272: From Selling Phones Out of a Van to Leading a 9-Figure Empire | Brett Beveridge of T-ROC

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Speaker C: If you do the right thing, if you act with honesty and integrity, if you communicate, if you surround yourself with people that are like minded, that share your vision and share your cultural value, important, then you have a much better chance to succeed than otherwise. You know, even my kids say, what do you do again? Finally came to the conclusion that wherever there was a lot of traffic, there was opportunity for us. So where can we find a lot of heavy traffic every single day of the week? And, well, the answer was definitely. My net worth on, um, paper, you know, went from below 100,000 to well over 25 million during that time. And I was 32. So it was a extraordinary feeling. Did feel unstoppable and you felt like hard work does pay off. My name is Brett Beveridge. I'm the CEO and founder of, uh, T Roc. I'm 54 years old and I live in Coral Gables, Florida.

Speaker D: And what's T Roc?

Speaker C: T Roc stands for the revenue optimization companies. But T Roc sounds a lot cooler. So that's the name that we go by. T Rock is an ecosystem that combines the power of people solutions and technology solutions to dramatically increase the sales and reduce your cost of your retail or sales strategy. Uh, we do that through very powerful tools that have been developed over the past 10 years. And a lot of experience in managing large field teams that do everything from training to merchandising to mystery shopping, to building really high performance sales teams that are excellent at selling complicated products and services. Services and products that require consultation and more of a prescriptive solution than just regular products you'd find off the shelf.

Speaker D: So who wouldn't want to hire you?

Speaker C: That's right.

Speaker D: That's your sales pitch.

Speaker C: Pretty much. You know, I could say it another way. I can say we're really good at selling complicated stuff, but doesn't sound as sophisticated.

Speaker D: There you go. Uh, so yeah, can you walk us through like even easier if you just go into a company, fix it like on a dime or give us a better idea or just make it as simple as you can for anyone who's listening on how you go in and actually make money for yourself.

Speaker C: Sure. So I'll give you a couple of examples. We work with a very large national retailer that is struggling when it comes to selling wireless products and services and things like voice, video and data services and other kind of smart home technology products and services in their stores. So about 10 years ago they engaged us and through those solutions that I mentioned, uh, people solutions, technology solutions and a lot of experience, we were able to grow their sales 10x. So we are actually responsible for greeting customers inside of their stores. We are taking customers through the entire customer journey of what it is that they need and what is it they're looking for. We then are able to physically activate the customer onto whatever plans and products that they need and then physically ring the register of that retailer's environment. So it's a complete kind of from start to finish engagement with a customer that makes sure that they are right fitted with the products and services that are perfect for their needs.

Speaker D: Uh, again, I'm just trying to break it down more, I guess. I understand. So again, let's just talk about the phone company. So a phone company called you and you're able to help them dramatically increase their revenue and their bottom line. It sound like, I mean, how much do they hire you for? And like give us some more examples of what you do when that phone company might hire you.

Speaker C: Sure. So when a company calls us, they are looking for expertise and selling particular products and services. It's something that they struggle with. Most companies are really good at selling or having their retail environment serve as a place to kind of pick products off the shelves. But when it comes to technology and it comes to more complicated products and services, they struggle. So they call us to make sure. That their salespeople are trained, that their salespeople are knowledgeable. Their salespeople understand how to greet a customer, how to take them through the buying process and how to basically close the sale and provide aftercare. We do that every day through a combination of our learning management systems, through our sales automation technologies, and through our recruiting methods and training methods to really maximize that customer sales.

Speaker D: The phone company, for example, when you're going in, helping them, um, if I was going into a pet store and there's products that I can physically pull off, that's different. But you're saying you're able to help this phone company because it's harder for me to understand as a customer the data plans. And you're helping them figure out their sales so they can sell me on it. Am um, I understanding that? Right.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker C: You walk into a big box retailer and you're looking for toothpaste and toilet paper. Right. And along the way you want, you walked by the electronics department and you said, you know what, I've always liked that XYZ phone or I've heard a lot about that phone being advertised. I want to learn more about it. So you come into that electronics department and we take over from there. So you're going to see my W2 employee in that particular situation. We're going to greet you, we're going to talk to you, we're going to establish a relationship with you, we're going to ask you a lot of questions about where do you live, where do you work, how do you use your phone, who's your carrier, do you have any contracts that we need to worry about. And from there we're going to optimize your phone and optimize your carrier and rate plan to best suit your needs.

Speaker D: So you're the company that's actually in there. You're not being hired out from walking through the big box retailer and see you, that's your company with the employees there trying to sell me on the product.

Speaker C: Let's take a step back. So we are a services company that provides many different types of solutions that are designed to maximize your sales and reduce your cost. How do we do that? We do that through training your retail associates better on how to sell complicated products and services. We do that by installing our high performance sales teams in that environment and basically take over that environment with our W2 employees in your retail scenario. And we do that through the use of patented software and other tools that provide guidance and help to walk a customer through what is best for them. Does that make sense?

Speaker D: That makes more sense. Uh, again, I always just try to break this down as simple as we can. Is there another example of like the phone thing is starting to understand a little bit more, but I'm like, hey, if you had to go teach a fifth grade class and even break it down more again, as simple as possible. Is there another example other than like the phone thing that we talked about?

Speaker C: Yeah, uh, I mean, well, I mean we do that for all types of different products and services. Another example of what we do is we own and operate our own retail stores. So we have about 85t mobile stores where we serve as a dealer. So you walk into the store, you think you're walking into a T Mobile corporate door. You're really walking into my company owned store through my relationship with T Mobile and we are fulfilling all of your wireless phone needs through our store.

Speaker D: Okay. Because I've actually talked to a guy who owned 300 plus wireless stores in the Midwest. So I understand that even though he might have Verizon there. Right. Or T Mobile or whoever it might be, he's the actual owner of the business and then they're selling him on, um, being part of that dealership, if you will. Right?

Speaker C: Yeah. Like just think of a car dealership. You go into an Audi car dealership, it's not owned by Audi, it's owned by a guy who represents Audi.

Speaker D: Right. So do you just do that with phones? Personally?

Speaker C: We own about 85T mobile stores. We own about a growing number, 15 or 20, what's called Xfinity stores, if you've heard of Comcast branded stores. So that's more kind of voice, video and data and content. We own about three Samsung stores and the list keeps growing and growing. So what we do is we're able to either help you make your retail concept better, smarter, faster and more productive, or we can also say yes to becoming an actual dealer of your brand and basically owning and operating those stores as a dealer.

Speaker D: Okay. Even if we're just talking about you being the dealer, I think that, uh, we're all on the same understanding of that. The other thing was if you're like coming in, I think that kind of overcomplicates as far as like me trying to figure out how you get paid for that. Say someone else owned 80 different Verizon stores in Miami. They could come to you and say, hey Brett, I want to pay you to help me make my company a little bit. And you'd go in and do that?

Speaker C: Yeah, we would go in and assess the situation with them. And then we could either provide full turnkey operations and basically run that chain of retail stores for that carrier or for that dealer. Or you could pick and choose from the various services that we provide. You might want training. You might want us to help develop better training for you. You might want us to mystery shop your stores to see what is really happening when you're not there. You might want us to help recruit people for your stores because you're having a hard time finding the right people and you want to utilize our platform to do that. So it's a broad set of services that again are designed to help you maximize the productivity of your retail store.

Speaker D: Is T Rock the main company and then you have kind of these umbrella companies, if you will, the ones that own the mobile stores, and then the advisory company, if you will.

Speaker C: So T Rock sits on top of about six different divisions. Think of T Rock as the mothership. It's the umbrella that provides shared services down to those divisions. They provide finance support to those divisions and marketing support and HR support and IT support. And each division has its own kind of leadership and general manager that's driving the execution of that particular division's performance and the day to day operations of it.

Speaker D: And you've been at this with T rock for about 16 years or so.

Speaker C: I have a long career in this space, but, uh, this business was kind of a consulting firm until 2007. January 2007 is when we had our kind of first real T Roc project that would be considered representative of what we do today.

