The Inner Shift: Advita Patel on Leading with True Confidence

Speaker A: If you truly believe that you are not able to shift or change or add value in the organization that you are in, then remember, uh, we're not trees, we're not rooted. We can pick ourselves up and exit. And I'm not saying quit tomorrow because not everyone has the privilege to do that, but plan your exit strategy and recognise and understand where your talents will be recognized. One of my most favorite quotes is, go where you're celebrated, not where you're tolerated.

Speaker B: Hello and uh, welcome to a brand new Aspire to Inspire podcast episode. My name is Brian Tomlinson and I am the head of content@ uh, staffbase. Today's guest is someone who embodies what it means to be a change maker. Advita Patel is the current president of the Chartered Institute of Public Relations, a celebrated confidence coach, and a positive disruptor reshaping the way we think about workplace culture. As the founder of Comms Rebel and co founder of a leader like me and the Asian Comms Network, Advita has made it her mission to empower communicators and leaders to build inclusive, confident and thriving teams. She's also the co author of Building a Culture of Inclusivity, a guidebook that's become essential reading for modern comms professionals. Her career spans leadership coaching, dei, strategy change, communication and employee experience. But at the heart of it all, helping people find their voice and use it with confidence. So in this episode we explore how ADVITA is using communication as a vehicle for transformation and how you can do the same in your organization to elevate employee well being. Advita, welcome to the show.

Speaker A: Thank you, Brian. Thank you so much for inviting me.

Speaker B: It's a pleasure. We've actually been. Been waiting for quite a while to try to catch you here. So more than happy, I mean, so let's, let's jump right in. Um, I think one of your big topics that you talk about a lot is confidence, right? You describe yourself as a confidence coach, a positive disruptor, which I love. I just love that, that term. Um, and I know that you're writing now your second book. I think it's Decoding Confidence.

Speaker A: Yeah, Decoding Confidence. The seven habits of Confident Leaders.

Speaker B: I love it. Um, so maybe let's start with that. I mean, what does confidence mean to you?

Speaker A: Such a, such a great question to start with. Ah, so if I can go back in time in how I got to this space is I've always, um, been curious about confidence and imposter syndrome because they're often the words that comms folks use to describe how they are feeling in certain situations. So friends and colleagues and partners that I have worked with will often say that, oh, I feel like a bit like an imposter, or my confidence has been knocked here, or my self esteem is at where it needs to be. Um, and if you think about the work that we do in communications, especially internal communication, everyone's an expert, right? And I'm sure some of our listeners can relate with this, that uh, when you work in an organization and you're trying to persuade, encourage, communicate, there's always somebody somewhere that's got a better opinion than you or has stronger views than you, and you're spending a lot of your time negotiating and influencing and trying to demonstrate your value, which can knock your confidence, uh, and also make you believe that you're not good at what you're doing when you come back with lots of criticism. And I started to observe and witness behaviors and noticed that those leaders who led with confidence, who believed in their value, tended to have better results because of that. And confidence isn't about who is the loudest in the room or who shouts the loudest or who wants to be the center of attention all of the time. In fact, in my research, those people are often the ones who are masking their insecurities, uh, because they're trying to distract from their, their worries, uh, or their kind of, uh, challenges that they are facing. Confidence is about having that quiet assurance that regardless of what happens to you, you'll be able to manage it well and you'll be able to deal with adversity and you still value yourself and you won't knock yourself down, uh, despite what's happening around you. And I talk about it so passionately because I experienced a huge confidence crash in 2018 where I didn't want to work in communications anymore because I'd spent, I believe that I spent so much of my, you know, 15 years prior to that building and listening to other people telling me what makes a great communicator and following their instructions, yet not succeeding as quickly as I would have wanted to in certain roles, um, and positions. And after a specific incident where my confidence was knocked, I decided that I was going to quit comms, uh, and go and do something else. And it was on a journey to work. I was driving, uh, in my car and I was speaking to a good friend of mine and I was complaining to her about how unfair life was basically, uh, and how I was fed up with this profession and how I don't see people like me. And there's no way Someone like me can succeed. Um, so I was going to just go and do something else. Uh, and she said to me, you know, and she basically said, you're in control, you know, of your destiny. You get to choose how you want to be seen and shown. What are you going to do about it? How are you going to take control of what's going on around you without allowing other people to tell you what you should and shouldn't do or make you believe that you're not good enough? And that was a bit of a light bulb moment for me. Uh, so I remember parking my car and sitting in my car for about half an hour, just reflecting on everything that I'd said to her and my career today and decided that I was going to invest some time and energy into finding out why confidence is such a barrier for so many of us and what can we do about it. And that's where my kind of confidence journey started. And I went in deep with confidence imposter syndrome, self esteem, uh, and started to do research in this space, which is why I became a confident coach to help other professionals find their value and not have to seek validation and permission to do great things.

