S2 Ep28: He Sold 2 Companies… Now He’s Looking for the Next Billion-Dollar Founder

Speaker A: Do VCs ever fail? Because I haven't met a poor one yet.

Speaker B: They are failing. Yeah.

Speaker A: Are they?

Speaker B: Uh, yeah. The statistic is um, like it's not that good.

Speaker C: How quickly are you able to eliminate the pure founders, the pure entrepreneurs, from the ones who want to be an entrepreneur but they do not have the DNA to do it?

Speaker B: Yeah. So typically we are investing after second meeting. I mean, second meeting. Yeah, we're so fast.

Speaker A: He's not just built one but, but he's exited two famous companies. He is a prolific VC investor in entrepreneurs. Is your exit always in mind?

Speaker B: Definitely. I think this is the most important thing for entrepreneurs.

Speaker A: What did you do differently?

Speaker B: I think, um, it was all about execution and uh, focus. I need to believe in founders more because that founder pivoted the business model and now it's kind of uh, 50 million kind of valuation, I think.

Speaker A: So excited for this one guys. Please welcome Ali a Boblu.

Speaker B: Thank you. Richard.

Speaker A: You've built and exited two companies. Just tell our viewers and audience what they both were.

Speaker B: Um, the first one was kind uh, of Yelp platform. Uh, it was providing service in Turkey. I was in Istanbul at that time. And the second one was teaching English to people in Latin America, in Middle east and in Asia. It was an online English teaching platform.

Speaker C: Who bought them?

Speaker B: Um, the first one acquired by Zomato, a unicorn in India and the second one acquired by Open English. It's uh, a scale up based in the us.

Speaker C: Why did you not keep them?

Speaker B: I'm always building startups, um, for selling them to be honest.

Speaker A: Can I ask you your rule of thumb? So whenever you start a business, Ali, is your exit always in mind?

Speaker B: Definitely. I think this is the most important thing for entrepreneurs. Um, because I mean entrepreneurs should always set up new companies because they're creative and I don't think that they need to run a lifetime business. So uh, when you set up a company, when you go after an idea, I think you need to um, think about the acquirer from the first, first time.

Speaker C: What age were you when you set up your first company?

Speaker B: I was 20 years old at that. Yeah.

Speaker C: And when did you sell it? What age?

Speaker B: Uh, I was 28 years old. Yeah, definitely.

Speaker C: Who is helping you? Did you have a mentor? How did you understand what to do?

Speaker B: Actually first two years, uh, we were just college students. Uh, but of course we had really strong mentors in the industry. I think uh, it's really important to have those people around you because everyone is adding value in your journey. Um, still today I'm learning a Lot of things every day because we don't have a written book for our game. Startup is always about waking up every morning and you need to say that I don't know anything. Otherwise I think it's hard to be successful.

Speaker C: What is it about you that you are able to see opportunity and make it monetize?

Speaker B: I have kind of a playbook. When I, uh, find an idea, uh, I'm spending months on it. And it includes a lot of different parameters. Um, it includes trends. For example, the first startup that I built was, uh, a web 2.0 trend. And it was 2005, 2006.com boom was there and a lot of young, uh, entrepreneurs were launching businesses in Silicon Valley. And that was a wind.

Speaker C: Uh, were you in America at the time?

Speaker B: I was traveling a lot. I was in Istanbul. But we were always following those guys. And that's a trend, I think. Um, the book called Outliers, it says an important thing about entrepreneurs life. Um, it's really related to your, uh, age and it's really related to trends that you are experiencing in the world. So the second one was a mobile trend. It's another wave. So, uh, and then I saw blockchain trend and, and then now it's a trend. And um, it's important to follow these trends and it's important to project right ideas. You need to follow big players and uh, you need to spend time with industry leaders to get some feedback where the world is going. Right. It's really important.

Speaker A: So just in a nutshell, those two business you started, they're both tech businesses.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: The first one called Mechanist, uh, Mechanist in Istanbul.

