#539 - Why Bad Customer Service Happens

Speaker A: Foreign. We're back again today for another episode of the Good Advice Podcast. Hello, hello, hello. Welcome to the Good Advice Podcast. Welcome to the show. My name is Blake Bens. I'm the host of the Good Advice Podcast. And we're going to be talking about how people miss it from a customer service standpoint today, including one particular interaction that I had with someone in particular. And, uh, there's some lessons we can learn from. You know, how do you treat your customers? How do you talk to your customers? And what, more importantly, how do you make things right? So all that to say we're going to be diving into that today. Before we do, uh, again, welcome to the show and thanks for tuning in. Uh, we're going to hear a word from one of the businesses who sponsored today's episode. Check out this quick ad and we'll be back soon.

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Speaker A: All right, I. Here we are. Here we are. A new podcast episode. Um, I, first of all, let me apologize. We've had some, I mean, podcast has been going for. It'll be eight years this fall and, um, 500 plus episodes, I think, actually including like the unnumbered episodes. Because, uh, we've had some, we've had some episodes. We did a series, I think it was called Final Friday, which wasn't a numbered episode. I think it was just like a weekly wrap up. You know, here's what's in the news kind of thing. Um, so we might even be closer, I think to 600 episodes. I can't remember exactly, but I, uh, do know there's been people who've listened to the podcast for many years and, uh, I mean, the podcast has become fairly large. I mean, it's, it's exciting that every year, uh, no matter how much I seem to meander through my own business and try to figure out what not to do, uh, it's nice to know that the podcast has always grown and continued to, um, just be a great source of connections and frankly leads and sales and just, uh. I've met some incredible people because of the podcast and I'm grateful for you for tuning into the show. So with that, you know, the, the podcasting schedule, the podcasting life has, um, you know, really shifted over the years in terms of my ability to dedicate time to it. Um, generally speaking, we always publish once a week. There's been seasons where I've been able to publish twice a week. Uh, and there have been seasons like the season I'm in now, where I am finding it difficult to have the time to sit down and record an episode. And that' that's not like a subtle announcement coming about anything about the state of the podcast. It's really just for, you know, those of you who've listened to the show long term and you've been like, you know, where's. What's going on with podcast? Where's. We're getting, we're getting an episode about every 10 days instead of, um, you know, every work week, uh, which in the grand scheme of things is already quite a bit more than some podcasts, you know, that publish like once a month, for example. Um, long story short, you know, I have a baby who's going to be one years old, um, coming up this next week. And definitely there's been two seasons in my life where, when I think back to my other two children when they were born, um, I mean, just, just a whirlwind, you know, it's just a whirlwind of life with a baby. And even when you've done it before, um, figuring out new dynamics and figuring out, um, how life works with one more human who you're responsible for. Uh, these are just, you know, it's interesting. Um, I'll also mention that, uh, let's see, the past, like four or five months, we've been just continuously sick, uh, which, you know, I, I had a friend of mine who went through something like this last year where from like January till June, they were just like Sickness just kept happening. It just kept cycling through their family. And I remember thinking like, boy, I hope that doesn't ever happen to me. Little did I know that surely it would. It was very naive of me to think that, uh, but we've been in that season too, where legitimately, I think back to January and, uh, it almost feels like we've been sick more than we've been healthy. Um, and it's things from like colds to we got a stomach bug and then we had like, colds again, and then we just came out of a really. Probably the worst stomach bug I've ever seen. My kids have genuinely. Um, I mean, there came a point where I was like, how many times at. At what point have my kids thrown up so much that I need to worry about dehydration? Like, I mean, it just was insane. It was really just insane. My, uh, wife got sick. I got sick. So. All that to say if you've been wondering about like, the pacing of the show, uh, it's just a season. It's just. That's that kind of season. Um, just navigating. Um, you know, I also bought a business last year about a marketing agency from like a grand scheme of things. That's. That was a great decision. Those customers have been really great, um, some really amazing customers that I'm glad to have. But, um, with that, um, one of the decisions I made just knowing how whenever a business purchase happens, this is just. This is not the focus of the episode today, but just something you can process. This, uh, isn't just for like buying a business. This is anytime you have a big change in your business, whenever you have a big change in your business, it's important to know that your customers are generally, generally averse to change, even