Speaker B: I really love that because it reminds me we've spoken about imposter syndrome on the podcast before. Right. Because we know it's such a topic for leaders. And I think in our last episode with Charlotte Otter, like, she has a great new book, um, we need new leaders. And it really, it starts off with exactly that around, you know, not. We don't need to be like these loud leaders that, you know, you typically identify as the leader. Right. You know, these, uh, loud, brash, type A personalities. Right. But in that case, what does confidence look like in practice today for leaders and communicators? Because I think the leadership sphere is changing a little bit. Right. Compared to the way it was in the past. Where do you see leveraging that confidence? Um, being going forward.

Speaker A: Yeah. Great question again. What I do want to say that if, you know, there is. There's nothing wrong with being, you know, extroverted and loud and having opinions and being able to debate and discuss and showing up as your true, genuine self. Right. Where, where the challenge start. Because what I don't want, Brian, is people listening to us talking and thinking that, well, my personality is loud and I am, you know, confident in the space. And does that mean that I'm not a great leader? That is not what we are saying at all. No, it's, it's recognizing. Are you loud and, um, putting yourself in the center of attention because you're hoping that you'll be distracting others from some of the challenges that you're facing? Or are you, you know, are you creating a culture where people feel like they can't speak up against you or they can't challenge you because you set yourself up in such a way that people are frightened or fearful of doing that? And a confident leader is somebody who is so in tune with themselves. The great things about themselves and the not so great things about themselves and being okay with the not so great things about themselves. Because we're not perfect human beings. You know, none of us are perfect in any way. And we need to acknowledge and appreciate the great stuff about us, but also the stuff that we're not great at and where our genius doesn't lie and being okay with that and recognizing that we may need to learn in some of those spaces. And some of those spaces, we don't need to learn because we've got other people in our space who will help us achieve the objective that we have, even though our genius may not lie in that space and being okay with that? Because what I find is that, uh, when you know yourself well enough, there isn't anything anyone can really say to you that will shake your confidence. Right? Somebody might say to me or beta, you know, you come up with such great ideas, but you do too much, and you never really get to the end of any of them because you're coming up with new ideas all of the time. I'm like, yeah, I recognize that about myself, and I pride myself in being an innovator and being disruptive and coming up with creative ideas. And I surround myself with a team that can help me deliver it, because I recognize that my genius doesn't lie in, you know, the intricate detail of how to get things done. But I have people in my team that can help me do that and hold me accountable for some of this stuff. And a great leader who's confident will know that about themselves, uh, and don't need to micromanage and don't need to create a fearful culture and don't make life miserable m for others. You know, you can have difficult conversation with others who you may, you know, may not be performing in the way. You don't need to make them feel terrible about themselves. You know that there are ways of having those conversations that will make them feel enlightened and recognize whether they can succeed in that role or not without destroying their confidence or self esteem. You can create a culture where everybody has an equal Chance or an equitable chance to survive and thrive in the way that everybody else can because you're creating that culture for them. And a great, confident leader will see this, will observe this, will recognize the symptoms of a poor culture, and will do everything in their power to make it, uh, accessible and inclusive for everybody around them.

Speaker B: Yeah. And to build everyone else's confidence as well.

Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. We spend so much of our time at work, and I can't tell you how many people I've spoken to who hate what they do or dislike the. What they do or dislike the company that they work with. And I just think, well, you know, we have one chance at, uh, life in the grand scheme of things. Yeah. I always say to the people that I coach is if you truly believe that you are not able to shift or change or, uh, add value in the organization that you are in, then remember, we're not trees. We're not rooted. We can pick ourselves up and exit. And I'm not saying quit tomorrow because not everyone has the privilege to do that, but plan your exit strategy and recognize and understand where your talents will be recognized. One of my most favorite quotes is go where you're celebrated, not where you're tolerated.

Speaker B: Yeah. Yep. I actually. I actually just heard a quote, um, that I think totally fits to that, and it's. I'd much rather be hated for who I am than to be loved for who I'm not.

