Stop Getting in Your Own Way: Creative Leadership Lessons from Netflix Alum Graciela Del Toro

Speaker A: I would tell myself to get out of my own way because I think those of us who, um, either are just very analytical of ourselves or can be very, like, internal, um, you start to second guess yourself. Same thing happens with imposter syndrome, um, when you're somewhere. But I think that the biggest thing that you can overcome is the way that you think about yourself and your actions in your own head. So I would tell myself not to worry about, like, I'm, um, prejudging myself or my decisions or my actions or the way that I present something because I want it to be perfect. Or I think that if I mess up, it's the end of the world when really no one is holding me to this, like, perfect standard. I think that we're all being asked to do our best. And if you prepare, you're gonna, you're gonna do the best you can. You've been brought to a team for that reason. Um, I would tell myself to stop being in my head about it and just do it. Get out of the. Get out of my own head and get out of my own, like, internalized doubt and to just try things and if it fails, that's why we step up and do something differently. But it's, it's. There's so much more, um, positive to reap on the other side of that and trying something.

Speaker B: You're listening to Creative Leadership with Heart, a podcast that inspires people to take action and be the leader they were born to be. I'm Coach Rico, and I'm known for coaching and training executives, leaders, leaders, founders, and high performers at Fortune 100 businesses, startups, and more. I'm here to answer your questions about leadership and personal development, while also asking you questions that can unlock your untapped potential. What's up, everyone? Welcome to another episode of Creative Leadership with Heart. Today we have Graciela Del Toro, a good friend of mine. She's currently the VP of Creative operations and resources at Bond. Um, formerly a creative operations lead at Netflix, where we met, and then also formerly of Apple. How are you, Garcia?

Speaker A: I'm good. I'm doing really well.

Speaker B: Thanks again for taking the time, and we will jump right in. Tell us a little bit about yourself and your journey as a creative so far.

Speaker A: Yeah, um, my journey goes back to. Way back to New York. Um, many years ago when I started in advertising, um, I actually went to school for music, so this was not my original plan. Um, and I found myself a little bit more drawn to TV and film, and that industry pulled me in a bit. Um, and then I also found traditional ad agency advertising. So for a while I was uh, going through the process of producing commercials and like understanding that world of advertising. And that was an interesting, fun journey that I went on for a while. Um, I moved out west, um, a few years later and found that there wasn't as much production, um, for commercials like being concepted at bigger agencies out here as there was in New York. Um, things were shifting. There wasn't as much of a, um, ah, an industry for broadcast as there was uh, previously. So um, I leaned a little bit further into my film roots and eventually found marketing for entertainment. Um, so I was at an agency, um, pretty large agency where I kind of cut my teeth on trailers and TV commercials for films and TV M. And that was really fun. It was like marrying two of my interests which were marketing, advertising, um, and film and entertainment. So um, that really became like my niche area that I, that I focused in. I jumped around a few different agencies and initially was producing and thought like okay, well I'll do the same thing. I'm going to be making creative content so I'll be a producer. Um, and then I took a different path. Um, I had a family, um, and I really wanted to make sure that my quality of life and just the balance of what I, what was working for me was going to be, um, what I needed it to be at that time. Um, and I eventually found production management which was the overall oversight of, you know, creative teams, um, overseeing the general schedule of a lot of the different types of productions that we had at different agencies. Um, and somebody took a chance on me doing it without having any management experience. So it was, it was like a fun thing to jump into and just be like, I guess I'll try it. I'll, I'll try managing a creative team. Why not? I usually manage productions and the actual creative work, but now I manage people. Um, so I tried that out and it was a really good fit for me. I enjoyed it thoroughly. Uh, and I found that there were things I discovered in it that I didn't realize I was going to love, which were like um, mentoring and growing people, coaching people through difficult things that were not just creative challenges but um, production and like line work challenges and things that were really different about the, the industry. So I, I found a lot of joy in that and did that for um, several years after, um, eventually finding my way to what at the time was my dream job of working at Netflix. So um, I started thinking bigger picture operations and um, it was a different Scope completely. Um, thinking about the larger huge machine that was, is making creative content in different ways for different formats in different countries, regions, languages. So um, that was just like a world opening up to me that I was so interested in and dove in Headfirst and um, learned so much. Um, and it was its own crazy path. So I did that for a while. Um, after that I bounced around a little bit. Um, I did some consulting. Um, I did some contract work at Apple and eventually thought I may be thinking about going back to the agency side, which I wasn't thinking I would do after being um, on the client side. Um, and it became very clear to me that I just wanted to make sure that I would land somewhere that um, that had the values that I really felt strongly about and um, where I felt like I could actually do some interesting fun work and grow. So um, what I didn't think was possible was actually possible. I looked around and found the right fit for me, um, through some people that I knew. Um, and eventually landed at Bond, where I'm at right now. So that's yeah, my big journey.

