Your Business Won’t Grow Beyond Your Nervous System & Leadership Identity - with Serin Silva

Michelle: In this episode, you'll discover why your business won't grow beyond your own nervous system and leadership identity. Welcome to Burnout Proof Leadership, a podcast for midlife women in online business who've hit a revenue ceiling and are ready to stop doing it all. To step into your true leader identity and build a business that can grow without you running everything from the middle. Welcome to Burnout Proof Leadership. This is Michelle and Tracy.

Tracy: And in this episode, you'll discover the cost of over focusing on high performance as a female founder, how your nervous system is running your company, and what your team hungers for from you.

Michelle: Yes. And we had a wonderful interview with Saren Silva.

Tracy: Oh, yeah, it was really lovely.

Michelle: Yeah, you're going to learn a lot. And so let me tell you a little bit about Seren. She is a strategic advisor, certified emotional intelligence coach, and certified semantics for the workplace practitioner whose counsel is grounded in over two decades of Fortune 1000 executive leadership, and not just theory. So, without further ado, here's our interview with Syrin. Welcome, Syrin, to our show. We're so excited to have you here.

Serin Silva: Thank you for having me.

Tracy: Yes.

Michelle: We even got to bump her up a little early, so we're very excited about that. Okay, I'm going to just jump right in here. We have stuff. Several questions we want to ask you today.

Serin Silva: Yeah.

Michelle: Um, one of them is what are some of the hidden patterns you see in high performing female founders that look successful on the outside but are actually putting them at high risk for burnout disconnection or maybe even resentment toward their business?

Serin Silva: Um, I think people are, are in survival mode and they may or may not be aware of the fact that they're in survival mode, um, because they're high functioning. And so they correlate survival mode to high performance. Yeah. But there's a lack of self awareness about, um, there might be white knuckling kind of through that every day, uh, which can be very taxing on everything, you know, uh, from the physical body cortisol stress. Um, I think another one is that I read this recently with EOS. Um, 81% of founders feel like they have to hide their stress. So they're not really dealing with the stress. If they are aware of it, they're kind of burying it. And they think stress is like, I'm supposed to be this stressed all the

Michelle: time becomes a norm for them, so they can't even tell the difference. Wow.

Serin Silva: Yes.

Tracy: What, what does survival mode look like?

Serin Silva: That's a great question. Um, survival mode is holding high degree of stress. Um, not allowing decisions to really land in m the body. Blocking yourself from any feeling, whether it be good, bad or otherwise, um, thinking about it from a purely sort of a brain standpoint. It's that amygdala that's on active, which doesn't allow for your full wisdom and thinking to come forward. Um, we're all. I believe most of us are pretty intelligent, most of us are pretty creative. And I think when we get into a locked state, um, especially if we're unaware of it, we're unintentionally closing off, uh, the inner wisdom that we have to solve whatever's coming up or to look at a new way or a new way of reframing something or a new. A new, um, tool that we could be using.

Tracy: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think for me, I would say probably that's shown up and maybe you can, you know, see if this resonates or whatever. But I just feel like when you get into that swirling or that sense of overwhelm, like, you just can't get yourself to do the thing, you know, like to make the decision or take the action, or you just, you just kind of have that sense. Sense of. Of overwhelm. And, uh, I don't know if there's another word to describe it, but does that make sense? Like, is that kind of what, uh, people would. I'm trying to, for the listeners is like. Oh, my gosh. Right. That I do that.

Serin Silva: I would say frozen.

Tracy: Yeah. Frozen.

Serin Silva: When you were speaking. Frozen.

Tracy: Yeah.

Serin Silva: You get in this frozen sort of lock state. And I think what you were also saying, at least that's what I was interpreting, was procrastination can happen.

Michelle: Yeah.

Tracy: Yeah.

Serin Silva: Because you're putting things off. Putting things off because you haven't allowed yourself to fully show up. Yeah. For yourself and like, address what's coming up.

Tracy: Right.

