What “Future Fit Leadership” Looks Like In A 130-Year-Old Company - with Britt Bargfeldt from Stark Group

1 - > Speaker: Welcome to Work in Progress, a podcast featuring 2 - > thought leaders with interesting perspectives on HR and people 3 - > and culture. 4 - > My name is Pernille Hippe Brun, and in these talks we explore 5 - > the latest trends shaping the future of work. 6 - > Today I'm speaking with Britt Bargfeldt, VP of Group Talent 7 - > and HR Development at Stark Group, one of Northern Europe's 8 - > largest retailers and distributors of building 9 - > materials. 10 - > Britt has helped scale Stark from 5,000 to 20,000 employees, 11 - > three new markets, and helped organize and shape the 12 - > organizational structure and design along the way.

13 - > Britt has a deep background in global talent strategy and a 14 - > passion for making learning stick in a fast-paced and 15 - > operational environment. 16 - > Brit is commercially driven and people-oriented and has a 17 - > strong track record within HR, people, and culture. 18 - > So, Britt, we are at the Stark headquarters, the Stark Group 19 - > headquarters. 20 - > And when I arrived this morning to a headquarter, I rang the 21 - > bell and the door was open for me, and there was a man holding 22 - > the elevator for me, which in itself was quite, you know, 23 - > surprising because usually people just mind their own 24 - > business, and if if they are about to go on an elevator, 25 - > they'll hurry up and do whatever they need to do.

26 - > But he was actually holding the elevator for me, and we had a 27 - > little chit-chat. 28 - > Uh, and he uh took off at the second floor. 29 - > I went to the fourth floor, and there was another person 30 - > greeting me and waiting for me there, which in itself says 31 - > something about your company culture, I believe. 32 - > And you have the title of I'm the vice president of uh talent 33 - > and HR development.

34 - > Exactly. 35 - > Yes. 36 - > So I believe you might have something to do with that 37 - > culture, and that's uh one of the things I I'm very curious 38 - > about to dig further into today. 39 - > But why don't you start by introducing yourself?

40 - > Who who are you? 41 - > Um It's funny because it's something you ask people when 42 - > you are interviewing them for a position or something, and I'm 43 - > always a little bit uh struggling with should I say 44 - > something personal about myself or should I start with my resume 45 - > and what I've been doing in my career? 46 - > Yes. 47 - > Um the letter.

48 - > Oh, so you ask me whether you but I'm like okay, but it's 49 - > interesting you have that reflection. 50 - > Um on top of you know the question itself. 51 - > Um what would you prefer? 52 - > Um I think that well, I would I think I would actually just 53 - > prefer to say a little bit about myself first, because that may 54 - > say something about what I'm doing and why I'm doing it.

55 - > Yes. 56 - > Um well, first of all, actually, when I think about it 57 - > now, it's I'm a mother uh of two kids. 58 - > Uh I'm a world traveler. 59 - > I've been traveling a lot in my life, uh also by myself.

60 - > Um I'm a feminist, I'm a really good cook, I'm a passionate 61 - > knitter, painter. 62 - > Uh I have this whole creative side of my life that is not 63 - > really incorporated in the corporate world, but I try to 64 - > drag it in wherever I can. 65 - > Yes. 66 - > Um I'm very curious by nature, I would say.

67 - > I'm uh from a very young age, I started hiking. 68 - > Uh I haven't done that as much the last 20 years, actually, but 69 - > I have a house uh in this forest of Sweden where I spent 70 - > time and reflect. 71 - > Yes. 72 - > Uh so I love nature as well.

73 - > Yes. 74 - > Wow. 75 - > Yeah. 76 - > So and that says a lot about you.

77 - > So what made you want to start there? 78 - > Uh rather than the corporate resume education. 79 - > In some ways, uh I love being here at at Stark, and I actually 80 - > also like the corporate world. 81 - > But there are part of the corporate world where I cannot 82 - > really identify myself with.

83 - > Okay. 84 - > So I I start there to say that there's also another side of me 85 - > that I and I try to combine these two, and and uh and 86 - > sometimes it's easy and sometimes it hard it's hard, but 87 - > it's uh I I try to insist to uh to have these two sides of me 88 - > coexist in some way. 89 - > Yeah, co coexistence. 90 - > So co the coexistence of the two sides of you uh also shapes 91 - > the way you probably inhabit uh if we could say so, your your 92 - > position and the way you Yeah, I would I would say so.

93 - > I would say so that the one can really thrive without the 94 - > other. 95 - > No. 96 - > Um so yes, it's it's uh it's a thing that I think a lot about 97 - > also in my daily life. 98 - > How can I make room for both of these sides of me?

99 - > So I looked at your resume. 100 - > So uh and it also looks like you don't have the traditional 101 - > background leading up to inhabiting, if that's the word 102 - > we use, your position today. 103 - > Can you tell us a little bit more about your educational 104 - > background? 105 - > Yes.

106 - > Uh I'm I'm uh I've been part of the Chaos Pilot School, uh, 107 - > which is uh a professional bachelor. 108 - > Um and then after I I had been there or graduated, I started 109 - > out uh in a small startup that became a scale-up um in an IT 110 - > company where we made uh video games. 111 - > It was back in 2004, I think I started there, and then I was 112 - > there for six years. 113 - > Yes.

114 - > Um, but during my time there, I felt that I needed something 115 - > else. 116 - > I I was quite interested in scaling the things uh or or 117 - > scaling the organization. 118 - > So I ended up studying a master in organizational psychology as 119 - > well. 120 - > And then you started out your career, and you said you started 121 - > out with a small startup that became a scale-up, and you also 122 - > went to San Francisco, it looks like, uh, to join a project.

123 - > Was that part of school? 124 - > That was part of school. 125 - > Okay, that was the last year at the Chaos Pilot. 126 - > We um we had to find an internship for about six months.