Speaker A: Yes. Yeah, I love that one as well. That's another favorite one of mine.

Speaker B: Yeah. I think that what you're saying as well is very much around, um, self awareness and the self image. Right. I mean, because you have also great studies, so Psycho Cybernetics is also a great book that anyone could read as well. Um, that talks about the self image and when you put those two together, understanding who you are, that going through that process of figuring out that foundationally who you are and creating that self image, the theater of the mind is what they call it. Right. Um, you know, for you, you know, being an innovator, disruptor. Right. I think that's what kind of ultimately leads you to taking the action that. That develops the confidence that. That you need as well.

Speaker A: Yeah. 100%. Yeah. You know, you need to know yourself well enough. Right. To your. To your point, Brian.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: When you know yourself well enough and you take time to understand yourself. You know, one of the challenges I realized about myself in 2018 was that I had, uh, lost my identity. You know, I'd spent so much of my career and life, really, you Know, conforming to what other people believed I should be, to be a successful leader. And I changed myself to such an extent that I just didn't know who I was. And that was one of my confidence crashes. Uh, and I used to call myself the communications chameleon, right? And I used to remember saying to my boss, don't you worry, you know, I'll persuade them. I will get them on side. And I used to kind of, like, pretend that I loved certain things just to get people to, you know, connect with me or adapt my personality so I don't make other people feel uncomfortable in my company. I used to make jokes about my own culture so other people didn't, or, you know, before anyone else could, just so I could fit in, uh, and belong. And doing that for, you know, almost two decades can really mess with your psyche. And you can struggle, you know, to identify and articulate who you are and what you want. And you get to a certain point in your career where you're just a bit like, what am I doing? Who am I doing it for? And what value am I bringing? What's the legacy that I want to leave? How do I want people to remember me? You know? And I just. I saw a really interesting thing on Instagram today, actually, uh, about the, um, it's like the funeral, um, uh, analogy where, you know, when you pass and, um, people come to a funeral, research shows that out of everybody in that funeral hall, only 10 people will ever cry for you. The average is around 10 people. So why do we worry so much about what other people think about us when only 10 people will ever cry when we're not here? And that kind of hit me hard because we spend so much of our time trying to fit into this vision of what other people believe a good leader should be like, or what a good communications professional should do when we kind of conform to believing certain influences or certain, um, people because we want to be like them. And in that process, we forget who we are. Uh, and it's so important that we spend time to find ourselves and love who we are and, uh, not apologize for it.

Speaker B: Yeah, I couldn't agree more. Despite, even as we grow and we do get this confidence, the ugly head of imposter syndrome of self doubt, um, always tends to rear its head. Right? How do you think leaders can best manage, um, imposter syndrome and confidence? Like, balancing that without becoming inauthentic? Right? Because exactly what you said earlier, it's like, oh, I have this feeling, I feel this pressure that I need to act in a certain way.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: That's not, not me. Right. In order to, to fit in. Right. And uh, just like we talked about, that kind of breeds this insecurity somewhere in the subconscious. Right. That all of a sudden you feel like you're not enough at some point. Right. At some point you break. Right.

Speaker A: Do.

Speaker B: How, how can leaders manage that and be able to project confidence in an authentic way?

