#543 - Leadership Lessons, with David Pate

Speaker A: What kind of leadership lessons can you pick up working at a summer camp? We're going to talk about it on today's episode. We have the David Pate on the podcast today. He runs Brook Hill Ranch, a summer camp down in Hot Springs, Arkansas. And over the past almost three decades, he's not only been leading kids to have an amazing time at summer camp, but more importantly, as the executive director of the camp, he has been managing and leading a staff of, of what's grown to be maybe almost 100 people at the camp each summer. We talk leadership and all the lessons that come with it on today's podcast. But before we dive in, here's a word from one of the incredible businesses that sponsored today's episode.

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Speaker A: David Pate on the podcast. This is like childhood hero on the show today. Hello.

Speaker C: Hey, Blake. I'm so honored to be here, man. I just, you know, I love the good advice podcast. Was binging some more on my way here. I know I shared some stories with you.

Speaker A: Yeah, you you did some deep cuts, deep lore cuts on the show. Um, well, David, it's so great to have you on the show. Obviously the listeners have. Have listened to the intro to the podcast episode, but I do want to and, um, really reaffirm how special it is to have you on the show. Um, I have known David for, man, ah, like 30 years. Wow. Since David was my camp counselor back in the day. And, um, you know, David, you've, You've grown a. An incredible camp. Uh, Brook Hill Ranch summer camp. Um, you know, we, We. We have like our little nook of nwa and a lot of people don't know what else is going on outside of the, um. Brook Hill Ranch was absolutely, um, deeply defining in terms of my expertise, in terms of how I see things and my approach to business and life and leadership. And without being too long winded, it's just funny people who, um, ask about my background, and it always comes back to this summer camp that I worked at on a ranch with no ac. Even though you have AC now, I won't get into that. But all that to say, um, man, it's such an honor to have you on the show, so I appreciate making the time.

Speaker C: Absolutely. Well, it's. It's an honor to be here, Blake. And I'm just so proud, um, you know, to see anything that our campers or former colleagues are doing. You know, our. One of our external. Our external values are seen protected and developed. And you know, one of the things that we like to say about our summer camp, which, you know, we've been in. In business over 60 years now, third generation, which, you know the stats. Right. That 94% don't make it to the third generation.

Speaker A: Ye.

Speaker C: Um, but, you know, that developed piece of our external values is we don't want to be an experience camp. We want to be a place that we come just like guys like you, you know, girls like your wife, who started in the third grade and over time developed, you know, from responsibility into leadership. And, you know, by the time they leave, you know, one of the things so proud of. I remember, you know, when you worked at school, you got teacher of the year, like your first year. And it didn't surprise because of the development we, uh, had seen in your life. And we were, we just wanted to be a small part of that.

Speaker A: Yeah, clarify. I got nominated. I. I think I was like, runner up. So we were just talking about things that get that, like, circulate, that you get in trouble for. So I just. For the one, uh, you have a Podcast also.

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker A: But you learn over time that there are people who hate. Watch your content. Like, they comment, and they're very openly. They hate you openly. And so you're like, why do you. Why do you listen to the podcast? But all this to say, I know that would be a data point of someone, like, in their basement looking up, like, records. And I don't see a teacher of

Speaker C: the year here, one of the teachers in Houston that you used to work at.

Speaker A: So he was.

Speaker C: He was actually nominated. I guess I'm gonna take down that episode. Blake Ben's teacher of the Year for my podcast.

Speaker A: You. Never mind. I won't get into some of these other random segues, but, um, you know, it's. I love you mentioning the value, by the way, because that was something just really interesting to me. I had done a couple other camps before I did Brookhill. Um, and I hated. I hated summer camp. I really, um. I thought it was just the worst thing. And I had a friend of mine who invited me to Brook Hill. I was in fifth grade, and, um, I. It was pretty much like, this is the one last time I'm gonna try this. Um, because I'd done three years elsewhere, and, um. Dude changed my life. You know what's funny is exactly what you just said. Seeing.

Speaker B: What was it?

Speaker C: Seen, protected and developed?

Speaker A: Uh, that was. That was. The secret sauce for me was. I don't know how big camp is now, but I think back then maybe like, 200, 250 kids. But I felt like I was an individual, individually seen. And I was like, this place is different. This is special.

Speaker C: It's everything. Uh, and it doesn't matter what business you have. Everybody wants to be special. You know, down the road from us, there's this hibachi place. And, um, the guy that. That owns. His name is Eddie. Eddie son. And Eddie is amazing. He works the regist. In fact, I called up there the other day, and he said, you know, hello, David. And, uh, I said, hey, Eddie. Um, I told him, your usual order. I mean, he knows my usual order. I mean, you want to be seen. And he even said. He said, you, wife Lisa is here. You want her to pay and bring it home. And I was like, I had no idea she was there. Yes, Eddie, make her pay and bring it home. But he sees me, right? And I don't care where you're at, what business you're in, Everybody wants to feel special. That's the secret sauce.

Speaker A: Yeah, Right?

Speaker C: It doesn't matter if it's a camp or. Or what. It is. You know, you want to feel like they're putting you at the special table at the restaurant. You want to feel like they're taking care of you at the car dealership. You want to feel like your electrician answers the phone when you call. Right.

Speaker A: You know, it's really interesting and I'm excited to get in this conversation today because I feel like, you know, David, uh, you, you didn't have a business background. Like, you didn't get like a business degree or. Because I can't remember, uh, even before Brookhill. Um, you know, something I really like about you is that you've built Brook Hill literally learning how to do business. And so I'm excited to like, dig into some of these concepts. But what you were just saying is so interesting to me because I feel like if 98% of businesses could just grab onto this concept. Like, it drives me crazy when I call someone. Like, I'll have cash in hand ready to make a purchase and I can't get anybody to answer the phone. And I'm thinking, like, what's like, I need to buy a, uh, new set of tires. Thousand dollar expense. I was ready to buy it. I put it on Facebook. Who should I call? And I had three or four comments that were like, call these people. Called them three times. Nobody answered. So I just. Not even a, not even a, you know, line hold. It was literally nobody. And then someone else said, hey, call this person. They'll give you, they'll help you out. And they came and picked me up and took me back home until the tires were done. Um, it blows my mind that people don't understand this basic principle in business.

Speaker C: You know, I think streamlining becomes our number one focus. And I think anytime you streamline customer service, that's dangerous, you know, and because everybody wants to speak to someone that care. I mean, it goes back to being seen. But, you know, I think we've streamlined away customer. I think customer service service is. It's the new magic wand.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker C: I think Chick Fil a has shown us that. You know, I don't know if we're supposed to name all these businesses on the pod, but we are very open

Speaker A: lovers of Chick Fil A on podcast.

Speaker C: Okay. There's a business in, uh, central Arkansas. I think it's made its way up here. Splash Car Wash.

Speaker A: Uh, yeah.