Speaker B: Thank you. Yeah. And there's a lot of stuff that I was just taking notes that I want to get into. Um, but I want to get back into a little bit of your origin story first before going forward with some of that stuff. So you said you were a music major, which I didn't know I was initially a music major. Oh yeah, I don't remember that in the interview process.

Speaker A: How do we not know this?

Speaker B: Yeah, how do we not know? Um, but anyways, uh, so what was the dream? So younger Graciela, what was the dream? Going into music? I didn't think it was being, going into ad agencies and entertainment, things like that.

Speaker A: No, I was not dreaming about ad agencies at 18. Um, I initially wanted to produce music. I wanted to be a music producer and be in the studio, um, and working as ah, eventually as an executive in the record industry. Um, and as I was in college for that ah, Napster happened. So the industry kind of imploded on itself a bit. And in New York specifically it was a really tough time to be in the music industry and I just didn't really love what I was seeing and the opportunities were not that great out there. So um, that's how I ended up in doing some. I took some classes in music for film. Um, and that was really interesting to me. Like that art form in itself is like so fascinating to me. I still am like very passionate about soundtracks and music for film. That's Like a side interest of mine. Um, but I think that the film industry just had a lot more to offer at that time. So I went in that direction and did some. I've always done a little bit of like short film and, and um, that type of work on the side. So that was something that I just kind of pulled me in and then I went that direction.

Speaker B: Yeah, I think your dreams are a little bit more loftier than mine. Mine was. I wanted to be a band director. Um, I was drum major and like all that stuff. And so I wanted to go into music to teach and to direct. Um, but yeah, that, that was why it didn't last long. But I did start off initially as a music major. Um, okay, cool. Now I want to pivot back into kind of your career. So you may know this and be able to articulate this, but I know some people who may be listening don't necessarily understand or maybe understand the differences. And I had to coach someone through this earlier because they, they labeled their work as commercial and commercial can mean a lot of things. So. So, um, what is the difference for you between like working at an ad agency and then because you specifically use this language, like entertainment marketing? So what's the difference between like entertainment marketing and ad agency? Because if you. The work can feel and look similar. But tell us a little bit about what it was like to work in in both and what's the difference between the two?

Speaker A: Yeah, it's funny that, um, I didn't think that they were going to be as similar as they are. They are very similar. Um, in my opinion, I think that, um, ultimately you're selling a product, whether that is an actual product that you can buy off a shelf or a brand or a movie or film. Like, it doesn't. It's not something that you are looking at for just pure enjoyment. You are actually going to make a purchase or do something in response to what you saw. So, um, there's that. But I do think that the industries themselves are pretty different. Um, the work that you do at an ad agency is an industry that has been established for a long time and has had a lot of time to mature and become more of like a corporate entity. There's a lot of. There's always been a lot more, um, focus on the direct sales that are involved in, in, in advertising. So you are working directly with, with people who are focused on that very, um, robust industry that is the sales and marketing of products. Um, that world felt, um, much more, um, like there were, there were a lot more um, checks and balances in terms of the corporate side of the finance, um, even approvals, uh, making sure there's a lot of research, um, about anything and everything on these brands and products. Um, entertainment has followed suit somewhat but it has not been like that for as long as advertising has. So there's a lot of it that felt kind of run and gun for a long time. Um, I think my first reaction to working in entertainment marketing, um, the first time was like oh, there's, there's no like account people and there's no, there's ah a, there's a, the producer is also going out and budgeting and making all the client decisions with the client and then they're also of approving all the cuts. Like how is this, how is all this landing on the same person or the same team? And that is just different. It just hasn't been done another way. Um, things have changed a bit with digital marketing and the way that that industry has kind of exploded since when I was working in advert in advertising. So um, things have changed a little bit and evolved with the, with the natural progression of the industry. But um, honestly I think that um, it's similar in a lot of ways in terms of the work you're doing. Um, there's still a client that approves everything. Um, and sometimes you get a client that wants to be highly creative and sometimes you get a client that is very rigid about you have to do it a certain way. Um, so you're always at the mercy of what the type of work is, the client and the team that you're working with. So um, the other thing is, um, I worked at a large agency that was very traditional and then I worked at a smaller kind um, of boutique level agency at the time. And um, that was also very different. It felt like we had the roles of like account folks and creative teams and um, a lot of the same infrastructure that existed on the larger scale, but it was a lot scrappier.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And I got closer to the work and really kind of like began to really see how the nuts and bolts kind of were put together. And I learned a lot more actually on the, on the smaller side. So um, that's two different ways that, that the traditional um, ad agency world affected me in my, in my early career.

