Financial Clarity: The Overlooked Key to Employee Engagement with Peter Komolafe

Speaker A: I think for any organization who really wants to move the needle on employee productivity with a particular focus on their financial well being, it has to come from the C suite because I think fundamentally you have to have leaders that buy into this. There is an investment of time and obviously money to be able to roll this out. And unless you have everyone in the chain, all the stakeholders lined up buying into this, what I found is there's a lot of friction.

Speaker B: Foreign. Welcome to the Aspire to Inspire podcast where we talk with leaders who've used communication to spark transformation, drive impact and build connection. I'm your host. I'm David Bernanda. I'm the Chief Marketing Officer from Staff base. Today we're digging into a topic that uh, I think is not just timely, it's also pretty urgent in the workplace and that's around financial well being and how this matters for leaders in internal communication. I'm really delighted to say that we have a true expert in this field with us today. Our guest today is Peter Komalaffi. Peter is a best selling authority, uh, award winning financial coach and one of the UK's leading voices on money. His YouTube channel, Conversation of Money has reached over 2 million views and his insights have been featured on the BBC, Channel 5 and ITV. Through his work, Peter is redefining how we talk about money with empathy, clarity and a deep understanding of what really holds people back. Peter, welcome to the podcast. We're so happy you're here.

Speaker A: Thank you so much for having me. Really good to be here.

Speaker B: Uh, oh, uh, no, we're so delighted that you are here. So some of the topics we're going to cover today during the podcast include why financial wellbeing is a leadership responsibility, it's not just something for hr and how to really create that psychological safety around money conversations at work. And then something that I also think is really important, which is around the hidden costs for ignoring financial stress on your team's engagement and performance. And particularly if we look at the cost of living right now, which is something that we'll come onto is something that's just so important. So really looking forward to this conversation with you, Peter.

Speaker A: Yeah, and there's quite a lot to cover in this arena because as we look at the current state of play, whether you're in the US or in the uk, you even in Europe, I would argue there are a lot of pressures externally that have an impact on people's personal finances and you can't get away from how that correlates to people's performance in the workplace. So this is definitely, uh, a pressing topic for businesses and productivity.

Speaker B: Yeah, 100%. You've obviously worked with organizations across sectors to build a kind of financial confidence. And I know that one thing that stands out, um, whenever you do that is secrecy surrounding financial conversations. So I mean, it's always kind of a taboo topic in the workplace in many, you know, many workplaces. But why should C level and communication leaders focus on financial wellbeing in the workplace? And how can they kind of overcome reticence to hold these types of, of discussions and have these chats?

Speaker A: Yeah, really good question. I think, you know, uh, whenever you look at business and organizations, I think we're in a different time now. I think with the advent of social media, certainly with what I do online, people are more vocal about the way they see, uh, things and the way, I guess, reality is for them. We're in a sharing culture right now. And I think in the workplace, specifically, the workplace is a place where you go to work and it's unfortunately where most people spend most of their day at. So people will get up at, uh, 8:00 clock in the morning, get into the office at 9, finish at 5, maybe even later. Sometimes the bulk of the day is at work. And I think that as you look at people's timetables and the way people divide their lives, especially in an environment where people are required to do longer hours and people are working longer hours now, if you have staff that are financially under pressure, they are struggling with just making ends meet, there is undoubtedly going to be a connection to how productive and effective they are in that workplace. I think for C Suite though, and this is what I've seen in the years where I've been working with organizations, is that there is this, there's this fear on how to approach the topic there. On one hand there is an acknowledgement that, okay, maybe this is a problem that we need to, to look at. But on the other hand, there's this fear of, well, we're delving into people's personal circumstances here. Where do we draw the line almost? And I think that's the biggest struggle that the C Suite face.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I can definitely understand that. It's almost, um, a feeling that whatever you say could potentially be the wrong thing. But I think one of the things that you've highlighted is that actually this is something now that we really can't ignore as leaders because it really does have broader implications. And it's not just the standard HR discussion around what do people earn and how is salaries benchmarked. For example, or uh, what do bonus payments look like or what do benefits look like? It's not an operational topic anymore, but one of the things that you've flagged is that it actually directly influences business performance. Can you share a little bit more about that in terms of what you see, uh, around that business performance aspect and how it can impact on business outcomes if we don't deal with it?

