# 24 - The Why Effect with Nicci Stewart

I believe that if we're going to find excuses, we will always find excuses and does need to be a conscious decision. And I think it's something where we need to, throughout our lives, regardless of our circumstances, almost check ourselves regularly and go back to this intentional creation of the life that we want to live. Because although, I mean, using, let's stick with the example of being somebody who has to support a family, there are ways you can transition out of a career into running your own company and decrease the risk.

Hey, I'm Julia Lopez, communication architect, international speaker, author of Leading in High Heels and your host. Welcome to Brave, Bold and Brilliant Podcast. Together with my guests, I will share with you inspiring stories where being brave and bold were the trigger to becoming brilliant. For the past decade, I've been helping professionals to express themselves with clarity and confidence in any stage and arena of their lives.

Communication is key to success And stories have the potential to transform lives and move people into action There is someone, somewhere, who needs to hear exactly what you have to say Be brave, bold, and brilliant And speak up unapologetically Hello everyone there, you who are passing by this space right now. It has been a long time that I've not been live here, and especially with a guest. And we decided that we are bold enough and brilliant enough to share that with you. First, let me introduce my guest here for you today, Nikki Stewart.

Nikki is from South Africa, right, Nikki? That's right, yes. Exactly, South Africa. Nikki helps her clients incorporate their sustainability practices into their organization and individual brand equity.

The process starts with internal stakeholders attracting and retaining value-aligned talent, then moves outwards to clients and potential clients. She has over 20 years experience in communication and brand building, and 15 of those years we spent focusing on integrated and sustainability reporting and business strategy and growth. She is the host of a weekly podcast called Nikki Chats 2, a platform that gives a woman the opportunity to share their views and change people's perspectives and broaden their horizons by giving them new insights into different topics.

and today Nikki talks to me and what were the brave and bold actions she took that built her into becoming the brilliant person that she is and you're just about to discover. Nikki, welcome. Talia, thanks very much. It's such a pleasure to be here and it's always an honor for me to be talking to bold and brilliant people like yourself.

So thank you for the opportunity. My pleasure, likewise. So tell us, tell the community, people passing by in this life right now, what were those brave and bold decisions, things that happened to your life that led you to become the person you are today? I think one of the things that's always driven me is this desire to make a difference, to leave the world a better place than what I found it, to right wrongs.

I've always had a tendency to fight for the underdogs, to fight for people who I don't believe have a strong enough voice or are, for whatever reason, not able to speak up for themselves. As you mentioned, I'm from South Africa and, you know, we have quite a complicated history in terms of apartheid. I grew up during apartheid and was about 12-13 during the transition from what we call the old South Africa to the new South Africa. So I was always very aware of the privilege that I had because of the color of my skin and became more aware the older I got of how I could use that to make a difference and make an impact.

So one of the key things that drives me has always been this this incredibly strong strong desire to make a difference and I think that that puts you in a position where you sometimes take risks that don't always pay off a lot of the time they do a lot of the time they don't um so I think that that was a definitely a key a key driving force for me and then I think you know based on I mean I've I have a very specific lifestyle I don't have children. I don't have a big family that I'm supporting.

So I think that also gives me a different level of risk aversion to somebody else. And it's important for me to acknowledge that because there's so many women that I meet who would love to take certain chances and do certain things that the world would consider brave and bold, but they're not able to because of their circumstances. And to me, that's also a brave and bold decision to decide that actually, I need to possibly stay in a corporate job because I need to earn a certain salary in order to support my decision.

So, sorry, to support my family. So, I think that's the way my life has been set up has also allowed me to make those bold moves. I like that you make those points because I'm in the same position as you in a way I also don't have children so I don't have a family that I need to support as well so in a way you can consider somehow privileges however I do believe that sometimes ladies out there, mothers don't throw tomatoes at me here that they use also this situation as being mothers, having a family almost as a shield for not taking action because it's kind of I can't it comes together I think with this syndrome I call of women putting others as a priority then I believe I watch for my friends around me who are mothers.

And also, of course, I don't have children, but I'm a daughter of someone. And they're watching, remembering my mother. And when mothers always put everybody else as a priority and put them behind. And I used to say, and I say and I repeat that, that we always have to be our priorities.

If those decisions, as you said, are done really consciously, like saying right now I want to focus on my family, I want to focus on my children, I want to focus on supporting my husband because of that, I applaud that. But for me, the risk here is always, you always need to reassess if that is your conscious decision or if it's just because you feel like you have in your position, you have to put everybody else in front. And I say being a priority is not about being selfish.

