#187: Business Owner Burnout: The Hidden Financial Cost of Leadership Burnout

Speaker A: Welcome to the Cultivating Business Growth podcast, bringing you bi weekly discussions designed to help you grow your business and create the lifestyle you desire. Elevate your business with proven strategies from virtual CFOs, CPAs and business advisors. We discuss real world challenges solved with actionable steps that get you the results you need both in business and building the life you deserve.

Speaker B: Thank you for joining us for another episode of Cultivating Business Growth. Today we're going to be talking about how burnout shows up financially in your business. Burnout doesn't just affect your energy, it impacts your revenue, decision making and long term growth. In this episode, we explore how burnout quietly shows up in your financials and what business owners can do to build healthier, more sustainable success. Our guest today is Amy Vetter, CPA, Yogi and CEO of the B3 Method Institute and author of multiple books Focus on mindful leadership, business growth and creating sustainable success. Amy helps leaders integrate mindfulness, financial clarity and intentional decision making so they can build businesses without burning out in the process. Her work helping leaders creates healthier, more sustainable business businesses. Welcome to the show, Amy.

Speaker C: Well, thank you. Glad to be here.

Speaker B: I'm excited about this conversation. I think it's really important and life is hectic and busy and you know, as women, as business owners, as moms, we're doing a lot of things and burnout is real. So I'm excited to have this conversation. I think it's important to, to know that it exists, it's real, and how we can address it.

Speaker D: Yeah, you shouldn't have to run your business in the dark when it comes to your numbers. At Willow Virtual cfo, we help business owners understand what their financials are really telling them and how to use that insight to grow with intention. The CFO Clarity Call is a focused conversation to uncover risks, opportunities and next steps without pressure and without jargon. Schedule your clarity call today@willowcfo.com contact. That's Willow CFO.com contact.

Speaker B: So let's dive right in what burnout actually looks like in a business. Can you help define burnout from a leadership business perspective?

Speaker C: Yeah. So what is interesting in the research that I do on this type of topic is that, uh, sometimes we don't think of burnout this way, but burnout happens in our highest performers. The people that are most dedicated to their work. It's because they care that they end up burning out. So when there's lack of resources, meaning people, technology, whatever it is, they take it on without speaking up many times. And if they do speak up and they're told no. They just keep doing it until they get to a point where they have exited. So we kind of look at it as in three parts where someone comes into your organization excited and totally ready to take on this role and can't wait to see what, where their career is going to go with your business. And then there's lack of resources, lack of people, or they're getting too many projects thrown on their plate at the same time. We see that so, so much right now with AI is like, keep doing everything you're doing. However, do it again with AI at the same time. And they don't necessarily have the time to do that or space to do that. So then they go to exhaustion and you start seeing them show up tired. They're talking about being tired, they're talking about being overworked, and then they exit. And so there are points in that journey where we could be taking action or being more observant of what's going on and really brainstorm with our teams of how we can help. But when we ignore it, it doesn't change the outcome of exit.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, it's just, well, and I think those high performers are only willing to take, take it for so long. Right. Because they are driven, they want to be successful, they want to work hard and see good results. And so when they hit that wall, yes, easy to say, just no, that's not for me. What do you see as, uh, some of those early warning signs that often get normalized?

Speaker C: Well, I think what gets normalized is lack of resources. And, you know, it's like, well, you know, this is the way that it is, and that's, you know, the way that it's always been. I had to go through it too. So you're hearing those kinds of answers coming to that person. However, that is the moment where you can stop and really talk about the things that would help the situation. So if you're in a professional services business, a lot of times where I see it happen so much is we're not charging enough. And so we just keep on taking more clients, more clients, more clients. And it's not necessarily profitable, but we're not adding more people as we do it. And it's creating this cycle of, um, someone just getting overworked, where it's just like work is getting piled on top and it's not necessarily the most profitable work. And so that's usually an easy place that you can attack if you're willing to of really looking at, you know, what are your Value drivers in your business and what should your pricing be based on the market today? No matter if it's a product or service, whatever it is, and it doesn't mean because you have less customers that you are doing worse. It's really about quality and it's about value. And someone will pay more if they're getting the value that they need.