127 - > Uh, it could be anywhere in the world. 128 - > We had to approach uh an organization where we would get 129 - > that six months and identify project and so on. 130 - > And uh and I had this idea that I've read about um an 131 - > organization and it was also uh an organization that has already 132 - > been in contact with the school uh early on. 133 - > So they knew a little bit about the chaos pilots, but it was 134 - > called the Chaotic Commons, and it was founded by a man called 135 - > D.

136 - > Hock, he was also uh part of uh the founders of the Visa uh 137 - > card. 138 - > And um and I really liked again that experimental way of 139 - > thinking about organizations. 140 - > So I I got an internship there. 141 - > Yes, yeah.

142 - > Oh, so it sounds like you started out in a way less 143 - > corporate setting, much more like startups and innovation, 144 - > and also the way Visa was organized was quite different, 145 - > right? 146 - > Yeah, and and so now you find yourself in an organization 147 - > that's more traditional, would you say so? 148 - > Or how would you describe Stark? 149 - > It is uh it it is more traditional.

150 - > It's it's um actually it's it's an interesting organization 151 - > because it's 130 years old, but it doesn't feel like that 152 - > always, because uh it's there's been going a lot on for these 153 - > 130 years, but the last eight years uh where I've been here, 154 - > eight, nine years, it's been uh we've been growing a lot, uh and 155 - > we've been um driving the company in a different way, I 156 - > would say, than we've we did before, where we have an 157 - > operating model where we have a quite small group headquarter, 158 - > uh, and then we have headquarters in each each of our 159 - > business units that we work closely with, where it was uh a 160 - > much bigger headquarter 10 years ago.

161 - > I think we were 200, oh there were 260, yeah, and then we 162 - > downsized it to 35 people. 163 - > So when you joined, you were around 5,000 people in Stark? 164 - > Yes, yes, all located in the Nordics, yes, all in the 165 - > Nordics, yeah, and now you are around 20,000 and distributed 166 - > across Northern Europe, Northern Europe, so eight, uh, ten 167 - > different countries, and we have seven, seven different 168 - > countries. 169 - > Seven different countries, and not only the Nordics, but also 170 - > Germany, Austria, the UK.

171 - > We have a store in Greenland, as Greenland as well. 172 - > Yes, yeah, and so so that journey from growing from 5,000 173 - > to more than 20,000 in in less than nine, 10 years, uh, that 174 - > sounds like a lot. 175 - > Yes. 176 - > So that scaling, how how have you how have you managed that as 177 - > a company?

178 - > And also from seen from your uh side of the business where you 179 - > take care of people, of course. 180 - > I think that it's uh I think in the beginning what really came 181 - > in handy was that we were a quite small team here at the 182 - > group headquarters, so and it's very uh transparent. 183 - > You can see that our offices here, it's all glass, it's uh we 184 - > work very close together. 185 - > Uh so it's also quite effective.

186 - > And um so one part is that that uh we can move quite quickly, 187 - > even though we are quite a big organization. 188 - > Um, so when we first acquired the German market, which was at 189 - > that time doubling our size, um it all went on quite quickly. 190 - > Yes. 191 - > And uh so so um and I would say that one of the things that uh 192 - > that came in handy for me as a person is my very pragmatic way 193 - > of doing things, um but but also that uh we had a small team 194 - > that uh that worked very closely together on from it from day to 195 - > day.

196 - > And then we quickly also when we got the access to the 197 - > company, went in and assessed the top management to see is 198 - > this the right people to drive the change that we want to have 199 - > in this organization. 200 - > Should we change any of them? 201 - > Should we place them otherwise elsewhere in the organization 202 - > and so on? 203 - > So so I would say that that was more a structured way of doing 204 - > things that I've actually done before.

205 - > Um and then over a period of time, it's been it's actually 206 - > been quite uh interesting to see how that has evolved uh or not 207 - > evolved. 208 - > So so on top of that, after we got the German business, we 209 - > acquired uh a whole business in the UK, which was even a bigger 210 - > market. 211 - > And based on the experience we had in Germany, we actually were 212 - > a lot quicker in making some really tough decisions uh on how 213 - > the management team should work or how that how they um what 214 - > people should be in that management team.

215 - > So so that was uh based on the experience, we just adapted the 216 - > way that we went into that market. 217 - > That's very interesting. 218 - > So when you you speak about mergers and acquisitions and and 219 - > did did you say you acquired them or how how did you vocalize 220 - > it? 221 - > What kind of language did you use?

222 - > We ack we acquired both because we integrated them into to 223 - > Stark. 224 - > To Stark, yeah, and your values, your set of values and 225 - > ways of thinking. 226 - > So it was not so much like finding a culture fit that would 227 - > kind of blend the two different cultures, but more like we 228 - > actually know what we want and what we think about management 229 - > and leadership. 230 - > And what was that?

231 - > What kind of values and what were you looking for when you 232 - > looked at that top management to see if there was a good fit and 233 - > match? 234 - > That's a good question because we actually worked a lot on 235 - > that. 236 - > Uh, because one of the core beliefs we have here in in Stark 237 - > and in Stark HR is that you cannot make a really sustainable 238 - > uh performance if you do not do it in a in a good way. 239 - > So you have to have the the right behaviors with you as 240 - > well.

241 - > You have to be decent in the way that you operate. 242 - > One of our core values is decency. 243 - > Um so what I I in in in plain English, I would say you cannot 244 - > create good results if you if you act like an asshole, 245 - > honestly. 246 - > Uh and when I say that to people out in our business and I 247 - > say it like that, they understand it.

248 - > They're like, yeah, of course. 249 - > But that wasn't a given when we when we started working with 250 - > the culture. 251 - > Um so so we have we made actually a performance 252 - > management model where um an integrated part of that, a huge 253 - > part of that, was how do we measure people's behavior? 254 - > Yes.

