Quantum Computers and AI with Avanthi Shah and host Catherine Gray Ep. 492

Catherine Gray: Oh. Catherine Gray: Welcome to this week's edition of Invest in Her, your favorite podcast of the week, and… well, at least I hope it is. And, I'm Catherine Gray, your host. I am the founder of She Angel Investors, and co-founder of the She Angels Foundation.

Also, executive producer of the movie Show Her the Money, which hopefully you have seen. It is now on Amazon and Apple TV, so… Catherine Gray: Be sure to check it out. Catherine Gray: It's all about the underfunding of women and how we're gonna fix that, and I'm so happy to have my next guest on today. Her name is Avanti Shah, and she is a general partner at Deep Tech Fund called NextVersed Ventures, and also a leader of NextVersed AI.

We're all talking about AI, right? Right, Avanti? Avanthi Shah: That is right. That is the talk of the town these days.

Catherine Gray: to the show. Avanthi Shah: Thank you, guys. Catherine Gray: Yeah, so I know our dear friend Lata connected us. She always knows the most amazing women, and so happy to have you on today.

I know you are, like, bridging your career in Silicon Valley startups to, you know, what you're doing now with this fund, and I see you have a really interesting background, because you have Catherine Gray: advised everything from NASA to financial organizations. Catherine Gray: So, it's no wonder I wanted to mention that you won CNBC's Woman Entrepreneur of the Year. Hello, what an honor that must have been. Avanthi Shah: Thank you.

Thank you, Catherine. Avanthi Shah: So, very happy to be in your show here, and yes, Lata's a very good friend, and I met you for the first time in Sacramento when you were screening the film. Avanthi Shah: Yes, what an amazing movie, absolutely, and I'm so glad now it's available via streaming. Catherine Gray: Thank you.

Yes, we want more people to understand what venture capital is, I'm sure you do too, and about the women in this space, like yourself, with NextVerse Ventures. We want more women investing in venture capital, right, girl? Avanthi Shah: That would be so awesome, yes, and I think it is starting to happen, but yes, we would like that to happen in much greater scale. Catherine Gray: Yes, we've got to accelerate it, and with this large transfer of wealth happening, the biggest in history, women will have the financial power to be able to invest in venture capital more than they've ever been able to before.

But I always like to mention, too, you don't have to be wealthy to invest in venture capital, right? There are people that take $25,000, $50,000, $100,000 from a Catherine Gray: IRA and put it into this alternative wealth asset, to help really grow their wealth, but also to make an impact, right? Avanthi Shah: That is correct, and that is a useful way for them to Avanthi Shah: to learn how the startup ecosystem works. So, in their retirement age, if they want to sponsor startups, or maybe mentor based on their, their career and their professional history, that would be a logical step for them to take on, also.

Catherine Gray: Yeah, absolutely. And I know you mentor a lot of these women, and I'm like, hey, if she's good enough for NASA, she's good enough for you. Catherine Gray: But we were just chatting before we came on that you had also done microfinance back in the day, reaching and helping over 30,000 women in India. Was that the catalyst to what you're doing today?

Avanthi Shah: Well, I have been an entrepreneur a few times, some of them successfully, and some of them not so. Catherine Gray: And anybody who's an entrepreneur has that same story, or they're not telling the truth, right? Catherine Gray: There's. Avanthi Shah: Yes.

Catherine Gray: That's how you get there. Avanthi Shah: Yes, and what I would like to say is that I share the scar tissue of my failures with the fellow founders, which is why I think I would be… I'm in a position to kind of have a bond with the deals that I'm sourcing, and why the founders might be interested in choosing NextWorse over any other firm in terms of Avanthi Shah: their seed capital, because they want to be with somebody who understands the journey that they are going through, and is able to be empathetic and help them in that journey.

Not an armchair VC. I mean, I wouldn't say armchair, because all VCs work very hard, so I do not want to discredit anybody here, but there's difference in VCs who come up with an investing background, and in VCs who come from an entrepreneurial background. Avanthi Shah: At least that is what my experience and my intuition tells me. Catherine Gray: Yeah, so let's talk about, the Deep Tech Venture Fund that you are a general partner on, NextVerse Ventures.

What kind of, businesses are you looking for? And for our lay people that are listening, let's explain to them what Deep Tech means. Avanthi Shah: Okay, so deep tech basically is the frontier tech at any time. For example, when the internet came about in the late 90s, you could say that wide area connectivity and internet connections, that was deep tech at that time.