Speaker B: Yeah, um, you hit on something there about small versus large. And I want to get into that. Right, because some people listening might be do I go to entertainment marketing, do I go out of ad agency, do I go to a corporate world, do I go to a big agency, small agency. So what are some of the pros and cons and maybe what would you recommend for someone who's thinking about getting into a creative career? Where should they start? Especially when it comes to like this, like promotional stuff. Right. Never mind the uh, long form editors that are trying to make features and stuff like that.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: This is more your you know, everyday editor, producer, motion graphics person. Like what would you recommend for people?

Speaker A: Um, honestly I think that having exposure to both sides is really key. Um, if you don't make it to one side or the other, that's not to say that you can't experience it because on the agency side you're seeing a lot of it by working with teams that at ah, the clients that are sending you to work. So it's not like you don't have um, a vision of like what that could be. But I, I learned a lot on both sides. Um, I will say that I, I like a lot of people. I think the dream for a while was to be somewhere big because you would get to affect more, you would get to work on a lot more of a variety of things and there was a certain amount of autonomy that you could potentially have over the work itself. The perception. Right. Um, I think once you get there there are so many other factors that you don't realize are going to be involved in the journey that is like your experience as a creative or an operations. Creative operations person. There's so many other things that factor into whether you can get that work done that you thought you were going to get or that you thought you were going to do. Um, and there's a lot more, um, there's a lot more personal, um. How do I want to put it? I think it's more like you have to figure out the team dynamics of what you're coming into, um, that you don't think would be an issue. When you think of a big place you're like, oh, you just go there and you do something amazing and there, there's so many other things happening. It'll, you know, there will be somebody to help me with that and it'll be, we'll figure it out. I mean it's not that simple. I wasn't thinking that. But um, I think one of the things that you don't realize on the larger size, whether that's an ad agency or a streamer or a studio, is that there are, there are also factors and caveats that they're up against, um, that affect the type of work that a team can do that a department can do that, a region can do. And so you are given all these other caveats of like, yes, you are going to do this, but these are all the things that you have to work around or with or think about when you're planning all these other things that you're going to work on. So it's not like this like free form, like the world is at your, the world is at your feet kind of situation. It is like there are, there are challenges and um, a lot of unique scenarios that you have to navigate up there too. So, um, on the creative agency side, when I was initially working at agencies, prior to doing that, I had seen some of the challenges and most of the time this was pre Covid. But a lot of the biggest challenges were financial, where it was like, what are we going to do with these tight budgets? How are we going to get this work done? With such like compressed condensed timelines. Um, and those were what you think of as non factors for a large client or a streamer or a studio. Like they have, they can make the rules. Right. So what's so hard?

Speaker B: Yeah, there's something.

Speaker A: Those are two different challenges there.

Speaker B: Yeah, there was something you said earlier about, you know, um, when you're in a smaller agency, you get to learn a lot of things and. Right. And I think that's is something that people kind of take for granted, don't truly understand. Right. To your, to your point. For me, like, my first real job really was at Zappos back in the day. And I was like employee 40. Right. And you look at how big it is now, it's like, like four, 4,000, 5,000 people. But it was like if there was a job to be done, there was nobody there to do it. So like, either it didn't get done or you just figure out how to do it.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: And so it's almost like learning, uh, on the fly. Right. It's like the master class, but it's actually the, it's real life, it's not theoretical. Right. And then I learned a lot of like my foundational, uh, philosophies in that time. So no matter where I went, I remember like, oh, I had to do that. So I know a little bit about what it takes to do that. So like, I can do that here. I can do that here. And to your point, also at some place like Netflix, like at the beginning when I joined, it felt like that. But then, you know, when it got to like 15,000 employees, you now feel like this cog in this Giant machine where it's like, I'm really good at this one thing. And that's all they're asking me to really be, is be really good at this one thing. They're not really asking me to expand. Which for some people that's good too. Right. There's generalists and specialists.

