S2 Ep22: How A Greek Entrepreneur Went From Nothing To The World Of Private Jets

As always on Entrepreneurs Worldwide, we have a very special guest. This man came to the UK at the age of just 20 from Greece. I worked at McDonald's for about 3 months, uh, bar work in the evening, any money I could get. He has gone on to build one of the world's and Europe's most important aviation businesses. When I decided to start my own business, um, I knew I couldn't do it myself. We will lose a contract, we lose a client because someone promised the world. Yeah. And, but we know after a year this client is going to be back. A business of private jets. We've got worldwide presence. We have 195 jets we operate around the world. He has transported some of the world's and Europe's most discreet and richest and most important VIPs you can imagine. He's a good life as long as you're prepared to be away from home for certain periods of time. I was fortunate enough to get invites from my clients to their private yachts, to fly with them on the jet, invited to parties, which I thoroughly enjoyed. Sounds a terrible life, George. Please welcome George Galilopoulos to Entrepreneurs Worldwide. Thank you, Rita. Thank you, Ross. Thanks for having me. Hey, I'm loving the Greek accent as well. Private aviation is one of the most discreet and demanding relationship-driven businesses you can imagine. Indeed. What's it like being inside the world of private jets? Well, it's certainly not my world because I come from a very humble upbringing. I grew up in Greece and I came to the UK when I was very young. So it's certainly not my normal world, but it's, um, it's It's interesting, it's fascinating. And for me, the most interesting part is meeting people, meeting some of the world's more important, famous, interesting people. You describe humble beginnings when you grew up. I grew up in Athens, a single mother. My father left when I was 4. It was hard times. She worked really hard and she's always been the rock of my life. She's 83 now. And still live in Greece. So times were hard and I went to school, I didn't do particularly well. And that's the reason I came to England. You're an only child, George. Yes, I was. Yes. So why did you come to London? Did you come seeking fame and fortune or? No, not, not at all. I suffer from ADHD. My two boys have ADHD now. Congratulations. We do as well. George, if we had £50 for every entrepreneur that came on this show that told us they got ADHD or left school, we'd be very Well, 12, everyone has it. But unfortunately, those days it wasn't recognized. Of course, there was no medication for it. Both my boys take medication now and they manage it well. And as you get older, of course, you get to know how to deal with it. But those days, obviously, it wasn't something known. So anyway, I did really terrible at school. So I decided I come to England and study. Computer science was my first target. How on earth did you focus on that with ADHD? Because I, I know myself, it's incredible the periods of time where when it does kick in, you just can't focus. That's a major subject to take on. Well, I didn't. That's the point. That's why I moved from there to aviation. So I came to England, did 2 years of A-levels. I was just about to go to uni. So we must be looking at late '80s, '85. Were the opportunities in Greece In Greece, unfortunately, the education system is quite different. It's very limited places in university. And in Greece, to get a decent job, you have to go to university. It's a very Greek thing, which I totally disagree with. That's like America. That's another story. Yeah. So, um, there were very few opportunities. So I came to England, I did 2 years A-levels, um, I was just about to go to start uni in September. And I used to work at nights as a barman in West End. I lived on my own in a little flat. I think a flat is probably a bit of an overstatement. But I was working in the evenings as a barman and completely, completely by chance, someone walked in one day. It was 1 AM and he was a pilot. He was a commercial pilot. So we started chatting. We got friendly and he said, what are you doing? I said, I'm going to university, do computer science in September. He says, you don't want to do that. You want to be a pilot. I said, I don't want to be a pilot. What do I— he said, it's a great lifestyle. Just follow me and give me a call. Yeah, it was just one of, it was a 5-minute conversation with a guest in my, the rest of my life. Amazing. So you then went on to become a pilot. I did. 5 years. For who? Um, well, I had to go and work through my exams, my flight training, for 5 years. But you must have had to finance that, right? Yeah, my mother, again from Greece, helped me. And then I had to work evenings, weekends, anything