Episode 329: Stop Fixing Women: Start Fixing Leadership Culture with Kim Anthony.

Speaker A: Developing the leader within Podcast Leading Beyond Limits. Welcome back everyone. If you haven't subscribed, please do so right now as it'll help getting our show to others and help us reach our next milestone. Today's guest is Kim Anthony, a leadership coach, keynote speaker and workplace culture expert who is passionate about helping leaders show up and as their authentic selves. Through her groundbreaking work in identity Attunement, Kim empowers individuals, especially women leaders, to overcome limiting beliefs, embrace their unique strengths, and lead with confidence, purpose and resilience. With more than 20 years of experience inspiring audiences around the world, Kim helps organizations create cultures where people thrive, engagement increases, and leadership potential is fully realized. If you've ever wondered how authenticity can transform both leadership and workplace culture, this is a conversation you won't want to miss. Kim, welcome to the show.

Speaker B: Thank you, Enrique. So such an honor to be here.

Speaker A: No, thank you for being with us. And folks, uh, we asked him to speak about Stop fixing Women, Start fixing leadership culture. And I know it's a comical title, but it really is something that needs to be talked about. But before we get into that conversation, Kim, um, if you wouldn't mind telling us a little bit about you that maybe the audience may not know.

Speaker B: Okay. Well, I am the founder of Brilliance Mode. And with Brilliance Mode as a keynote speaker, I share from my background of growing up in a environment of violence, financial hardships, drugs, to become a world class gymnast. And I take the principles that I developed to get through and get over those obstacles and I translate them into leadership principles that people can take away and use in their workplace. And then I also am an icf, uh, certified executive coach. And my philosophy of coaching is I help high achieving women overcome the barriers to success. And then, you know, as you mentioned, I've spent Now it's over 25 years working with women. And mainly Enrique, it's been in the area of sports, professional sports. And just probably about maybe three or four years ago, I've decided to branch outside of the world of sports. I'm still working with the sports world, but wanting to provide my services and encouragement for women from all backgrounds.

Speaker A: Outstanding. And we appreciate the work you're doing. And folks, that we, we are going to be talking about something that's very important. I was just discussing with Kim here, women empowerment, that process, this is something that has been needed, uh, forever, right? You look at any historical film and how they portray women versus how they portray men versus and it may be because it's a seemingly world dominant, you know, men from the Men perspective. But I've always believed that once you treat and you care for and you develop this relationship with a woman in a capacity where they feel that they have everything they need, you don't need to look any further. Right. They'll. They'll give you everything. Right. But many organizations are trying to figure this thing out, and they say they want to empower women, but their efforts often focus on programs rather than culture. What are the biggest misconception leaders have about empowering women, and what should they be doing differently?

Speaker B: Well, one, um, thing I've found is that the misconception they have is that women need to be more like men, so to speak. And I'll put that in the stereotypical aspect, because we know that men and women are different. But there's a tendency, a propensity for us to see men in these strong leadership positions, very authoritative, um, aggressive. And the women is that the women are typically, um, placed in this position of caring, nurturing, which is what many women are. Not all women are that way. So I want to, you know, up front to say that women are different, men are different.

Speaker A: They.

Speaker B: We can't put them in boxes and keep them there. Right. But what I found is that the nurturing part of the woman, the caring part of the women, are pieces of them that organizations feel are not the proper place for a woman to be. So I think they want them to leave that aspect of them behind. Now, I can't give any personal examples of women that I've worked with for confidentiality purposes, but I can give you an example from my mom. So my mom, she rose through the ranks and became, uh, the vice president of an organization. And she did so in this nurturing way because she cared about the people that she worked with. She used that part of her womanhood to actually create teams that surpassed all of the other departments in success. But had she not done what. What she was used to doing, which was walking in the fullness of who she was designed to be with this caring, nurturing nature, then she would not have had the success that she did. And people often wondered, why was she so successful? And I believe she was the first woman and definitely the first black woman in that position in the company. And she did not succumb to, hey, you know what? I need to lead like them, the men in the organization. But she said, you know what? I'm going to lead the way. I feel that these individuals will thrive. And that's exactly what she did. And I think also you have on one end, don't bring that nurturing part. But then on the other side, you have be more aggressive. You know, we should be more aggressive, be like the men. But then there's this double bind that researchers have found that, that if women are aggressive, if they are curt or, um, strong in the way they lead, then they become unlikable. They become, I won't use the word they'll, they'll, you know, use certain terminology to describe them. So women end up walking on this tightrope where, oh, I can't be too nurturing, but then I can't be too aggressive or I won't be liked. And so how hard is that for a woman to lead in an organization?

