Beyond Distance: Transforming Remote Work into Meaningful Connections with Jeanette Winters

Speaker A: I've met leaders that are not interested in getting to know their employees or their teams. I don't know how you can appreciate someone and the work that they do if you don't know what matters to them. When I can meet with someone and shake their hand physically, there is a connection that you can't replicate on video. And that's why I, uh, think building relationships with employees around the world and understanding their culture is really critical. I studied uh, a, uh, theorist about cultures. His last name is Hofstady. He did a study for uh, IBM in the 60s. Now people have taken his work and have continued it since then, but what they found is.

Speaker B: Welcome listeners. Uh, my name is Sepp Wishman, your host of the Do Good Insider. Uh, where we dive deep into raw and meaningful conversations with visionary founders and CEOs who see beyond profit, elevating the lives of employees and vendors and the planet we call home. Maintaining genuine human connections in today's digital first workplace has become one of leadership's greatest challenges. Joining us today is Jeanette Winters, the CHRO from 8x8 who brings invaluable insights. Insights from managing a workforce where 48% of employees are remote. As a leader navigating the complexities of distributed teams, Jeannette has pioneered approaches to keep remote employees deeply engaged with the company culture and mission. Her experience transforming traditional workplace dynamics into meaningful remote connections has made her a thought leader. Um, from building authentic relationships across time zones to ensuring remote team members feel as valued as their in office counterparts, Jeanette's practical insights go beyond conventional remote work strategies. Today she will share her revelations about fostering genuine connections in a workplace where physical presence is no longer the default. And how these lessons can help shape the future of distributed team management. So Jeanette, very welcome.

Speaker A: Always, uh, good to be with you, Seb.

Speaker B: So the reason for inviting you and I was really keen to starting this conversation with 48% of your remote workforce of 8 by 8 are remote. So you don't see each other at least face to face. And what's to me and to you, I believe the most important piece is how do we sustain culture? How do we create genuine connections? How do we make people feel valued? So talk us through, how do you do that? Let's just start the conversation with this general, the general principles and general ethics.

Speaker A: Seb, you set the context very nicely talking about uh, authentic connection. And if you, if you think about it, it's the way we have connections physically as well. We get to know one another. And so one of my Mantras is to meet people where they are. It is not revolutionary. You probably have heard it a thousand times in a thousand ways. But I have to come to know people. You and I have had three or four conversations. We learned about our, uh, geography. We've learned about where we were raised. We learned about the ponies behind me. You know, we, we have learned about your travels. That matters, because the more I know about you, the more I can connect and the more I can appreciate who you are as a human being. And that's where it all starts. Even when I interview people, I say, I've read your resume. You wouldn't be talking to me if you couldn't do the job. But tell me, breathe life into that resume. And that's what I try to do, whether it is voice or video, uh, or even chat. And it's really understanding what matters to people. You know, uh, today you'll be on a call or a video, somebody's dog will be barking, somebody's child will come in and, you know, ask a question, or, uh, you know, life goes on. Right. And yet that's part of who we are. And that's where it has to start. You know, I try to understand what makes people interested in their work, what makes them interested in working with 8x8, what makes them interested in their domain, uh, or subject matter, area of expertise, what do they do outside of work, what do they like, what do they dislike, how do they like to work, what do they like to do in terms of schedule? You know, I've met people that say, I'm a night owl. I don't like to do things before 10 o' clock in the morning. Okay. You know, it's good to know. And so we can meet together knowing more about each other and knowing how to work with each other. But you can't do that unless you start with knowing somebody first. And that is, it is no different than if you were in a restaurant meeting somebody for coffee for the first time, uh, or in line at the grocery store.

Speaker B: Yeah, thank you for that. Uh, there's already so much. Right. Um, I would love to hear your thoughts on this. I think that all leaders, we kind of intrinsically know that to be true. Right. That we need to shape this human connection by kind of going beyond just the generic when do you want to work and what are you good at and what are you not good? Now, to really get to know this person, you just alluded to that in your point of view. Do you think that, let's call it, you know, CEOs or CHROs or founders. Do you think that even though we know we don't really understand the gravity and the power of that, and we cannot kind of fluff over it and kind of get stuck in this, putting fires out and really not making time to getting to know people. What are your thoughts on that?