Serin Silva: You're just white knuckling through. And I'm not here to say it's not stressful out there for female leaders, but I, um, am here to say that there's a. There are other ways.

Michelle: Yes.

Serin Silva: To address it.

Tracy: Yeah. Well, it's, it's really critical that you do that. You learn how to manage that. Uh, because ultimately that'll lead to burnout. Right. So, um, so you, you do have to do that. So maybe you could share with our listeners, um, you know, how you found what you found helps female founders so shift from that, you know, high performance identity to something that's a little bit more holistic, that supports them more, um, and more. And what makes that shift so, you know, why does that seem to be so difficult emotionally to make those kinds of shifts?

Serin Silva: Those are a lot of really strong questions, I think, you know, if I was going to take it apart, you know, why is it hard? Um, I think the pressures of modern business and keeping up competitively and being agile and dealing with all the change is the first piece. The second is the responsibility for the employees. A lot of our female founders, and I'm sure male founders as well, you know, they feel responsible, they want to make sure they can, they can take care of those paychecks and get those benefits, those employees that they really care about. Um, I also think some of it's unique to women in that, um, and it has gotten better. But, um, we're still seen as the softer, gentler sex. And there's nothing really wrong with that per se. But at least I'll speak for my generation. I was taught that you just don't show weakness if you're in a room with men. You don't show weakness because they're already kind of looking to you to be like, okay, well of course she's going to get emotional about it because she's a woman or she has kids or whatever it is. And so we're kind of double white knuckling in a way.

Tracy: Mhm.

Serin Silva: Because we're fighting that wave of uh, the sort of the gender stereotype. And is this true of every single company, every single man? No, it's not. But at least for, for my generation, it was like, just don't. You don't show weakness. And um, I, I may have mentioned this to you, but, um, I didn't let people know I had a child for the first 10 years of my daughter's life because, uh, I mean, people close to me that, that knew me were, who knew I had a daughter, but it was, it was a weakness.

Tracy: Mhm.

Serin Silva: When I went to tell my boss that I was pregnant, he said jokingly, why'd you go and do a thing like that? That was his response when I told him I was pregnant. And so I learned, yeah, in that moment that that was a deficit. And so whether you have children or don't have children, as a female leader, that's, that's the stigma or the old. I think it's gotten a lot better. And I'm so grateful for that, for the people behind me.

Tracy: Mhm.

Serin Silva: Where they can do a conference call from the car if they're picking their child up. Uh, but I didn't come with that environment. But what's stayed Is the. Don't let him see you sweat.

Tracy: Yeah.

Michelle: Yes.

Serin Silva: Right.

Tracy: Yeah. Well. And I think as a female founder, you feel like you need to put on that kind of air as well. Like I've got everything under control, everything's calm. Like you don't want that. You don't want anybody that's working with you, whether it's a contractor or an employee, to see that you have concerns or questions about things that you're doing. And so you want to put on that face that everything's fine. You don't want to show any weakness. You feel like you got to be the strong one. Um, so I think that probably is also a factor for the female founders who's running the business and um, probably has, you know, some of those things that they are managing as well.

Serin Silva: Right. I call it corporate armor.

Michelle: Oh.

Serin Silva: You know. Yeah. M. So we're armoring up. Yeah. To compete.

Tracy: Mhm.

Serin Silva: Succeed. Um, and what we were talking about earlier about survival mode, if you think about that armor, I mean, how is anything going to get through that? And no wonder you're white knuckling it through. And no wonder you're, you're pushing and pushing.

Tracy: Mhm.

Serin Silva: You're armored up.

Tracy: Yeah.

Serin Silva: So how do you get in touch with. Do I actually really like what I'm doing? Is this the right strategy? Is this the right decision? And do they have time to even think, uh, about that?

Michelle: Yeah. And I think the higher you go in the corporation, the more armor you need. At least that's been my experience.

Serin Silva: Same.

