From Audit to Regulation : Modou Camara on Leadership, Governance, and Sustainability

Speaker A: Welcome to another exciting episode of the Future CFO podcast where we dive into leadership, career management and the latest trends shaping the future of finance. This podcast is brought to you by futurecfo.info your go to platform for practical finance and CPD courses. Don't forget to hit that subscribe button and share this episode with your network.

Speaker B: On the future CFO podcast, we welcome Mr. Modu Kamara, the head of the technical department at the Gambia Financial Reporting Oversight Board. Mr. Kamara is a chartered accountant with deep experience in finance, auditing and um, corporate governance across multiple sectors. An IFAC young leader collective founding member Modi is very passionate about transparency, ethics in Finance. Welcome Mr. Moru Kamara.

Speaker A: Thank you Mr. Saw, I'm pleased to be here. Uh, thank you, thank you for having me.

Speaker B: Right, it's uh, a pleasure for myself and our viewers and audience to have you on this platform. Uh, you have a very incredible journey, uh, starting with uh, audit and all the way today as the head of technical department of Gambia Financial Reporting Oversight Board which we commonly call frop. Uh, so I think it would be nice to understand what were some of those decisions you have made that sort of shape your career path.

Speaker A: Thank you uh, Mrs. Sawane and um, greetings to you and your viewers and again thank you for having me. It's really an honor and uh, privilege, um, you know, to be interviewed by someone I hold in high regard and esteem. Um, so for those who may not know, I was uh, actually tutored by Mr. Sawane, ah in my early days as a, ah, student accountant, uh, studying the uh, technician, uh, papers, foundation papers, NMATC it used to be called. Um, regarding my career journey and qualification. For me, ACCA played a, ah, crucial role uh in my career development, uh with the openness, willingness and appetite to, to learn, develop and challenge myself to contribute to my employer, uh, to the community and to the country and profession at large. Um, so it helps fundamentally in terms of psychology, um, to prepare one to be a complete finance, uh, professional, um, in preparation towards value creation and preservation and uh, meeting basically the dynamic challenges of our time and also to be forward looking, critical uh, thinkers. So in terms of how I started, once I completed my technician papers, I started as an intern in an audit firm. Uh, that's how I started my career journey. And um, I was then head, wanted to join a travel agency actually recommended by uh, mti, which is the Management Development M Institute. Uh, and there I finished most of my uh, ACCA papers and uh, by then I was doing three things mainly I was um, learning, studying my professional uh qualification papers, working and then lecturing uh part time. And um. That really helped me a uh lot partly. And um. Moving on uh. I also got again recommended to as a senior accountant at Lasting Solutions. Um that's I just spent briefly uh before I was. I traveled to complete my ACCA papers in the uk. Um and in the UK my whole outlook uh changed and um. Of course I would always recommend uh to students if they do have a chance not just to study but also to work uh if circumstances uh accorded uh because it's very, very important for me. It's like you're peddling two sides of the CV on on one hand you have the qualification side but on the other hand you also have the experience side which is very important not just to have a one sided CV but you can progress uh both sides. It makes you a bit more fine tuned professional once you are done right. And um. So in, in the UK again my m. Whole outlook, perspective, change um and and basically one's expectations and of standards and approach. Uh so even if even when I was working but still it was more or less like an added uh value uh so to speak. So I was involved ah there in the construction industry as an officer and um there basically there was a lot of engagement with customers and that also helped boost my interpersonal skills to some extent in that you would have that relationship. My journey was likely self funded. Uh but much later my parents were very key in my career progression and my Auntie Nafi which basically they supported me in the final push uh towards completion of my career journey. And to be honest I wouldn't be able to have done that without their support. Support. So before when I decided to return. In fact before returning I had uh an interview, a couple of interviews actually uh remotely before coming and then landed ah my job and uh as a senior auditor at DT Associates which is an independent correspondent firm of Deloitte. As a senior auditor when I had the opportunity to join fro which is the Gambia Financial Reporting Oversight Board especially with the work that they do, I had to oblige uh to the opportunity to common serve in this professional capacity as I am doing right now. Um, but yeah, thank you Mr. Sawane. I hope so.