from, uh, I think McDonald's. I did, uh, I worked at McDonald's for about 3 months, uh, bar work in the evening, any money I could get. I was in a country that, frankly, when I came here, I did not like. I didn't like the climate. I didn't like the people. I found everyone very cold, very unfriendly. I come from a society that is very close. Yeah, you guys are huggy, embracing. We are. I love Greece. I love it. It's different times, but England has changed, of course, because 40 years later I'm still here and I love it. I think it's the best place in the world. So how did you end up actually able to build your own jet company? Well, I've worked as a flying instructor for a couple of years teaching people to fly on a small Cessna. Aircraft. Then when I got my full commercial license, I got my first job flying for a private individual at Stansted Airport on a small Citation jet. And that was my first job. What year was this? That was early '90s. So that was one person that had one jet, his own jet, and you were the captain? I was the first officer. I wasn't experienced enough to be a captain. What age were you? At the time, I think I was about late 20s. Oh, bless. Yeah. Okay. So then I've started working for a guy that used to own the flying club where I used to be based and I used to do flying instructing. I worked for him for 2 years. I start an air operator certificate, which the license you need to charter aircraft. Worked for him for a couple of years. And then I've decided I need to do this for myself. I was working hard, but I wasn't seeing the rewards. Did you love flying? Was it something that— Brilliant. I was never, I have to say, a lot of people ask me that, I was never a natural pilot. I think I was a good pilot, but I wasn't one of those kids that loved aeroplanes, that played with toy aeroplanes when I was kid. I've never had some connection to aviation, but more I go into it, more I loved it. Yeah. For me, wasn't the aircraft, was the people. The people that we're flying. But also, it sounds like your life was based on necessity at that time. So whatever you could get in, whatever door would open, you were gonna walk through it. Absolutely. Yeah. So where on earth do you start in setting up a private jet company? Certainly wasn't easy. When I decided to start my own business, um, I knew I couldn't do it myself. And I think majority of people these days have the same issue. You don't have all the qualities that you need. So I was very fortunate to find a good business partner. Uh, I actually met him completely by chance. He was learning to fly. I was— I had to do a business plan for an investor that I was hoping to finance the business to start and I didn't know where to start from. How many planes do you think you needed to start? Well, I wanted one to start with, Richard. Yeah, I think one will be enough. Just lift off. But it was a small propeller aircraft. Oh, small, little plane. Yeah, yeah. We started with small propeller aircraft, but I had no money to do that. What airport were you based? That was based in a small airfield just outside London in Essex called Stapleford. I know. And my office are still there actually 30 years later. But anyway, going back, so I had to do a business plan. I had no idea. I think I did one myself, Googled it and managed to get something together. And it was 2 pages and that would never get someone to invest. So— Typical entrepreneur. Yeah, I thought back of the day— No, but I promise you it's gonna be really successful. It will be amazing. Amazing. It would make even rich know who you are. Trust me, it'd be great. So I got, uh, I got Patrick. I met Patrick. Um, he was a city guy, uh, coming from a corporate finance background. I said, hey, can you give me a hand on this? He did. We did a fairly decent business plan. I was proud of it. I presented to the investor and he said, look, looks good, but not for me. How much did you need? At the time we started, I was projecting we needed half a million to start. Is that what it costs to buy a prop plane? No, that was sort of money to buy the first propeller aircraft and then working capital for the business office. We didn't actually went down this route. I was turned down and Patrick said, how much money have you got? And I said, well, not a lot. He said, I reckon we can get it together. Yeah, I said, I can work a few extra hours at the bar. Enough for a 50-seat flight. No bags. Yeah, we trimmed it down to, I think we needed 70,000 each. So that was my next challenge. How do I get 70,000? So I went to the bank, I managed to get some personal loan. By that time I had my own flat, so I bought my own flat. So I got a second mortgage. Anyway, somehow we got the money together. We're going back how many years? 30 years. 