S2 Ep27: How Gai Waterhouse Built a Global Empire, Broke Every Barrier & Became a Sporting Icon

Speaker A: Ros and I are so honoured to have from the world of horse racing, one of the sport's most infamous entrepreneurs. Talk us through what it would cost to buy an entry level horse that is not really expected to win but is good enough for Ascot.

Speaker B: Well, I don't buy horses that aren't expected to win. I used to get up at 2:30 in the morning and uh, you know, they're long days. You've got to be very dedicated and it's seven days a week. I say to people, I don't work with the white or blue collar worker, I work with the no collar worker. They're my boys and curls. Owners have made lots of money. I mean to think that we bought a horse, Piero, it was Australasian champion two year old and three year old and he sold for 38 million.

Speaker C: What do you think it is, um, about your generation that the generation of

Speaker B: today are lacking plain old common sense.

Speaker A: Please welcome on Entrepreneurs Worldwide, Gay Waterhouse. We are so delighted to have you here.

Speaker B: Thank you. Thank you, Richard. And thank you, Ros. Lovely to be with you guys.

Speaker A: There's so much we can talk about on this show. It's an entrepreneurial show, so we want to really touch on the business side of horse racing and how you have turned training hundreds and hundreds of winners into a hugely successful company.

Speaker B: Well, I think the biggest thing is you've got to train winners. It's like you being a hairdresser and you, uh, have to make sure the hairstyles look the part when the people leave and they've got the happy customer. And the happy customer is a person who's in the winner's circle. You've also got to be able to communicate with people and that's probably one of my greatest skills. You know, even overseas, I'm in London at present, I'm texting people or I'll ring them in Australia and say, oh, that horse won well today, that's good, you know, and just I'm also very big on, um, you know, TikTok and uh, uh, you know, videos and take myself not too seriously. I'm a bit tongue in cheek. I'm not scared to be a bit, sort of, um, a little bit, you know, when I do something a bit funny and also a little bit risque, which I think is important, you know, it's a bit of fun. In this day and age of wokeism, it's nice to be able to do something that people can say, go, sure,

Speaker A: that's fine, a hundred percent.

Speaker C: It's very Unusual for a daughter to take after a father. I did read about Tommy, your father, and I was very taken by his story and his journey. How much would you say are, ah, you like him?

Speaker B: I wish I was as smart as dad. Um, but my father was. It was a household name as tj, Tommy, Thomas, John, and he was known as TJ and he was the most successful trainer we've produced in Australia. He was a Donald Bradman of the turf. And he won 33 consecutive premierships in five Commonwealth records. It's unheard of. It hasn't been done anywhere in the world. So I grew up in the sort of watching this amazing man.

Speaker C: But it's very rare you meet a daughter or son that's taken over such a, uh, massive character to be as massive today as he was then. You've just won the award for Australians most, um, precious treasure and are. Ah. And by.

Speaker B: I am a precious treasure.

Speaker A: Was it precious treasure or national icon? Was it national icon? We've been voted. There were hundreds of votes coming in of who is Australia's, uh, biggest national icon. Is that right? Um, and you got the most votes? Come on, don't be caught. Yes, you did.

Speaker B: Well, I'm a well known name like my father traveled on. Everyone knew him as tj. Everyone knows me as Gay. So, you know, a little bit like Muhammad Ali, you know, one Ali, you know. And, uh, I'm sort of known by my first name. And everyone seems, especially in Victoria where there's horse racing is so strong.

Speaker A: And is that the equivalent of our Newmarket? Yes, yes.

Speaker B: Well, bigger than that because Newmarket's just a town, whereas Victoria's a whole state. But they're very follow all their sports, you know, they're really avid sports followers.

Speaker A: Was that a heavy burden on your shoulders when you did decide to go into the business?

Speaker B: Well, I wanted to be successful and I came to England and worked in the theater and television. Here I was in the Doctor who series and I was.