Tracy: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, and then, you know, as a female founder, you're kind of armoring yourself against failure. Right. Or judgment, um, by others too. Right. That you're not capable or that the business isn't as successful as it could be. You know, so you kind of armor up around that. So what helps with shifting that? Like what helps us with letting go of that identity? That I gotta have this armor. I gotta be strong, I gotta be resilient. Into something that is more holistic so that they can tap into, you know, their wisdom and feel these emotions and process them. Um, what are things that help?

Serin Silva: Yeah, what I. Well, I'm really big into something I call the three wisdoms, which is the marriage between intuition, your intellect, everything you know, and your physical body, your soma. Um, I'm sure everyone's read stories, uh, about stress and how stress affects the body. This is, this is so critical and for our longevity as female leaders doing all the things we want to do and pushing for success and pushing to Support our teams and families and companies. You know, we have to learn how to allow these other parts of ourselves to be tended to. Um, Western culture. I'm not here to say it's good or bad, but what I am here to say is that, um, we praise the brain over everything. If m. I think enough, I think enough, I'll get to the answer. And sometimes the answer lies in other places, and that's okay. And let's open those apertures. Right. Your body, if you actually stop and listen to it, might have a lot to tell you. And you know, I don't want to dwell on this, but I've had a number of colleagues who have become critically ill from the load as female founders and leaders. You know, seen cancer. I've seen, I've seen a number of things. And so what I want to strike from our language in business is that this is like wellness or light or kind of silly. It's not silly.

Tracy: Mhm.

Serin Silva: Your body is a complex system made more than just your brain. I think most of us run around, we're operating with just this. Like we're a head on a stick. But there are other parts, right?

Michelle: Yes.

Serin Silva: Like that's what matters, is your brain matters everything. Yes, your brain is very important. It helped you do so many things. But your body might be telling you that's not a great decision. Um, and so when I work with clients, I try to work on somatic practices. Breath work. You know, you can take a minute to breathe and to settle.

Tracy: Yeah.

Serin Silva: Uh, I've had, I've had, I think I've told the story before, but I've had a couple clients who once argued with me about, I don't have time. And I'm like, you don't have 60 seconds. Like when you're walking from the elevator down the hall to the pitch to just breathe and just feel your feet. Well, you know, I'm not really thinking about that. Yeah, because you're all compressed here. But what if you were fully embodied? What does that open up for you? Um, in terms of executive presence, in terms of making sure your message is heard or you're persuading the people you need. Why wouldn't you? Right.

Michelle: Yeah.

Serin Silva: Because you think it's yoga. It's not yoga.

Michelle: Yeah.

Serin Silva: You're still at the meeting, but you're just doing something consciously. Mhm.

Michelle: Yeah.

Tracy: Mhm.

Serin Silva: Yeah.

Michelle: Bringing some intention into that.

Serin Silva: Yeah, exactly.

Tracy: Such a great point. And I know for myself, I really leaned into this when I was going through my dis. When I was getting my Dissertation. I was going through the dissertation process, the most stressful time ever. And I knew that if I was going to get through it, like I was in the final stages, that I had to pay attention to my body. Right. And my mind. Right. And my heart. Like, I knew I needed to have alignment, uh, coherence and all of that. And I just took extra steps and I found it made such a difference. Just, you know, just taking care of my body, moving every day, eating better, you know, help stimulate my brain, and then just paying attention to what I was feeling. My heart, those kinds of things, my emotions and regulating that, uh, all just helped me get through that like it was significant. So then I've kept those practices up because I have seen the results of that. It's really important.

Serin Silva: That's so key. And I wish every woman who's listening to this podcast would just try that.

Tracy: Mhm.

Serin Silva: Because you're treating yourself like a whole person.

Tracy: Mhm.

Serin Silva: And you're tending to all the parts because, you know, the net effect impacts, uh, how you show up. Yeah, yeah, right, yeah. And what you're able to deliver in that very important dissertation. Mhm.

Tracy: Yeah.

Michelle: Made a big difference.

Tracy: That's huge.

Michelle: Well, one of the things that Tracy and I do is we work on ourselves all the time, as she said, and, um, our clients on inner work, we really believe it starts on the inside and then goes outside. And that, you know, what female founders really have to do to create business and life that they desire. So can you please tell our listeners how their nervous system can actually be running them and their company? And what does that really look like in reality?

