129: Beyond material success...with...Amrit Dhaliwal

Speaker A: Foreign. After dinner leadership. Welcome to Amrit Dhaliwal, uh, who is the CEO and founder, uh, of Walfinch. Welcome, Amrit.

Speaker B: Hi, Simon. Thank you for having me on the show.

Speaker A: It's a pleasure. We have this virtual dinner table around which we're sitting. And I love to find out what food can you imagine on this table that would remind you of your childhood?

Speaker B: So I grew up in a immigrant household. And, uh, the. The food, dinner was always, you know, Indian food. It was, uh, you know, chapatis, um, and there'd be one or two, uh, vegetable dishes and one or two, um, maybe chicken or something. And, uh, you know, if it was a real party, it might be some red meat. So, uh, um, you know, some Indian curries, basically is kind of what would take me back to my childhood, for sure.

Speaker A: Was there a particular, you know, is there one that you go to now that always reminds you of your parents or that were caring for you at that time?

Speaker B: Yes, it's a wonderful question, actually, and it gives you a warm sort of nostalgic feeling inside already just thinking about it. But, um, there's this, uh, keema, um, which is like a minced meat, uh, which my mother used to make. And it was my favorite growing up. Um, but, yeah, simple. But that's right.

Speaker A: It typically is. Every time I ask that question, it is usually very simple dishes. Um, and, um, that's great. And maybe whilst we're there, because I can maybe see in your eyes some things lighting up here. We're going to talk about leadership and your lessons in a moment. What have you learned from your home about leadership? If you can go back to those early years, those teenage years. What were you noticing in that time?

Speaker B: I mean, I had a very. Some practical lessons, actually, because my parents had businesses. They went through, you know, went from factory work all the way to, you know, being retired at 50. Um, and what, uh, was really interesting for me was watching them in their place of business. But I was also involved in that. Go off to school, maybe take care of the shops when they were away. But I remember I was about 18 years old, and I remember, um, something that my father said. We were moving house, and I was helping him unpack and saying, well, okay. His paperwork, he thinks, is very organized. I may have different opinions. And, uh, we're sort of unpacking. I was like, well, dad, this is junk, of course, and it's just old pay slips. And it was from when he used to work at, um. I think it was like a Mars factory.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And he said, no, no, uh, I need to keep that. And I was like, why on earth do you need to keep this? And he, and he said to me, there's this wonderful word in Punjabi. Um, and essentially what it translates as is understanding your. It's one word, but it translates as knowing where you came from. And he said, this is a reminder of that. And actually, and what he said to me at that point was, when you go out in the world of industry, know that everybody's on an equal footing, whether it's a cleaner or the CEO, you know, treat everybody with, uh, respect, because actually you just don't know when you might be one or the other of those and you might go from one to the other. Um, and I thought it was a very humbling moment and a very humbling lesson that, uh, he taught.

Speaker A: Brilliant. I love that. What's the word? I won't recognize it. I'm just interested to hear what it is.

Speaker B: The word is okada.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: So, yeah,

Speaker A: don't ask me to spell it, but I love the sound of that and I love the sentiment of it. Actually. The meaning is rich, isn't it? And, uh, I totally concur. Great wisdom from your father there. Thanks, Samra. I appreciate you sharing that. And, um, for those that don't know what Wolf Inch is, could you give us a little snapshot into the nature of the business that you're running?

Speaker B: Wolfinch is a home care business. So we provide care for older people in their own homes. And what I've done is I've, uh, scaled Wolf Inch through the power of franchising. And actually, I was talking about this earlier today with my team that what we are not is just a care business. We are really a movement within the care sector. What we talk about is time to thrive. We talk about aging not being your final chapter, but the beginning of the next chapter. And really, that is the whole sentiment of it. I sort of look at it as a wellness brand for older people that we, you know, have the pleasure of franchising.