Speaker A: Imposter syndrome is or wasn't ever intended to be a syndrome. Right. So we act like it's a disease that can't be cured. What we need to remember about imposter syndrome, um, is that it, everybody suffers from it at some point. Whether you're a man, woman, non binary, it doesn't matter. Right. Every single person, human being generally suffers from it at some point, uh, in their careers, in their personal life. And that's normal to feel that you are, you don't know enough or you should know more. It's normal at the start of anything new. So when you go into anything new, the feeling of um, that imposter in a critic, it will be, will be at peak. And that's a normal experience. That's normal to experience that. What isn't normal is if that continues throughout that role or throughout that um, process or whatever's going on. If it's a continuous feeling. And what I have researched and recognized and read about imposter syndrome is that often if you feel that, if you feel that way continuously, it's because the environment that you're in isn't set up for you to succeed. So if you're feeling, you're having to be somebody that you're not, or your integrity is in question, or you're not living against your values because your type of values or your type of personality doesn't fit in, that likelihood is because the environment is not for you, um, and it's not set up for you. And the sooner you can recognize and realize that, the sooner you can make a decision that's best for your well being and best for your future. Because we put so much blame on ourselves for this fraudulent belief, we don't often look at what's going on around us. Uh, the external factors that are making us feel like we don't fit in, the external factors that make us feel like we're fraud or we have to pretend to be somebody that we're not. And if it's making you uncomfortable and it's making you feel that you're not growing and developing and thriving, then you have, um, it's A sign. It's a red flag that that space isn't for you. Now, there's a difference between a growth mindset, though. Recognizing that you may not know something now, but I will learn to know it soon, because I'm growing and I'm developing, and I recognize that about myself. And that's the difference between continuous feeling like an imposter and this voice shouting at, uh, you every day for a long period of time. Compared to recognizing that you do feel a bit fraudish or you don't feel like you quite got it, but recognizing that you're learning every day, and soon you'll learn and you won't feel that way anymore. And that's the difference between the two. And I think anyone that's listening who continuously has that imposter feeling, I would ask you to pause, reflect, look at the evidence that's taking you to where you are today. Your receipts, as I call them. You know, look at the proof points that have made you the person that you are, and remind yourself of the value that you're bringing every single day. Because we always look at the outcome rather than the journey we're going through. So we're always looking at the ending, you know, like finishing the task, ticking off the to do list. Right. We don't appreciate the journey we've taken to get to that point. And that's the difference in terms of how you should be feeling and what that looks like for you.

Speaker B: Yeah. Most important part is a journey. Right. That's what. That's what shapes us at the end of the day.

Speaker A: 100% enjoying that journey, recognizing, you know, every week, I will take five minutes to talk to two months for myself to write down three lessons I've learned that week. What are the three things that I have learned that week about myself, not about anything else, but about myself that I love, that I appreciate, and that I need to do better in. And I do that every week because it's a reminder to myself that I am, um, an important person in my life. And as much as, uh, leaders, we care about our teams and we care about the programs and the projects that we support. If we don't care about ourselves and we don't put ourselves first, we are not going to be able to help anybody else.

Speaker B: Yeah, I couldn't agree more. This is. You're. You are the most important person in your life.

Speaker A: Yeah. You are the most important person in your life. You have to be. Which is why planes tell you to put the oxygen mask on first. Right. There's A reason for that. Because if you're, you can't pour from an empty jug, you can't help anybody if your well being and mental health is not where you need it to be. And so we have to love and appreciate ourselves first because if we don't, then the likelihood of us giving to other people is not going to help and we can't help other people. We can't leave that legacy that we want to leave.

Speaker B: Yeah, totally. I mean we have all the topics. But there's one thing that I'm very curious about in your research with imposter syndrome, because I remember reading before that imposter syndrome tends to affect women. Mhm. More so than men. And I'm curious if you have found the same thing if it's higher, uh, in women or in underrepresented people. And how can we as leaders actually help foster confidence then for those people to be able to better support them to become the new leaders that we need of tomorrow.

Speaker A: So I would say that imposter syndrome impacts, like, impacts. Sorry everybody, as I said before, it definitely does impact women more because we are living in a world that hasn't been set up for women to succeed. It hasn't. You know, the inequalities and inequities that women still face in the workplace are still very real. When you're trying to battle and navigate through systems that are not set up for you, then yes, you are 100% going to feel like you're an imposter because you are being asked to be somebody, uh, and do stuff that doesn't align with the way you work, uh, and live from anything from the policies from you know, caring responsibilities to maternity or parental leave, uh, to flexible working. Right. The systems haven't been set up for women to succeed in the way that, that men can generally. And that's fact and that's proven and that's research out there that you know, the laws and the policies have been set up for the um, average white man. Let's be on this side, on this side of the world. I'm talking about, you know, Europe, uh, in fact, actually without going into the historical things of everything, no, colonialism has played a big part in how certain countries work as well. Um, and the laws, uh, and the policies have been influenced by canolism behavior. Right? So whether you were, you know, invaded by Britain or the US or Spain or France or whatever in you know, African continent or Asia, generally that the laws have been developed from that period. So we can say that yes, on this Side of the, you know, this side of the world where we live, like the US and UK and mainland Europe. But the influence is across the world in how the systems have been set up, uh, for men to succeed more than women. Things are changing. I'm not saying they're not. They are changing. And there's lots of advocates and, uh, allies who are helping to shift, uh, and things have changed dramatically, I would say, in the last 40, 50 years, but it's not changed quick enough. So women are still going to face that, uh, imposter. Same with underrepresented folks, right? When you're working and living in a world that you're the minority, you will always have a sense of exclusion. And the way leaders can help is by listening and recognizing that your team are culturally, uh, different. So what do you need to do to make sure that fair processes are in place so everybody has equal chance to succeed at opportunities? And we have to be mindful as leaders and be observant enough to know how much is our bias influencing the decisions that we're making? Because we all have a bias and we all lean towards people that we relate with. You know, I will definitely lean towards more South Asian women because I see myself in them, but I know that about myself, so I'll be very aware. Is my bias playing a part in the decision that I'm making about this individual? Am I giving this person an opportunity because we share the same school, or we went to the same university, or we like watching the same TV programs? And it's little things like that that doesn't seem like a massive deal, but can have a massive impact on how you're behaving in the workplace. And we need to understand and observe our team to see who are, who are the ones who are thriving, who are the ones who are, you know, putting the hand up and contributing? Who are the ones who are constantly kind of showing up for themselves? And why are the ones who are not? What's happening? Is it, you know, is it something that we're doing from a work context? Is it something that, uh, something's happening in their personal lives? Like, what do we need to do to make sure that they feel included in some of the work that we're doing? So asking that one powerful question, what can I do to help you thrive in this workplace? What do you need from me to help you do that?