Speaker A: And I've seen that play out so many times. I have an example, and thank you for sharing that about your mom. So good for her to choose for herself which way she will lead. And a lot of times that leadership journey is chosen for people. As you just mentioned. You have to be this and you have to be that. And it goes completely 180 from who they are. And basically it chips away at your authenticity. And once you stop showing up as who you are, then not even you know who is showing up every day. And so you, you can't play that role out. And no wonder there's so much attrition in leadership when you're trying to do something like that and you speak about authenticity or, uh, you teach identity attunement as a way for people to embrace their authentic selves. Why do so many women feel pressured to lead according to someone else's definition of leadership? And what happens when they begin leading from their authentic identity instead? As the, uh, example you just shared?

Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, you think about it. Even in 2026, there are many women who are stepping into leadership positions, and they are the first. So in the past, those positions have been held by men. And if you think about it, even men, they have pressure to lead like someone else as well and not be their authentic selves, because this is the way it's always been done. And if that person before them was successful in the way they lead, then whoever steps into their place automatically feels like, okay, this is how it's done. This is how I need to do that. Um, and so there's pressure to be like that person that was before you. And the identity attunement, where that comes in, it changes the dynamic in that women begin to lead from their authentic selves. And basically what identity attunement is, is really being in touch with who you are. Beyond the expectations of others, beyond what our cultural, um, influences are. But it's you being able to say, you know what, here's who I am and I'm going to step into that space. Because if you think about it, Enrique, if we're trying to imitate other people, we're always going to be imitators and we'll never be the very best, but we are experts on ourselves, right? If we're in attunement to, in attune to who we are. So when you are attuned, when you're operating in the fullness of who you've been designed to be, then first the burnout rate diminishes. Because think about it, if eight hours of the day of your life is spent trying to be someone else, that is exhausting. Think about that next. It gives her team permission to be themselves. So if the leader is saying, you know what, here's who I am, here's what I want to be, and here's, you know, how I'm going to operate, then her team has the freedom to do the same. And then they're going to be there, bring their best work and their best innovation because they're not worried about, okay, I think differently from everybody else, and I'm seeing this whole problem in a different way, but nobody else is seeing it the way I do. So what I'm seeing must be wrong. I have a son who works in the film industry. He's a visual effect artist, visual effects artist, and he was self taught. So he has this innovative way of doing the job. He knows, um, the taught way, the school taught way, so to speak. But he also has an innovative way of doing things differently from anyone else's workflow because he had to figure things out on his own. Well, he is now he's doing, you know, major feature films and if I named them, you would know what they are. And his team, one of his teams won an Oscar for, um, their work on a particular movie. Well, he has people bringing problems to him. And because he is operating in his unique identity, he is able to tell them things that are way off script and they're actually helping his company and perhaps saving his company a lot of money because of the way he does things. So translate that back to a woman being able to operate in her authentic identity as she overcomes some of those barriers that are systemic that have been there for years. She is able to bring innovation to the table that would not otherwise be a part of what that company is dealing with.

Speaker A: Very powerful example. There to, to ponder because there's a lot of us that have been employed in one way or another and have been asked to show up a, ah, different way. And you have to question, uh, at least yourself and is this worth my life, the life that I'm investing, the time that I'm investing, is it worth killing little bits of myself to make grand something else that maybe not even be here five years from now. Right. And so. But the death has taken effect and you will deal with that all of your life. And so you have to be careful on what guidance you choose to take in terms of how you navigate this world of employment and career and leadership, uh, development and all of this because at the end of the day, the one who has to pay the ultimate price is you. And you should be able and at least have the liberty to say, excuse me, but I understand what you're asking. Mhm. But if you want all the best of me, you'll let me navigate it this way. And if you won't, then I'll find somebody that trust my way of doing things. Because hey, not every company is out there for you. And so you have to be your own champion.