Speaker A: Who's the Doctor?

Speaker B: Oh, uh, doc.

Speaker A: Tom Baker. Tom Baker.

Speaker B: Brilliant. You'd have fun with this here. But it was fun. It was great fun and it was a great learning curve for me because I wasn't Tommy's daughter, you know, no one knew me over here and you had to stand on your own and it was wonderful. But I knew that I wasn't going to be a, uh, Cate Blanchett or a Nicole Kidman. So I thought, I'm going to exit that, that career and I'm going to go back to what I know, which of course was the stables and the horses and the horse racing business.

Speaker C: The competitive market in your field is ruthless. How did you keep ahead of the competition?

Speaker B: It was very difficult because I didn't have any horses. It wasn't as though they were going to rush to me and give the ungay any horses. My biggest job was, was to get horses in the stables. But I waited. I only had a couple, and I waited till I could say, yes, you can put your money on that horse. And when they started the first five, I started all one. Um, and they went to group.

Speaker C: Wow.

Speaker A: Where did you learn to train horses to that kind of level? I know your father did it, but it's easy.

Speaker B: I'm an only child.

Speaker A: Are you a natural talent?

Speaker B: I think. And I was watching him. You know, when you love someone, a lot of what they do just flows over you. Doesn't. You don't even realize. And so every morning at breakfast, I'd sit opposite, like we are now, and I'd listen to him on the phone talking to all the heads of Australian business. He spoke to them all because they were all the people. The Prime Minister, the new South Wales premier. I mean, he spoke to all of those people. So that's what I heard. And then I'm in the stables all the time watching the way he feeds and the way he trains.

Speaker A: You've turned this into a global brand. You've turned this into a brand and you made some serious money from it. Did he make good money out of what he was doing, or was he just making a trainer's living out of it?

Speaker B: Dad came from nothing, absolutely nothing. And he was very poor. And so there was only one way, and that was up. And he made a huge success of his life and was able to invest in property. And if he'd had the education, he could have been anything, but he was uneducated. But he was able to train himself to be a huge success in his business and his investments. So I'm lucky enough to have been able to go to a good school, go to university. You know, I was lucky enough to have a privileged life. Uh, but I didn't want to fail at the. I didn't want to make him disappointed. So I was driven by something different, which is what I said before, love. You know, when you're driven by that, it's amazing what you'll do. And I wanted to be successful first so he wouldn't be disappointed. But my, uh, you know, the clientele has changed more than, you know, people want immediate information, as you know. They don't want to wait for the letter that might arrive. That's passe. They want the, you know, the Instagram or they want the text or they want the whatever it is to get to them so they can show their friend in the pub or they can talk or they can come back to you, blah, blah, blah. So if you don't answer, um, them, or keep them abreast and say, this is what I'm doing with the horse,

Speaker C: but to be driven by the gift of love makes a lot of sense for a second generation or a third.

Speaker A: I just want to talk about some of your successes on the racetrack and I'm going to read it out for everybody here. So she's won the Melbourne cup, which is probably the biggest flat race in the world, right? One of them, other than the Derby.

Speaker B: Highest prize money.

Speaker A: Highest prize money. Okay, so she wins the Melbourne cup in 2013, Australia's most famous race. She's won eight Golden Slippers, which I'll ask you what that is. Eight Golden Slipper Stakes, multiple Group 1 championships. More than 130 Group 1 wins the Caulfield cup, the Queen Elizabeth Stakes and an Australian cup to boot. And this list goes on and on

Speaker B: and on with the Golden Tippers. Probably the most important race for Australia. And it's a two year old race run at Easter time, you know, March or April, and only 2 year old Colts or fillies can run in it. And it's worth, uh, about $5 million, maybe $6 million.

Speaker A: How much is that in pounds?

Speaker B: Gay? It's about four, uh, $4 million.

Speaker A: £4 million.

Speaker B: It's the highest two year old race prize money in the world. But that's the stallion making race of Australia. That's what shapes our breeding industry. So that's my race of focus.

