How Art Saved His Life - Al Carns on Creativity, Culture & Career

Speaker A: You're listening to Creative Leadership with Heart, a, uh, podcast that inspires people to take action and be the leader they were born to be. M I'm coach Rico and I'm known for coaching and training executives, leaders, founders and high performers at Fortune 100 businesses, startups, and more. I'm here to answer your questions about leadership and personal development while also asking you questions that can unlock your untapped potential.

Speaker B: But I'll tell you, my moment of my career was I was an intern of beams ball kind. This is my origin story. I had no idea what to do. I, ah, walked in that place they'd never had an intern and they said, um, would you be fine with just hanging out for no pay? And I'm like, absolutely. Sat behind a couple of people. I learned a few things. Fast forward a couple of months. There was this big project. They couldn't figure it out and they just said, give it to the little guy.

Speaker C: Welcome to Creative Chutzpah. My name is Leonard Samuels. I'll be co hosting with Rico Nizal where we'll be interviewing artists and business owners in the world of creative. We hope you enjoy.

Speaker A: What's up, everybody? Welcome to another episode of Creative Chutzpah. It's me, Rico Nassaul and Leonard Samuels. Today we have a, ah, great guest of ours, Al Karns. He is the senior art director at Lionsgate Entertainment. How are you doing today, Al?

Speaker B: I'm doing great. I'm motivated. Uh, we've been doing some great work, um, creatively and also for the community. So I'm really pumped up today.

Speaker A: Nice. Yeah, I'm gonna, I'm excited to get into that part of it. But first, before that, let's get to know you a little bit. So tell us a little bit about yourself. Where did your journey start as a creative and what made you decide that this was the thing for you?

Speaker B: Yeah, that's a great, uh, question. I think my family has a background of both creative, uh, and technology as innovators. We have artists on one side and we have, uh, you know, medical and science professionals on the other. And I came in at a time where those things were, you know, kind of, uh, convening at a really high pace. In the 90s, technology took over as kind of the tool. You know, it used to be a paintbrush, used to be a pencil, and, uh, I've drawn my whole life. I've always loved comics, I've always loved movies, and I've always wanted to do something in art, whether it's graffiti um, but when, I think when Apple did that revolution, uh, it opened up the world for everybody. It opened up to the tools for people that couldn't get access to those tools. And it also opened up, um, a lot of access to, I think, places. And my journey was I got lucky enough to meet the right people and those people put me in a great position. They saw something in me. And I've been on a 25 year journey since my first job at, uh, Bemis Ball, kind all the way to now being on the studio side. Um, you know, like, I think when you're attracted to creative, it's just because it's in you. It's just because it's part of your soul. And wherever you, you know, where you, where you go with it, whether it's music, whether you decide to do visual, or you're just, uh, you know, putting that into people, like teachers to me are creative people. Um, I think you just find your calling and I found mine. I was lucky enough not only to find my people, but I found all these great people in this industry, um, including, you know, present company included, uh, that inspire me to not only be a better artist, but a better person.

Speaker A: Nice. And what was that moment, if you can find one? Was it a movie at some particular moment where you're like, this is what I want to do?

Speaker B: Um, there's two moments. I'll give you two. I'll give you two. My first where I knew being a professional artist was possible was my uncle is a, is an artist. He does tapestries, which is like physical textile. He does these big murals.

Speaker C: That's so much patience.

Speaker B: Yeah, I don't have that. I used to sweep his shop. I used to kind of learn. He's got kind of like a cool, like vector style, but it's just all hand done. Um, and when I saw the client reaction, he put, he would do this thing where he would drive, he would bring, he would do a piece that you didn't even ask for. He drive to your house and sit outside with this big 12x12. Um, his name is Keith Collins, by the way. But, uh, he would put this big 12 foot by 12 foot mural on your lawn of your parents or your family or the moment that you made yourself the person. So he pulled up to like Michael Jackson or Magic Johnson's house, and they would not let him leave without keeping that peace. And it was like he made a connection. And when I saw a connection, that's when I knew that there was something bigger than just me in the dark. Doing my little drawings. And when I saw the reaction, that was my moment where I was like, okay, there's something on the other side of this creativity. Um, but I'll tell you, my moment of my career was I was an intern at Bemis Ball kind. This is my origin story. I had no idea what to do. I walked in that place, they'd never had an intern, and they said, would, um, you be fine with just hanging out for no pay? And I'm like, absolutely. Sat behind a couple of people. I learned a few things. Fast forward a couple of months. There was this big project. They couldn't figure it out, and they just said, give it to the little guy. And I got, uh, my first finish for Blair wish project part two. Um, it's 25 year anniversary is next year. And it's a full circle moment for me because that was an artisan film Lionsgate acquired. Uh, artisan. So 25 years later, I'm in the building that started my career. I'd say that's the moment for me.

Speaker A: Uh, that's amazing. Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. Um, there's something about that. Stories and like the tapestries is just like a visceral thing, right? Like, even it's a family, right? Which is a, A simple thing. But like the stories and all the things, all the memories and all the emotions that connect with that, that's the one thing for me that makes creative so powerful is an image. It's. It's a cliche, but it's cliche for a reason. An image can tell a thousand words because there's so much emotion caught up in that. So, yeah, thanks for sharing that. That. That's amazing. That. That was your uncle that did that?

