The Culture Killing Habit You’ve Gotta Stop w/ Cas Majid

Speaker A: As the popular saying goes, culture eats strategy for breakfast. But what if you're killing your culture without even realizing it? Kass Majid, multiple time agency founder and CEO of WOW Group and Agency to Agencies, actually found himself in a similar situation. He started to realize that one leadership habit was creating a near toxic work environment in his agency. In Today's conversation with Cas, you'll hear the culture killing habit that led to lower team morale and less client satisfaction. The symptoms that Cas recognized to spot the problem, and how Cas was able to repair his agency's culture. Not to mention how this transformation has now led Cas to a better work life for himself, with more time out of the day to day operations in the agency, allowing him to step away from the agency with less stress. In fact, Cas took time out of trekking through the Himalayas to record while traveling with us on the podcast. It's quite the turnaround story that I think more agency leaders need to hear.

Speaker B: So just recently actually this happened to me. Probably, um, the middle of last year. I found myself, because of the nature of the person that I am, I'm a bit of a perfectionist and I think a lot of leaders have that trait. Um, I actually found that I wasn't very good at managing people operationally when I thought I was, because I knew every part of the business. So what was happening was this need for perfection, this, this drive, which is not a bad thing, this drive to deliver utopia was really affecting my judgment. So much so that my team members, very established team members, would be dreading coming into meetings when I was there. And I think the straw that brought the camels back, uh, was when on one particular occasion with one of my team members, senior team member, I completely and utterly lost the plug saying why are we making these mistakes over and over again? And the reason why we were making those mistakes in context, they weren't as big as I was making them. So my number two, Dennis, he had a quiet word with me and he said, look, I think you probably need to step away from the day to day meetings because eight people aren't talking to you and they close up. And B, the issues that you're highlighting, I'm aware of them, but let me handle them on an operational level. And you know what, at the time it was happening, I knew I was doing it, but I continued to do it because it wasn't a case of I wasn't aware of it, I was actually aware of it. I didn't like the person that I was becoming. And therefore what was happening was it was getting me down as well as getting the team down. And I was the one that was creating a toxic culture in my business, um, for the sake of perfection. And actually, as we know, perfection is nebulous, isn't it? You can't really reach perfection. So I took a step back, which, to be fair, which is what I wanted to do. It wasn't a case of, you know, wanted to hold onto things. I wanted to take a step back. And I took a step back and actually really reflected upon myself and all my communications then went through one person. And that one person was a safe space for me and him. So if he wanted to have a go at me or if he wanted to swear at me or whatever it was between ourselves, you know, we could do that. And what's happened is the team morale has actually become a lot better. I think the other side of it was when you do have senior team members that have been with you for many years, when they start cowering and going into their shells, you know, you've got a problem. Uh, thankfully, thankfully, you know, they didn't leave. I think the other thing as well is what I was also doing, and I think a lot of leaders fall foul of this, is when you've got someone that's really good an A game player in your business and someone doesn't carry out another person, doesn't carry out a task in the way that it should have been carried out, or they do it in the way they think is best, you then put that workload on the A game player and what happens is the A game players start getting a lot of pressure and that's when they leave. And I was doing that as well, saying, we'll just get so and so to do this. I'm not going to mention any names. Taking off one employee and um, giving it to another one. And um, I was doing that quite often in front of people as well. So it became quite toxic.

Speaker A: Yeah, I can definitely relate to that. I've, I've noticed in my own, uh, leadership experience throughout my career that I had to realize that I was a little bit, I was not great, to say the least, at confrontation. And I've, I've heard people talk, uh, about this that when you let kind of a problem go, in this case maybe someone who's underperforming and you know, they've been with you a long time, you don't want to call them out, you maybe you're not comfortable with confrontation, it actually doesn't just damage the business, but it damages team morale because other people are picking up the slack and they're seeing that you're the reason that they're picking up the slack, and so they begin to resent you, to resent the other person. And it can really be a culture killer as much as the. The micromanagement in kind of, uh, where you were saying there. So I think those two can go hand in hand. You said something there I want to come back to in a few minutes, Cass, about you realized what you were doing and you didn't like it, yet you continued. So I want to dig into that. Uh, but before I do, I'm curious for you. You mentioned kind of people withdrawing and kind of going into their shell, as you said, what were some of the other impacts that. That were happening to the business? Whether it comes from a numbers perspective, a client perspective. What were some of the ripple effects that you were noticing that that caused you to finally, you know, step away from and do some reflection here. What were some of the other things that were impacting the business there?