Speaker A: And you've won eight of those.

Speaker B: I won eight. That's right. I like. It's like diamonds, girls like lots of times.

Speaker A: Uh, can I ask you. That's just wonderful. Can I ask you.

Speaker C: I don't think you're a person, Diamond. Sorry, I don't. That's my observation of you.

Speaker A: My guess is that yes, the prize money is great. Of course, if you're winning that one off, uh, you know, 4 million. Not all of them are anywhere close to that kind of prize money. Is having stables or being a horse owner just usually a, uh, money losing exercise?

Speaker B: No, it doesn't have to be. I try to make sure that.

Speaker A: Talk us through that. Well, how have you managed how, how do you make your owners happy financially to at least, so it washes their face. Right. Financially.

Speaker B: Well, look, they're not coming into racing. Most of them are coming into racing to have fun. And if you have a boat or you have a fast car, you're not expecting to make money. So if you come in and say, look, I'm coming here to have the journey, to have fun, I say to people, it's the greatest way of you meeting people because most of us make our friends when we're at school, our family. Then maybe when you move on, like, you know, you with hairdressing, you've made acquaintances and friends there and same with family, you know, with your children. Exactly, Ros. But when it, uh, comes to, after that, all of a sudden you stop making friends. But if you've got a share in a horse with eight other people or 10 other people, all of a sudden they're your mates and you're talking about that and you go and have a drink, then you might go and have dinner, you know, it's a wonderful way of people networking.

Speaker C: How many years have you been in the industry?

Speaker B: Oh, I was born into it, but working as a trainer, uh, probably 35.

Speaker C: And how many hours a day on average do you think you've worked?

Speaker B: Oh, I'd hate to say.

Speaker C: Shall I ask your husband?

Speaker B: I used to get up at 2:30 in the morning and uh, you know, they're, you've got to be very dedicated and it's seven days a week. But Rob and I, my husband, Rob and I go overseas twice a year and that's our break and we go away for about six weeks and just freshen up.

Speaker A: But you're in London, am I right in saying, uh, because there's a big horse sale, Is that right?

Speaker B: That's right, yes.

Speaker A: Talk our audience through that.

Speaker B: Well, they have a wonderful sale that Goffs, the Irish, uh, bloodstock agency, uh, thought of about 10 years ago called the Kensington palace sale. So it's right at the back of the palace and they have the horses there on Monday and people go and they can very socials, very glamorous. But they also can buy a horse to race at Royal Ascot, which of course starts next Tuesday and it runs five solid days and it's a very.

Speaker A: So are you saying you can buy a horse on Monday that would be entered in? So that is like the fast, the far short way of doing it. Right. I'm assuming you've got to have a few quid for that, that. Talk us through what it would cost for an entry level horse to buy an Entry level horse that is not really expected to win but is good enough for Ascot.

Speaker B: Well, I don't buy horses that aren't expected to win. It's like you sending someone out of the salon with a hairstyle.

Speaker A: I know that's you I'm talking. No, but there are a lot of horses that are going to appear at Ascot that won't come anywhere near winning. But they have to be good enough to get in there. I suppose what I'm asking for, what is entry level for a good racehorse?

Speaker B: Well, uh, first you've got to buy them. And, uh, I buy them mainly as young horses, yearlings, which is 18 months old. And then they can be programmed to go to these two year old races culminating in the Golden Slipper. But, uh, you know, the prize money in Australia is huge. It's not in England, but it is huge.

Speaker A: Why is it so huge in Australia? Because Australia, I mean, I'm just saying, I mean the population is 25, 30 million, right? So it's half of the UK. So where is the money coming from in Australia to make horse racing so huge?

Speaker B: Government support it.

Speaker A: Race, do they.

Speaker B: Turnover also revenue goes in that way. Uh, and it's very. Well, racing is adored in Australia. I mean, they love horse racing and it's a great sport. It's a great sport for everyone.