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. He's. He. He got the. The business from my aunt who used to just go dumpster diving for pieces of carpet to make interiors. And he uses carpet as a medium almost like we use paint. So at first it started out like abstract and quilt style, and then he started getting into like, commercial photography and using illustration. He would convert that to tapestry. Um, but I think what you're saying is the most important thing is when you see yourself on the big screen or in that big billboard or that poster, someone else immortalizes you. It's a feeling that you can't express. It's somebody else's eyes that see you, that see, like, what you're about and tell you things about yourself that you probably couldn't even recognize. Like, even the colors that he picks. Um, and I'll drop it I'll drop a link in the chat. So you guys. Yeah.

Speaker C: You know, when you say that, I feel like it's even deeper than a marketing level. I know we're in marketing, but we see it as, like, how do you sell yourself? But that is so much more like, a tangible experience of, like, looking past the selling yourself and who you are as a person, which means so much more.

Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. There's a connection we have. There's a spiritual thing. Uh, this art thing is not, it's not from the fingertips. Right. It's from the soul. And, like, I think he's, you know, he's got a great spiritual background. He's got, he's very religious. Um, he's very grounded. And he's been like, not only is he, is he a great artist, but he's a great person. And I think coming up, we saw a lot of, like, rogues and people that just kind of, like, are not the best people that are great creatives. So he gave me an opportunity to be myself, which is, I'm a pretty nice guy. I try to try my best. Um, and that there's a place for me to express my thoughts and my spirit, you know, and, and I do it through this, through this genre that we have of movie posters.

Speaker C: Yeah. I was gonna ask, how do you incorporate that balance? Because obviously, one is a lot more,

Speaker B: you know, I, I. So, Leonard, we worked on, uh, a project kind of together. It wasn't my project, but it's Lionsgate Project. And, uh, in the Blackening, and I watched people working on that project. And it answers the question is you're speaking from your experience. You're telling a story through someone else's vision. Right. It's obviously a movie that you didn't create, but you're telling stories to the people. You want to go see the film, and you're connecting, and you're saying, like, I know the thing that could get. The thing I laughed at when I saw the film is the same thing. This person will laugh. And if I could just get them to understand that I see them, they're seen, they'll. They'll reciprocate. Um, and that's a great. That was a great movie. Um, example. Because it's not the type of movie that would be a big hit, but you guys came up with this great campaign, which was, uh, uh, we can't all die first. Yeah. And if you go back and you think about the story that's been told is, black guy is always first. First person that dies, then it became a joke to always kill the black person first. Um, but then to be like, hey, like, look, it's all black people who dies first? And that's a conversation that we've all had on some level in a. In a living room or at a. At a, you know, at a family event. And I think that that's what you connected with on people. It was literally just, you know, lineup of characters. Nobody knows who they are. But you spoke to the voice. The voice is what I think. I, uh, try to find and visually we express it, but I'm trying to speak to, uh, to people a certain way. Yeah. Uh, yeah.

Speaker C: And I will say just to piggyback on top of that and not to derail from what you're talking, uh, about, but we are going to get into diversity and the importance of it. But when we did the blackening, just a little bit of, like, inside for everybody, that was a mixed group that we were. That we were writing. It wasn't all black people in a room. It was literally a mixed group. And we created a safe space for that type of writing to know, like, what is authentic and what as a marketing, you know, like, as, uh, a faceless company, you know, what is the masses going to see? Are they going to hear that joke? Are they going to get that joke? And, you know, so I think that's just as.

Speaker B: As important it is inclusion, uh, because you can't include without. You can't disclude when you're including. And those. Exactly. Those dollars come from that genre or that, uh, demographic. I like hearing what the other sides think of our stuff. I love what is your experience because you're getting a little piece of it. If I can tap a nerve and somebody that's not in my demo, um, that's a bonus for us. That's. That's the. You start being a part of a different conversation, and that's what that movie did. And I mean, you guys did a great job. Uh. Oh, thank you. Thank you. It became our theme. So, like, what we're doing is every year we're gonna hold a, uh, Juneteenth celebration, and we're gonna center, uh, it around the black because we're proud. We want to make that our Christmas movie. That's. That's our Juneteenth movie. Everyone every year needs to go ahead and watch the Black.

Speaker C: And you guys got greenlit for a sequel, so thank.

Speaker B: Hey, we. We did a great job. And you will be back, obviously, for that one. Yeah. So that's fun. Um, it's also too. It's unique because we don't get to tell those type of stories, right? We don't get to have those conversations, and then HR won't let us have that much fun. Uh, and you told me this story about the diversity of the room and how it's a safe space that is very important. That's, like the most important thing. If you look at, uh, I won't get into the diversity thing yet. I know you guys have questions, but if you look at me, I know what I look like, I know what I sound like. I don't come across as one thing or. Or this thing or that thing. You gotta. You kind of have to know me or guess to figure out where I'm coming from, where I'm going, or what my perspective is. And so I feel like I'm one of those people that's like, if you reach me, you're reaching. You're reaching a bigger audience. Um, because I have diversity, I'm. I'm of mixed race. Uh, I identify as black, of course, but I have family members that go from every, uh, spectrum of. Of the. Of the wheels. So certain sensitivities, you know, like skin color and where you're from geographically, all those things are really sensitive. Our grandparents really went through a lot, so we're still making a, uh, you know, we're still making moves, but it's nice to have a little fun. It's nice. I think that was like a turning point where people got to make fun of something that they kind of don't always get to make fun of.