Speaker A: Yeah, great. Well, that's. I. I love that. And certainly in the things that I've been learning about you, I love this alternative view. You're bringing in a fresh perspective into, into the way that you're looking at business. And that's a great example of it. Um, I'd love to dip in now to these lessons that you've learned or wish that you'd learned earlier, actually, maybe. What. What three lessons do you wish you'd learned earlier?

Speaker B: I think there's lots of Lessons actually. But if I were to go through my top three, I think number one is getting the right people around you. I was reading this great article in the business section in Sunday Times, uh, uh, yesterday and it was about the golden cage and talking about founders and entrepreneurs that get stuck in a golden cage. And he was referring to this gentleman that had 100 million pound hotel business. But he was stuck, he couldn't sell to private equity because then he'd be sold with it and have this long kind of earn out. He couldn't really take the time out because he was really stuck in the operations because he didn't have a professional exec team. And so I think having the right people around you from early doors, from the bit where you can't really afford it I think is super, super key. Um, understanding number two is understanding how money works and understanding the difference between cash flow and profit and really understanding well, okay, well how do I squeeze the value of a pound? And one of the things I've got quite sort of good at uh, over the years is saying well, oh, we want a financial director, but actually well can we really afford that salary? Maybe not right now. So what could we do to make that work and really understand the creative angle around saying if I want X, you know, I want to do this marketing strategy or whatever it might be, how can I do it? Um, that won't hurt me but really because I understand the flow of money. And then number three, I suppose I did a lot of this growing up, but I could have done more of this and I think the using all of the facilities around me to learn from. So whether that is in today's money, that's, podcasts are great. I mean they, they weren't really around when I was 18. Um, so I think podcasts, books, I remember, you know, the sort of similar thing was sort of having business CDs back then.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: Um, uh, all of a sudden I feel very old, um, you know, remembering my Paul McKenna CD that I used to listen to at university. Um, but you know, and YouTube was around of course, but, but actually you know, I think there's this, of information that's there but I started getting mentors and um, guides for my journey. But I probably started that later in the journey than I probably should have. And I think if I think about Wolf Inch, I started the business with a business coach that ah, has 35 years of experience within the franchise sector which means I cut some corners, maybe not all of them but um, but, but I did certainly cut some Corners.

Speaker A: Right, right, great. Those are, those are excellent. Let me play those back to you. So we've got this idea of getting the right people around you actually early. Um, and I love that phrase, you probably saw me smile. It's like, even if you're not sure if you can afford them, you know, second, how understanding the way money works, the flow of money, and making sure that to really, uh, understand that, to to be able to get the different angles, creative angles, and how you, um, do your business. And then lastly, using all the resources, the facilities around you as part of that learning you've mentioned towards the end, mentors, guides, um, and my sense is there's a bit of that human in person type conversation and then you've got the things of people you may not know through a podcast or a YouTube video. But there can still be a great resource to you if you, if you draw upon them. Yeah, those are, those are the main things.

Speaker B: Yeah, no, truly. And I think maybe number three is in many ways one of the most important. If you're at the beginning of the journey because there's so much free available content now that you could listen to hours and hours and hours of it and be, you know, theoretically, you know, well versed, and then you can then go off and find the right mentor and guide and doesn't have to cost you lots of money. I think it's. If you ask people, they will support you. And I think actually the really interesting thing that I think about is thinking you probably want, uh, two people, one person that is really far ahead, that just wants to, uh, part with their war stories and no one's listening to them anymore. And that's great because you're there and you'll learn from it. But also the other person that is just two steps ahead. They're not like a million miles ahead. They're just a couple of steps so they can, you know, their information is really recent. They get it. They know because it can literally remember last year I was in your pain. This is what I did.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: So I think, I guess in the

Speaker A: context of, of today, the technology of someone 30 years ahead of you might be a completely different landscape in terms of how they might go about the business today, for example, than what they might have had to have done, uh, 30 years ago. Some basic principles will be the same, but the reality of them, what's happening in the market and how things have shifted perhaps since that time could be, uh, useful.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker A: Um, yeah, I mean, let's, let's stay, let's Stay there a little bit more. I mean, you mentioned this individual that you've, you had early on, uh, in setting up Wolf Inch. What was, what were the characteristics? How did you know that he was somebody you wanted to ally with and help, um, support you?