255 - > Uh, and how as a as a parameter uh that is just right to the 256 - > performance of the financial uh KPIs we have, the strategic KPIs 257 - > and so on. 258 - > Yeah, and how do you measure people's behavior? 259 - > How we measure we have a very um we have a very clear 260 - > leadership model that describes what kind of behavior is it that 261 - > we expect from our leaders. 262 - > Yes.

263 - > Uh we also have all engagement surveys, for example. 264 - > Uh we have uh we have uh performance talks where we an 265 - > integrated part of that is also about how people are thriving 266 - > and so on. 267 - > So I believe most companies at our size have that, but uh but 268 - > what we do is uh we make sure we have good follow-up processes 269 - > and and we make sure that there is also um a consequence if we 270 - > experience that people are not behaving uh according to our 271 - > values.

272 - > And so do you do you have to train the managers or the 273 - > leaders to so so it's not, I assume, it's not only HR's 274 - > responsibility to take those conversations. 275 - > Absolutely not. 276 - > Okay, so how how do you organize that? 277 - > That would be impossible.

278 - > Um what we started out doing uh seven years ago was that we 279 - > designed a program for what we call branch managers. 280 - > So we have all these stores out there, which is uh a branch for 281 - > us. 282 - > They also have like a distribution center around it, 283 - > some of them. 284 - > Um and so and some of them can be actually small businesses uh 285 - > in our business.

286 - > So it can be a branch can be up to a hundred people, that's the 287 - > biggest branches, but they can also be four or five people. 288 - > So it's really a wide range of uh of different uh types of 289 - > units that you have to manage. 290 - > But what is common with them was that we saw that the branch 291 - > manager has the biggest impact on the value that we can create. 292 - > So I designed a branch manager program uh that we together 293 - > actually with our uh HR directors out in the countries, 294 - > and then we sent that out and said to all our business units, 295 - > it's your responsibility to to within these frames that we did 296 - > here and within the behaviors that we described here to train 297 - > your managers to live up to this.

298 - > Yes. 299 - > And then we follow up on that by um by actually monitoring uh 300 - > in our engagement surveys that people can are asked Do you see 301 - > this? 302 - > Do you see these behaviors? 303 - > Yeah, smart.

304 - > Why did you choose to let the local HR professionals uh and 305 - > the local managers uh implement the program rather than having 306 - > like everyone fly in and do it from the corporate headquarters, 307 - > or what was the thought? 308 - > It's because in our DNA here at Stark, it's it's very important 309 - > that there are some autonomy out there, uh, which is also 310 - > something that I personally believe is the best way to do 311 - > things. 312 - > Um I've been part of other businesses where we did the the 313 - > other way around, and I can see that even though we, for 314 - > example, say we are very alike in in the Nordics, we are very 315 - > different when it comes to leadership.

316 - > And I can see very small things can make a huge impact. 317 - > So that's also why I have this strong belief that if if we can 318 - > define something that makes sense for everyone, we can find 319 - > a common ground and then they can implement it in a way that 320 - > actually makes sense for them and their leaders and their 321 - > markets and the results that they need to create, it creates 322 - > the biggest uh impact. 323 - > Awesome. 324 - > So so it's it sounds like you you were thinking globally or 325 - > think global, but acting locally and and uh living by that, but 326 - > also uh not negotiating whether those behaviors were the right 327 - > ones or not.

328 - > You you kind of said this is the behavior we expect, but how 329 - > you train for it and live it is also culturally defined. 330 - > Yes, I would say so. 331 - > Yes. 332 - > Uh because it can it can actually have a very different 333 - > uh look and appearance when when it comes to the local market.

334 - > Yes. 335 - > Uh and you can make many mistakes if you think that you 336 - > can just do one size fits all when it comes to this. 337 - > Um so when I when I defined the leadership model, I actually 338 - > did it in collaboration with the countries we had at that time. 339 - > Yes.

340 - > Um and when we had to implement these things in the newly 341 - > required businesses, uh, it hasn't been without uh 342 - > discussions, but it's been, I I would say it's been fruitful 343 - > discussions in a way that they understand what is it that we 344 - > actually want to achieve. 345 - > And sometimes I have had also to back down because they have 346 - > explained to me if you want this, we need to do it this way 347 - > instead. 348 - > Or this will not fly here because it sounds, it sounds 349 - > wrong.

350 - > Uh so I also have sometimes to just put my beliefs or my way of 351 - > thinking uh somewhere aside because it it it doesn't really 352 - > uh fly. 353 - > Wow. 354 - > So so there the the chaotic way of looking at life and how it's 355 - > all uh dependent on on the people involved but also the 356 - > cultures involved, and the context. 357 - > And the context requires quite a span, right?

358 - > Of of letting different realities live at the same time, 359 - > it sounds like. 360 - > And so how do you then make sure that uh a behavior, a 361 - > wanted behavior, is lived on the floor? 362 - > You have engagement service, of course, but but uh how do you 363 - > other than that keep track of whether people actually do that 364 - > or not? 365 - > Live those values and behaviors?

366 - > That's that's a really good question. 367 - > Um I I first of all I have to say I'm not I'm not myself 368 - > monitoring that. 369 - > Uh the business unit is monitoring that, and then they 370 - > sometimes report back to me uh what they experience. 371 - > But I would say that one of the things that we have uh 372 - > succeeded in incorporating in our uh local HR communities and 373 - > our our leadership, uh the way we we practice leadership is 374 - > actually that we are in this together.