Speaker A: Well, everybody is busy. Uh, you know, I absolutely appreciate that, but I have met. I've met leaders that are not interested in getting to know their employees or their teams. And when I say get to know them, we have an hr, all hands once a quarter. And we invite all of our employees to contribute photos of anything that's important. Uh, we just had one on, uh, Tuesday. We had two weddings that were, were shown. We had two new babies that have joined the family. We had new puppies, new cats. Um, somebody had graduated, uh, with their degree from college. Um, you know, that's personal. And I really believe it's the celebrations of life that really help us dive in. And I don't know how you can appreciate someone and the work that they do if you don't know what matters to them. So it's that, ah, it personalizes things, even on a group basis. You know, one of the things is that I find that my work requires that I travel extensively. So I have people in 19 countries. I've been to all but three in, uh, in the past two years. And the thing is, when I can meet with someone and shake their hand physically, there is a connection that you can't replicate on video. We know that there's such a thing as video fatigue. Unless you change modality, you change the topic. For me, it's just about making the time to, uh. And a colleague of mine in graduate school once said, go slow, to go fast. And that's why I think building relationships with employees around the world and understanding their culture is really critical. Now I have the perhaps unique opportunity, um, that I studied, uh, a theorist about cultures and he, uh, uh, his last name is Hofstadti. He did a worldwide study for IBM. Yes, he is, sir. Gidi. Gidi, uh, Hofstady. And um, he did a study for, uh, IBM in the 60s. Now people have taken his work and have continued it since then, but what they found is that there are six key elements of culture that are very unique. And uh, we can say the US and Canada are, you know, we share a border and yet we have cultural differences that are at the core. How one views masculinity and femininity, the need or desire for independence, uh, the um, the machination around power and power usage. And so Hofstady provided a really important comparison, culture by culture. And of course the United States was a prime, uh, target. That helps me understand from an academic perspective how to look at a culture. Then when I get there and I experience it, I have such a deeper understanding of the people that I'm going to meet. You know, you are German, uh, by birth, living in Australia, coming to visit the United States. You're a man of the world. I have many colleagues that are in the same situation, but I understand their cultural perspective. And then you build on from there. And that helps in team development, uh, and team productivity. Because once you know how people view data, how people view the responsibility of personal accountability and individual independence and uh, power, you know, how to get people to work better together. And uh, that has just proven to be a body of knowledge I use every day.

Speaker B: Oh, Jeanette. So fascinating. I, uh, really, I get more and more excited that you're on as long as you talk. So that is really special. Thank you for that. What I find intriguing, and I almost would love to pivot into this, if you're open to this is a little different to what we've planned out, but this piece around masculinity and femininity in the workplace.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: And we don'ts talk about, I think, male and female per se, because there are a lot of male that have a lot of femininity in them. Right. Not being able to. They're more nurturing, they're. They're more. They feel Right. And so it's not, it's not always the main. And female, as we talk about masculine, feminine. What I can say though is that the masculine is the one that's as in. As it pertains to female. And male is the one that drives, that is about goals, is about accomplishment. And then the femininity is about this piece around nurturing and creating, you know, being creative, creating a creating community. Talk us, uh, through this piece around business inherently is about KPIs, it's about driving business results, it's about accomplishing things. All those masculine qualities, how do you see the feminine quality fit into this? And how do you nurture that within 8x8?