Speaker B: That's powerful. I mean, that's a good segue into inclusivity. Because what I'm hearing there is really, hey, we need a more Inclusive workplace at the end of the day, right?

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Um, and I've heard you mention recently that equity, diversity, inclusion has been weaponized under the banner of meritocracy. Right? So like, uh, how do we coach leaders to maybe talk about some of these areas of cultural transformation. Right. Of inclusion without them fearing, getting it wrong? Because I think that's where we are right now a bit in society and obviously then in business of, um, there's a topic that, like you said, is being weaponized in some places. Right. And they don't know, like, okay, what, what can I say? What, what should I say? What. Not, you know, um, but people don't know where they stand. What's. What do you, what do you think? How can we help leaders work through that?

Speaker A: You've got to lean into your curiosity. You know, most folks are, uh, forgiving if you get things wrong when they can see that you're making a genuine attempt to get things right. If you are making, uh, mistakes time and time again and you're not learning, that's where the frustration starts. And that's when somebody will call, uh, and will hold you accountable. But most folks are open for people stumbling and fumbling their way through a very complex world that we're in right now when it comes to diversity, equity and inclusion. And complex in the sense that it's about people. Right, Brian? And people are complicated creatures. We are, you know, we have very different ways of thinking. You know, uh, I think it's quite clear from what we've seen in recent times about the polarization facing communities. And, you know, we're pitted against each other all of the time. There's so much misinformation and disinformation being spread. The explosion of AI. As much as I value that, that tool and that innovation, because I do think it will revolutionize how we work in the future, we still don't know how to use those tools for the greater purpose. Right. Because it's still full of bias, it's still full of misinformation. There's still lots of disinformation on there. We're not very good at critiquing our own research. Uh, and we're not very good at asking curious questions. We make assumptions about individuals, we stereotype a lot. We listen to people who we probably shouldn't listen to. You know, we should be looking at both sides of the story. I don't think, um, life is as clear cut as some people make it out to be that this is right and this is wrong. I don't think it's that easy to be honest with you. I believe that there's so much different nuances and contexts that we need to be aware of. We spend most of our time on socials communicating with each other without actually knowing that person. Uh, and we're making that assumption about them. So it's causing all sorts of conflict and disagreement. And I don't know any marginalized or underrepresented person who wants to be given an opportunity that they're not qualified for. So when we talk about meritocracy, yes, we agree meritocracy should be, uh, something that we should be thinking about, because you have to create a fair process for everybody to have the opportunity. And that's where we go wrong, because a process isn't bet, and that's what the challenge is. Right. So when opportunities are given to individuals, we're not looking at, uh, the policies that are in place. We're not looking at things like flexible working. We're not even looking at, uh, where are we advertising for these opportunities. Somebody came into my DMs not so long ago talking about, uh, an opportunity in their workplace that they were going to apply for. And the job description was changed for it to fit into the person they wanted the job to get. There was a specific skill that only this one person had that they put into the job description in essential. Now, is that fair? Like, is that a fair thing to do? Probably not. Right? You know, is this essential skill a necessity to that role? You have to ask that question and be honest with yourselves. And based on what they said, I would say no. Not for a communications role anyway, which is what this was for. But I find it, you know, we make these decisions because we think that we're making life a bit easier for ourselves. Right. So I know I want to work with that person because I know them and I know they'll hit the ground running and they've been recommended to me. But is that recommendation based on someone else's bias, Based on what they believe that you would want? And that's what I mean about, uh, meritocracy. Meritocracy I would say most folks will agree with, but the process to get to meritocracy is what people have the problem with. And if the process isn't fair and transparent and accessible and inclusive, then there'll never be meritocracy in senior leadership team.