Speaker A: Uh, yeah. Yeah, I think that's an important thing to also understand that the generalist specialist definition is really important to figure out. And if you want to play that part or be in that role at the place you're going to, I guess it's a. And also if it's something that a team can define for you when you come in, like, do you want me just doing this or do I need to be thinking bigger picture and have a hand in a lot of different things? And that's what my area, my purview is.

Speaker B: Yeah, so you brought up some interesting things too because you were in agency life, um, pre Covid and post Covid. And so I never was internal at an agency. I've always been on the client side and I've always built internal studios no matter where I went. So I'd love to hear like what cultures and maybe the industry was like pre Covid and maybe what it is like now and then. There's even pre strike. Post strike. But let's talk about pre Covid. Post Covid, like what things have changed, what things have been the same and what do you see as the future for agencies?

Speaker A: Um, it's kind of funny, when I was agency ah, side prior to Netflix and it was pre Covid, um, there was not really a focus on the role that I found myself doing, which was creative operations. Um, like I said, I came from producing, so I was at agencies doing production management, which sort of touches on some of the aspects of operations, but isn't it feels much more project based and focused on the process of those projects and getting those through the door. Right. Um, so at that time I really had to kind of prove out why it was so important to have operations practices and to have somebody focused on the bigger picture. Not just scheduling, not just thinking about getting projects out the door on time, but also thinking about the efficiency of a team. Um, the general also just well being of the creatives who are working on it and so that they feel like they're not just managed and scheduled, but that they are thriving and they have a chance to work in the right way that makes them perform at their best. So that was something I had to constantly make sure that I was proving Out. And if I had to describe it to other agencies that I wasn't at to just. That were like, what do you do that you're production managing, or what is it? I would have to say, like, well, I'm also thinking about overall creative health of the, of the agency and the creatives that work there. I'm thinking about utilization. I'm thinking about bandwidth. Um, I'm thinking about, you know, the, the talent makeup. What is this? What does this team look like? And where is the industry going? Do we have the right cast of creatives working on this type of work? So it felt like I was, um, in this weird gray area where there weren't a lot of me. Um, and then post Covid, um, I think because the industry took such a halt and then really had a rough time coming back, um, it was tough to catch up to those budgets and to get to that place where people felt like they could operate in the same way. Um, and so there was a focus all of a sudden on efficiency and operations. And not only that, there were a lot more agencies popping up. People wanted to do their own thing. Um, I've seen so many new agencies pop up post Covid that I'm like, wow, that's amazing. I never heard of that place. That's great. They're thriving. Um, and this, obviously, before strikes and all of that, it felt like people could look around and be like, am I happy doing this here? Does this team work well? And that wasn't necessarily a question before. It was just like, who's working on the coolest stuff? I want to work there. Um, I think people now have a focus on, like, at least on the personal creative level. Like, am I fulfilled here? Does this place have the right philosophy when it comes to doing the work, um, and feeling good about it? Um, am I working at a factory? Do I feel like I'm just a cog and I'm just being stuck, stuck into whatever comes my way and I just got to do it? Um, or do I feel like this place really is thinking about the type of work we're getting and casting the right people? Um, or the other side of it being, like, from the management side? Do I feel like people are thinking about efficiency in the right way? Do I think that people are just pushing to get all this work in and not really planning it out? Or do we feel like we could be strategic somewhere and think about things differently and actually plan out an operational model that you can scale in different ways? Um, so that's, that's exciting. To me, when I. When I started looking around, I was like, let's see what agencies are doing now. Like, I thought it was just going to be something that was tough to navigate. And I was actually really surprised at how different people were thinking about the creative team makeup and the operations of those teams. So it was refreshing. Um, and I'm really glad that I was able to find the right place, uh, for me. But I. I'm also, like, I poked around a little bit and, um, on. On the streaming side, I will say it's still, you know, it's tough to navigate that part of it because I think things that are larger move slower, and sometimes it's tough to change the mentality of a large team makeup. Whereas agencies are so. They've had to be so, um, nimble for so long that if we want to try to shake stuff, uh, up, it's a little bit easier to shake up a smaller team than it is like a behemoth machine that's been doing it this way forever.