Speaker A: What did that do?

Speaker B: It was the leading restaurant discovery platform in Turkey. It's like Yelp of turkey.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And 4.5 million people every month. They were using our application to find where to eat and to book. And a book. Yeah.

Speaker A: And wow. So what was the inspiration was Top Table on then? Was that launched then?

Speaker B: And actually it was Yelp directly.

Speaker A: It was Yelp.

Speaker B: Yelp was launched in the US what did you do?

Speaker A: What did you do differently?

Speaker B: I think, um, it was all about execution and focus. Uh, because I think ideas are important for sure, but it's not that important. I mean, uh, for example, we can sit down with you and have a look at, uh, top 10 startup IEAs in the world and we can set up a company, a clone company. But if we execute better, fast, and uh, strategically, uh, we will win, I'm sure. So that's why I'm strong. I Think execution with right people and, uh, right focus.

Speaker A: You told me in the green room, off air, that you went to university and you studied computer science.

Speaker B: That's right.

Speaker A: Right. So that taught you to code. Were you at a coding level that you could code that whole business, that online platform at that time?

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: That's amazing.

Speaker B: Yeah, I was in the kitchen. So it's important, I think, otherwise you need to find your chef. I mean, someone should cook it.

Speaker C: Am I right in saying you didn't go to university? No. You start your first business at 20?

Speaker B: Yeah, I was at the college that time. Um, I was at the student like I was student at the university.

Speaker C: Okay.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: Uh, and, um, so with it, you're 39 now, correct?

Speaker B: Uh, yes. So 1940.

Speaker C: I mean, you're so young. You've got 19 years under your belt of founding companies.

Speaker B: Thank you.

Speaker C: That is an extraordinary short period of time to have created as many companies you had and exited. You've now gone on to create a venture capital firm and you've got an incubator. What is it that you are applying from the years of building and founding companies? What exactly do you look for right now?

Speaker B: I have a playbook. And that playbook includes how to start from idea stage to, um, scale up. Right. And you need to experience that journey, otherwise you don't have any chance to learn it. So that know how is really important. I think that's why, um, I'm investing cash plus that know how, which is to me important than more important than that cash amount.

Speaker C: Actually, I'm going to ask you something then because I'm a huge believer in. You need to go out, fall in your face, get the raw experience. It's very hard to sort of tell someone without making them go through the ranks, making them experience it, because they're not going to learn the same way their brain will not learn. Are you not holding their hand a little bit too much?

Speaker B: Actually, it's really successful so far. Yeah. Um, Global Scale Ventures is a fund based in Luxembourg and it's an early stage fund.

Speaker A: Um, your fund.

Speaker B: It's my fund. I'm a solo GP there. Um, and Global Scale Ventures investing cash plus that know how, uh, in our London Startup center at Knightsbridge. So it's really important to work together with those people. That's why we built London Startup center there. Um, it's a very fancy place. We're working together with those early stage founders. Um, and they're always learning a lot from each other as well, not only from me. Um, but I think Nowadays development is not important because you can develop a product in a month on AI. On AI, yeah. We are experiencing really tough times in entrepreneurship life Ali.

Speaker A: Just on that note, coders are becoming null existent, right? These amazing brains that could code like

Speaker B: you, AI is helping them to be more productive. And you know what I feel nowadays? I feel that I'm working with 50 people every minute with the help of AI.

Speaker C: How quickly are you able to eliminate the pure founders, the pure entrepreneurs from the ones who are want ah to be an entrepreneur but they do not have the DNA to do it.

Speaker B: Yeah. So uh, typically we are investing after second meeting. I mean second meeting. Yeah, we're so fast. How, Because I think we can feel it.

Speaker A: How do you spot the winners?