Speaker D: I, uh, like bringing that up because I think if you started day one, you wouldn't have all these divisions. But I think like over time, right? I mean, I'm not sure if it even makes sense. But what happens is you go into different parts of this industry, I guess, if you will. So it makes sense why you can have a consulting one and then why you might own Verizon customer stores over here. So it's not just like day one, you did all this and that's how it formed, right?

Speaker C: Exactly. We started with a, uh, $25,000 check from the Home Depot to launch their smart home category in several states. They needed our expertise and help to do that. And over time, as we began to really grow relationships and our reputation and started to finally earn some credibility, our customers started asking us, well, what else can you do? Can you do mystery shopping? And as an entrepreneur, you say, yes, I can do mystery shopping. And then you figure out how to go do it, or they'll say, dude, can you help us with our learning management system so that we can train better? Absolutely, we can help you with that. And then through a lot of effort and bringing in the right people and investing heavily in technology, you're able to deliver great results.

Speaker D: Maybe if we just kind of jump back to where you got started, kind of like you were saying, or even further back, maybe we can figure it out. I think it'll put a more complete picture, even if it's kind of. I get the way I was thinking about you. If you're just coming in, you're optimizing either for other companies or you have your own companies that you've kind of optimized. And so I guess for you too personally, it's good to have these different types of revenue streams versus just all being in one.

Speaker C: Yeah, definitely. It's great diversification between services and also between technology. And I can walk through this later, but we also just launched our international division late last year, so now we're operating in Latin America and Canada. It's all about growing the business and diversification. But I think hearing a little bit more about the original story, that kind of chronological view will put a lot of pieces together and you'll understand more why we are here today.

Speaker D: Okay, cool, let's go ahead and do that, if you don't mind.

Speaker C: Sure. So I was working in the health club industry back when I was in college. A college classmate of mine needed a job so I hired him at this health club and we began selling memberships. And shortly thereafter we were both high producing salespeople. He left to go work with the local cell phone company called Cellular One at the time. And I was his first phone purchase. And when we got together to have that phone delivered to me, we just really sat there for hours talking about how cool cell phones are. And this is back in 1989, early 1990s. So it was really at the beginning stages, uh, very low penetration. Phones were viewed as very cool, very kind of hard to get. So we set out to bootstrap a company and we bought a van and we customized this van and was drive around the parking lots of shopping centers and banks and malls wherever there was traffic and open our van door and set up a little display outside and customers would walk by and we would just engage with them. And when someone was interested, we would collect their check, we would go to the bank, cash their check, go pick up their phone and deliver it back to them that same day. The reason we did it that way is because we didn't have enough money for an office. So our van was our mobile showroom and our company was called Selco Cellular. And our slogan was we're mobile because you are. So through that bootstrap beginning.

Speaker D: That's pretty clever by the way. Did you come up with that or your buddy?

Speaker C: We did and we actually had a numbering system on this van. So every couple of weeks we would change the number on the back of the van. So it looked like we had a fleet of these vans running around South Florida selling wireless phones to people.

Speaker D: Yeah, van number 112. Even though you still just number one, you just added on one or two.

Speaker C: That's right.

Speaker D: Okay. No, that's pretty clever. Like I said, you're already starting off pretty well as far as thinking outside the box right from the get go. And um, were you 22, 23 at this point?

Speaker C: I was 23. And think of Omni Channel today. It's so funny, right? People now are learning Instacart on how to deliver groceries or Amazon prime on same day delivery. It was really kind of like that, but just back in the late 80s, early 90s. And we grew that company very aggressively and ended up taking that company public in 1997 with Merrill lynch and Smith Barney. At the time of our, the height of our company before it was sold, we were doing about $300 million in revenue. We had about close to 300 locations across the United States and Puerto Rico. We had a wholesale division and uh, if you remember pagers, we had almost 100,000 paging customers that we supported across the country. So it was a really wild ride. It was a fun ride. At a very early age, at 32 years old, to be sitting as a publicly traded company was a lot of fun, a lot of energy and scary at the same time.

Speaker D: Yeah, uh, I mean your personal life must have been off the chain in Miami with much money, right?

Speaker C: Well, I didn't spend it, which was smart because things change quickly. I actually left that company in 1999 to go start the dot com version of what we built with bricks and mortar. So I didn't bootstrap that company. I flew out to Silicon valley and raised $22 million in about four days. This is before the bubble burst obviously. And we had great a Silicon Valley investors in that company. People like Goldman Sachs and Redpoint and Excel Venture Partners and HIG Capital and, and I would fly every Monday morning at 5:30 in the morning to San Francisco and where we had our offices and work all week long and take the Red Eye back Friday night and get home Saturday morning to build that company. It was a very intense period. It's right when many people were opening garage businesses and becoming billionaires overnight. And it was very, very fun and a great learning experience to do that. But while I was away doing that, the bricks and mortar company got into trouble and the board asked me to come back and turn it around. So I did do that. Came back and the banks were all happy to hear that I was back. But they said, but we're not giving you any money, so you're going to have to figure this out on your own. So we had to really hunker down our business. We had to make a lot of different changes and eventually take it through a reorganization, which we did and turned it around very quickly to record EBITDA profits and finally sold it to Nextel communications in like 2000, 2001.

Speaker D: M okay. M well, do you mind if I stop you here?

Speaker C: Sure.

Speaker D: I'm here with our past guest, John Austison, and he helps people just like you find the right franchise opportunity. And building a business by yourself, as we discussed in episode 270 with John, I mean, it's really difficult to do it with a blank slate. And when you can have a template or something to kind of help make you more successful, I think that's what franchising gives you that opportunity to do.

Speaker E: We've seen a lot. It's our humble belief that they're easier paths to business ownership than many consider out there. And non food franchising is our favorite avenue. And by that I mean all the industries outside of foods, everything from home and property services to health and wellness to categories like kids, pets, seniors. You know, you always hear the term riches in the niches. And that's what we see day in, day out in all different types of business models at different price points, uh, that are allowing people with a variety of backgrounds to step into business ownership where they're in business for themselves but not by themselves. They've got a team on the sideline that's supporting them.

Speaker D: And so could you dive a little bit more in details about how this approach of, uh, buying a franchise or buying into a franchise is different from starting your own business.

Speaker E: And I mean, certainly when you look at the success rates if you start there, you know, franchises are so much higher than a traditional startup. And um, you know, some of the benefits of the franchises, you've got a franchisor on the sidelines. It's like a business coach. The better you do, the better that they do as well. So they're aligned interest. Uh, you've got a community of other franchisees live in the same thing day in, day out. You're exchanging best practices. Again, you've got community. You're not in business all by yourself. Certainly you got streamlined supply chain or maybe there's brand recognition. You're able to step in and have a technology stack. Day one, you've got optimized marketing because it's already been proven out in other markets. So there's just so many benefits. Especially when you go to sell the business down the line too, you oftentimes get a higher exit value. Based on research out there that has looked at like kind Industries, a franchise and non franchises. You know, one path, Austin, that we see a lot of people, um, looking to take is that of eta entrepreneurship through acquisition. You know, there have been books and publications out there on this topic and you know, that could be a great path. You know, an existing business in a market that may have brand awareness and they've got a team in place and maybe they're already profitable. However, over and over again, every single day, I have clients reach out and say, hey, we've been looking at existing businesses for the past two years, three years, four years, in some cases we've been under loi. We've come so close, but then we get outbid or something comes up during the due diligence process or we just haven't found that needle in the haystack. And while there are some good opportunities out there, they're really hard to find. And oftentimes people are better off starting a franchise where instead of an existing business, you've got an existing business model, but you're able to put your thumbprints on it in a new market. You know, one thing that people oftentimes overlook is with an existing business, there's an inherent risk to it. Typically you're paying a premium for that opportunity and you're assuming that everything's going to stay as is you know, on day two, day three, day four. But we all know that whenever you have a change in ownership, oftentimes you lose some, some of the key employees. The culture starts to change. People are worried about their jobs, you may lose key customers. So, uh, all of a sudden you're in there and what you paid for doesn't look the same a few weeks after you bought it as what you anticipated. So that's one of the reasons we love the franchise model. And most of those clients end up purchasing a franchise instead of oftentimes it just wasn't on their radar. But they say, hey, here's a proven model from other markets. And I can get into things like home and property services or health and wellness or kids or pets or seniors, all these different niches and really have their choice. And they've got historical financial information. Again, they've got a team on the sidelines supporting them from day one. Proven business model. But you're putting your thumbprints on it there in your market from day one. So again, when people start to think about it in those terms, the vast majority end up going with the franchise versus the existing business.