33 years at that time. What's private jet hire? Then what it is today. Not at all. So how many times to cover your cost did you need to fly that jet? We projected at the time, I think we need to do it about 400 flying hours per year. Which doesn't sound a lot, but it is a lot on a small aircraft. But then what I did, I managed to get into the horse racing world. Newmarket was just up the road from us, and I managed to— get to know a few people there. So with our small aircraft, I would fly daily from our base to the other side, to Newmarket, and fly jockeys, trainers. Where would you land? You land into the racecourse. We had a grass landing strip. So that was a small, small propeller aircraft, twin-engine propeller, and I used to fly them around. I was the pilot. I used to fuel the aircraft, do my flight plan, fly the aircraft, come back and do the invoicing. Where would you fly them to? Horse racing was different those days. There was a lot of meetings, race meetings around the UK in the same day. I see. So all these guys, they used to be based at Newmarket. They would come in the morning about 10 AM, jump in the aircraft, they would fly to Haydock Park in Manchester, to York. I was very fortunate with Patrick. He was very well spoken, very English. I was the barrel boy from Greece that came in and I'm trying to sell a service to some people that works quite well. But then we used to start going for contracts, government contracts, Ministry of Defense. And I could see the room, I could see that they were not taking me serious. And if I was on my own, I probably have never got those contracts. But I had a good partner. How many trips in a day might you do? Yeah, ballpark. I would do 3 or 4 trips. So we would fly in the morning, fly to a place, fly to somewhere else, and fly back. So it's a long time ago. You can say if you don't want to share it, but I'd just be intrigued. What sort of money would that bring in on that one plane? Probably those days on a small aircraft that used to carry 5 passengers, we'd probably get £2,000, £2,500. A debt for the day? For the day, yes. For the day. So it wasn't a lot. Was there a little bit of profit at the end of that? Yes, it was, yeah. Yeah, okay. Now how do you then go on to start building this incredible company that you have now? Slowly, as we got a bit of track record, the accounts started looking a bit better. We financed the next aircraft, and then we built onto the next one, the next one. But where our business has actually changed is when we managed to get individuals that wanted to buy their own plane. That's— it was a lot bigger aircraft, either a bigger turboprop or a small private jet, to buy it and give it to us to manage it. And that's what we do today. So today— Right, so you diversified. Yeah. So we changed from the ownership model that was high risky. And for us, even those days to go and buy a private jet, it would probably cost us $2 or $3 million. That was the bottom line of the business jet world. And that's high risk for us. Yeah, you don't want that. Not easy to get financed. So we managed to change the business model to where people buy the jet. Through us, and then they give it to us to manage it. They buy it through you? Yeah. So what would you say? You're like an agent or? We were a bit of everything those days. So we will advise them of what jet to buy, and then we take the management of it, which means doing everything absolutely from the ownership structure, the pilots, the maintenance, the operation of it. It's like when we saw George on the world's most luxurious jets. Yes, it was that. That is basically where you've positioned yourself. Yeah, right. So that was on Channel 4, wasn't it? Yeah, yeah. What was the turning point for you? What was the point where you realized you were walking into meetings and people were meeting you head-on? What was it in you that changed? I think you build your confidence up as you get more experience and you learn from your mistakes. So you, you walk away from the meeting and you need to look back and say What did I say wrong? Not what I say right. Sometimes you're one of 3 or 4 companies that are bidding for the same contract for the same aircraft. Somehow you need to differentiate yourself. But sometimes when it gets to that kind of level, it just comes down to whether they like you enough or whether they like you better than the other person. And it's all about the trust. To get where you are, how on earth have you done it? First of all, honesty. You need to be transparent right From the first moment you have to, and we find a lot of the competition that come in, they make big promises. We keep away from all that. I always said, keep it simple. See the client, bid for the contract, answer the questions direct, and make sure you can deliver. A