Speaker B: So, yeah, I mean, I used to use that. This analogy for that same. That exact example is like trying to turn the Titanic, right? Because if you have this huge, huge boat. And why some big companies can't shift their culture fast enough, it's because they have this giant machine, but this, like, little itty bitty rudder, right, Trying to turn them and steer them. And that. That's equivalent to, like, maybe you have a tiger team, maybe you have some sort of committee that's trying to change culture, but when you have, like, 20,000 people trying to listen to five, it doesn't work. But if you're at an agency of, like, say, 150, those five voices are much louder.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: But there was something interesting you mentioned about, like, pre Covid. Post Covid, and then I want to understand the strikes, but pre Covid being like, who does. Who does the coolest stuff post Covid being like, am I aligned or. Or do I feel fulfilled creatively or just in general? Um, in this place, is that. Do you see that mentality sticking? Is that something you still see? And then has it continued after the strikes? Like, what is that sentiment like now in agency world or just creative world in general?

Speaker A: I think that initially, after Covid, people realized that you could shift gears. And there was. I mean, it's been said in a lot of different places, but people thought about the quality of their life and, like, how important it was to be in an office and to be happy with the work that you're doing. And people had to make decisions about whether or not they wanted to stay, um, or go back to a situation where they were, um, either doing the things that they were happy doing or they weren't quite as happy as they thought they were. Um, so I think when we came back from everything, agencies did have to do some reconciling with those new perspectives that people had. Um, part of it being like the in office versus hybrid versus remote. And that's an ongoing conversation in a lot of places still. Um, but I think that there's also a bigger picture question of is this the right way to do the work and are the people doing the work making progress? Are we doing things in a new, interesting way? And are we allowing our creatives to have the opportunity to think differently, to make us do things in a new, interesting, creative way? Because you can't shove things through the same gears and expect something new if you are constantly, constantly grinding those gears and people feel like they're stuck. So it's, it's had to be a shake up of somewhat, um, on both sides. So people also have had to be like, aware that we're going back into, um, an industry that is coming back and getting healthier again. And that means that those deadlines are coming back and that the expectation that you're going to have to jump back into the seat and like, get into some of the crazy work schedules and deadlines sometimes is also happening from time to time. So it's, it's been, um, an adjustment on both sides.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Um, and then I think post strike remains to be seen really. Like this week, um, we were just talking about it being like, uh, something that people are saying across the board is like, survive till 25. So a lot of people are like, we'll talk next year, see if that's that. We'll check and see what things are like next year. Because right now we're not back and we're still figuring it out. Um, I think a lot of things have been because of the strikes. A lot of things got pushed, things got, uh, rescheduled. And so the, from an operations perspective, it's just, it looks crazy like some things were all condensed into Q4. Some things were like, oh, we got to do this right now, let's go. So it's just been unpredictable. So we're kind of waiting for things. And honestly, I don't know if things will ever be fully as predictable as they were. Like a release schedule and regular deadlines. I'm like, is it gone forever? I don't know. We'll see. I hope.

Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, it's interesting, right, because like streaming has been much bigger and there can be fungible deadlines. Right. Or launch dates, um, because there's so much coming out. But I'm, I'm curious, I'm wanting to see too, because the last time there were strikes like this, it was almost like the next 10 years was like the golden era of television. There was such amazing entertainment that came out after the writer strikes, if you remember. Um, and I think that's when a lot of these businesses and agencies and studios and everyone was thriving. I mean, Netflix came out of that with how many original, uh, titles.

Speaker A: Yeah, I remember when I started it was like so many big titles that were like, Netflix's got it all right.

Speaker B: And then now there's more players and there's just like more resources. Even though. Yeah. Like the industry is going through a shake up now. There's, you know, there's been mergers and layoffs and all these things. But last, after the last strike, I'm optimistic. But to your point, we'll maybe it's not we'll thrive in 25, but maybe we'll see in 2025 what that, that is like. Um, I wanted to go back a little bit because you were talking about. Because this is creative leadership with heart. Um, so, you know, you went from leading creative projects to leading creatives. So what were some of the differences and what are the, what are the things you love and what are some of the challenges you face with leading creative teams?