Speaker B: Yep.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Ah, it's something that we all need to manage and address, Right?

Speaker A: Yeah. And asking questions. We just don't ask enough questions. We're not curious about each other anymore. You know, we base our assumptions based on the things that we read about somebody on LinkedIn or on see their story on Instagram. It's a flashes. We get a flash of this person. We don't connect as much as we probably did connect before hybrid working came into the world or remote working. You know, we just don't take the time to get to know each other as much as we probably did even before COVID Right. You know, things were changing slowly before COVID anyway. But I believe that the art of connection is lost and it's continuously reducing as time goes on.

Speaker B: How does, um, internal communication help with that then? Like, so, I mean, typically, IC tends to be overlooked as a strategic tool. Right. How can they be able to reposition themselves as strategic drivers of impact and not just be seen as messengers? Like, so how can they be a part of that strategic shift to make access and inclusivity and a part of culture be a part of their repertoire that what they're known for of, you know, like, oh, because of what comms did. We see the impact over here because our people are more engaged. They're with us, they are part of the company. Right. How do you see that, um, the role of internal comms being.

Speaker A: I mean, I think I've been talking about this topic since I started in comms, and it's all around data and measurement and insight. Our opinion is important, Our experience around that opinion is important. But we need to back up with data, and we need to back up with insight, and we need to back up with knowledge. And I will always say that we are, uh, business leaders with communication expertise. And that's how I would position ourselves in the workplace. So we need to know what is our business, what are we trying to do, what is the objectives of what we're trying to achieve, what are the things that our leaders want to convey, what's important to our employees? And how do we create that narrative that will help people understand the value that they are bringing to this workplace? And that's our role. Our role is to listen to what our employees and colleagues are saying, translate that into a, uh, business need for our leaders so they recognize and understand some of the challenges, uh, and we create their stories around that to help people understand the value that they're bringing, Using effective channels to do that. Right. I'm not saying basically because it's not basic. You know, people always say that what we do is at rocket science, but it isn't rocket science if you're in that space. But if you're not in that space, then like with anything, if you're a rocket scientist and a rocket scientist is going to go, it's not rocket science. You know, I can easy for me or a math person doing equations. I uh, got to find that easy compared m to somebody who doesn't do that. Right. So we need to be careful about how we talk about our industry and our profession as well. We need to be able to build the case around the insights that we are gathering through active listening, through pulse surveys, through engagement scores, through sentiment checkers, through having conversations looking at how it all connects to the business outcomes. Because if we're not delivering against the business needs and the business objectives, then what are we there to do? Like what is our role in that organization if we're not helping the organization deliver against its objectives? And we need to be able to gather that information to show to our leadership team whether or not we're delivering the correct support based on the impact that they want in uh, the organization. And that's the role that internal comms can play. But we seem to kind of play around in this kind of tactical space. You know, when, when attention isn't given to us. We believe that doing more is going to get us the attention. We believe that spending hours and hours, you know, crafting and developing a uh, good looking newsletter is going to give us that, you know, the seat that everyone talks about, you know, around that table. But business leaders care did that. I know there's been debates online saying that uh, CEOs don't care about comms. You know, the CEOs I know care greatly about comms, but what they care about is the impact. We talk a lot about outputs, we talk a lot about outcomes. We don't often talk about impact. So what impact are all these comms having on the business? And that's the kind of language we need to start talking in. And I know, uh, I can, I can sense some of the eyerol, you know, virtually frame people listening about this topic. But we need to talk in the business language. We need to be able to hold our own around that boardroom table. We need to be able to create our own space and take, you know, somebody said to me the other day, you know, take our own folding chair around that table and elbow our way to that space. Ah. And the only way we can do that is when we believe in what we're doing, when we are confident in our uh, um, abilities and we can hold our own. And in order for it to hold our own, we need to understand the industry and the business that we're supporting.

Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. Do you think we are leveraging technology enough in that space?