Serin Silva: Um, shorthand. What I would say is your employees can look at your shoulders and know how you're doing.

Tracy: My shoulders are hurting. Her shoulders have been bothering her the last two days. I must be carrying something there.

Serin Silva: You know, you can, you can tell them all you want about how great things are, but, uh, people, people are, we're sensing beings. It kind of goes back to the earlier point, which is you're more than a brain on a stick. Just because you tell people everything's great, they can look at you and they can tell if it's not great. I remember, you know, being on the floor in a corporation and the CEO going by and people being like, oh, he is in a bad place today. And I'm like, well, what did he say? Oh, I can just tell. It's like, well, that's what we're talking about because we talk about your nervous system. You know, I, I do a talk on nervous system is running your company. It's like, it's about your state. People are sensing and they can tell your state, what state you're in, right?

Tracy: Mhm.

Serin Silva: Um, your stress level that we were talking about at the top of of our podcast here is it can tell, you know, about your proof. Your, your stress impacts your prefrontal cortex, which is your judgment. So you might even think, oh yeah, they think I'm fine. But you're stressed, you're in lock state. So your judgment is off when you're in that stress lock state. Um, and it amplifies you when your amygdala feels like it's in a hijack. It's amplified, it's in threat response. Well, that's all gonna, that's all correlated to your nervous system. Right. And how you show up in a room so people are picking up on it, you know, and there are, there are three ways to look at it very simplistically. There's a regulated state where you're like, I'm fine, I'm in touch. I don't feel stressed. You know, you're very clear and present in those moments. Right. You're so with like right now, I feel not stressed with both of you. Um, I feel clear and I feel present. I feel like you could ask me anything and I'd be fine. I might not know the answer and that's fine too. But when I'm in a activated state, I could be tunnel vision. M. I could be hanging on the words that Michelle and Tracy are saying and I could be like, uh, yeah, I really, I really want to get this right. I really want to get this right. Right. And I'm not here to tell people, oh, that's bad. And stay out of that. That's going to happen. Right. We're going to be activated and we're going to be not activated. And then there's the frozen that we talked about earlier, which is the shutdown state. And that's where you're checked out.

Tracy: Mhm.

Serin Silva: Yeah. So when we talk about how to best support female leaders, we really want to help support them with that regulation piece where they don't feel activated and they don't feel frozen. And then, um, there are tons of practices that I would love for people to have their own custom toolbox of what works for them.

Tracy: Mhm.

Serin Silva: For me, what works is like to feel my feet on the floor. I have to have a little breath, introduce that breath into the system. Um, and just allow, like before I start a meeting, I'll Say, let's arrive, let's give ourselves a couple minutes to arrive and people be like, well, why don't we just get started? It's like, you might be ready to start, like the five other people in the room might not. Right. So let's give people that transition time. Um, we're wired kind of to work like machines right now. And um, for some of us, our bodies are very unhappy about that.

Tracy: I love that. Wired to work like machines. That's so true. Yeah, that's so true. And you know what, we were doing this and didn't even know it. In our previous work when we worked with, in organizations and they would have what we called a council structure. So they would bring members of the department together, all different levels of roles and responsibilities. And we always started with a check in. And a lot of times it was just to get people to settle in, to let go of what they were, what had happened before they came into the room so they could be fully present. We didn't even know what we were doing. I mean, we were intentional, but we didn't connect it to this kind of a thing. Right?

Serin Silva: Yeah, yeah. Uh, but I love ears, right?

Michelle: Absolutely.

Tracy: And we still do it, we still

Michelle: do that with our team today. It just makes such a difference.

Serin Silva: Awesome.

Tracy: Yeah. Just helps you get present.