lot of times what will happen, we will lose a contract, we lose a client because someone promised the world. Yeah. And, but we know. After a year, this client is going to be back. So we are, as you say, a very competitive industry. There's a lot of people try to do it. It's sexy business. Everyone likes to deal with private jets. So we see it quite often, people with no experience in the business. Maybe they met a pilot in a pub, and the pilot said, you're a wealthy guy, why don't we start a private jet business? That happens all the time. I've seen it. Many, many times over the last 30 years. And some of them will succeed, some of them would just drop off and disappear off the horizon. So we are fortunate enough, we are big enough now, we've got worldwide presence. We have 195 jets we operate around the world. Yeah, we've got 20 that we manage from the UK and the rest is spread around South Africa, Australia, Middle East, So we are fortunate that we can deliver what we say. We don't need to cut costs. One thing we never, never, never compromise is safety. And that's what we explain to a new client when it comes to us. We will deliver a good service at a reasonable price. So you're looking after essentially those planes for owners, right? Yes. And they're asking you to, when they're not using them or some— I would imagine if you're that rich, you can leave a plane sitting on the tarmac, right? You don't need to. And who wants— actually, it's like renting a house. Who wants some— who wants to Airbnb if you don't need to? Um, but how are you finding and managing and juggling all those pilots? I mean, I've flown with royalty myself. I've seen the kind of caliber of the cabin crew that you have. I mean, They're not easy to find, are they? They have to have special qualities. An airline pilot is completely different to a private jet pilot. They can both fly an aircraft. Why? Pretty well. Well, when you work as an airline pilot, you go on your easyJet, your Ryanair flight. Do you ever speak to the pilot? Except when you hear the public announcement. Yeah, you say hi, and then he says, ladies and gentlemen, we'll be landing in half an hour. So an airline pilot walking, gets flight brief. When he goes on the other end, there's a handling agent there, there's a hotel booked for him. Everything is set and it's the same every single time. Business jet pilots, completely different. You have to, of course, have operations, things are done for you. But when you fly to a remote place in Africa, then that's where you need to be able to think, how do I deal with the situation? Even paying cash for the handler because yes, he's, You book the handler, he comes to the aeroplane, but he's looking at you and said, "Yeah, it's be, be hot today, be busy today." That means you need to give him $100 to do the job. Yeah. And that's where business jet pilot is different. When you go to the cabin crew, they're the ones that interact with the client and they need to be discreet. They need to know where to speak, when not to speak. They need to be serving by being visible. Completely different qualities to an airline. I mean, it's probably the most, perhaps even more than having a yacht, perhaps, because different size of yachts is, but to have a private jet has got to be the ultimate of luxury. It can't be just saving time. What are these people, are they getting a buzz every time they get on it? Because I would if I was being flown privately everywhere. It depends if you're new to the business aviation world or you've always done it. For me, it's more the convenience than the luxury. Because if you look at luxury, you look at Emirates, the first class or the apartment, it's ultra luxurious. Yeah. That's luxurious. So if not even more than a private jet. Of course. It's the convenience. It's be able to get to your private terminal and your jet is sitting 50 yards away from you, or even drive and get clearance. We drive your car straight to the steps of the aircraft. That convenience— not have to go through security formalities, immigration, everything is pretty clear. For me, people use it for various reasons. The majority of our flights are business flights, 70% probably is business, and the rest is holidays with the family. Someone's got families, got young kids, Imagine the convenience not to have to go through a terminal. They're just doing it in the air. Absolutely. Do they get— Very expensive way of going on holiday though, isn't it? Well, it is, but it's all relevant. I mean, of course it's relevant. You know, I fly easyJet, I fly Ryanair, I'm more than happy. But if I have to go somewhere that's really important and need to be on time, you know, a private jet makes sense. There's a barter entry basically. Yeah. All the airports you're— they're