if the change is minor. Now the nuance here, the irony here is that change is, is guaranteed. Your customers are going to experience change from you regardless. It's just. It just is what it is. It's going to happen. However, I've also found it to be true that people, even when change is insignificant, there is a lot of stress, a lot of worry, a lot of wondering and what ifs and what does that mean for me and what have you. Um, I. Getting to the point of what I was saying, so whenever I bought the business, I. It was important to me to keep the, um, brand separate. And one of the things that I knew was going to happen eventually was, um, rolling. Rolling that business into the Good Advice brand. And I was expecting that to be about a year out from buying it. Long story short, we're there, we're doing it, we're making it happen. Um, I had been sitting on good advice marketing.com for a while. We had done a little bit of marketing business through that. For people who knew me well, they didn't know me through Good Advice Coaching. They knew me through the marketing website. But otherwise, we were still continuing to engage customers through the Good Advice Coaching website and then the WPMP website, um, with those customers as well. So, uh, on top of having a baby, we've also been merging brands and, uh, speaking about change for your customers, I mean, I've been emailing customers. Um, our maintenance plan is changing its price. It's going from $59 a month to $79 a month. Um, but I was emailing customers today and saying, hey, you know, this, you're going to see on the website publicly that this price point has changed. I'm just letting you know your price is not changing. I'm letting you know your price will indefinitely stay the same, just as a thank you for your business. You're going to be grandfathered into it. Uh, until, of course, you know, I guess one day hosting fees will be, you know, preposterous. And then at that point, it's going to be like, hey, we need to, we need to revisit this, right? But even even though their price was not changing, even though my customer's price was not changing, I still went out of my way to communicate. Your price is not changing. It's not changing. It's not changing. Um, with every email that I sent, I just made sure to say, your price is not changing. Because again, now everyone has a different, everyone has a different tendency around this. I mean, I'm, um, certainly I have some customers who are super chill and they're like, I mean, I feel like I have some customers, candidly, where I could do literally nothing and they'd still be like, you're great. You know, hey, take the month off. Hey, have I paid you? Let me just go out and pay you again. Like, I just, I seriously, I have customers like that where I'm like, I, I, I don't know why this is happening. I don't know why this, These, you know, I had a customer just send me a letter in the mail with, I guess somebody gave him a bunch of Dunkin Donuts, uh, gift cards. And so he sent me a bunch of Dunkin and said, hey, your kids are gonna love them. And, um, actually, no, now I think about that, he sent a bunch of like candy in the. That's what he was talking about was I was like, why would he give me all these dunk. The reason I'm confused or I'm sounding confusing is I went through this process myself of this is very weird that my customer thought my kids would love Dunkin Donuts. I mean, I guess kids love donuts. But then I realized there's a bunch of chocolate in the package too. But on top of that there was a check. A check that he said, hey, I want to, I want to get this to you. So I mean, you know, I definitely do have some great vibes oriented customers. But generally speaking, I know that customers are pretty change averse. So I try to go out of my way to make sure that changes are communicated. And that's just a good rule of thumb for your business. Whatever changes that are happening, just making sure that you're talking and communicating about those changes and uh, making sure that they're familiar with it. Again, it doesn't mean that every change needs to be communicated. I do think there are some changes that um, you know, I think about one company that changed their, their opening hours from 9am to 8am and um, there was, there was conversation around like, what's happening with this business? Like are they extending their hours because like they're failing? Like what, what's, like what's happening? Like why are they starting earlier in the day? And you know, it was actually that the business owner, like kids were out of the home, he was already up and like working and people were like friends, like customers were calling and being like, would you mind if I just dipped in earlier to your business? And he got so used to saying like, yeah, sure, come on by that he eventually just thought, well, why not just open? Why not just be open, right? So it's funny just, you know, I guess you don't have to communicate every change, but just know that people also, even when it has nothing to do with them, they're going to wonder about changes. And anyway, all right, so I totally was not anticipating to have like this really long winded arc on change. Um, I was really just trying to explain. Hey, if you've been wondering about the podcast, uh, the podcast pacing. It's just because it's just been a season. You know, kids, kids and sickness is really it on the short end of it. So. Okay, let's get to the actual heart and soul of today's