Speaker B: It's all about personality, um, and it's all about founders. Especially nowadays because um, you're investing in deep tech, uh, startups mostly we're investing in AI biotech and climate tech. Biotech uh, is um, super important nowadays. It's a domain where academicians and programmers work together to solve big health problems. Health, health problems. Like they're editing enzymes, they're creating proteins and they're working on uh, really hard problems like cancer treatments and other stuff.

Speaker A: And I just realized we've got a potential person for you but that's for us of course.

Speaker B: And Climatech is for like green world, right? This carbon footprint things.

Speaker A: So it's all tech. What is the most that you have you ever invested into a new startup from that?

Speaker B: For example the latest one is Metal Chemy. Yeah, um, Italian founder, living in London, um, graduated from Imperial College. Um, Federico, he's a very smart guy and um, he has a patent as well. He, he's working on a chemical and that chemical is um, killing 600 plus um bacterias. Uh, and that guy produced a packaging material with that chemical. So that packaging material is increasing shelf life of foods and it's revolutionary. And now he's running really serious proof of concept uh studies with some big brands. Um, he has a really great facility in Battersea so and he's also working with us at London Startup Center. So it's an ecosystem game. And you know what, the most important thing and the great thing that I can feel that I'm adding value is introductions because for the last 20 years I have um, a great amount of people in my network and I can introduce those founders with right people not only for investment, also for like uh, for some proof of concept, uh practices for some like sales opportunities and exit opportunities as well. And I think these things are more important than investing your money.

Speaker A: Anything that you take on, you know, it's obviously in the millions of pounds to get this written, get it going, get it working. What sort of money does an advertisement?

Speaker B: I think um, there are some stages. The first stage in startup life is problem solution fit stage. So you're identifying a problem and you need to prove that you are solving that problem. And the only thing that you need is minimum viable product. We call it mvp. So nowadays thanks to AI, uh, having MVP is so quick and you don't need to spend a lot of money on that. Let's say you will need maybe maximum 200k for having your MVP ready. And typically angel investors are investing in that stage because they're believing in you. Uh, and it's all about co founders. And then after you see that you're solving that problem, you're going to the next stage and that stage is product market fit. Now you need to understand that your product has a market fit. Uh, but for that you need to spend some more money because you need to have some people out there and trying to find, testing it and finding some early customers.

Speaker C: Would you agree with me that a lot of founders approaching a family M office or a VC approach it with their vision, their strategy and the upside. Rather than understanding a VC and a family office are going to look heavily at the risk profile. They're going to look to smash it and see how it operates in a larger scale market.

Speaker B: Definitely those family offices typically, um, investing in late stages to be honest, because early stage is a different game. Um, that's why as a serial founder I'm in early stage because um, I was in the kitchen for a long time, right, and now I like cooking with them. And um, if you are not in that game, if you are just an investor, um, you will see it super risky, right? Because there is something there in the kitchen. Those people are cooking something but you don't know what it looks like.

Speaker A: You're incubating the egg, aren't you?

Speaker B: Yeah, you're getting oven ready, definitely. But still family offices are really important and they're investing in series A, series B rounds mostly.

Speaker A: With that knowledge that you have, why didn't you just start your own next big thing?

Speaker B: AI Tech Builders is a venture studio. Uh, I am developing my own ideas there. Every year we are developing 5 MVPS M with some people and uh, because I can't stop myself as well because I have some ideas around there and I'm saying, okay, um, let's say a guy from Imperial or from King's College, from ucl. That guy is a very talented machine learning developer, AI developer. I'm saying let's, let's do this together. Uh, I'm going to be your CEO co founder. You're going to be the CTO of this business. We're going to develop this together. We are also sharing company shares with these people and 40% theirs, 60% is ours. And we are CEO co founders who are investing from the first day. So that's a venture studio incubator kind of thing. So I think the model is super unique. Global Scale Ventures is investing in promising startups. AI Tech Builders is developing ideas from scratch. And London Startup center is an ecosystem, a house for founders. So I think um, it's complementary kind of uh, vehicles.