flying into for your jets are actually private landing? Not all of them. Okay. Depends where we're going. So if you go to New York, for example, you're not gonna fly into JFK, we're not gonna fly into Newark, you fly into Teterboro. Right. Teterboro is the private jet airport of New York, a lot closer to downtown. Yeah. Non-congested. Again, your car will come pick you up straight from the steps of the aircraft. Yeah, those New York boys will want to get in and out fast, because I suppose their main road is just going from New York to London and back again and back again. Yeah, literally. Who's been the most— I suppose you can't name them, but do if you want to. Who's been the most interesting client that you've dealt with? It's difficult, difficult to say. As you can imagine, we have flown probably every personality and important person in the world. I would say the late Her Majesty the Queen. It's probably the most interesting. Wonderful. You've flown her. But they've got a royal jet, don't they? Uh, well, I know they have because I've been on it. Actually, the royal family have access to the government's. Oh, it's the government one. Yes, yes, yes. We as a company, we have a contract with the Royal Household Travel Office, so we provide private jets to the family for official engagements only. So anything we do for the royal families for official engagement, no private use. So how much of a toll has building Lux Aviation taken on you? I'm quite fortunate I can multitask, so I can manage my private life with my children, my girlfriend, and the business somehow. I do get tired. I'm over 60 now, so it's taken a bit of a toll, but I still enjoy it. I still get the buzz and that buzz gives me the energy to keep going. Thing is, in our business, it doesn't stop. So it could be at 12 midnight and I could still be getting a call from a client because he wants something. Time zones. Yeah, time zones. Absolutely. I would imagine, George, at that level as well, with a lot of those kind of customers, they want to speak to you, don't they? They do. And I think probably one of the reasons we've been successful over the years is that whenever I see a new client, someone that just bought a jet, my phone is always on 24/7. My kids hate it, my girlfriend hates it, but that's who I am. So we've got loads of people around the office. We're 24/7. There's operations, there's customer care, there's maintenance support. But people, if they need to speak to me, I'm always there. You have to be like that. Yeah. And I actually enjoy it. I sleep very little. I'm sure. How many hours a week? How many hours a night do you sleep? I think if I get 6 hours, I've done well. But the nights I do less. Yeah. Can I ask you, George, about the business model? The business model is that a client will buy an aircraft, they will pay us a management fee per month. Right. Okay, depending on the size of aircraft and the amount of work involved. But you're not manufacturing, are you? We're not. No. So we will advise the client throughout the purchasing process. We speak to him, there's meetings that sometimes go on for months to identify the right type of aircraft. It's like buying a car. Well, it's like buying a car. Or a house. Or a house, absolutely. So you need to find the right aircraft that fits the client's requirements. Someone might just want to fly to Europe. There's no point of buying a Global 7500 at $75 million to fly to Nice. Um, and someone might always fly to the US or South America or the Far East. There's no point buying a Citation to do that. So it's horses for courses. You got the Mini, you got the Bentley, you got the Ferraris. Just say we've got a really fabulous Gulfstream. And I want to go to New York, right? How much does it cost in fuel? 3 months ago or today? Oh, that's a very good point. I was going to come on to that. Let's say 3 months ago and then give us today. As a rough number, a large cabin aircraft, we probably burn £1,200 per hour flying. Is that the Mini version or the Ferrari version? That's more the Bentley. Okay, the Bentley. So let's say 7 hours, that would be £8,400. You pay a landing fee to the airport, you pay a handling fee to the handling agent, right? Then you have airway charges. What was the guy in Africa that was like $100? Yeah. So there's various charges, but just to simplify it, if you own your own Gulfstream and you fly to New York and back, probably around £40,000 all-in cost. That's your fuel, your airway charges, your maintenance, reserves, and pilot. Well, pilots are it. So it's an overhead. We class this as— Do you have a lot of pilots salaried? All our pilots are salaried. How many pilots do you have? At the moment, I think we employ 600 pilots worldwide, probably about 70 in the UK. And what's their shift