Speaker B: I think. I think it's important to put some context around this.

Speaker A: Sure.

Speaker B: Logan. Is that my intention has and always will be to better the business. It's never about the individual. I've moved on from the place where I'm the business. I've never seen that. And I always look at the business as I'm a custodian of that business, and everyone that works within that business and works within me, with me, is a custodian of that business. So I look at it as a separate end. So I have to do with the best for that, for that entity. It's like a child, right? It's your child, and therefore you have to nurture it. You have to bring it up. What I did is I brought a child into the world and I got it into its teens, and actually it's become a stroppy teenager and it's pushing back and actually needs a different style of leadership and management, which my colleague has. He's much more softer, much more kind of accommodating and much more diplomatic than I am. So coming back to that point of what you've just, just made, or the question that you've just passed, is the result of me thinking that delivery is going to be faster, it's going to be better, it's going to have better quality. You know, me putting pressure on our team to do that, because I'm thinking, right, this is what our customers want. It was actually having the adverse effects, the quality was going down, the delivery times were going out, going, were slipping. And um, I was thinking that we're not managing the expectations of the customer because we were promising things because of the pressure that I was putting on people and it wasn't getting done. And the reason why it wasn't getting done is because of my, my unrealistic expectations of doing something within the workload that we had. So that was the detrimental effect of that. So, you know, you lose, we were losing a little bit of brand equity, you know, and I'm really big on that. That something that comes out of my mouth will always get delivered and it will always keep my promises. That's one thing that everyone knows about me, but I always keep my word. You know, it's been drilled into me by my late father because that's how you build your reputation. So I think part of that was that whole thing of our reputation. Our reputation. Actually what I was doing is having, I was having the adverse effect to the fact that, you know, because customers, they're very accommodating. If you speak to them on a regular basis. I'm really hot on communication. If you speak to on a regular basis and you, and you manage their expectations, then you can increase the timeline in a realistic fashion and still deliver high quality. You know, I'm a great advocate of one of my favorite courses, one from Henry Ford, and he says quality is doing something when no one is looking. And I try to kind of drill that into a lot of my team. But you know, you've got to be proud of what you've done today and the quality of work. Are you proud of it? Um, and I guess it comes back to this whole thing of utopia and um, you know, perfection.

Speaker A: I love that Henry Ford quote that you mentioned there, Cas. And also this idea of perfection. It's something that we've talked about previously on the show with Rob Sayles. He was mentioning how the Kazen philosophy of manufacturing from Toyota impacted his view on agency operations. And also it reminded me, I think they had a mantra, maybe it's still there within Toyota of always better, never perfect or something like that. I might be missing it a little bit, but this idea of continuous improvement, but kind of throwing out the window this idea of utopia or perfection, um, really can help us a ton as agency leaders for sure. So as I mentioned earlier, I did want to come back to kind of that self reflection that you were having because I think, uh, as you mentioned, it can come from a good place. Your Pursuit of perfection at the time was coming from a place of wanting to keep your word, from a place of wanting to deliver value, to do all those sorts of things. But you got to a point where kind of doubling down on the habit that you were recognizing, um, what were some of the things at play there now that in hindsight for other agency owners who might say, yeah, I recognize this, it's no shock, I've felt this as well. What, uh, were some of the things that allowed you to then reassess and move to the next step of making a change there?