Speaker A: Let's say you say that London Startup M Center, that's your business that you set up. How do you get in there?

Speaker B: I really enjoy working with people and I really enjoy eating with people. Uh, I want to socialize with people because I hate being alone. So that's why we should come live with me.

Speaker A: I hate it as well. Yeah.

Speaker B: Actually that's why I build London Startup Center. I have a partner there as well. So he's also a very um, like minded guy, an investor and entrepreneur as well. So we set up that facility. I think um, office space is nothing, it's all about people in it.

Speaker C: Ali, were you born in Istanbul, Turkey? Yes. Okay, so what happened in Istanbul, Turkey? The produced. You were your parents entrepreneurs?

Speaker B: Yes, my dad has a um, great story. Uh, he's also an entrepreneur but uh, his influence plus I think country's influence is super important. I think Turkey is a very um, great country to become an entrepreneur because you're born entrepreneur there at every are you? Yeah. I mean every people in Turkey they're always trying to build something.

Speaker A: Yeah. European meets east and the Middle East.

Speaker B: Different cultures, different people.

Speaker C: What did your father do?

Speaker B: My father was uh an inspector at the Ministry of Education first and then he resigned uh, back in like 1980s. And uh, resigning is something serious? Uh, yeah, from that, from that kind of, that's really safe, that kind of a job. Yeah. And he started to develop uh construction and, and also he was in different industries in mining, in different kind of industries. He became an investor actually. And um, that like I remember when I was in primary uh school, um, I was writing English emails to different countries to import and export some goods, uh, from, from Turkey to other countries and from other countries to Turkey. So this gives you some uh, like motivation and Passion.

Speaker A: Constantly I hear people whinging and moaning about VCs. Why don't people like VCs?

Speaker B: Because it's all about expectations and uh, reality. Uh, like founders, expectation is always um, like high let's say because they want vcs to understand their business model. They want VCS to understand um, their dreams and respects.

Speaker C: Why don't they just go and do

Speaker B: it themselves before AI uh, to be honest you need cash for creating those teams and start something. Um, because if you are building a tech company at the end of the day uh, you will need cash. But now I agree with you and I think you don't need serious amount of cash uh to create at least those uh, minimum viable products. But still at some point you need investors uh, on board because competition is crazy nowadays. Uh, you need to burn some cash to be quick and uh, spend some marketing dollars. And also you need to have those VCs uh, who are going to put some strategic value in your business. Not only money.

Speaker A: Do VCs ever fail? Because I haven't met a poor one yet.

Speaker B: They are failing. Yeah.

Speaker A: Are they?

Speaker B: Uh, yeah, the statistic is um, like it's not that good.

Speaker C: Especially in early stage.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: When you are looking at these founders, how are you determining which one is worth backing?

Speaker B: I think global scale ventures model is less risky because the name is telling a lot. I think the fund is investing for startups who are ready to scale globally. So we are investing in European founders and founders in Middle east and Turkey and uh, they have attraction um, in their home country and they're ready to scale globally and I see London as a best place for that. That's why we built that space for them. Because London um, has global talent in it and it has finance in it and uh, it has a great brand reputation in the world. So um, I think founders from different countries should be here and setting up their HQs here uh, to sell different countries. This country is not for B2B sales market to be honest. It's hard but, but this country is great for having your HQ and trying to sell your products to different countries. So that's how we are supporting these entrepreneurs. Uh, when I said less risky, it's because of this. Because yes we are investing in early stages but these startups already um, passed 1 million plus $ARR in their home market.

Speaker A: Okay, fair enough. I would imagine you've got a pot of money right? Yep. There's only so much money you've got to invest. So let's say you've invested in 10 companies and you've used up all your pot of money. What happens when the 11th one comes along and you just think because you can't keep on investing and you think,

Speaker B: oh my God, what?

Speaker A: This one's just come along late. Damn, I wish I hadn't taken that one. And now I've got this one.