allowance? Well, for every aircraft, depending how busy you expect the aircraft to be, so how much the owner uses it and how much charter we're going to sell, we have either 3 or 4 pilots per aircraft. The ideal situation is 4. So 2 are on duty, 2 are off duty, and they change. So pilot life is, is easy. They fly all over the world to the most amazing destinations. And normally a pilot will have time to go sightseeing, to go and see the place. You know, if we fly to say Vietnam, we're not going to go there and come back in a day. No. So quite likely we'll be there for 2 days before we move to Singapore, before we go to Malaysia. So that to me is an amazing life. You see the world on someone else's expense. Well, have you— is there much mischief behind the scenes? Well, pilots, as the others— okay, probably have the highest divorce rate. What does a top, top pilot a really trusted pilot, right? One of your best pilots, top of his game. What, what does he— what sort of money do they earn? 200,000 a year. I thought you're going to say less. Well, it used to be— again, the business have changed. When we started, you started as a business jet pilot, low paid, and then you progressed to the airlines, and the ultimate goal was British Airways or Virgin. Now have changed the salary that private pilots get. Is probably higher than the Ryanairs and EasyJets. You don't want to fly as much because they do certain sectors. I said you stay down route for a long time. So that's what I say, is a good life as long as you prepare to be away from home for certain periods of time, which is normally is 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off. George, have you managed to hold on to your childhood friends? Yeah, absolutely. Lovely. All my friends today. When I say childhood friends, a lot of them obviously they live back in Greece, so I see them when I go home. But here, most of my friends, they're working-class people. I enjoy going out with them, go down the pub and have a drink. So my life is, is a bit split. Yes, I do. I'm fortunate enough to get invites from my client to the private yachts, to fly with them on the jet, invited to parties, which I thoroughly enjoy. Sounds a terrible life, George. Oh, he would hate it. Thanks for the joke. Richard would be appalled. Could be kicking and screaming. No, he's not. He gets more advice from me, probably. I could— listen, I couldn't even afford the little private prop one that you started with, let alone anything else. But your clients can. Yes, they can. That's a good point. So yeah, but I thoroughly enjoy going out with my friends. We've got football. I'm a West Ham fan, by the way. Oh no, fingers crossed. That's another story. We still got 2 games to go. But, uh, yeah, I still go, go to football with them, going holidays with them. So, and I always try to get my kids grounded because they were a little more privileged than I was when I was their age. But they are grounded, I think. I think they appreciate what they get. And sometimes we do go to a private jet and I said, this is not normal life. This is exceptional. As long as you put that in perspective Do you feel you've been lucky to fall into this business? I see you just fitting that role that you play. Oh, that's very kind of you. First of all, I think you make your own luck in life. But quite often I think if I wasn't working at that bar and this guy, Nick— Nick was his name— walked in and talked me into becoming a pilot, I'd probably be a computer guy today. Probably be AI making a lot, a lot more money. So yes, there was a bit of luck there. I met someone completely by chance and I go into the business. Are you still in the business with him, by the way? No, no, no, no. It was your business now. Yes. Right. Well, um, so, um, yeah, I was, I was kind of lucky to that respect, I think. But the main thing, Richard, is that I love the business. And you can see it. I kind of, every day I go to work after 30-odd years, I enjoy it. I look forward to, and there are days that drain you. That's in every business. I reckon there'd be a lot of people watching this podcast sitting there thinking what I'm thinking. I know every business has its cross to bear. Of course it does. But listening to you, what's not to like? Oh, I think it's an awful lot. Unbelievable pressure. Horrible. It's an awful lot. Have you Airline business is a complex logistics. You, you think now if everything goes well, it's the most wonderful business ever. But when the aeroplane breaks down in the middle of Africa, you need to get it fixed and you need to get it back. I totally get that. What's your daily routine? I don't have one actually. Do you have anything that you've carried on throughout your entire life that keeps you very balanced? I've got a very good partner. Um, and