episode. You know, I want to talk about customer service. I'll say generally, I've talked a lot about Customer service. This is a major, um, passion area for me. I've done so many episodes on wowing your customers. I, um, mean, I have. And from start to finish, by the way, I think that how you start with a customer and how you end with the customer are both vitally important. Um, I had a customer that I thought I was going to lose their business, and I was already thinking about, okay, how do I. How do I offboard them in a good way? How do I offboard them in a way that appreciates them and respects them and thanks them for their investment? Um, and I thought, this is kind of awkward. Like, I'm. I'm thinking of, like, you know, just being. Giving a great experience to business that I'm losing. Um, which I ended up not losing the business. So it was a whole moot point of conversation. But point is, you know, I think it's interesting that some businesses, they roll out the red carpet when the customer signs the contract, but when this customer rolls off, they. There's no conversation. It's like, you're dead to me. There's no, um. And even, like, which, by the way, I mean, your customers are going to leave. They just are. You're. You might have a customer that you have for life, meaning you have them for 10 or 15 years, and then one day you lose them. You know, it's the customer. You think, I'm never going to lose that customer. And I've had that before, too, where I've thought this person is a tried and true fan. And, um, you know, then they. They send an email that says, hey, our plans have changed, or I'm, you know, chasing down this other thing that I'm thinking about or what have you. And then, you know, people are just fickle. It's just. It's just how it works. It's just. It's just deeply true that, um, you know, people. I don't say easily distractible because I think that carries a little bit too much negative weight, but just that, you know, we're all running businesses and things shift dramatically. Um, I mean, I had some really amazing businesses that I had some really great contracts with pre Covid. And then March 11 happened, and the emails came in and the phone calls and, um, you know, and as I think about it, I don't think I ever got those customers back. I don't think I ever got that business back. Um, you know, it's just. And it's not because I did anything wrong or they did anything wrong. It's just the markets changed. They Shifted. So I think how you treat your customers from start to finish says a lot about how you do business. Right? It's kind of like, um. It's kind of like the whole. It's kind of a bit of a cliche ism. Um, or like a trope about, like, how do you treat your spouse, um, on like, Valentine's Day versus, like, in the small moments. And sure, it's great to buy flowers and chocolate for your wife on Valentine's Day, but. But how do you talk to her when it's 4am M. And the baby's screaming? Right? How do you talk to her in these, like, small, tiny moments? Um. And, you know, again, I'm not. I'm not. I'm not like, virtue signal of like, well, if y' all could be more like me, I mean, I've definitely lost my patience, lost my temper, had, um, to say, hey, I'm. I'm sorry for being cranky. Hey, I'm sorry. I was. I was feeling really tired. I know you're feeling really tired. You know, what have you, um, I mean, it's just doing life with another person, you know, you're going to lose. You're going to lose your patience. Right? But point being, a lot of times people like to judge their outcomes, or rather their effort by those big moments. And I have found that customer service is found in those little moments. So, you know, not just the onboarding conversation, but how accessible you are to the customer. How do you talk to the customer? Um, are you inconvenienced? Which, I mean, I've, I've. I have had people that I pay monthly subscriptions to, and I have a problem with the service and I call and it's like. It's like I've done something wrong, you know, and that's actually what I want to discuss today. I, uh, had a software. So we have our tech stack. Our software stack, um, which. This, this, this is just, um, uh, marketing language for all the programs and apps and things like that you use to run your business is. Is what your tech stack is. So, uh, and then like, whatever integrations are all associated with that. So we probably have, um, I don't know, maybe like $1,500 a month or $2,000 a month worth of, um, software that we use to run the business. And some of that is related to, um, you know, just purely like, hosting websites. Um, other parts of it are like, apps for those websites or different features or things that we pass on to the customer. Um, um, and then other things Are like, you know, marketing related. Like, we, we pay for, um, ahrefs, which is a great SEO tool. Um, you know, there's a lot of things that are out there. Well, I had a tool that I paid for. Um, I guess I paid for it last year, and it was basically a reporting tool. It, It. It's just a. It. At the time, I felt like it was a really great tool. And I really didn't even have much of an issue with it other than I just realized I didn't need it. And that's basically all it is. I. I just didn't need it. Well, the problem was, it was that I paid for an annual subscription for it, which the annual subscription was like around 200 bucks. So this was like last June, I guess. So I pay for this annual subscription and I very quickly