Speaker D: A lot of people just think about starting their business from the ground up. But another level is, hey, why don't I buy a business? But if you're just buying a business and not into a franchise, like, it could be a bit like a family business. And it's just that, uh, one family business. So you're relying on all the details that they have there versus, I guess if they go with you and kind of get a franchise, they do have a network of other people that they can rely on that could help them and kind of mitigate that risk. It sounds like, too.

Speaker E: That's exactly right. And we have some acquisitions, you know, that our clients will do within the franchise world. You know, um, you know, eventually people are going to sell their franchises, right? And so that can create opportunities. But the vast majority, once they really dig in and learn more, they like the idea of starting fresh, you know, with putting their team in place, putting their thumbprints on the culture. But, uh, with all the support of the franchise system, so, you know, there can be some great acquisition opportunities out there. But what I found is it takes a lot of time to find the right one. And, uh, you really have to have the stars align where you can get going much faster with a franchise.

Speaker D: And if someone wanted to use your services and find out a little bit more about you, John, what's the best way for them to reach you to start a call?

Speaker E: Yeah, the way we work at Frambridge Consulting, we're essentially a real estate broker, but for franchises. And so our clients never pay us a nickel. It's entirely free. We get a referral fee from the brands on the back end, and none of that's passed on to our clients. So want to make sure that's clear. It's entirely free to work with us. But I would encourage people to come out to our website, franbridge consulting.com, that's f r a n bridge consulting dot com. Share your email address. We'll reach out to you and share a free downloadable copy of our book, either PDF or audio format. Uh, but our book, Non Food Franchising, I think can be a great primer to help people get the juices flowing and better understand how franchising works and why so many are jumping into it these days. And simply reply to that email if you'd like to take a next step and book a call. You know, I've been able to help so many of your listeners in the past, Austin, and would love to help even more. Uh, we've never seen so much interest in franchising, so just indicate that you'd like to jump on a call and I'd be more than happy to help.

Speaker D: Again, it seems like you came back. I guess they called you because they knew you could help them turn things around. I'm just curious. Again, even if we're talking, I was kind of half joking, but being serious, like your first 10 years, basically you're in business. You started from a van, right. And grew it to that. And you're in Miami this whole time.

Speaker C: I was okay.

Speaker D: Yeah, because you went to University of Miami. Just walk us through, like, how you're feeling. Even at this point, I feel like I'm almost unstoppable.

Speaker C: Yeah, it does give you that sense because it was seven years after we started that we had grown this business, had a lot of success, had a lot of notoriety. Our brand that was called let's Talk Cellular and Wireless had immense recognition. Not, uh, only in South Florida, but in most major NFL cities, you know, Atlanta and New York, and fill in the blank. Chicago, Denver, really across the country, San Francisco, Louisiana. So when we did go public, it was big high, definitely. My net worth on, um, paper, you know, went from below 100,000 to well over 25 million during that time. So, yeah, and I was 32, so it was an extraordinary feeling. Did feel unstoppable and you felt like hard work does pay off and surrounding yourself with great people pays off.

Speaker D: Talking about that hard work again, just kind of maybe focusing on these first 10 years before you even sold it or as you sold it. What was the work life again? You and your buddy started from the van. So just tell us how you're able to expand it over that time and get it to be able to become an actual public company.

Speaker C: Well, we really used credit card debt and did our shopping at gas stations because that's the only credit card we had any room left on and didn't pay ourselves. And Just really focused on providing an amazing customer experience, being very focused on providing and services that others that were in the marketplace couldn't duplicate. And we also made sure that we reinvested every dollar that we made back into the business. So we started with that van. We then opened a kind, uh, of a retail store, but kept that van out in the streets. And we just finally came to the conclusion that wherever there was a lot of traffic, there was opportunity for us. So where can we find a lot of heavy traffic every single day of the week? And, well, the answer was the mall. So we called the mall leasing manager and sent him all kinds of beautiful pictures and information and forecasts, and he never returned our call. So we finally picked up the phone one day and called his office and said that it was Nick Molina and Brett Beveridge returning his call. So his assistant put him through. He picked up the phone, and we told him, you know, hey, we're sorry. We know you didn't call us, but we're the guys that have been, you know, hounding you to get into your mall. And he laughed, and he embraced us. He loved our youth and our energy. And he gave us our first shot at, uh, what was actually the number one mall in the country at the time. And from there, we opened another store in South Florida, and then another store in South Florida. And then we moved to Orlando and tried our concept there, and it worked. And then we went right to New York City and opened in the middle of Manhattan. And once that worked, we knew we had a tiger by the tail. So we started to venture into funding of our business. So we're able to land some angel funding, $250,000 for about 10% of our business. And a few years later, we got a really good bank facility that allowed us to grow. And after that, we landed venture capital. Two and a half million dollars of venture capital. And from there, that led us to a point where we could begin not only opening more and more stores across the country organically, but also through acquisition. And that brought us to 97, where we're able to take the company public

Speaker D: even over this time. I mean, the technology aspect, did you not have to deal with any of that? Were you just on top of a platform like your brand? Let's talk. Because, again, I guess that's the other thing I'm trying to figure out is how you're able to figure all this out and just come from a van to a public company in less than 10 years.

Speaker C: Well, we were a brand of brands, so our Advantage was if you were looking for a wireless phone you could either and we'll use it in today's context you could either Drive to an AT&T store and you could drive to a Verizon store or you could drive to a Sprint store or T Mobile store or Boost store. You know all those different locations or you could come to our location and our location carried all of those different brands under one roof. So that was our differentiator and that was gave us the ability to satisfy a whole lot of customers. But we weren't involved in the network infrastructure or billing platforms at that time anyway. We were a professional retail and sales organization that differentiated itself by being a one stop shop for all of your wireless. Every dealership has a sales event. We wanted ours to help you right now drive a new Mazda with financing as low as 0%. We'll also help you maximize your trade. Take advantage of every available manufacturer incentive you qualify for and accept. Explore financing options that fit your budget. McCurley M Mazda giving back is part of how we do business. That's why every vehicle sold through September 11th helps grant local Make A Wish wishes McCurley Mazda your way home valid on 2026 Mazda CX 70 PHEV or Mazda CX 90 PHEV CD thank you

Speaker D: for establishing that because that makes it a lot clearer to me why you could have been the successful because people weren't going on Google as much or understanding how you can compare certain price shopping and then people are getting more and more phones. Right. So you're in that space that's blowing up and you're the guy who has all of them. So I can actually compare versus if I'm going to att of course they're going to sell me only on the AT and T plan. I don't know what I have it to compare it to. It seems like yeah it made a lot of sense as far as if you're able to bring these all in house and compare them one by one.

Speaker C: And we were truly interested in making sure that customer had the right carrier and the right phone for their needs. Right. We were motivated for them to have what was right for them, not what the only thing that we had to sell, right.

Speaker D: Which those mobile carriers at the time. I think the plans are a lot better now, like friendlier than what they used to be. I don't know, maybe you would obviously know a little bit better than me about that. But were you like one of the first few companies to do this? Because it makes so much sense to Me now how you're able to expand?