Speaker B: Yeah, hilariously. His name is Simon as well actually. M. Um, but um, ah, I think there's a lot of people in this market, in this kind of consulting coaching market that are, you know, a little bit shit, to be honest. Simon, I'm allowed to use that word. Um, and I think there's a lot of people that actually you probably don't want to listen to and you have to hone your sniff testing, um, over time and probably get burnt a couple of times along the way. What. From my perspective, I was um, a few businesses in by the time I started wolfing and I sort of think that I have honed in that skill, uh, of understanding, well, does this person actually know what they're talking about or not? Yeah, I think really kind of getting to the point of, um, you know, can this person help move my needle? Because if they can't, I, you know, if it's not going to change the number, forget about it. You know, you don't need the theory of it. So I sat down with this chap, um, and we had a coffee and initially, uh, I was just asking lots of questions and just seeing where his answers were. Was he giving me lots of fluff or was he actually getting to the brass tax and really kind of getting under hood and saying, well, you uh, know, we do this and we do that and here's the issue and so on so forth. And, and I thought it was really interesting, like listening to his answers, it was clear to me that he understood the, the heart of the issue. And, and I said, right, great. So, so we, then I, I bought a little bit and I said, well, okay, I'd like to just dip my toe in and see. And it really quickly became a much bigger relationship. And, and that's, it's really intriguing. I mean it doesn't always happen like that. Other people that I've dipped my toe in and they've just been accountability partners and that's it. You know, they've been great for the two hours a month that I associate with them. But then there's others much like this Simon who, who really kind of is someone I speak to most days, actually. You know, I don't know if you've ever watched Billions, but uh, no, I've not. There's this character in There who's like a psychiatrist for all of the traders. And I, and I often laugh with Simon that you're like her, you sort of get your head straight, uh, and send them off again. I'm like, great, you know, you need that. I think in business often.

Speaker A: Well, that was, that was going to be one of the questions that was forming actually was what is, what is that relationship? What value is that bringing that you're not able to perhaps do your on your own? Like why, yeah, why bring this person in? What is it that he's adding?

Speaker B: You know, I think one of the biggest things is honesty. And what I find as a founder, as a CEO, is that, uh, it's hard for people to tell me I smell and actually I understand that. But I've always been a business owner. I've owned my own business since I was 22 years old. So I worked for someone for eight months and the rest of it was all self employed. And what I realized, really early doors. And I grew up with parents who had their own businesses. So I've always been acutely aware that you have to allow people to speak to you freely and you have any. And it won't be like colleagues and it won't be like your siblings, but you know, you have to kind of get to the heart of it before someone tells you the honest truth. And so having someone like this around has meant that actually he'll tell me six months before the thing that everyone is thinking and I'm like, great, so I can now fix that and do something about that or before it actually happens. And I think having someone that isn't afraid to have the honest conversation is really important. So certainly there's that. The other part of it is, is really the accountability partnership saying, well, okay, I, as a, as a founder, there's 100 things I could be spending my time doing, but actually maybe three of them will be the thing that will impact the bottom line, um, both for me and my franchisees. And so they are the three things I should be focusing on. But the other 97 might be way more fun and might bring me personally more joy, but the greater good is in the three things that I don't necessarily want to do today. And having that kind of accountability partnership is certainly the thing that you kind of need to say, well, keep my feet on the fire. And the last thing I'd say is it's emotional, it's really lonely running your own business actually, and having somebody that you can pick up the phone and just rent to, um, Sometimes. And you know, what do you want from me here? Do you want me to advise or do you want me to just listen and coach? You know, and, and sometimes it will be one or the other and other times you just want to kind of lighten the load. But you can't speak like that to your team, you can't speak like that to your clients and so on. I think the interesting thing about being a leader is that you have to do the opposite all the time. So if your team is down in the dumps, you need to be high energy and say, no, we can do this, and off we go. And if they are really high energy because they've hit the number, great, great, great. You need to bring them down to earth and say, hold on a second guys, thank you. We've celebrated now, the next quarter's here. So it's actually quite emotional because you're constantly doing the opposite to everyone.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, no, I appreciate that and I can resonate with some of those feelings that you're expressing there. You've just put a little bit of rewind, a couple of minutes back to your 22 year old self. Did you say yes? And that's immediately intriguing for me. Uh, what was going on that said? Well, I've heard a conversation you've had with somebody else to say that you realized you were unemployable was the phrase that you used in that conversation. And I'd love to just understand what was going on for you as a 22 year old deciding, actually no, I'm going to come out of an employed role and go down a self employed route because many would argue that was quite a brave move at that age. Could, uh, you just share a little bit into what was going on for you there?