Speaker C: And their, their kids actually go to our camp. And um, they're just, they're. They've. It's the Chick Fil A way. And you're starting to see people Go. Oh, customer service. It's like it's coming back with just some of the Dave's burgers. Don't even know if you have Dave's burger. That's a big.

Speaker A: You have a relative. CJ's burgers. Okay. Same family.

Speaker C: Same family.

Speaker A: Great burgers, by the way.

Speaker C: Burgers.

Speaker A: Ah.

Speaker C: But it's always welcome to Dave's or welcome to CJ's. And, you know, it's all about customer service, and that's what creates that retention. Right. It creates people coming back. Um, and. And I think it's culture. And. And I think we know we need culture internally when we work with our teams. Uh, it doesn't mean we're perfect at. It doesn't mean we don't need to grow in that. But I think we forget there's a culture with our customers. Right. There's a legacy. You know, legacy is what you're known for, and everybody has a legacy, good or bad. You know, it's the Google review now or whatever it is. Um, but, uh, you know, it's so important that we build that rapport.

Speaker A: And.

Speaker C: And that's what you felt, right, from your counselors? Uh, hopefully it was, you know, hopefully. I get. I gave that, um, you know, it's.

Speaker A: You're employing people and see if different experiences. And I did have a counselor one time that I ran into Fazoli's, who's working the cash register, and I was like, what are you doing here? And then I realized, oh, uh, they don't just live at Brookhill.

Speaker C: That's right.

Speaker A: All year long. But it is funny, though, because I. I was. I was speaking at an event this morning, and you mentioned Chick Fil? A. We've, uh, talked about the Chick Fil? A a lot on the podcast. And, um, you know, there was. There's a story that I've shared about a customer lost their phone, they dropped it in the store in the storm drain, and the Chick Fil? A employee pulled the man cover off and went down and got it. Like, I mean, let's be real.

Speaker C: Unbelievable.

Speaker A: Do you think the McDonald's person is gonna. I mean, probably not. Probably not, probably not. And then, um, the latest thing today that I was looking at was, um, um, Jansen. Nash texted me this, uh, yesterday, a picture of a notice on a Chick Fil A door that said, um, a note on pennies, and it said, we're gonna round down on all orders just to put a few more. I mean, it's nothing. It's nothing.

Speaker C: And everybody else is rounding Exactly.

Speaker A: And what's funny is, as I was doing my research on this, I found another business that had their window taking a picture of that said, it is your responsibility to have the exact change, otherwise we're going to round up to the nearest nickel. It's just two different, Two different ways to do business.

Speaker C: So what, you know, what's your goal? Is your goal to bring customers back or is it to win $0.03? Mhm. Right. I mean, that's what we're talking about, right?

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: And. And the value of $0.03 is not what it. What it used to be and it. But it's the gesture. Mhm. It's. What are you saying with that notice up there? You know, you're saying we're about us first and you second. And I think when you're customers first.

Speaker A: Uh-huh.

Speaker C: You're going to bring them back. And I've heard you say that on the podcast, that it's all about the long term retention.

Speaker A: You got to play the long game.

Speaker C: You got to play the long game.

Speaker A: You know, it's funny too, because, um, thinking about when I worked at Brook Hill, uh, I mean, all of our staff meetings were all about the individual camper. You know, it was, I mean, and there were like process conversations. You know, hey, this was, this was probably not. We had a counselor one time who I think a kid, like, lost a tooth and the counselor just like tossed it and was like, well, toots out. And I remember, um, you know, one of the leaders of the camp was like, hey, you know, if Dennis can put that back, like, so we're have a new process. We're not going to throw loose teeth out into the lake. But beyond, like the nitty gritty stuff, I mean, so many conversations on the one which I think made it so special. Um, and what I've noticed too, I don't know if you see this in business, but it seems like a lot of businesses talk a lot about their customer service, but they don't actually have great customer service. So they know it, but they're not always walking it out.

Speaker C: I heard this. Um, I think it was just today on Instagram. I think it's Simon Sinek. And he said, culture is what you write down, plus what you live out. You know, and so we can write down that customer service is one of our values. I don't know if he said culture, if he said values is what you write down plus what you live out. But, you know, if you're not living it out, it's just something you put in the break room or it's just something that you put in an email to everybody. But what you really value is what you actually live out every day. Um, and in our summer camp, it is that, you know, do you know everybody's name in your cabin? Right. I mean, that was one of our foundational things. And I think that's a challenge to, you know, do you know your customers? Right. Are we just going for the sellers or are we going for the relationship?

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker C: Because it's going to draw them back every time. In fact, I had a friend of mine who, um, he was in the excavation business and man, I'm not going to name the different companies out there, but there was a certain company that had really fallen down on their customer service. They got rid of all of those machines and went with another product. The product they went with just wasn't the quality. And so they were really frustrated when those machines start falling apart. But that company that had disappointed them in the beginning came back around, gave them a phone call and said, hey, I know you used to be with us. I want you to know our culture has changed. I know you had a bad experience. I know that's why you had to have closed the door on our relationship. But we would love the opportunity to win you back. Our values have changed. And of course we know where those values come from. They come from the leader. And the bottom line is the leadership had changed, the CEO had changed. Right. The president of the company had changed and they won that man back and he became one of their top customers. Just because of a phone call, I guess.

Speaker A: What? And we talked about this a lot on the show. This seems so basic, you know what I'm saying? It seems so basic. And I guess it surprises me that so many businesses don't get it. Do you have any?

Speaker C: I mean, absolutely. I think it's a couple things. These are just totally my theories. Right. The first thing is I think we get so focused on OP X, right? Operationally executing things. It's the day to day, hey, we're, you know, basically culture is second and we got to get stuff done and we get busy. We're a busy culture. Right. I think that is first and maybe that's an excuse. But I think number two, I think people who are good in the business get promoted because they were good at the thing. Okay. And so then, hey, you're really good at the thing. You're a great teacher, so you should be the principal. Right? Um, you were great in sales. So we're going to Put you over the team doesn't mean they've ever led. And so here's what we do. I think we give leaders titles.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: And we don't give them tools. Right. If you're going to be an electrician, what's the first thing they're going to give you?

Speaker A: I don't know anything about.

Speaker C: Well, they're going to give you tools,

Speaker A: but I don't know what specific random Instagram reels of someone using a doohickey. I'm like, I like that. I should get that.

Speaker C: Dana.

Speaker A: I don't know what it is.

Speaker C: You know, hey, at summer camp, we're going to teach you how to operate the go karts. Right?

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker C: Um, but we also gave you a title of you're a leader over people. Yeah. And the problem is, is leaders get titles and they don't get tools.

Speaker A: That's right.