Speaker A: Yeah, sure. So there have been a number of kind of surveys and reports that people have come up with over the past few years. And we have one from uh, PwC and I'll just read you the stat here. It says that 33% of full time employers report that money worries negatively impact their productivity on a day to day basis. And when you think about productivity, it's not just the fact of, okay, people come into work, how attuned and engaged are they in that workplace in terms of them completing their tasks, but you also have to figure out the recognition that if someone is under financial pressure, what does that also do for your retention? Now if your retention is down, obviously that's going to impact your productivity within the business. And I don't want this to come across as though this is something that should be an additional thing that business has to think about. I mean, let's face it, we are on the brink of probably, uh, another set of tax writers in the Autumn statement, some of which may impact businesses. But businesses have a lot of pressure right now, whether it is, you know, having to deal with an increase in national insurance contributions or not. But what I'm trying to say here is those are external factors and oftentimes those, uh, external factors will have an impact on the business and how the business is run. But it also has an impact on the individuals in your business who you are relying on to be able to make profit and to be able to have your business run efficiently. And when you start looking at, you know, know, stats like 42% of stressed employees are job hunting, that right there becomes a bit of a problem. There was a piece of research that was out in 2022 and it looked at the impact on the private sector in terms of how much it cost businesses, uh, when they have employees who are under financial stress and the number was in the billions, this is a really big problem. So on one hand, as a business owner or C suite person in the business, you have to think about, yes, you've got all these external factors, but I think the biggest thing is to try and look after the internal factors around you. Because in the Circle of influence, that's what you're going to have the most control over. And the better you can help people feel, which we'll probably jump into a little bit later on in this conversation about how they are in the, in the workplace and what they have available to help their circumstances. And you're only going to give that little bit of a nudge potentially to the bottom line.

Speaker B: Yeah, I mean that, that, I mean that 42% figure is, is actually quite shocking, isn't it? And we, we think in a way like, okay, that's, that's about the people, but it isn't. It's, it's actually about the business. Because increased churn within an organization means off boarding cost. It means, it means recruitment cost, it means onboarding cost, doesn't it, it all kind of adds up.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. And so I think it requires perhaps a little bit of a step back and a little bit, a bit of a rethink around. Okay, so what do we have in the employee benefits repertoire that we can perhaps explain a little bit clearer or communicate better on? What are the things that we perhaps do in our onboarding service when we are taking on new employees to try and understand, you know, what are, ah, the things that really matter to them? Because let's face it, it's not just the money. I've worked with a lot of organizations in the past where unfortunately they couldn't offer a pay rise. And you have to communicate that to your staff members. And in a situation where they have it, they have got financial pressure. That may not be the most, uh, obvious thing that they want to hear, but that will be the reality for a lot of businesses. They can't increase salaries, they can't give more of a bonus. But what you can do is you can offer some form of workshops or communications or a program of some kind that allows them to understand what you have in the employee benefits and how to use it to better their financial situation. And in the organizations where I've worked, they found that actually that has a big positive impact on morale and the way people think and feel about the workplace. Because it's not just about doing something, it's about making people feel as though you care. And if you think about loyalty within the business and retention, that's really important.

Speaker B: Yeah, it really, really is. And actually when we look at the current state of the workplace, there's so much fear and uncertainty in many organizations right now. Uh, and especially a lot of it surrounds that communication element you just mentioned. We did our annual Employee communication impact study with YouGov and we found that poor communication drives turnover. And this is just one of those many topics linked to, you know, that that doesn't really get covered. And I think that's pretty concerning when you consider that only 10% of non desk employees in the U.S. for example, reported being very satisfied with their internal communication. So, you know, which when you consider that 80% of all employees are actually disconnected, right, they're frontline workers, we're opening up an enormous gap there. One of the things we did find though during that study was that actually one way that we can address it is with the trust that does exist between an immediate supervisor and an employee. So, you know, uh, people might not always have trust towards their organizations or to corporate, I suppose, as a whole, or headquarters or whatever you call it, but they do tend to trust their immediate supervisor. And if their supervisor builds a good relationship with them, um, at whatever level, whether it's a team leader, a, uh, manager, department manager, whatever that role is, then that has an oversized impact on how employees feel about the organizations that they work in. So with that in mind, it'd be good to understand from you, like what are the ways that managers and comms leaders can give their employees security and also make them feel valued if they don't have that budget? I mean, you mentioned doing workshops with them. Are there other things that they can do though, at a kind of a more, um, you know, at a more personal level or, you know, or should managers be lobbying for something else?