Speaker B: Thank you. Thank you Mr. Kamara. I think uh journey which I, I would say many of us had and we will encourage from the key points of your introduction one has to do with if people can you have the opportunity is work and study. It helps your understanding of what you are even Learning. I remember when I was studying because I was working certain concepts in accounting and finance, I was able to understand them faster. Uh when I talked to senior uh colleagues in the office that was very uh helpful. And of course the support network you spoke about anti Nafia and the others are uh also very essential in one uh journey. So coming back to frog which you spoke about because the work they do that uh sort of entice you to work in uh Frog. We know Frog is not new but I would say it only recently started becoming more active when the likes of yourselves, Suleiman and Mustafa and the others joined frog. For some people still they may not understand what is Frog. Maybe in a summary, can you give us what is FROG about And also what is this technical department about?

Speaker A: Thank you Mrs. And actually I'm pleased to be here because now you're giving us a ah free advertisement because I've been on uh, I've been on tv, I've ah been on uh radio and we had social media handles, LinkedIn, uh Twitter and Facebook where we are trying to push uh basically enlighten, educate and inform stakeholders about what actually we do. So Forbes uh was established by an act of parliament which is the Financial reporting act uh 2013, section 48 uh s4 um however uh uh the board was inaugurated in 2019 and management uh retired in 2020 uh 2 mid 2022 actually and I joined uh somewhere down the line in mid June 2023 and uh part of my tasks was also to help push the agenda uh of frog, uh basically to enlighten, educate uh uninformed stakeholders about what exactly we do. So our mandate is actually set out in section 49 uh of the Financial Reporting act uh which is mainly we have the oversight responsibility of uh public interest entities so their financial reporting and corporate governance of public interest entities under our purview we have oversight responsibility over the auditing uh profession in the country and uh we have oversight responsibility over JICA which is uh section 49B. Basically just to paraphrase um, we are to ensure JIKA activities are ah in line or aligned to the standards and various requirements of ifac which is the International Federation of Accountants which I'm also uh recently appointed as a founding member of the IFAC, uh Young Leader Collective which ah one out of the 23 jurisdictions of Gambia is now represented on IFAC Young Leader Collective. But that's basically our mandate, our role um as from uh what we are tasked to be doing. So in terms of the department, most of the functions uh Of FROB would be shouldered by this very important department, which is the, um, technical department. Uh, and mainly will be channeled through. We have a board technical committee, which I am secretary through the board technical Committee. And, uh, I'm not sure if you're aware, we've also recently issued rules, we call them regulations draft, uh, which for them to review and comment. Because you do need these drafts, uh, to basically issue clear guidelines and expectations between public interest entities and public interest entity professional. And also PIE auditors. Um, what we expect of them in terms of, uh, carrying out, uh, their responsibility on the financial reporting, corporate governance and audit, uh, as well. But that's basically in a nutshell. So our role is basically to be carrying out the M and E, which is monitoring and evaluation activities of fraud. There's a very important body. It's good. I just make this very clear and I've been saying it in our, uh, stakeholder engagements, uh, called the Standards Committee. It's separate, separate from FROG and the Standards Committee. Responsibility, uh, includes adopting and issuing international financial reporting standards, auditing standards, isqm, which is the international standards of quality management and the development and issuance of corporate, uh, governance, uh, standards. So for us, our role would now come in, once the standards are issued, to be doing monitoring and evaluation of those standards. Whether the public interest entities are complying with those issued standards and whether the auditors are, uh, in compliance with those issue standards. And by extension the PIE professionals. Because of course, uh, these institutions, public interest entities, are run by, uh, professionals that will be involved in the financial reporting, uh, process. So mainly, uh, two things. The standards committee issued standards and, um, the rules that are issued by frob. These are two things we will be doing. M and E. Well, thank you and thank you for, uh, giving this platform to us also to raise awareness about the work that FROB does.