stop using it. I think I used it for like a week. And, um, which I'm typically a bit more studious with my, you know, don't judge me too harshly about it. Um, but for, for whatever reason, like, we were, I think at the time, I was testing and trying new services to see what would be most useful for our own internal processes. And this reporting tool seemed really great. And then I very quickly started to see some of the gaps that I wasn't getting. Um, one example of that was the reporting tool was exhaustive, but there was no way, there was no way to revise it and put it in front of a customer. Like, all you could really do was export it and then send a customer a PDF report, um, that was like 100 pages long. I mean, it's just like imagine being a customer and someone sends you 100 page report. You're like, dude, what is this? Like, what do we got going on here? So what I wanted to do was I. And then it was just too time consuming also to try to, um, summarize it in it. Like, I was paying for a reporting tool to then go create my own report to put in front of a customer. It was just illogical. It was insane. Like, I think I did it for like two days. And then I was like, this is, this is ridiculous. Let's just find a reporting tool that actually does what we needed to. And, um, which we did. I'm really happy with the direction we went. Long story short, okay, it's been a year. Um, I, I'm checking my bank account and I notice a $200 charge on, I think this was Monday. $200 charge. And it's for the annual subscription for this, uh, this tool. Which I don't need the tool. I didn't realize that I was auto subscribed in an annual subscription. So I. You guys are going to ding me on this because I said I don't hate AI. I don't have a problem with AI generally speaking, yet I continue finding myself in these conversations where I complain about it. Um, and then I always do this thing where I mentioned, by the way, I pay for a premium subscription. I think Now I pay $150 a month for, for AI tools. So I don't have an issue with AI in general. Um, I just really have deep disdain for how it's used by like 98% of customers. Right? It's like, I don't dislike email. I like getting emailed by, by my customers or, you know, people that I pay money to, but I don't like getting 10,000 emails a day on, you know, an Instagram notice. I just don't. It's like, again, 98% of the use around it is really obnoxious. So I send an email, I find the support email, and, um, there's a chat bubble. So I'm like, oh, great, I can talk to somebody. I open the chat bubble, this is on a Monday. And the chat bubble says, you know, it's an AI support thing. So I type in, you know, cancel subscription. And it gives like the very unhelpful to cancel your subscription. Go to account within settings. I'm like, okay, I need to get a refund. And, um, it immediately spits back, you know, we don't have refunds for people who use our services and decide they don't want it. Which I felt like, you know, maybe I'm. Maybe I'm. You guys can tell me if I'm wrong here. I felt like I wasn't using the service. I felt like the way that they described that person they don't give refunds to was somebody who uses it for a couple of days and says, oh, never mind, I don't want this and that. They don't do refunds for that. Um, so I feel, I feel like they didn't apply because I had now paid for two years of a tool that I had used for like four days. So in my mind, again, maybe I'm the crazy one. Maybe I'm the problem. I, uh, in my mind, I thought, I feel like you guys have gotten your money's worth. I just, I just feel like that's true that, you know, you've. You've gotten it, you've received it, you Know, you can see how much I use it. You know, I haven't used it at all. But it said, um, you know, for all other circumstances, you can, you can email at this email address. And I was like, okay, great. So I can't even talk to someone on this chat bubble. It's just an AI bubble thing. So I email the person, I email the contact support email, and I say, hey, yeah, looking for a refund and give them, like, the spiel. Well, I get an automatic email back, and it's an AI agent. And it does say, I am an AI agent. And it says, you know, we don't do any refunds, um, for people who use our tools. Which, uh, again, I feel like that didn't apply to me. I don't know. But it said, if you would like us to escalate this to a human agent, please, you know, respond and ask us to escalate it. Which I did. I said, yep. And by the way, I'm not trying to lie or deceive here, but I feel like I'm being genuinely honest when I say I was very pleasant and polite. I have found that when I treat people kindly that they are a bit more nice themselves about solving my problem. So I said, yep, I understand. Um, I appreciate you getting back to me. I am still looking for a refund. If you can escalate this, please. You know, here I am talking to. By the way, have you guys heard this story about, um, the percent, the additional percent increase of AI energy, like electricity and water, because of people thanking their AI agents? Have you heard about this? Like, uh, I don't know. I can just make out the percentage if it would make you feel better. Six percent, more electricity and water. I have no idea. But basically it was like, when you get an answer from ChatGPT, people are burning more energy by then responding and saying thank you. And it's like, you don't need to say thank you. It's a robot. But, you know, politeness.