Serin Silva: When I'm doing, when I'm doing a workshop, I'll sometimes I'll have people, they don't always like this, I'll be honest. But I'll say, can you do a movement or say a word that that is how when you're checking in. Mhm. And if we're doing like a, a retreat or a workshop, like we're going to be together in a container for a couple days, I'll have them do a move and everyone's got to do move back. So people might be like, go down. Then the room will go like this. And it's just to acknowledge the humanity in the room.

Michelle: Yes.

Serin Silva: Yeah. And to be like, it's okay that we're not always 120%. You can't be. Yeah, right. Doesn't mean your work stinks. It doesn't mean you're terrible at your job. It just means you're a human being, you need a little tending. I love when a facilitator will say during the course of the session, if you feel like you need to go to the bathroom or if you need to get yourself a drink or something to eat or answer that phone call, go do it. I'm like, that's so freeing. For people.

Tracy: Mhm.

Serin Silva: Otherwise they feel like, I gotta just sit here in this, you know, you might need to get up.

Tracy: Yeah. And they're not really present if they're thinking, I gotta go, or I got something hanging over my head, or. I love what you said too, about senses. And I don't know where I read this, but over the last couple days that we actually may have 34 more senses that we're not even aware of that are a part of us. And I think it was related to how everything is. We're in this time and everything is moving faster and it's not, you know, we have AI and all this technology and it really is to wake us up to be. To step more into our humanness and the being and that we actually have more senses than we. Than the five that we've been aware of or the six. And I was like, fascinated by that. I thought, ooh, what, what does that mean? Right?

Serin Silva: My nerd, my. My nerd brain just went, I gotta go look that up. I have to.

Tracy: Yeah, yeah. Well, I know, I know what it was. It's all this, all of these astrology things I'm getting recently. And it's about how all the planets are moving right into different locations and how that is stimulating things in our world. And that's a part of it. And it's not happening to us. It's happening so that we will have a deeper human experience based on all these senses that we have to really step into that part of ourselves rather than the physical machine kind of. Right. Doing, doing, doing thing. It's really to help us be more of the beings that we are. And I was like, that's really exciting.

Serin Silva: I love that. That's definitely moving us past Head on a stick.

Tracy: Yeah. Yeah. Right, right.

Michelle: Oh.

Tracy: Ah, yeah. It's crazy. So, uh, speaking of technology, we're in this era, this time of high tech, what can you share about what you're seeing today that teams are really most hungry for from their, from the leaders or founders and maybe some examples.

Serin Silva: Um, yeah, I mean, I think the first thing which people always, I will say kind of go, okay is clarity. I think the more clear you can be with your employees, the better. Why? Because things are changing very rapidly. One of my clients, um, recently doubled, uh, in size overnight because, uh, they got a second client that was as big as the first and now a third is coming. And I'm seeing things not split at the seams, but I'm seeing people very stressed because they can't onboard the people fast. Enough to be able to service the business. And so what being clear there means is being specific about what you need them to do and what good looks like. Not just put a status report together for me, but what are you actually going for? Right, yeah. That you're doing them a kindness every single time you do that. And you're regulating their nervous system. Um, and you're probably regulating your own bigger stop because you're stopping to think about what's really called for. Right? Yeah. Um, and so in times of rapid stress, I think clarity is definitely a friend. And a lot of times when I'm talking to founders, they're frustrated because the employees are not getting it or they're not doing it or why do I have to do the work and blah, blah, blah. What I want to say is take a beat, be clear, think through to the end. A lot of times I feel like when I'm coaching I'm like, what's the desired outcome? Whether like revenue? And I'm like, yes, and how are we. What is that? What is good? Look like they're not the number, but how does that correlate to the team and what you need to see from the team? Right. Like break it down. You know, because you're a founder leader, but you got to carry that message down. So instead of saying the employee's the problem, why don't you? Because sometimes they are. But more often than not, sometimes it's the communication that they're getting. And it's always funny to me when they're like, we got to get them all coaching. And I'm like, yes, and you also need coaching. And sometimes they're like, you think I need coaching? And I'm like, wow, you could use a little bit of coach, you know. And it always cracks me up. I'm like, because if you coach them and then they'll do the right thing. And I said yes, but it's also like the direction you're giving. So I think clarity is one thing. Um, I think how they deal with AI is another. Um, it's this tool that some people fear that some people are excited about. People are confused, like, can I really use this at work? And we don't really have language for that. And so what I'm seeing is people using AI to generate entire work product and then sending it without even looking at it. Um, or being so afraid to use. They don't use it at all.