Speaker C: America, Ireland, I mean here, when you're looking at a horse, what are the top aspects you're looking to see or hear?

Speaker B: All right. I say to people, it's like you're looking at a good looking bloke. When you met Richard, you thought, he's not a bad sort, you know what I mean? Or you're looking at a pretty girl like Ros. So when I see a horse, I can say, well, I like it, it's attractive. Then the next thing is I like to. I like its head. Has it got a nice eye? I, um, want a physique. I want an athlete. I don't want a blib blob that comes out a big heavy bone thing. I want a horse that when he moves, he's sexy. He just carries himself really well.

Speaker C: What about a temperament?

Speaker B: Temperament's essential. It's like a person.

Speaker C: What is it your principles, values and standards that drive gay.

Speaker B: I'm the only person in, uh, Australia that's a trainer that looks at every horse in every SA that we go to. So I physically go around all the farms and look at them on the farm in their natural environment. And then I come to the sale, so I make notes on every Horse. I look at about 1500 horses every year.

Speaker A: Just to stop you there. So you're going to this big horse, uh, trade on Monday at the back of Kensington Palace. So the horses that you've got your eye on, you've already seen.

Speaker B: No, on Monday, Richard, I will go solely on my husband's form because he's a bookmaker and he'll do the form on the tried horses. They're older horses, he'll do the form on them and then I will look at them physically. Might only be on a video. That's all I've got because they're all over England and Ireland. And I'll look at the video and see the way they look and how they move and, you know, like heavy or they move, you know, just over the crown. And if I like the form and that, then we go for it. But when you're buying the younger horse, I'll go to the farm.

Speaker C: How much of this is based on your instincts rather than your eye?

Speaker B: I think it's a lot. My eye. And then you sort of filter it through, you know, your years of doing it and that. And look, you know, I'm not always right, but I've been right enough times and my owners have made lots of money. I mean, to think that we bought a horse, Piero, uh, it was Australasian champion two year old and three year old. He won the Triple Crown, which is a, you know, 32 year old race. Has literally run a week apart. Can you imagine? You run six furlongs, 47 furlongs, a mile, a week apart, three weeks in a row. And he sold for 38 million.

Speaker A: Wow.

Speaker B: Another horse came out.

Speaker A: Do you get a cut of that?

Speaker B: And, uh, I give them. That's for the owners. My job's to make sure they make money. That's what I want them to do. I want them to be successful.

Speaker A: So they will entrust you. Let's just get this right for our audience. So I'm an owner and I've got, got £10 million, whatever it is. Well, I wouldn't pay that much for you.

Speaker C: Oh, yes, oh, yes, you would.

Speaker A: I might pay it for myself. Nice old stallion standing there.

Speaker C: Yes, he would.

Speaker A: I've got, I've got a suitcase full of £10 million. And I say, come to you and I say, gabe, buy me the best, best one you can buy, right? So you come back and you say, I've found the perfect one for you. I found the perfect one for you. How do you monetize that for you? And the Tulloch Lodge well, the stable

Speaker B: would take a small percentage for all the work they've done, which is a very small percentage. If the horse wins races, the clubs or the racing New South Wales or racing Victoria or wherever, take a percentage out for the trainer. Uh, and you know, it's like you're having a salon without having other stylists there or no products. I mean our products, our stylists are our horses. We have to have this on the shelf. If we don't have it on the shelf, how can you go and win races?

Speaker C: What is your daily routine from the moment you swing your feet out of bed and they touch the floor?

Speaker B: Well, I touched base with the stables early in the morning on a phone.

Speaker A: Do you live on the stables? Do you live on the.

Speaker B: And then I'll go over to the stables. I don't go every day now. I go in the afternoon sometimes instead of the mornings. I concentrate mainly on the babies and making sure that they jump from the gates. Because we're a speed nation, you know, all our races are up to about a mile, whereas in England they're a mile plus. So if you don't use that gait speed of the horses getting out of the gates, you're really at a disadvantage.

