Ep 20: Mike Vaughan - CDO, Brown & Brown

Speaker A: Foreign.

Speaker B: Welcome to First Person, the show where we meet the most interesting people in IT and learn from them what makes them tick by focusing, uh, only on their firsts. I'm your host, Matt Egan, asking you to enjoy, like and um, subscribe wherever you find us. And if you are an interesting person in it, do let us know because you might be the next first person. The next voice you hear will be today's guest. He is Mike Vaughan. Mike serves as Chief Data Officer for Brown and Brown Insurance. He partners with business leaders and technology teammates to provide solutions that address real business challenges and opportunities in a meaningful and scalable way. He also champions the creation of a data driven and innovation focused culture. So I think you can tell Mike is definitely one of the most interesting people in IT and we're delighted to have him as a guest on, um, First Person. So Mike, welcome and first of all, what's the first thing people should know about you?

Speaker A: Well Matt, thanks for having me as a guest and I think the first thing people should know is that I'm immensely blessed. I have a great job and a great place to work here at Brown and Brown and an amazing culture to work in and family is very important to me and I have a great family. So, um, I'm immensely outnumbered. I guess that's the other part of that I have named Penny and my wife of third of 25 years. I have three daughters, ah, Della who's 20 and studying in the UK, Ellie who's 18 and Beverly who's 15 and my mother who just turned 89 also lives with us. And so, um, immensely blessed and outnumbered.

Speaker B: Well, I mean like excellent on both counts. Um, um, it's wonderful that you feel so blessed and we'd love to dig into some of the reasons for, for that as we, as we talk about your life and career. Um, but yeah, that's definitely outnumbered. You know, We've got a 5050 split in my household and it's an important, um, um, delicate balance, you know, mutually assured, uh, destruction. We're probably too strong a term, but it keeps things healthy. Wonderful. Okay, I'm really looking forward to this conversation, Mike. Um, and we'll move on to our first section which we call First Things First. And this is where we like to get to know about our guest and by understanding some of their first times. So I'd really love to understand something about your, your first job in, in IT and how that brings you to this blessed position you're in now.

Speaker A: So, uh, I graduated from Appalachian State University with a degree in Computer science. And I did your typical round of interviews with a lot of technology companies. But my first job was with a textile manufacturing company. Huh. In the southeastern United States. And I was putting my computer science degree to work, though, because I was developing the CAD systems that the designers used to lay out the menswear and womenswear suiting, interfacing with looms and other manufacturing equipments electronically. So it was a great experience, very business focused and not something I would have ever imagined doing.

Speaker B: Um, well, a couple of questions bring immediately to mind, um, when we think of your origin story, you chose to study computer science. So I'd be really interested to understand, um, what took you down that route. What was it about computer science that you thought, yes, this is for me,

Speaker A: I think ultimately Nolan Bushnell and Atari are to blame for that. But arcades, uh, going to local arcades and Atari 2600, once I was finally able to get one, and then the Commodore 64. And as that evolved, I evolved from playing video games to designing my own levels and games. And that really made me think, I really want to do something with computers, preferably graphics or gaming.

Speaker B: So it's amazing the number of people who come on this show and reference Specifically the Commodore 64 or sometimes a Spectrum 48K, if they're from, from this side of the, the pond. Um, and often it seems that, that, you know, it's developed from copying out codes from the back of magazines, you know, writing, coding, and then moving on to, to coding their own things. And I wonder, what is it about that that is so compelling? Was it like, because you could sort of type something and create something? If you think back, what was it that kind of inspired you in that sense?

Speaker A: So for me it was doing something creative or building something new or, um, just exploring something different. Right. That someone else hadn't done. And I think that's a big part of the allure of it.

Speaker B: Yeah. And then you. So then you go, you know, this takes you into getting a computer science degree. I'm interested though, that the other thing I was thinking was like, you've had all these interviews. What was it about the job? Which wouldn't at first blush seem like the most obvious route to go into. Right. But I can see a lot of advantages of going straight into industry in that way. But what was it about that role that attracted you?