Speaker C: Well, definitely rate plans were very complicated coverage areas. So if you. Part of me talking to you was where do you live and where do you work and where do you play? And based on that I'd say, you know what, you really should look at this carrier or two because they have the best coverage in the most places that you're going to be using your device most of the time. And it was extraordinarily high demand for phones and services as well, so. And a lot of different phones to choose from in today's world. There's only a few phones really that people gravitate towards almost 80% of the time. And that's Samsung and apple and maybe LGs coming up from behind and a couple of other brands back then, if you remember the brick phones and bag phones and flip phones and There was probably 40 different models that we had to carry in order to be able to be that one stop shop.

Speaker D: Well, that's cool. Like I said, thank you for making it simpler for me to understand that and probably, hopefully the listeners.

Speaker C: I, uh, will add that you're intuitive about who else was doing this. We pioneered opening stores in malls. We were the first one to open a store in a mall and the first one to grow rapidly. And definitely once we got some traction and got noticed, others started opening cell phone stores and accessory stores and malls. And to a point where it was like crazy, there was 12 or 14 competitors in each mall at some point in our growth.

Speaker D: It was called let's talk cellular this whole time.

Speaker C: Yeah, let's talk cellular and wireless.

Speaker D: All right. So yeah, I don't know if where you want to jump back into the story or maybe even before you took it public. It seems like everything went pretty well over those seven or eight years before you did take it public. Right.

Speaker C: Well, it almost perished in the first four months. That's actually a good story. So we at the time, as you know, we were both very young. We didn't have financial resources at all. We were just all ambition and drive and blood and guts. You, uh, know, at time, so we couldn't have a direct relationship with the phone carrier. We had to have a place to activate our phones and receive commissions through what's called a master agent. That master agent was direct with the phone carrier and we were what's called a sub agent and we were activating a whole bunch of phones every month. But we had big commission checks that we were desperate for that we wouldn't get till the end of the following month. So as a cash strapped company, we had payroll to make, we had rent to pay, we had lights to keep on, insurance to pay, etc. It was a very cash hungry business. And so we were desperately wait for that commission check to come in. Well, everything was working swimmingly for the first three months. The fourth month came around and we were expecting our biggest commission check ever been about $250,000. And the check didn't show up. So we started calling immediately, no one was really answering. We got desperate and we decided to drive to this facility which was about two hours away from us. And when we got there, the place was basically empty and vacant. So you can imagine what's running through our minds. And finally someone opened a door and was just trying to leave. And we knew that person because we'd been working with that company for a few months and they let us in and we said, what's going on? What's happening? Where's our commission check? And they said, I'm sorry, we went out of business. The owner's still back there in the back. He comes in from time to time. But we had to shut down. So we proceed back to that owner's office and he's shocked to see us. And we said, where's our commission check? We've earned these commissions, we've earned this money. We have to pay people, we have obligations. And he said, you're not getting your money. And we said, well, what do you mean we're not getting our money? We have a business to run. We've done our side, we performed. He said, I'm m telling you right now, don't ask me again, you're not getting your money. And with that he opened his jacket pocket and there was a pistol in a holster. Making sure that we knew not to get aggressive because he was not going

Speaker D: to pay us and not to ask again, right?

Speaker C: So we obviously didn't want that kind of trouble. So we kind of shocked fashion backed out of the office and left. And we were desperate. We had choices to make. So on the way back we called our attorney and our attorney said, you need to go out of business, you need to file for bankruptcy. It's understandable, these things happen. It's not your fault if he went out of business owing you this money and you have obligations. You have no choice because you don't have the resources to survive. So we were devastated and questioning why we ever did this in the first place and what was wrong with us. Why would two kids be able to build Such a, uh, business so quickly and have it really last. We both decided to sleep on it overnight, and we got back together the next day and both came to the same conclusion. And that is, we're not going to close this business. We're not going to file for bankruptcy. We're going to find a way to survive. So talked to our employees, said, look, this is what happened, and we can't pay you, but we need you to still work until we can pay you. And we went to our suppliers that were giving us phones on credit at that point and said, this is what happened. You know, we're really sorry. We don't want to not pay you the money that we owe you, but we need you to give us more credit so that we can dig our way out of this hole. And landlords and all of our. It was a very scary time. It was a uncertain time and one that I'll never forget, but it taught me a lot about business. And long story short, we were able to go direct with the phone company because they, at that point, knew who we were and knew what had happened. And we were able to just really leverage all of our assets with very low cost to dig our way out of that hole. And we did. And it just taught me a life lesson, which is one of our core values, and that is always do the right thing and never give up. And if you do those things, you have a really good chance to survive.

Speaker D: That was three or four months after initially even starting off the company?

Speaker C: Yes. Yeah.

Speaker D: Wow. So you expanded even in the first three or four months to a pretty sizable number.

Speaker C: Yeah, we had that van, and then we opened this one retail location. You know, on the streets, we had probably about 20 salespeople that were out aggressively using their cars. We were advertising, so we were able to get a lot of inquiries. And we would go to people's homes or offices, and we would sell them cell phones in that environment.

Speaker D: Damn. So, yeah, like you were saying, a couple months into it, you were. I guess it makes sense why you're able to go public. If you're even three or four months into it, you're like this. And being honest with those people, those other business owners that you have to go to, I think they totally understand because they're like, dude, that would suck. Like, if I'm in that position, that could happen to me, right?

Speaker C: Yep, exactly right. And it taught us honesty and integrity. Just do the right things. Say, be transparent. Tell people what's really happening. And if you do that during good times and troubled Times that trust is really good. The reason that I'm here today for sure, if it wasn't for that and that kind of cultural value in my DNA that a lot of which was developed from that episode, that event, there's no way I'd be standing here today having this podcast with you.

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Speaker C: to you.

Speaker D: Again, it's trying to take the positive out of even like negative things like this. And again, it's that you're saying being positive and being open about it. If you ignored like the landlord who was trying to get your rent, then I don't think he's going to have the same dialogue with you. If you ignored him for months and just say, hey, sorry. But if you go to him and like, you don't have the money now and you explain it, it makes sense

Speaker C: and it's very easy to avoid it. Right? It's so much easier just not to call and see how long you can last. And hopefully some miracle is going to happen. But by making the call, you feel better, the landlord has more trust in you. And, you know, you work out accommodations to help each other, they become more of a partner than an, uh, adversary most of the time. Not 100% of the time, but most of the time.

Speaker D: Right. And if you do that in a negative time versus, everyone's happy to talk to you on a positive time. But if you can do it during that time, you're like, okay, this guy, I think I can trust him. Like you were saying that you build up that trust. So what point do you think we should jump to this story now? Because again, we kind of jumped back to the beginning, how you almost went out of business after three or four months, but actually ended up making it a public company seven or eight years later. We went to 2001. You said you actually sold that original company after you came back and helped them out.

Speaker C: Yeah, we sold it to Nextel. And Nextel was one of the four largest wireless service providers at the time. And I agreed to stay on as a consultant just to help them integrate. I did not want to join a big company environment, but after about six or seven months, I did want to join I felt like I could learn a lot about how to run a multi billion dollar company versus a several hundred million dollar company. So I joined and I was responsible for helping them grow the number of stores that they bought from me as well as their relationships with big box retailers like Best Buy and Walmart and Target and others. And what I discovered was the bigger the company, generally speaking, the more they struggled when it came to doing what we learned from scratch, which is creating a system that allows customers to end up through a consultative and prescriptive manner, what products and services are right for them. So uh, it really just cemented into my brain during my four or five years at Nextel that there was a huge frustration with people not feeling like they're getting heard, not feeling like they're being consulted with to get what's right for them. So we grew our store base with Nextel from about 250 to over 800 stores in three years. We cemented our relationships with the national retail providers and then Sprint and Nextel merged. I absolutely decided not to stay with the company and that's what started T Roc. I had a choice to make, you know, which was one of turning points of my life. Do I accept this job as a senior leader with Sprint Nextel and make a really great living and have a high level position or do I scratch that entrepreneurial itch that I had since the day I joined that big company. I, uh, think I was 41 years old at the time. I had three kids in private school, we had a lifestyle obligations. And so I decided to use my own money and start a new company instead of taking the safe route.