Speaker A: Yeah, I, um, I think the thing that I loved is collaboration. Like, even when I was producing, one of the things I loved about producing is that you get to work with people to make something happen. And that's like, for me, one of my creative tenets that I love working in this industry for, which is I get to work with talented people in collaboration and make something amazing. Um, whether that's making sure that a lot of things happen or one particular really special project. Ultimately it's working with a lot of people and hearing how they see something and working on something together to be a collaborative project. Um, I think that when I first started doing operations or production managing, I thought that I wasn't going to feel good about it because it felt so tangential to the collaboration. I thought, oh, well, the collaborators are going to be the creatives themselves and the producers that are working on the project projects. And I won't get to touch that. Maybe it won't be as fun. Um, but I actually found that in operations, the Collaboration with um, leadership with team leads, um, with managers and with people that were also experiencing team management in the same way that I was, was just as well, was just as, if not more fulfilling for me because I really enjoyed working with people and I liked hearing about what their um, what their ways of working were like for their teams. Um, I thoroughly enjoy working with like creative leadership people who are managing the creatives themselves. Um, I also thoroughly enjoy working with like our finance and HR and other leadership that really gets to have a say so in the shape of a bigger organization. And then we get to hear from each other like oh, I didn't realize that that's how that affects you and how are you dealing with that on your team? Maybe we can borrow some of those philosophies, like we are actually sharing and collaborating on how to run a bigger, bigger um, machine for lack of better terms. It's like we are making something work in different ways and we're the experts in these little pockets of it that are all going to make it work together.

Speaker B: And what are some of the, I would imagine the flip side of that are the challenges right when you come up against that are very siloed or like speak to some of the things that you, the, let's call them opportunities that we see used to call them all the time. Some of the opportunities that you've seen across your career when dealing with some of these same teams and your own teams.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. I think the biggest challenges are like knowing that we have outside factors that we. There are certain things that aren't going to change about this industry. Um, there are certain things that aren't going to change about the clients that we work with that we get pretty projects from. So rather than try to push back or really um, fight it in a way that doesn't feel like you're going to find success. How do we adapt and how do we look internally at ah, the makeup of a team? How do we look up, how do we look at the way that we've set up our ways of working and our workflows to, to make something happen? And if you're at the, if you're at a place that doesn't work, want to do that, or has leadership or leaders that are not very malleable in terms of their ways of thinking or um, or even their like appetite for change, you know, it's like a philosophical issue. Um, I think you have to be um, willing to think about things differently and have a little bit of humility about your expertise and that's that's one of the things that I think became challenging at some places I've worked at in the past where people didn't think that that was going to work because they've seen that before or they've tried that in the past and it's never worked. Um, but this is. I mean, the industry is a living, breathing organism that changes and evolves constantly, and we are changing along with it. And so you can't. There's no, like, destination to getting. Getting it right. Like, there's no, like. And we fixed it and we're never gonna have to change it again. Everything has to evolve at, uh, things change. The industry changes, the work changes, the creative makeup of your team will change. People will come and go. So there will always be something to adjust and to improve and to try to just, like, refine. So I think that's the biggest challenge is getting people to see that there's not a destination for it and there's not going to be a right way. And that's it. There's, uh, a. There's going to be a conversation about it and we're going to pick the direction that this moving thing is going in.

Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, you said it. Well, when it's the. I don't want to even call it old hat, but let's see, we've done that before, right? I mean, I've seen that. I've seen people dig in, in two, two places in my career, and both were proven wrong. One was, you can't sell shoes online. Right. Uh, that was people to say it Essence, Apple's like, they're not going to last very long. You just can't sell shoes online. Wow. And here it is, what, 20 some odd, 25 years later, still selling shoes online. Right. And then when I got to Netflix in 2012, they said, video promotions don't work. Um, well, I mean, you and I both know that. That, that.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: Not true.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: The reason why is because people evolve, Technology evolves, context evolves, like, all those things. Right. So, yeah, maybe in. In 2010, when they first tested video, you know, I don't know if they had gigabit, uh, speeds. Right. I don't know if they have the technology and all the things that we had. Plus, you know, YouTube was only two. Two years old. Like, video online was annoying at best.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Back then. Yeah. So, yeah. To your point, like, you know, if you just sit on your laurels or you just sit on your old way of doing things, it'll be hard and you do need to evolve. Um, I didn't prep you for this one. I just want to ask, so what is, what if you were to say what leadership style you have? What would you say is your leadership style?