Avanthi Shah: And going forward, when social media came, what we call as the Web 2 revolution, the Web 2 was the deep tech at that time. Avanthi Shah: With crypto and what have you, and… Avanthi Shah: Now, when we're sitting at the verge of AI and quantum computing intersecting with each other, this is the deep tech. AI has already made its debut in a big way with GenAI coming up in 2021. So everybody's talking about AI, and more and more startups are happening in that space, and they should be happening in that space.

Avanthi Shah: But what not so many people are talking about yet, and which is soon to be happening in the very near future, is quantum computing, because the promise of quantum computing is just out of the world in terms of the computing power, and the power it has to stimulate nature and solve some of the problems that have been plaguing us for decades, ever since. Catherine Gray: What exactly does quantum computing mean? Avanthi Shah: Oh, thank you for asking that question, because I was wondering how to bring it about and explain it in a way that most people would understand.

Avanthi Shah: The basic difference is this, or the basic way how quantum computers are more powerful than regular computers is this. Our regular computers are made of simple bits. Avanthi Shah: zeros and ones. And that is how the computer operations happen, whether it is simple math calculation, or it's an AI LLM model.

Avanthi Shah: The entire complexity of operations are handled by the computer, transferred to the computer's operating system in terms of zeros and ones. Avanthi Shah: Now, a qubit, which is the basic bit of a quantum computing machine, has not just zeros and ones, but possibilities of various zeros and ones. Avanthi Shah: That means it… a value anywhere… it could be 0 and 1, or it could be both, or could be nothing. So it's just a wave of probability.

So that… Avanthi Shah: Because it shows so many quantum states, the number of permutations and combinations is to the power of n. Avanthi Shah: So, to explain it in another way, it has, to… to depict, Avanthi Shah: Or simulate a coffee molecule in a regular classical computing. Avanthi Shah: We do not have enough bits. Avanthi Shah: to do that simulation.

We would need more bits than there are atoms in the universe. Avanthi Shah: This was a study done by IBM, and that is how they explained how difficult it is to simulate reality with our existing classical computers. Whereas a quantum computer, probably a 100-qubit quantum computer, or maybe a 300-qubit quantum computer, can do it. Avanthi Shah: Wow.

Because quantum computers act like nature acts. Catherine Gray: Wow, that sounds fascinating. It'll make everything more robust and real. If you're, like, doing a sales presentation or something like that, it'll leap off the page instead of just being flat.

Avanthi Shah: Oh, yeah, I love that metaphor. So, the classical computers and quantum computers will coexist, because each one has their own Avanthi Shah: uses, and also areas of expertise. The qubits work that well because they have something known as the superpowers of a quantum Avanthi Shah: element. Avanthi Shah: Those superpowers are things like superposition, which is what I mentioned is a qubit.

It's a wave of probability of where zeros or 1 could exist at any point in time, based on when the observer observes it. The other one is entanglement, which means that once two qubits get entangled, no matter how far away they are distributed in the universe, if one changes, the other changes accordingly. Avanthi Shah: So this is the power of entanglement. So for connected systems, for connectivity systems, etc, it is very natural for them to work in a connected way, whereas for classical computers, we have to kind of program that into their structure.

So these superpowers are existing because Avanthi Shah: quantum state… all quantum state elements have them. All subatomic elements and atoms and molecules, they behave that way. Nature behaves that way. Avanthi Shah: And, and the kind of stigma… Catherine Gray: And I'm so glad you understand this.

So, no wonder you're advising people like NASA. Is this something NASA would use? Avanthi Shah: So, when I did work for NASA, that was on a different way. It was before AI was called AI.

We had implemented a system of search for them through a company called Nextbrick Solutions. So, it was that, project. Yeah, go ahead. Catherine Gray: So this is what I want to know.

You're the general partner of NextVerse Ventures. What is NextVerse Ventures looking for? Like, are there some specific explanations of what you're looking for? Avanthi Shah: That is a very good question.

Avanthi Shah: So, NextVerse, just to explain a bit about what NextVerse is, it's basically a spin on the word universe, so we are investing in the next version of the universe, because we feel that we are at an intersection point like none other in this century. Avanthi Shah: It's almost like when railroads happened in the 19th century and the internet happened in the late 20th century. We are at that level of… Avanthi Shah: New technologies coming to the fore. Avanthi Shah: So, what I'm looking for.

Avanthi Shah: like any VC is looking for two things. One thing is for investors, and the other thing is for deals. Thankfully, because of my other venture partners and me being so connected and networked in the eco-startup ecosystem, deal sourcing, we are in a position to attract the top 1% of deals that are happening in the United States ecosystem. Avanthi Shah: As of now.