Speaker D: Why, you know what?

Speaker C: Many times ask myself that question along the way and I just really enjoy. My favorite thing to do is to take a blank piece of paper and start a company from scratch. Not buying a company, not having and being involved with something that's already established. My passion and enthusiasm comes from taking an idea from scratch and building it from zero and surrounding myself with really talented people that believe in the dream and believe in the mission and just running as hard as fast as we can to get there and knowing that you're going to have lots of challenges and lots of failures and lots of setbacks. But you're also positioning yourself to have lots of enjoyment and lots of freedom and lots of successes along the way.

Speaker D: What did your wife think about the move at that time?

Speaker C: I will tell you that is another reason why I was able to do it, because she was very supportive. I have to say, if she wasn't it would have really been difficult for me to take that leap a second time. But she was extremely supportive. She knew that my passion was being an entrepreneur and so she trusted me and uh, supported that decision. I got lucky with that. Really?

Speaker D: Yeah. Well, especially given, like you're saying, your lifestyle. I mean, you must have had millions, I imagine, in the bank and like you had this lifestyle with kids in private school. Everything's been hitting, you know, home runs, uh, financially it sounds like, up to this point. Because if you're going from this merger where it's a very, very safe job because again, you're able to help Nextel build there, I'd imagine that you're only going to get a increase and be one of the higher ups on the chain and being able to have that cushy lifestyle still probably for the rest of your life versus let me go ahead and start my own company again. Right? Is that the idea?

Speaker C: It's pretty close to that. I mean, when the company got into trouble, the first company, let's talk cellular, got into trouble. I lost a lot of value in stock because I had that IPO, if you remember. So I had this 20 some odd million dollars, but a lot of it was in stock that I couldn't sell.

Speaker D: Oh, uh, so you're like, yeah, I want to come back, I want to get my money back.

Speaker C: Think about it. Right? So I came back to save my baby, but I also came back to try to recuperate tens of millions of dollars in losses that, you know, that I had incurred. So yes, I was not starving by any stretch. I mean, we lived a really nice lifestyle, but. And I absolutely would have been easier to stay as a senior level executive in a multi billion dollar company and enjoy great benefits and stock options and all kinds of different perks. But it wasn't like I was so wealthy that I could just not work and it wouldn't matter.

Speaker D: Right.

Speaker C: I had to work.

Speaker D: Yeah. Okay. It made a big difference. When you're saying also, I didn't know maybe that you lost that much value of like how you've made it sound like tens of millions of dollars from the ipo, but they're really using stock options. So if that, uh, stock goes down like it sounds like it is, that really did hurt. So that's another, I mean, must have been a kind of a blow, right? Because especially if you stepped away from the company, then it's doing that.

Speaker C: So remember when you said, wow, you made all this money? And I said, yeah, on paper it was great, but I didn't spend it. A lot of people that get in those situations just, you know, they see that money on paper and they start borrowing against it. They start spending money on big homes and on extravagant things. Well, I did not do that. I made sure that unless that money was in the bank, it wasn't mine. And so when we had the losses, it was devastating. I always joke with people when I got the news that the stock had dropped from like $24 to $4 and they actually halted trading on NASDAQ that day because of the volume and the drop in stock price. And we didn't talk about why that happened. I'm happy to do that if you'd like. But just like right now, I was on the fourth floor of my office and I joked that I didn't jump because I was only on the fourth floor and I didn't know if I'd die if I was on like the 10th floor. Maybe I would have.

Speaker D: Yeah, well, so, yeah, tell us why it dropped because, yeah, this is a huge moment. I guess again, it sounded like everything had gone well, but 24 to $4 in a share. And I mean like I said, if you have tens of millions of dollars in those stock options, that doesn't feel good probably.

Speaker C: Yeah, it was shocking and it was devastating and it was for a really silly reason. So as I mentioned to you before, we had done all of this organic growth where we were opening stores and then we, after getting some venture capital funding, we started acquiring locations. And then when we went public, we really went on a torrent growth phase, growth trajectory. And what I learned from that is it's very easy to acquire a company, but it's very hard to integrate a company into your organization. So my partner was responsible for kind of the finance and uh, the real estate side of the house and I was responsible for all the operations. And unfortunately we had a lot of trouble integrating a lot of their systems into ours. So when it came time to report earnings, we discovered kind of at the last minute that we going to miss our fourth quarter by about 10%. We had beaten our first quarter, blew that away. We beaten our second quarter and third quarters, which is what caused the stock to go from 12 to 24 over that nine month period. We were on CNBC doing interviews, we were all over the newspapers, the Wall Street Journal, USA Today, Miami Herald, all of these different news organizations. And unfortunately that 10% miss was miscommunicated. And so the analyst on our stock got nervous and said, look, uh, I thought these guys were on track. They're missing by 10%. Let me just kind of change my buy recommendation to kind of like a hold. And so when that happened in that shorter period of time, the market panicked and the stock dramatically reduced over that four hour period. Just because of a 10% miss. That happens all the time with a lot of companies.

Speaker D: Yeah, that seems like it makes no sense to me. Just because you missed 10% that they were expecting that. Is there something more that I'm missing? Doesn't seem like it should drop that much just because you missed 10%.

Speaker C: Yeah, it's because of the miscommunication. The analyst went to market that morning saying buy that they're going to meet or exceed their expectations. And he was our lead analyst. And when the numbers actually came out and by the time we were able to get to him and tell him the situation buy recommendation was already in the marketplace. So when he finally got wind of it that same day, had to change his buy recommendation to a hold, which made the market nervous. And when the market got nervous, they started selling. When they started selling, it turned into a, like a viral thing. And that's why NASDAQ actually halted the stock because it wasn't an imploding company. It was just a company that, that had communication circumstances that caused the drop. So the answer is it can look on the surface like that arrow of success goes straight from the bottom left and straight up to the top right. But there are lots of dips and ups and downs along the way in most entrepreneurs stories.

Speaker D: Yeah, no, absolutely. So that's why I'm glad we hit on some of it because we kind of jumped over the first 10 years. I'm like, dude, that seemed too easy. But now you're telling us even the first couple of months that you almost went on to business then. So why don't we jump to you starting t rock and kind of understanding that if you could tell us like how much money you even needed to start it off, or if you started off just by yourself and just give us a better viewpoint of going from. I don't know if it was that Inc. 500 company at that point, let's talk.

Speaker C: Was an Inc. 500 recipient four times. And so, you know, that was exciting. When Nextel and Sprint merged and I left, I literally started with that blank piece of paper again. So I had no solid. I had an idea of what I wanted to do around this kind of consultative sales and kind of services business that helps people maximize their retail and their outside sales environments. But that's all I had. So yeah, I definitely decided to self fund. I didn't have any revenue. I had no people. It was just me. And but what I did have, and

Speaker D: I want to say so Sprint and Excel. So if let's Talk was an Inc 500, then Sprint and XL combining was a top 100 company or something like that. I'm just trying to go from like how big it was to what you were going to.

Speaker C: Inc 500 is way different than Fortune 500, right? So Inc 500 5000, which I've been on 15 different years now with multiple companies along the way, is really made up of America's fastest growing companies. So you can have a company that if it's doing at least $250,000 in revenue in a year, it qualifies to be a fastest growing company. And then based, you know, you have companies that are on the Inc. 500 list that have 100 million or 200 million in revenue or 500 million or more in revenue that just have extraordinary growth. So we were inc 500 with let's talk cellular. We were never, you know, Nextel sprint was a Fortune 5.

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Speaker D: Sorry for getting that's confused. And thank you for clarifying that. I think that makes it much easier to understand. All right, so you go from that big of a company down to just Brett starting off t Rock in 2003, right?