Speaker B: Right?

Speaker A: But here I am. It's just funny to me that here I am trying to talk kindly to the AI agent. Yes, please, thank you. Um, and really, I'm also kind of. I'll be honest, I'm kind of annoyed. I am a little annoyed internally about, like, does this need to be so difficult? Like, do we need. And I get it at scale. At scale, you can't answer every email. But I'm also like, why can't you? Like, uh, is this like a central, wild concept that. I mean, I had a customer who emailed me. It was like a Thursday. No, a customer emailed me on a Friday with an issue. I saw it. Uh, uh, I didn't get to it immediately, but about an hour or two hours later, I responded to it. I said, yeah, we got you covered. You're all good. And then. And then he immediately responded and said, like, wow, I'm. I really appreciate you getting directly back with me. Thank you. Uh, which, by the way, guys, as I'm talking about the story about AI, I'm not kidding. My, uh, uh, chat GPT thing just popped open, like, on its own. Which do. I got, like, a voice going on here. What's going on here? How did this just happen? Super creepy. I don't know. It's like, they say they don't do this, but it's like you talk about the most random thing, and then you start getting, like, sales messages for it. Have y' all noticed this? Like, you mention, um, you make. I'm showing something, like, really niche. Oh, I. I was telling my wife, I was like, my kids devour toilet paper. Like, not literally, but they use so much of it. Should we. Should we check out a bidet? Is that too fancy? What do we think about that? Is that. How very European and classy of us. And I made this comment in passing to my wife, I kid you not, later that day, ads on Facebook for bidets. What are we doing? What are we doing, guys? Anyway, so I'm sending this email, and I'm like, yep, please give me a hand. So then I get back the paragraph, the essay, the, um, someone who was just not having it that day. Who. How dare I. How dare I ask for a refund? And I'll tell you from the get go, this person really pushed my buttons. And I'll go ahead and say she gave me the refund. I got the refund. So I should probably just take my licks and be like, you know what? Let's take the win. We're good. But it really bothered me because this person emailed me and said, hi, I got your request. Um, and I'm not going to, like, dramatic read this, where it's like, how dare you? Even though it kind of felt that way. Um, but she basically said, um, yep, I got your request. You, um, should know that refunds must be requested before, uh, the amount comes out of your. Before the amount is processed, before it comes out of your bank account. And furthermore, we emailed you two weeks ago, uh, notifying you that this purchase was going to be made, and if you did not Intend to re up for it. You should have suspended the account before the renewal date. So I'm being scolded. Which, uh, I'll be honest, guys. I have like 60,000 emails in my email address. Uh, and most of it's spam. So did I see your random email? No. And I'll be honest, the only emails I really pay attention to are customer emails. Uh, I know who my customers are. When I see the name, when I see the domain, I'm immediately looking at it, you know, Otherwise it's, I'm blind to it. Like I really am. I just don't see it. Um, so, yeah, I didn't see. I didn't see. Maybe I should have, you know. Um, so I said, right and say anything. She said this. And I kind of thought to myself, you know. Yeah, I guess you did tell me. I guess it is my fault. Um, the funny thing was at the end of being scolded, she said, um, as a one time offer to you. What time offer? Um, as a one time exception to you, I've gone ahead and processed your refund. You'll see it in your bank account in one to three days. Um, thank you. Have a great day. And I kind of just, I read that and thought, did we need, did we need everything else? Did we need to say everything else? Do you think, don't you think that my perception of your business would have been so much more positive? Maybe. I mean, I'm not gonna, like, I'm not gonna lie about this. Uh, I doubt I'm gonna go buy a billboard for them. I certainly am going to talk about them more positively on the podcast versus what I'm doing right now, which is trashing this company. But I thought to myself, did