Speaker C: Uh, and that was the whole point of. Is that we're inviting cultures in. We're not trying to exclude people out. And I think that's what gets, like, muddied up in this whole process, is that they're like, oh, this is a tent pole type movie, and we're only trying to market to these people. And it's like, okay, well, how do we bring it? You're trying to bring in a bigger audience, but you're also trying to speak authentically to the projects that you're on, regardless of any type of creative that you have.

Speaker B: Absolutely. You got to think bigger than. Than what the demo is. They'll say, like, oh, I don't. I don't get the movie. You'll get it if it becomes pop culture. You. You don't. You probably don't get Cowboy Carter, but you get it because it's part of the culture. Like, you're not the demographic, but you can respect it and understand it. If we can reach to the point where our films. And I'm not just talking about black films, I'm talking about films, uh, in general that are underrepresented, uh, people of color, all walks of life. If those films are just viewed as films and not black films. That's the goal. Because I, I don't do black marketing. I don't do. I do marketing. I'm trying to get everybody to come see this thing. Yeah. But of course, we keep it authentic and true to, true to the, you know, the, the, I guess the spirit of the demographic and like, for example, Snoop for, for a good example is like, he wants to reach our audience. He has his audience already. He doesn't need any more people. He's got the whole earth watching him. What he does, um, what would he need us for? Because we have one thing maybe that he's looking for. He's looking for this particular audience, international, bigger, uh, reach, or he's just looking to, like, change the opinion that you have of him. He's just rapper. Well, now he's, you know, he can act and he can produce and he can be a mogul. And I think that that came in. That's the same intersection of Apple with technology. There's also empowerment of people and letting people start to dream a little bigger. You know, the gatekeeping was, was kind of eliminated, and I took advantage of that. I went and knocked on every door I could to try to find out all the information that they've been keeping from everybody for so long. And then the Internet, and now we all got it. So it's called competition now. Uh, that leads me back to. I really want the next generation to have the proper education, the proper tools and prepare them for what I think the future is going to be. Because we can't keep teaching them these old 1980s way of thinking, you know, red type on a white. On a white background. As a comedy, that's over. It's done. We're done with that.

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, it's a good segue to getting into, like, you also own your own, um, creative agency and creative business. So let's get a little bit into that and your personal mission for that. So can you share. We were talking about a little bit in the pre show, uh, on that same note of giving back. So can you tell us a little bit about what you do at Primer?

Speaker B: Yeah, so. So it kind of. Obviously Kovia changes everything. Right. So I think I started about 10 years ago. I used to, uh, have a company with some buddies of mine called Gumbo Graphics, uh, which is again on brand with what we do. Um, and what I learned about my company was that it's all about my clientele. My company is my client. Right? So we would get a different client every couple of months and it would change our business model or it would change our, our needs and resources. You know, when you're growing up and, and trying to, trying to uh, start trying to make it, it's not that easy to just swap and switch from doing Flash animation to now web coding to platform to. So what I did was I changed my brand to be more of a behind the scenes as opposed to being a hire for hire agency. Uh, I became a consultant. I became more of a, um, I'm the little genie that you need. Um, when you're trying to solve, you know, a particular problem or you're trying to accomplish a particular graphic style, I come in and I help people that have businesses but don't have marketing or don't have, um, you know, graphic design tools or don't, or don't have an artistic, um, you know, background. I tried to do it outside of entertainment because I didn't want to double dip. But I just kept getting brought back, um, to entertainment. And so what I've done since COVID is I put the two things together. Um, one primer now the primer Creative now services entertainment and you know, uh, entertainment, but it also services the community. And so what I'll do is I'll for big name star, I'll do pitches and decks and we do clothing lines and CD covers and albums and all that great stuff. But then I'll find the person that in my community can't afford that or can't or doesn't know, like, has to know where to start. And I'll put all of this great stuff we have, I'll put it right at their door. And the amount of, it's like eureka moment. The amount of excitement and energy someone gets knowing that they've got somebody with some gravitas behind them, uh, supporting them and having conversations they've never had before. These creative conversations are amazing that we have in these rooms. We're trying to figure out psychologically what people are thinking, where the trends are going. Uh, most people are like, I just want a newsletter. How do I do it? And I'm like, yeah, we, let's, let's start, let's start at the beginning of like what your, what your goals are. And so what I've become is an activist for businesses that don't have representation or don't have the money, um, to do things, and it's less profitable, but it's just because I have a day job, I have that ability to try and, like, reach back. I can tutor, I can mentor. Um, and I think the segue of there's another. There's another piece of the puzzle is how does Lionsgate get involved with that? Because I used to have them separate, and now what I've done is I put the two things together. So our DEI department here is serving some of my clients, and, uh, my company, Primer, is on the side serving some of our DEI initiatives as a sponsor or as a. A partner. And that's. I mean, if you could tell, I'm more excited about this than I am about any Photoshop or any poster or. I'm so into helping people that I realized, like, what my real mission was never like, oh, I want to make art. I already make art. That's easy. Just go do it. What I want to do is impact people, and that's that same thing where I got. Where I, like, brighten somebody's day with art. But I can do that with business, and I can do that with, you know, things that empower people. Um, but I'll tell you that. I'll tell you the one piece. I don't mean to sort of dominate the conversation, but, um, there was an agency that reached out, and they. They. They convinced us. We were like, yeah, I don't know. We don't have a lot of time. You know, we're trying to. We're trying to do things that are big. And they were like, you don't know what it's like when they see people that look like them when walk in a classroom. Males in particular, because I. I would say, uh, women, uh, female representation is way, way bigger in that industry than males. These young boys seeing what they possibly could be and not the thing they normally see in their environment, like, the eyes just get big. And they're all artists, they're rappers, they're dancers, they're. They're athletes. Athletes in some aspect, is an artistic form as well. So all of this stuff kind of comes together, but he said it. It just means so much to a kid to know that they've been seen. And I remember being that kid. That's. That's what I do this for. I. I possibly could go do another job, um, and just still do my hard thing on the side. Uh, but I'm using now my corporate access to, um, empower some people. And it, it's, it's really fulfilling. It really is.