Speaker A: How do you get a horse to leave a gate fast will get him

Speaker B: to relax, get him to enjoy being in that tiny little environment. Because it's quite narrow. It's about as narrow as this table.

Speaker A: Going back to the money side of

Speaker B: it, I can see you're very occupied with this.

Speaker A: Yes, you have, um. Well, it is entrepreneurs worldwide, people want to know how much money you've made. If they become really big and they win some really amazing races, the ultimate goal where you're going to make money from is stud. Right. And what about the fillies?

Speaker B: We sort of specialize ourselves in getting our fillies to win races, classic races, you know, black type races when they're two. Which means, because everyone, now I don't care if you're in England, America or Australia, everyone looks for two year old form. They want the precocious horse. They may say they want the stayer, but I'm telling you, the horse that makes money for the owner is the precocious horse. So they look for that two year old form and we make sure. Adrian Bott, my co trainer and I make sure that we win, especially with the fillies, these early two year old racers and then they've already got, if they never win another race, they've got that in their resumes. Do you have children Just, I do. Rob and I have a son, Tom, whose birthday's tomorrow.

Speaker C: Happy birthday.

Speaker B: Got his presents. And a daughter, Kate, who's an influencer. So she's in this sort of.

Speaker C: Have either of them followed your footsteps?

Speaker B: Yes. Tom's got a very successful online business where he, you know, he's literally like a stockbroker with, uh, you know, people investing in different betting systems and that because he's followed in his father's footsteps.

Speaker C: Is there anything that is outstanding that you really wouldn't mind winning or achieving?

Speaker B: I wouldn't mind winning the Cox Plate in Australia. I haven't won it. It's a lovely race. It's over 10, 10 and a bit furlongs. But, you know, I just enjoy training. I enjoy, I enjoy being around the horse. I love being around the people, be it from the stable lads. You know, I say to people, I don't work with the white or blue collar worker. I work with the no collar worker. They're my boys and girls. So, you know, it's good that you can raise them to another level and teach them things. And I'm at a stage in my life where I can spend the time teaching people as well as the horses.

Speaker C: What do you think of the Woke Society?

Speaker B: I think it's a load of rubbish, that's what I think. It's holding young people back hugely. It's taking out of our society any history, any understanding of how people and how society works and history works.

Speaker C: What do you think it is, um, about your generation that the generation of

Speaker B: today are lacking plain old common sense. The kid comes home crying, you know, saying, come on, that's enough, come on, let's keep going. Instead of oo, you know, I mean, we've got to toughen up. That's the problem. I'd hate us to have a war where, you know, like the Second World War. Uh, I don't think people would cope

Speaker A: with no one there. Nobody would. Nobody would.

Speaker B: So we really have to toughen up.

Speaker A: Was it 10 years ago you actually sold the majority of your shares or you sold the tullock? Uh, the business.

Speaker B: What is the business?

Speaker A: Right, okay, so why did you sell it?

Speaker B: I sold it because I didn't want to worry about the finances anymore. I didn't want people saying to me about pay rise. Uh, I just want that pressure taken out, away from my life, so I've got grandchildren. I wanted to be able to enjoy my family. I also wanted to be able to go into the stables and just do what I love doing and do well.

Speaker A: Who did you sell it to Kay?

Speaker B: Well, a young man, funny enough, my father had trained for his father, Tony Bott, and Adrian, I've known him all his life. And he did the flying start, this wonderful, uh, Sheikh Mohammed gives to 12 young people every year to come and learn about racing. So he did that. So he's a very special person. And I mean that in that he understands racing and understands life. And he was working with me and he said, would you sell your business? I said, yes. And I said, but I'd only sell it if I could stay on in it. And he said, I'd only buy it if you stay on it.