375 - > So I think that there is also a sense of if people see 376 - > something that is not in line with that, they actually act on 377 - > it or speak up, or you know, so I think that there is also a 378 - > system where uh I think people realize that it's quite a great 379 - > culture to have when when we succeed, and they're protecting 380 - > that. 381 - > So it becomes a system where we need to protect it. 382 - > It's self-protecting because we need to protect this in order 383 - > to be able to have a a place where we where we actually want 384 - > to be.

385 - > Yes. 386 - > One of the interesting things that we start looking at now is 387 - > actually how do we then create a uh an organization that is more 388 - > inviting for younger generations because we can see 389 - > that our our age span is is uh much above uh above 45 uh uh out 390 - > in the business. 391 - > And um and it's not always that they understand what it is that 392 - > young people want. 393 - > Uh so that's uh we haven't got a solution for that.

394 - > Is that a uh uh something they've said to you, or is that 395 - > something you have sent? 396 - > I can see it in when we look at how many people are we getting 397 - > in as apprentices, uh, and for how long do they stay after they 398 - > have finished their apprentice or their internship? 399 - > It's not that long. 400 - > Okay.

401 - > And it's and there are many different reasons for that, I 402 - > think. 403 - > Uh there are some structural reasons, there are some 404 - > behavioral reasons, there are some leadership or leadership 405 - > gaps, I would say, that they need to understand also how do 406 - > we lead these young people. 407 - > Yes. 408 - > So uh so that's I don't have to.

409 - > So you look at the Data and then uh ha have any of the local 410 - > branch managers brought it up as something they also see as a 411 - > challenge? 412 - > Uh not that I know of, but I think that that's more because 413 - > they are so focused on their sales. 414 - > So they're like, oh, whoever works here, let's just uh move 415 - > on. 416 - > Yeah, so they're not so occupied with do we have the 417 - > workforce of tomorrow or so?

418 - > No, to in the future. 419 - > No, exactly. 420 - > But if we are not starting to have that lens now, I think we 421 - > will have a problem at some time. 422 - > I guess not only in Stark, but actually in the whole business, 423 - > all the whole uh yeah, yes.

424 - > Okay, interesting. 425 - > Yeah, and this this maybe leads us to what actually brought my 426 - > attention to you in the first place, which is a program you've 427 - > um spearheaded. 428 - > I I is that too much to say that you spearheaded it, uh, 429 - > called Future Fit. 430 - > Yeah.

431 - > Um, and that sparked my curiosity because that's first 432 - > of all, it it has this futuristic look and what is it 433 - > actually we need, what's coming. 434 - > But also um forward thinking. 435 - > And and then you mentioned in the video talking about that 436 - > program that emotional intelligence was a big part of 437 - > that. 438 - > Yes.

439 - > So talk us through what does this program consist of? 440 - > What what what made you think of this program in the first 441 - > place? 442 - > And then I would also really love to hear a little bit about 443 - > how did you manage to to sell it to those who should actually 444 - > accept it in the in the first place. 445 - > Um that was many questions.

446 - > Yes, that many maybe just you let's start with it. 447 - > What is what is future fit? 448 - > Future fit is our leadership program for our group people, 449 - > yes. 450 - > So people that worked here at group first of all.

451 - > Yes. 452 - > Uh, I hope in the future that we can also expand it to the 453 - > senior leadership teams that we have in our business units. 454 - > Yes. 455 - > But I actually think that before we could do that, uh, I 456 - > think we should take our own medicine uh and make sure that 457 - > whatever we send out there is actually something that would be 458 - > good enough that we would take it ourselves.

459 - > Yes, uh, or do it ourselves. 460 - > So um so it's a leadership program where we actually try to 461 - > close the gap between having been uh an organization that 462 - > needed to lead 5,000 people, and now we are an organization that 463 - > needs to leave lead 20,000 people uh in a world that looks 464 - > a little bit different. 465 - > That looks a little bit different and which is ever 466 - > changing. 467 - > You would say that probably also 10 years ago, but it's just 468 - > even uh at a bigger scale now, I would say, right?

469 - > Um, and it's also different markets. 470 - > So I think one of the things that uh I did to sell it in to 471 - > the the XCOM was to keep talking about that I was really afraid 472 - > of um that we had a huge risk if we did not try to close the gap 473 - > between how do we how do we lead today and how do we need to 474 - > lead in the future. 475 - > I'm sorry. 476 - > Um and I and the people that uh that is here at Group, uh I've 477 - > honestly never been at a place where uh they are so good at 478 - > what they're doing.

479 - > Uh it's really great people we have here. 480 - > But I also think that they're all people that weren't hadn't 481 - > really been part of such a big organization or such a big 482 - > transition before. 483 - > No. 484 - > So trying to talk about how that could be a risk, and we 485 - > could actually fail in that if we just closed our eyes to it 486 - > that got their attention in the end and said, okay, we can see 487 - > that this is actually an uh there's something we don't know.

488 - > There's something we don't know. 489 - > Let's let's see how we how we close that gap or become better. 490 - > Yes. 491 - > Well, that that speaks to your culture because I I believe that 492 - > you know many top management groups you call it ex XCOM.

493 - > Yeah. 494 - > Um it's it's also a sign of maturity that you admit, oh 495 - > yeah, we didn't try this before. 496 - > Maybe we can learn something, maybe there's something we don't 497 - > know, maybe we can do it better. 498 - > So so which of your values does that speak to?

499 - > Is that uh actually both to decency and passion, I would 500 - > say. 501 - > Yeah, because there's also passion in it or ambition or 502 - > whatever you would call it. 503 - > Yeah. 504 - > So your values are decency, passion, and pride.

505 - > And pride. 506 - > So that there's something about okay, let's do it as best as we 507 - > can. 508 - > Yeah, exactly. 509 - > So you spoke to those values, it sounds like.

510 - > Yeah. 511 - > I never thought about it that way, but yeah. 512 - > Yeah, but you kind of did, right? 513 - > Yeah, it is maybe maybe that's what you did.