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I'm going to give you a personal story here. And this is one of the things that I often talk about in the realm of financial well being, the impact that, uh, my manager had on me at the later stages of my career in Canary Wharf. And I think this is really, really important because it goes back to who you recruit and perhaps your company ethos and the culture that you have within that business. So I started in Canary Wharf in 2012. It was for an, uh, investment house, a pension provider at the time. And I started as a telephone boy. So answering the phone, picking up the phone, making meetings, that kind of stuff. And in the five years that I was there, I went from telephone boy and I ended up on the executive team. But one of the, the people that has had, and I'm not just talking about in the workplace, the person that's had the biggest impact on my life, period was, was my immediate manager, guy called Richard Horner. And the difference with Richard from every other manager that I've had. And I've had a couple that have really given me a head start. But his main point of impact was he really took an interest in me and what I wanted to achieve personally. He knew my story. He knew that I'd been in debt. He knew that I'd been homeless once upon a time. And he really took an interest around, okay, look, what is it that you actually want to achieve? You're here now, you're earning good money or decent money. How do we make sure that your time here is actually worth it? And if it wasn't for him, I wouldn't have had the epiphany that I had at the time around structuring my finances a little bit better and having a solid personal goal that I could move towards. And at the time, it was getting on the property ladder. But he helped me unearth that. He sat me down, he said, listen, I know you've been homeless. I know you've been in a load of debt. You're here right now. You've got a really good opportunity here. What do you want to achieve? And he. He almost coached me, if you will. And, um, some people will say that's not the job of a manager. But the reason why he did that was because, uh, we were in a highly pressurized environment. It was a sales environment, and you may call this manipulating people. I think it was getting the best out of me because what I did is I went out and I smashed my target. So the business had the upside that they wanted, but he gave me something that honestly changed my trajectory. And I think that that should be something that should be a priority in the culture within a business. Having people who are in management who aren't just about the numbers, they're about the people.

Speaker B: I think that is so. Right. Firstly, Richard sounds like an incredible person.

Speaker A: He's amazing.

Speaker B: Yeah, he's amazing. If I just, uh. What, what. What a fantastic, uh, manager to have and friend and colleague and, uh, I. I assume mentor now for you as well. But Richard did something there that most leaders actually aren't, um, often prepared to do, right? Crossing potentially a line into asking you about what you personally wanted to achieve. You know, sometimes managers do shy away from that, but. But actually building that psychological safety around that conversation and getting you to a place where you are, uh, open to having that discussion is kind of interesting because it's something that not many managers would necessarily think of. They would tend to think of keeping work is work.

Speaker A: But what I would add to that is this is all. This is all based in psychology, okay, so we all have intrinsic and extrinsic motivations. Okay? So extrinsic motivations are the money, uh, the external factors, the external rewards that you, that you get. The intrinsic motivations are the internal things that motivate you that mean something to you. What he was able to do was tap into the, the intrinsic, the internal motivations which just so happened in our circumstance and our business at the time, meant that the extrinsic motivations and the extrinsic rewards that I also wanted aligned perfectly. And I think that when you look at businesses and you think about productivity specifically, another stat from this report from PwC said that employees lose 150 hours of productivity a year if they're worried about their finances. So if you think about why do people wake up in the morning, why do they go to work? Yes. To feed families, to send their kids to school, to keep a roof over their head. Tap into that a little bit, dig a little bit deeper. Because we all have those intrinsic motivations. How can you tap into that as a business to say, okay, look, this is how we might be able to help you. If someone is struggling with, uh, uh, childcare fees, for example, what do you have in your employee benefits repertoire that might be able to help with that? Because if it is about making sure that their kids are going to be in a good position whilst they're young, during the day, whilst they're at home, that is a meaningful motivation. It makes people feel good about being in the workplace. The workplace doesn't just become a place to go to work. The workplace is something that actually allows them to build and create the life that they want. And I think it's a little, you have to dig under the surface a little bit.

Speaker B: I think that that's, that's really, really great advice. And it's, it's not obvious, is it, as a manager? You know, most managers are trained to think about the work, the process of work, how to organize people to get things done, and maybe how to motivate people in terms of, um, in terms of financial motivation at a top level, you know, at a very crude level. But actually from what you've said, some of those underlying factors, they're the actual unlocks. It's not necessarily just the top line figures.

Speaker A: Yeah, we know from research that using extrinsic motivations to drive performance, it does work. It does work to a certain extent, but it gets to a point where it becomes unproductive. Because if, let's just say, for example, the motivation is to earn X amount in bonuses. Okay. The person hits it the first time, second time, third time. As you know, as human beings, once we have something, it kind of loses its value a little bit. So it will work to a certain extent. But for me at the time, yes, I needed the money because I wanted to be on the property ladder. Uh, one thing that he helped me realize was, you know, I was a once upon a time homeless. So for me the thought of home ownership was never really something that for some reason really entered into my head at the time. I was more about the fact that I was in this place that I never thought I would be. I didn't have a university degree and I was just there to kind of just take it all in and enjoy what I was doing there on a day to day basis and being challenged. I didn't really think beyond this is an opportunity to get on the poverty ladder to acquire an asset to help my financial situation as a whole. He made me realize that. So yeah, the money goes somewhere, but it goes to a certain extent. But having the underlying intrinsic push really tipped me over the head in head in terms of performance and productivity and what I was able to offer the business.