Speaker C: And so, you know, unless you happen to work for a company where the leader was just amazing and sometimes, sometimes the lead, the leader was amazing, but they were just natural and they didn't even know. Yeah. They naturally operated the tools. Right.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: But, but you know, for us, we're really big into values based leadership. You know, you, you have your mission statement and you have your internal values and your external values. And you, your internal values is how we're going to work culturally in the background. Right. As a team. Then your external is how we treat the customers and, and what we're going to sell. And. But, but, you know, unless you're given those tools, I think what we focus on is how do we fix the leak under the sink. If you're in the plumbing business. Right. We focus on our processes. Like you're talking about, okay, what a customer calls. This is how we go out and this is how we do. But if you don't teach how to actually lead, you know, I felt like I was a good leader because I cared for people, and I think caring for people is important. But there's more than that. How do you communicate? Hey, are you letting things go? Hey. Uh, you know, I just like to connect with people. I like to be the fun leader. And so I let things go and I hope this is going to get better. But we both know things don't get better on their own. In fact, problems don't shrink, they grow. Right. Well, if you don't have the tools on how to have a courageous conversation, if you don't have the tools to know why somebody might be going, hey, I'm going to keep firing people, I'm trying To find the right people, when the right people are probably sitting in front of you. They just need to be developed. But I don't know how to develop people because. Seems like they're flawed because they're imperfect. Right. These are all those tools.

Speaker A: Yeah. I had a, uh, um, potential customer one time who came to me. Um, she had 12 employees. She had lost all of them in the last year. They'd all turned over in the last year. And, um, she may. Nowadays, this is great, because that situation is not great, but nowadays, everyone rips on Gen Z. Millennials aren't in the limelight anymore.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker A: But this is part of M. Probably five, six years ago. And, um, we were talking about it, and I, um, said, yeah, so what do you think's going on? And she goes, I mean, millennials are just so lazy. They're just so tough to work with. Like, I don't know what to do. And, um. Which was funny, because I'm a millennial. But I remember I. I thought for a second, I said, you know, when one person leaves, that can be true, but when your whole team quits and. And people are averse to change. So for everyone to quit in one year, it's gotta be bad. It's got to be real bad. So I said, hey, usually when an entire team quits, it's not the team, it's usually the boss. And, man, she was offended. I mean, she literally was like, if you're telling me it's my fault, we're never going to do business together.

Speaker C: Which.

Speaker A: Which is great, because you don't want to do business with that kind of person anyway.

Speaker C: Right? They don't have values.

Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, that's what I think of, though, when you. When you share that is just. You know, some people have a really hard time with that personal. Like looking in the window or, excuse me, in the mirror, in realizing it's me, I'm the problem.

Speaker C: I heard this one time, a guy was teaching on leadership, and he brought out a compact mirror and he gave it to everybody. Said, I got a gift for all of you in here. And he said, I've got some, uh, some great news and some bad news. He said inside that if you open that, which we kind of knew what it was. If you open that up inside there, you're going to see the answer to all your problems. But he said, you're also going to see the answer to all your solutions, he said, because, he said, write this down. It's the leader. It's the leader. It's the Leader.

Speaker A: Yeah, Gallup, uh, major, um, statistically driven, survey driven, massive company. They're known by their, their data. Uh, they released a book five years ago, six years ago, that basically summarized all of their findings on retention. Which by the way, retention is a multi billion dollar, um, difference in businesses. Like the cost to replace an employee is something like. At the time, I think the Department of Labor said it was something like 1.5 the annual salary. So you're going to spend a year and then another half a year finding someone and then training them to fill those shoes and hoping they're a culture fit too, by the way. So it's a massive industry, massive problem to get solved. So they released a book in late 20, 19 I think it was. And it's three words. It's the Manager. That's it. And it's, you know, one of those books where every chapter is like, it's still the manager, but it's overwhelming the data.

Speaker C: It's so true. And I love the book. I don't know if you read the book. It's yous Ship, uh, by Captain Michael Arbitrov. You, you gotta read it. He took the worst ship in the Navy, had. I don't know what the statistics were on how much turnover there was, but you know, it was a real joke when they switched the captains over from the other guy to. And everybody's laughing, they're glad to see this guy go, he took it from last to first.

Speaker A: Wow.

Speaker C: And they would, they would train everybody, you know, because you're, you're a ship out at sea. Everybody's got to be able to do three or four jobs, right? You know, it's like, okay, you got a guy here, we need a first place, a second place, a third place. They said their fourth level deep in a position would be better than some other ship's first level. And he, they had some 90 something percent retention rate on under him. The same ship, same generation of people. The difference was he went from command and control to connection based. You know, they wouldn't do officers lunch table and enlist. You know what? No. And he would say, we stand in line just like everybody else. And we eat with the men just like everybody else. We wait for a table just like everyone else. And he basically would say, hey, it's your ship.

Speaker A: Ship.

Speaker C: You know, they would come to him like it was his ship. And he said, no, no, no, no, it's your ship. What do you think we should do? And I mean just, he was the whisper. It's, it's a beautiful Book. I mean you could read it in one setting. He's just so good at what he does. Um, but you know, he, he teaches the tools of leadership. It just doesn't happen to, to, to go from, from last to first. It was incredible what he did.

Speaker A: So take me back, you know.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Brook Hill is obviously amazing. I know you're doing some stuff on the side too, with just leadership and um, you know, obviously so many great things that you have a hand in. Um, take me back to. I mean your position has changed a lot and it's had phases. You know, camp counselor, um, and, and, and forgive me, by the way, I, I didn't do like a full bio right up here. Your cv. I don't have it in front of me. Um, but you know, camp counselor, um, ah, assistant camp director, running Brook Hill. Uh, now. I mean, Brook Hill is so substantial. So when, I mean just, just none of this really matters for the listeners, but like data points. I think when I was there it was a staff of maybe like 27 or 28. I'm pretty sure it's like 50 or 60 now or.

Speaker C: Yeah, it's 60.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker C: We hire 60 full, uh, time during the summer and then we have 15 that are all year.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: So we have 75.

Speaker A: Which by the way, was not the day camp was done. It was, you know, we had one secretary, somebody to answer your email even.

Speaker C: The administration didn't work there full time. We all had to be coaches and teachers.

Speaker A: So, so this has, you know, and we're not going to get into specifics of like revenue or anything like that, but you know, it's, it's a, you know, I have to presume, multi million dollar, you know, massively. It's grown substantially even in. Gosh, I think it's probably, I think it's been about 10, maybe 15 years since I've been there, but especially over the last 20, 30 years. And you're, your, your involvement absolutely has spanned, I'm sure about 30 years, if not more. Uh, but to now it's a massive institution. You know, does a great job. When, when you look back, like, how did you figure out business? Like, you're so confident and, and, and you're, and here's what I love about you too is you're pointing to so many like tried and true principles, like values based leadership. Like, dude, what was your journey like? Like, do you remember like a time when you were like, what am I doing?