It about self So what have you experienced with that with your community I believe that if we going to find excuses, we will always find excuses. And I fully agree with you that this does need to be a conscious decision. And I think it's something where we need to, throughout our lives, regardless of our circumstances, almost check ourselves regularly and go back to this intentional creation of the life that we want to live. Because although, I mean, using, let's stick with the example of being somebody who has to support a family, there are ways you can transition out of a career into running your own company and decrease the risk.

So make sure you've got a good base set up. you've got savings in place, you've potentially built up a bit of a client base before you leave, there are ways that you can do that. And I think it's about taking stock of our lives with intention every now and then to make sure we are moving forward. Because what you're talking about is it's basically stagnating.

It's too difficult to leave because of my children. It's too difficult for me to leave because I'm a single person who doesn't have children. So I've only got one income, I can't afford to lose my income. If we're going to come up with excuses, they're always going to be good excuses.

So it's checking ourselves in that notion of am I moving forward and am I moving forward in the direction that I want to. And I think this was one of the very strange and wonderful gifts that a situation like COVID actually has given us because I feel like certainly in my community, I mean, I don't know what it's like in yours, but the conversation of intentionally designing the life you want to live suddenly became a lot more prevalent than it was three years ago. You know, all of a sudden people were going, hang on, do I want to live in a specific city?

Do I want to live in a city at all? You know, did I just fall into this job and then got comfortable making money here and got comfortable doing this this type of work I mean that was something that I experienced for myself I mean I worked for myself during COVID and I actually had to sit down and reflect on how did I end up here and did I just end up in this this life and this path that was maybe at some point I started creating it intentionally but then I just sort of got to a point where I had to go with the flow and I've now been flowing for so long that I'm not controlling where I'm flowing I'm just going with it which is not ideal and that's when we start making excuses you know I can't do this because I'm self-employed and I can't take the time off work and even under those circumstances we stop making ourselves making ourselves a priority.

Absolutely. The COVID really changed our lives. And I think it was a very clear and other face call of like, you have just this life and can be taken from you just like this. You have to set your priorities.

It's exactly what you're saying. And on that note, because my community is mainly women and being fair with them and saying that we women don't have the things easy in most cases and comes from the environment, the professional environment we live in, the cultural, the patriarchal culture, all these kinds of things that we know. This is why communities are so important for us, that we develop, that we are part of communities that can give us this support. And when we were talking before being here, we talked about the sisterhood thing.

And before getting there, I'd say, and back on what you said on this, that women are having these reasons, quote, quote, excuses. Here would be my call of attention to them. that communities are the environment that will help you to overcome those doubts. Because also we tend to, and many tend to believe they have to sort it out, everything on their own.

We don't. So we don't have all the answers. And we need those groups to support us, to even help us to see our brilliance. because we tend not to be able to see it because also we're very modest we are not used to talk about our accomplishments accomplishments and if we don't express our accomplishments maybe we don't even we are not even aware of them so as much as i love communities i mentioned to you that I am very careful with the sisterhood thing.

And from my experience, and I want you to share yours, because I believe that we women need to have an approach more pragmatic to certain things, especially in the professional environment. We are very nurturing. We like to stick together. This is an inner thing that we have, natural, without even thinking.

But I've seen in my environment, in my communities, in networking, because I relate mostly with women, where it's like a solution to a problem, to a situation, is given with a tap in the back or with a hug saying, oh, don't worry, everything's fine. Think positive. Things will change. And I am a believer that as much as we have to build the mindset towards being positive, to become stronger, to become more resilient, I'm also pragmatic enough to, from my experience, to know that things don't work with only a tap in the back in a nice world.

So what is your experience of that? So, Tilia, I'm so thrilled that you asked this question and you asked it in the way that you did, because this has been a journey that I personally have been on in the last two years. And it started with getting involved in life coaching and really digging deep into this journey of personal development, because there are a couple of things that I've learned about myself. And the one is, it's very easy to go and say that I'm drowning when I haven't told anybody I'm drowning.

And nobody actually knows that I can't even swim. So I have to accept responsibility for asking people for help. And a perfect example of this, going back to 2013, I broke my ankle. And my brother and sister-in-law came around to visit me.

and I think they came out on the Sunday so I had been out of hospital for less than 24 hours after three and a half hours of ankle surgery and my brother said to me well how are you going to shower so I said no that's fine I've got these plastic garden chairs I can just put one in the shower and then I'll be able to sit down and he said to me well let me sort that out for you and you know that I turned around to him and said don't worry I'll do it here's my big six foot three brother who's offering to pick up a plastic garden chair and put it in my shower and I'm telling him it's fine, I can do it myself.