we need to scold me when you ended up doing what I asked for anyway, like, because let's think about this from like a customer service standpoint. It almost, call me crazy. It almost feels like you could have gotten this request easily. Seen that the purchase came through at 8am on a Monday morning and that at 9am m. The customer emailed and asked, can you refund this? I didn't know. I just. Wild concept. I just think it's understandable. Uh, I know that because I have customers who, um, suddenly, uh, I had a customer. We don't do refunds for M. I shouldn't say we don't do refunds. I have definitely refunded, um, a purchase here or there that somebody made by mistake because we do have automated payments, we do have subscriptions. One example Even most recently, start of the month, um, I had a customer who, uh, people pay for their hosting, their maintenance at the start of the month. Um, the customer. The customer did not do that. It didn't come out of the bank account. The bank account. The card info had changed, I guess. And on like the eighth, which was, you know, like a week after it was due, uh, he called me to say, hey, I need to. Actually need to cancel this. Like, we're, we're taking the website down. Like, we're not going to use it anymore. And, um, I guess if I was going to take the scolding approach, I could have said, well, you know, I've already paid for your hosting this month. Right. You realize, I mean, I wish I could say I was paying 4 cents, but it's like $35, which is nothing. But, you know, I probably would have had every right to say, well, you know, I've already paid for your hosting, so I mean, unfortunately, you'll have to wait till next month before I can undo that. But what I did instead was I said, hey. Okay, sounds good. Thanks for letting me know. Hey, you have this invoice out. I'm going to go ahead and cancel it for you. You know, don't worry about it. Hey, great new business with you. Really appreciate you. See ya. And that was it. That was the interaction. So, like, I think about this and I wonder, like, why do people do this? Um, why do business? Uh, and it's almost even sometimes you genuinely make a mistake and for whatever reason, it really, you know, ticks someone off. It really, like, frustrates someone. And, you know, I don't know, it's very interesting to me. I think a lot of it is ego. Um, I think a lot of it is ego. I think it's two things. The first one is I think it's a lot of ego. I think if you're going to be in the nature of running a successful business, you can't be ego driven. You know, we see this on social media where it's like the PR disaster train wreck situation where, you know, the CEO gets criticized online and they double down and it's like, oh, dude, just say. Just say you're sorry. And like, you'll fade away back into. Uh, a good example would be, um, that you guys know the, if you remember the Coldplay concert thing where the HR lady was with her boss and it was like a big news thing like last year. Well, she had an interview recently where she said that, like, people wronged her. Like, it wasn't fair to. And it's like, okay. I mean, actually not even now that I'm even bringing it up. I really don't want to go down this path of like, hey listeners, let's really talk about the who is correct in the situation. But I do think it's interesting that it probably would have been simpler and easy to just say, yeah, that wasn't a great moment. Um, you know, which I think the history was her and her husband had like already split actually, or something like that. Uh, actually I really shouldn't gossip about it, so I apologize. I actually don't know that I shouldn't, I shouldn't have said that. Um, I'll have my guy take this out of post production. Um, but again, people don't really always know what's happening. And um, probably would have been simpler would have just saying like, yeah, it wasn't a great moment and it just is what it is. We don't have to necessarily say every detail. And in the same way, this happens a lot with business where a customer's unhappy. Sometimes customers, sometimes customers genuinely do not have healthy expectations about the services you're going to deliver for them. Which is by the way, why it is so important to communicate those expectations well on the front end. And you can do this in a way that's