Speaker C: Oh, for sure I remember. You know, we're third generation. Like I said, I remember when the second generation handed it to us, it was in 20, uh, 18. And you know, from about 2012 to 2018, I had been the administrator of it, right. I'd run all the front end stuff, but never the back end stuff, the business side. And the first day that, uh, which is. Is a fun story in and of itself. My, uh, father in law called us in and said, hey, I meet with you. And I was like, cool. You know, I was remodeling a house that day. I think I was running a pressure washer. And he called and said, hey, we want to meet with you. And. Cool. Okay. I'm, um, kind of busy. Yeah, it's important. Okay. So we run over there, and he goes, hey, uh, you're going to run Brook Hill? We're stepping down. Okay, cool. Uh, all right. Can't. Uh, brochures just went out. Uh, camp just started. Um, I have no idea what I'm doing. First call was I called a buddy, you know, because this. Who. Who's the smartest person in the room?

Speaker A: Room.

Speaker C: Smartest person in the room is the room. You gotta surround yourself with people that are smarter than you, and you have to be able to say, I don't know what I'm doing. First thing, I call one of my best friends, uh, Sean o', Keane, runs, uh, an excavation company today. And I mean, we had like a three hour lunch, and I was like, uh, hey, what do I do? And he just began to lay out. Just, you know, I knew how to run camp, but didn't know, you know, what's a budget look like? You know, how do you forecast over the next 10 years? You know, we had been a company over 50 years at that point, and we had, uh, just, uh, aging infrastructure. Right. And so you saw things falling apart. And I was like, you know, hey, man, I'm kind of looking at the bottom line here. I don't think we can upgrade anything, but we're falling apart. And you just begin to lay out, here's what you do. And so, you know, you got to start where you're at. And then, of course, two years later, uh, Covid hit in 2020. And that was when I had decided that I, uh, was going to apparently have a three year run and crash the, uh, third generation. I was pretty convinced I lost my hair. Um, but, you know, honestly, Blake, it's through a crisis that you learn the most. It's through difficult times that you put policies in place that you were too lazy to put in place. Because especially in our company, this is the way we've always done it. And sometimes the way you've always done it can bury you. And not that you, not that you don't ever want to lose the vision of why you started what you started. But processes always have to change. And if you hold on to the vision and hold on to the processes, I don't know that you can sustain because things are always changing. And so, you know, for me, it was a cry for help to as. And I was willing to listen to anybody, um, who showed me the fruit. Right?

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: Show me, you know, if you're growing in. And I had a lot of meetings. And honestly, I feel like, Blake, I have more meetings today to learn. I spent all last weekend learning from three business leaders and just, I just sat there, listened, right? Just ask questions. The greatest leaders are professional question askers. It's actually a quote from Craig Groeschel. Um, but you got to ask a lot of questions. But I think it's ego, right? Ego gets in the way of, of, you know, I gotta prove to everybody how important I am. And I think, um, that's a recipe for disaster.

Speaker A: And just even, like, I feel like in entrepreneurial circles, um, looking like you have it all figured out. And I just, I try to like, really not be that person, which is a little ironic because I have a podcast on here's what you do. Um, but, you know, I take my legs like anybody else, and I had someone call me the other day for, um, Google Ads help and said, I'm really stuck. Can you help me with this customer? Like, they're at the point that they're about to ask for their money back. And I said, here's the deal. I do not know anything. I'm really good at spending money on Google Ads. I've probably spent 15k of other people's money and I don't sell it anymore for the reason that I'm not good at it. But here's what I can do. I don't want your customer to be upset. Why don't we both sit down, let's go through it together.

Speaker C: Together.

Speaker A: Let's see if we can figure this out together. Which we, we couldn't. It turns out the two people who don't know what they're doing were not able. They were not, you know, find the two blind squirrels finding the nut. But I will say in entrepreneurial circle, there's a lot of not, um, virtue signaling, not that word, but just like, showing, like walk, I guess, talking the talk and not necessarily walking it, unfortunately,

Speaker C: you know, I think it comes down to a worthiness issue. You right? And worthiness can look very, um, diff. It can look like ego or it can look like insecurity.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: And, uh, my mentor, if I give a shout out to Larry Mills, uh, from the San Antonio spurs, he says, um, he. He said, you got to walk in freedom where you have nothing to hide, nothing to prove. I'm no longer a victim of my circumstances. I'm okay, you're okay. Now let's figure this thing out together. But, you know, when you're walking in unworthiness, I have to put on a show. You said it a couple episodes ago. If you haven't listened to the good advice podcast on social media, go back. No, um, little shout out to you there, Blake, but no, you really said it. I think we've become this, the social media culture. And so I have to put on a front. I have to look a certain way. Um, instead of just being honest, you know, when a customer leaves a bad review, be honest. Either thank them for the feedback or, you know, or whatever. You know, it's the people that don't tell you the truth, that don't allow you to grow.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker C: It's the people that'll be honest. Hey, you're not good at this. And to call and admit the mistake and say, mate, you're right, I missed it on that. And I wanted to grow from that. But ego puts up the shield and, you know, has to look a certain way. But, you know, what do you want? You want empty ego or do you want genuine results? I think your customers would tell you they want genuine results.

Speaker A: Then I think about too, in terms of, like, the Personas people have, but also just like the advice that's out there. Um, you know, one of the things you mentioned a second ago was, um, that's the way we've always done it. And I think, I think people think that that advice, like, it's so blatant in the sense of, like, oh, like, we always punch the customer in the face. That's what we've always done. It's almost like, well, that sounds like it's pretty bad. And what I love about your story, though, is having been to Brook Hill, and I don't, I don't know the details of this, by the way. We haven't. Dave and I haven't talked about what processes you changed, but I do wonder if there were things that some of these things are so entrenched in the culture that when you start to change it, uh, there's pushback of like, well, that's not Brookhill. Even though it's like, well, man, I'm really like, walk me through that. Like, having to move in a certain direction. And obviously not that you had, like, massive drama around it, but even, like, internally, like, we're moving a certain way, even though that hasn't been what we've been like before.

Speaker C: Yeah. And that comes down to messaging, you know, messaging with your customers, messaging with your staff. Um, we are constantly asking ourselves, what is Brook Hill? Is Brook Hill a building? Is it a tradition? Um, or is it the fun connection in Jesus with us being a faith based, um, summer camp? You know, And I always tell them, as long as we're not. Not changing, um, you know, who we are. Who we are is not a building. Who we are. You know, a great example. If you remember, we used to hand every camper a folder. You know, when you got to camp, you got the folder anymore, no folders.

Speaker B: What?

Speaker C: And I got to tell you how this happens.

Speaker A: Do you have like, smart? Is it like Disney rides? Like, you have your.

Speaker C: It's actually just on the back of the name tag. Right, right.

Speaker A: Because what a wild concept.

Speaker C: It's a wild concept.

Speaker A: Funny how this is so obvious in hindsight. I didn't know notice, by the way.

Speaker C: Yeah. Hey, hey, kids. We want you to carry around basically a three ring binder at summer camp when you're riding Go karts.

Speaker A: We have. We have eight year olds and they were younger now, right?

Speaker C: We do. We have second grade now.