Speaker B: I think from my perspective, I, um, I just couldn't work for somebody. It just wasn't something that I was really willing to do. I mean I did it as, as a tick box exercise, but I was just like, I'm not gonna live my life like this. I just can't, you know, live with someone.

Speaker A: How did you know that? Amorett, like what was going, was, was there conflict? Was it internal? Was it internal?

Speaker B: It was always, I've always felt like that, uh, my first business, I started when I was 10 years old actually selling Ryan Gig Playground and you know, and I had various other, you know, ventures. I found myself in Budapest in my second year of university saying, I think the property market's hot here. I think I can get some student loans and buy a property and luckily the market crashed before I had parted with that money. Um, and you know, but for me, I just never wanted a real job, as I used to call it. And I couldn't think of anything worse than turning up to an office at 9 o' clock and then leaving that office at 5 o' clock and then curling up again the next day at 9 o' clock and then leaving at 5 o'. Clock. And then every three months someone sits me in a room and says, good boy, bad boy. I just, you know, it blew my mind that this is how people spend lives. And actually my nephew, who is 23, just turned, um, has just gone into the world of work. And when he graduated I just gave him a big hug and I just said, I'm so sad for you. Just like, so, you know, you've got all of this to look for, forward to, you know. And I just, I just thought, gosh, it's actually really hard work until you find your path and you understand, well, I've kissed some frogs now. I'm good at this thing. And that might be employment. You know, it never motivated me. Um, and uh, I, because I just always sort of looked at everyone. I remember this, this line manager that used to sit next to me, really nice guy, Patrick, his name was, and he earned a phenomenal amount of money and he was only in his late 20s. And he said one day, and he said this to me, loads, one day I'm going to open a restaurant. And I was like, patrick, you've been earning like mid six figure numbers for years and you live on your own. I know you don't spend that much money. Why one day, you know, and he's like, well, you know, I just, I've got this and um, I've got that to do, but one day I'm going to do it. And I just saw, God, I, I hope I don't turn out like that, you know, because I'd rather earn half the money but be able to turn up when I want. And yes, I have the flexibility of working 168 hours a week whenever I feel like it's my choice. Right?

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I think that's the reality. Well, I'm glad you mentioned that. That's a nice way of putting it. Yeah, but you're doing it on your terms, I guess, and uh, feeling like it's more, uh, of a choice than,

Speaker B: well, I'm building an asset, right? It's my asset. I'm not building someone else. And you know, if tomorrow I think, screw this I'm out. Um, I'm able to sell that asset and there's some value in that. It's what I say to my franchisees. You're building your own asset. Now, I've got a meeting with one of our franchisees, our early doors franchisees tomorrow. He'll do best part of 2 million pounds of revenue this year. And you know, he's done, he's been a lawyer, he's been in finance, but he's never been able to drop his kids to school or walk his dog in the middle of the day. And now he'll earn, you know, again, mid six figure, uh, um, dividends and be able to walk his dogs, play with his kids, pick him up from school. Okay, you know, I know which, which one I do. And yes, there's going to be a couple of years of beans on toast and it's more stressful actually because you've got more to lose. But tomorrow he decides to sell, he could sell it for forex. The profitability. Right. It's not bad.