Speaker B: Thank you. FROB is very important because, uh, from the point or the descriptions you've made about frob, it is a critical element of our, uh, corporate governance. Corporate governance is something that I'm excited to always participate in a discussion because from my knowledge, I know it's the foundation for any country, for any organization. Anytime people come together to form an organization, what is the key thing is trust without trust, transactions among ourselves. And, um, therefore you need to have some rules, some regulations, some guidance, some best practices that will support how do we build this trust. So I see FROB is going to play a very key role in the corporate governance, uh, arena, if you may call it of the Gambia. And talking about That I know we learn a bit about corporate governance in school in accounting and finance. But I think it will be important to emphasize why is it that finance and accounting professionals should build interest in the corporate governance of institutions, especially uh, our public interest uh entities as you call them, your PIs.

Speaker A: Uh thank you. And you've raised a very important uh, topic or point uh which is corporate governance. So businesses exist to serve a purpose, right? And in most businesses that is reflected on their uh, mission statement. So they will have a mission statement in the private sector or public sector. When I say businesses I am trying to include all the public sector uh M and these purpose are normally reflected in their mission statements and guided by their value statements. That's a promise that they're saying in terms of how they would go about conducting uh the business of the entity. And corporate governance is the foundation. This uh, is built upon business uh, practices. So simply put it's the way businesses are run and managed. And uh, in particular I just want to focus on the public interest entities especially or particularly because of their size and nature. So it affects the lives and livelihoods of many. And uh, basically um, they are of interest to us as regulators entities. They're of interest particularly to the providers of capital. So uh, and there's reliance being placed on them by their service users and the interconnectivity between them and uh, their value chain. Okay so there's always that reliance and always sometimes uh, in even in government contracts. So if there are bits to be out depending on how your business conducts itself, there's that trust or added advantage to give you contracts because the way you're running the affairs of your business matters a lot. Businesses are ah the engines of a uh thriving economy and for us to promote sustained economic growth and in enhancing the lives and livelihoods of its residents. So just, just to also exemplify. So I've been saying the good stuff but to exemplify sometimes you could look at corporate governance. It evolved over time and some of the principles or stricter measures being introduced is because something had happened in the past that meant that look, perhaps the structures at the time were not adequate to be dealing um, with those issues that emerge. And you could look at uh, corporate governance scandals basically um, which meant that um, strong measures has been put in place. So you could look at for example Enron in 2001 M and you could look at WorldCom in 2002 uh and Pamela in Italy in 2003. So you could go on uh, making mentions or references of corporate uh Governance scanner. So this one's I'm mentioning they are even way older. But there are also more recent uh, emergence of corporate governance failures. If you look at Carilion for example in the UK I did m. Uh my rap which is research and analysis project, uh bsc, um project on Carillion which uh, went into, in the UK went into liquidation. And um, it's basically mostly tied into corporate governance, uh feeling uh, and that was in 2018 Karelian. So the negative effects is that it has severe impacts on, on the economy, on society, uh capital erosion, tax evasion, public funds misuse. And these are pertinent um issues. Uh and for me in terms of where the beyond professional comes in, um, it would be a rewarding career path, something very interesting for them to look at specializing uh, post their ACCA studies. Uh but they could look at corporate governance as a subject that one would want to specialize uh on. Just to try and add few more other bits. I uh, would just say one just to. To conclude uh, is leadership. Leadership is an important or integral part of corporate governance and it helps in value creation, uh and importantly in shaping culture. In shaping corporate culture, the leadership, it's very very important because you will look at what behaviors are rewarded or encouraged but also what behaviors are also punished and that will help in shaping culture. But that's where I would basically leave it as. Thank you very much for this very important question.