Speaker A: Oh, um, I think, and I, I've been asked this before on interviews and it's always like my, it hasn't changed as I've thought about it and over the years, it's. I'm a transparent leader. I think about it as, ah, giving as much context as possible for my team to be able to operate without reliance on wondering whether or not I'm gonna agree to something or approve of something. Um, but I also want to make sure that I am working with a team that I can trust that I can give information and context to and will make wise decisions and have good judgment. So there's a lot of that. That, um, that's, that's one of the reasons I like being a leader is you can cultivate that in a team. You can, you can bring that to your leadership style and grow that within your own team too, so that they can have that open conversation with you, um, about whatever comes their way. So probably the biggest piece of my leadership style that, that I really cling to over the years.

Speaker B: Yeah. Love it. I mean, you can never go wrong with that. Um, I've even been told I'm transparent to a fault, but I don't believe that.

Speaker A: I mean, I catch myself too, where I'm like, hmm, maybe I should have held onto that one for a little bit.

Speaker B: Yeah. But I mean, at least they know. I'd. Better people know than not, right?

Speaker A: Yes. I would rather swing that way than the other way. Yeah.

Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. I'm not a very secretive person. Um, okay, so now thinking about your career and everything you've learned so far, everything you've experienced, what would you tell your younger self or anyone who is thinking about the same career path as you? What advice would you give them?

Speaker A: Um, yeah, I was thinking about this and there was all these little ways that I felt like I could have done something differently or if I would have not gotten hung up on one thing or another, it wouldn't have been such a hold back for me. But I think the bigger, the bigger picture answer to that is I would tell myself to get out of my own way. Because I think those of us who, um, either are just very analytical of ourselves or can be very, like, internal, um, you start to second guess yourself. Same thing happens with imposter syndrome, um, when you're somewhere. But I think that the Biggest thing that you can overcome is the way that you think about yourself and your actions in your own head. So I would tell myself not to worry about, like, I'm, um, prejudging myself or my decisions or my actions or the way that I present something because I want it to be perfect. Or I think that if I mess up, it's the end of the world when really no one is holding me to this, like, perfect standard. I think that we're all being asked to do our best. And if you prepare, you're going to, you're going to do the best you can. You've been brought to a team for that reason. Um, I would tell myself to stop being in my head about it and just do it. Get out of the, get out of my own head and get out of my own, like, internalized doubt and to just try things and if it fails, that's why we step up and do something differently. But it's, it's. There's so much more, um, positive to reap on the other side of that in trying something. There's so much more to learn there. So, um, that's what I would tell my younger self.

Speaker B: That's so good. And it's like you said, it's, it's our only. Mostly it's our own inner narrative. Right. It's a lot of these things that we, that we think that are negative about ourselves. We're just telling ourselves. Nobody's telling us these things. No one's telling. I know you're terrible at that.

Speaker A: Who is that?

Speaker B: Yeah, but it's because, you know, it comes back to like, our doubt our self doubt our imposter syndrome. Like, am m I really as good as people think I am? And when are they going to find out I'm not. That is not as good as they think I am? M. But reality is, you got to where you were not because of luck, but because of merit, talent, like, all the things. Like, we are our culmination of experiences. Like, I mean, that's the way we can define ourselves. And that's good, bad, the ugly, professional, personal. That's who we are. Right? So, like, bring. As long as you bring all that to you, you're gonna try, uh, to your work or to your relationships or whatever, you're gonna do your best. You know, like, you're not gonna half ass your way through it. At least maybe most people won't. Some people might.

Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, if you're sitting in your seat looking at your phone, just like scrolling around, you're not probably doing your best.

Speaker B: Yeah, that's, that's a whole nother thing. That's another podcast that's not this one.

Speaker A: We'll go there another time.

Speaker B: Um, okay, cool. So, uh, I wanted to ask what role? Because this was a huge thing for me. Mentorship and coaching. But what role did mentorship and coaching play for you throughout your journey? And is there anyone that you'd like to name out? You don't have to, but is there anyone you'd want to call out?

