starting to forget things. I mean, I experienced that because they're getting very old. They started to forget things where they put their bags or whatever within the salon or spa environments, and they get angry and so forth. And but yeah, that becomes our the dynamics of our spa. So everything must adjustable, adaptable, sorry, not adjustable, but adaptable in order to make our spa or the business sustain for generations, like from the old to the young ones. Yeah, I think it's important as businesses grow over years. I had met some other business in London, which was also the same way where they had to learn How to adapt because it was over time, things change and with the generations. Great. And so we've been talking about your school and the spa, etc., but you also have a foundation. And can you give us more color into what— Yes. About the foundation? So my foundation is basically, the foundation name is Amalan Bhakti Ekata, which means Amalan is our names combined. So Alex, Martha, and Wulan, so is Amalan. And in Indonesian language, "alan" means virtue or good things. And "bhakti," yeah, bhakti in Sanskrit means my dedication to my parents. And "ekata" means unite. So my foundation is not a job, but it's my privilege as a form of my gratitude and my bhakti to my families. And how I manifest that is through two units. It's the Rumah Marta Tilar or House of Marta, which is our ancestor house, is 106 years old in Gombong, Jowatanga, and Ruang Bledjer Alex Tilar, which is in this place where we have podcasts, where we keep my dad's 10,000 books and 40 writings of his writings during his time. So in this foundation, it sounds very hard at first, but I think with goodwill and good people— I'm surrounded and blessed by a good team and good people all the way. But I think it's a blessing from above or my ancestors' blessing that with simple act act of kindness or goodness, it can go along the way. So when I started this foundation, it's actually I experienced one spiritual event. First time I went to the ancestor homes, I never been there even though my mom was born and raised in that home. And then I just saw my great-grandmother's room, but I didn't know that it was her room. So Flashback in 2004, so it's when I first came back from the US, I dreamt about my great-grandmother. She was waiting in a window, black and white, and positioned like this. And so I thought, "Wow, I never dreamt of her in my life." So that time I said, "Oh, I have to send prayers." So I did. And 10 years later, when I started the foundation, I went back to the house And it was that window, and that window is my grandmother's room. So in that moment, I decided right away, okay, I will take this job— not job, as a personal calling to do more about what is preserving heritage and continue the legacy of my family. So that's why the foundation was started in 2014. Nice. Yeah. It's beautiful how you've framed the foundation in terms of how you've named it and thoughtful around it. But it's wonderful that you've had this kind of a spiritual experience because it shows, as you said, there's a calling that you are supposed to unfold things in this life in a certain way. So I'm a firm believer of spiritual aspects as well. So that's nice. That's wonderful. And your mom still does visit the stores regularly. So I'm wondering, you know, what have you learned from her seeing personally in terms of how you execute your business? I think she is a great role model for us in terms of a businesswoman or a founder of her company. Her values is jitu, is discipline, jujur, is honesty. Iman itu, itu adalah the faith of God and innovation, perseverance, and ulat? Yeah, it's perseverance and commitment. So that's what I learned. That's the value of the company. But that's what I learned and witnessed every day until today. She is 88 years old and still goes to the office every day. With the same commitment, the same spirit. So I think if she can change a younger body, then she becomes more, you know, become young again and then just go and move forward. So that's what I learned from her. Great. That's wonderful that at 88, she still shows up every day at work. That is impressive. Great. So why do you think a consumer should choose Martha Tiller? Is authentic Indonesian, is a professional space, and is service from the heart. Great. Great. Is there, as you've gone through your education, are there any particular books or authors that have stood out which have been guiding force for you? There are a lot, but what comes in my mind is The Secret. It's a very, maybe, you know, but when I read that book, It just explained to me on how the universe works, the law of attraction and everything, and how we should think and how we should act, how we should relate to each other. So basically what we focus in and the energy flows, things like that, that maybe with my religious background it's not explained very well. So The Secret, the book of The Secret really translated for me in a simple way on how we should work with each other in this world. It's quite relevant and apt because in the space we are in, it's about, as you said, personal work and energy of people that you're interacting with. So, you know, The Secret and