Speaker B: Thank you very much. Uh modu, you touch on a number of uh points that can be expanded into various other discussions. Your last being Culture actually is the foundation for uh, governance. We know when governance is there to build a trust. And uh, you give example of uh, companies that went into bankrupt due to some fraud, some accounting issues. But beyond that, even back in the Gambia I've made two or three senior officers in the banking industry who told me we don't have trust in the financial statements we receive. This is something sometimes it worries you because you have people preparing those account and you have uh, auditors signed on those account or so called auditors because not all of them are actually uh, registered in the case of Gambia with uh, with uh jigger. But I think these were the support of FROG will be very essential as in people supporting frog, government supporting frog, professionals supporting fraud. Because when FROB is there I can have a trust in a particular account and I can invest because accounting is just one thing but it plays a key role. People trust to invest. And um, part of this is culture. The transparency is part of organizational culture. But it's also Part of our way of life. So I think this is a whole different conversation. We can talk about the culture of business practice in the country and how can fraud or we, the professionals can play professional in supporting that because without them things will be difficult for us to achieve what we want as a country. And um, talking about that, I think if you talk about awareness of uh fro, Let people, stakeholders know what FROB does. And um, we talk about corporate governance, we talks about how people can specialize in those areas. So I put all of this uh, continuous learning because you can't learn everything in a class. We have uh, a group of young students in the university, let's say today, University of the Gambia or the American University. Uh, we have in the Gambia people studying acca. They may not study enough everything in the school. But continuous learning becomes a foundation. And I believe my own judgment. Some people, when they get those qualifications, they sit oh, um, um. And I have my masters, I have my, my first degree. I don't know how to bother much for you. Why do you think continuous line is important for professionals of all age?

Speaker A: Yeah, actually I, I like how the, the question floated nicely when you're now talking about uh, continuous learning, uh professional development. Very, very important. So one, one can even be technical, you can be technically minded, but you also need to learn the soft skills. And uh, with all honesty, if you're just learning in your career journey, it's unlikely you would have acquired those soft skills the only time perhaps maybe if you've involved in lecturing, uh, sl studying and working, you would tend to learn uh, this interpersonal skills and other soft skills which are necessary uh, prerequisites so to speak for you even to deliver professionally and give a diligent service. And um, so it meant that that's one. But secondly also things change. M. As we're speaking there are new accounting standards being issued. We have IFRS, S1, IFRS S2, uh being issued and there's discourse around sustainability and sustainability reported. So it's uh, it is that when you are professional and you want to do your job diligently and add value, it meant that you're also tasked to try to keep up to date so that you can give uh, proficient advice. And that is based on recent developments but also based on uh, facts and uh, trends. Um, just to add also in terms of uh, continuous learning or development is also a um, ethical requirement. There's an ethical dimension to it. So you are uh, by the iba, which is International Ethical Standards Board. You're Also obliged by the IBA code which ACC is also adopted for the PAOs, which is called uh personal competence and due care to remain up to date. This is a professional requirement upon us as professional accountants that we must keep uh up to date with trends uh, and developments to be able to deliver uh diligent service. Um, so there's that uh importance and of course um, people have passions and they will be driven for example yourself, well self driven, will go above and beyond to ah try and acquire new skills. And I normally follow uh your comments uh and podcasts which you said rightly, uh, personal development is a uh, personal uh responsibility. So this, these things resonate uh with me. Uh and then of course we all have a role to play. There's also a role to be played by employers for example on the issue of sustainability, sustainability reporting on the issue of new IFRS standards being issued. Um, you have IFRS 18, IFRS 19. IFRS 18 is looking at replacing uh IAS 1. So this would affect a whole spectrum of entities. So there would be need for investments for when you have budget sessions to now try to include in your budget reviews, um, this capacity development trainings that you need to be training staff to keep up to date with recent um trends. And they're not waiting for a particular company or waiting for a particular jurisdiction. Things are moving because in fact the truth is um, there are even faster uh, uh developments that are happening such as AI, uh for example that are happening. So it means we really being challenged um recently and we um have a higher stake basically to try and keep up to date. Thank you.