Speaker A: Yeah. And I guess this starts, uh, this taps in a little bit to your second point as well. Maybe we can go there for a moment. We've gotten all sorts of other different places for a while, but talk to me about where you would recommend someone to start to understand how money works. Maybe, uh, it's linked to the third point, of course, but you mentioned this as a lesson you wish you'd learned earlier. What? It sounds like you had a good grasp of economics from a 10 year old. I guess. What, um, what would you recommend for someone to understand the flow of money?

Speaker B: Yeah, there's this lovely book which I haven't read for years and I may just pick it up again, but it's called Profit first and I don't know if you've come across it.

Speaker A: I haven't.

Speaker B: It's a great book. M. I want to say it's by a chap called Mike Kloskowski, if I can. I can't pronounce his surname properly. And it talks about having um, I think five different bank accounts essentially. And, and it's about taking, taking your bit first and saying, okay, this is what I need. And then what is reverse engineering the, the P and L and I. I like it because it's a little bit out there, but also, um, it, you know, it talks about entrepreneurial poverty which I'm sure most entrepreneurs certainly small businesses have, have encountered. And you know, I think that is a really important piece to really kind of look at. If I've got £100 coming into the business. How does that flow? You know, is five pounds coming to Emirates fund money, five pounds going to um, uh, you know, looking at some saving, 20 pounds going to the tax and so on and 20 pounds going back into the business. I think understanding things like that would be really great. So it is unconventional. It isn't the way that the accountants look at it. Um, but I think that's a great book. Uh, I think then also really understanding your own economics. And there was a very scary statistic that I heard recently of £27 a day of expenditure is £10,000 a year. And I was like, hold on a second. Know, I spent £15 on a lunch the other day, uh, in passing and, and about sort of a 10 on a couple of coffees throughout the day. And I thought, you know, hold on. And you just sort of think, well okay, and what could you do with that? If I was rather uh, making my lunch from home, taking it into uh, and putting that money into, huh, a sort of tracker fund and link that compound, you know, and really sort of understanding simplicity of things like that. And, and there's some, some great literature out there, there's some great speakers out there that I think are worth listening to. So getting into podcasts, maybe picking up with financial advisors if they're ever doing a talk or things like that and saying, well, okay, the thing that my 23 year old nephew has on his side is time. So if he were to put £100 away today and then say, well let me put that in a tracker fund, it might increase by 5 or 10% a year and I've got £100 going into it every month over 30 years. What does that number look like? You know, and maybe I increase that number, ah, a little bit every year. But £100 you probably won't note going, but it will mean something quite meaningful later. So I really think just very practical things like that, because those practical things can change the way you live. And the thing I'm seeing more now is on the other end of it, they give you choice when you're older. Yes.

Speaker A: Yeah, brilliant. Thank you. That's, that's really useful. And I, one of the things that I would love to just explore is what made you go down the franchising route? What was it about that from an entrepreneur that was interesting to you?

Speaker B: You know, initially I thought it was a bit of a scam. Um, and I thought, God, it's on this franchising, why m. Am I giving someone money that I Could just do it myself. And, and it was my, my now wife, my then girlfriend that suggested home care to me in the first place. I was only about 25 years old at the time, and, um, and I had no idea what the hell it was. And so we'll go and speak to these franchisors. And so I did a bit of research and I went all around country, speaking of franchise or went, met them and so on. And, and really what, what struck me for this sector specifically was the red tape around it. And I thought, well, actually I'd quite like someone holding my hand with that. And. And then when I got in, I thought it was a bit broken, it was a bit archaic, both franchising and home care. Which is why I then built that business, sold it, started Wolf Inch. Because I just kind of looked at it and I thought, is this the McDonald's service? You know, are people from random sectors falling into this and learning how to build and scale profitable businesses? Because again, I was in my. I was 25 when I bought a franchise. And, and then, and that was in 2012. And I, I sold it four or five years later, um, in, in 2018. And, um, and then I started. And then I started Wolf Inch, uh, around then. Um, and, and so my, my point really is that it's really kind of looking at that and saying there's tremendous power in franchising if you are backed by the right franchisor. Yeah, it can really cut out years of those early days and that pain.