Speaker B: Yes. I love that. And yeah, something as a business owner, as we talk through this, these are all things as a business owner you want to watch out for and try to figure out, hey, how do I address this if I think my team is starting to be burnt out? How can we shift that? How can I make sure they're opening up? Then we're having conversations and not just leaving, because that's easier.

Speaker C: Exactly. And so if you're on a meeting with someone and they're talking about how tired they are or, uh, how they worked all weekend or they worked till midnight last night, instead of ignoring that, is really pausing and having those conversations or maybe taking it offline after the meeting and asking what's causing that to happen? Because that's not your intention. I remember when I was a partner in a CPA firm, I used to go out to clients all day, eat dinner with my kids, and then I would start working again at 8 o'. Clock. And so there were like emails piled up and so forth. And I would send out emails at night. This is, of course, before scheduled emails. So now we do have a way around this. However, one day at a staff meeting, I kind of heard a group on the side talking about the 8 o' clock emails. And it, like, I heard it and I'm like, are they talking about me? And I walked over to them and I said, are you, Are you talking about my 8 o' clock emails? And they said, yeah. And I said, I wasn't intending for you to have to answer those. It's just when I was getting to my email and, you know, I really had to step back and think about it because the problem is that if you're a leader and you make a request on your staff, people, they're going to think they need to show you they're staying on top of it, even if that wasn't your intention for them to answer it right there. So I really had to look at my own behaviors to be able to streamline that. So I wasn't inadvertently causing something that I wasn't intending.

Speaker B: Right. Uh, yeah. And I do think that's important as far as culture within your team, because, yeah, like, you're trying to balance, right? You're like, I'm trying to work. I'm not trying to create more work for other people at this specific time. You know, you're trying to have balance. But they're seeing it as, you know, requirements. Like, now I need you to be doing this at this time. So I think it's important to have, you know, within our team. We have really good culture of we don't want you on the clock 24 7. We don't, you know, we don't need you to answer this immediately. We do need you to answer it timely. Like, we do want to have that. We don't want things just sitting around. But knowing that, hey, we are flexible, we want you to have flexibility. Don't feel like if you get an email from me at this time, you have to respond immediately. We also like to do that with our clients. Be careful about your client expectations. Don't respond to every text and email you get from them within two minutes. Because then in a month or two when you have more work, you don't, can't respond that quickly. Now they feel like they're losing something. Like, wait, you used to be so quick to respond. So we always try to, we try to look at it, like you said, from a higher perspective, like, what is the communication to the other side, the other party, and what does that mean to them? And again, we want to be timely. We, you know, that's, you know, still very important. But we can't always respond within two minutes. We can't always answer right away. Like, so just trying to make sure everybody knows that's the accepted, you know, you know, communication timeline, then everybody feels a little bit better.

Speaker C: And I think that's a key thing, is that transparency, right? Like, ah, these things have to be discussed and talked about. And what is the standard operating procedure? And not just making the assumption of what someone expects. And, you know, everyone's got a perceived reality. And so if you don't clear that up and make it like crystal clear what the expectations are of the business, these things can start happening and you don't even intend them to.

Speaker B: Yeah, very true. All right, so let's talk more about the financial cost of burnout. How does burnout show up financially inside

Speaker C: the business in huge ways. So there's been global workplace studies of the billions of dollars globally that are lost over burnout of employees. You know, it's an energy thing, right? Like, so if I showed up, uh, tired, exhausted, frustrated, I'm going to start the meeting talking about it everyone else is going to start comparing stories and now I've just taken that meeting like it's just all the energy has crushed down the meeting. So we're not even focused on what the meeting's about in the beginning because we're so focused on the lack of energy that we have and exhaustion. And then the place financially that I've seen it is that number one, when you lose team members to replace a person in your business, on average it costs one and a half to two times their salary. And uh, the reason for that is because all the time that it takes to train them, you know, so you're losing that person, you know, that you're replacing that person with. But then other people on the team have to help to get that person back up to speed and the lost time of that and ah, if you're dealing with outside customers or clients, then there's a shift in that relationship and you know that can be risky for the business as well. So it really helps with, you know, customer retention, employee retention when you're more cognizant about this and really focused on it. But it has been found overall that your revenue is going to increase when your employees are more engaged. And the biggest difference of your employees being engaged is your leaders. So you can put in all these well being programs and have really nice marketing material about it and recruiting material about it. But if the leaders don't buy into it in your business and they're not following it and so they're so, you know, like you were saying, we tell them don't work on the weekends and so forth. But if their direct line manager is, then they're going to think that's the expectation. They don't care what the leader of the business is saying. If their direct boss is not demonstrating those behaviors, when the direct boss is demonstrating those behaviors of the organization and the culture, then the business becomes more profitable because everyone's happier and they have more energy while they're at work. And we call that being fulfilled at work, right? And we've got, you know, four quadrants that we kind of look at of where a business is at. So if you imagine an access of business and balance, in that lower left hand corner there is what we call the crisis zone of low business, low balance. The company's probably not going to exist. And then we have up at the top of a high business, low balance. So you're just churning people out, you know, working them as hard as possible. But then you've got so much turnover and so Forth. But then we also have on the other side where there's businesses that go too far on balance. Right. Like everything's about being the employee, being happy, but not a focus at all on the.