Speaker B: It happens because every fund has a deadline. I mean, thanks. Of course, yeah, you need to close it and, and, but it happens with

Speaker A: all of the startups and the investments that you've made. Has one really hit it big yet?

Speaker B: Uh, no, because it's pretty new. Uh, like within last nine months we invested in 12 startups.

Speaker A: What's your percentage of success that you're happy to live with?

Speaker B: So the industry standard is 10%.

Speaker A: Is it?

Speaker B: It is, yeah. And uh, 90% they fail. I uh, think in our model it's hard to project it. But uh, you asked which scenario will make me happy. Um, at least half of them should be successful. I think in my case, by the way, uh, an important point about global scale ventures, we are investing and then we're looking for exit, um, very quick. This is an opportunistic kind of uh, approach. We're not waiting for the final exit scenario.

Speaker A: What's quick?

Speaker B: Quick means secondary market sales, for example, three years, two years, two, three years up to three years. Because let's say we invested in a startup, um, and after two years let's say they're going to raise series A round right. From um, a series A investor firm and they're going to come and typically those investors are acquiring uh, other little investors in the company because we are holding maximum 5%. So we're holding between 2 to 5%. And uh, we're investing in early stage and we are preparing them to raise more.

Speaker C: Yeah, so I was going to say how are you replenishing? So you just keep them replenished through the same. Your investment.

Speaker B: You're in Luxembourg, aren't you based in Luxembourg?

Speaker C: Yes, that's a white labeled fund and that is a very expensive location to have a fund.

Speaker B: Um, actually like the standard in the industry is um, like Luxembourg or Netherlands or Cayman Islands or us for sure.

Speaker C: Cayman Islands, not so popular.

Speaker B: Yeah, typically there's a company called Carta. They're providing service, for example, you can set up your phone through them. They are offering you some jurisdictions and uh, Cayman Islands is one of them. And US is also another option.

Speaker C: But who's your fund administrator?

Speaker B: Uh, it's Cray Trust in Luxembourg. Yeah, it's a Zedra company. Zedra is an accounting, uh, firm, and they acquired Crate Trust there in Luxembourg.

Speaker A: I wouldn't normally say this on there, but you really know your stuff. Ross. I'm getting more and more impressed every question that you ask. I'm just going to ask the basic ones. I'll tell you what flashes through my mind. What are the mistakes that founders make time and time again? That means that it doesn't work for them.

Speaker B: I think that's a perfect question. Um, to me, they're falling in love with their startups. This is the falling in love. Yeah.

Speaker A: I would imagine that's the right way to be.

Speaker C: No.

Speaker B: At some point you should give up. Otherwise it's becoming chaotic relationship.

Speaker A: I see what you're saying, but I will throw this back at you because we've had time and time again entrepreneurs on this show saying, you got to keep at it. You got to keep at it, you got to keep at it. And if you work hard enough and you throw enough at it, it will come good.

Speaker B: Look, I mean, I think it's very similar, um, to your relationship in the life. Ah, you should love your company for sure. But m, if you fall in love and you will start, um, looking differently and you will not see some missing parts and some mistakes that you're doing right. You should always be honest and you should always be in reality. Right.

Speaker C: Can I go back to a comment you made? You said you don't like being alone.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: Have you got a wife yet?

Speaker B: Yeah, I have three kids.

Speaker C: Well, you're not alone, sweetie.

Speaker B: I'm not? Yeah, you're not alone.

Speaker C: Because it's very hard to have a relationship. Yeah. Both Rich and I.

Speaker B: It is.

Speaker C: It is, uh, very hard as a founder, especially one that just can't switch off, which is so many. It's the case for.

Speaker B: So, yeah.

Speaker C: How do you manage that? Or do you even manage it?