514 - > But but that's that's just interesting how you know, how do 515 - > you as HR, sometimes our roles is to convince other people that 516 - > it's worth the investment or we should spend time on this. 517 - > And how do we actually do that? 518 - > I agree. 519 - > I agree.

520 - > And I think that uh one of the things that's really important 521 - > for me, I think we talked a little bit about it when we 522 - > first spoke on the phone. 523 - > You said something about HR, and I'm like, I'm not really 524 - > defining myself purely as HR. 525 - > Uh, I know I'm I have a a title that's within the HR range. 526 - > I'm I'm out of the HR part of the business.

527 - > But for me, it it has always been trying to combine the 528 - > business and HR activities. 529 - > So, what is it the business calls for? 530 - > How can we create something valuable to to to answer that in 531 - > HR? 532 - > Yeah.

533 - > Um and you not only spoke to the values in this instance, 534 - > this also sounds like you you presented some data, something 535 - > where you could look at this as a real life problem that we 536 - > might encounter, do we not do something? 537 - > Absolutely. 538 - > Yes, absolutely. 539 - > I and I I try to do that with everything I do in my field of 540 - > work.

541 - > So, for example, when I had to convince the organization uh 542 - > about succession planning, first they were like, we don't need 543 - > succession planning because we've never done that. 544 - > And it's and and I had to make a business case. 545 - > So I made a business case showing how much does it 546 - > actually cost us to replace a branch manager if we do not have 547 - > a ready now successor? 548 - > And how much does it cost us if we do have a successor ready?

549 - > Uh and that's two very different prices. 550 - > And then I also created uh a business case on how much does 551 - > it cost us if we have a branch manager that is not really 552 - > performing, but we keep him there because we say, Oh, we 553 - > cannot really find anyone else in the market. 554 - > That's also comes with a price tag. 555 - > Yes.

556 - > And when you do these business cases, people tend to listen 557 - > when you are in a P backed. 558 - > Yeah, it's almost uh risk management, right? 559 - > Yes. 560 - > Yeah.

561 - > So then you got the the green light or whatever we have to 562 - > call it. 563 - > What does the program consist of? 564 - > What the future fit program. 565 - > The future fit program.

566 - > Well, it's a program with many different kinds of activities, I 567 - > would say, because I'm also very aware of that one size 568 - > doesn't fit all uh and there are different learning styles. 569 - > Um so we both have uh activities where we have 570 - > lectures or professors or people we fly in that have uh talks uh 571 - > about very important things, uh, where we are all together, 572 - > and then we have uh cohorts, which are smaller groups of 10 573 - > people that we uh that we place at a small island down south 574 - > that we have access to, and they are staying there for two or 575 - > three days together and work collectively on a theme, but 576 - > also on their own personal development.

577 - > Uh, then we have one-to-one coaching, and we have uh given 578 - > them the opportunity to have mentorships with other people in 579 - > our organization, so we are not closing around ourselves here 580 - > at group, but we're also reaching out to the business so 581 - > they can uh decide if they want to have a mentor, which is out 582 - > in the business, or they want to have uh a small internship 583 - > where they come out and explore uh a field or an area that 584 - > they're interested in.

585 - > So it's not a closed loop, it's an open loop. 586 - > It's an open loop, and it's um I would say I did all these 587 - > different activities on purpose because I know that some of them 588 - > have gained in most out of the mentorship or the internship, or 589 - > some of them has gained most out of uh being in the small 590 - > cohorts. 591 - > Uh, and I think it's important to be able to adapt to different 592 - > realities, which is also actually what the whole program 593 - > is about.

594 - > Yeah. 595 - > So one of the themes that we have been talking a lot about is 596 - > what I would say is called cross-cultural leadership, um, 597 - > and understanding other people and how they behave and how they 598 - > can react to you. 599 - > So that's one part, but it's also for me about understanding 600 - > yourself and what your reactions uh say about you and what 601 - > impact it has on the team that you're leading or the people you 602 - > have to work with.

603 - > Um so for me it's it's also very much about uh looking at 604 - > yourself. 605 - > Yes, looking at uh my strength, absolutely. 606 - > I know you have written a book about that, uh, but it's also to 607 - > be aware of the blind spots uh and the things that people may 608 - > find a little bit difficult about you, but you might not be 609 - > aware yourself. 610 - > Um but I try to design a program where there is room for 611 - > you to identify that, look at that, get feedback on how can we 612 - > how can how can you move on for that, how can you find a 613 - > different way of approaching things.

614 - > Yeah. 615 - > And and why is it that is important in the world we live 616 - > in today? 617 - > And and you spoke about younger generations before, and maybe 618 - > they need or require or want something different when it 619 - > comes to management and leadership and so 620 - > self-reflection that seems and looking at yourself and being 621 - > able to do something about your weaknesses. 622 - > Where where does that come from?

623 - > I think it comes from that the world is changing rapidly, and 624 - > if you don't know how you change with the world, then it's just 625 - > status quo and you will be sitting there and you will not 626 - > follow that change. 627 - > So I think it's something about how do we keep up with 628 - > everything that goes on around us and not lose the momentum and 629 - > not lose our own development uh path and not stay still in some 630 - > way. 631 - > Yeah. 632 - > I think that's some of the most important things for me that 633 - > that you actually dare to also look at what you're doing now 634 - > might not be the right thing to do tomorrow, uh, and not be 635 - > freaked out about I'm not sure how I'm going to solve this task 636 - > because the world has changed and now it looks different.

637 - > And the world is changing in many different ways. 638 - > You can see the AI, the all the wars that's going on and uh the 639 - > economy, how it changes changes and so on. 640 - > So it's um I think that if if we do not help people try to 641 - > investigate to get that mindset, uh we will get something in the 642 - > future that is not what the future calls for. 643 - > No.