Speaker B: Or enough.

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. Like oh, we don't want to upset them. So we're not going to focus on, you know, we're not going to push them too hard or, or. And there's still objectives that have to be met in an organization. So where you want to be is that crossroads of high business, high balance, that both are important in the organization and people understand the work that they do, how that levels up to the key objectives and goals of the organization. So they know their work matters, they're excited about it and they, they're fulfilled by their careers.

Speaker B: Yeah. And that's no small task.

Speaker C: No, but it's the goal, Right?

Speaker B: It's what we're shooting for. Yes, good. Exactly. Good amount of business. Everybody working, working in the same motion. Right? Mhm. Can you talk a little bit about how does mental fatigue affect financial decision making? Because I definitely think some of this burnout, like, you know, it just drains on you. And then how does that impact the financial decision making of a business?

Speaker C: Well, you're not going to be as creative and innovative when you're trying to make financial decisions about anything if you're tired and exhausted. So I always compare it in my life, like a lot of times if you push and push your brain, you just can't come up with the idea or what you need to do. But then I leave work and maybe an hour later I go running and all of a sudden I've come up with the idea without thinking about it. Right. Because I gave my brain space and I didn't keep pushing on it. And so all the research I've done on, uh, work, life balance, we are most productive two to six hours a day. The more hours we work, the more inefficiency we create in our brain because it just isn't meant for that. The other thing that we think is a thing is we can multitask, but we actually lose productivity when we multitask and we don't monotask and really focus. And so if we want to really be creative and innovative, we have to block time to do those, you know, important creative, creative activities in our business. Financial decisions that we need to make without getting disturbed by email, without getting disturbed by text messages or teams messages or whatever it is. And the research is, is that we can work on something for about 45 minutes without being interrupted and get full productivity. But then we need like a 15 minute break to let our brain release from whatever we're working on and then we can come back to it. And so we often think about breaks or doing things like that or, uh, working less hours. Like we're not a hard worker. It's actually riding with the flow instead of trying to go against it.

Speaker B: Yeah, I believe that I definitely find a more productive and efficient. If I set time aside, especially as an accounting professional, numbers are kind of my thing. But then I do a presentation and I need, you know, I need to have space to just, okay, how do I want to do this presentation? How do I want to present this? How do I, you know, what do I want the slides to look like and say. And like it's not the same. It doesn't come as quickly to me. Right. So it takes time. And so I like blocking that out and being like, okay, there's going to be no distractions. I'm going to spend an hour. And I like your 45 minute things. I usually try to say, okay, I want to spend an hour so I can make some progress. Because it takes a while to get in that mode. But I can believe and understand the, uh, you know, the taking a break is really important too. And that's important because otherwise you don't get to that next level or you can't get, you know, completely finalized with whatever you're working on because you're, you know, you get stuck. And then because a lot of us, right, we put our head down and try to work harder, work more, and that doesn't always help. So I love that, you know, you talk about taking that break and that's actually being a very good and productive, you know, worker. So that's amazing. I, uh, love that. Let's talk a little bit about those patterns. So are there financial patterns that often signal a business owner is stretched too thin? Like, what do you see most often in somebody who would probably tell you they're not burnout, but you can see the signs.

