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#488Counsel to Counsel65.8 / 100Get badge
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Counsel to Counsel

Hosted by Stephen Seckler: attorney career, marketing and leadership coach

Listed under Business › Careers, Business › Marketing

Counsel to Counsel is a periodic podcast produced by Stephen Seckler of Seckler Attorney Coaching ( It addresses important career, marketing, and leadership issues facing attorneys.

100 episodes · publishes fortnightly · latest 2026-07-26 · ~32 min/episode

Rank

#488

Substance

65.8

/ 100

Breakdown

Scored 2026-08
Updated monthly

Marketing rank

#67 of 132

Best B2B Marketing Podcasts →

Across the index

#488 of 1077

Substance

Top 45%

outscores 55% of the index

Why it scores where it does

Counsel to Counsel ranks #488 on The B2B Podcast Index with a substance score of 65.8 out of 100, scored across 5 recent episodes. It scores highest on guest caliber and insight density. Matt Miller has genuine, substantial operational experience across multiple legal career stages: big law (counsel), private practice (founder, partner), in-house (general counsel at Groupon and other tech companies), and now recruiting/startup founder. This breadth of direct experience is valuable. He is an actual practitioner and entrepreneur, not a consultant or pundit. However, his current role in recruiting is relatively new (1.5 years), which slightly limits his depth in that domain relative to someone with decades of recruiting experience.

The five-dimension breakdown

Averaged across 5 recently scored episodes, with cited evidence.

Insight Density

13.2 / 20

The episode contains useful career insights, particularly around the mistakes lawyers make (not thinking strategically, moving too late, prestige bias) and the value of relationships. However, much of the conversation relies on general career truisms (have mentors, don't judge early career, network) and spends considerable time on biographical narrative rather than novel frameworks or actionable insights. The recruiting platform (Jholo) is mentioned but not deeply explored substantively.

“you cannot judge your career by the early years”

“the biggest mistake is that lawyers don't think about their career a lot and in part because they're so busy”

Originality

11.8 / 20

While Matt articulates a contrarian position against the 'recovering lawyer' framing, most other insights are well-established in legal career discourse: the importance of networking, the dangers of prestige bias, the value of mentorship, and the need for intentional career planning. The Jholo platform concept (dating app for job search with anonymous profiles) is novel in execution but discussed only briefly. The episode largely recycles conventional wisdom rather than presenting genuinely counterintuitive arguments.

“I don't like the term either recovering lawyer because I think the law is a great career for people”

“being vulnerable with people whose opinions you trust”

Guest Caliber

15.4 / 20

Matt Miller has genuine, substantial operational experience across multiple legal career stages: big law (counsel), private practice (founder, partner), in-house (general counsel at Groupon and other tech companies), and now recruiting/startup founder. This breadth of direct experience is valuable. He is an actual practitioner and entrepreneur, not a consultant or pundit. However, his current role in recruiting is relatively new (1.5 years), which slightly limits his depth in that domain relative to someone with decades of recruiting experience.

“I went to general block...left and went to a smaller firm...had my own firm...merged in with a regional firm...went in house as deputy general counsel...eventually landed a few general counsel jobs”

“I've been doing that now for about a year and a half”

Specificity & Evidence

12.2 / 20

The episode lacks concrete data, metrics, and named examples. While Matt references Groupon and mentions a university focus group (which he won't name), there are almost no specific numbers, timelines, or case studies. He discusses general principles (e.g., 10-30% of partners facing pay cuts) but doesn't provide sources or specific examples. Jholo has 'about a hundred users' but no other metrics. The conversation is mostly abstract and anecdotal rather than evidence-based.

“I read an article about how in law firms, 10 to 30% of partners are facing pay cuts”

“we have about a hundred users right now, which is great for a beta”

Conversational Craft

13.2 / 20

Host Steve Sekler asks reasonably good clarifying questions and allows Matt space to develop his thoughts. However, the conversation is largely softball and affirming rather than challenging. Sekler doesn't push back on Matt's claims, doesn't ask for evidence or specifics, and largely validates his perspectives. There are few genuine follow-ups that probe deeper into contradictions or explore alternative viewpoints. The interview feels more like a warm, collaborative conversation than one with real journalistic rigor.