we go, we're very close. Uh, we don't talk business together. Sometimes I go home and I vent because I had a horrible day. She's a psychologist, so she's got a good background. She can work me out sometimes, what mood I am. But I'm the kind of person, if I have problems, I'm quite good in putting them aside in my mind when I get home and concentrate on my partner and my kids. Somehow, I enjoy the everyday challenge, as hard as it is. And— keep going. I keep going every day. I'm optimistic by nature. Do you not have an exit? You don't want to sell this company? You've built it up. I mean, wow, it must be what— it must be very— I've actually, uh, I actually sold the business. Um, the, the London Executive Aviation was my company to Lux Aviation Group, so I remained with the group. So I've actually had the exit a few years ago. Oh, you have? Okay. How much did you sell it for? No comment. Okay, so I'm gonna try what I try. I've, I've worked out a way with our entrepreneurs when they say no comment. Okay, so I'm gonna apply the formula. Uh, what, under 5 million? Under 100 million? And everybody, come on, comment still. Okay, but certainly about 5 million. Okay, I was gonna say most people say Oh no, no, no, no, it's much more than 5 million. What, north of 10? Oh, well, it's a little bit north of 10. We have to ask the question. Well done, Moz, for asking it. I want to hear a funny story on the plane. I can probably write a book. I'm sure you can. Of course, we're gonna have a name. Give us a little gem. The thing is, Mile High Club. Oh no, no, it's like— I should imagine that's normal for a private jet, isn't it? Is it? I don't know, I don't know. Your experience with that. But no, we did have a lady that turned up at Farnborough Airport once. She booked a jet to go to Jersey with her husband. And Jersey, all the Channel Islands get fogged in quite often. So she turned up, the pilot said, I'm sorry, we have a delay. The weather is below minimus at Jersey. Would you like— are you happy to wait for an hour to see if it clears? She goes, no, can we go somewhere else? So would you like to go? I don't care, just take me anywhere. He said, it's actually his 50th birthday and I promise him good time. I said, one question for you, do you have curtains in the cabin? He said, yeah, yeah, the cockpit has got curtains. After we take off, then just close the curtains. So yeah, the flight went well. It didn't get to Jersey. I'm not sure where they've gone, but, um, he did come back with a smile. It was his 50th birthday. No, quite right, quite right. Are you still surviving? Or are you inside literally let go and you are now enjoying life? Are you still in survival mode? So many entrepreneurs. I think, I think I'm still in survival mode and I always going to be. What do you think you would seek to end that? I don't think, I don't think more millions or more money will make any difference. Sorry. I come from a very, very basic background. Remember my mother sort of struggling to put food on the table. And I do sympathize with people. We're in a cost of living crisis now, and I hear so much on social media, and I see it, and I see it every day. And I do sympathize with people that are in that position. I don't want to be back in that place where I was. I'm fortunate enough, I did relatively well in life, and I enjoy myself. But I don't think I can ever relax and give up. I still got a few years left in me, I think. Yeah, you have. I'm sure you have. George, where can people find you? luxaviation.com. All the information is there. Fleet, our different offices we have around the world. You can find me on social media, on Instagram. What's that? Um, George Kalanopoulos. You're on death row because you took out a few competitors and, uh, they didn't like it. And you had to retaliate, so you had to just kill them. Okay. What is your last meal? That's a difficult one. Last meal. I love Greek food. I love— No, no, I'm actually not into the Greek food. I love fish. I love anything. So a dover sole or a big snapper with salad, with a Greek salad. That's my— Greek thing. I do love cheesecakes. So do I. What, what kind? New York. Yeah. Lovely. Uh, the one thing that Ros and I have learned on Entrepreneurs Worldwide talking to all these amazing people is that if you really believe in your business, you must believe in yourself. There you go. George, thank you so much. We have loved your company today. And what a wonderful chat on Entrepreneurs Worldwide. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. It was a real, real pleasure. It was a joy. Can you do us a favor? Can you hit that follow and subscribe button? You can find us anywhere where you get your podcasts on Entrepreneurs Worldwide, and there'll be a new episode every Wednesday at 5 AM.