Speaker B: I've always been a person that's self reflective and kind of see, how can I do things better? Uh, why did I behave in a certain way? Why did I do something in, why did I react in a certain way? So I've always done that and always kind of seen how I can improve myself. That doesn't mean to say that if you get into something that you're just because you're self reflecting doesn't mean to say that you're still not going to do the thing that you're doing. And I think for me it was, it was trust, it came down to trust and it was trust in my team. Do I have the trust in my team? And actually when I stepped back and um, thought about it, are they coming to work to do a bad job? No, they're not. Do they want to, do they want to want to do a good job and get a fair day's pay for what they do and do they want to improve the business? And the answer to those three questions was yes. So the thing was, and again, when you come from a place of probably perfection and utopia, that creates mistrust within you. So the mistrust within me was being reflected on my staff members. And actually as I stepped back and I went cold turkey, I completely stepped back and what's happened is it's become very light for me. And actually I've become a much better people person. I think I've become a much better people person. I've kind of give people the bandwidth to fail and the bandwidth to learn. And sometimes what happens is. And um, this happens not just to agency owners but to people across the board in business because I've been through all the, the highs and the lows and the good and the not so good. You have reference points in your mind and those reference points either hinder you or make you or improve you. So if I've been through a situation and it didn't work out, that doesn't mean to say that my reference point is correct. That doesn't mean to say that someone else will see the obstacles that are coming because they haven't seen them. So therefore I was always making the assumption that the person that is doing the job should be able to see what's coming. And it was the mic delivery of what's coming that was. Didn't you know that was coming? Or can't you see it? Can't you see that's going to happen if we do X, Y and Z?

Speaker A: So it's coming across in a way of, can't you see this? Haven't you prepared for this? As opposed to, hey, I've been here before. Let me show you about a potential pitfall and how you could kind of walk around it.

Speaker B: It's not what you say, it's how you say it. Right, right.

Speaker A: What's the old, uh, Maya Angelou quoted. People will forget what you said, but they'll never forget how you made them feel. I think that is applicable here.

Speaker B: So. So, yeah, so I think that was, that was a real kind of, um, an epiphany for me to say, to think, well, actually, you know, now what I can do is with my number two, I can actually give him the information, say, and I call it corporate memory. I can give him the corporate memory and say, well, this happened with that particular customer a few years ago. Let's just make sure that we mitigate that risk. Or that happened, or this is what the situation with this particular client. Certain things that customers like, but they don't like and dislike. So now what I do is I relay that to my number two and say, look, this is the situation that happened with this particular customer. So we've got to be mindful of making sure that we don't fall into that pitfall because X, Y, Z might happen. And then he's got a beautiful way of delivering that to our team.

Speaker A: Yeah, I think it ties into something that you were mentioning earlier about looking at the agency like a parent child relationship. And the different stages of development require a different parenting style. And in this scenario, you know, there wasn't a whole lot of corporate memory, as you put it in the early days. And you're just kind of reading and responding and, and going as you go. But then as the, the agency becomes that teenager, as you mentioned, there's more going on, there's more dynamics at play. Um, you know, this just strikes very true as a parent of two teenagers right now. But needing to draw on those past experiences needs to Be delivered in a different way than just, hey, I need to respond to this situation, to this client because I'm involved in the day to day when you know, the agency was that young child as you were talking about. So you've kind of alluded to it, Cas. It started with self reflection, but then the second step for you at least was pulling back, stepping away, handing things over to your number two. What did that process look like and how did you get uh, things to a better place for both you and the team?

Speaker B: It literally was, I made the decision saying, well, I'm not going to turn up at meetings anymore and if I do, I'll dip in maybe once a week, see how things are, ah, give people an update on what's going on, um, and let them carry on what needs to be done. And you know, some of the people that I thought were a game players, they're now stepping up and they've become a game players. You know, it's a bit like the way I look at it is in the UK we've got the Premier League football, right. Uh, we call it football or soccer, may call it.

Speaker A: Right, yes.