And that was the story of my life. Even when people offered help I was reluctant to accept it let alone to ask for it So it exactly as you say we need to accept responsibility for asking for help And when we get that help also realizing and this was another massive learning curve for me, was stepping out of victim mode and realizing that I am 100% responsible for creating my life. Yes, there are things that happen around me that I cannot control, but I can control how I respond to them.

And when I look back on my own life, there were definitely key decisions that I had made and actions that I had taken or more importantly had not taken that had gotten me to where I was. So when I was looking at my friends thinking, wow, I'm so envious of her life. You know, she's seemingly got this fantastic life and this great career and this great income and this great job. But that particular person had designed a life and made certain decisions and done certain things to get there.

And I hadn't done those things. I was more than capable of doing them, but I hadn't. You know, so I think that's where, and I fully agree with you that sometimes we need we need to be a little bit harsh and that's why I loved what you said about this notion of the sisterhood that this this expectation that because you're a woman and I'm a woman therefore you are going to yes absolutely give me a leg up but you're not going to give me a leg up under any circumstances I need to be responsible for making sure that if I am going to show up I need to show up with the right skills?

Have I made sure I've got those skills? You know, you can't sit there and tell me that when you're in a business negotiation, you always overrun. Well, what steps have you taken to learn negotiation skills? How many times have you said to a colleague, can I sit down and practice negotiation with you and be harsh so that I can learn how to fight back or how to handle aggressive people.

You know, we've got to accept that responsibility for ourselves. And I've also learned the danger of surrounding myself with what I would call echo chamber people, with people who think like me, who always agree with me, who see the world the same way I do. And the most valuable people in the sisterhood are often the male allies. and sometimes not even the male allies sometimes the chauvinistic misogynistic ones because those are the ones that can teach us how to how to navigate these and suddenly having a conversation with that I would have with you for instance as a female where we both in reinforcing each other's views about pay parity for argument's sake why not have those discussions with male allies with people of a different race, with people from a different country, a different company, the value of actually getting those challenging inputs, that's what shifts our perspective.

And that's what makes us suddenly go, hang on, I hadn't thought about that. Whereas if we get stuck in this sisterhood, slapping each other on the back and constant positive reinforcement, we're never going to see those different perspectives and if I've got to fight for something the more perspectives I know the more effectively I can fight for that. Absolutely good that you say that because there's one thing here that I've noticed in the past few years. Minimal let's say about 10-15 years ago we were talking about women empowerment empowerment that even I got tired of the word empowerment and then now we are over that but we are in this that we diversity and inclusion so we want more women we want to see more faces i'm all for that however as i work with women i study human behaviors and especially women behavior and one thing i've noticed as well and i'm back on the same note of what you're saying.

This is what I say to my clients and students. Every room is a container with its dynamics. And the professional environment, whether you're an entrepreneur, whether you work in a corporate, whether you have your own business, there will be containers that you step in. So if you want to be part, to become part of that container, You cannot just assume, and that is where I fall in this diversity and inclusion, because now we need more women that everybody will welcome just with open arms.

As in everything, you need to gain that space. and to me it's like you need to be aware that you need to learn those dynamics first and then how you can play in that dynamic and once you master that playing is when you start putting your cards at the table which I mean it's like learning any kind of game you don't sit to play cards just expecting to win without knowing the dynamics it's just common sense but often I see the opposite I see women frustrated because they are pushed also in leading positions because the companies need to tick boxes and the environment are not prepared to have them and they are not prepared to get into the environment so nothing happens there just frustration for both sides.

One side thinks of, who is this person here? Especially if the dynamic is more male-dominated. It's really irritating to have a woman. It's like if you think when you're growing up as a teenager, the girls and the boys.

We don't want the boys with us when we want the boys when we want the boys. But not all the time, right? So it's understanding those dynamics that is so important because I see like very capable woman in leading position is still struggling because even like I had an experience with one amazing woman she is going to the senior level but she was telling me her difficulties in the typical having a voice at the table when there was a meeting because the man never allowed her to speak and she didn't know how to break that right and i after our conversation there was there was one moment um when i was explaining to her giving her some ideas how to learn how to play those cards and this is said to me oh but you know my my way of leadership is different i want something more more nurturing, more feminine.

I'm all for that. But you cannot just come with that. In the cage of lions, you're going to be eaten up. You need to learn where you are getting to.

Because also, it goes back to what you said, taking responsibility consciously about your actions. Because if you really, really only want to be in this position where you can put into practice your feminine, your nurturing leadership, you might have to re-evaluate where you are, which company you're working. Because then you might see that this will never happen. So it's all this understanding of the one self in the container, the environment we're in.