agreeable and polite and kind of. I had a customer that is a, um, restoration service. So you know, you have like a water, water pipe burst and floods your house. So that's what a restoration company does. And um, he had a customer who didn't just want things fixed in like the cleanup to happen, but wanted them to like be, build out a new living room basically. And he was like, well, but that's not what we do. Like we're, we're an emergency service. We're not like an interior designer. And the person was mad about that. They were mad that they didn't do. And it's like, okay, um, I guess, I guess now we need to talk about this on the front end. I guess now we need to communicate this on the front end. Which, uh, sometimes, honestly I shouldn't say this. People are so stupid though that you're like, you thought, you really thought that that's something we were going to do for you. Like for like a one time fee, we were going to just build, rebuild uh, your entire living room for 800 bucks. I mean really. So sometimes it's not anyone's fault. It's just, you know, it's the, it's the quality of the Person, I guess. But nine times out of ten, it's a miscommunication, it's a misunderstanding. Um, I'll give a really great example as well. Years ago, probably would have been 11, 12 years ago, I was tasked. I was working for a consulting firm. I was tasked with bidding out, um, new. A new. A website. Bidding out a new website for the company. And, um, long story short, I talked to a bunch of companies and, um, people kept telling me about WordPress websites and like, yeah, we can build you a WordPress website. Um, I didn't know what that was. And when I asked one of the sellers about it, I think they used the word template or something like that, which I heard. Template. I think what they meant was like, it's just like a. The base Part of WordPress is, you know, it's the same across the board and then you customize it and build it and develop it for the brand, which is true, and this is also true, by the way, for most websites.

Speaker B: So.

Speaker A: But what I heard was template. And I thought, well, I don't want like a stock website. So I then changed my bids to, um, specifically in requesting these bids, specifically saying, we don't want a WordPress website, we want a custom website. Well, then I had a company come back to me and they quoted me $30,000. I mean, 12 years ago, $30,000 then compared to now. Um, quoted me 12 grand and, um, excuse me, 30 grand. And I was like, you guys are crazy. And I was mad about the price. I was like, are y' all nuts? Like, this is an insane price point. Well, yeah, because I'm asking. It's not their fault. It's. I'm the stupid customer here. I am asking for a custom website because I don't understand what WordPress is, you know, and so sometimes it's just miscommunications. It's, it's, um, you know, now again, like selling. Selling websites, for example, I don't typically talk about it being on WordPress or on Shopify. Like, I'll genuinely. I'll generally talk about it. I'll say, yep, we're going to do a Shopify store. You're an E comm brand. That one's going to be really good for you. But I don't, I don't ask them, do you want a WordPress site or Shopify site? Um, I communicate based on my expertise what would be typically best for them so that they can make the best decision that they can. Uh, but I was not a very smart customer in this instance. Um, and I'll give you one more example. I had a customer today who, um, uh, we were talking about a new website, and he said, hey, one thing is, I don't want any stock photography. Well, again, communicating expectations. 99.9% of websites have stock photography on them. I mean, it is unheard of. Even websites you've been to that have authentic 4K, you know, they paid a professional videographer to shoot photography. Uh, you were going to be hard pressed not to find a stock photo on the website. So I didn't belittle the customer. I didn't. It wasn't a problem. But I took that moment to communicate expectations. And what I realized he meant was, I don't want cheap photography. I don't want like the infomercial style, like the random dude in, like, the loose tie who is in an office where people see it and they're like, what is this? Like, it needs to fit, it needs to be clean, it needs to work.

Speaker B: But.