“that's how I see it. Right. So I'm still. I'm legal adjacent, I guess.”

“And I would just add that the reason why it bothers me is that if your clients are lawyers, why would you tell them, I'm so glad I'm not you”

Standout episodes

  • Episode 178-Becoming a Legal Recruiter: Navigating an Alternative Legal Career with Matt Miller

    2026-06-27

    81
  • Episode 180-Thinking About Starting Your Own Law Firm? Avoid These Ethical Mistakes (With Mike Rossi)

    2026-07-26

    69
  • Episode 175-Making Strategic Lateral Moves: Insights for Law Firm Partners from a Top Legal Recruiter

    2026-05-09

    63

Rank over time

3 periods tracked.

Episodes

5 scored on substance · 63 tracked in total.

  • Episode 180-Thinking About Starting Your Own Law Firm? Avoid These Ethical Mistakes (With Mike Rossi)

    2026-07-26 · 37 min

    69 / 100
  • Episode 178-Becoming a Legal Recruiter: Navigating an Alternative Legal Career with Matt Miller

    2026-06-27 · 36 min

    81 / 100
  • Episode 177-Understanding Executive Functioning and Its Impact on Lawyers' Performance

    2026-06-13 · 32 min

    58 / 100
  • Episode 176-What Makes for a Happy Lawyer or Successful Associate?

    2026-05-27 · 41 min

    58 / 100
  • Episode 175-Making Strategic Lateral Moves: Insights for Law Firm Partners from a Top Legal Recruiter

    2026-05-09 · 38 min

    63 / 100

Frequently asked

What is Counsel to Counsel's substance score?
Counsel to Counsel scores 65.8 out of 100 for substance and ranks #488 on The B2B Podcast Index. That puts it ahead of 55% of the B2B podcasts we rank and #67 of 132 in Marketing. The score reflects insight density, originality, guest caliber, specificity and conversational craft across recent episodes - not downloads.
Is Counsel to Counsel worth listening to?
Yes - Counsel to Counsel outscores 55% of the B2B marketing podcasts and shows we rank on substance, so a marketing operator is likely to come away with something useful.
Who hosts Counsel to Counsel?
Counsel to Counsel is hosted by Stephen Seckler: attorney career, marketing and leadership coach.
How often does Counsel to Counsel publish?
Counsel to Counsel publishes fortnightly, has 100 episodes, released its most recent episode on 2026-07-26.
Which Counsel to Counsel episode should I start with?
Our highest-scoring recent episode is "Episode 178-Becoming a Legal Recruiter: Navigating an Alternative Legal Career with Matt Miller" (81/100) - a good place to start.

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Frequently discusses

Companies, products and tools that come up most across this show's episodes.

YouTube · 2Brain and Mind MethodNational Association for Law PlacementWilsonOren GillinghamLeader RisingHappy Lawyer ProjectThe Happy LawyerThe Successful AssociateAmazonSpotifyApple PodcastsAmLaw 100AmLaw 200Rainmaking podcastMajor Lindsay AfricaACGDealMax

Guests who've appeared

Mike RossiMatt MillerDr. Sarah Al SadiPaul CarvanasScott Love

Topics this show covers

The themes that come up most across this show's episodes.

Practice management softwareABA Opinion 99-414ABA Model Rule 1.1 (competence and technological competence)ABA Rules 7.1-7.3 (lawyer marketing and advertising)IOLTA trust accounts and client fund managementConflict checking softwareClient engagement agreementsCo-counsel associations and referral fee disclosureProbate and trust law competence issuesKhan Kavanaughrelationship buildingGrouponlegal recruitingAscent CouncilJhlowlyprivate practice partnershipin-house counselcareer intentionality

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