Speaker A: Second graders, don't lose your three ring binder, please, at a summer camp that you're riding.

Speaker C: And then we would, We. We would. We would have this, like, reward system to where, you know, if you lost it, we'd call your name from the stage. It's like we created all of those problems.

Speaker A: Right? Yeah, that's right.

Speaker C: You know, and I tell you how this happened. This is great. It's a beautiful story. Story. So we're sitting around, you know, and typically most of our staff has been through our program. I mean, I mean, like 99.9%, but we had hired somebody to answer the phones. She had never been to Brook Hill, which. Which was kind of a disaster in and of itself. I'm not calling her out at all. I'm, um, not. She was great. She was this a sweetheart. But, you know, we'd be sitting at staff meetings. She had no clue what was going on. It's kind of like, uh, our current. Our. Our current camp director, if you remember his first year on staff, he's like, you know, what uniform do we wear? And remember, everybody was like, gosh, it's the red T shirt. Come on, guys.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: But anyway, we were sitting in a staff meeting. We were trying to figure out how to make budget, and she was looking at it, and we were trying to do this team thing, and she said, you know, we're spending $10,000 a year on these notebooks. How many kids really, uh, pass off awards and how many activities? And at first, you know, everybody just stared at her and, you know, hey, be quiet. How dare you?

Speaker A: Hey, who are you?

Speaker C: Never been here. You don't know anything. Be quiet. And as the more marinated on what she said, we realized, you know what? I guess it's only a couple of activities. You know, I guess we could just have handouts that we passed out. If it was in those words, you know, you just saved us $10,000. Right. But if you're not willing to listen to people, uh, I mean, come on. Ego says, who are you, uh, to speak up in staff meeting? And one of the things that I always try and tell our team is all the powers at the top, but all the intelligence is at the bottom. Right. Because you and I were both campers, Blake, but I'm 45 years old. It's been a while.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: And so now I got the budgetary power to buy things or whatever. You know, like, if we go to rent, renovate, uh, to renovate a restroom, you know, I may think, hey, it's more, uh, sinks that we need. And they may say, hey, no, we need more showers or whatever. And I have to go ask the campers and the counselors that instead of assuming, well, I'm in charge, what, you know, my ego, what, you know, know, and that's how we've made some of those decisions, is, hey, everybody has a seat at the table. And when you give that culture, when. When you give people permission in your culture to do that, it's amazing the wisdom that comes up. And. And, you know, right. Yesterday's great idea is today's bad idea. And, uh, And. And, you know, sometimes they'll ask who came up with that? And I was like, yeah, that was me. It was great at the time, but I can see now how you bring that up that that was a really

Speaker A: bad idea, you know, and there. There's merit there to, like, the concept of, like, agility and, you know, being willing to take sunk costs. You know, I think sometimes. I think sometimes in organizations, leaders especially, um, are averse to change and then they try something and it doesn't work. Which for the average, for our listeners, I mean, like nine times, nine times out of ten, it's not going to work the way you thought it would. But they take that as a sign of, like, see, we shouldn't have even, we shouldn't have even spent that money. We shouldn't. This was a huge disaster. Uh, but they missed the opportunity because they're so. They, they don't realize there's like an iterative process to all of this.

Speaker C: Yeah, I think progress over perfection. Just talking about this the other day in a staff meeting, and I've got some amazing people on our team, and they, they just want to do it perfect. And I said, I love that. That's a beautiful heart, but let's fail. Forward fast, right? Let, let, let's, let's go ahead and go after it. And, you know, sometimes the vision isn't going to be perfect. Um, you know, we changed a process this last year in how we, uh, custodial position and how we did that in house. And, you know, it didn't go right the half the summer. And I said, hey, why don't we revisit, uh, that? You know, why don't we come back in? And, you know, what I found was it wasn't the idea, it was my inability to communicate. And I said, guys, this was totally my fault. And I began to share more vision on it, and they went out and killed it. And I said, you know, when we pioneer something, we're not, not going to get it 100% right, because it's theory. And so I think it's so important that we're willing to change and pivot. And when it doesn't look perfect right at first, don't second guess yourself. Keep growing, keep changing, keep getting there. Because that intuition as a leader is probably right. Um, being comfortable, I think, is the most dangerous thing we can do right the way we've always done it. And comfort, I think, is a safety net for a lot of us, especially in a business that's been around a long time. In one of my mentors, he said, david, you have to be willing every couple of years to blow it up. He said, not the vision, but the process. He said, don't get married to the process. Stay married to the vision. And I always try and keep that in there because, uh, you did a podcast on AI and things are going to. They're disruptors. Disruptors are coming in and we can fight against them. And sometimes for the detriment or we can figure out how do we adapt, um, and continue to stay rolling.

Speaker A: You know, I think, I think honestly, that's kind of my lynchpin argument with AI, you know, because it's funny. It's funny like these things that come up on the podcast where I feel like I keep. And I only do this because I get people who get mad and they, again, they, they send the email. You know, I, I did a episode on, um, on employee outcomes, and I said, hey, you know, it's, it's not really sexy to say, but nine times out of 10, what you pay your people will be tied to the kind of productivity better or worse. And, uh, someone write me an email and said, I didn't know you became a socialist. And I was like, oh, okay, cool. I, you know, literally the podcast was just, you know, pay your people well according to, like, their outcomes. But anyway, so with AI, what is

Speaker C: this email I want to send? I want to send some of these bad emails to you.

Speaker A: I like this, I will say this random segue. It reminds me of you called me years ago. I had been gone from Brookhill for probably five or six years. And, um, you called me because Brookhill had gotten a bad review and they named me in the review. And you were like, do you think they know you don't work here anymore? It's like, I, I guess I just can't escape it. But anyway, um, you know, the thing about AI, I love AI in concept. I really do. And I feel like my, like I said, my linchpin complaint against it is getting comfortable. And um, these one trick pro, one trick pony processes of like, here's a great example. Um, great sales is connection. And especially like for you, you know, kids coming back the next year for camp, it's because the kids had a connection. The mom and dad, they see the fruit of it, they feel a connection to the summer camp and they're like, of course we're going to come back next year. And then even now you have these other events that weren't around when I was, um, of. Of the age to go like the team lead, I think you mentioned there now there's other opportunities for people to spend money.

Speaker B: Money.

Speaker A: And sure enough, because the connection is there, it's like, yes, let's do that. So I think my issue is I saw this floating around the other day of like, it was like, hey, are you having a hard time with sales? Just put this prompt into chat GPT and it will write your sales letters for you. Now the other part of this that I'm really critical of is like then it, this whole thing ends with you know, this has made me X amount of dollars in only a few weeks. And I'm like, no, it's didn't. But, but that's, you know, we're, we're so addicted to like the silver bullet, the comfortable, the easy process that will look right now it's AI 10 years from now it'll be something else. But we're always chasing that.