Speaker A: Lovely. That's amazing. Um, so you don't have any sort of finite amount of time that you have to stay, or you just stay as long as you want to stay. So I'm an owner and I want you to train and look after my horse. How much does that cost me in Australia?

Speaker B: Probably about, um. About £30,000 a year.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: That's not bad, actually. No, I don't think it's bad either.

Speaker C: Is it a very cutthroat industry?

Speaker B: Between. Terribly.

Speaker C: Yeah, I imagine.

Speaker A: So, say I've got a top horse and it goes to stud and it has a foal. What is the going rate for a foal from a horse like that?

Speaker B: Well, the. The stallions cover 200, 300 mares a year, so it's. It's a license to print money.

Speaker A: I knew I was in the wrong business.

Speaker C: Wow.

Speaker B: It's amazing, isn't it, that. So a horse like, um. Exactly. Richard, there's a chance for you.

Speaker C: He'd be a great stand.

Speaker A: Do you know that when.

Speaker C: It'll be about 500 a year. I thought I would.

Speaker A: A shame. This has fallen on deaf ears, that little joke.

Speaker C: It was being absorbed, that process.

Speaker A: And I bet gays never heard that joke before.

Speaker C: You know, one thing I will say, it's very naughty what I'm going to say, but I'm going to say it. So I did grapple around horses, but I wasn't. I had a hot seat. So I'd get on a horse and they. They'd bolt.

Speaker B: Oh, no.

Speaker C: There always used to be a joke. My aunt used to, um, breed racehorses that women that are in. Women that are in the horse industry are brilliant in bed. And I grew up with that being said.

Speaker A: Shame you're a runner.

Speaker C: I'm not gonna ask you. Gay. I'm not. Because it's so disrespectful. And I'm not going to Ask your husband. Okay, but I'm just putting it out. There it is.

Speaker A: Well, you know, it never ceases to amaze me the stuff that comes out of her mouth on this show. I'm sorry. Because we digress. Silly joke. Okay, you said, if he covers 300 horses, what is each foal?

Speaker B: Well, it depends what he stands at. But, uh, like I'm invincible in Australia, as our leading sire, he stands at about, I think, quarter of a million dollars a foal. A service. So to cover the mare, they have to pay. The owner would send the mayor and pay a quarter of a million dollars, uh, to have the mayor served. But he's the gun stallion. You know, you get lesser horses, but you're wanting to go to the best stallion. So if you can afford it, you're a, you know, you're a, a commercial breeder. You're wanting to use the best standard.

Speaker C: Is there anyone in your life that has been a particular mentor or someone that you have always, always wanted to aspire to be?

Speaker B: No, I don't aspire to be anyone. I'm quite happy in my own skin. But, uh, uh, Rob, my husband, would have to be my greatest.

Speaker A: Oh, lovely. And he's sitting just over there out of the car, out of shot of camera. What a lovely man he is. Now you tell. Now he's a bookmaker, right? Did you meet on the.

Speaker B: No, we met on a racing show, and I had to find someone, a bookie, and I rang his father, and his father was coming off to, uh, America the next day, and he said, why don't you invite Rob on? He's good looking. Why don't you ring him up and ask him to come on the show? So that's how we met.

Speaker C: How many years have you been married?

Speaker B: 45.

Speaker C: Wow. How have you lasted?

Speaker B: Because, um, someone's got to take, say, at some stage or another one of you has to say, look, all right, you know, let's bury the hatchet and move on. And if you don't, you can't work. I don't care if it's in your business life or your personal life.

Speaker A: Is it always the same one saying they bury the hatchet, or do you both do? I think you learned over the years,

Speaker B: um, Rob's not great, like typical men. Not great at saying, you know, I made a boo boo here. But we've learned to be able to yin and yang along together. And you can only do it if you love each other and you care

Speaker A: about each other 100%.

Speaker B: And at the end of the day, who wants to be fighting? I mean, I mean it's a pain in the neck, it's unbearable. You come home, you're grumpy with each other. When Rob comes into the house in the nighttime, he's happy to see him.