Speaker B: So you can, you cannot. And soccer teams, they're not so good ones, they go through different managers all the time and then they hit 1M and um, it's the same team but he's getting more out of them. And I think the skill for me as a leader now is to think, well actually, you know, I'm a great believer in, you know, you don't put square pegs in right up round holes. And I put myself, I was square pegging a round hole. I'd done it to myself in terms of like, I put myself in an operational role because I wanted to know exactly what was going on everywhere. Instead of leaning on the skills of the people that we've employed to do the job that they're supposed to do, let them, let them get on with it and get out of the way. As people say. I was interfering. And I think that process, the process was quite easy for us because what I used to do was I used to make sure that everyone was in our stand up meetings every morning because I wanted other people to know what was going on, different parts of the business, what finance was doing, what sales were doing, what operations were doing, what development were doing and let them all understand how all the pieces fit together, which I think is still a good thing. Um, and because everyone knew my number two was always, always knew exactly what was going on. So the transition for me was a lot easier than it would be to recruit someone, bring someone in, tell them about the business. So he's been in the business with me for quite some time, so. So the transition was, was quite easy. What I found difficult, Logan, was all of a sudden, I had lots of time on my hands. And literally, you know, this has allowed me to spend a month in the Himalayas. I went two weeks to Saudi Arabia. I go to the gym twice a day. I'm like, twiddling my thumbs, thinking, what am I going to? What do I need to do? But it's also allowed me to do the stuff that I really enjoy doing, is to be the face and the brand of the business. So I go to, I do round tables, I talk about stuff like this around tables. I speak to other agencies, we sponsor events. And that's been really good because I enjoy doing that. It, uh, gets me to travel around and get to speak to other agency leaders and get to learn from them. So that's kind of what I do now.

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Speaker B: I speak to other agencies, we sponsor events. And that's been really good because I enjoy doing that. It gets me to travel around and get to speak to other agency leaders and get to learn from them. So that's kind of what I do now.

Speaker A: Yeah, I love your story there because it kind of brings home a point that just a few episodes back, we talked with Jason Swank, who is a former agency owner and does a lot of consulting with agencies in the US and he said there are really only five things that an agency owner should be doing. And one of those five was being the face of the agency, whether that is in marketing the agency or in building strategic partnerships. If you want to check out that episode and the full list of five, we'll link to that one in the episode description, because I think what Kass just shared here is a real life story of what Jason was talking about previously. So after you listen to the rest of this conversation, check it out. If you're watching on YouTube, we'll try and link it in the video in one of these corners here. I love that. And also from my experience, I was part of a leadership team for four years of an agency. And what you're talking about there, Cass, of the good intention of wanting to keep everybody on the same page, everybody informed. The desire to give feedback on things so that you're delivering great value and outcomes for your clients is well intentioned. But the method, not in just how you say it, but in the method of delivery, can make a big difference. And here's one example. I can remember, uh, times when we were running the agency and we had no system for project management and operations and kind of containing all the client work that we were doing. And so what would happen is myself and other members of the team would get random texts from James, the founder of the agency, who I was very good friends with. Like you mentioned, with your leadership team, you've got close relationships, and so it can weather a lot. But I would get these texts that would say, where are we at with this? And it started to kind of grate on me a little bit. It started to create some friction before I realized it. Whereas once we put those things into a system and we started managing our projects and our client work in a system to where I wasn't getting a random text, but it was one, he could check in and see what the status was without needing to ask me, or he could leave a comment there that I wouldn't see kind of after hours or, uh, kind of separate from the work that I was doing, and I would see it midstream. And so those sorts of things for me really made a big difference. So I think to call out for People, the manner in which you deliver that feedback to your team and also the systems and structure that you have to enable that communication can make a huge difference. Any of that kind of ring true for your experience as well, Cas?

Speaker B: Yeah, I think, you know, it's really important to have, you know, good systems and processes and communications. I'm afraid I'm your kind of ex. Colleague. I do check in from, from time to time. That's because I don't really get on with CRM systems or project management systems. It's just one more thing for me to, to think about. But I absolutely advocate that you should have it in your system. So there's this transparency. I uh, mean I'm just a little bit archaic when it comes to that. I just want to quickly slack someone or quickly WhatsApp. And we're saying has that been sorted? And usually what happens is they're very proactive anyway because they'll know they'll probably get a message from me, they'll send it to me. And actually it's very rare that I do that now. I dip in now and again. Um, so before, whereas before it would be kind of relentless, you know, what's going on with.