Catherine Gray: So, when you say that, like, give me an example of someone that you all have invested in. What are they doing? Why do you think it's so cutting edge? Avanthi Shah: We are just about start… starting to invest… I'm working towards the first close of the fund, but we are talking to companies that are extremely exciting, and they are in our deal pipeline.

One such company is basically doing… Avanthi Shah: 4D level of mapping the coordinates, like how the current GPS system maps the coordinates in 2D, they are having a system which maps it in a 4D level. So the applications are like this. For example, if you wish to take Avanthi Shah: a movie from all four directions, like maybe in a sports arena or something. You want to see exactly how the action is happening, with not just length, depth, length, width, and depth, but also the time element being involved, so you can move backwards and forwards.

Avanthi Shah: they are building the hardware and the software necessary for that. So this is… this would be a breakthrough technology once their system is in place and. Catherine Gray: I've heard that movies are going to be shot that way in the future, or, you know, when you experience them, they're going to be in this whole new dimension. Does that tie into quantum computing?

Avanthi Shah: Not necessarily. Okay. So this is, this is AI doing the work. Avanthi Shah: Gotcha.

And yes, and this, yeah, so not exactly quantum computing, but quantum computing would come in when you're doing, for instance, new materials discovery. So either for, new Avanthi Shah: Users, or for, like, say, drugs, for instance, coming up with new drugs, and one wants to see how those drugs are going to interact with the human body, with different types. Avanthi Shah: of, humans, like, based on maybe their genetic composition, or sex, or race, or whatever it is like that.

Quantum computing will… Avanthi Shah: reduce the time required to do that testing from maybe 10 years to probably under 6 months. Oh, my God! Catherine Gray: Gosh, that's revolutionary! Wow!

Avanthi Shah: It is, it is, because it can do so many permutations and combinations that quickly, because then, like I said, it understands nature and behaves like nature, so it does not have to try to pretend to be nature like how the classical computers Avanthi Shah: work. That's something. Catherine Gray: No, so a new drug comes out, used to take 10 years to get it approved, now it could be tested through quantum computing and be approved. Avanthi Shah: 6 months.

Six months. Catherine Gray: Oh my gosh. Avanthi Shah: And then probably they would do… they would do human trials probably for a year or two, so the approval process would be reduced from 15-year cycle to probably 5-year cycle. Catherine Gray: Wow.

Avanthi Shah: And new materials for, like, say, carbon capture, you know, to improve our climate, those could be invented. To give you an example, University of California, Irvine, UCI, used quantum computers to come up with a new quantum state of a matter. I think it was called, once again… Avanthi Shah: Spin, triplet Exotonic insulator. Avanthi Shah: So what this new, state of material does is, helps the computers from not degrading due to radiation when they are out in the solar… in the space.

Avanthi Shah: Because when you're out in space, the radiation comes right on, and there is no protection of the ozone layer that we have here on Earth, so the computing equipment degrades pretty quickly, so this material they have invented, which resists Avanthi Shah: that radiation. So potentially, we could have computers in the space that can work well for a long time. Catherine Gray: Wow, that's amazing. And so, what kind of AI products are you looking for?

Avanthi Shah: We have developed a very, very strict, kind of, Avanthi Shah: methodology to support our investment theses. We are looking for AI products that have a definite moat, that are defensible, in the sense that we're looking for products that are not just wraparounds Avanthi Shah: to the LLMs or something like that, because those are not so defensible, and some other vendor or founder could come and easily compete with them. So we worked out a clear investment thesis, actually.

One thing is this defensibility. The second thing is in the TRL level, the technology readiness level, where do they lie? Avanthi Shah: to just give you a brief, TRL levels are the standard brought out by NASA, actually, to explain where a product is in terms of its evolution and reaching the market in terms of product-market fit. Avanthi Shah: So TRL levels of, say, 6 to 9 are closer to being tested in the market by the consumer, and TRL levels below that are basically in the research stage, so there is a scientific risk involved in that.

Avanthi Shah: So next was invest in those companies that are beyond the scientific risk, and are coming to the execution risk. That means the idea has been tested, the technology has been tested, now what has to happen is do a proper product-market fit, and do the GTM. That is the growth strategy to increase the sales. So that is the point that we would enter the… Avanthi Shah: And we think about exit right at the time of investing.