Speaker A: I'm reading about your sponsorship deals and stuff like that. How's all that come about?

Speaker B: Well, I like to communicate to people and I like to do it in different ways. And social media is a great, great tool and it should be used as such in your business. So I use it all the time. I'm always on social media. Horse winds yesterday in Sydney. Straight away, I'll put a tweet out. Uh, uh, I'll try to make it funny, I'll try to make it entertaining. I'll try to say, come in, enjoy it.

Speaker C: What did you want to be when you were growing up?

Speaker B: An actress.

Speaker C: Did you graduate from university?

Speaker B: Well, my graduation was. I got into nida. National Institute of Music and Dramatic Art in Australia. Our greatest institute. All out leading. And my father wouldn't let me go. He said, no, he said, you're not doing that. He said, it's full of poofs. He said, you're not doing that.

Speaker A: He was embracing woke right back then, then.

Speaker B: And then we moved on and we came. I came to England and I got into Lambda London.

Speaker A: Lambda.

Speaker B: Yeah, I got in there. But the next day that I was told I got accepted to Lambda. I got my first job in the theatre. And so I went and worked as six hander around all around England, up to Billingham and Bournemouth, down to Bournemouth, Bournemouth, Eastbourne, all over England.

Speaker C: Working.

Speaker B: That's what I wanted to do.

Speaker C: And what was your mother like?

Speaker B: When my father first met my mother, he said there's a beautiful piece of crepe de chine. And when my mother was told that by her sister, my mother said, what would that horrible little horsey man know? How would he know any French? But dad realized that mum had attributes that he didn't. She'd been well educated, she was artistic, she was musical. Uh, she was very elegant, beautiful dresser. And he needed someone who could help him in life. And they were a great pair.

Speaker C: So why did she choose him?

Speaker B: I think he was determined. He hung in there for six years. She was engaged to a man in America. This was in the wartime. And uh, dad said, don't bother getting on the ship because he said I'll be there at the other end.

Speaker C: Oh, I love that. If I was to bet on horses, what is, is it we're Meant to be looking for.

Speaker B: You've got to look for horses form and the average punter probably loses because they haven't done the study.

Speaker A: Can you usually pick three or four winners? Can you really? Do you bet yourself?

Speaker B: No, I don't. Haven't bet for years. I used to have a little bit and then I thought, I can't be bothered. I've got enough on my plate looking after the owners, saddling the horses, da da da, da, da. Uh, my bet's going to the sales and buying the champion.

Speaker A: Do you think betting's got out of hand? Do you think the availability to bet on your phone? I could make place to bet right now. Normally you'd have go to the bookmakers or you'd have to go to a meeting. What do you think about all that?

Speaker B: It's accessible and it's dangerous, like drugs. Uh, but you know, you can't stop people doing things, you know, I mean, if they want to do it. And unfortunately a lot of people who can't afford to bet do, you know, you only have to go into a casino and you see some of those poor souls. But, you know, that's life, isn't it? There could be alcohol, it could be drugs, it could be gambling.

Speaker C: For young coming into the industry today, where on earth could they start?

Speaker B: Well, they should go to a trainer or bloodstock agent, but someone who can mentor them and help them and teach them.

Speaker A: One thing we haven't touched on jockey on horse. How much of it is the horse and how much is the jockey? What makes a really good jockey?

Speaker B: I think firstly two things. They've got to have an understanding of speed in the race. They've got to be, uh, able to see the pattern, the way the jockeys are riding and take that gap, you know, not wait till too long and it's closed on them. Um, they've got to be hard working. A lot of the jockeys are a bit lazy, but the ones around me will work hard.

Speaker A: You know, it's a people business too, isn't it? You're having to learn to, uh, work with and get along with and understand hugely wealthy people.