Speaker A: That's amazing work. Well one, thank you for, for doing that.

Speaker C: Yeah, you're using the platform for all the right reasons.

Speaker B: Yeah, I, I, I like the fact that they've given me that opportunity. I wouldn't, I've been to plenty of companies, I worked everywhere. Sony, um, I would say Beats by Dre was where I saw the, the impact, uh, before Apple bottom and, and it became sort of more corporate. They were, they were pushing culture in a way like it's still a profit model and they're doing like, you know, they do a lot of stuff but uh, for the community, but they're reaching. The culture was, was a particularly eye openening thing where it was like, hey, this demographic doesn't buy this or this demographic won't go here. And it was like, because you don't know how to speak to them. Uh, they will come out to theaters. They will. If it's, if you understand how to speak to your audience, you can get them to follow you. Um, so I think when I got here I looked around and Blackening was the project where I was like, hey, I'm not seeing things that I necessarily support or agree with on this. Who do I talk to? And they said, we have an entire company inside the company that's based just to field your concerns. And immediately they wanted me to be a part of their, the diversity equity and uh, equality and inclusion. Um, and then we have this thing called the erg, which is employee resource groups. Uh, so I'm now a board member on the group for uh. Oh, nice. It's the alliance for Cultural Change. And we, we do outreach. So the first like first week they're like, yeah, so you're going to talk to USC, uh, 1,000 students are going to show up and then I'm going to introduce the Blackening movie and they're going to watch it in the Jumbotron in the stadium. And I said, I'm sorry, what? I sit in the dark all day just pixel popping. So I, I can't necessarily say that that's for me. And I said, you'll be fine. I walked into the stadium, I'm on the center court, usc. And that's when I, that's when I, the moment came back. See what you guys don't know and a lot of people don't know about my backgrounds. I used to be.

Speaker C: Lay it down. Lay it down for us. Al, what's going on?

Speaker B: Speak on it. I use it my first dream was. Was saving the world, obviously. So I used to be in social services. I didn't know you could have a job doing art. So, yeah, um, I was a. I was a social. Social worker, data manager for at risk, uh, youth and at risk families. Like, people that basically just got out of either a court case or they just had a raid and they're. They're displaced, or they just had their kids taken away from them. And this was a place where we all. We brought them back together to try and mend, um, mend that. It's a place out in. I think it's Gardena, near Compton. And I. I was 19 at the time. This is right before I jumped into Beam Spa. Kind. And I was like, I just want to save the world. I want to help everybody. I want to do my best. And I realized I just don't have the resources. I'm not. I can't. You can't save the world from the up, from the bottom. Um, and so that's what threw me into, like, all right, well, what if I could teach graphic design to kids? So I got a job with the city of Englewood, and I was teaching kids, and one of the guys, Frank, um, hope he's still doing well. Um, he came into the class, and he's holding his neck, and. And I'm like, you know, what's wrong? He's like, I got attacked on the bus, you know, on the way over here. And I'm like, why don't you go to, like, the hospital? Like, it's not. It's not. Not good. Like, he's like, you know. Yeah. Um, he was like, I just didn't want to miss my place in this class, so.

Speaker C: Oh, my God, dude, you're breaking my heart.

Speaker B: I was like. I was like, frank, man, number one, you don't need this class. Number one, you got the heart of a champion. But two, you got to go to the hospital. It was a set of kids. And then I just realized, man, number one, I'm 19, they're 16. I'm going, what am I going to do? I'm in your boat. I'm in the same boat. I might be a little further. I might have a couple of extra people rowing, but we're not that far away. I need to go get strong, and I need to find out who those people are. And it took me, you know, 20, 20 years or so to find a company that. That could empower me to do the things that I just happen to do on the side. Um, and I Think it's really fulfilling. We did this. We did this thing called Blacksgiving where we got, uh, everybody to donate to women's groups, homeless shelters across America. Uh, we raised a good amount of money and a good amount of items. And then Lionsgate said, well, look, we've got a warehouse full of stuff. You want us to just throw it at whoever needs it? Desks, computers, TVs. They put over 10, 10 grand worth of stuff on top of my little thing. I said, okay, this is the place for me. This, it might not be Warner Brothers, it might not be Disney.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: But this place is all human. It's all heart. And I'm. Yeah, I'm so lucky to be a part of, of this place.

Speaker C: Yeah. Good job, Lionsgate.

Speaker A: Yeah, that's a big shout out to Lionsgate into the work you're doing.

Speaker B: No, absolutely.