Speaker A: Right, right. I think the volume of that makes a difference as well because when you were doing that you hadn't handed things to your number two. Now if you're doing that occasionally it's the exception, not the rule. Right. When it was the rule it was maybe too much. And now the rule is you're handling a lot of that communication through your ops leader, through your number two, who's doing kind of most of that. Uh, the majority of it. Right.

Speaker B: And it's part of, it's part of our catch up, you know, so we have a catch up and it becomes part of that. And then kind of. And sometimes as well look, and I forget and I'm getting old, I forget. So it'll randomly pop into my mind whilst I'm driving. I'll pull over and say can you just give me an update on that? And it'll happen. So, so yeah, and kind of, uh, you know, I do speak to customers because I, I do like speaking to, to our customers every now and again just to get that feedback. So, and I, and I do give that feedback to, to the team as well. Say look, this is a conversation that I had go through my number two and then kind of. But what's really good is really good is we get a lot more positive comments from our customers now.

Speaker A: I think it's important what you said there of not losing touch with the day to day with what clients are, uh, experiencing those sorts of things. Because if you completely remove yourself from that, you become the agency owner who, if, if one of your jobs is being the face of the agency, both externally but also internally and casting the vision. How are you going to continually cast the vision if you're not in touch with what's really going on, how clients feel those sorts of things and lead the team through change or pivots that need to happen based on that. So I think that's worth calling out as well. And yeah, there's definitely, you know, the human element of it, of we forget things and those sorts of things. One thing I wanted to ask you, Cas, is some of our listeners right now might say, hey, that's a great story, Cas. I love that you were able to kind of step back, hand over the reins to your number two. But I don't have that person yet. But I'm realizing these same symptoms. What would be some of your advice for someone who's maybe in that scenario?

Speaker B: Funnily enough, someone asked me that just the other day, but it wasn't in agency. But it still applies to agency.

Speaker A: Sure.

Speaker B: The scenario was he's got 100 people within his business and he's feeling, he's feeling as though he's having to do everything, which is really bringing him down, which is what I was. And I said to him, I said, look, I think you probably already got that person within your business right now. You're just going to find it because he was struggling to recruit someone. So the first thing that I always would say is you've probably got someone in your business. He's ready to step up, he's ready to take the reins and he's ready to take the responsibility. It's just probably they haven't asked you or they don't want to approach you out uh, of fear because you might be coming across as, ah, someone that's all controlling. So if someone is thinking about that, uh, have a look at some of the A game players in your business. Some of the people that really get on with everyone, um, that has the respect of everyone, um, they may not be technically really good at what they do, but actually they've got a skill and the people warm to them. Actually that's probably the best person that's going to be your number two.

Speaker A: I love that. So on your list there, Cass, of trying to identify so kind of step number one was don't just think externally, you might have the person internally. And then the second part of that is looking for the right qualities in that sort of person. Are they, you know, an A player. They are, you know, doing what is asked of them. They are exceeding expectations in their current role. They've got maybe an operational bent and they've got good rapport with, with the team. That was kind of the, the list in my mind as you were talking there. I think the other benefit is that they have some of that, as you called it earlier, corporate memory. If they're already within the team, they, they know certain clients, they know the nuances of how you deliver certain services. So to me, that's kind of an added benefit of, uh, looking for that number two internally first. Is there anything else you would add to that list as we're kind of compiling it together here, Cass, on what you would look for in this person to potentially hand over the operational reins to if you're, if you're struggling here?