Speaker A: No, no. This is, you know, I don't know about you. There's two camps, right, right now in internal comms with tech. We've got one camp who is frightened of it, who believe it's going to take our jobs and, uh, it's nonsense. And if I see one more LinkedIn post talking about em dashes and, um, Oxford Commerce and you know, how it's a telltale sign for people using AI, I'm just going to lose, uh, you know, you just lose the plot. It's like we're talking about the wrong things here. People like, let's not get, you know, bogged down with how people are writing the comms. Is the content relevant? Is it adding value? Is it making a difference? Let's talk about that. Uh, because there are people who write content without using AI which are equally nonstickal. Right? So it doesn't matter what tool you're using, it's how you're using that tool to make a difference. So you've got one camp that, you know, brightened up the tools and the technology and think that it's going to take over their jobs and they won't have anything left to do. Um, and then you've got one camp who is like running away with it and are, uh, using it for absolutely everything and anything, maybe to, to, to, to the other extreme, you know, without actually looking at the negative impact it may have if you're not doing the due diligence around some of that stuff, like, you know, some, some teams are now using it as creating, um, crafting press releases, which is okay, you know, but as long as that you've got a human editor and it's, uh, you know, the accuracy is there and you know. But I know from my journalist friends that people are literally and not comms professionals, but they got rid of the comms professionals and other people are now using chat and other AI tools to craft content and they're just sending it on without doing any due diligence on it. And the inaccuracies and the misinformation on that is just ridiculous.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: So we need to be mindful about how these tools, not only AI, but other tools. Right. And other technology that's around us to help reduce the cognitive overload. That's what it's there to do, is to reduce the cognitive overload using tools like, you know, the service that, uh, you folks provide the tools that you're providing. Looking at the data, looking at the insights, you know, it does the work for you. Uh, so you shouldn't have to, you know, using that kind of stuff to help you identify the impact and the measures and the outcome, and then so you can tell that story in the boardroom is what those tools should be useful.

Speaker B: Absolutely. Um, I couldn't have said it better myself, actually. That's, that's, that's what we are very much all, uh, about is like, you know, how, how can we help drive impact?

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: You know, and that's, that's really a big thing about, about what we do. But something that you mentioned there, that being the case, people are leveraging AI. What skills do you think every communicator needs to develop to stay relevant?

Speaker A: Such a good question. Well, definitely, you know, AI isn't just about how good you're writing the prompt. It's, uh, so much more than that. So you need to be able to learn about the tool in terms of how it consumes data, how it produces data, and what it can do for you beyond just writing a good prompt. So I would advise any comms folks out there to go and find a program or a training course or at least follow somebody that knows what they're talking about in this space and experiment in this. Right. And chat, the OpenAI isn't the only AI tool out there, uh, that can help you. You know, there's so many other versions that can support you, from Perplexity to Claude to Gamma to presentation AI. There's so many different tools, but we default to the most common one because it's the one that most people talk about. So be curious enough to find out about what is this tool, and not only about how to write a good prompt, but also how I can use it to help me with other things. And it may not be chat, it may be other AI tools that are out there that can support you. So that's number one. That's a skill. I would say in the next 12 to 18 months we'll start seeing that. And to be fair, we're seeing it on some job descriptions already. You know, you know, the skill.

Speaker B: I expect that.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: When, when I'm hiring, like, I expect that somebody even uses AI within that, that process, you know, because it's, it's, it's necessary.