Speaker B: Yeah, thank you very much. I think my favorite summary from there is they are not waiting for a particular country or jurisdiction. Things are moving now. AI is moving, new standards are ah, coming and those um, countries, those individuals who learn to understand, to work with these tools or are uh, up to date with trending matters are able to get maybe better promotion or they're able to get better opportunities. They're able to serve their companies and their countries. And I think I very much agree with you. We have to continue having continuous learning because it's also a matter of uh, ethics. We have to deliver value to uh, our clients. Even if you are working for a company, in this case the company is your client. You have to deliver value to them. Imagine a it uh professional who is into managing securities does not know the latest security threat. Imagine a lawyer who is serving a company new law inside the country. So it's the same thing for us Finance professional that is important we develop ourselves. And um. Moving to your recent appointment as a IFAC Young Leader for me, which I see it as another journey or opportunity for you to learn since you're going to be networking with people all over the world. But maybe what this program about and what does it mean for you as an individual but for Gambia also as a nation having our own on the founding young leaders of IFAC, uh, Collective.

Speaker A: Thank you, thank you, uh, Mrs. Sarane. I am really honored uh to be a founding member of the ifac uh Young Leader Collective. And I would uh. Before I delve in, I would like to really send uh, my thanks and appreciation to the PAFA CEO. PAFA is the Pan Africa Federation of uh, Accountants alta, uh, uh, and then in uh creating an environment uh for growth basically. And um. So the IFAC Young Leader Collective um provides an opportunity for young finance professionals such as me and also aspiring uh accountants, uh basically the opportunity to promote and contribute the global uh stage. So um, I am one of the young ifact young leaders from the Young Leader Collective, um, from 23 jurisdictions from various continents, I think from Africa, only four of us, Gambia included in the continent. And um, the focus is basically on five key areas. Ah, sustainability which is number one actually uh current trend, uh, talking about sustainability and sustainability, uh reporting. Um then you have public finance management which is also an area of interest to me. Um, combating corruption, talent development and retention and uh, artificial intelligence. So this very 5 uh key focus areas that we are looking at. So the initiative in itself for me it's truly commendable and progressive. Uh because what IFAD really did, uh it's looking at it from the lenses of younger uh or upcoming uh finance professionals. So which I really support uh the initiative. And uh, we as uh accounting professionals we have higher uh responsibility in that most of us, well most entities have finance professionals and this issues talking about sustainability, sustainability reporting. Uh, we have as a profession, as an accounting profession we have a key role to play and what we're doing, we're trying to. We're leading the initiative when it comes to environment, uh uh, reporting aspects because really you can't improve what you don't measure. So it needs to start yeah these discussions and also disclosures around ghg which is greenhouse uh emissions, uh greenhouse gas emissions. Do we need to start these conversations and be disclosing it? And uh. The issue around sustainability more so is a. It's a global issue. And um, this global issue requires a global response. Um, even if you bring it, if you bring it down, uh to our level, if you have a particular country following protocol, a particular company following protocol in terms of disclosing uh, their environmental footprint and activities relating to the environment, but you have other companies that are not doing it or other jurisdictions that are not doing it. It's like you're taking five steps forward, maybe three step backwards. So it really needs that uh, collective push, collective uh, effort and also raising awareness. So in the point of awareness we've sent letters to uh Ministry of Education, a courtesy called letter, uh linked to of course this uh sustainability reporting. We've sent quarters to call letters to Ministry of Environment, we've sent quarterly call letters to nea, which is the National Environment Agency, uh we've sent policy call letters to and the undp, which is the United Nations Development Government, uh program representative to have this discussion so that there would be a concerted effort. We should be working uh, together uh, in really pushing uh, the sustainability agenda in this country as well.