Speaker C: Yep, that's right. And you know what? I was able to do along the way. And again what I learned from that near death experience when we first started our first company was your reputation really does matter. Your parents were right when they say your reputation is everything. Your word and your integrity is everything, your credibility is everything. So I was able to develop really deep relationships and those two previous kind of career situations between letstalk.com, which was the online version and then Nextel, Sprint and one person went to Home Depot to help them launch the smart home category that we mentioned earlier. And he said Brett's the best, I want to hire Brett's company. So he took a leap of faith when he could have chosen from many multi billion dollar competitors of mine and he just wanted to work with this one person show and um, actually provided us with a $25,000 check for startup costs to launch this program. Now I don't want you to feel like I haven't put money into this company. I've put tens of millions of dollars into this organization over the years and invested with not a lot of certainty and surety that money was going to get back to me and be returned and have an ROI on that money. But ironically that company was started with a $25,000 check from our customer.

Speaker D: And so at that time were you considered a marketing company or a media company or something like that? If Home Depot's hiring you to do

Speaker C: this, we would be called either a marketing services company or what's called a three plus third party labor company.

Speaker D: Mhm.

Speaker C: Not to be confused. We're not a staffing agency like a Manpower or a Kelly. We are a third party kind of outsourced retail slash sales entity at the time that was engaged to bring expertise in people and management and information and experience to help accomplish our customers goals.

Speaker D: Okay, see so again from all that confusion at first trying to understand your business but now it makes sense too. Like if you kind of started off like this, that's what you came in. Like Home Depot was hiring you to put the these people in place who would be smart to uh, help consumers figure out what products, what smart product they should buy in Home Depot.

Speaker C: That's right. We would help them. You know, tell me about your house. Tell me about you like home theater systems. Do you have you seen these flat panel TVs which were new at the time? You know, how would you like to have your home automated with lighting and water controls and music and distributed audio and all of those different ingredients. And also we sold wireless from Verizon and Sprint as well. As you know, closed circuit video security systems and directv and satellite radio and all of those kind of major categories in one big section of a Home Depot.

Speaker D: So it's kind of like back to your when you started out a van, but now you're just adding smart products on top of it.

Speaker C: That's exactly right.

Speaker D: Okay, was that your vision right when you started? I mean like, how long did it take you to get T Rock into Home Depot and kind of figure out how you're going to make money doing your own company again?

Speaker C: It took, obviously wheels are spinning were always spinning for me ever since the day I started with Nextel, which I was there between Sprint Nextel probably four or five years. But it was really when that merger took place and I was doing a lot of soul searching and I was trying to really figure out what to do that it just dawned on me that there's a lot of need in the retail space, particularly around technology, on providing knowledge and an experienced consultative sales approach to maximizing our clients revenues and maximizing customer satisfaction. And I reached out to various of my colleagues. That's when the Home Depot opportunity became alive. And I remember arriving on a Sunday night, like 8 o', clock, an hour before Home Depot closed for just to see the location that I'd be working in. And I was by myself, I didn't have any employees. So I went there by myself at 8 o' clock and by 9 o' clock I had sold $3,500 worth of TVs and home theater systems and wireless phones and all types of products services. And it got me so excited. I knew I was in the right place at the right time. So that's kind of where it all started when it comes to T Rock.

Speaker D: So did you just like have your own booth there and I imagine again you're in Miami this whole time?

Speaker C: No, uh, that store, first uh, store was in Atlanta, Georgia. So once again I'd fly to Atlanta and it was the store closest to the Home Depot corporate headquarters. And they had dedicated about 4,000 square feet to this space. I mean it was a big space right in front of their cash registers. And so the next day I was able to get ads out. And within a few days I had two or three people that were working with me at that Home Depot. I personally trained them. Sales were phenomenal. Their same SKU sales were amazing. They were selling 70% more having the products in that position of the store as well as having the ability to have someone really help customers buy those products and then they had all these new categories that they didn't have before, that really made the category a winner.

Speaker D: Many would be entrepreneurs are, uh, unsure where to start. But John Austensen of, uh, Franbridge Consulting can help you. And luckily for you, I've got him right here. So I know we had talked about John maybe talking about the top 10 benefits of the franchise model. Could you go ahead and share those with us?

Speaker B: Yeah. Thanks Austin. Appreciate you having me back. And I'm passionate about franchising. I've just seen firsthand how it's a better path to business ownership for so many out there.

Speaker E: And I will say this though, uh,

Speaker B: you know, franchising is not right for everyone. Some of the trade offs to franchising versus maybe starting your own thing with the franchise system, you do have to stay within the lines. Now most good franchisors will let you have some leeway there, but in my experience, following the playbook and the franchisor leads to success. But you do have to stay within the line. So it's not right for everybody. Also, you're paying a royalty. You know, oftentimes this is in the 6 to 8% of revenue range back to the franchisor. And the question you want to ask as you go through the exploratory process is what am I getting support wise for that are these dollars that I would be spending on my own anyway elsewhere? So it's just something to keep in mind and we can talk more about that. But that being said, I feel the trade offs are far stronger and I put together a top 10 list here and, uh, we'll kind of run through this quickly. You know, with a franchise, you're starting on third base versus first base. Just to be cliche on you, Austin, on day one, you know the roadmap to profitability and you can start executing against it. Secondly, you're not questioning product market fit. It's already been established in similar markets. There's someone out there that's willing to pay for the service or product that you're providing. Third, it's synonymous with franchising. But you've got a playbook that's been proven out again in other markets. And this oftentimes includes things like marketing and operations. The franchisors put together the best practices, steps you take to standing up that business business in the beginning and then how to execute from there. A lot of templates as well. Fourth, franchise systems provide extensive marketing support to their franchisees. They don't expect you to have a marketing background. Oftentimes this is done for you. And that can be digital, print, any number of different mediums. Oftentimes they also have preferred vendors that have learned the business well. And as a result, you know, on day one, you're not trying to optimize your marketing because it's largely been optimized because they've been running the same marketing in other markets and they know what's working and what's not. So you're able to get an increased return on your ad spend. And I think oftentimes that goes overlooked. Fifth, you've got a technology stack. You're not having to go out there and piecemeal different systems together. They've already got everything selected and customized for you to step into. The heavy lifting has really been done on the technology side. Number six, you've got a coach on the sidelines in that franchisor. You're not in business ownership alone. Again, to be cliche, you're in business for yourself, but you're not by yourself. Number seven, again, this is oftentimes overlooked. But you've got other franchise owners across the country in similar markets. They're living the same thing day in, day out. So you're constantly sharing best practices and learnings with them. You're testing different marketing vehicles, you're finding different pools to fish in to find the best employees. And again, just helps you move faster than you would be on your own having that community. Number eight, franchising doesn't totally de risk the proposition. Granted, the numbers are a whole lot stronger from a success rate than a traditional startup. But at the onset, you get to talk to other franchise owners as you're exploring the opportunity before you ever sign on the dotted line. We call that the validation process. You also get to see past financials represented in what we call the Item 19 of the franchisor's FDD, the Franchise Disclosure document, which every franchise system has. So you get some really good visibility. You're not just building a pro forma on the back of a napkin. You know, going into it, you really do go in eyes wide open. Number nine, again, oftentimes overlooked, but you have collective buying power now. Of course, this could be for products and equipment, but it can also be for services. It could be as small as, hey, we've got an arrangement with a bookkeeping firm or with the marketing agency or with the healthcare provider where you're able to group together with other franchisees and get lower cost for your ongoing business. So again, when you think about paying that royalty, you have to really weigh each of these against it and say, wait a minute, I'm also getting a lot of savings over here as a result of that. And then finally, this is eye opening Austin, the exit value. So the Rinker School of Business recently conducted a study looking at over 2,000 businesses, their transactions over the past 10 years. And what they did was they compared businesses that were franchised and non franchised in like kind industries and what they found is that franchise businesses, when they go to sell them down the line, trade at a multiple 1 1/2 times your average non franchise business in a like kind industry. So really eye opening to a lot of people when this research came out, because end of the day we all know this. As business owners, we're not just building for cash flow, but we're also building for exit value. And then the third trifecta is of course you know, you get tax benefits by being a business owner, all of which apply in franchising as it would a startup. Uh, but you get a higher exit on average. So that would be my top 10 right there in David Letterman fashion. I certainly would love to help any of your listeners. We've helped so many in the past. But if people want to come out to our website, franbridge consulting.com they can sign up for a free copy of our book non Food Franchising. I would love to send that over to you. We have different digital versions you can download. And then if you're interested in taking a next step and feel like this is something that the timing may be right to explore franchises, I'd be happy to get on a call with your listeners and have that conversation. And again, if you come out to franbridge consulting.com, we can make that happen.