Speaker B: And you know what? That's. You are absolutely right. I completely agree. And it's hard because you have to be strong and resilient to be able to say no to a good opportunity so that you can say yes to the best. And one of the things, Brilliance, um, Mode, which is the name of my company, Brilliance Mode is this place where your identity, purpose and resilience intersect so you know who you are. You're walking in the fullness of that. You know what your purpose is and you're carrying that out in the world and it's impacting your home, your community, your workplace, everywhere you go. And then there's that resilience piece of that will help you to stay in it for the long haul. So resilience is what you're talking about, that gives you the ability to say, you know what, I'm not able to show up here as my full self, so I'm going to need to go elsewhere. And what we need to help our resilience is that strong group of safe people who will love us no matter what. So if we do walk away from a job, those people are there to support us. They are championing us, they're cheering us on. And they know that even if we fail, then we have those people to fall back on. They're going to continue to, to support us and love us. But you are Absolutely. Right.

Speaker A: No, thank you for that. And uh, as you was talking, I was thinking about how this, this affect. Now this is just a common person. Just one person. No, no. A male, female, Just the person. But now thinking about the woman, what is the difference between helping uh, women advance in their careers and helping women thrive? Because that's where you want them to live, to thrive as leaders. And why should organizations care about that distinction?

Speaker B: Mhm. Yes. Okay, so here's my two cents. Advancing means you get the job, you, you get the office, you get the title. But thriving means that you own the job. It means that you have the autonomy to make decisions. You don't have someone looking over your shoulder and scrutinizing every decision you make. You have the support you need to take the risks that will lead to success. Because everything you do that could lead to success is risky.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: And you need that support to take the risk and then you have the psychological safety. So you're not just wondering if they are now, the powers that be, are now second guessing whether they should have you here or not. So you're not on, you know, just on edge waiting for someone to say, oh, I think you're not doing a good job. So we're going to have to, you know, reposition you or not allow you to make certain decisions. And then the thing that a lot of people in the corporate world are not thinking about is margin. And I want to be careful here, not, I won't use any personal examples, m just out of respect for um, the people that I've been around. But if you have, are able to have margin to care for your well being. For a woman in leadership, that looks like having the right administrative support, the right team so that you can delegate those tasks that anyone can do so that you can be free to focus on that which only you can do. And sometimes, and I don't know, Enrique, and maybe you can speak into this, I don't know if it's because we're women and because maybe there's more expected of us in terms of those administrative tasks that need to be, um, done. But there are times when women are placed in positions of leadership without that support and they find themselves doing the administrative work and the leadership work that they are called to do and nothing gets done.

Speaker A: Well, yeah, it's a common thing to see. At least in my experience that I've seen, uh, leaders are ill equipped and under supported by hierarchy. Right. So uh, typically that will be the lot to most leaders, regardless of whether it's male or Female.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker A: But what I believe also is that uh, there's a, an expectation on a woman to just do more for less.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: And so when you have that expectation in an already established under supported environment, then you just brought it down another notch for the woman. Because we know that organizations, they eat through their leadership, they eat through their workforce. And I don't think that they really think about all we're going to target just the lady. It's just in general, it's just that there's another level of expectation on women that I don't see much for men. And that's why that setup is that way.

Speaker B: Mhm. And you know what, um, if I may take it back to like the biblical text, the word helper that is assigned to a woman, the um, the word for that is the original word was Ezer and that is more related to the calvary coming in. It is not this subservient doormat that is walked over and has no say, has no voice, but it is the rescuer, the calvary, the strength that comes in. And I don't know if that has something to do with the way women are looked at or viewed. Uh m. Even whether it's in the church or in the workplace. But uh, we are very capable of leading. There's so many examples of doing that. Um, and I don't want to get off topic truly. Uh, but I just wonder just the view and you talked about the, the perspective of certain things are expected from women that are not expected from men. Um, and maybe those men are getting more support in their, with their administrative help, the teams that they're around. And women are expected to step in and do just about everything. And that is what leads to burnout. Because the women are handling all of these tasks that maybe they shouldn't be, that could at least easily be delegated to other people. Uh, and um, yeah, we need to watch and manage the energy of our leaders for sure.