Speaker A: There were a couple of things. One, there had been a number of other graduates from our program that had actually gone to work there and had great things to say about the company to the area. So it was in a small town, but not far from where I had grown up. I actually had a couple of aunts and uncles that had worked in that business. Um, not that I knew it well from, from their jobs, but just my father had, even before I was born, worked at that plan. Uh, so it was actually a close connection. Uh, my cousin's football coach growing up was one of the people I interviewed with.

Speaker B: Oh, wow, that's amazing. So that gives you a certain level of confidence, right, that you're going to be with good people, which is a really important, um, part of beginning a career kind of thing. And so when you're in there, you know, are you immediately thinking, yes, I'm in the right spot, this is the right thing for me?

Speaker A: So I think I was definitely in the right spot from a first job learning that experience. The teammates I had around me were just wonderful. Right. And so I learned about the workplace that was fun because we truly made it fun. There were a number of us that would go play basketball after work a couple of days a week, we would go fishing on the lake, do things like that. And so the feeling of community within the workplace was something that I experienced there that you don't always see. And it's one of the things that drew me to where I'm at today at Brown and Brown because it's the same work hard, play hard mentality from that perspective.

Speaker B: Yeah, it's so important. And actually I think, uh, without sort of deviating to make too serious a point, I think it's a real challenge in a remote or hybrid work environment that younger people especially do need that sense of community. Right. In order to be nurtured, uh, and to develop. And then when you throw in this idea that, you know, I think slightly wrong headed idea that um, AI can replace junior staff, um, you know, there's a real kind of issue that could potentially be created there where we're not building these cultures within organizations.

Speaker A: Yeah. I think when you think about the long term impact of that thought, it's if you're replacing junior staff with a combination of AI and senior, how do you develop the next decade senior staff 100%.

Speaker B: And how do you have that kind of positive culture that you so eloquently described there? So, uh, you know, if we think back, this is wonderful and it's kind of, it's kind of resonated with me actually when I think about some of my early career experiences. Right. You're with a great bunch of people, you're doing work that you find satisfying. I presume you're learning, but how do you get from there to this incredible role you've got today in this large organization where you're a senior executive leader?

Speaker A: So about three years into that role, um, probably part of my youth was I've learned what I can learn here. Ah, reorganization, a number of teammates, uh, that were similar age left for other opportunities. And so I actually left and went to a consulting startup in the technology space. And I spent about a year there. And then I actually came back to the textile manufacturing business for another three and a half years to do some fairly large projects. And then from there, uh, through, mostly through connections I've made as I've worked through my career. I moved into aerospace manufacturing, PC manufacturing, consulting. And then really a number of years ago, about 19 years ago, moved into the financial side of things and started working in retirement services and then banking and now in insurance. And so it's been an evolution. The first half was primarily around application development. The second half has been focused on data and how you use data to drive, um, a business.

Speaker B: And are there kind of similarities there? Are the things you can take from the manufacturing side that help on the data side, or is that too glib a thought from my perspective?

Speaker A: So I think there's a lot you can take from that. If you think about manufacturing, you're focused on process, continuous improvement of that process. You're looking at the data. What does the data tell you about what's going on in the process? I think one of the early lessons was really understanding what's actually happening on the plant floor versus what people think is happening on the plant floor. And do you have the data to support that? Because that can explain some of the challenges you're having or why some of your applications don't work the way you think they should.

Speaker B: Yeah. And I think another theme that often comes from these interviews when we're talking to successful people is they're able to take those kind of, often it is engineering or manufacturing precepts and move them into the kind of, I guess, more potentially esoteric world of technology data. Um, but also something that stands out as well is you've had, you've been on the manufacturing side, you've been on m. The financial side, you've also had these spells of consultancy. And you even said you left manufacturing, went to be consultant and then came back to do big projects. And I'm just wondering if that's been a helpful kind of part of your progression is that you've done the operational You've also taken the strategic view and then somehow you're able to combine them together.