644 - > So so it's learning agility, it's curiosity, it's staying 645 - > open. 646 - > Um dare to look at what's hard, not avoiding talking about the 647 - > hard things. 648 - > Yes. 649 - > Uh so that's also something that uh is very important to me 650 - > in in my life and work.

651 - > Uh both of them actually, that we that we um make sure that we 652 - > first of all have fun and stay curious while we do the things 653 - > we do, because otherwise it just becomes a performance machine, 654 - > and it's I don't think that anyone thrives in that. 655 - > Um and that's also back to the sustainable performance because 656 - > performance is just that's how a PE-backed environment works. 657 - > But you can do that in many different ways, I believe. 658 - > So the Future Fit program, the themes are uh intercultural 659 - > understanding and awareness, and then it's emotional 660 - > intelligence, then it's uh emotional intelligence, it's uh 661 - > change management.

662 - > Uh we have uh we have built it around our leadership model as 663 - > well. 664 - > So it's also about understanding our business uh 665 - > and what that calls for. 666 - > Yeah. 667 - > Um, but it's also I would say it's also a program that uh when 668 - > I designed it, uh I had this idea, of course, it should be 669 - > built around our leadership model.

670 - > Uh and it should also um it should also work with uh how we 671 - > run our business, so we should address our operating model. 672 - > But I I deliberately did not say that we have uh we have 673 - > these sessions, these seven sessions or five sessions, I 674 - > think it was, uh, and all of these sessions contains these 675 - > themes. 676 - > I had an idea, but when it when we were halfway, I actually 677 - > changed some of the content that we had in the end because I 678 - > could see that what we had experienced up to here called 679 - > for something else.

680 - > So it's ever-changing. 681 - > It is ever changing, and I think it create I'm I mean I 682 - > think again the open mindset, you need to you need to listen 683 - > to the world around you to be able to do that. 684 - > So one of the things that uh that I hadn't thought about when 685 - > I sat down in the first place to design the program, that was 686 - > actually how you build trust and the whole trust issue, and not 687 - > just trust with your peers, but also trust upwards and trust in 688 - > different nationalities because it can look different.

689 - > And uh and the more that I could see that people 690 - > participated in the program, I was like, we need to have 691 - > something about trust in this program, yeah, and leading 692 - > upwards as well. 693 - > For me, it's about holding the space and being curious about 694 - > what infolds here, what is it that they call for, uh, and then 695 - > try to design that for them. 696 - > And and then how how is it even possible to replicate it? 697 - > Um and scale it.

698 - > I think it actually is because there are some ground uh ground 699 - > rules that we have. 700 - > For example, as I said before, we have the the operating model 701 - > that we need to address, we have the leadership model that we 702 - > have designed the whole thing around, uh, we have the values 703 - > that we would never compromise on. 704 - > Um, and we have we have the idea of um what kind of behavior 705 - > is it that the leadership model calls for. 706 - > So in that way, it's the same, but it can change a little bit 707 - > when a new group comes in.

708 - > Yeah. 709 - > I would say if if we did this in one of our business units, it 710 - > would probably change a little bit. 711 - > Yes. 712 - > Uh and they would probably, if I know them well enough, call 713 - > for something that is about how do we sell more?

714 - > Which I wouldn't give them because as I said, I usually say 715 - > to them leadership uh is not about selling things, it's it's 716 - > it's actually about leading people to do to sell things if 717 - > you want them to do that. 718 - > But yes, you need to uh so it is kind of like sales, but in a 719 - > different way than they maybe anticipate. 720 - > I don't know how to phrase this, but there's something 721 - > about the fact that you are a 130-year-old company living in 722 - > the reality of the here and now and preparing yourself for the 723 - > future.

724 - > And we talked about whether you are a traditional company or 725 - > not, and and where where would you put yourself on that 726 - > narrative? 727 - > Would would you say that Stark is a traditional old-fashioned 728 - > hierarchical driven company? 729 - > Well, it's it's a very broad question because it depends on 730 - > how you look at the organization. 731 - > So, in some ways, I would say yes, we are very we are a very 732 - > traditional uh old company that works in that way.

733 - > In some ways. 734 - > And and what does but in what in what way? 735 - > Um what makes it traditional? 736 - > First of all, we have uh a lot of workers that have been with 737 - > us for a very long time.

738 - > So they have a whole career here, um, which is also why I 739 - > think that we need to look at how do we get a new generation 740 - > in and and start working or building a pipeline with with 741 - > these new talents. 742 - > Um but I would say in other ways, we actually we're we are 743 - > trying to look at the company and pieces of the company where 744 - > we take uh, for example, one department and say, how do we 745 - > make organizational design that actually fits what they're 746 - > doing, what we're going to achieve in our um strategy, and 747 - > that would also be fit for the future.

748 - > Yeah. 749 - > So so uh we've just done that with our IT department. 750 - > Uh we've we're doing it with our um German business unit uh 751 - > at the moment for the whole sales organization, which is the 752 - > biggest part of the organization. 753 - > We've done it in uh we've done it in the UK from the moment 754 - > that we acquired them because when we entered there, we could 755 - > see that it was they I I remember because I was part of 756 - > the due diligence team where we when when we were in the in the 757 - > phase of of looking at them.

758 - > And um and I got this organizational chart, and I 759 - > remember that at one of the consultings we had, someone from 760 - > from their side of the team said, It's very it's a very lean 761 - > organization, it's very structured, it's it's really 762 - > well plug and play. 763 - > It's plug and play and it's well designed. 764 - > And I had no idea what it was I was looking at. 765 - > I just didn't understand it.