Speaker A: Well, I love to stay on that topic because I love the biblical reference, but as you were speaking, this thought crossed my mind. If you are a man doing a task and you need help, and God has designated the woman as a help mate. Mhm. A person to come in and support who's weaker, the person that needs help or the person that's providing help. And I'll leave it at there.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker A: I'm just saying, you know, for men to think that this is their world, but biblically, they've already been designated as needing help. Need.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Uh, yeah. I don't know. So we'll leave it at that.

Speaker B: Huh. That is. Mhm. Yeah. I think there is nothing that can top that. All right, that's a good, that's a good thought.

Speaker A: No, it's, it's just one of those things that make you at least consider that. Hey man, we, maybe we've been having this all wrong.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: All along. And we've gone through uh, this whole process of identifying who's who in our life. And uh, when you misinterpret a thing because you don't know the contextual nature of the words that are being used.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: Then you go about the things wrong. And then what you do is you misalign. Right. You don't attune. You misalign m the whole trajectory of how things are supposed to be. Because I'll tell you, Kim, this house may be under uh, the disguise that this is mine, but in my palace the ruler is my wife. And I don't care what people say, oh no, the man runs. There's nothing that I would do in this house without consulting her because I see things one way and she think she see things a thousand ways and that's just the way it is. And so it would be unwise for me as the designated head of the household to proceed to the next step with my family without allowing the person that's seeing from a thousand ways, uh, uh, an opportunity to voice what this next step looks like from her perspective and then allow us to collectively say yeah, that's a way that we may not want to go or that's definitely the way, uh, to go. So. And I give my wife all the accolades necessary. Uh, because there's a lot that she does that I don't do and there's a lot that she does because of her capability that I am not able to do so.

Speaker B: Right. And, and that's the beauty of the relationship. We, we're two different people, two different abilities, and we come together as one. That oneness. And I'm not, um, wasn't prepared to talk about the, that word helper even more. But God himself calls himself a helper using that same term that he uses for woman. So there you go.

Speaker A: Yeah. There's a Kai Walker song that I love. Jesus is my help. Right. How can you refer to.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: The person who came to say the word as hell if it's not something strong.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: And that's why I'm saying when you come to help, it's because you got that. And some.

Speaker B: Yes, yes. Mhm.

Speaker A: All right, now you've Worked with leaders for over two decades now. What patterns do you see in organizations that successfully retain and develop women leaders? And what are the warning signs that a culture is unintentionally pushing talented women away?

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, the, the patterns I see in those organizations that help women to be successful and they retain those women are sponsorship, that is, when there is advocating for women who are not in the room and providing opportunities for them to come into the room and offer what they have to give. And then there's this trust where when they're positioned in leadership, they're trusted with the position and not micromanaged. They're allowed to do what they were hired to do. And then open dialogue. I believe, and I don't know how much this is happening, but I believe there should be open dialogue between men and women to talk about those differences and expectations. Because it's in those dialogues, in those conversations that those unconscious biases pop up and men and women will begin to see those unconscious biases and start to say, oh, you know what? I'm not thinking correctly here. There's some, um, experiences I've had maybe just in my upbringer or whatever that is that is making me believe that you are less qualified for a position like this than I or some other man would be. So I think the conversation is so important, and I don't know that that is happening very often. I mean, and it has to be a, uh, psychologically safe space for that conversation to happen in order for both, you know, for the woman and the men to open up. And then that overall sense of care, um, about that woman and for her to know that what matters to her matters to her company. So if I am a woman and I come in and there's some things that matter to me, and I feel that my leaders don't understand that or they don't care about it, that is going to make me walk away. And then what I've noticed that pushes women away is giving a woman a seat at the table for optics only. And this is when a woman and I have to. I'm trying to. You see me hesitating on things. I'm just trying to be careful about what, what context I share. But it. An example could be a woman who's brought in to be a part of a leadership team and they are listened to but not heard and are not able to add value to the organization, not because she can't add value, but because what she has to say is not welcomed or is not received well. And then, um, so not Valuing what they have to offer, just putting them in a position for optics only. Or and maybe in the leadership's mind it's not optics only, but the woman feels that it's optics only because she's not having her thoughts and opinions valued, then that's still optics only. Uh, and then minimizing a woman's voice where again she's not what she has or what she says carries very little weight. And there have been times when organizations have had women speak to certain things and again I'm trying to be careful where they share some realities or some concerns with certain things. And those uh, words are not taken as truth and taken as something viable. And I've seen the company suffer as a result of that. And in retrospect they can look back and say, ah, uh, we were told that this was not a good thing or that this would have this impact, but we didn't listen. And then overlooking talent and contributions. So if you see a woman who has the ability to lead and has these innovative ideas and you don't give her an opportunity to operate in that, to contribute to the company's well being with those things, then she will walk. You've heard that saying, I know everybody's heard the saying that you don't value what somebody brings to the table until you see them bringing it to somebody else's table. That is happening all over the place. And companies are looking back and they're seeing the women who used to be in their environment now bringing their brilliance somewhere else. And they're saying wow, how did we