Speaker A: So the thing of it is that it is very narrow to look at, excuse me, whether it's a male or a female, and ah, align characteristics that are stereotypic. And so, you know, the old adage that, you know, a, uh, man who is a leader is assertive and driven and a woman may be aggressive and self centered. And so we have a lot of cultural stereotypes. But as the Internet has evolved, as global, uh, communications have evolved, we've gone beyond that. And so one of the things that I know in my study of neuroscience, uh, relative to learning and leadership, as Dr. Brene Brown quotes so perfectly, we are neurobiologically driven to be seen and heard. And if we see me, I have long blonde hair, and I am obviously wearing jewelry that many would associate with, uh, a female. But if you come to know me, my nickname is the Barracuda. I've been known, uh, by that nickname since I was in sales. You know, I have a drive, I have a goal. And so yet, if you look at academically, what the difference there is that women are often looking for purpose and problem solving and outcomes that are community, collectively involved. Uh, I, uh, just read the book Lead Better, um, uh, by the former CEO of AT&T, uh, an Asian woman who was raised in New Jersey, where I was raised. So she and I have a lot of cultural upbringings that are similar. And, you know, and she talks about how she's just five feet tall, she's diminutive, and so she was set aside as if she were irrelevant or less important. Well, CEO of AT&T is pretty, you know, a pretty powerful position. And so we need to be clear. Every human needs to be seen and to be heard wherever we are, whatever we bring, and to recognize that we will introduce and serve differently. Um, you know, for me, I am here at 8x8 because I love the people that I work with, and I'm also driven because I believe in what we're doing from a, uh, an a vision and mission perspective. From the company, again, you can see the collective, you can see the community, the values that are there that are based on. Our CEO shares those values of community and contribution, problem solving. And yet, if you put the two of us side by side, people will say, he's definitely male, she's definitely female. And I think that limits us when we look at femininity and masculinity. You know, we have, uh, an erg, an employee resource group that is designed for the LGBTQ community, and we have a number of members of our team that are transgender. And so, again, the sensitivity that one builds around acknowledging, seeing them and, and hearing them and how they wish to be addressed by a proper pronoun or the name that they have chosen for themselves is, uh, when you see the importance of that, it gives you a new perspective on gender. For many of us, gender is, you Know the stereotype. But if we limit that view that women are more community minded and they solve problems, but they're less of a leader, we are really shortchanging. And if you look at the statistics, females actually rate higher, uh, on, uh, generally than male on the characteristics associated with leadership.

Speaker B: I like it. I would agree to that. Yeah. And I think it is because of this nurturing quality, which to me is all about leadership. It's not about you, it's about other people. Right. And I think we, we as males, we still try to catch up on this. Right, Interesting.

Speaker A: Well, you know, one of the things that is unfortunate and the thing that I love about, uh, the generations that are coming into the workforce today is that they are, they have been encouraged to get in touch with their emotions. And that is something that we all need again to be heard, to be seen. And our emotions are the source of connection with others. And so I really encourage people to get in touch with their emotions and to demonstrate them there. Uh, you know, tears have a purpose. You know, getting angry has a purpose. We need to be careful about that and emotion and be emotionally intelligent, managing how we interact with others and how we manage our own emotions. But there's no right or wrong and there certainly isn't a way for you as a male or me as a female. And that's something I see very few leaders falling prey to that now. Uh, they may fall prey to, oh, you're pregnant, we can't ask you to do this special project or you know, not considering somebody for a promotion because it might mean more travel or relocation. But I see those behaviors declining each and every day.

Speaker B: Thank you. I would love to talk with you a little bit about this piece around being seen that ties right into cultures now like 8x8. There are so many companies out there, small, medium, enterprise, beyond, below, in terms of staff numbers. That's fantastic. Face similar challenges. Right. Especially post Covid. You mentioned in our pre conversation that things have changed. Right. Suddenly people didn't see each other anymore the way they did before. Right. And I think you're not the only one that have gone through that. What are those specific strategies, those specific moments in time that you have implemented within 8x8 that make people feel seen, that make people feel valued.