Speaker A: Yeah. Okay, great. So what is it that you used to value? What is something that you used to value that you no longer value as

Speaker B: strongly in life or in business?

Speaker A: Let's keep it whatever you wish to go.

Speaker B: I think stuff, um, you can put this in both categories. You know, you sort of. I grew up as, um, as I said, an immigrant family, and so you don't have loads of stuff. Right. You know, um, and the other kids have stuff that you don't have. And as you get older, that stuff gets more fancy. And, and so I remember, you know, going through uni and thinking, well, okay, well, great. I was in my same gray tracksuit, uh, that I'd hit the gym in and all of that sort of thing. And, um, and. And I left University of Ron's in these shiny suits and their Rolexes and all of the, all of the cool stuff. And then, you know, a few years go pass and you're able to get some of that stuff. And it's like, well, this is amazing. And you have that, that day of, of, you know, euphoria. But then it's all a bit of a letdown after that, uh, because you think, well, now I've got the responsibility of taking care of this stuff and insuring this stuff. And actually I live in London, so I'm worried about someone, you know, ripping my arm off for this stuff. And, and then you also realize that you. Does it matter? And then, you know, after that you have a couple of kids, which I've, I've had and, well, my wife's had and, um, and. And you sort of really realize what is important in life. And what I really think is important in life is relationships and actually kind of going and reverse engineering that. It's lovely having, having the stuff and maybe some of the stuff. But really, if that is what your driver is, I think that's a problem. And for me, the driver is very much about where I spend my time. And being able to do 80% of the school pickups is really important to me, as opposed to being able to do the school pickups in a new Porsche, which is very nice if that's what you're up to. But if I had to pick one, if I couldn't do both, then, uh, I know which I'd pick.

Speaker A: You framed the, the first as a, as a problem. Help me explore that a little bit more. I, I concur. I'd love to just get you thinking, what, what is. Why is the stuff as the end game, a problem in your eyes? What's the problem of that?

Speaker B: Yeah. Yes. So. So, um, and that's as well, well spotted on, on the wording there. I think the problem for me is that as an entrepreneur, um, if your focus is purely arbitrary on a number, then you will cap out because, okay, maybe that number's 200, 300, 500, a million pounds. But once you've earned that, well, great, I've hit that number. And then your business stagnates or fails because, well, I don't need any more and you know, I'm going to keep it steady. But guess what? There is no steadiness in business. It's either up or down. There is no this. Um, and if you're this, then that really means that you're down. Um, so, so that's business and in life, I think, you know, and actually just finishing that point, in fact, I think the important thing in business is, is being able to solve a purpose. Now, I don't care if your business is paper clips, but if you are passionate about putting two Pieces of paper together tightly and neatly and you have a purpose in that. Great. You know, focus on that, being the best at that. And, and, and that will, will focus on, on building the driver. And once you do that, the EBITDA will come in in your personal life. For me, the problem is that if your focus is always the stuff, it usually means that there's lots of other things missing and those other things are, uh, meaningful relationships. And you know, I, I remember when I was in the, on the dating scene, I would really make a point of, of not doing the I'll buy you a drink or I'll take you out for dinner. Because I was like, well actually no, you know, in fact I won't buy you a drink and we definitely won't be going out for dinner. So let's figure out what we can do here also. Because I couldn't afford to. Right, yes, yes. Which is also quite helpful, um, for me to be so, uh, you know, uh, high with the integrity there. And so whereas, you know, and then you sort of think, well, I go out with my wife a lot.