Speaker B: But thank you, thank you. I like the IFAC agenda point. I don't know how they picked Gambia but I think this is a very good opportunity because fundamentally those five points are uh, all very critical. When you looked at uh, uh Gambia as a nation, what we need to work uh upon sustainability is an opportunity for the Gambia. We ah, know that there were some global standard or targets that were set. I think two years ago Gambia was probably the only country in the world that was on the track. Sometimes when I sit and um, think about it, say how are we taking advantage of this? Is uh there opportunities? Because when you understand sustainability beyond reporting other opportunities, you can structure financial products that we can take advantage of this because they are low cost funding. But if you don't create awareness, you train these bodies you spoke about, whether it's the Ministry of Education, whether it's the ne where they can be sort of empowered to line and development, to create structures, to create policy framework that enable us to tap into those low costs. Imagine in terms of funding our power problem. We all know how uh, our power supply is in the country today. We don't have to talk about that but it's a big opportunity. Uh, on that uh, I mean on that note, uh, one of the things we do here when we have a guest, we ask them a question. And our uh, last uh, is a strong solid lady, Ramatullah Nyang. She is also a finance professional. I think your parts have either crossed in the Deloitte. She was in Deloitte then and today she worked in the UK and also served as an executive Coach. So she dropped a question which we will ask you. And um, her question was in terms of flexible working arrangement, how can Gambia or how can Africa prepare itself in order for us to adopt to a flexible working arrangement? And um, to give a bit of background, one of the reasons why she asks the next generation, commonly called Gen Z, that are about to enter into the workforce, they need to demand this and if you don't have a solution, can we as a country find ourselves where we have label sitting in the Gambia but they're not working for Gambia and we don't have quality label. So how do we prepare ourselves for, for flexible working arrangement?

Speaker A: That's, that's. Thank you. I think it's a very interesting uh, contribution. I follow her on LinkedIn and, and the podcast she does as well. And um, I really, because I have flexible work, I've enjoyed it and I have seen, I've experienced how it could really help so both the employees and the employer so we can create a win, win uh situation. So it is my view that uh, especially for us um, that have experienced it, such as yourself and uh, Madame Yang and there would be others like us. So we need to really be raising awareness as uh, about the potential benefits and opportunities that this presents itself because talent now is not limited in a particular jurisdiction and as you put it, and you put it rightly, which is to say there's a risk that you might have young professionals uh, that are based here but working for companies abroad. And then basically that's, that's a, a uh loss of talent. And if you could even remember, I want to tie it back to ifact. One of the five points was talent development and retention. So um, uh the idea of flexible working would help us in retaining talent. Um, why do you have to have people spending an hour commuting to work and having, and spend another hour commuting from work back to their house. Um this is something that we could really look at and rethink and uh, also in terms of environment, uh, footprint because if I own a car and I drive to work, someone else owns a car and driving to work. So we could also look at it from an environmental perspective that you look,

Speaker B: you are

Speaker A: contributing ah to the environmental footprint that we could look at it and rethink it differently. Uh, I also want to look at digital transformation because um, flexible working arrangement needs to be rooted in digital transformation drive. And there are loads of benefits tied into this uh, digital transformation because for example if you look at it uh, it frees up at mean time and storage from having to deal with physical papers or documents that would be submitted to you. So we really need to look at the drive for digital transformation and saving on printing consumables which is even more environmentally friendly because you could, you could do, you could review documents digitally, you could approve or otherwise digitally and this can be done. Another one I want to talk about is the uh, uh, cultural shift. What I mean by cultural shift is it's not about the input, it should be about the output. And we uh, unfortunately have a tendency to check whether how many hours or when this guy is physically present. You know that has to uh, we have to move away, move away from that. Uh, so we all have deliverables. Is the, is the staff really delivering on those deliverables? He does not have to be uh, sitting at a particular area from uh, 8 to 5 or 9 to 5. You know, the 4 should really be on output, you know and, and that would help bring the flexibility working hours as long as they can push on these deliverables. That should be our focus. And I, and to refer back to your point again, I have a younger brother who is in the Gambia but also has uh, engagement outside and is working remotely. Uh, so he can do that. And that's a danger. Ah, we really need to rethink uh because as you put in Gen Z we're coming up with this. There's risk that look people, uh countries and companies, they operate across jurisdiction, across borders and they will be looking for talents to be manning this position just to add on other bits, uh, for example um, cyber security and cyber security education. Because some of the employers, you know, when you talk about this, they will be telling you issues around trying to retain certain elements in the analog or uh, all system kind of way and not wanting to digitalize. So there needs to be some sort of education also on cyber security and cyber, uh to, to basically promote why we can still maintain the integrity of data and still go uh, digital and have that flexible working arrangements. And for us recalling referring back my mind to Covid days back when I was in the uk um you would see Covid helped, really pushed the flexibility working agenda. Because of the pandemic people are really forced to, if perhaps a company was dragging its feet now it has more reason to go digital. And ah, the companies that were really at the forefront of flexible working or going digital, they were advantaged, there are advantages uh into promoting this uh, flexible working hours. Um and a final note or point would be on policy uh reforms because you can't really Push flexible working hours without looking at policy reforms. What do I mean by this is uh, in the issue of storage and document acceptability, what documents are uh, being accepted? So we should look at um, accepting digital forms as also acceptable documents and um, linked to that also we're talking about public finance management. It helps I can be remote and be renewing, for example putting passport applications online and I should be able to track where the progress or do submit all the documents. So it comes to acceptability of documents. But I would close with that. I like um, Madame Niang's question. I think uh, there are loads of benefits.