Speaker A: I guess I think that's a big part of it because one of the things about the consultancy aspect is you get comfortable talking to different stakeholders at different levels and having to talk to others in a way that explains technology in a non technical way. And I think that's a big part of success from that standpoint. It also makes you take a different perspective on what the business trying to achieve. And understanding your business and the process that exists is key to actually being able to provide a solution to help the business. Because at the end of the day that's what you're trying to do, is to help your customers, help your other teammates in the business. And if you don't understand what's happening or what the process is, then you can't do that.

Speaker B: Yeah, no. 100%. Again, this is something that I think is a theme that we hear often is like, you know, you can be brilliant at technology, but if you don't understand how to apply that to create a solution for the organization, um, you know there is going to be limits to your career. So thank you for sharing that incredible progression. And it all fits together neatly in this way that we do like to impose narrative. But I'm presuming especially given your a deep passion for culture within organizations, you must have had some help along the way. So I wondered if you would tell us something about a first great boss that comes to mind when you think about um, those, those developments in your career.

Speaker A: Yeah, so the first great boss was at that textile manufacturing company. Still a good friend to this day. We've actually worked together at several different companies. I've worked for him, he's worked for me. We actually co owned a startup for a while. Um, but what he really taught me was the importance of being calm and patient. Right. You're always anxious to do something based on what you know. But being calm and patient, understanding the business, really talking to stakeholders and understanding what they're looking for and not getting upset when it's not your idea that's chosen, uh, but fully supporting the idea that's chosen, I think those are important lessons that uh, Hank Burns, who is someone I've been a close friend for a number of years that really helped impart on me early in my career.

Speaker B: Yeah, that's amazing. And actually what you described in many ways is leadership, right? Like not uh, getting upset if it's not your idea, but getting behind and pushing, staying calm. These are all things That I think at every level of leadership, we can all learn from and benefit from, really. So that's wonderful. Thank you, Mike. I really appreciate it. I, um, am going to move on now to our, uh, our section, uh, two, which we call first fails. Because, you know, this has all been too successful and nice, quite frankly. Uh, and we feel, you know, we're not just here from the good stuff. And I suspect you'd agree with this. Actually, I feel we learn more from our mistakes than we do from our successes sometimes. So if I was to ask you for a big mistake in your career, what's the first thing that comes to mind?

Speaker A: The second trip with that textile manufacturing company, I was brought back to be part of a team where we had to replace all of the shop floor control and manufacturing order systems. And there was hardware that was essentially going out of support. So we had a deadline for doing that. And I was leading up one of the teams. And so I was responsible for a yarn manufacturing plant and ensuring that they had the systems they needed for scanning, but also planning that plant. And I understood the algorithms we were using for just In Time manufacturing, the algorithms we were using to determine what dependencies there were at other plants so how they should ship their goods. But I didn't understand yarn manufacturing. And so I brought a system with a way of working to the plant and working with the plant planner. And she was very kind, but she sat me down one day and pointed out what you're trying to do won't work and it won't always work because of the way the different yarns work and how they. If you look at the different work centers in the process, ply yarns create bottlenecks in different work centers than single ply yarns. Your algorithms don't take that into account. You can't plan it that way. And she invested the time, her name was Lynn Williams, invested the time and just helping me understand how the planning process works. And even as we got to the end of that implementation, was very much a partner and very complimentary about the way the system worked. But it was really having somebody point out to me I didn't know what I didn't know. And taking the time to invest in me to help me learn that. And so that was a big thing. But it turned out to be really good and I learned a lot from it.

Speaker B: Well, and yeah, so many things resonate from that. The phrase you don't know what you don't know was what was going through my head while you were saying it. Right. And you, you'd even said earlier about the importance of knowing literally what's happening on the shop floor versus kind of, um, um, a sort of mild high view of it. But it also speaks to one of the things which is, you know, culture is really important. Right. And that was obviously a culture where this colleague felt comfortable and you'd given off enough kind of vibes, I guess, that you were approachable to sit you down and tell you you were wrong and why. But, um, in a way that you were grateful for, um, which does speak to a positive culture within that organization. I, um, wonder if that would count for one of the next questions I like to ask, which is the first time you realized something you thought you knew may have been wrong, um, or if you've got any other examples of that type of thing.