Speaker C: Yeah, well, when someone is stagnant in their business or declining.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker C: Um, you usually see that they go inward instead of outward. You know, those are the times when you do need coaches and consultants and advisors to really help you. You know, in small business that I've worked with, I find a lot of business owners are like embarrassed or they've taken money from family members or friends and this is happening. And so they're churning out because they're trying to do everything that they can to save the business, which actually just keeps making it worse.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker C: Because like I said, it's very hard to be fresh thinking and have the energy that you need if you're doing that. But then you feel guilty because you've got other people's jobs on the line or money on the line or things like that. And that's where it's really important to have like third parties or someone independent from a financial standpoint, from a legal standpoint, from a uh, subject matter expert, standard standpoint, but also a coach just on you personally. That you can't be the one with all the answers all the time. It's just impossible. And so finding those colleagues and people that understand what you do is so important. So you have a support, you know, during that. If there's not actual money put aside for, for a coach or for a consultant to come in and help you, that you've created a network online or through conferences or through networking you've done to help you through those times and make sure you're not hiding away.

Speaker B: Yeah. Because you're not alone. Everybody kind of goes through that and maybe not everybody, but most people go through that. Most business owners hit points where it's exhausting, more so than fun and, and exciting and you know, having growth. So it's, it's definitely okay to get help and find the right resources to help you get, get to that next step. Because sometimes it's just kind of that stopping point where you just need to re, kind of energize and re, establish uh, what you want to do next because you know, maybe what you initially planned isn't what's next and you need to change gears. But sometimes it's hard to see when you're uh, kind of stuck in the middle of it all.

Speaker C: Sometimes you're just in the weeds too much that it's very hard to even see what you need to do. And why? Because you're just in the details. And when someone steps back, it really can be the path of least resistance that is right in front of your face. But you just need someone to help you see it.

Speaker B: It's so obvious now. It's like one of those things like why didn't I realize that? But again, having somebody else have a different perspective can really be beneficial. So we talk kind of about the downsides and you know, the unpleasant, um, parts of burnout, which it is unpleasant. But let's talk about breaking the cycle. How can business owners create systems that reduce burnout?

Speaker C: Well, first off, and this is the most important one that you are very brutally honest with yourself. What are your own habits that you have and where did they come from? So I'll tell you. Like, in my journey, you know, When I was 16 years old, my mom lost her business, and then we lost our house, and I started working three jobs, and everything was about, like, just surviving and keeping up and contributing. Right. And I had plans for my college and everything that I wanted to be doing. So I didn't want that to fall to the wayside with all this happening. And I can look back at that time and say I started developing really bad work habits. Right? Because it was out of a, uh, need and being scared. But that fear never went away. So, you know, even if I have a job, I have side jobs. And there's always, like, a backup to a backup. Because once you see someone lose their

Speaker B: business, like, uh, scary.

Speaker C: Yeah. Like, and you've lived it, you don't want to live that again yourself. And so what I find is a lot of people blame their habits on the organization or the environment instead of really looking inward to see, am I working this way because of the organization or because of an inner need to people, please. I have trouble saying no. And where does that come from? I do have to go a few layers deeper to understand the originating belief system and how that got created and that started creating my identity. Right. I'm this really hard worker, and, you know, I'm. I'm gonna grind for you and, you

Speaker B: know, all work as many hours as you need and. All right.

Speaker C: And. And it makes you feel good that people, you know, see you as a person that they can come to and say, you know, can you work on this, Amy? And I'll say yes. You know, so those are all things I have to understand that have become my identity. And when you start trying to shift your identity to saying no to things when you're not used to saying no, you really have to start creating a mindset in your head of, um, like, why you're doing it. Right. I know when my energy is better, I show up better for myself and the people around me. So I need to remind myself that every time I look at something and say, I have no space to do it right now and talk to that person about prioritization or giving it to someone else or even delegating. Because sometimes it's not the organization, it's that I'm not delegating and I'm, uh, micromanaging. Where is that coming from? Where's the fear of losing my job coming from? So all of those things, like we see an outward behavior that we actually need to go a level deeper. And when the leadership individually does it and they start setting an example and are transparent about it, then the people underneath them feel like, oh, I get it, they're doing it, it's okay. So I can do it.