Speaker A: Yeah, I, um, a long time ago, um, I worked with some really awesome creative directors that gave me, uh, the lay of the land of the agency world. Um, Toby Barlow was one of the first creative directors who believed in me as a producer and a very junior level producer and was like, you're going to learn, you're going to figure it out. You might do it the wrong way, but you seem to have the right idea. So it was nice to have somebody believe in me, as inexperienced as I was. Um, and then as I, um, grew in my career and I got to a place where I was production managing and then, um, doing operations on the agency side, um, Margaret Hinch, uh, was working as an HR VP at the agency I was at. And she was just amazing to work with. She had, um, an emotional intelligence about her that I was always striving to be at. I think that she became to me the type of leader that I wanted to be one day. And so I, I definitely looked up to her as somebody that, um, I wanted to emulate in my leadership style. Um, and she's still doing amazing work, um, through Thought Lens, her company, um, and the other agencies and companies that she works for too. So she's a big mentor for me and still is. She's a great friend.

Speaker B: So nice.

Speaker A: Shout out to Margaret.

Speaker B: Yeah, shout out Margaret. Um, and one last question is, I'm big on books and things like that, but are there any books? What's one book you would recommend to anyone in the industry thinking about stepping into leadership roles, maybe thinking agency or client side. But what's one book that you would recommend or maybe one that's helped you along the way?

Speaker A: Sure. Knowing that there's probably a lot of people that have read these books and that we've all overlapped on a lot of them, um, I called it out, but, um, Emotional Intelligence is actually a book through, uh, the Harvard Business Review. That was my first introduction into like learning leadership styles. And so that was a good intro one for me. Um, it's a good Way to like, just kind of understand how that style of the way that you approach the work is just as important as the way that you do it. Um, and then I read another really good one that I think made the rounds a couple years ago called Multipliers.

Speaker B: Um, it's a good one by, yeah, that Weisman.

Speaker A: Uh, yes, Liz Wiseman. So I, I read that one and was like, oh, there's so many good nuggets in here. I think I highlighted the whole thing. Yeah.

Speaker B: I mean, it helps that the book is yellow.

Speaker A: Yeah, it's like you can always find it on the shelf.

Speaker B: Yeah. The, ah, thing that was most gold for me in that one was the, ah, Accidental Diminishers. Because I was doing those things left and right. Um.

Speaker A: Oh, yeah, I felt very seen.

Speaker B: Yeah. Right.

Speaker A: Yeah, I'm like, oh, oh, no, I can't believe I did that.

Speaker B: Yeah. Um, but those are great, great recommendations and thank you for that. And if people want to get in touch, what's a good way for people to get in touch with you?

Speaker A: Yeah, I'm, I'm more than happy to, to connect with people on LinkedIn. Um, it's, uh, through, like, my email, which is G. Del Toro. So. Graciela del Toro on LinkedIn, um, or in any other sense, like, if I've worked with people in the past, I'm happy to like, set up time or if there's, um, somebody that wants to reach out to potentially just pick my brain about something. I'm always down for that too. Um, I'm also part of Soapbox, um, which is a female led organization that uplifts, like, women and marginalized genders, um, to just, um, navigate this industry and to find mentorship and leadership skills. Um, so I work with that group a lot. Um, and if there are people who want to join that, um, they're more than welcome to look it up too.

Speaker B: Yeah, I'll link to Soapbox in.

Speaker A: Yeah, shout out to Soapbox too.

Speaker B: Yeah, for sure. Um, um, I may be reaching out to them. I had heard a little bit about them, but I may reach out to you to get a little bit more information. Um, cool. Well, uh, thank you, Graciela, for taking the time to chat with us today. Um, I know you can be busy, so thanks again for taking that time and thank you everyone for listening to another episode of Creative Leadership with Heart. We will see you next time. Thanks again.

Speaker A: Thanks, Rico.

Speaker B: Thanks for listening to this episode of Creative Leadership with Heart. If you enjoyed the show, please like and subscribe if you're ready to make huge, lasting change in your life, then what are you waiting for? What will your life look like if you took action today? What would it look like if you didn't? If you're serious and you're ready, book your free strategy session today, and let's make your future a, uh, reality.