Speaker A: Um.

Speaker B: M. You know, that's one of the things I enjoy doing the most. And I'm sort of of the view that I can kind of do two things really well. I can either be a family man and an entrepreneur really well, or a friend and an entrepreneur really well. I don't think I can do all three. So, you know, my friends have had to take a slight back seat at the moment and so, so I really enjoy going out with my wife. Now we go to all ends of the spectrum of restaurants and we have an amazing time and spend lots of money and we have an amazing time and spend no money.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: The point is we have an amazing time and, and sometimes that, you know, added to the fact that there is some really wonderful dishes coming out the kitchen. But other, but most of the time, frankly, you know, if you don't have the relationship there, uh, this stuff is irrelevant. You know, if I'm, if I'm at that dinner and we're arguing, but there's a Michelin star meal and you know, £400 bottle of wine, it's irrelevant. You know, I'd rather be a flatiron for a ten pound steak. Um, and so it's, it's kind of really understanding where the problem is. And I think the problem is, is, is relationships and, and there is a, a lack of focus on that um, as a, as a general community. And I see that with older people, um, and I see that with myself in. In many respects as well. And these are things I really focus on and think about. Well, you know, how are my relationships? Am I happy with where they are? Do I need to spend more time with certain people? Should I. Or should I have a conversation with them and say, hey, this is where my head's at? Because, you know, clarity is kindness. This.

Speaker A: Yeah. Wow. Wonderful. And. And I. I agree with that, um, a lot. And I think there's something. I was speaking. I was with my brother, one of my brothers, at the weekend, and, um, we grew up one of 11 children, so not an immigrant family, but, uh, we. We were in a large family. And so I was. One of the things we were talking about is, like, the lack of stuff. And that was passed around, like, hand me downs. I was. I was. Boy number. We get this, right? Boy number five. And so, uh, you know, I inherited some clothes from my older siblings by

Speaker B: the time we got to you.

Speaker A: Yes, absolutely.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: I've got a good story about some school trousers that rip from knee to knee one day. You know, they've been through five of my siblings. Anyway, that was, uh. Yeah, so I couldn't relate to many of those things. And. And it was interesting also, this brother I was speaking to was nearly died last year, so he had pancreatitis, acute pancreatitis, and in a hospital in Barcelona. And. And was very close to death. And, uh, we were talking about that over the weekend was just some of the reflections on that. And he's used the same word, actually. Stuff doesn't. Doesn't appeal to me anymore. Like, there's so many other things that are so much more important than stuff when you're face to face with that, um, you know, with your own mortality, I guess. And so often in life, it's those crisis moments that makes us think more deeply about those things. Um, and going to the funeral and that kind of stuff is a point of reflection, isn't it? So. Yeah. Um. Wonderful. Well, the other thing that occurs to me, Amrit, is it feels a little bit like we've come almost full circle back to this, knowing where you came from.

Speaker B: Yeah. I know you've.

Speaker A: I've asked you specifically about your parents and your family, but it feels like there's. I. I may be jumping to conclusions, but there's some elements that feels deeply rooted in the lessons that you learned as a child, as a teenager, that feel to echo through your life. I hope I'm not misjudging that, but it just feels. Feels like. Yeah, there's Some really resonant stuff to you as a, as a child.

Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, you know, I, I, I had a lovely childhood. I mean, it wasn't, um, I, I sort of compare my childhood to my wife's childhood and hers was magical and mine was great, you know, and it was, mine were just fine. Um, but, but it was really, I, I, you know, it was all. Maybe I kind of grew up too quickly as well with it. But, but what was really interesting were the things that you learn along the way and you see along the way and um, and yeah, I think they really impacted how I am as a human. But, but um, you know, I got my, my daughters a couple of cupcakes yesterday and, and they, they had, you know, they're in this holding. They were like, oh, can I have a receipt? And so I got two receipts printed, gave one to each of them and um, and they were, well, it was three pounds, you know, it doesn't really mean anything to them. And um, I was like, well, no, actually that's, it's, you know, £3 50 each. And then you got some taxes and actually I've passed with £12 50. And I said, you know, do you know how long it takes a care worker to, to buy two of these cupcakes? And they were like, well, how long? I was probably almost two hours actually. When you take into account that they got to give the government some money and you know, certainly one and a half, um, and really just trying to kind of, I mean, it's really hard, it's an arbitrary thing for children, but trying to kind of pass a little bit of that on because if they want something, they ask, they invariably receive it. And I think part of the problem that I have now, and I think my generation of immigrants kids have, is that you, uh, from our parents, it was inbuilt. You know, they couldn't afford it anyway, so, and they couldn't, they couldn't afford to part with that. And so, you know, lessons were learned and you learned about how to kind of squeeze the pips out of everything and you know, the trousers that you had that were passed down and so on and really, you really thought about that. I remember my school blazer. It was awful. Uh, it was awful. I had this blazer and I had lying on badge, but of course my badge was, was a badge that had been through the wash from one of my older sisters, ripped off hers and then pressed onto mine. It was bobbly and it was a mess. And you know, kids were like, what the hell Is it? Theirs was pristine, clean, pressed down. Mine for five years was just horrible. You know, it would be pulled off to be put onto the next blazer and you know, but the point was that uh, actually, you know, so those lessons were inbuilt for me, but they're not for the next generation. And I think it's a really important thing. It's something I think about a lot to think, well, you know, what I don't want to do is raise entitled children because they only burden the system, they don't support it and help it if they've, if, you know, hopefully they'll have some resources and so on. But what are they going to do with that? Is that going to go on the Ferrari fund or are you going to go and try and help someone else and do something good?

Speaker A: Yeah, well, that's a good place to leave the conversation and uh, I, I'd love to um, find out how do people get in contact with you? I'm gonna. If they want to explore this a little bit more.

Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, you know, so the Wolfinch Franchising.com website I'm pretty easy to get hold of on Instagram, Amrit wolfinch and uh, LinkedIn. Um, on basically all of it. I've got a sub stack. Um, I've got a YouTube channel which is actually quite useful if there's interesting things that you're, you're keen on in terms of how to build and scale businesses and franchising and home care and it's called Amrit the Walking CEO. I also have my own podcast which is called um, Walking, uh, with Wolf Inch and uh, in a book that is out on Amazon called Time to Thrive, the Home Care Revolution Evolution. And all the proceeds go to the Care Workers charity.

Speaker A: Amazing. Well, there's lots of, there's lots of avenues there I hope people will take, take you up on, on that contact. One of the things that I've taken from today as a bit of a theme is the value of time and money. Uh, or money and time might be a better way to put that value of money and time and recognizing uh, that as a leader as being a critical thing, um, amongst many other little pearls there that you've, you've shared with us. Thank you so much emorett and I wish you the very best of success. What's it, what's a takeaway for you from our conversation today?

Speaker B: Yeah, actually it's just giving me a moment to reflect and reflect on. So I do uh, um, or historically I've always done a kind of quarterly personal reflection uh, on life and just am I on right track and so on. And I probably haven't done that for about six months I think. And I think this has kind of given me a moment to just stop and think am I doing the things that I that, that make my heart happy in life and if I am great and if I'm not, how do I, how do I get my life back on that? And I think it's a really wonderful exercise for everyone to do. Um, but yeah, and so this gives me that moment to think, gosh, you know, I'm still really enjoying it all great.

Speaker A: Thanks Am. Wish you best in, in your business and in your family and uh, I hope you continue to see Wolf Inch grow uh, in the way that you want to. Thank you.

Speaker B: Thank you. Thank you Simon. Thanks for having me.