Speaker B: Fantastic. Now uh, Peter, you do a lot of workshops and mhm. In those workshops you kind of stress the importance of clarity, simplicity and non judgment when it comes to finance. But these are also kind of core principles of what uh, we would regard as kind of great internal communication as well. So I'm curious to know from you how comms teams can kind of incorporate financial literacy into their messaging in a way that's informative but also not overwhelming and maybe also recognizes the nuance within organizations of a very wide range of roles, some perhaps at the lower end of the salary spectrum, right up to kind of executive levels, which are obviously at the other extreme. Just um, wondered if you had any thoughts around that.

Speaker A: Yeah. So I think the first thing to do is to number one, communicate that you want to create an environment where it is okay for people to ask questions if they want to ask questions about the employee benefits or whatever it might be. I think we have to acknowledge that money is, it shouldn't be a taboo, but it still is to a certain extent. And as adults, whether you are at the bottom of the salary spectrum or right at the top of the salary spectrum, there is still a bit of a reticence to actually talking about or opening up about your own personal finances. I find that once you get people going, it almost opens the floodgates because we then Come arrive at a place where there is an acknowledgement that we're all in the same boat, trying to achieve the same things, albeit at different stages. So I think the first thing is to communicate that there is help out there and anyone is able to ask questions. And we'll be aiming to help everybody at different levels or stages of the income spectrum. I think that is first and foremost. I think secondly, you have to try and figure out how are you going to go about doing this. So I do a lot of workshops. I help people with companies with a lot of programs. And I think sometimes when we look at financial wellbeing and that as a topic in the workplace, what I've found over the past four years at least is oftentimes there are things that are done because it feels like it's a tick in a box effectively. I always, uh, advocate where you can send out a survey and just see what is the pressing thing for people. And once you have the survey back, you'll have real insights into, okay, at different stages, these are the issues. And that will allow you to have a more targeted approach in terms of if there's something on your employee benefits that clearly solves the problem, how are you going to communicate it and what you need to highlight. But I think just opening the doors, first and foremost, having the acknowledgement, yeah, it's money. We're talking about money here. So there's a little bit of, uh, inertia, but also making sure that you have an environment where people feel as though they're not going to be judged and just being open in that regard, that can be difficult to do. This goes down to culture. If you already have an open door culture or policy in the office where people can talk about most things, it's easier than if you have a culture that perhaps doesn't necessarily accommodate that. But yeah, those would be the first two things that I would say would be the starting blocks.

Speaker B: That's really, really great advice. And you also talk a lot about the power of conversation. We've talked a little bit about those conversations between managers and employees. But just I think, uh, two questions for me. One is what, you know, what role should internal comms teams play in encouraging those moments or not? Or should it be down to HR from your point of view? But also, um, going back to your earlier, uh, example about Richard being a mentor to you as well, kind of intrigued as well to know, like, what do you think the frequency of those conversations should look like? You know, is this something that you would touch on? I don't know, once a quarter, a couple of times a year, or is it much more regular than that? It's um, or these kind of like landmark moments in your life that, you know, how do you see it?

Speaker A: Well, let's start with the first one first. I, um, think, look, HR comms, I think those two departments tend to work hand in hand. I think for any organization who really wants to move the needle on employee productivity with a particular focus on their financial well being, it has to come from the C suite because I think fundamentally you have to have leaders that buy into this because, you know, sometimes there is, there is an investment of time and obviously money to be able to roll this out. And unless you have everyone in the chain, all the stakeholders lined up buying into this, what I found is there's a lot of, uh, friction. That means that sometimes things aren't done properly or it's just an afterthought. We'll throw a workshop one off and that's it, it's done. Which a one off workshop might work fine, but in some, most cases that I've seen, when you dig under the surface, there's a little bit more to go at. So I think it has to come from C suite on the manager side. I mean, Richard was awesome. I mentioned in my book, I give him a special mention in my book because he had a lot to do with what I do now and the journey that I've been over the past five years. But we had monthly meetups. We would have like one on ones every month as part of a team, individually. And he would just, you know, give me a bit of a nudge and be like, you know, this is how you, how far you are along and you know you're going to hit this or you're not going to hit this. We need to give it a bit of a push. Just that monthly nudge. But in, not in a, in like a manager, his approach was very unique. I, uh, consider him a friend even though he was my manager at the time and we still had that respect in that workplace relationship. But I knew that he had an interest in me and because he had an interest in me, I was going to do anything for him to make sure that obviously when you're looking at your manager, he has performance figures that he needs to hit that is reliant on me and the rest of the team. So I wanted to make sure that I did my part for him because he had an interest in me. And so we had monthly catch ups which we found really, really effective. And then quarterly, we'll do a big update. Uh, in terms of, right, we hit it, we overextended, we smashed the target, or, you know, right, maybe we're a little bit behind. What can we do? And we had very constructive conversations grounded in reality, around, okay, what do we need to do? Thinking about the controllables, the first step, not thinking 10 steps ahead. But that's a management style, right? That's thinking with clarity and communicating with clarity.