Tracy: Mhm.

Serin Silva: Because they're worried it's going to replace them. So they then, um, Knowledge hoard. Yeah. Mhm.

Tracy: Yeah.

Serin Silva: So we all need to do a good, a good job, myself included, of helping to break that down. So people can use the tools.

Tracy: Mhm. Um.

Serin Silva: But not replace the thinking that goes with the tool.

Tracy: Yeah, yeah, that's a, that's a big polarity the, the human intelligence and the artificial intelligence. And how do we, how do we leverage that individually and collectively, um, in our businesses?

Michelle: And I think what we find too is just creating that space to have dialogue with your team, to really learn from each other and appreciate that, you know, everyone has different experiences. Like if we just want to stick with AI as an example. And it doesn't have to all come from you as the female founder of what has to be done and everything. But if you can really just create that container where people feel safe. Safe and like, what do you know about it? How do you use it, what do you know about it? And then help it inform all of you how it's going to really help with uh, each of you individually and then as a team.

Serin Silva: Absolutely. And what I really like about what you just said, there's two things. One, we have to have space for more dialogue.

Michelle: Yes.

Serin Silva: I think we've gotten so um, efficient that it's almost been to our detriment. And so um, that context and meaning making and direction and clarity has now become the equivalent of a post it or a G chat message or a slack message is like figure it out. And then people are freaked out. They don't want to say they're not freaked out. So how do we create those spaces and make sure that the context is shared? And also, you know, they're so productive. But people I think need to hear more versus less from the leaders.

Tracy: Mhm. Well, I think connection and community is really important to feel like you're a part of something. And I think for female founders, some of them, you know, in the spaces we work in where they have an online business and everything's virtual, you know, uh, people find it challenging to create team and community when you're not together, but you can do it. You just have to be very intentional about it. And people want to be connected to something that's bigger than themselves. They want to make a contribution. So I think when you can help them see the vision of the company, the contribution that they're making, it helps them to take ownership of what they're doing. Right. And to show up in their um, full potential. It helps you. Right. To lean into that potential that they have as well. So I think that's another key element um, leveraging. Right. The individual and the team, um, collectively to move things forward.

Serin Silva: I think it also helps with retention.

Michelle: Oh, yes.

Tracy: Mhm.

Serin Silva: People need to know, like, the bricks that are behind you. They need to know how their brick fits into the wall.

Michelle: Yeah. Yeah.

Serin Silva: And I was coaching last week and I said, you guys need to. They're another company's in a transition. I said, you need to have more staff meetings. Are like, why? And I said, because. And I'm coaching the employees. I'm like, because they're not getting. They're not hearing enough from you. And they're not hearing about how their work contributes to the overall.

Michelle: Yeah.

Serin Silva: That they're like, well, we barely have any time. I'm like, do 15 minutes. Yeah. Right.

Michelle: Yeah.

Serin Silva: Yeah. Let's do a really tight agenda. We've got maybe there's two updates and then a little Q and A. And then, you know, and something big had happened on the business that was positive. I'm like, not everybody knows that happened. Yeah, let's get that out and let's tell them your work is why this happened.

Michelle: Yeah. Celebrating the win.

Serin Silva: And they're like, okay, we got a rara. I said, yep, we got a rara. We got a vision and we got a rara. Because otherwise every day can just feel like the next. And people can feel disconnected and isolated.

Tracy: Yeah. I love to. I drive across the country twice a year and there's lots of truckers, like. Like lots of trucks. Right. But on the back of this one truck, it said, our most valuable asset. And it had an arrow going all the way to the cab of the truck, which was the driver of the truck. And I thought, that is such a great thing to put out there. Right. Uh, I can just imagine getting into that truck every day. He knows. Or she knows. They're a valuable asset. The most valuable asset of that company. I thought that was really cool.