Speaker D: Yeah. Well, thank you again for joining us on this franchise segment, John. And just one more time, in case anyone didn't Hear it, is Franbridge consulting.com all one word? And John, I just want to say thank you for doing these segments with me. It, uh, helps all of our listeners of the podcast. They get to listen to it for free while you're supporting it financially, but, but they also get to learn about these cool business opportunities. So thank you for the support John, and thank you all for listening. When you left Nextel, I mean, did you make your website the next day and like start putting together these systems? Because even if you're able to hire employees in a couple days, I don't know if it's super easy to do it on, uh, some type of contract if they're an independent contractor or like you kept saying, like the W2. It seems like it's almost happened really, really quick. Right when you left Nextel, almost like the next day, hey, I'm in Home Depot selling. It's going so well that a couple of days later I hire a couple people and then. And we're good to go.

Speaker C: Yeah, no, that's not the way it happened. So it took time to get that contract signed with Home Depot. It took probably six or seven months after I left Nextel to get that contract to a point of execution. Now, uh, along the way, there was one person that I was meeting with. His name was Michael Falk, who recently passed away. Unfortunately, it was a big loss to me. Was my CFO up until about a year ago. He and I knew each other from that, let's talk cellular life. And I was telling him what I was doing and what our mission was and he jo joined kind of not on the payroll, but as someone that could help put the financial systems in place once we actually started the business with the Home Depot. That makes sense.

Speaker D: Okay, it definitely does.

Speaker C: We didn't have a website, we didn't have much of anything. We had two guys, myself and Michael, that had run small, medium and large businesses at the time. And we were very resourceful and we entrepreneurially made it work.

Speaker D: No, because it does make a lot of sense if you had someone to help you on that part. Because that seems like the only hurdle for me if I'm looking at your story from afar. Right. It seems like you're good, you have these relationships with everybody. You're good, obviously selling and to the customers and helping them understand that. But then there's another. The hardest thing is once you start hiring these people, having these systems set up, because again, you're coming from a huge Fortune 500 company who have different systems then to a small business systems. There are different types of systems that, you know, maybe you don't know the best software or whatever to run to try to keep everyone together. So just tell us about those challenges.

Speaker C: I can tell you we use QuickBooks. You've heard of QuickBooks?

Speaker D: Yeah, my grandma used to use, uh.

Speaker E: Yeah, right.

Speaker D: I'm kidding.

Speaker C: Well, we use QuickBooks from zero revenue to about $145 million in revenue before switching to our new really enterprise grade financial systems. It was actually the last major systems investment that we made to continue to be able to scale our business to a much larger number.

Speaker D: Okay, well, yeah, well, it seems like that you picked the right software even there. It seems like, yeah, you're making all these smart decisions. What were some mistakes you might have made early on in T Roc?

Speaker C: Mistakes I can pinpoint that would be worthy. I'll tell you there is a couple things that I would say that we've been very diligent about keeping our eyes on and bumping our heads from time to time. One is culture. I just can't tell you how important culture is to a company and making sure that every employee in your company understands what your core values are and what makes your company tick. And in our case we wanted to grow and be very very but we did not want to have. We were kind of like the anti big company environment is what we wanted. We wanted to be big, but we didn't want to think bureaucratically and be slow and sluggish and fat. So establishing your kind of pillars. In our case it was stay flat and close to the organization of core value. Two is to invest heavily in technology, both enterprise grade external software as well as software that we develop ourselves and hold many patents on today. And then invest heavily in people.

Speaker E: People.

Speaker C: So you can stay flat by investing in technology to automate processes and to have great reporting and business intelligence. And we want to spend a lot of money investing in people so that we can scale the business and make sure they're really good at what they do and that we can amaze our uh, customers. And then the core values are around just how you act, how you behave at all levels of the organization. And every company as you know, has a culture. Some people don't have the culture, their culture and their core values written down. Others do. The first company, we really didn't have it, but we had a culture that mirrors the culture that we have here today, which is very entrepreneurial environment, very fast paced. We want to amaze our customers. We want to have a lot of honesty and integrity. We want to embrace change and learning. You know, we want to always have fun and never take ourselves too seriously and basically be the best at what we do.

Speaker D: Even on with the technology part we're talking about. T Roc, what's one of the best things that you did early on? I know you've even said that you have patents on other software and whatnot today. But was there something that really helped you kind of explode that you invested in even when you started trock or even up till today that maybe some of us could use in our business?

Speaker C: I would make two recommendations there. One is absolutely us, uh, creating our own software that was proprietary but was also commercially available. There's kind of two schools of thought there. Do you build technology that you keep to yourself so that no one else can benefit from it, which gives you differentiation, or do you make it commercially available? Our decision was to build really kick ass software that solved a big problem in the industry, you know, and utilize that software ourselves to execute our programs, but also make it commercially available so that our customers that ah, decided not to use outsourced services could benefit from that technology for their internal resources. So that was a big differentiator against our competition. And then, and the other thing that you mentioned, give us some examples of what maybe skyrocketed your business. When you are bringing on people, I think it's really important to bring on people that have a, uh, network. They're really good at what they do, but they bring with them a network, uh, people they know in the industry that you're serving, or people that understand the expertise that you're trying to bring in. That has really worked wonders for me. And one little hidden nugget that I hadn't thought of until just now is there's kind of this connotation that people that are kind of in the twilight of their careers, people who are maybe in their late 50s and mid-60s, that stay away from those people because they're not as hungry, they might, they're thinking about retirement, they might have old views, but I will tell you that I took the opposite approach. You know, we have our average demographic of our employee as a whole. We have over 6,000 people, you know, is probably 30 years old, 32 years old. A lot of our senior leadership or a lot of people that I bring in as ambassadors have served as C level executives or senior SVPs of various large companies and have a lot of knowledge and help you avoid a lot of mistakes. So if your company is new and you're looking to avoid some roadblocks and avoid some pitfalls, I would suggest either bringing on some of these executives as advisors or board members or even in some cases employees to help you navigate through times that they've been and seen many times before.

Speaker D: Well, going back quickly to your software, what was the software that y' all made that uh, you started giving to everybody else? I mean, could you just explain that a little bit more?

Speaker C: So when I was running, let's talk cellular and when I was running the national field organization for Nextel on the retail side, I would like for people, I would require that people go and visit our retail stores once a week, for example, some of them once every other week. And I would definitely Want them to go there, speak with staffs, work with management, see what's happening in every individual store, provide some training and do some active things in the store and then kind of report back through a checklist. Are these things in good working condition or what improvements need to be made, et cetera. Well, the problem was, and still is to this day, is that very few companies have automated that process. So I would pay someone around 60 or $70,000 a year and their job was to go visit these stores and help manage these stores. But I had no idea where they were going, when they were going, if they were going, how long they were going for. And uh, more importantly, I had no benefit from the data that they were collecting when they went to that store. And for $60,000, which is $5,000 a month, I had no clue. But for $5,100 a month I could manage and control when they were supposed to go, how long they were supposed to go, for what purpose they were supposed to go there for, were they really there when they said they were there, using GPS geofencing patents, how long were they there? And then most importantly, all the data that they're collecting now is sent through the cloud to a repository. And I can run really sophisticated business intelligence and correlations on that data that help me easily determine action items that can dramatically improve the productivity of that particular store's sales and costs.

Speaker D: Did you come up with that idea?