Speaker A: miss that and how did they miss it? Is because they weren't equipped for it. You know when your sight is. But so far.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And you know, this is all self awareness kind of encapsulated in self awareness.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: When a company fails to know exactly who they are and why they doing things, they'll limit others and will allow them actually they will usher them to where they are best suited to be. And so if you're that type of company, you're not doing a self awareness check. And you see attrition uh, is pretty high. It's not the people leaving, it's is the environment that they are leaving. Right. And so very, very uh, great point there. And I, you know, I will use my personal example. I was hired as a leader because of my strong leadership and then um, was stifled. Right. Was like this push down whenever I was going to lead and it doesn't take me long to know that I'm in the wrong place and so, sure enough, not long after, I just quickly was able to say, don't waste my time. You brought me here to do a particular job. You're not allowing me to do a particular job. And so it's not what I expected from being hired for that job. And so I will kindly leave. And, you know, it does take a strong personality and a very assured person to have those type of conversations that maybe the audience is not at that point or they feel they are tied to a particular salary or location or things like that. And so not everybody can have that type of conversation, and I know it, but sooner or later, you're gonna have to put the chips on you instead of putting the chips on every other company that does not value you. And so just a con, uh, uh, something that you'll have to converse with yourself about. You know, when, when are you going to say, enough is enough, and I know my value and I'm going to bring it whether with. Whether it's with another company or with my own. Right? Because we've seen a big influx of entrepreneurship and folks wanting to go that route, uh, because there's a lot of settings that will not change. Now, if every leader listening today wanted to become a stronger ally and advocate for women leaders, what is one mindset shift and one action they should implement immediately?

Speaker B: I would say one would be knowing that you are an advocate, not a savior. You are partnering with the woman. You're not rescuing the woman. Again, it goes back to that autonomy. Um, if I am feeling that someone is coming alongside me to rescue me, basically what that's saying to me is, you're doing this for you, not for me. But when I have somebody partnering with me, then they're going to help me to overcome some of those systemic barriers that are preventing me from rising as high as I can rise within that organization, whether it's in leadership or in principle of being able to share my ideas. And then, uh, I have to say, you can speak up on behalf of that person or those people that you're advocating for. And it's not about going on a tirade. But an example would be, say we're in a, um, meeting, a board meeting, and I, as a woman, say, I suggest we do something, and people hear it, but there's no traction really gained. But then a man says the exact same thing that I just said two minutes later, and everybody's like, oh, my goodness, that's a brilliant idea. So if you hear that happening, then you, you know, you don't have to, you know, Make a big deal about it. But you can say, you know what, I agree with that. And that is the very point that Kim brought up just a few minutes ago. So yes, we should move in that direction. So even that will help people to realize. Oh yeah, we didn't acknowledge it when Kim said it, but we acknowledged it when Bill said it. Um, so, so that's. Those are just a couple of examples of how you can come alongside and support. So advocate, not rescue and speak up.

Speaker A: Very powerful. And I don't see how leaders can't just be honest. You heard somebody say it, just bring it up. And if you stay quiet, you're just as uh, ingrained in the system as anything else that's keeping, uh, both male and females from progressing. Because we should not have a dedicated support system. It should be a support system where everybody gets the same level of support and it is the highest level of support. So a lot of times leaders will try to divide this type of support based on this and that. Know your people.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: So a lot of leaders haven't invested in what it takes to be the best leader for their people. And so they fall into these pockets of support. And I now I got to be intent, no be intentional all the way across.