Speaker A: So we have established expectations for leaders and managers and they start with the very basic premise of engagement with your teammates. Uh, and the, the only way you can see someone is if you know them. And you know, uh, about a year actually it was, it was right when I started with eight by eight, our visa, uh, attorneys called and said, do you know that so and so has been working in India for the past 11 months? And I said, the last report or the first report, because I'd just been there a short time that I received is that he was going for his wedding, uh, and he would be back within, uh, three weeks. And he said, the, the attorney said, well, we have records. And he has been there for 11 months, which involves tax. Even though the gentleman is a US Citizen, it's taxation. There's all sorts of paperwork that has to be done. So I called his manager and I said, so and so is. Has been working in India for the past 11 months. He goes, really? And I said, you mean to tell me you don't know where your employee has been working from? And he said, no, uh, I. Like I said, did you notice he had a different background? And he said, yeah, I noticed it, but I didn't say anything about it. And so it was this sense that it was, all I need is the person showing up. Leave your brain at the door. Leave your personal life at the door. That is such 20th century thinking. And here and now we know we get more out of people if they are able to emote and connect with their colleagues. And so, uh, you know, I called this the manager's vice president, and I said, so and so has been working in India for 11 months. And I said, his manager didn't know. And he said he didn't know. How could he not know? And we had started with our leaders to say, you must acknowledge the uniqueness of each individual and to respect each individual and to get to know that individual. And so we absolutely are, uh, built on collaboration, on problem solving. And the only way you can do that is if you understand somebody's thought process. I am extremely literal. My boss knows not to say, jeanette, go, you know, go do whatever you have to do to make something happen, because that's the order. He was an army Ranger, which is an incredibly challenging, uh, journey to even have that to be, you know, wear that, that symbol on his, his, uh, uniform. Uh, and so he knows to take the hill. But if he knows with my literal nature, he'll say, do whatever necessary within the constraints of financial. And he doesn't have to say legal and moral, but he'll say, as long as it doesn't cost us, you know, the Korean's ransom. So understanding, even subtle directions. And that's why in our management expectations, we have three mandates. We want people, our managers, to care. We want them to, uh, model role, model behavior. And we want them to connect. And so we teach our managers how to do this right from the get go. That has helped us really establish a culture that employees can expect that and you know, and then managers know they have to give it. It really is it that has been really revolutionary, you know, with our leadership expectations, you know, bigger role, and uh, that we invest in people. And again, you know, what we've told our managers, what we're telling our leaders, and we talked about our values that we drive innovation through people and we focus on results through people. And so the pinnacle or the apex of our dialogue focuses around our individuals. That's how we do it here. We're in 19 countries, we have 55,000 customers worldwide. We're talking to people around the world every day. And you have to have a certain sensitivity and openness in, in order to, to share the wealth of those experiences. But it's really valuing the people that, where you start and connection and caring is absolutely fundamental.

Speaker B: So do you think that the manager. You know, I get the point that when you are. I don't even know if I get the point, to be honest, but I'm totally with you. I'm just kind of stepping into this role of this manager a little bit. Right. So 11 months this person has been in India. You're busy, you have group meetings. Like, would that person not have had one on ones? Or like, where do you think this disconnect happened?

Speaker A: He lost sight of the fact that we work through and with people, we collaborate through and with people. And frankly, he didn't care. Uh, in my opinion, he didn't care. And that may sound harsh, but if somebody is going to another country to get married, don't you think you'd ask about, how was the wedding? Don't you think you would ask, how are you making, you know, how are things? You know, do you have in your culture, do you go on honeymoons? Do you have a religious ceremony? I mean, uh, I've been to a wedding in several, uh, weddings, uh, in my time working in India. And they're very, very fun and extended events. And this idea of not asking about why or how, you know, you see the lost opportunities there.

Speaker B: It's just like a, uh, lost. Yeah, it's a lost moment to actually build connection.

Speaker A: Right, There you go. There you go. And that's why we say, start with the people. Start with the people.

Speaker B: Start with the people. I think 8 by 8 has over 2,000 staff at this stage. With all your acquisition with Fuse and so on, right?

Speaker A: Correct. Yes.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. So two above 2,000 people. There are a lot of people to keep an eye on for you, right. In terms of your team and um, how you guys are doing and how do you filter out kind of the ones that aren't engaged, the ones that may not fit into the culture, the ones that are not aligned, that has, that have been hired for whatever reasons, but that are not aligned with the vision of 8x8 and don't want to connect like the manager did. How do you keep a tab on these people? Well, that's important, right?

Speaker A: Uh, absolutely. We do biannual engagement surveys. And so every manager gets a report, every leader gets a report. They know most teams are five to eight people. You know, if you get three people that are saying, my manager's not engaged, I'm not having one on ones. We have a mechanism, a machine that, that literally starts working. Our HRBPs are assigned to each function and department. They work with you on your engagement scores and will take, uh, remediative action. And you know, when we're, when we're seeing that disengagement, and I'm most concerned at the leadership and management level, we have to do our job. Because in that case that I, uh, was describing to you, we didn't do our job as a leader nor as a manager. You know, the gentleman didn't even. His manager didn't even know that he, you know, that he had gotten married and he had. So it's really important that, you know, gather data and use it now that will. And we are very blessed. We have over 70% engagement. If you looked at the Gallup survey that came out yesterday, first time in 10 years where engagement has declined in the US and globally. And you look at the engaged and it's uh, you know, well below where we sit in the. We're in, we're in the stratosphere, frankly, at 74% highly engaged. Right. And so that doesn't mean that we don't have things to do. But I am more concerned about moving the, the enterprise that, uh, because you know what happens? People will weed out if they're not engaged. When you have that level of engagement going on, people look around and say, wow, you know, that guy over there, he's not holding his own. He's not contributing. He's not. Maybe he's not as passionate as we are. He's not involved. I had a colleague the other day who said, well, you know, it's dinner time here, so, uh, I'm going to log off. And I mean, we're. We're talking about a major event that we were planning. And I thought. And he didn't offer to say, I'll come back after dinner or let me know what I can do, and I'll, you know, I'll jump on it first thing in the morning. He literally pulled back. And so I had a discussion with him afterwards, and I. And, um. And because to me, that was a clue. And it was a clue. He is not as engaged as I would like him to be, as we need him to be. But I also understand why he is a bit more tentative than others. And so I encouraged him to use some tactics that would help him convey boundaries. And we. We respect those here. Um, but it's. How do you let your. Your teammates know that you're with them all the way, even if you're taking time?