Speaker C: I did, I did. And I actually created a very watered down version of it when I was running the field team at Nextel. And that was another one of the ideas when T Rock was originally formed and that Home Depot project came along where they paid me 25,000, if you remember I mentioned that I put tens of millions of dollars into T Rock as a whole. Well, I spend millions of dollars alone just on that software. I mean, I flew to India, I helped them architect it. I obviously don't write code, but yeah, that product was developed because of my own struggles as an operator trying to maximize my field assets that were representing my brand at the time.

Speaker D: Yeah. Again, I'm going to point back to why I was so confused kind of in the beginning about you talking about what you do. It's like, dude, there's so many layers to your story because you didn't even talk about going to India and doing. Um, I'm like, dude, I don't think he has technology background. And then now you said you came up with the idea, you know.

Speaker C: Yeah, I know, it's kind of crazy. We've Developed several products since then. And I also own an IT division as part of T Rock. And again, I'm not an IT guru, but I have a good understanding, generally speaking, for how technology can really help you automate, maximize scale of business.

Speaker D: I mean you knew that in 89 when you started selling cell phones, obviously, right? Well, I mean that software and technology that you've created, do you only license that out to mobile carriers?

Speaker C: No, no, it's available to anyone who has a field team, anyone who has people that are out visiting locations.

Speaker D: So like franchise restaurants is what I was thinking next.

Speaker C: Right, franchise restaurants, any kind of specialty retail. It could be a, uh, candles shop that has 250 locations. It could be Starbucks, it could be mainly specialty retail, but it can also be used for, let's say, pharmaceutical reps. A pharmaceutical company has hundreds if not thousands of, let's call them consultants or salespeople, representatives that are visiting the same doctor's offices every month. And just like with my problem with when were they visiting my retail stores, the pharmaceutical company has no knowledge of when and if that doctor's office is being visited this coming month. And who are they speaking with when they're there? And are they seeing what are the competitors that are in the testing cabinet and are they developing relationships with the doctors so that their product is prescribed more than um, the next product next to them on the shelf? So this fits perfectly into that pharmaceutical scenario as well. So there are many industries, anyone who has a field team that they need to help them execute the sale and, or the support of their product and service can benefit from what we call Vision by Mobile Insight.

Speaker D: Okay, so that's the name of the software.

Speaker C: Yes. So if you were to Google Vision by Mobile Insight or just go to mobileinsight.com, you'd be able to see our, uh, various software technologies there. You can Even go to trockglobal.com and you'll find it that way too.

Speaker D: Okay, so even though we were talking kind of all tech related stuff, is this the big thing that's made you big today was developing this software platform on the side that now you put in all different types of industries.

Speaker F: Industries.

Speaker C: It's a smaller portion of our overall revenue, but it is definitely responsible for us being able to get these large projects in other parts of our business because it is such a powerful tool. It gives us so much credibility when they see, you know, sample reporting and what they're going to get. It's responsible for us getting 10, 20, $30 million projects without that I would just be exactly like everybody else.

Speaker D: So, again, if I had to summarize, what do you say you do today? Then if what Just if I looked him back, it's like, I understand why it's so complicated for me to understand. If we just kept it all to the phone industry, like I was saying, I kind of understood that and I knew you had to keep simplifying it for me.

Speaker C: I know. Uh, well, I'm sorry, because it is confusing and I totally understood why you're asking the questions. And I think I have to do a better job of being able to. Even my kids say, what do you do again?

Speaker D: Right. That's what I was going to ask. That's why I try to always break it down, because usually you can break it down simply. But with yours, it's kind of. Well, now know you just point them to this podcast interview. Right?

Speaker C: That's right. That's right.

Speaker D: Oh, yeah. Well, thank you for sharing the time and sharing your complex, um, story of how you got here today. So how big is your company today as far as, like, employees and revenue?

Speaker C: We'll top 200 million this year and we'll end up with right around 6,000, 6,500 W2 employees. And we have a workforce on demand of over 20,000 that we call on for special projects and things that need to be done in a very short, short period of time.

Speaker D: So do you have grand visions for the future?

Speaker C: Absolutely. We absolutely feel that there will never be a shortage of new products and services that come about, whether it be in IoT or health or medical or technology or solar or any kinds of new futuristic technologies that require a consultative environment. So we think our core business is very sound and strong and we'll be able to grow that. I mentioned our international division and, uh, we're finding that the same retailers and distributors and service providers in the United States face the same problems as those out of the United States. So, uh, we're already seeing a great deal of traction with customer interest outside of the U.S. i think there's a big move right now for E tailers. You're seeing this happen every day now where people who are really proficient at selling online know that they need to have an omnichannel presence and they need to have a bricks and mortar presence as part of that omnichannel presence, but they have no idea how to operate retail. So what we feel strongly that by partnering with these E tailers that need an online bricks and mortar presence, they could plug directly into our platform that we've built it has all this technology and all the scalable systems on how to find, hire, train, motivate and manage their bricks and mortar operation either by running theirs on their behalf, kind of like we did for that and do for that big box retailer, or us potentially even opening those stores as a dealer like we do with T Mobile, Samsung and Xfinity. I think a lot of growth is going to happen that way. And by the way, maybe we'll whip out that van again and become a mobile showroom as another way to sell to an omnichannel experience.

Speaker D: Yeah, I mean I could definitely tell. Like could you give us a quick insight on the outside the US view of like that would seem like where you have the most growth at least with this system, with the vision system.

Speaker B: Right?

Speaker C: Right, absolutely. Surprisingly, some countries that are really, really good at their retail execution, companies like Canada do a really good job of their retail execution. And because they do a good job, they love our technology because our technology helps them become even better and have more insights. Australia is another country that does a great job operating retail but they can't wait to see and learn more about how our vision and navigate products can help them better run their retail operations. But then you have the other end of the spectrum with kind of the smaller countries that aren't as sophisticated yet when it comes to retail. I mean they need our training, they need our how do we incentivize, they need our technology, they need our sales methods and you know, we want to combine our best practices with their local knowledge and the benefits that they bring to the table to help grow that international business business for the foreseeable future.

Speaker D: Well, thank you again Brett for coming on and sharing your story. Is there any last words of wisdom that you might have for any business person or entrepreneur who's getting going and I guess maybe sometimes struggling, but yeah. Any last words of wisdom for them?

Speaker C: Yeah, I would just say that as I mentioned before, the road to success is not a straight line up and to the right and you have to know that going in and you have to know that you're going to have doomsday events that you feel are going to be impossible to recover from and you're going to have top of the world events where you're flying high and don't ever think anyone can knock you down. Just know that both of those extreme feelings are going to happen if you do the right thing, if you act with honesty and integrity, if you communicate, if you surround yourself with people that are like minded, that share your vision and share your cultural values very important, then you have a much better chance to succeed than otherwise. From a practical perspective, uh, funding is going to be one of the most important things for you to consider. So don't underestimate, you know, how long you can live without a paycheck if you're just starting out. Don't underestimate what it's going to take to run and grow your business and over what period of time. And make sure that you either have the funding in line or line of sight to the funding, or you already have it before you really embark on something like this. And look, whether you're an 18 year old or 19 year old out of high school that's always wanted to be the next Bill Gates, or if you are 40 years old like I was and you're kind of between careers and you feel like you want to be an entrepreneur either for the first time or again, or if you're retiring, you're 65, 55, 60 years old. And you know you've had a great career in your business, but you've always wanted to have your own business and you have a lot of energy and you have a lot to offer. All three of those different constituencies can be successful by starting with those core principles, in my opinion.

Speaker D: Well, Brett, thank you for coming on. If someone wanted to say thank you for doing the interview, is there a best way for them to reach you and say thanks?

Speaker C: Sure. Well, I'm on all social so beverage on Twitter. I am beverage on LinkedIn. Absolutely. Those are two of the easiest ways. They can go to trockglobal.com and learn more about our companies and they can contact us that way as well.

Speaker D: Well, thanks again Brett for coming on and sharing your story.

Speaker C: Thank you.

Speaker D: If you're looking for other tech based interviews, then consider episode 60 with Cam Doody, episode 55 with Thorin Rodriguez, or episode 50 with Max and Pedro from Winding Tree.

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