Speaker B: Yeah, I agree. It's very fundamental and uh, something smiling but sometimes also worries because. Because you, you gave a clear example of your brother who is currently working remotely. When I look at that, very happy for him. Great thing. But as a country we lost a one talent and that could be 100 of them in four to five time. You could have another 1,000 people in a country who are working for other companies outside and this would be brilliant young people. And what we will end up saying, we don't have enough employees in the country, but we have, you know, people. So we must create that um, policy change you, you spoke about. You must create uh, that awareness. And of course cybersecurity becomes very key if organizations are going into remote working. You must invest in the right system to secure your system. And I also love about the, the issue of paperwork. This is something we have to reduce. It's not environmentally friendly, but also it does not allow uh, certain flexibility. And that's why people are always want you to be in the office when you are everything on paper. There are countries today you apply for a visa, there is no paper at all. You enter all the way into their country, they give you a barcode, they scan. There are countries today you even enter, they don't even stamp your passport. They are going digital and they have all the information about you even in the office. This is a big opportunity. There are problems, but I see them as opportunity opportunities.

Speaker A: Exactly.

Speaker B: Uh, these things in the country from government, all the private sector to minimize the use of paper. It creates the opportunity for us to even have a very good audit trail. Because one thing I observed, it's easy to audit a system. What happened in system than Audi what happened on the paper? Because if I ask on paper, somebody will say I don't know. But system, most good system always have an audit trail who did what, who changed what, who approved what. But today go and ask some um, information in many Organizations both private and public. You won't uh, see the information you needed. Again, it's an opportunity that uh, our colleagues and um, friends in the IT world and the governance world can take uh, an advantage of. Now my next question is about the future of uh, finance. We spoke about a uh, number of things uh here has to do with the past and the present and of course some of the conversations we did, they are going to affect the businesses in the future. But what are your views? Are some of the things that are going to influence the future of finance?

Speaker A: Yeah, thank you. I think it's a very good uh, question. And for me number one, I would say sustainability and sustainability reporting, it's here to stay. I think that's why partly IFR is looking at young finance leader collective because you can look at it from our lenses because this is something that would continue to be relevant in our time. But also secondly, um, is the use of artificial intelligence, AI. We really need to see how to embrace and uh, organize ourselves in accommodating uh, the use of AI. We could look at it from an opportunity perspective and it could really reshape how we work. For example, instead of working five days we could think of working three days because again it's not just about the input, it's about output. And really AI could help complement or supplement a lot of what that we do and it could basically help improve our standard of living. Um, and then basically something that again in the future it would be more prominent, um, it will have a more prominent use, uh, data analytics, uh, as well I believe would have relevance uh, in the future. If you look at universities now, they're offering courses or master's programs in data analytics, uh because there's that recognition that there's an increasing trend and need uh, for the use of data analytics. You could look at Amazon for example, um, your viewers if uh, some of them would have used Amazon, uh, so if you look at an item for a particular time, maybe a week or so, um, it would then try to pre suggest similar items. So there's that intelligence, there's that analysis of data things that you looked at and from human activity. There are loads of things that we do that really uh, data analytics could help organization uh, in predicting uh, customer behavior and it would help reshape our value, offering to our customers to be able to better meet the needs of our customers. And I just want to add uh, IT and the use of IT skills, ah, my days, um, ACCA papers like the Level 2, uh, and onwards, the professional levels as well they were all paper based. But now if you look at it currently the AC program have uh, now gone computer based. What that means is in addition to having the technical skills, a student a would have an advantage who can type faster, can navigate through windows faster compared to someone who perhaps do not have the same uh, set of skills. And it will go into real, you will go with that, into real world practice. So the moment you have those skills you can navigate. You could use AI, you could use um, other softwares that could help analyze data quicker, you would get more insight. So that would play a prominent role and but that's where I would leave it. Just as a final word of advice is just to be uh, proactive uh, in learning and have a uh, can do attitude as well. Thank you.