Speaker B: That's great. And that's really, really good advice, I think, for leaders. And I think, let's say your argument today has convinced a leader. And they hear this and think, actually that's something I should be doing with my team. But they kind of don't know where to start. So if they want to start addressing financial well being more openly, what are ways that they could do it without coming across as intrusive or preachy or maybe inauthentic because they never did it before? You know, how, how can they do that in a kind of a safe way?

Speaker A: Okay, so look, depending on the culture within the organization, it can be easier. Like I said, if you have an open door policy where everyone is kind of open to wider discussions, it's much easier. But what I would do is, and what I recommend is that you effectively just, you know, raise it in as part of your communication to say, look, we're really interested to know, um, and improve financial wellbeing in the workplace. And so we might send out a survey to understand where you are. Now, I think people sometimes will assume that they will not get any responses. And again, this depends on the culture. So if you have an open door culture, you'll get responses. If you have never done this before and perhaps the culture isn't as optimal as you would like it to be, it might come across as intrusive, but it really depends on how you package and you word this. It's all about framing. Okay, But I think what I find is that, and I've done this a number of times, you think people don't want to talk about this? People do. People are already talking about this. They're talking about it to each other. Right.

Speaker B: Whether you like it or not, it's happening.

Speaker A: Exactly. Whether you like it or not, it's already happening. Particularly if they feel like, okay, I need to be paid more and I'm not, or, you know, I'm not hitting my target and there's so much pressure. You know what they say in businesses, in uh, a business, uh, a bad apple can, can spoil the Whole bunch. Because it's, it's, it's infective. People are already talking about this. So the fact that you're able to provide or at least offer some way for you to acknowledge that, okay, maybe you are under financial pressure and maybe we can't give you a, uh, pay rise or pay you bonuses, but we care. I think that is a huge, huge first step to take. But I would say a survey, some form of communication to say, look, this is on our radar. If you do have any, um, financial stresses or problems, we'd love to know what they are in what areas you're struggling, so we can provide something to help you. I think it all starts there first.

Speaker B: Yeah, I think that's great advice. And tell me that when you've worked with leaders who've been navigating with kind of skepticism at that executive level. So maybe they're, I don't know, maybe they're a department head or a manager. But, uh, and they, and they want to go about this, but actually they're getting pushback or concerns being raised from executive stakeholders. How have they dealt with it and what would be your advice for things that they can do to kind of position some of that, some of that value that you mentioned, uh, earlier, earlier in our chat today?

Speaker A: Well, I think the first thing to know is that some people may not necessarily buy into it and it may take a little bit of time. People think these kind of, um, policies and frameworks will just be a win overnight. You've got to, it's a long tail strategy at the end of the day, it's not something you're going to do today and see the impact tomorrow. I think particularly when you're trying to engage, depending on the size of your workforce, a small or a large workforce, but I think when you're looking at stakeholders specifically, a lot of the time when I've had conversations with people, it's actually showing them the numbers and showing them the data and be like, actually, you know what? This is what we're finding from researchers like the one that I've quoted today in terms of productivity and asking them, how do we deep dive? Can we deep dive? How do you think these numbers relate to your business? And oftentimes there are easy markers for this. Absenteeism, presenteeism, sick days. Those are all potential indicators that can tell you and at least give you a hint into, okay, so is this a specific issue within my business? And once you're able to kind of get them to look at that and um, they realize well, actually, hang on a second. There might be a bit of an issue here. It becomes a lot easier with a little bit of evidence. But you have to go on the X side of if you can show them the evidence, a lot of them tend to buy in a little bit more that it becomes about, okay, so how, what do we do and how do we go about implementing or executing on it?

Speaker B: Got it, got it. Uh, that's so helpful. Now you develop customized business cases for comms professionals to introduce those financial wellbeing initiatives. When we've got, as far as executives buying into it, obviously that includes that buy in. You talk about selecting the right methods to do it and then how you deliver through channels like workshops and so on and so forth. Can you just walk us through what a strong business case would actually look like and maybe how comms leaders can look at their own organizations and then tailor it?