Speaker B: Yeah, I'm managing quite well, I think, because, um, I feel that if someone is a builder, which is related to your founder experience, you want to build a family as well. That's all about your builder Persona type, let's say, because building a family, managing it, it's not easy, you can imagine, like, especially kids. So. But I feel that, um, while I'm happy at my startup world, especially early days, like building a company with my people around, uh, I feel that same at the house as well. I'm building something with my wife, like, and I see those kids are growing and it's kind of a startup.

Speaker A: Are you workaholic?

Speaker B: Uh, no. No, not really. So what is your, let's say, efficient maybe.

Speaker C: So what is your daily routine?

Speaker B: Um, actually I'm dropping kids. School, uh, every morning it's 8:30 and thanks them we're waking up at 6:00am uh, it's tough, it's not easy. But then I'm going to the office and spending some time with my colleagues there and going back to home around 4 or 5pm Jim. Uh, every morning I'm swimming.

Speaker A: What time's that?

Speaker B: After dropping kids? Uh, I'm going to the swimming pool and swimming there and then going to

Speaker C: the office, which is the one that gives your mind the greatest relief.

Speaker B: Um, when I'm alone.

Speaker A: Do you know what I was gonna say? The exit. What is it about somebody that sits in front of you that tells you that this guy could go on to make a lot of money?

Speaker B: I think know how and personality. These two things. When I say know how it's important nowadays, uh, if you are investing in deep tech companies, you need to have those talented guys from let's say Oxford or Cambridge or Imperial. If you're investing in a biotech company, you need to have um, a strong academic team behind it. If you're looking for an AI company, you need to have a really strong um, AI, um, technical team behind it. And personality means, um, eq, not only iq. I think the most important part is EQ that I'm looking for. Uh, that's why I'm spending some time before investing. So I'm inviting them in the office, we're spending a couple of weeks and we are hanging out together and try to understand.

Speaker A: We say exactly that, don't we? The EQ is almost these days more important than the iq.

Speaker B: So important I think because IQ is almost there in AI.

Speaker A: Annie, what's an instant red flag?

Speaker B: Um, that's a great question. Exactly. The instant red flag is um, let's say arrogance. That's, that's a very big red flag.

Speaker A: Brilliant.

Speaker C: And that's when they blow and make bad decisions and that's when companies go off the rails. What's next?

Speaker B: Um, the next is already happening actually for me. It's uh, building some successful startups under AI tech builders and investing in some great startups with global scale ventures.

Speaker C: And what kind of AI, what areas

Speaker B: Typically I'm looking after, um, some unique data sets, um, because otherwise entry barrier is super low. If you work on AI orchestration solutions, um, some different AI companies can beat you very quick. But if you work on some unique data sets and train a model on it, um, and solving a Real industry problem. Actually it's really good. I mean it's increasing the entry barrier.

Speaker C: I bet you're having to work incredibly hard because AI is just multiplying.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And you know what, when I'm saying ecosystem, it's really important nowadays because for example, as a computer science, um, alumni, let's say I'm in tech, but nowadays I'm building companies for energy industry, I'm building companies for health industry. For this I need to spend time with doctors, I need to spend time with a guy who is managing energy, uh, business for a while and I need to meet with some people who are in manufacturing businesses. So um, this time is so unique I think and those founders should go out there, see real life problems, pain points and try to solve them. Um, otherwise it's not easy to build a successful company I think.

Speaker C: I mean I always say an entrepreneur is just a problem solver, an um, endlessly consuming problem solver. Have any of your dreams come true as far as was there a certain house you wanted to buy, A ship, a boat, a. Ah, watch what's been motivating you all these years?

Speaker B: I'm not driven by money at all because I think I experienced most of them during my university years and while I was building those startups I always had money. Actually I think one thing was super important for me and that was my, let's say, dream, uh, and it was being a global, uh, founder. And why? Because I always um.

Speaker C: Because you wanted to impress dad?

Speaker B: No, I always felt that uh, while I was in Istanbul at my early ages because uh, you are living in your country and you're always traveling around. You see people in Silicon Valley and you see people in London, different ecosystem. It's impressive.