Speaker A: Yeah. It's like hiring somebody that doesn't know how to use a calculator. Right. So we're going to get to that stage where it Just becomes the norm, not the exception. And we need to be ahead of the game with this because organizations are also moving at pace with this work now, you know, compared to two years ago when it first started to peak, uh, or bring, you know, become more mainstream, I should say, you know, the technology is moving at such pace that organizations are trying to catch up. So we should be, you know, not moving away from it, but moving towards it. Uh, and we should be knowledgeable at least about what's available so we can advise and guide our leaders in the right space. Especially tools that can help communication be better in the workplace. The other skill I would say, with AI, you know, we need to now become more advisors, I would say, and strategic advisors. And I know the word strategy and strategic is thrown around like you know, anything these days. And people are like, what does it even mean? What does it mean? But it means about long term planning, right? Ultimately strip holes are corporate lingo away from that. But how are we helping the organization plan as much as they can in the long term, bearing in mind that the world that we're living in is still very uncertain. Uh, and the pandemic taught us that you can't always plan for every crisis and every situation. But we can definitely help our leaders think about the long term impact. You know, how are we supporting our teams to retain, attract talent in the workplace? How are we helping our colleagues build pride, uh, around the work that we're doing? How do we build that loyalty that's been lost, you know, that discretionary effort that helps organizations thrive? You know, how do we bring all that back and how do we support our leaders with that? So understanding how you can influence, how you can negotiate, how you can talk the business lingo, you know, all of that stuff is really important. I remember my first ever, uh, invitation around that boardroom table. So I'd been working for 12 years, Brian, in getting recognized and talking about the seat at the table. I finally got this seat at the table and I remember listening to the chief exec and the other kind of exec directors talking about, um, finance and the budget, ebitda, uh, net cash, profit and loss, you know, all those words. And I remember sitting there in silence because I was like, what are they actually talking about? And I couldn't contribute to that conversation at all. So I went off, uh, after my second board meeting and thinking I can't stay silent for longer because I might as well not be here. I went off and did, uh, finance for non finance managers training. Uh, and that completely changed how I showed up in that boardroom and demonstrating how communications is a strategic function and how I can relate back to some of the financial challenges they were having through effective comms. And that gave me not only power in the room, but also confidence in what I was saying. So courses like outside of our own echo chamber and information bubble are equally, if not even more important. So going off and looking at finance for non, um, finance managers, looking at business acumen, learning about how to write a proper strategy, not necessarily a communication strategy, but a business case and a strategy around the business, that kind of stuff is going to elevate you to the next level.

Speaker B: Yeah, no, I couldn't agree. I think that's, uh, a great way to wrap up, uh, because it comes back to what you said earlier is we have to have business knowledge, you know, because even with AI, you're going to be so much more dangerous if you have knowledge that you can leverage with that AI versus just using it and having no clue, um, about what the outcome should be in the end.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: All right, so I think that's great. Maybe let's, let's end with a few rapid fire questions. So I don't think you're super prepared.

Speaker A: No.

Speaker B: Let's go. I just have three of them. What's one myth about confidence that drives you up the wall?

Speaker A: Oh, gosh. That you have to be extroverted and really loud and be center of attention because the most extroverted people still suffer. Uh, with confidence.

Speaker B: Yeah. Okay. I, uh, couldn't agree more. I love that. What's your most gifted book?

Speaker A: The Year of Yes, by Shonda Rhinestone. Uh, it's a book that I gift to so many people because it changed. It changed my life. Uh, that and, uh, Dare to Lead by Brene Brown. They're the two books that I gift to my coaches and to people who are going through a bit of a challenging time.

Speaker B: Amazing. And, um, uh, what's the best advice you've ever received and the advice you give the most?

Speaker A: The best advice I share with myself and with others is you can't be everybody's cup of tea, otherwise you'll be a mug. And that's a reminder to me as a recovering people pleaser, Brian, that there will be people out there who don't like what you're doing, who don't enjoy you standing up for yourself, who may find some of the stuff you're doing, um, isn't aligned with them. That's okay. You know, everybody's allowed to have an opinion, and everyone's allowed to have a view, but you don't always have to take it on board. So you can't be everyone's cup of tea, otherwise you will be a mug. So keep your head up, keep your chin up, and keep looking forward.

Speaker B: Love, uh, it. So, Advita, thank you so much for taking the time to chat with us today. Um, to everyone watching and listening, I guess. First, let us know. Where can everyone find you?

Speaker A: Oh, gosh, I am. I am everywhere. I m. Am on Instagram, I am on LinkedIn. I post every day on LinkedIn. It's my commitment to myself to show up for myself. Uh, so you can find me on LinkedIn, you can find me on Instagram, and you can also find me on TikTok as well. I'm on all three platforms. Yeah, I am on X still, but I don't post on there very frequently. So those are the three main platforms, so Instagram, TikTok, and LinkedIn.

Speaker B: Great. All right, so I hope everyone go out, have a look, um, for Advita. Tell her hello. Um, I'm pretty sure that she'll reply. And we're looking forward to the next book. I know I am.

Speaker A: Thank you so much, Brian. I really enjoyed this conversation.

Speaker B: So thanks for listening. Thanks for watching. Um, again, Brian Tomlinson here, and this has been the Aspire to Inspire podcast. We'll see you on the next one. Hey, if you're getting value from today's conversation, make sure you subscribe right now so you don't miss any future episodes of the Aspire to Inspire podcast.