understanding how energy works is important. So I'm sure you have the right grounding on all that stuff. Great. Cool. Is there any particular business that you've looked up to, that you've seen, that you admire, and you've learned from the business? Since I was young, I always, I don't know, maybe because of my mom also, I also look up to Estée Lauder. Because it's something that I think, maybe because my mom admires, then I also become admiring the work. It's similar, almost similar stories with what she had, maybe that's what inspired her. But Estée Lauder also can manage through times and through generations and how things can sustain and relate to different generation is a very challenging, especially now with me, I have to do things like that in order for this spa can be more sustainable and go global. That's basically, even though we already have branches around the world, not around the world, not around the world yet, but it's there. But I hope with my leadership or my vision for the Mata Tilar Spa, Indonesian wellness can be more well-known to the world in the global stage. So that's what I'm praying and working for. Great. Yeah. Yeah, of course. Yeah, it's not very common, as you said, that Indonesian wellness is well represented globally. True. So there's definitely an opportunity. It's about you executing now. So if somebody was starting off in this beauty wellness industry to start a new company and as young in their career, what would you advise them? Because you've seen the industry and know quite a bit about the space. The first advice would be just be true to yourself. Whether do you really, do you really like Not like loving this profession because it goes along the way. Your breath, if you don't like it, your breath is only like last this much. But first, if you love it, it becomes not as a job or a burden, but it becomes your life. So first, you have to be honest. Sometimes people don't just follow. Oh, now coffee shop is booming. 'Just follow whether you like it or do you love it or not.' And you have to answer first. I think that's— it'd be the same with me too. Because it seems that first I don't feel like I have choice because I have to continue my family business. And since I was young, maybe before I was there, my parents already have like manifest in my brain or something. But now with the different awareness and understanding, I just feel that I just feel, I believe this is my mission in life. So first, I have to be honest whether I want to do this or not. Second, yeah, you have to have set of competencies. You cannot trust people completely without knowing the things, you know, the gritty and, you know, all the things that you will face because people will just say, "Yeah, everything good, boss. Everything good." And then there you are, you start failing. And the third one, you have to have good support system. So you have to have knowledge, you have set of skill, you have to have honesty to yourself whether you want to do this or not. Otherwise, then everything will goes along the way. That's good advice because I've done a lot of these interviews with founders and I've always found those who are very passionate about what they do, they love what they do, are the businesses which do well. If you don't love what you do, then you're not going to— It becomes a burden. Yeah. That's what actually what I faced when the first time I started the company because of my privilege, the big names. It becomes a burden somewhat for me. But one of my good friends said that it's just how you look at things. If you think that it's a burden, then it will become a burden. If you say, if you see as a privilege or opportunity, then it becomes an opportunity. And when I start to shift my point of view to become a privilege and an opportunity, then I work better, I feel better, I perceiving things better than when I saw that as a burden. So that changing moment also helps me a lot as a second generation. Yeah. Nice. And I think building a business is a long journey. So if you don't approach it with not feeling like it's a burden, it should be a pleasure. Yeah. It's hard to survive and sustain because you'll think you'll be finished in 2, 3 years and you'll make money. That's not how it works. It takes 20 years. And so you need to enjoy what you're doing. True. Great. Yes. Okay. Good? So yeah, it's been wonderful, Ullam, meeting you, learning about your business and the history with your mom's thing. And I think more than the impact of how much, how big is this business, the impact it's having in the world with women in particular really stands out for me personally. And, you know, really hats off to your mom for switching gears along the way and saying, no, I'll make this a passion about other women and not just about making money. And so I think it's a beautiful story. Yes. Thank you so much for giving the opportunity for me to share the story of Marta Tilar and I'm the second generation, and I hope this podcast can inspire more women leaders to make an impact on how she can change and transform human lives through their business. Great. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, thanks. Thank you. Growth Diaries is brought to you by Zenoti.