Speaker A: The thing I always tell ask people is, you know, you can work like a, at a big place, get paid a ton, but at the end of the day, when on your deathbed, no one ever says they wish they worked more. What are they gonna say? They wish they did. They wish they would have gave back, spent more time doing things that they loved, they enjoyed, like, passion, experiencing things. Right. So for me, that's why I left the corporate world. Because, uh, I was doing more to help people than, than I wanted to, to make other people rich. CEOs don't need to be richer, right? But the people that don't have access and don't have the resources, they need help. So big shout out to what you're doing. And, and I asked.

Speaker B: I know it's about me, uh, but can I. I totally want to hear what, what you, uh, what you're doing.

Speaker A: Oh, yeah. So I, I'm an executive and business coach now, and so I help a lot of non profits and I, I'm a boy on a board, um, for an Asian American, uh, professionals network. And I just try to give back as much as I can as I can. Um, I spent 20 years. But people who are listening probably know this, have heard it before, But I spent 20 years. Um, seven of those years were as appos. Nine of those years was at Netflix building the creative studio. And so that's, that was my background. And we tried to do a lot of these DEI efforts now, but it wasn't moving as fast as I'd like to see. And Andy kind of carried the baton and he's doing it. But like, some of the internship programs that I started talking about in 2017, 2018, are just starting now. So, like, talk about moving slow, right? You're making it happen. So do big shout out to the stuff that you're doing and to. To Lionsgate for. For supporting you.

Speaker B: No, absolutely. I've seen. Because Andy. Andy shares a lot of that, and his journey is very similar. We both used to just sit. We call it the cave. They set us in a room. They locked the door. There's barely any lights, and you just Photoshop until you, you know, it's time to go home. But, like, Andy's journey in particular, you know, you're a human. You go through things, and then you overcome. That's like. That's what we do in movies. We tell those stories.

Speaker C: And, like, stories are the most important parts.

Speaker B: You guys are stories. Those are. It's not gonna end up on a big screen because it doesn't have an explosion, but it's important, man. And that I. I feel like, you know, I felt like Leonard, when I met you. Um, like, you were bigger. You were bigger than this thing, too. And you're a big, very big personality and all that good stuff, too. But I just. From your soul, your heart, I felt that there's just. If we could connect as many people as possible.

Speaker C: Yeah. In this.

Speaker B: In this, we could do. We can do major, major progress. Major. We have, like, this kind of dinner thing, I think, and I've missed the last couple, but it's just, like, the best people at the heart of soul of our industry. We kind of get together and just make sure everybody's okay. Yeah.

Speaker C: Check in.

Speaker B: Um, and it leads to, like, oh, you're doing that. I'll help you partner on that. And. And so that's how I got involved with this, is just having these human conversations. And so now I've met a new. I've met a new friend, Rico. Uh, you. You'll be getting an email from me, of course. Absolutely.

Speaker A: I believe in mentoring, too. Like, I've mentored high schools for the last. Was this 2017, 2018. And just like you, it's so powerful and amazing to hear kids say, like, I've never seen anyone look like me. Yeah, do what you're doing. Right. And I had people that reported to me that were like, I'd never seen an Asian man, like, go so far up, like, to call them my, like, boss or leader or whatever. And so, like, I. You don't really appreciate. Sometimes I didn't appreciate where I got to until somebody said, like, how did you do it? Um, because I was. You know, I had the traditional Asian Background. Just keep your head down, work hard. Don't. Don't rock the boat. Um, but eventually, I had to stand up for my team, and so I started to rock the boat and didn't realize how much. How many waves I was making and the progress I was making, um, until someone pointed it out.

Speaker B: No, it's awesome. It's awesome because you do it for. You do it for, you know, the right reasons, so you'll get the rewards and everything, you know, later. Um, but, like, yeah, we're lucky enough to be in this thing. Um, and every day I wake up and I go, I. I don't have a job.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: I have. I have a passion. I have a. Yeah.

Speaker C: Oh, wow. Quote that. I don't have a job. I have a passion.

Speaker B: I haven't had a job since I left the city of hall of Inglewood. I have not worked a day in my life because this isn't. Yeah, it's tough. This is probably tougher than just if I would have got just a regular business degree and sent some emails. Uh, there's a stress on this, but this also is, like, it's exercise for a part of your. Your brain and a part of your. Your soul that a lot of people don't get to do. We. We get to get it all out. We get to express a lot of things that people are just frustrated. We have visual ways of doing it. Like, this is crazy that we're talking. My. My first, you know, tool is not speech. It's. It's the eyes. It's showing you. Even in meetings, they're like, well, why did you do what you do? I was like, the left hand just decided to push those buttons. I. It just kind of happens. Like, it's. It's piano. You're just kind of. You're going. You don't stop to think, is that the right note or is that it's just a part of you? And so, like, us. Us, uh, even having these conversations is a progression for. For. For us. It's a progression for artists that don't have a voice normally, don't have.

Speaker C: Let me ask you real quick. Would you consider yourself an introvert or an extrovert?

Speaker B: I am. I am as introverted as you possibly could get. And then I stick myself in situations that are extremely uncomfortable.

Speaker C: Okay, so for a lot of us creatives that. This is. This is a huge panic attack already to be in this little rectangle. Um, how do you go out there to USC to speak in front of, you know, over a thousand people to Keep. To be on these boards, you have to keep putting yourself up front. How do you. How do you do this?