Speaker B: The other thing that I would, I would strongly recommend is when you're actually looking for a number two, it's a person that you see sticks to timelines, completes a task from start to finish, or sees a task through from start to finish. And if there's a problem along the way, that they will ask questions about how they're going to solve the problem. Not just throw kind of the, uh, throw the towel in. They reframe problems and they look at them as puzzles. That's one thing that I've learned actually just recently, that you should reframe, not use the word problems, but actually look at them as puzzles. Because people enjoy solving puzzles. So the moment you start reframing things like that, the task becomes a lot easier. The thing that's causing the problem becomes a lot easier. When you call a problem a puzzle,

Speaker A: people say reframing problems into opportunities, and I thought that's where you were going. But I almost like problem to puzzle a little bit more. One, because it's alliterative and just, uh, as a marketer, I always love an alliteration that can help us, you know, increase the memory retention. But also it reminds me of this TED Talk I heard that was like describing if you had this panel in front of you and, um, you had to press these buttons in a certain sequence and it kind of felt like a test. Right? Well, what if that those buttons were on a little handheld controller that you had, and what if that controller was, you know, on a screen and then you had a little avatar on the screen? That you were controlling with those buttons to try and press them in the right order to accomplish something. Well, now all of a sudden you've taken that test or that task and you've turned it into a video game. Right. And reframing that, now we'll spend hours playing that video game because it's kind of been gamified versus it sounds like we're doing some psychological torture test or something of standing in a dark room and trying to press these buttons in the right order or else we're going to, you know, get zapped or something like that. And so that's kind of the, maybe a little bit of an aside, but I think that's an extreme example of taking, uh, a problem, turning it into a puzzle or taking a test and turning it into, you know, a video game. And the folks that can do that and can help the team kind of do that sort of reframing, I think make great operations leaders because they can see the processes, those sorts of things, but they can lead people through those challenges at the same time. Awesome. Well, Cas, this has been a great conversation. I want to transition now to our final two segments that we always have here on the podcast. We've got our rapid fire round, uh, what we call our agency Life Fast five, and our Good Shout. So you ready for our rapid fire round, Cass?

Speaker B: Okay, let's go for it.

Speaker A: All right, let's do it. Number one, I always love to see where people would put extra budget if they just had the dollars, uh, right now for their agency. If someone gave you an extra 10k a month, another 120 grand for the year. Where do you think you would invest that right now if you had it to spend on the agency right now?

Speaker B: I would probably invest it in improving and bettering the people that we've already got. Yeah.

Speaker A: M. I love it. All right, Cas, what are some of your all time favorite business books that you're find yourself recommending especially to other agency owners?

Speaker B: Oh, wow. It's really good. It's really good question. I would say, um, think and Grow Rich is always a classic. Classic book. Psycho Cybernetics by Maxwell Moltz, which is the precursor to nlp, talks about neural programming. And um, I would also say one more book that M. I've just read, which is do you know what I've just read? I've just read the Secret. You know, I'm running to Manifestation. It is quite repetitive, but I thought it was a great book.

Speaker A: Okay. I love it. Rounding out with a nice List of three to add to our growing list of book recommendations here on Agency Life. Thank you for that, Cas. All right, here is, uh, my favorite of the Fast Five cast. What's one mistake you've made in running your agency that you're never going to forget?

Speaker B: Oh, so many, so many. One mistake. It's a really good question. I think. It's not a mistake. You have to. If something, you have to trust your gut instinct. Every time I've gotten against my gut instinct about something or a scenario, it's always turned out bad, you know, always.

Speaker A: I think that's fair to say. I've heard that in this segment from past guests, you know, related to, uh, taking on that client that you just feel like is not the right fit or hiring that person that you just kind of hope they can step into that role, but you just don't feel it in your gut. So I think you're in good company there, Cass. All right, number four, what do you think is the single hardest part about agency life?

Speaker B: The single hardest part about agency life? I do love what I do.

Speaker A: That's right. We're going to give you the flip side of this. I'll give you a preview. Number five is the best part. So don't feel like we're going to

Speaker B: end on a negative note, I think. I think the hard part is the thing that make it really, really good. Because without the hard part, you're not going to learn, are you? So I've kind of turned that, that kind of thing into a scenario. But I think having the hardest pies is the balance, you know, between being a father and a partner, with being a business owner. And sometimes you miss your children growing up. I did that quite a lot. I've spent a lot of time out, uh, but now make time to make sure that I'm there for my children. Yeah.