Speaker A: So that's my second point is I think, one, there's a lot of ego in business. And two, I think there is genuinely a lack of communication. A lack of communication, a lack of understanding. You know, going back to this, this reporting company that they say, well, we sent the email. I mean, you sent one email 15 days ago. Do you think the issue is how you choose to communicate it? Like, I had a customer who, uh, for podcastable, who was paying a monthly premium for, um, creating content for them, for doing these podcast, uh, doing the podcast edits for them. Well, uh, in the contract, they pay, It's a monthly fee. They pay it at the start of the month. Well, a, we were getting towards the end of the month and they hadn't sent over any content, they hadn't recorded any podcast content. And so I emailed them proactively. Actually, I called them. I emailed and I called and I said, hey, I, You're. You have this invoice coming out, you have this payment that's automatically coming out and you haven't sent it. I just don't want you getting charged for something you don't plan on using. Now, in that instance, he said, no, go ahead and charge it. It's gonna all be good. But, you know, we're, we're going out of our way to make sure that a customer has a great experience with us, which in the grand scheme of things, who would have been at fault? He would have been. He's the one who, you know, when we signed the contract, he didn't send it over. He didn't communicate, um, you know, on the front end what was going on. But like, this is just what happens. I talked about at the start of the episode. Business changes quickly. Things change quickly. Things, you know, your hair's on fire. I had a company, uh, a, uh, customer I was talking to today where their business just got unverified on Google and they can't get a hold of anyone. You know, I mean, imagine this trillion dollar company that for whatever reason, they can't pay for an accessible support person, right? So like, things happen, you know, things just happen. Things get crazy, they get wild. And so it's not even so much customers communicate poorly. It's just that sometimes everything is on fire. It just is what it is. But you as the business owner, as the service provider, that's an opportunity for you to deliver great customer service. Again, a lot of times people think that customer service is found in these big moments. They made a purchasing decision from you and you sent them a thank you card or you bragged on them, you said, these, this is a great business. You know, everyone come do business with them. But really it's, you know, you're bragging on them because they just paid you a lot of money. It's the small moments, it's the little moments. It's, it's, you know, and honestly, sometimes your customer won't always appreciate it and they won't always notice it and they won't realize what you're doing is not, you know, maybe you're the first person, maybe you're the first marketing agency they've ever paid for and they don't realize, like, hey, we're actually, you're actually getting a pretty premium experience. But like, even if the customer doesn't fully appreciate it, you should appreciate it because you're doing business the right way. It's not about getting pats on the back or, you know, these platitudes or appreciations or like big showy things where someone leaves the big review. I mean, those things are nice to get, but how you choose to do business, it says a lot about you. And it does matter. It does matter. And I, I can't, uh, I can't point to why it matters in the sense of. I'd like to say I used to teach this class at the university. It was an ethics class and we were talking about good decision making and someone said, yeah, I mean, you do the right thing, you make good decisions, because eventually it comes back around. Sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes you lose the customer and there is no, they don't realize it ever. For you were just always the villain in their mind and you always will be. Like our sense of justice, it doesn't always. The good guy doesn't always win. But from a moral perspective, from like a how you do business perspective, like, you just have to choose what your values are going to be and the integrity that you decide to do business for. Now, me personally, I mean, I'm a Christian, I fully believe one day I will be in front of God and he will ask me, he'll say, all right, tell me about this. What was up with this guy? What were you doing? I mean, I don't know how any of this works, but, you know, tell me about what happened here. And I want to be able to say, hey, you know what? Um, I didn't always do the right thing, but I tried. I really tried. I really wanted to. It was really important to me. I really wanted every fiber of my being to be done with integrity and honesty. Honesty and kindness and diligence. Um, you know, I just feel like if you have an appetite for thinking about the way you do business, the net positive is that people really do notice. And more importantly, it's how you build rating fans, it's how you build long term business, it's how you beat build repeat customers. It's the only way to do it. So, um, all right, a little bit of a longer episode today. I appreciate you all. Think about how you're doing business, think about how you're treating other people. And, um, again, I appreciate those of you listening to the podcast. Long term. Uh, that's going to be it today. We'll be back next week for some more good advice. In the meantime, take it easy and I'll catch you later. See ya.