Speaker B: Um, I'll be honest.

Speaker A: If I.

Speaker B: If I had to take credit, it wouldn't be me. I have. I have inspiration from my family. I would say my. My grandfather is, ah, he's a. He was a radiologist, but he was a professor. So his. His job was getting up in front of the only 30 people, but he would go to these conferences and speak in front of thousands of people. Um, and I originally was going to be in the medical field. Uh, I love technology. He's a radiologist, so it was still imagery. It was still. He was using Photoshop when I was in grade school. Um, so I think. I think what. What you have to do is you have to just challenge yourself the same way you challenge your creator. You are a piece that you're working on, you're molding, and you're shaping yourself the same way. You're retouching and making that great person. I can make them look good. I can make myself look just as amazing. And then you just, you know, once or twice you do it and you go, hey, they like me. They really like me. And that's all you need. You just need somebody to kind of go, you belong and you're enough. Um, but I just don't like it. I just. There's a thing.

Speaker C: So you're like, giving these motivational speeches, and inside you're like, I wish I was not standing here. But it's necessary.

Speaker B: They are necessary.

Speaker C: There's a greater need.

Speaker A: Well, I want to give even another perspective. And maybe al, you maybe feel this, but maybe don't articulate it. So tell me if I'm wrong, because this is how I get myself over, that is because a lot of places I've been, rooms I've been in, conferences, presentations I had to give. I, uh, was either the only creative or. Or the only minority. So if I didn't do it, what did that. I was representing more than myself. So if I stepped down from that challenge, I was doing my team of creatives a disservice, and I was doing my. My race, my background a disservice, because I wasn't. I represent more than just my perspective. I've represented. If I had a. I had a team of 150 creatives, and I was the only creative in the room, I'm letting 150 creatives down by not giving my perspective. And then all the Filipinos that are wherever, you know, if I. If I Deny that opportunity, then I'm keeping them down that much longer.

Speaker B: That's a lot of pressure.

Speaker C: Wow, that's a lot of headwind.

Speaker B: It is.

Speaker A: But it, that, that I ultimately was what got me to like, it's more than me.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: This is something that's bigger than myself. And so for that I can work on myself to make this easier. And there's a quote I always say is, doesn't challenge you, doesn't change you. So gotta constantly be challenged.

Speaker C: I hope people that are watching this are jotting this down. Also. Al, you had mentioned, mentioned, uh, Pixel Poppin, which sounds like a cardi b song.

Speaker B: So I, I see that's the thing. My voice comes, I'm bringing that Pixel Popper.

Speaker C: It's a new album.

Speaker B: Yeah. Like our flavor is, is, is unique and it's needed and, and then if you don't, if you don't express it, they never hear it right. So. Yeah, then they don't get to make the decisions or the changes or appreciate your culture. Um, but I, I, I, you guys mentioned something. Um, I think it was mental health was, was kind of a tie into this. So being introverted and being stuck in that room for years, I've seen it destroy people. I've seen it just absolutely change who you are as a person. You're still making comps and you're still doing great work, but your life is just gone to you know, a, ah, place where only thing working is when you're at work. To me that's how a lot of us artists kind of get trapped into. At least that's the way it used to be. Before the computer was slow. Right. It was slower than it is now. Um, the Internet was slower. Everything was just slower. So you're stuck. And the mental health part of it, I think I saw it early was people kind of burning out and cannibalizing each other and doing that. So I took that, that um, that side of me that was sort of business and sort of in, in like uh, you know, non artistic. And I'd started developing that side so that I didn't just become one thing that I, I couldn't, I couldn't get out of my own space. I couldn't, uh, I got a buddy that like you repeat can't really do anything else other than this job. Right. This is all he can do. If they ever take away, like if AI comes over, he's got nothing else. So being well rounded is a, is a thing. But it's depressing him. It's going to the point where he's just like, I'm just going to get a job at a sandwich shop. And I'm like, you could take everything that you've learned and apply it to a new thing. That the world's changing, it's innovating. But that. That's how you accomplish mental health steps, is you open yourself up to things that you're not used to, and you open yourself up to people and places, and you get love. You get. You need the love. You need the love from these. These. The youth from your. Your peers. If you're just stuck in a room all day, I mean, nobody knows who I am. I went to a couple of agencies. They were like, who are you? And I was like, I've done all of this. They were like, we've never heard your name. It's like, because I can't sign it. I can't. I can't sign a poster. You're never going to know it was me. And then you. You end up feeling a little bit, like, mentally, you know, depressed. I'll be really honest. Um, and then there's those times where you're not landing art. It's just. You need to have an outlet, and you need to have a way to develop yourself beyond.

Speaker C: Yeah, that outlet is so important.

Speaker B: It leads to starting your own thing. At some point, it just does, because you go, all right, it's not working. I'll build it myself. Yeah. People that are like me, and I'll build a world. Now, what I tried to do with Primer, I tried that. I tried to, like, all right, I'm gonna do an agency, and I'm gonna compete with the big dogs, and I'm gonna. I can't do what a studio can do. So, um, being on the studio side, I have 500 employees that are down to do anything that I want to try. Um, as long as, you know, I go through the proper channels. But just. Even. Even now I'm like, in a. I'm in a position where we're planning, uh, to go to the White House, um, for. For our Juneteenth celebration. They have a big thing at the White House. And if I'm just stuck in my little. My little world, and I don't. I don't make myself accessible, I wouldn't even be in the conversation to be invited to that. So I think that's. If you get a little piece, it starts. It's just like that art thing. It starts getting addictive. You start getting that other. That other dopamine starts Starts releasing when you're like, all right, so I don't have to draw anything to be accepted. You would just accept me for who I am as a person, and I can contribute. And that's made me into more of a leader, I think. Um, my little nephew told me. He was like, I've seen you kind of grow. He's 18 now, so he's seen my entire career. And he's like, I'm so impressed with the person you're becoming. You're already great at art, but you're making me want to be a better person. You're making me want to strive, so I must be doing something right. Uh, so I'm gonna keep going.