Speaker A: Yeah. Well, I love to hear that second part of it. So would you say, number five, the best part of agency life is the challenges that you get to go through, the puzzles that you get to solve.

Speaker B: Well, life would be so, so boring. Wouldn't be so vanilla if you didn't have challenges, you know, And I think throughout my life, I've always gone, you know, if the sheep have gone north, I've always gone south. You know, stuff part and parcel of. Of. Of who I am and kind of, you know, not looked at convention and thought, I'm going to follow the herd. Actually, I've always gone the other way. And I think with that comes challenges. But with that comes innovation, and with that comes resilience, and with that comes experience and wisdom. And wisdom doesn't come without suffering. Wisdom does come through suffering. So, uh, I think that's the bit that I look back on now. It might be at the time where you think, well, actually, this was so, so, so difficult. But when you've gone through it, like going to the gym, right. The hardest part of going to the gym is getting there. And then you do the workout and you think, well, you know what? Uh, I did a really good workout and I feel really good after it. But then there's. Sometimes you go to the gym and you think that workout was shocking, but actually you got through it. And, um, agency life is like going to the gym. You know, some days you're not going to feel. Most days you're not going to feel like getting up and going, doing it, but you got to do it anyway. And, you know, inch by inch, day by day, month by month, year, um, by year, you're growing as a person and your agency's growing. And I think that's what you've got to do. You know, you can't be looking at anyone else. You know, comparison is always the thief of joy. Right? And I felt. I love that quote as well. It's one of my favorite ones. Plus the other one is, um, by Voltaire, which is Don't Make Good the Enemy of Perfect, which talks about. Or the Toyota principle, right? So, um, so, yeah, so I think, you know, be better than you were the day before. Simple as that. That's all you can do.

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. I think that ties, Ties nicely into the conversation we've had here today. And, uh, you know, one of the things, uh, that I love is so often on the show, we get to shout out people that have impacted, uh, our own agency life. So I want to make sure we end with that final question, as we always do here. Cast, who's one person who's really impacted your journey in and through agency life that you want to give a shout out to today?

Speaker B: I don't think it's just so much in agency life is just generally in life. And, um, it's my father. I lost my father two months ago. Um, and he was my hero.

Speaker A: I'm sorry about that.

Speaker B: He was my hero, absolute hero. Um, he lived to a very good age of 91, and he told me three things. Uh, you know, the first thing is, is always play the game with people that are better than you, because that's how you raise your game. The second thing is if you're smartest, if you're the smartest person in the room, you need to get out. You're not going to learn. And the third thing is always leave people better off than when you first found them.

Speaker A: I love those three. I think your, your father was a wise man, Cass. And I love that when we have those sort of shout outs that turn very personal. And I think, uh, it's reflected that some of that wisdom seeped into you. And, uh, although we're not perfect, as you just said from that great quote just a moment ago, we can seek that continuous improvement. And I appreciate the candor in which you shared your story of continuous improvement as an agency owner, because I think it's going to help others who are dealing with those same sort of puzzles, uh, we'll say, rather than, uh, rather than problems, uh, right now in their own journey in Agency life. All right, Cas, for anybody listening to this, who wants to stay connected with you and your team, what's the best way for them to reach out and stay connected as we wrap up today?

Speaker B: Well, I'm all. I'm on all the platforms, but my. The majority of the platforms that I, that I'm active on is, um, Instagram. You can find me as castmagic and LinkedIn.

Speaker A: I love it. We'll link to both of those in the episode description. As always, everyone. Well, Cas, I really appreciate you making time for this conversation as you're trekking through the Himalayas as we zoom back in on some pivotal moments in your own journey through agency life. Thank you so much for spending time with us today.

Speaker B: Thank you so much, Logan. Take care.

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