Speaker C: I feel like, yeah, it's all, yeah. How do I become very successful doing no work? Right. Never says no. Like that's not how. And that's what I think. You know, it's, it's the false narrative. Well, it's probably social media, right. We see other people and they put out stuff like that. Yeah. And you can know it's not true. That's never. I don't care, I really, I really don't care what new invention's going to come out there. You know, so it was the, the pickaxe and the shovel and they came out with a bulldozer. There's still work being done.

Speaker A: That's right.

Speaker C: We're just doing more work faster. But it's not like we only now that we have a bulldozer, we work one hour a day and go home. Right. And I think it's just human nature. We as people want to do less and get m more for that. It doesn't mean you're not streamlining. It doesn't mean that you don't go from, you know, what, 16 hour days and you're able to get it back down to 10 hour days. Right. So that's beautiful. Yeah, that's beautiful when we're able to streamline processes. But uh, I just think we have to have the balance to understand that the goal isn't to do nothing. Right. The goal is just not to be completely stressed out. It's, you know, and so how can this be a tool? Um, and, but you know, you know how it is. It's, it's the scarcity mindset versus the abundance mindset. I've heard you say, I've heard so many of my mentors say it, um, scarcity sells, right. It's, it's the fear that sells that is going to take away all the jobs. And it's like when in the history of the world has that ever happened, happened?

Speaker A: Well, it's interesting too, like even from like a sales perspective, um, and also leadership in terms of like nobody wants to work anymore. I have a friend of Mine, Todd Capone, who, um, published a great book called the Transparency Sale. And his whole, his whole thing is when you're selling, a lot of people sell with like this big song and dance and then they like, oh, and by the way, you can have this for. And his whole motto is, hey, we're sitting down for a conversation on buying this. And I typically sell it at this price point. Is that something? Are we, are we having the right conversation and just leading with that transparency? And, uh, he has another book, by the way, for our listeners called the Four Levers that he just published. It's a great book. Anyway, um, I just gave that whole spiel. What were we just talking about? Remember what we were just saying? Uh, I even told you I don't edit anything in a show. And now I'm like, well, this is

Speaker C: perfect because people would rather follow someone who's real than right all the time. Greg Groell says, um, yeah, I mean, we, we were just talking about AI and how we, you know, we, we wanted to do everything for us.

Speaker A: Right? I mean, you know, bottom line, what.

Speaker C: I'm sure you're going to say something really brilliant. Um, you know, save that for the next. This is a hook for the next episode.

Speaker A: Yeah, it was going to be viral, but, you know, I mean, whatever, whatever it is. It's just funny to me, going back to your comment on like, people don't want to work. Oh, that's what it was. Actually funny enough. Um, one of the things he shares about is the history of sales. And he's a huge history person, but he has like, newspaper clippings from like a hundred years ago, and you have people 100 years ago saying, nobody wants to work anymore. Not even just that. But like, um, sales, uh, will never be the same because of like, whatever the latest thing is. And so it's funny that like, whatever is like the scarcity thing, like the buzz headline. It's the same thing that's been said for the last century and probably more even before publication. So, like you said, it's not nothing new. That was my long winded way of saying, yeah, you're right.

Speaker C: It's the same headlines. It just may be on Facebook instead of in print. Right. Uh, we may have nicer cars now than we did back then, but it's the same human beings. That's the bottom line. That's why there's nothing new under the sun. Right? That's why it just all cycles, is because it's human nature. And human, uh, nature buys the. I don't have to work anymore. Yes. This is awesome.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: And of course, we all feel this way. It's not. Not like you or I. I mean, I love that idea. It's just not reality. And honestly, I think even for, uh, our mental health, um, it's good for us to work. Right. It's to be productive in some way. Um, I. I think because it's important to give to others. Could truly. That's what a great business is. Right. The greatest business is the one who serves the most people. Right. Then offer something for someone that they genuinely need. And like you said, it's purely sold. Not some smoke screen or some lie that's told. Hey, people just want genuine help from genuine people. I mean, it really comes down. It's that simple. I want genuine help for. I want people that don't lie to me. Uh-huh. Right.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: I want people that don't, you know, give me the $200 car, uh, diagnosis and come back with a $2,000. Hey, I'm a lister.

Speaker A: You're listening. Yeah.

Speaker B: You're.

Speaker A: You're throwing these in here. Yeah. And you know what's funny about that situation is even what they quoted, which for the li. You know, those.

Speaker C: You.

Speaker A: This is your first time listening. Maybe, um, car dealership quoted me an amount, and then when I went to go pick up the car, not only did they add on, it's going to be another two grand to fix it. Uh, which I fixed for 50 bucks, by the way. Um, and YouTube. Uh, but also the diagnosis fee was $50 higher. And I was like, the issue isn't 50 bucks. No, it's 50 bucks.

Speaker C: It's.

Speaker A: It's nothing. Yeah. The issue is you lied to me.

Speaker C: That's it.

Speaker A: And that tells me the way you do business.

Speaker C: That's it. Which, by the way, Blake, I do want to teach you how to change the oil in your car after this, I still. We're going to go in the parking lot and do that. No, I love to share. Um, you know, this last year, we had one of our excavators. Uh, we accidentally pierced the gas tank, and all the gas came out. And your, uh, your gas tank in your excavator, just so you know, doesn't work well when it doesn't hold gas anymore. And so our guy. No shame and blame in our culture, he felt so bad. And, um, he called the dealership, and they. They. Honestly, they were. They were really cool about it. They just said, hey, you buy the part. We'll come out to you, because I Mean, it's a big excavator, right? And we're a summer camp. We don't really move equipment like that. So they. Hey, you couldn't drive. I mean, I mean, it was. Gas is gone. And so they came out here and, you know, my team member felt so bad, he wanted to see the ticket. And, I mean, he was. He was watching every dime that we spent. He had bought this for this amount, and when it came back, it was about a thousand dollars more than they had quoted us, which is fine. It happens, right? But he said, you know, David, they put in here that they had worked five hours and they had only worked three. And my guy, he knew that. And I said, okay, uh, that's kind of our word against theirs. Well, he went back to the footage of them driving through the gate, video camera, and driving out of the gate with our video surveillance. And so we. We had him. So I. I just called the. The company and talked to him about that. And they got upset with me. They got frustrated. And what had happened was they had charged us. He. They had charged the serviceman. He lived on the other side of

Speaker A: the store, so the cost to drive there.

Speaker C: So he drove to the store, then to us, then back to the store to. So I'm paying for his drive to work. And so I just said, you, uh, know, hey, I. I appreciate. I don't care if he lives in the state next door, but we're only going to. We're only going to pay for him driving from you to. To me.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: And they got upset. I happen to know the business owner. And I said, hey, look, uh, I'm not. I'm not trying to get out of paying my fair share. I want to do that. I said, but if my team had done this to a customer, I would want to know. And knowing who you are, I believe you would want to know this, too. And I didn't know him that well, but I knew him enough to have his cell phone. And what he didn't know was we had bought probably about 10 machines from him, you know, from tractors to balers and everything, because it's a working ranch. It's a working ranch. And, uh, he didn't know that our relationship was on the line with this because it was the principal, wasn't the dollars. And, man, he shot back, David, you're so right. I had spoken to our service. They are seeing it the way we all are, and we're going to get that fixed. Thank you so much. It wasn't perfection that I was seeking Right. It was simply do the right thing.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker C: That's the good stuff.