Serin Silva: I love that. It just says, I value you as a human being.

Tracy: Yeah.

Serin Silva: And it recognizes that we're human beings. Right. And that we matter and people need that.

Tracy: Yeah.

Serin Silva: We spend so much of our lives at work.

Tracy: Mhm. I thought it was awesome.

Serin Silva: Y. That is awesome.

Michelle: That is. Well, this has been fabulous. You have given us such great insight. Now it's time to shift to our mystery questions.

Serin Silva: Okay.

Michelle: Okay.

Tracy: Uh, and you're. You're good with anything we are asking, right?

Serin Silva: My nervous system. My nervous system is regulated. And you've built a container where I feel safe.

Tracy: Oh, good.

Serin Silva: And I feel good.

Tracy: You're meant to.

Serin Silva: Because I have clarity. Because I have clarity because you set that up. It's all true. It is all true.

Tracy: I love it.

Serin Silva: Yeah.

Michelle: All right, I'm going to ask you the first one and Tracy's going to ask you the second one. So. So here's the first one. If your nervous system could send you a text message during a stressful moment, what would it probably say?

Serin Silva: Go walk in the grass.

Michelle: M goes back to being grounded and having your feet in the ground. I love it.

Tracy: Connect to Mother Earth.

Serin Silva: Mhm.

Tracy: Love it.

Serin Silva: She's so smart.

Tracy: She is. All right, question number two.

Serin Silva: Yes.

Tracy: What's a completely non business activity that helps you reconnect to yourself?

Serin Silva: Stained glass making.

Tracy: Oh, cool.

Serin Silva: Yeah, I make stained glass. Um, and I love it. And sometimes when I get stressed at work, if I have a gap, even if it's an hour gap, I'll go down to my studio in the, in our basement and I'll just, I'll say to my husband, it's not the most elegant phrase, but I'll be like, I gotta cut. And he'll be like, that never sounds good. I'm like, I know, but it feels good when I get with my glass and I can like, like shape a piece of glass. And um, yeah, that's. I find that. And I also find that tactically using my hands feels really good after I've been on a bank of calls, like going back to kind of care for the whole person.

Michelle: Yeah.

Serin Silva: Um, it brings me into balance. Yeah.

Tracy: Yeah. The same is true for me too. I like to just do mindless things with my hands and then it just kind of helps me ease, let go of everything, release everything and get really present and mindful. And I love that. My dad used to cut glass, was a stained glass person too. Cool. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, uh, what a wonderful conversation you've given so many, just wonderful tidbits and just information about how we can really be more connected to ourselves and see ourselves in a more holistic way as founders, female founders. And just really appreciate your wisdom. Thank you so much for being here and sharing that with us today.

Michelle: Yeah, for sure.

Serin Silva: It's been, it's been a pleasure and a delight.

Tracy: Yeah. Ah. And where can people find you?

Serin Silva: Ah, seren silva.com.

Tracy: okay.

Serin Silva: Uh, or they can find me on LinkedIn. I'm offering a free 15 minute business read. Um, if anybody would like me to just. And it's a no pressure thing because I'm not about pressure and stress and pushing. I'm the opposite of that. And so, yeah, it's just that people want to kind of look under the hood and they want to understand their business through a different lens.

Tracy: That's great. Awesome. We'll put a link in the. In the show notes. And is there anything else that you'd like to say before we close, other

Serin Silva: than I really appreciate being here and it's nice to be with like minded people who understand that, uh, being successful as a leader is more than about just pushing blindly.

Tracy: Yeah.

Serin Silva: Yeah.

Tracy: Ah, yeah. What a great ending message.

Michelle: Thank you so much.

Tracy: Our audience, thank you for being here. We loved having you. And thank you to our audience. We, we just really appreciate, are so grateful for the time you spend with us every week. So until next time, be well and stay burnout.

Serin Silva: Sa.