Speaker B: Period. Yeah.

Speaker A: Period. And look at your people. Who's the ones that are doing their best? Know them. Mhm. Hear them, speak to them. You said something earlier and I was like, man, if I ever heard a leader come into a room and address the women and say, I know there's been systemic things that have held women that not here. That's not the type of leader that I am. We're going to ensure that the progression here meets your effort. Now I can't rescue your effort. Right. I'm not going to go and try to, uh, you know, bring you out of poor effort.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: But if you give your all. Mhm. Then I'm going to make sure that you get your all, you know, and that's all that people are looking for. And, and leaders bring those buckets of things. And so if leaders, those that can make decisions in the career development, in the progression and the advancement of their people were just honest. And if you know that you can't do that, then be honest with, with the people and say, hey, I know you and my team, but I got some blocks that probably you're not going to get nowhere. Why, why can't you do that? No.

Speaker B: Well, some of them don't know they have the blocks. Right, right. Those blind spots.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: As you were saying, That I was thinking about, um, those people, some, some may use it as an excuse. Well, I don't know what to do. I don't know, have a conversation, learn about what you can do. And we can't even, we, you know, can have a little bit of a broad brush. But I would say talk to those individuals who, whom you work with and learn from them. And you're going to find that each person might need something a little bit different because of their past experiences. And as you have conversations, then you as a leader will, will grow because you will know what your, what your staff, what your team needs and how you can come alongside them and support them. So I think the excuse of, well, I don't know what to do and doing nothing, that's not, not valid at all. You can learn something. It, you don't even have to. I mean if you want to take a course, that's wonderful. I'm not against courses because I'm a, I'm a lifelong learner. I'm always in school doing something. But uh, it doesn't have to be, I go take this 10 week course. It can be, hey, study your people, study the women you work with and see what it is they need that you can come alongside them and bring.

Speaker A: Absolutely. Have those conversations, folks. If you're in leadership positions, have them, have them often have them in different settings. You know, get the best out of your people so that you can provide the best for your people. Now Kim, I know that you have just uh, or just fresh off a retreat, but what do you have coming up and where can the viewer or the listener follow you or support you?

Speaker B: Yeah. Thank you for giving me the opportunity. May I share a little bit about the retreat? Okay. And the reason I'm sharing about, I just came off of a retreat, uh, in Montana, uh, with a, uh, group of women. Four days in the beautiful mountains of Montana on a 10,000 acre ranch, Five Star, the Ritz Carlton of ranches. And we were loved and pampered on. I led several sessions each day. And um, the sessions were on identity, resilience and purpose, which is what brilliance mode is. That um, where those things converge. And what I did was I would, I did workshops on each of those topics and talk to women about how they can live their lives in brilliance mode. At the end of our time, we um, had a commitment ceremony where the women who had gone through the program, some of them stood up and committed to living their lives in brilliance mode, which is basically walking in the fullness of who you designed to be, and they receive these little commitment buttons that they can wear to remind themselves of what they're committed to do in every aspect of their lives. And I'll be having these retreats in the future for women leaders and women who really want to own their identity, clarify their purpose, and build the resilience they need to stay in it for the long haul. So if you're interested in learning more about that, you can reach out to me on my website. It is kim anthony.com and also if you're interested in an executive coaching, you can find me@kim anthony.comm as well. And if you're interested in having me do a keynote or workshops with your organization, I'd be happy to do that for you. And you can reach me at the same place kim anthony.com and if you want to follow me on LinkedIn or connect with me on LinkedIn, I'm @kim Anthony. I think that's it.

Speaker A: Outstanding. Uh, well folks, we'll have those link as part of the video in the show notes so that you can be able to connect with Kim and support and even go to one of those retreats. And folks, today's episode is sponsored by the Global Trends magazine, the Outlier Project, Bone Frog Coffee, Castle and Compass Adventures, Ascend, uh, Meditations, Chop, AI Boomcaster and superpass. If you've enjoyed this episode and learned something interesting about the topic covered today, make sure to like, share and subscribe and let us know by leaving a comment. And tune in next week for another episode where we dissect leadership from another angle. And as we like to end the show, success to you.