Speaker A: Yeah, sure. I mean, so look in the survey side of things and again, bearing in mind that you're looking at people on different sides of the income spectrum, it's really important to understand that there will be different challenges and different things that people want to address at any given time. And I think the first thing is to acknowledge that you're not going to solve all of those problems because it's impossible for you to. But what you can do in the survey process is understand what the overarching problems are and then you can niche down and funnel into the information accordingly. What I found with a lot of organizations is, and this is just a common thing, which I'll give you a bit of a flavor on, there's a lot of interest around, yes, financial management, budgeting, that kind of stuff, um, across the board, whether you're at the lower end or the high end. That I think that is a generic topic that I think a lot of people are very much attuned to because everybody wants to be better and be a bit more efficient with their money. Then at different, um, stages of the income, kind of like ah, band, you start getting into different topics. Homeownership is definitely one. Pensions is definitely another very, very, very big one. And again that's a byproduct of people and the news covering a lot about the state, pension, all of that stuff, triple lock, um, which is now under question. So once you're able to understand all of that, it allows you to have a bit of an overview of where to target things. And then it's just about understanding what the execution of what the strategy will be for those very specific elements like I said earlier, one of the easiest wins that most organizations already have is you already have an employee benefits program. So there is already going to be a lot in there which will serve some people at the lower end and uh, maybe not people at the higher end, but you've got that as a tool at your disposal that you can use. And I think just, you need to have a very nice overview first and foremost of what you need to target your efforts at. So it's not just a sporadic tick in the box. We did a workshop around this topic because we think this is what people are struggling with, that is a waste of time and resources. Be very purposeful and intentful around trying to find out what those things are. It's a better use of money, you're going to get better results. And actually the impact on the employees will be so much more pointed. And again, going back to the idea that you're proving that you actually care, that you're listening, that goes along with long way. It really, really does. And I don't think a lot of people, uh, a lot of organizations tend to appreciate how a little gesture like that can, how far it can go.

Speaker B: Yes. Yeah, I couldn't agree more. And uh, I think oftentimes benefits are so. Benefits packages are so under leveraged, aren't they? Now everybody reads them when we join an organization, but then people forget they don't do their admin. They fall behind on their paperwork and the next thing is they've got a problem because their life circumstances change, they've got something to deal with, but they forget that actually that there are benefits that they could potentially leverage.

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean the biggest thing that I've seen in the employee benefit side is the communication isn't clear enough. They get given a pack, that's it. They might have like a webinar for half an hour that tells them, okay, this is what you've got. That isn't necessarily enough because in the um, onboarding process there is so much to learn that, you know, I don't know whether you've ever started or worked for an organization where as part of the onboarding process the thing that you paid attention to the most is the employee benefits package. You probably paid attention to, oh my God, I've got so much to learn just to do the job that the employee benefits package is just, it's back there, it's in the back of your mind, you pick it up, you think, I'll read it later on. You never do. And maybe that's a strategy of its Own. And I've, uh, worked with organizations on this specifically. Yes, Speak about the employee benefits package as a thing when they join, but maybe just have a, uh, suite of content online in your HR portal, for example, that simply explains each aspect of the employee benefits program and how to use it. There's a lot of information about what it does, but not how to use it. And in simple terms, I think that's a very, very quick win right there.

Speaker B: Yeah, sounds like great advice for organizations because it's true. You know, maybe things like regular refreshers, uh, refresher webinars as you go, as you say. Like we have that 30 minute M onboarding webinar. Ah, we've all done it. And then things kind of go by the wayside after that because you do set it to one side. You focusing. I've got to learn how to do this job. And then by the time you may have time to actually deal with some of those things, oftentimes you've just completely forgotten what existed. So I think that's really good advice. Um, tell us where you've seen this. Obviously with all the companies that you've worked with, where you've seen this work really well. Can you share a success story of an organization that effectively integrated financial wellbeing into its culture and what that meant to the organization?