766 - > Okay. 767 - > And I was like, all these layers, and what are this guy 768 - > doing? 769 - > And or what is what are these roles there for, and so on. 770 - > So and I and and in the end, it just turned out that they had 771 - > double layers, and I also experienced that I had I had uh 772 - > conversations with um with one of the consultants that were on 773 - > the team that were selling, saying, Oh, but uh, when I was 774 - > asking, for example, where does business development sit?

775 - > And he was he says, That depends, and I was like, depends 776 - > on what? 777 - > And then it just turned out that they they could have a role 778 - > that were placed three different uh places in in the 779 - > organization, and they didn't know each other, these three 780 - > different people, and they were doing more or less the same 781 - > thing. 782 - > So what we did there was quite rapidly we we redesigned the 783 - > whole organization and took out some layers and streamlined it 784 - > even more.

785 - > And that sounds horrible when I say it now, but it was actually 786 - > to also make it more clear for people and the job that they 787 - > were doing. 788 - > Um and and we didn't always just got rid of people, we tried 789 - > to replace some of them as well to to just make it more clear 790 - > what is your roles, uh role and responsibility um in this new 791 - > setup. 792 - > So so part of what you are actually doing is is also 793 - > looking at the organizational design and is it fit for the 794 - > here and now, but also for the future?

795 - > Yes. 796 - > And that might from the outside look like you're just 797 - > streamlining everything and making it uh clear and visible 798 - > and uh logical uh also. 799 - > Sometimes it is like that. 800 - > And that may still be traditional, but that works, 801 - > yes, and that gives that clarity.

802 - > I would say it yes, it it uh sounds traditional and in some 803 - > ways it is traditional. 804 - > Uh but I but I also would say that the way we do it is that we 805 - > take the the strategy that we have defined and say, is this 806 - > department organized in a way so they can actually deliver on 807 - > this? 808 - > Yes. 809 - > And a lot of the times the answer is no.

810 - > And then you do and then you do something, yeah. 811 - > Yes. 812 - > How often do you do that? 813 - > Um that depends.

814 - > It's I I mean, it's often huge project projects. 815 - > So uh and it's it's uh even though that we are involved from 816 - > here, it's uh it's organized out in the countries, so they 817 - > have to they have to implement the solution in the end. 818 - > Yeah. 819 - > So okay.

820 - > I think this is so interesting because there's something about 821 - > you being um able to change with the circumstances at hand, 822 - > yeah. 823 - > And that doesn't to me sound traditional. 824 - > No, it sounds like you are adaptive, yeah. 825 - > But that's also why I'm saying it's it's it's a mix in this 826 - > organization because I would say if you go out into one of our 827 - > stores, it's still very traditional, and and the people 828 - > there are very uh they work more or less the same way, but I can 829 - > but there has been a cultural shift.

830 - > So one little thing, and that's just a minor thing, but it also 831 - > says something about the business we are in. 832 - > When I entered, I I remember it was still quite common that 833 - > down in the the lunch room they would have uh calendars with 834 - > naked girls, which is just like a a thing that they do in this 835 - > business. 836 - > And uh and we have uh Uh we have a CEO in Denmark that's 837 - > female, and she was like, I'm just going to forbid this.

838 - > And she got rid of them. 839 - > I can't say if they still something some they are still, 840 - > but I I think that they are gone. 841 - > It was a signal. 842 - > But it's a signal.

843 - > And it's a little piece of showing what kind of culture is 844 - > it that we want here. 845 - > Yeah. 846 - > Yeah. 847 - > And then a debate around why is it that she has that request?

848 - > Yeah. 849 - > Yeah. 850 - > And also the way that you we talk to each other, because we 851 - > are serving customers that can have a rough language, but that 852 - > doesn't necessarily mean that we are going to have a rough 853 - > language. 854 - > And how do you how do you react if you experience uh a customer 855 - > having a rough language towards one of your colleagues?

856 - > Do you just stand there and look at it, or do you actually 857 - > interfere and help that colleague that might be standing 858 - > there and has just freezed because it's a it's it's an 859 - > unpleasant situation? 860 - > Exactly. 861 - > Yeah. 862 - > So that's also something that we that we are working with.

863 - > How do you differ from your competitors? 864 - > Uh I I think uh or I know that we differ a lot by having the 865 - > operating model that we have. 866 - > So having a very small tight group uh office uh headquarter 867 - > is not how they operate the other uh our competitors. 868 - > No.

869 - > Um so so we we really try to have as much autonomy out in our 870 - > business units so they can drive their business the best 871 - > way for their market. 872 - > Yes. 873 - > Uh for example, here at Group, we do not have any uh we do not 874 - > have any sales, uh group salespeople, we do not have any 875 - > uh commercial people, we do not have any logistic people. 876 - > Um that's all out in the business unit, and it's uh it's 877 - > organized in a way that fits their market the best way.

878 - > Yeah. 879 - > How are you organized in HR? 880 - > Um but it's more or less the same as in um in the rest of our 881 - > company. 882 - > We have uh a small HR department here at group, um, 883 - > and then we have HR departments out in the in the businesses.

884 - > So at group we have uh we have the area that I run, which is 885 - > all the development things that are related to HR. 886 - > Then we have an operational uh department, and then we have uh 887 - > a rewards department. 888 - > So it's uh so that's the three areas we have here. 889 - > Uh and we are very much aligned with what's going on out in the 890 - > businesses, and and we have we work closely with with all our 891 - > um stakeholders out there.

892 - > How do you position yourself? 893 - > Is that okay to ask you uh towards we can always to watch 894 - > your colleagues? 895 - > Is it is it like this is my peer, or this is my stakeholder, 896 - > or this is someone I need to serve, or is this someone I need 897 - > to tell something? 898 - > Or that there's many there are many different ways you can meet 899 - > people.

900 - > I like that question actually because it's uh it's it also 901 - > says something about our culture. 902 - > Exactly. 903 - > Um I think I see them as someone I have to co-create 904 - > things with. 905 - > Yeah.