Speaker A: Yeah, that's amazing. And, yeah, like, the being part of. And seeing the change. Being part of it and also seeing the change, that's like another double mean. That's just exciting, right? Because being. Trying to do it alone. Right? It's. What is the. The quote? Um, you can do it faster alone, but you can go farther together. So, yeah, I mean, you can probably move fast with you by yourself, but how far are you gonna get? But with 500 people behind you, you're probably gonna get way far.

Speaker B: Yeah. I think that's what you learn about leadership, is it's a lot more standing behind and pushing people forward than it is making sure they're following behind you. Um, and that, again, that's what's. That's what I'm learning from this experience. I just wish we all could get a little bit more of that piece of the puzzle. I wish the agencies kind of had a little bit more of that, um, development, the people development. I see a couple that kind of do it right. But the smaller boutique shops just don't have the resources to turn you into, uh, you know, a powerhouse. And then there's a thing where they don't want you to go. You know, they turn you into a monster, and you're gone.

Speaker A: Um, that was always, I gotta churn out or like. Or just stay where you are. Which. Which is unfortunate.

Speaker B: So I got lucky with people being like, you know what? I'll teach you my tricks, or I'll. I'll help you out. You're not. You're not coming from my neck. I'm good. Um, and. And those, like, I wanted to give a shout out to those people, like Jason Lindemann, who runs Lindemann and associates. Um, Jay LaRosa, who has never probably started his own company, but has just been one of the. He was each one of those People were on the side of me at Bemis while they were doing the most amazing work. Um, and, you know, obviously, my uncle, Keith Collins, she's shown me an inspiration. But my mom is not an artist. My mom is a business person. She's in real estate. Um, she's. She's in philanthropy. She also does, uh, tons of community work. Like, her big story was, you know, the night, uh, April 16th. Uh, it's April, so it's 32 years since the riots. And her big thing was everybody's story is like, oh, yeah, I went and stole a TV or I broke a window. Her story is she went and cleaned up the neighborhood. That's what my experience was, and that's the responsibility that I. I was put in place to succeed. I cannot be the person that goes down those roads. And we have a new film called 92, where the whole premise is a father who's gone the wrong way. He's seeing it in his son on the day of the riots, uh, April 29, 1992. And his only. Only thing he can do is try to put that person in the right position to go the right direction. Um, and I felt. I felt like it. That movie was. Was my origin story. So I've had great influences. I've also had the crazy stuff. It's just not the type of thing that I go into for the public.

Speaker A: I've had.

Speaker B: I've had great crazy. Yeah. You could do a dark series. You could do, like a. A whole underbelly series. Yeah. Well, this.

Speaker A: Yeah. I know we're running up of time, but I do want to get this question is in, um, because there was a lot already a lot of nuggets you dropped for. For people, whether they're in now or they're planning on. But if you could either tell your younger self something or give the young people some advice, what piece of advice would you give your younger self or young people today if they're thinking about getting into this industry?

Speaker B: Oh, uh, this is like. That's one of the best questions. Like, I have. I have. Okay, I have my thoughts. Like, what I would tell myself and then what I would tell people. So in. In the beginning, I think I just wanted to learn. And I think if people are open, and it's very rare now because of the way everything's so quick, I want it now. I want it now. Um, I wanted to learn. And if people just take the time to master their craft, whatever that craft is, you start with what you're good at and what you know and you master that before you move on. Um, the second thing I wanted to do is I wanted to belong, right? I wanted to feel like I was needed or wanted. And I think that take that value is in yourself. That takes. That takes time to develop where you feel like you. You're not an imposter. Um, and. And that advice I would give to people that give up too quickly, Don't. Don't stop just because you haven't mastered it or because someone told you that you're not good enough. Those should be motivations to prove them wrong. Like, that's you. You don't. You don't want to belong to the wrong group. Those are the wrong people to belong to. You want to find the people that are your people that can. That can make you strong. Um, and then I wanted to compete would be the other way I looked at it was once I got good enough, and I'm in the room now. You got the monster, the monsters here. So I'm. I'm not just here to participate. I'm here to dominate. I'm here to win. I'm here to take over. Um, and then I would say, because of my journey started at one point and ended up at one point, that I would say, give back now. Don't wait to give back. Because the things that you don't think that you're valuable at or you're as valuable of a person, there's a smaller, younger person looking at you, wanting to be you, and you just have no idea. And that if we all just gave a little bit more, gratitude, gratefulness, please and thank you, we would all be in a better place. Um, but giving back now is my goal. And it's always been something that I kept. It's always been the thing where I'm like, all right, well, I didn't land that poster, but I helped my buddy move. You know, that was enough for me. If you're the guy that people call, you got that one friend that you always call to say hello that checks up on you, and that's me. I'm. I'm the guy that will always, always make sure that I'm checking up. I don't have a dog. I don't have kids. I don't have a fish. Uh, a pet fish. So I give myself to everybody, and I would say that's the advice I would give to people. And then that draws you, whether it's you're doing creative or business, that shapes who you are, that shapes your brand.