Speaker B: Thank you very much. Mr. Kamara, I think the point you've mentioned on the future of finance being influenced by the sustainability is already here and is going to continue expanding and AI is also here, is everywhere in our houses, in our companies and it's going to continue. And I like the idea that you recommend for people to learn to understand these applications for, for their, for their use. I mean I remember in 2020 when it was Covid, one of the things I did was to go and study Python with data science. Not because I want to be a data scientist, but I want to understand how those people think. Why did they uh, sort of support or promote these ideas of uh, data science and exactly the examples you gave were one of the case studies we did about how do we predict customers demand with a uh, Python programming language. According to a recent report by the World Economic Forum, it says that about 27 million jobs could be impacted in 2027, 2028 and of that it includes jobs like uh, accounting clerk, secretarial. Many other administrative jobs are going to be impacted. But of course people can reskill. You can reskill. If you are a cashier, you can learn to be an accountant, you're an accountant, you can learn to be a salesperson, you can learn to be a cfo, a tax manager and the like. I think before we come to the conclusion, maybe I will first ask you what question would you have that we can ask our next guest, whom we do not know yet, but when we have that guest we can say Mr. Kamara, the head of technical department at FROB has this question.

Speaker A: Yeah, for me my question would be um, how do we embed uh, work, life balance, um, in, in a work environment, uh, to improve productivity? That would be my question.

Speaker B: M. That's a very powerful question and I'm not surprised coming from accountants because we are very well known. We don't have a work life balance month end closing and now we are auditing. So most people are going to be that sleeping in the, in the office. So, so I think it's a very interesting question. So once again thank you very much for being here. But before you close I wanted to give any closing thoughts to our uh, viewers and our audience more especially the young people, those going to school or those who are just starting their career in finance or in any business related program.

Speaker A: Thank you. I would say uh, find a mentor uh, which is very, very important. Find a mentor that would help you, who help guide you because the idea is um, what you're experiencing today, it's likely that um, you have senior professionals who've already experienced that of course gone through certain channels and that would help them, guide them basically. And you look at it from a resource perspective. These are resource perspectives that they can assist you uh, in achieving similar results even faster or more, more in an expedient manner. But also don't always be demanding, try to also offer uh, help or helping hand because uh, for you it's personal development as you would normally uh, put it. It's personal development for you because you're offering help and they could, they could really give you tasks that can help you develop yourself. And I think it's really a good opportunity for one to, to follow uh, pr. Ah just as a foreclosing thought. Don't leave your PR as ah last minute. Um, I know of course normally in your journey to be a qualified accountant we're always busy and focused on uh, the exams uh itself. Um, but I would encourage uh, aspiring accountants to be looking at the PR requirements even if you don't complete them, but at least look at them so that you know what they are and it would help guide you in your career choices. Because if you're looking for a particular employment or you're faced with a choice, you could look at the par requirements and see what particular job role really suits uh this uh, or those particular requirements. So it could be informed, it could make your informed choices. But thank you very much for having me and thank you uh, uh, for uh, the platform to talk about from uh, my role and what exactly that uh we do. It's really appreciated Mr. Saudi.

Speaker B: Yeah, thank you very much Mr. Kamara. It's really a pleasure having you here. Indeed we are happy to welcome you back another time. Thank you.

Speaker A: Once again this podcast is Brought to you by futurecfo.info your go to platform for practical Finance and CPD courses. Don't forget to hit that subscribe button and share this episode with your network.