Speaker B: Yes. That's great. Yeah. I can still remember back when I was working, you know, in corporate accounting and you know, I was working tons of hours and the list never ended. Right. Didn't matter how many hours, I could have worked about 10 more hours every day. And it's still, the list doesn't end. And I remember one day my boss was like, you should leave at 5 o', clock, it's Friday. He's like, you're not going to get that much more work done. And I think that was one of like the eye opening times. And I was like, yeah, I'm probably not going to be much more productive after this. Anyway, it's Friday, I'm exhausted and so I feel like sometimes, you know, and ah, to your point, it was the leader, right? He was like, I'm not requiring you to stay. You're requiring yourself to stay for some unknown reason because you're still not going to be done in four more hours. So, you know, it's like, go home, rest up. And I think that was one of the first times I was like, oh, yeah, I might be better off going home and like being more productive when I come in instead of working, you know, weekends and then being exhausted on Monday when you get there because you've never really got a break. Whereas if you take two full days off and enjoy them, you're a little bit more like ready to go on Monday? Okay, yes, I need to reset, I'm ready to go. And so I think like you said, you have to look inward to see what are you requiring of yourself that is maybe not necessary to still be seen as a good and hard worker

Speaker C: and still, you know, value, uh, contributor.

Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. So I feel like people do have that problem and I'm sure we all have, you know, different thoughts on that on from our own personal experiences, as you shared, but definitely have experienced that myself. So thanks for sharing that. Let's talk about some practical action steps. What's one thing a business owner could do this week to assess whether burnout is affecting their business financially?

Speaker C: So it's not reporting that's going to get you right. It's actual communication and really meeting with your team members one by one. If you're setting A meeting with a staff person and you're the CEO or the leader and they're not used to getting a meeting invite from you. It's important to be transparent to the organization is like you're gonna see a meeting invite coming from me. I just wanna better understand, you know, what your day to day is like and how you feel during your work. Because we're working on our culture here, like being very transparent. You know, we know it's not always perfect, but I wanna dig in myself and um, make sure that we get the feedback that will help us and we want your input to do that. So that transparency and also that vulnerability of I'm trying to work on something, never done it before, it's going to be different, it's going to look different. I'm going to need your help to go on that path. Just doing that helps people feel like the organization is actually doing something versus just saying they're going to do something behind closed doors. And then when they come out with that six months later you're like, that didn't really solve my problem.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker C: So talking to your people is you can think, you know, but what I find when I go into organizations and do this kind of work, what you think is not what they're actually thinking because you forget what it's like to be in their shoes every day.

Speaker B: Yeah, I think one of the biggest compliments I ever hear is when our team gives us feedback to say and we get this a lot because we were based on being, you know, flexible, balanced, part time work. It's just like I couldn't deal with XYZ if I didn't have this job or if I didn't have this opportunity. Because you guys really do value, you know, flexibility and you really, you don't just say it, you actually mean it. You actually tell us, go take time with your kids because your kids are sick and we'll figure the rest out and, and things like that. And I think it's important for business owners to you know, support, be supportive of your team if that's what they need and, and, and be again, transparent. Like you said, we try to be very open about it. We, our uh, leaders take time off as needed. You know, it's everybody like the whole goal here is to try to be more flexible and more balanced so that we can avoid the whole burnout as much as possible. You know, sometimes it, it still creeps back in. But yeah, I think that's one of the biggest compliments I ever hear when they, when any of Our team members say that because it's not easy to achieve. Right. It's hard. We really have to take note of it and make sure we're talking, you know, with our team about how that works. So I really love that. So, Amy, where can people find more information about you?

Speaker C: So, on social media, I'm Amy Vetter, CPA. On every social platform, I have a website, amyvetter.com and for all of our learning and courses and coaching, that's business balance. Bliss.com I love it.

Speaker B: You help people get it. I love that. And if you're looking for more information For Willow Virtual CFO, you can find us@willow cfo.com we have a website and we have a link to our podcast, Cultivating Business Growth. So check out other episodes there. If you found this episode helpful, share it with another business owner who's in the messy middle of growth. Scaling isn't just about more revenue. It's about building something that lasts. Keep that momentum, um, going, and we will see you next time.

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