Catherine Gray: Yes, of course. And what is, the most fascinating AI Catherine Gray: innovation that you've seen so far, if you had to just pick one? Avanthi Shah: Oh my god, that is such a difficult one. Maybe, maybe if you had asked… asked me, sent me the questions, I could have prepared better.

Catherine Gray: How do you feel, like, how do you feel about the different AI tools that people are using? Like, you know, how does Claude compare to, you know, the other AI products? Something like that. Avanthi Shah: Okay.

So, yeah, some people might not like what I say, but I used to use ChatGPD quite a bit, but then Gemini overtook them, I moved on to Gemini. Avanthi Shah: I still use Gemini, and Publicity is my go-to for just simple questions that I want to ask, because it shifts very quickly between models. But I would say the… one of the clearest winners is Clark, so… Avanthi Shah: it's a tie between Claude and Gemini for me, for my particular use, but once I start getting into using the code, which I plan to use, I think Claude is going to win over.

But you never know about Google. They might come up and overtake you, never. Catherine Gray: It might. Well, you heard it here from… you heard it here from CNBC's Woman Entrepreneur of the Year.

Catherine Gray: You heard it here first. Catherine Gray: Well, is there anything else that you'd like to share about NextVerse AI or your, fund, NextVerse Ventures? Avanthi Shah: Yes, there's a new initiative that we have undertaken, which is, we're exploring the possibility of setting up an incubator for quantum computing and AI startups, and the location, Avanthi Shah: is here in India. That's why my trip here is in India.

We already have the property available, 20,000 square feet, and one of the major quantum computing companies Avanthi Shah: Has already given a verbal yes to partner with us. Avanthi Shah: the I's have to be dotted and T's have to be crossed, so that's why I'm not talking about it as yet. Avanthi Shah: And also, one of the major educational institutions might be becoming our research partner. So with the industry partner and the research partner, I think we would be off to a very good start.

Catherine Gray: Amazing! Well, you know what, Avanti? You're doing incredible work in the world, and especially in the hottest market that there is right now, obviously, AI. So everybody needs to follow, NextVerse AI.

Look into, if you're wanting to invest in venture capital, you're going to want to be checking out NextVerse Ventures, see if it aligns Catherine Gray: With your, Catherine Gray: what you're wanting to invest in. I always say everybody should have a thesis of what it is they want to get behind, and then invest in that, and invest in women, women innovators. We need that, right, Avanti? Avanthi Shah: Yes, yes, absolutely, Catherine, you said it so well.

Catherine Gray: So how do they find, NextVerse Ventures? What's your website? What's your social? Avanthi Shah: Yes, I had given all that to Roxanne, but let me just give it to you.

My LinkedIn is very simple. It's my name, LinkedIn slash in by my full name, Avanti Shah, and my website, I had given it to… should I… just one second. Avanthi Shah: How do I show it to you, Catherine? Catherine Gray: Oh, you can just say it.

Avanthi Shah: Oh, okay. So, so my LinkedIn profile is www.linkedin.end.

Catherine Gray: Yeah, yeah, they'll find you on LinkedIn. I'm gonna spell your name for them. So, you can find Avante Shah on LinkedIn. It's A-V-A-N-T-H-I, if you're just listening in, and the last name is Shaw, S-H-A-H.

Catherine Gray: So you can find her on LinkedIn, and then the website will be, in our post. Catherine Gray: And in our explanation. If you want to tell them the website, that's fine too. Avanthi Shah: No, that's fine.

The LinkedIn is a good way to reach me, and my email is another good way, which is avanti at nextverse.vc. That's A-V-A-N-T-H-I at nextverse.vc.

Catherine Gray: Fantastic. And NextVerse Ventures has a website? Avanthi Shah: Yes, that's right. I've sent it to Roxanne in the… Bio.

Catherine Gray: Okay, perfect. All right, well, everybody can Google Next Verse Ventures as well, and of course, come visit our movie website, showherTheMoneyMovie.com, and check it out on Amazon and Apple TV. You're not going to want to miss our award-winning movie that is all about women and venture capital.

And also, SheAngelInvestors.com. Catherine Gray: If you want to build your wealth, and you want to build your business, you know, check us out with all the free resources that are on our site. Again, SheAngelInvestors.

com. You can find Avante or myself on LinkedIn, Catherine Gray, Catherine with a C, Gray with an A, and we hope you will connect with us. Catherine Gray: Thank you, everybody, for tuning in. Avanti, thank you for being a brilliant guest, appreciate it.

Catherine Gray: Make it a great week, everyone. Avanthi Shah: Thank you. Avanthi Shah: Thank you very much, Catherine.