And I still find that we will go through the woman empowerment. We have many women there but there is still like this mismatch of expectations from both sides And I am in my job my mission is to help them to get into putting their foot in those places but feeling strong and confident what is your experience on that absolutely I fully agree with you and I actually recently had a discussion well via the comment section on LinkedIn, where somebody had posted, it was a couple of weeks ago, where Elon Musk was quoted as saying, you know, all of the executives of Tesla had to go back into the office for 40 hours a week, and they were manufacturing.

And because of that, you know, this remote working system didn't actually work. And, you know, he was being heavily criticized. And the comments were quite varied and this gets back to exactly what you're saying where if this environment is not right for you, if you are not the sort of person who wants to be working in an office for 40 hours a week post-COVID where we have started working remotely, this is not the right company for you. You can have all the technical skills but the political landscape of the company that you work in is the other 50% of your job and it's up to 50% if not more you can have the technical skills but if you don't have that the right culture fit the right skill set if you want to lead differently to how the existing leadership are doing things and you're not in a position to change that, either accept it and fight it or move on.

And once again, it gets back to making conscious choices and consciously designing the life that you want to live. If you are the kind of executive who believes that you can function perfectly in a remote working or a hybrid working environment, you want that level of flexibility for whatever reason you choose, then make sure you're designing your life around that. If you want to actually go in and go, no, I'm going to fight this, I'm going to change it, I'm going to go into that cage of lions, accept that that's where you are going and understand the skill set that you need to fight those lions.

And maybe you can use, of course, your nurturing side and your more feminine leadership style, absolutely, but understand you're going to have a battle so it's it gets back to this and I feel like I'm repeating it but it's this constant am I actually where I want to be am I happy in the environment that I'm in and if I'm not happy am I willing to do something about it am I prepared to do something about it do I want to do something about it yes no move on or stay where you are make that conscious choice.

Absolutely. And that is where I, the good communities support that you build around you can help you in making those decisions, finding new resources, seeing new perspectives, because alone is difficult. When you're inside the problem, you need to take yourself out of the problem in order to see it in a more pragmatic way to be able to solve it. But that is difficult because you are emotionally involved in the problem.

So this is why the good communities are essential. But with all due respect to the sisters, not that sisterhood of just tapping the back and giving the show. We love that too. But everything has its place.

And in a place, in a work environment, I do believe we still will find more cages of lions than a more comforting environment embracing us and telling us, come and share your wisdom, like as we are in the forest or surrounded by a bonfire, sharing stories. Because I think we women, we have in this, let's be a little bit more mystical here, in our feminine inner mystical power. We have this thing built in us that we love this environment where there's mystery, there's mystical things, there are sharing stories, there's the old lady who knows it all.

You know, do you have the support from the other ones? All these kind of things, I see it happening, and I celebrate that as well. But I say, unfortunately, we can not yet, not yet, maybe in the future, translate that to the environment just like that. And I see this very much with, especially with entrepreneurs, solo entrepreneurs who are starting the business, that they want to bring this fresh, new, but then they face the harsh and hard reality.

and this would be my call of attention to them so because many at the end like after a while after being lonely not knowing where to go they lose their self confidence and they stop shining and we want them to shine, we want them to show their brilliance so before we go because I don't want to keep this too long we could be talking here forever but the conversation to continue tomorrow because I will be in your podcast. Absolutely. And now give us, give the community some of our, something that it was a good learning from you in your life that you would like to share with them that, that would help them to shine.

Always remember that the world needs your brilliance and your brilliance is not my brilliance and as somebody who has suffered severely from imposter syndrome in the past I found ways my little hacks to to deal with that and to deal with it at a deeper level and to deal with it in the moment and one of the things that I found incredibly useful in that moment of having that overwhelming sense of imposter syndrome where I've had to break through and I have to break through now, that's when I call on my community and I look at people who I admire, who are mentors of mine, who believe in me and I think to myself, well, if that person believes in me and they are brilliant, I should believe in me.

So that's just that little like, I just need to get through this because I really, when we all stand in our brilliance the world will be will be a much better place so believe in that and do what you need to do to allow yourself to shine well done thank you so much nikki and for the ones that want to get in contact with nikki i just find her linkedin but also i will post the links of her page and also the why factor. In the end, we didn't talk about the why factor. We didn't.

We have to do it again. We'll have to do this again. Thank you so much, Nikki, for being here with us. Thank you.

Tilia, thank you for having me. It's been a wonderful discussion. As I said, I could talk to you all day. That's all for today.

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