Speaker B: Well, you know, you're dealing with one, you're dealing with your stable staff, the boys and girls in the stable, which is one level. And then the other level, of course are all the multi complex personalities and different temperaments of the owners and what they want. Most of them are looking to have fun. You know, they're not big investors. Uh, they're looking to have fun. Others treat it very much as a business. But the most important thing is to try to make it. They all can be winners.

Speaker A: How is it that you've cut through, uh, with the nation? Because the Australians, they're tough. They're quite tough, aren't they? They're not easy to win over.

Speaker B: Well, you've got to remember I've been around quite a few decades.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: And I've been, you know, uh, they're basically, you know, boying along in the papers, on the social media, in television. So everyone feels they know me. They all feel, oh, hi, Gay. You know, they have a chat with me.

Speaker A: Do you like that?

Speaker B: Yes, I do. I do. It drives me mad sometimes when I'm trying to get my work done, but. But I like it that they feel that comfortable. I think that's important. So, yes, yeah, I'm in a privileged position and I enjoy that. But I also am very mindful to look after those people.

Speaker A: I can see why they think like that about you. Um, you're very warm. You're very candid. M. Yeah. You've got it all going on, if you don't mind me saying so. You really do. You're very endearing.

Speaker C: They will have grown up.

Speaker B: Yes. They've grown up with me and they've seen from my father passing the baton M to day, you know, and so they feel they know me very probably far better than they do know me.

Speaker A: Yes. Your father's looking down on you. Do you think he'd think that you've taken it onto another level?

Speaker B: I, uh, won a hundred group one races faster than any of the other trainers in Australia, and that was including my father, Bart Cummings and Colin Hayes. So I got to that level of getting to group ones very quickly. Um, I think he'd be very proud. I think he's proud that, uh, Rob and I have had a very successful marriage and that we're. We're very happy and we're. Well, got 100 kids and five grandchildren. I think that's what.

Speaker A: It surprised me that, um, that you were saying that Robert is still a bookmaker. Is that right? So he must love that, right?

Speaker B: He does. He does. We both love it.

Speaker A: So did you say that he's actually at. On. On a bookmaker at Royal Ascot?

Speaker B: You can go to Robbie Waterhouse and you can have.

Speaker A: There you go, everybody. Robbie Waterhouse. They got it. You've heard it here first on Entrepreneurs Worldwide. And, um, he'll give you the best of odds out of everyone else there.

Speaker C: No pressure.

Speaker A: I'm taking a little cut on that.

Speaker C: Yeah. I will too. Actually.

Speaker A: You find yourself on death row. What is your last meal, Gabe?

Speaker B: Gosh, well, I hope I'm never on death row. Um, my last meal. I quite like a, uh. Well, the Dover soul, I must say.

Speaker A: Oh, so do I.

Speaker B: Yes. I love Davis song. We don't have it in Australia.

Speaker A: Do you not?

Speaker B: No. So I won't be in death row in Australia.

Speaker A: Oh, wow. You don't have Dover soul there. Why not?

Speaker B: Different fish.

Speaker A: Well, they don't catch it there. What'd you get?

Speaker B: We don't have it there. We like. They don't like to go south, they like to stay north, just as we have. We have certain fish in Australia that you don't have here, so we enjoy it when we come here. I love the Davis hole.

Speaker C: Anyway, Gay, it's been an absolute pleasure and thank you so much for coming on entrepreneurs.

Speaker A: You have been, um, uh, just, ah, so inspirational, so warm, so candid. We have absolutely loved having you. Um, thank you so much. And there's one thing we say before we go. We learn on entrepreneurs worldwide. Seeing so many and talking to so many entrepreneurs that if you really are into business and you start a business and you believe in it, you have

Speaker C: to give it, um, a thousand days. But you need a mindset like gaze.

Speaker A: Can you do us a favor? Can you hit that follow and subscribe button? You can find us anywhere where you get your podcasts on entrepreneurs worldwide. And there'll be a new episode every Wednesday at 5:00am.