Speaker A: Yeah, so I worked with a, uh, firm, this is probably in 2023. They're actually in London. They're a small property kind of like firm. And whilst they had funding, we were literally in the midst of like energy prices increasing. Everything was up in terms of the cost of living at the time. And they couldn't offer pay rises or any bonuses or anything like that. And we, I worked with them specifically around. Okay, look, so what are the main struggles that your employees actually facing? Is it they had a relatively small team, which made things a whole lot easier. And they were like, well, we don't really know. So let's just do a survey to find out what it was. And what we found out was there were. There were three specific things and one of them really being the main one around. Okay. Because they're based in London, most of their team are from London or traveling in from London from, you know, Tunbridge Wells Orpington or places like that.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: The money wasn't going far enough. And so we did a couple of things around financial management. And one thing I do want to stress with this is on the content side of things, and content and workshops are very, very easy to kind of like pull off if you want to. What I think is really, really important is to make sure that you put partner yourself with somebody who can actually give practical advice, uh, well, coaching guidance on things like that. These are the immediate things that you can do and where you can put that in tandem with an employee benefits package. So for example, with these guys, we ran a workshop on financial management, giving them some real, real life structures, frameworks to help individuals find efficiencies within their, within their spending where there might be a little bit of wastage because that goes a very, very long way. And then we tied in the fact that, well, actually if you're traveling from Orpington or Tunbridge Wells, did you know that there's something on the employee benefit side that can actually help you have that money up front and you can pay back on a monthly basis, but it becomes a lot more cost effective for you. And that over a period of time made a huge, huge difference just in terms of just the general morale in the team and the productivity within the team because for them they were like, okay, you weren't able to give us a pay rise. But actually we found the information and the workshop really, really useful. The follow up then becomes really important, uh, on that, you know, what ongoing support do you actually need with it? So I did a package with them where for example, we had a, uh, suite of things that we did right afterwards just in terms of giving people a forum to basically check in, ask questions, so on and so forth. So it worked really, really well there. On larger, in larger organizations it can be a little bit more difficult. But within larger organizations you also have a proper HR team that is able to uh, fill in some things. So what I often do there is talk about from a system point of view, what can you put in place from a systems point of view. So do you have a content library? Do you have a system, for example, where you have the ability for people to go in, ask questions and someone comes back to them not internally, but an external factor built into your wider HR system. There are so many things that you can do. It's just about ensuring that you're able to tailor it to specifically specific needs.

Speaker B: So thinking about that whole employee journey and um, potentially, I mean thinking about it from a marketing and comms perspective as well, if you, if you're in those large organizations, also kind of segmenting your employee base into different groups and then thinking about how those different groups might need to be messaged differently as well. Specifically depending on their circumstances.

Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. And also knowing, you know, each company has a wide range of people that work for them from, you know, age demographics. Right. If you have employees that are mid-40s, plus, say 44 plus, it is very, very likely that they're going to be more, uh, concerned and more actively thinking about retirement or university fees for children, for their kids. Those. Right. There are markers. There are certain things that we know are financial topics of interest to certain demographics. So you think of it that way, and you don't need a survey to know this, but if you think about it that way, that informs you the type of, that perhaps you could offer within a HR suite or within your employee benefit repertoire that you might be worthwhile highlighting for people. One of the big things, and I, uh, do want to speak about this, is for people who are, you know, relative. You know, I would say 25, maybe to 44. I would say one of the big, big challenges that I'm seeing a lot right now is how on earth am I going to save for deposit for a home? M. I missed. Property prices increasing. Yes. Wages being stagnant for some time, inflation, interest rates. That is a big concern for people who are 25, 44. It really, really is. And that on its own, as a personal goal and ambition for a lot of people within that age demographic is the main driver why a lot of them will say, actually, you know what, if I can't make the money that I need here, I have to go somewhere else. And so just acknowledging that and knowing, okay, cool, if that's going to be a problem within that demographic, within your organization, you know, giving them some information, some webinars, uh, some educational content on how do you practically plan for saving a deposit? How does the process actually work? Those things are huge, huge value adds for people of that demographic with that particular concern. Because there isn't a lot of information about how to do this practically in most fears, let, uh, alone the workplace.

Speaker B: No, it's true. And, uh, that's really great advice. One, switch gears a little bit and talk about, uh, you and the platform that you've built in communicating this financial advice to individuals and to organizations. Obviously, you've built this very successful platform using YouTube and podcast, podcasting and storytelling to educate and empower people around money. It's such a powerful thing that you've actually, you've actually created, Peter. But as organizations also leverage some of these digital tools internally, I mean, how can they, how can they do something similar? How can they take those tools and potentially, um, break down those financial taboos to a degree in order to do that, if it's okay with you. As we, as we kind of wind down towards the end of the podcast, I would love to just give you a couple of rapid fire, uh, questions before we get to our financial, uh, kind of final question of the day.

Speaker A: Yeah, sure. Yep. Okay.

Speaker B: Right, so here we go. Uh, I've got four of them for you. So first, what's one financial myth that holds people back the most?