906 - > So they are my colleagues. 907 - > And and how does that differ from meeting them maybe as 908 - > someone you need to tell something? 909 - > Or well, I try not to tell people a lot. 910 - > Like you have to do this.

911 - > I try to make things that are so great so they want it. 912 - > Uh that's also the narrative we have at group uh HR. 913 - > So there are very few things from our perspective that we say 914 - > you must do this. 915 - > I think there is only a handful.

916 - > One of them is that we need to have the same way we do 917 - > engagement surveys so we can compare. 918 - > Uh we need to have the same HR uh system so we have data the 919 - > same way. 920 - > That's a non-negotiable. 921 - > That's a non-negotiable.

922 - > Yeah. 923 - > We need to they need to follow what we agree on group level, 924 - > but I but that's co-created with them. 925 - > Yeah. 926 - > The way that we um make the leadership program for our 927 - > branch managers, for example.

928 - > So um, so there are things where of course it's not 929 - > negotiable, but it's it's very few things that is like that. 930 - > We have the same code of conduct training, but that's 931 - > about it. 932 - > Oh wow. 933 - > Yes.

934 - > Great. 935 - > So I think we're nearing the end. 936 - > Um, is there anything I haven't asked you yet that you would 937 - > like to add or something that you think is is interesting for 938 - > people to hear about when it comes to no, I I don't know. 939 - > I think uh what I was thinking about in preparation for this 940 - > meeting was that what's important for me is of course 941 - > the why are we doing things, but it's also the how.

942 - > And I think that uh having these things going hand in hand 943 - > with we need to create results, but we need to do it in a 944 - > sustainable way, is what is actually core of the way that I 945 - > want to work uh in an organization. 946 - > And why is that important? 947 - > Because why does it have to be sustainable? 948 - > Because if if uh it's back to where we started about if if we 949 - > are not uh decent in the way that we we are with other 950 - > people, uh they don't want to work with us.

951 - > They find somewhere else to do. 952 - > It's as simple as that. 953 - > And I think that if we lose our spark, we also lose I would say 954 - > the possibility to create something great. 955 - > Uh so we need to keep that sparkle.

956 - > And I don't believe, and that's a belief I would say, that 957 - > people are are only driven by creating results for an 958 - > organization. 959 - > They're also driving about they are also driven by having a 960 - > great place to work. 961 - > Um they are driven about being in an environment where we 962 - > actually create each other or or treat each other in a great 963 - > way. 964 - > Yeah.

965 - > And and where they can bring their personality to work. 966 - > Absolutely. 967 - > Yeah, and their passion. 968 - > And their passion.

969 - > Yes, your value system. 970 - > Yeah. 971 - > Great addition to what we've been talking about. 972 - > Yeah.

973 - > Yeah. 974 - > So I think you also in your questions asked me about uh what 975 - > inspires me. 976 - > Yes, and also how you keep yourself future fit. 977 - > Oh, that's that was the question.

978 - > Something we haven't touched upon yet. 979 - > Okay. 980 - > Uh how I create myself or how how I stay future fit. 981 - > I think that uh I try, of course, I intend uh conferences 982 - > for HR people sometimes, but that's not the most important 983 - > things to stay ahead of my game, I would say.

984 - > It's really to listen to other perspectives than the ones that 985 - > I come from. 986 - > So, for example, I just started to be a mentor for students at 987 - > ITU that has great ideas. 988 - > So I'm a startup uh mentor for those, for some of those people. 989 - > Um so one thing is that they are young and they come with 990 - > fresh perspective.

991 - > I actually think that's a a very good thing as well, that 992 - > team up with someone that's not your own age, older, younger. 993 - > I have a really great friend who is 82, and uh and I have uh 994 - > actually one of the one of the people that I also find great uh 995 - > inspiration in is is my student assistant that comes from CBS. 996 - > I mean he has great perspective on many, many things. 997 - > Um but it's also to be aware of what actually creates peace for 998 - > me, because peace for me is clarity in my work and my 999 - > decisions.

1000 - > Uh so that's everything from making sure I spend enough time 1001 - > with my kids, making sure I have enough time off. 1002 - > Uh I spend time in nature, I knit all those things. 1003 - > So I I nurture my creative side because otherwise it's uh it 1004 - > becomes blurry for me somehow. 1005 - > And so that's inspiration for me as well.

1006 - > Wow. 1007 - > I love that answer. 1008 - > That's because it's it's unusual. 1009 - > So very often people say, Well, I take this course or I I go to 1010 - > whatever, you know, summer school or within our fields, 1011 - > within the same area of line of learning, which is inspirational 1012 - > to some.

1013 - > But you you touch on something very basic, also very human 1014 - > basics that many of us perhaps forget on a day-to-day basis. 1015 - > Yeah that we need to be grounded and in touch and slow 1016 - > down. 1017 - > That's actually if I can give people a little part of that in 1018 - > the future fit program as well. 1019 - > I I think I've I've done a lot.

1020 - > Because I think that they can they tend to forget as well. 1021 - > Yeah. 1022 - > Or people tend to forget. 1023 - > We do, yeah.

1024 - > Right. 1025 - > But maybe this is just the most beautiful way to end this. 1026 - > And it's been such a pleasure speaking with you about both 1027 - > your career and what brought you here and how you organized 1028 - > yourself, but also learning about the Future Fit program. 1029 - > Thank you so much, Britt.

1030 - > Thank you. 1031 - > You've been listening to the Work in Progress podcast on 1032 - > people and culture. 1033 - > If you enjoyed this episode, please feel free to share on 1034 - > social media. 1035 - > For more resources on people, culture, and working in a modern 1036 - > world, please visit get session.

com and check out our 1037 - > articles, guides, webinars, and more. 1038 - > Thanks for listening.