Speaker B: You know, what comes up for me when I'm listening to this is that we all have our shitty back to carry, right? And if we don't set boundaries and we. Whatever is going on there, it's not mine to interpret into this. But, uh, you know, usually I am of the opinion that people actually want to perform right? People actually, they are right. You know, they have this, like, I want to be proud of myself. I want to show myself, my leaders, that I. That I do a good job, that I belong. You know, the people want to belong to something bigger than just themselves. Right. But what I love what you did is the moment when you feel somebody pulls back, it's not that they're like, they would love not to. It's just that there's something that makes them feel heavy, right? So this heavy heart where, like, look, I would love to, but these things have happened and I'm not agreeing to this. And in this moment, for you to step up and to say, look, what's going on on your side, not just to pinpoint to blame and to judge the person knowing you a little bit, to say, look, what's going on? I'm interested in you. I can feel you pull back. You don't strike me as a person that usually does that. Uh, what's going on? I think it's very powerful. Right?

Speaker A: You know, we look at. And I'm a keen consumer of research, and we look at the mental health crisis we have globally. And so for me, I'm always listening in with an ear. If someone may be struggling, we have resources, and we want to give them, um, access to those resources. And, you know, again, I care and I Want every one of us to care. Now somebody flips me off and says, you know, look, Winters, I don't care.

Speaker B: Really.

Speaker A: Okay, well, if you don't care, then how do you want others to engage with you? And, you know, it helps people think and sometimes. Look, not every place is right for every person, nor is every person right for every place. And I think some of the best coaching that we can give to employees is, you know, I don't think, you know, it doesn't feel like this is the right place for you. And, you know, we have very, very talented people here. We have very, very, uniquely skilled people here in very, you know, deep, uh, technical, uh, arrays. And so if we lose one of those, you know, we. It's a. A piece we have to replace. So we really work hard at our attrition. And by the way, we have less than 10% annualized attrition.

Speaker B: Oh, wow.

Speaker A: So. But they go hand in hand. And so that, you know, um, but I would. I really believe the organization is better served if somebody who doesn't want to be here isn't here. And we can help them. We'll help them, uh, make that leap.

Speaker B: Jeanette, I think we both could talk for hours and days and weeks and months. Um, but I think we have come to time. So I want to just generally thank you, um, for your insights. This piece around, you know, this femininity, masculinity. I think we all need to think about this a little bit and how to come in balance with this, because it's not about doing one or the other. It's about. And I see that in you. I see your drive, but also see your nurturing side, which is so valuable because sometimes you have to kick somebody in the button saying, this is not good enough. And sometimes it is about to say, look, what's going on, darling? What's happening here? Right? So I really want to thank you for your insights. And, um, I'm sure that. I'm certain that other chros, uh, CEOs, founders, see, um, hopefully look at themselves as well. Right. And we're not perfect. There are things that we don't do. Right. And I'm sure that this conversation has enriched them, um, very much. So. So thank you so much.

Speaker A: Well, Seb, you have a unique way of just making time fly. And, uh, you know, the more we talk about these things, my hope is that we'll all learn something. And every time I talk to you, we do. So, uh, thank you for that. And, uh, you know, it's always a great opportunity. To share. Uh, because I learn by sharing. And my motto is learn something new every day. So we'll leave it at that.

Speaker B: Thank you so much, Sam.