Speaker A: Right, Right.

Speaker C: That's where it's at. And that's all we want.

Speaker A: You know, it's interesting too because I feel like I, I feel like I'm. It's. So it has to take a lot to get me to write a one star review because I'm a small business guy. Absolutely. I know, I know what it's like. And I feel like this is my whole adult life of just crisis after crisis in the economy from COVID to the housing market and what have you. So I'm very hesitant to leave a one star review. Um, it's interesting to me though, when people don't understand the principle and it's almost like sometimes there's a mistrust on the front end from the business and step of like leading with trust for the customer. Because I have found myself in conversations like this where I've had to tell the business owner like, hey, I'm not trying to. So just like you said, I'm not trying to get out of this. It's just, I don't think this is right. I don't think this is correct. And specifically with the car dealership, you know, and I'm some random Joe Schmo, like at the end of the day, multimillion dollar company, like what do they care? Right? Um, I mean, other than when another enough people start to care.

Speaker C: Yeah, but if that's their legacy. Yeah, right. It's not going to be good. One at a time. It's not going to be good.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Uh, well, in this case, um, I had a friend of mine I was talking about, I lead this group on Tuesday mornings with a bunch of business owners and I was just. We share our wins and just things that are happening in business. Well, I share the story about this car part which for the listener piece of a part of my car broke and I knew what it was on the front end. I told the dealership what it was on the front, the front end. They gave me the diagnosis fee and I already mentioned they ended up charging more for that.

Speaker C: They kept the car for a week.

Speaker A: And then I finally said, hey, I think I'm gonna take it somewhere else. And then they said, oh no, it, it is that thing that you said it was. And it's $2,500 to fix it. Which in the week of me waiting, I was curious and I had already looked up the cost of the part. So I knew it was like a $30 part and I had found the video on YouTube that was like, hey, this is a 30 minute quick fix. So I was stunned by this part price. But point being, I was sharing the story with someone who was in the group and the person, awesome business owner, smart person, said, hey, I know the owner. Like do you want me to get either contact info? And I was like, I, uh, don't want to, you know, rock the boat. And like I, I can get you

Speaker C: the and if you should, they would, they would probably care.

Speaker A: They probably want to know. And I was like, well, yeah, I, I'd be happy to. So I get an email address, right? I, an email. And again, I'm trying to be very, I, I don't want to be that guy, you know, but I just say, hey, here's what happened. Here's how long it took. Here's the experience I had. Here's what you charged me and how it was different. And then what you quoted me to fix it. And then what I actually paid. As someone, you know, we joked about the oil, I, I don't know how to change my own oil in my car. I have no idea. Never done it before. So as someone who's never done that, I fixed it and it hour. So how long would it have taken one of your texts? Probably 15 minutes, you know, so I sent off that email, never heard anything back, never got a response. And I just thought, okay, that tells me something about your business.

Speaker C: It does. It's so hard getting those emails, right? You, you know that um, I, I, I know that because you know, my heart is, I want to be better. And you know, you, you're busy, you're busy. Like I said on opex, right. I, I got a to do list I got to execute. But I'm telling you, if we don't leave margin in our schedule to address our customers concern, um, word of mouth is the greatest marketing tool.

Speaker A: That's right.

Speaker C: And I mean you and I both know all we're looking for, I mean as from the customers, if I'm a customer of somebody else. All you were looking for was an I'm sorry, not a gotcha moment. It wasn't that at all. It was that I'm sorry, we're going to do better. And hey, I like next time call me personally. And I would love to fix this. I'm telling you, that goes a long way because we're not perfect at our summer camp. Right? We're not. And those parents that are willing to or the customers that are willing to go out of their way and let Us know, I see that as valuable instead of irritating. But once again, as a business owner, sometimes we just don't have that margin. Mhm. We just don't. Right. In that. And I think it's really important that we look in the mirror and say, how do I put that margin in? Because it's so vital to our business growth. Right. It is that we. Not only. We got to get from being these people who just sit here and work in our business, that we don't get to work on our business. Right. And that's.

Speaker A: That's what happens, you know, And I think it's, uh. I don't know if this was ever your experience, because I feel like when you took over Brookhill, like it had 50 years of history. Well, 40 years of history or what have you, and now it's 60 years. Um, often in like, entrepreneurial circles, there's so much we talked about ego, but, like, insecurity. And so here's a great example of this. I was talking to a business owner who. They were collecting feedback, uh, from customers. It was like one of those basic, like, how was your purchase today? Kind of thing. And, um, it was a scale from one to five, basically. And they had piles, and they had the five, the four, the three, the two, and the one. And actually the two of the ones were together in a folder. And, um, so we were just kind of looking at it, uh, because a big thing of what I sell is like, customer intentionality and, you know, getting those lifelong customers and all that kind of stuff. So we're looking at the piles and they're really proud of the fis. And they're. And they're good. It's good stuff. Well, then I'm like, what's, what's this one? They said, oh, that's the twos and ones. And I go, what does it say? And I go, we don't know. We've never read it.

Speaker C: No way.

Speaker A: Yeah, they'd never opened it other than just seeing the one or two. And they just put it in that pile.

Speaker C: It's the most valuable pile. That right there, uh, that they're. They're telling you, if you'll do this, you'll be amazing. That's what the ones and the twos are telling you. Now you're going to weed out the. I mean, the ones that literally don't help. They're just, just like, I hate you. Okay, well, that. I can't fix that. Okay. You're gonna have to tell them, you know, but. But for somebody like you who was Very specific at what happened. We can fix that. Yeah, that is a very fixable process. And you could at least send back an email that says, uh, what can we do to, if, if we were to fix that, could we win your business back?

Speaker A: Well, in this case, this was a business. So, um, I mean, it was insecurity. The business was so personal that reading that feedback was too hurtful. And so they just, they, they just didn't read it. And I think what's so painful about this kind of stuff is. I don't know about you. Actually, I do know this about you. Um, I take it extremely personal when someone has a mediocre experience with me and I can try to justify it, I can try to. Well, I never wanted that to happen. And usually it's a process thing. Usually communication broke down or I see, like, okay, here's why that happened. I understand it now. Um, but I don't want someone to have a mediocre experience.

Speaker B: Experience.

Speaker A: And I think sometimes what happens in business is your business does become very mediocre. And we don't know why, because we're not willing to engage the customer on those things. And more important, like you said, uh, when a customer's pissed off or mad or they've had a bad experience, the opportunity to say, hey, I'm willing to change and fix this, would that be enough to bring you back? Instead of, instead it's, you know, radio silence or what have you.