Speaker A: Absolutely great advice. I mean, even as uh, being in it for 20 plus years, that's great advice for me, great advice for Leonard, great advice for anybody listening.

Speaker C: Yeah. Uh, we just need to be reminded.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And, and that's the other thing. Talk to people. You know, it can't be gatekeeping. It can't be. I know everything because I don't. I don't know, excuse my language, but I know nothing. My future me is going to look at me and go, dude, I wish you had this. This. So it's humbleness. It's just being humiliated part of your story, you know? Uh, yeah, yeah. You can have the ego, man. We, we prance around, we do the peacock thing. We love, we love having a great time, but, you know, it's all love. It's really comes down to it. You got to love what you're doing and love the people around you.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And on, um, that theme of, like, getting uncomfortable knowing, getting to know people, having conversations, the thing I always tell people ask themselves, what's the worst thing that can happen?

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: Somebody says no. Or like, not right now. Yeah. Then nothing lost. Right. Nothing gained, but nothing.

Speaker B: I, I am those people that speak up in the meeting and say the dumbest thing and have. No, no, they have no clue and have. It didn't hit them at all. And they keep going. And next meeting they're going to say something. Just those people are free. I just, I. I'm not that I'm so analytical of myself, but, yeah, I, I tend to, like, not. I tend to get in my own way. And so, yeah, if, if the advice is, um, be your true self and just enjoy being that person. Like, worst that could happen is you're just you. Right? You're just. Yeah, they're just you.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Right. Um, all right, so to wrap, uh, how can people get a hold of you? Um, what's the best way for, for them? And then whatever you provide, we'll. We'll put into the show notes for folks.

Speaker B: Yeah, my Instagram is the primer creative. Um, that's my, that's my base. I put nothing but Lionsgate stuff up on there because in DNAs, there's always a project that never comes out. I would love to tell everybody what I'm doing, and it just doesn't work work out that way. So I kind of rebranded. And then my website, I'm rebranding that as well. So I think I'm going to push it more towards philanthropy. And, um, you know, it's like, you got to have your portfolio and all that. Good stuff. But I feel like a bunch of pictures of old posters doesn't tell you a story about me. Um, and that this. Like, I'm gonna hopefully get a recording of this and put this on my website. Oh, yes.

Speaker A: Oh, yeah, yeah. Absolutely.

Speaker B: Love to be the person that I'm becoming. Right. So, um, the PrimeCreative.com will be probably another month or two with brand new thoughts and brand new missions. Um, and, Leonard, we've been talking about some stuff, so.

Speaker C: Yeah, well, offline about that NDA stuff later.

Speaker A: Oh, yeah. One thing I want to do before wrapping it up is, you know, you all talked about, um, you have a dinner just to make sure everyone's all right. I'd love for us to get back together and see how we can scale that up, to expand that and make something bigger than ourselves, um, because I think there's a huge need for that. There's a lot of people, to your point, Al, from all walks of life sitting in a dark room right now, like, with nobody, not nobody that looks like them. They don't know what it's like to be outside of that. They don't know how to approach these things. And creating more access and more resources is like, what I. What I want to do.

Speaker B: I'm in. I'm in. I can't do it alone. I cannot do. I can only help as many people.

Speaker C: If you want to go far, we go together.

Speaker A: Right? Right.

Speaker B: All right.

Speaker A: Uh, any last words before we wrap up?

Speaker B: Uh, I just want to say how much I appreciate being involved with the series. I think I saw, um, maybe a couple of, like, meme or cartoons about the series, like little quotables, uh, that you were doing last year, and I was very interested. I think that this is the inspiration, like, just seeing people do different things, it's just amazing for me. So what you guys are doing is great, and I. I wholly support it, and I. I'd love to see, you know, where you guys go from there.

Speaker C: Thank you. Well, we can't do it without you. We can't do without, you know, everyone that's, uh, interested and wants to get involved because we're all just trying to make everything, you know, much better, and it takes chutzpah, uh, to be creative.

Speaker B: So, um, absolutely.

Speaker A: On that note, Regal in the soul reganosoul.com Leonard Samuels under a Zadi creative, and Al Karns, our guest. Thank you from the Primer Creative. Thanks for joining us and we'll see you on the next episode of Creative Chutzpah. Peace.

Speaker C: Thank you for watching Creative Chutzpah. Hope you enjoyed it. I think you did. I saw a few smiles over there. Um. Right. And make sure you turn into Rico Nazal's Creative Leadership With Heart.

Speaker A: Alright?

Speaker C: He's pretty good.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker C: Give him a chance too. All right? And uh, we'll see you next time. And make sure you notch on something. You're too skinny. You're too skinny. Get out there and eat. Alright, Enjoy the rest of your day.

Speaker A: Thanks for listening to this episode of Creative Leadership With Heart. If you enjoyed the show, please like and subscribe. If you're ready to make huge lasting change in your life, then what are you waiting for? M What will your life look like if you took action today? What would it look like if you didn't? If you're serious and you're ready, book your free strategy session today. And let's make your future a, uh, reality.