Speaker A: One financial myth that holds people back the most. Oh, there are so many that pop to, uh, to my head immediately. I think the biggest one is that you need a lot of money to make a huge difference. That isn't the case. And I, I, ah, I can talk about this from a personal point of view as well. You know, as humans, we will procrastinate and say we're not going to make this change until this happens and we need to have X amount of money in the bank in order for us to be able to. Small things add up over time, small things compound over time. And the sooner you're able to make small changes, the more that is going to compound and the sooner, the longer it's going to compound for bigger effect. This idea that you have to wait until you're at a certain stage is just false. It really is.

Speaker B: That's great advice. Okay, one piece of financial advice that you wish that every employee received on their first day at work.

Speaker A: Okay, this is an easy one. Look at your pensions and pay attention to the pension. I started my career in financial services for a building society, then moved on to a proper, proper bank. And back then, uh, defined benefits pensions was a thing. I was offered a defined benefit pension. I was never explained how it worked. I didn't understand how important it was. I took the beer money because they gave me the option of we can pay this into this pension, which is defined benefit, or we can give you the beer money every month. I was in my twenties, I said, I'll take the beer money, I'll go drink it with my mates. Big, big mistake. Because defined benefit pensions are like gold dust now. So please pay attention to your pension, your auto enrollment, and what you're being offered there. Really ask the right questions. And if you don't know the right questions to ask, get some information online. My YouTube channel is a great place to start on the pension.

Speaker B: Listen to Peter Ye. Yeah, that's great advice. Um, what's the most surprising thing you've learned from coaching people about money?

Speaker A: The most surprising thing that I've learned, we talked about it being very taboo. I Think when people get into the coaching environment, like I've already said this, whether you're in an individual setting or a group setting, the floodgates open. I feel like it's a repressed subject that we, in our back of our minds, think we shouldn't talk about. But when we get to the point where we can talk about, we just want to let it go. I ran a workshop early this year for a corporate group on my book. So I've got the Money Basics program, which is basically five principles in my book that I run corporate workshops for. So a group of 30 people. And each week we would have like a group coaching session where people can ask questions and how candid people were being about their own personal struggles with finances really took me aback. And this is in a group setting, by the way. And that's because I get them to a point where they feel comfortable to share. It is a safe space. And what they realize in the group setting is that person over there that you saw in another department has got the same problem that I have. So actually you don't feel alone. And oftentimes you find that there's commonalities and there are shared experiences. And it just helps with people realizing that this shouldn't be and isn't a, uh, taboo topic. It's something that we're all struggling with or have to contend with at some point in life.

Speaker B: Fantastic. And then finally, what's a book or resource that you'd recommend for leaders who want to understand financial wellbeing a little bit more? Um, on a deeper level, for financial

Speaker A: wellbeing specifically, is there a book that I could recommend? Nothing comes to mind specifically at this point in time because there aren't really that many books, books per se, that I would say are on. Not at least that I've come across that on financial, well, being specifically in the workplace. For C Suite, maybe that is a book that needs to be written actually, uh, which might be a good. Might be a bit of an idea. Could be a bit of an idea there. But what I would say is, you know, I think ultimately if you're in the C Suite, you know, your people are really important to the success of the business. And I think any C Suite, you know, um, individual will recognize that. I think it's the small things that really, really matter. Richard made a huge impact on my own personal journey because that was just the culture in the business. Yes, it was very hard. No, it's very competitive. But we actually cared about the people. And I think if there's Anything that you can do as a C suite is have people at the center. And I know businesses say this all the time, but do you really in the processes, in the policies, have people at the center? And I think if you can nail that, you're, you're on a good path.

Speaker B: That's great. Peter. I absolutely love this conversation. It's been so different to, to uh, some of the other episodes we've done, but I think so valuable in many ways. I'm sure a lot of our listeners will get a huge amount out of it. Tell me, where can our viewers find more about you and also your work? Where should they look?

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean the easiest places will probably be YouTube because I produce content there all the time and you know, I talk a lot about what's going on in the news right now to help people make sense of what it means for them. Instagram is also another one. So on YouTube it's conversation of Money and on Instagram it's Conversation of Money. Or if you just put my name into Google, there will be a lot that comes up there with links, uh, to, to both of those channels.

Speaker B: That's great. And obviously we will also include your channel in the link in the description to the podcast if people want to, to go in there and uh, and check it out. So Peter, once again, thank you so much. We really appreciate you taking the time.

Speaker A: No worries. Thanks for having me. Hey, if you're getting value from today's

Speaker B: conversation, make sure you subscribe.

Speaker A: Subscribe right now so you don't miss

Speaker B: any future episodes of the Aspire to Inspire podcast. Mhm.