Speaker C: But and a lot of times it wasn't the business owner that did it. Right. It was the team. And um, so you, you have to see that and go, well, I got to train my team better. Right. I've got to commute, but it's on me. Mhm. It's the leader. Right. Going back to that. And it, it's, I didn't communicate that well enough, uh, because, you know, I, I can call a customer all day and say, that's not what we do. And then they're going to say, well, that's what you did. And um, but, but you. Quick meetings with your team because, you know, who knows how many, uh, you know, some of those stories that you were sharing. Who knows did the, the highest level leader in that organization know about that? Right. And so, you know, what's the process for you to know what's going on in some, you know, let's say you have three locations, right? Let's say you have five trucks, right. You can't be in every truck. And I think that that's what as a leader we try and make up for it. I'm trying to be everywhere all the time, right? I'm trying. I'm trying. I gotta work more. And that's never the answer, right? You gotta hire great people and you gotta coach them and you gotta do,

Speaker A: you know, on that. And I kind of already know the answer, because one thing that I. What has always been true about Brook Hill, from when I worked there was, man, you guys were so intent on hiring the right people. Like, some of these competing camps. I just wonder where they found these people. Like, I remember distinctly, I had accounts are at another camp where I was like, do you like. Like, do you even enjoy kids? Like, you seem like you're being punished to be here. And, um, being behind the scenes with Brookhill, I mean, just hours of meetings, really, making sure it's the right person. Um, so I've already given the answer to the question, but I. I am curious. You know, you're having these candid conversations. You're having dialogue with team members about things that have gone wrong or things that need to change. What's your secret for bringing on people who have. Have a heart that can listen and grow and change and. And take hard feedback? Like, what. What's been that. That's. That's been that you've developed at Brookhill?

Speaker C: You know, I think it's all in the setup, right? It's all in the front end, um, of talking about, here's the culture of who we are. And I think back when you were here, I think we did. I don't know now looking back, I think we did an okay job. Job. You know, I mean, I appreciate what you're saying, but because we've grown so much in the way that we do, we're getting better feedback from our staff. Um, and it's just our processes of how you communicate. I really feel like, honestly, Blake, sometimes I want to apologize to you because I feel like sometimes we were a little shame and blame, um, in now, you know, it's the more sharing care culture with our team. Um, but. But I. I really think you have to have enough

Speaker B: meetings.

Speaker C: M. Let me give you. Let me give you this story. So we had somebody evaluate one of our young, up and coming staffers. They were like, yeah, they gave him like, a three out of five. And they were like, they were willing. They just didn't know what to do. And we were like, that's perfect. You want willing people and you're there to train them what to do. Did you tell them what to do? Well, no, they just didn't know what to do. And I think we assume people are going to walk in the door already ready to go.

Speaker A: I, I, I just know it's genuine because I can, I have literal data points from years ago, years, this would have been 15 years ago of us having this conversation and you've continued to live it out.

Speaker C: I think when you were there, we did you, we have levels, right? You know, level one, level two, level three. You had gotten up to the level four leadership. I think we did a good job with the upper level leadership development. I would look back and say, hey, we weren't bad at that. I don't think we did great at the level one. And so if we've improved, I think what has really grown us, I think now we have 300 part time during the summer, we have something like 80 full time. And those 80 we always, because they were level three, level four, they all always got good development. Lots we had, we, but we created lots of space for that and, and to go back and, and kind of give you a little grace there. I don't feel like you had a lot of space to train these people with where you are at. One of the processes we've changed is we've now given space to level one, which goes back to a chick fil a. Chick fil A on their level. What? Think about it. You don't ever go on a chick fil A to the cash register, ask a question and they look at you confused, right?

Speaker A: You do get that other places, you,

Speaker C: you, they're like, uh, you, you, you

Speaker A: know, the customer comes in, they're like, there, someone's, what do we do?

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Can I have a milkshake? A milkshake? Do we serve milkshake? You know, they act as if no one told them anything about this business. Right. I don't even know if we sell chicken here. It's like you're the chicken place, you know. But it's because chick fil A, every level you're at, you get training. And I think that has been a huge improvement for us. And so that's why when I look, look back, you know, you had gotten to those level three, level four. And I think sometimes we give our upper managers that mentoring because as leaders we need them. Right. But we forget that level one needs it too. And I think we're too quick to discard people. Right? Great leader of you and I, he said you got to see the potential before the lack. Mhm. The lack is there, right? The lack is always there. But My goodness. I am so grateful that someone saw the potential in me because we all had the lack. Right. Uh, all of us. You know, I heard this saying. It's one of my favorites that Larry says. He says we're not perfect beings, we're human beings, but we need to be improving beings. And, you know, we got to realize those level one people are human, too. Whether, you know, we're making fun of the millennial or the Gen Z or whatever.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: But they're just people that want to be noticed. Yeah. And they do want to be developed. Right. And we just have to adapt to their personality once again. Who's it on? It's on the leader. Right. I think that's a theme of what we're talking about today.

Speaker A: It's on the leader. David, this has been a great conversation, man. I. I really enjoyed. It's. It's funny. And I'll just say this to you, the average person who's ever been to Broke Hill is not going to give a rip about this, but, um, man, it's just refreshing. This is a nostalgia bomb for me, but it's reminding me of, like, very core values to me. And hearing you talk about them, it's just. It's nice. It's nice to. To the integrity of Brook Hill and to see. Wow, okay. It is still that. It is still. You know, it's just. It's special. It's special to hear you talk. And, um, you know, I appreciate you, and I think this is such great advice for the listener. Um, because people. People can be complicated to work with because they are people. And, um, you've given a lot of great advice today, so I appreciate it.

Speaker C: I appreciate that. Blake, it's an honor to be here. Um, and, you know, just couldn't be more proud. Proud of what you're doing. Because what you're doing is right in my heart. You know, it's all about the people.

Speaker A: What, uh, for people listening who, you know, maybe they.

Speaker B: If.

Speaker A: If they have kids, they need to send them to Brook Hill, obviously. Uh, but what about, like, the. Maybe business owners, People who just want to really. Because I have to imagine people listening who are really. They want to grab onto that vision. We've. We've talked almost entirely around leading people, and they're curious about that. They want to know more about your thoughts on that kind of stuff. Is there a way for people to connect with you on that, or is there a best way for people to reach you?

Speaker C: Absolutely. David. Com. You know, I love, love responding to emails, and you know, I mean, we all. We've all been there, right? I'm still there. We all just want somebody that we can connect with, that's going through what we're going through as a leader, and just. I need some tools. Right. And so. So, um, you know, I do have a podcast, the Broke Hill Podcast, where we talk about life, legacy, and leadership. Um, but, uh, you know, this. This is what I love to do.

Speaker A: Love it. Thanks for coming on again. I really appreciate it.

Speaker C: Thanks, Blake.

Speaker A: See ya.