Speaker A: So a similar example related to that same use case. We came in thinking we're switching to just in time manufacturing from a technology perspective. We were told from the president of the business, this is what we're going to do. The assumption was that that was communicated to all the leadership down through the levels, and it wasn't. And so some of the behaviors we saw were, I'm, I'm the manager of this department and my compensation is based and incentivized on me entering a certain amount into that department every day. Well, just in time manufacturing, that shouldn't be your incentive. And so I thought I knew how everyone understood the process to work, but I didn't. And so it's similar but, um, I had the data to show, hey, you're entering £20,000 into this work center and you only need to do 15,000 today. But their compensation was differently. And so that's where I realized it was really wrong that the, it hadn't been appropriately aligned with the rest of the company.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. It's another, another sort of key learning. I think that that transcends technology, uh, and it, that you know, levels of accountability, meaning that when we're signing off on something, we have to do the, you know, we have to use the shoe lever to make sure everybody understands. Because to your point, if I'm that person who's responsible for the volume of production and I'm incented on that, like you can imagine there would have been a lot of ill feeling and confusion like when suddenly the expectation was that you were going to produce less kind of thing. Um, it's such a simple thing. But simple isn't always easy.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: Uh, you need to make sure everyone understands and agrees it's such A critical thing. Yeah. Wonderful. Well, thank you for sharing that, Mike. Um, I'm going to move on now to our third section. A bit of fun. Now, we call this Quick Fire Firsts. This is where we want to get to know you beyond your professional veneer, given what you shared about your blessed life and the levels of being outnumbered you have in your household. I'm excited to get to this point. M We've got a list of random questions. Um, and if you could just pick a number from 1 to 15, we will ask that question.

Speaker A: Okay, I'll go with number eight.

Speaker B: Number eight.

Speaker A: Uh.

Speaker B: Ah. Uh, so, um, I'd like you to imagine, Mike, that you, uh, find a strange lamp, uh, in your crawl space at home, uh, and you rub it and a genie comes out and offers you just one wish. What would be the first thing you would wish for? It's an unfair question.

Speaker A: Uh, let's see. I could go with the infinite number of wishes, but, I mean, it's the

Speaker B: correct thing to wish for, really, if you think about it.

Speaker A: I mean, that's the logical side of me, I guess. Just, um, for my children to be as blessed as I have been to this point and really define their own way and their own happiness, I think would be the thing I would wish for.

Speaker B: Yeah, it's the goal. Right? And if you knew, like, you know, if you knew that it was all going to work out fine, like, you'd never miss a moment's sleep ever again, would you? I think, um, I mean, I will say the positive side of my brain thinks exactly the same thing. I've got two kids. Um. Ah. There is another side of my brain that says my first wish might be just to have a little bit of peace and quiet, but that's because my kids are a bit younger than yours. Um, so, um, Ah, thank you for that, Mike. Let's go for another one. Can you give us another number between one and 15?

Speaker A: Uh, give a five.

Speaker B: Number five. Ah. Okay. Um, this might be interesting. Can you tell us something about the first time you earned any money? Like, the first time you had any kind of paying, uh, job, Because I'm guessing it wasn't in the textile mill after you graduated college.

Speaker A: No, it was actually when I was 14 years old. Uh, at 14, you could work up to 20 hours a week if you went to the health department and got a permit for that. And I had a great desire to have a car and be able to drive it when I turned 16, so my father explained to me I would be paying for that. Car if I was going to have one. And so I started working at a restaurant, uh, that did pizza and subs and worked in the kitchen and also waited on table starting at 14.

Speaker B: Yeah. Amazing. I also similarly worked in a pizza restaurant, uh, in my teen years. And I don't think I've ever worked harder for, to. To earn a wage, like, you know, interacting with actual human beings on their leisure time, um, trying to make sure everything runs well. Like, and I know it's kind of corny to say, but I do think, uh, and thinking about your dad's kind of advice there, it's a really valuable lesson to learn, right? Like having to work to make money for something you want.

Speaker A: It is, very much so. I think it shaped a lot of what was to come in the future from that standpoint.

Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. Brilliant. Well, let's move on to, uh, uh, our, uh, fourth and final section, which we call, uh, first and final thoughts. And I am really interested to ask you, Mike, given the kind of wisdom that you exude, um, what would be the first piece of advice you'd give to someone who's just starting out?

Speaker A: Yeah, I think the first thing I would tell them is just be intentional. And by that I mean intentional about everything. Your career, your learning, being a lifelong learner. You're investing. I mean, people told me, start investing for retirement. When you start your first job, really start investing for retirement. Start thinking about what you want that to look like, how it shapes your decisions. Be intentional with your friendships and relationships. Because I think it's easy not to appreciate just how connected the world is and how that can help you, but how it can help you help others as well. And so investing time in friendships and relationships is huge. And I think over time. I had the opportunity to talk to a group of interns recently, really knowing and being true to yourself and focusing on what the main things are that are your priority and just having fun. Because when I look back at all the different opportunities I've had, what really stands out is the fun of accomplishing something with a team at every. Every place I've worked. That's the thing that stands out to me and the relationships that come out of that.

Speaker B: It's such. Such an important thing. Like, uh, the network. I said this to someone else in another interview recently, like, and I'm sure this is the case for you, Mike. If somebody reaches out to me, I'm never going to say no.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: That's just the nature of humanity is, like, I want to help if I can. And it's important. It's not cynical. Right. It's an important thing to do to build those relationships and nurture those relationships as you go along. And a lot of it comes from just being a good actor in every scenario. And then the flip side of that is, exactly to your point, when I think about the most enjoyable, satisfying parts of my professional life, they've always been like, achieving things alongside other people. I think sometimes there's this kind of concept of it being a race and you've got to climb ahead of folks, but actually it's much more of a dance and it's much more of a team game kind of thing. Um, and these are really important things. But the final thing I would say take from it. The intentionality is so important and it speaks to taking yourself seriously enough to think you're deserving of that. Right. If you want to have the career you want exactly what you're saying, think about what that would look like and then give yourself enough credit and belief that you want that and you're going to make actions towards it. Uh, that can change. Right. Things do change. We all have to flex to a certain extent. But, uh, I do think it's a really valuable and important lesson, um, and sort of taking that thought and growing with it. For our final question, I wonder, what if I asked you for your masterpiece, Right. For the, for the thing that you want to tell people about from your career, what's the first thing that would come to mind?

Speaker A: Well, I think the first thing that comes to mind probably is not the answer you're looking for, which is, I do it for my family. Right. And that's, uh, being able to support my family is the crowning achievement from that perspective. But when I think about all the different things I've been a part of, teams that have accomplished. That manufacturing example where we replaced all the systems was huge because of the team, the relationships and the impact on the business. And then at Truist, I had the opportunity, uh, to head up the analytics piece of integrating BB&T and SunTrust. So one of the largest mergers in banking. And you know that two and a half to three years of going through that integration of those two businesses was a huge accomplishment for the entire team that did that. And just so proud of the team that worked on that.

Speaker B: Yeah, but, but I love, like. And I don't think you should be in any way embarrassed about, like, the first thought that came to your head, which, you know, because we work for our funds. Right. And that is, it's an achievement You've got a child overseas studying. Right. Like, you've been able to support that for your, Your work. I think that's. To your previous point about intentionality, that is something to be absolutely proud of. But then you've also moved on to the kind of the technical and the team achievements. Um, it's no small thing, Right, to be able to look back, um, and feel the satisfaction of those achievements.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: Well, Mike, I want to thank you. Sincerely, my thanks to Mike Vaughan, and thanks for watching or listening to this episode of First Person, the show where we meet the most interesting people in it and learn from them, what makes them tick by focusing only on their first. I have been your host, Matt M. Egan, and I'm asking you to enjoy, like, and subscribe wherever you find us. And if you're an interesting person in it, please do let us know, because you could be sitting where Mike's sitting, uh, right now and be the next first person. But my final thought has to be to say a deep and sincere thank you for a great conversation to Mike Royal. Thank you, Mike.

Speaker A: Thanks, Matt. Really, thank you for having me. And I really enjoyed it.