Speaker C: Uh, so what is it about being a global founder now? What have you learned about that?

Speaker B: Um, it's all about being in a ecosystem which has a global impact. Actually that was my motivation.

Speaker A: Always a wonderful dream to have. I want to go back to AI. Plenty of people I would imagine when they're pitching to you on a tech company, stick that in there. How do you sort out the memph and the boys?

Speaker B: The most tricky part is AI in every business because everyone is adding AI into their businesses. That's why I'm working with uh, really strong academicians and technical people. Uh, yes, I studied computer science but I'm not at that point who can uh, deep dive in that tech and understand what's behind it. So those academicians are having those sessions with those startups and identifying the real tech behind it. Uh, and I'm following them.

Speaker A: Let's say, what's your biggest miss? What's the one that's got away?

Speaker B: There's a company, uh, it was three months ago, came to me.

Speaker A: It's called Microsoft.

Speaker B: No, they got acceptance from Y combinator in the U.S. oh, wow. And I missed it. I mean I was, I wasn't sure about the business model. But you know what? I need to believe in founders more because that founder pivoted the business model and now it's kind of, uh, 50 million kind of valuation.

Speaker A: I think you've given such amazing advice. What's the advice you can give to a new founder or someone that's thinking?

Speaker B: Definitely. I think it's really important and it's really hard, by the way. But I can say that, um, I'm always trying to be in reality. That's the most important, uh, thing nowadays in the world because so many things happening out there and there are a lot of uncertainties as well. Uh, in tech world. Nobody knows what's next. Nobody knows, uh, how we're going to leave after five years or ten years. So, um, it's not really easy to survive. Not, um, only as an entrepreneur, as a human being as well. Um, but I will recommend them to stay in reality, um, and focus on real problems and try to solve those big problems, uh, with some real technologies. Because for the last 20 years, uh, tech, live tech industry was also including a lot of, uh, booms, right? And like we were calling dot com boom and like mobile boom, but now it's not a boom. It's here. It's the reality.

Speaker A: So the last question I want to ask you, and you've told us you've watched quite a few podcasts so you'll know what question is coming. You find yourself on death Ro, bro, what's your last meal?

Speaker B: Actually, I'm a big fan of, uh, sushi.

Speaker C: Sushi?

Speaker B: Yeah. I'll get otoro, I think.

Speaker A: What's that?

Speaker B: Uh, I will get toro sashimis. Oh, oh, I love those choro and otoro.

Speaker A: Oh, yes. I love those little triangular ones.

Speaker C: Wasabi?

Speaker B: No, actually a little bit. Soy sauce maybe.

Speaker C: That's it. You're going to go out?

Speaker B: Definitely. But not a little portion. I will have so much.

Speaker A: Definitely. Ali Abogu. Uh, thank you so much for coming on Entrepreneurs Worldwide.

Speaker B: Oh, uh, thanks, Richard. And thanks, Rose. Where can they for having me?

Speaker A: Yeah, where can they find you?

Speaker B: Uh, uh, we're at Nice, Ah, Bridge, 180 Brompton Road. It's London Startup center. They can search on Google Maps. And always welcome Instagram, anything like that. Uh, LinkedIn.

Speaker A: LinkedIn.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker A: Thank you very much.

Speaker B: Thank you. Thanks, guys.

Speaker C: Thank you very much.

Speaker A: Oh, yes.

Speaker C: End of the show.

Speaker B: What's that?

Speaker A: Okay, sorry. So at the end of the show, we always have one saying, Ross and I. And it's something that we've learned from wonderful guests like yourself. If you truly believe in something, please

Speaker C: give it a thousand days at least.

Speaker B: That's right. I like it.

Speaker A: Can you do us a favor? Can you hit that Follow and subscribe button? You can find us anywhere where you get your podcasts on entrepreneurs worldwide. And there'll be a new episode every Wednesday at 5:00am.